Starting on the path to Exceptional Horology with a $995 Watch

Just turned Sunday on the East Coast; so it's time to launch Sunday's video. In looking at some key features in Exceptonal Horology, we find elements repeated again and again. Those same features can be found in very affordable watches and this video shows how.

[@flyfishincrazy]

You are the true gentleman of You Tube horologists, and I enjoy your videos more than anyones! I always learn something!

[@watchartsci]

Hey Fly Fishen' Guy! Thanks man! If there's a topic you'd like to see covered, just let me know. Kindest regards, Bill

[@ThanhLai5]

An awesome watch to pay attention to! I'll definitely take a look at the watch in person when it comes out, and may buy one to start "the path to Exceptional Horology". The finishing on the movement alone makes it an interesting watch. Thank you sir!

[@watchartsci]

Hey Thanh! You might be able to get the same watch early and cheaper with this watch: www.touchofmodern.com/sales/limes-watches-caa0bb5d-e452-4f3d-b8cb-0fa40667ec25/limes-pharo-cartouche-manual-wind-u6282c-lh1-2 Haven't checked out the finish, but it looks very similar to the Tissot and it's less expensive. Check it out and let me know what you think. Kindest regards, Bill

[@BillMrWild]

An interesting video Bill, many thanks for sharing

[@watchartsci]

Hi Bill! Thanks, man! It's my pleasure Kindest regards, Bill

[@rmoraespinto]

I am a newcomer to your channel, even though I am a long timer watch enthusiast. Liked your approach and calm digression about the issues of this date. Thank you much. Subscribed!

[@watchartsci]

Welcome Ricardo, and if there's a topic you're interested in, please let me know. Kindest regards, Bill

[@terryteo1]

Bill, that was such an interesting video, thanks so much for sharing, great stuff, cheers 🥂

[@watchartsci]

It is my pleasure Terence! Kindest regards, Bill

[@donrogan2812]

Bill, long time viewer. Another good one! Just wanted to take a second to let you know how much I appreciate the channel. Keep them coming.

[@watchartsci]

Hey Don, thanks man, I appreciate it. Kindest regards, Bill

[@thomashendrick6711]

Wow-really appreciate your podcasts Bill. These watches in this category type like former pocket watch, are at the core of many watch fans like us; all though, just a few years ago it was common to see watch podcasts comments in the vein of why does a watch need a see through case back and a plethora of likewise negative comments. These watch qualities have all ways been the first and for most reason that I am an automatic watch fan to begin with....so, thanks so much for you second to none coverage of the, the core subject matter to real watch fanatics! 😄

[@watchartsci]

Hey Thomas, thanks man! Take care, Bill

[@crappyluxurypdx]

Another excellent video. For the under $1,000 price range, that Tissot is very desirable.

[@watchartsci]

Hi CW! Yes, that Tissot has the same frequency as a Roger Smith timepiece! Cheers, Bill

[@kennethtape3362]

Once again many thanks for a great vid, thanks Bill. I have to agree about that tissot for just over $900, very sweet, regardless of it's shortcomings from the more purist viewpoint. It would be a great watch to add to anyone's collection.

[@watchartsci]

Hey Kenneth, I never thought I'd recommend a Tissot, but with this new one with the Unitas 6498 and the size-matching case running at 2 1/2 Hz, I really like it. I hope that when it comes out in September, they are forthcoming about the movement rather than giving it some vague caliber implying it's an in-house movement. Cheers, Bill

[@davidgansert7542]

Great vid as usual! Wish I could 2 thumbs up on all your vids man!! Keep up the great work!

[@deanP.]

Well I just ordered this watch on Jomoshop. It will my 5th Tissot. The only one with a manual wind movement though. I just started collecting this year. My First Tissot is the Seastar 1000 my wife bought for me. It has the powermatic 80. I ordered two more tissot dress watches with the powermatic 80 that had been discontinued once I learned I could buy them new for sub $300. The other Tissot is a quartz I got cheap off of Amazon. It was my first swiss quartz watch. Thanks for your video.

[@watchartsci]

The Petite Seconde will let you adjust it to COSC accuracy using nothing more than a wooden toothpick, Dean. Take care, Bill

[@deanP.]

@@watchartsci hopefuly there is a video on KZbin to show me how

[@ResetToZero3210]

The B&M watch shows a very balanced, symmetric design I must say. All complications’ indicators seem to be harmonically placed on the dial. Yes, you can find it new for less than $1500 in the gray market. It is a beautiful watch despite the extra room in the case. Perhaps the very reason for the clean design.

[@nenadcubric2663]

Beautiful Watch

[@andrew_owens7680]

You were so kind to thank me for my German pronunciation, so I will give you some tips on French. BTW, as an American of course it's fine to pronounce them any way you want, any French or German is slaying American words! Baume et Mercier = Bome et Mayrseeay (rhymes with Home let mare see A) Lange und Sonne = Long a und Zone (actually the umlaut makes it a more closed o not found in English) I love this channel. Keep up the good work.

[@watchartsci]

Thanks again for the help, Andrew. 'Baume et Mercier' is one I keep getting wrong, and the 'mare-see-A' really helps! Lange und Sönne is another, but if I remember to have my pronunciation guide, I do better. These two gems will be added to that guide! Kindest regards, Bill

[@cedarcanoe]

All Unitas movements are large as they origine from old pocket watches. Hence also the very low 2.5 Herz. I don’t see what technological achievement is reached with filling up the entire case. Personally I am more impressed with 5Hz movements that still have long power reserve, and only need service after +10 years. Yes I am talking Grand Seiko.

[@jameswong6590]

Cedar Canoe I agree with you on this one.

[@Mister_Phafanapolis]

I don't get it either. Sounds like Bill is just flapping his gums and beating off to old movements. This "argument" (if you can call it that) doesn't make sense.

[@richardbonanno7236]

Great stuff. I have to say that Tissot is a whole lot of watch for the money. I'd buy it.

[@watchartsci]

I'm looking forward to September when the Tissot Heritage Automatique comes out! Cheers, Bill

[@kuglepen64]

High beat movements have smaller lighter oscillators, and hence are more susceptible to wear, movement, and vibrations due to their lesser momentum. They also need a bigger barrel because of the increased rate of impulse, to retain the running time. What they gain is averaging out the variations because there are more oscillations to average from. Slower rate movements with larger heavier oscillators are less susceptible to wear, movement, and vibrations, and when we are dealing with low volume hand-made pieces, that is an advantage over high beat movements because the slower larger oscillator is easier to adjust to perfection. That is why we see these two diverging philosophies. For exceptional horology movements slower is better, and for the factory produced movements high beat is better. Horses for courses.

[@watchartsci]

Thanks kuglepen64 ! That sounds reasonable! I enjoy the mass-produced ETA/Unitas 6498-1 running at the same rate as my H. Moser et Cie and Lange & Heyne Friedrich II-makes it feel special! Cheers, Bill

[@anthonyshillingford848]

Another great video jam packed with information. I think it would be fun to add the Tissot to a collection, regardless of the collectors financial status, just because...another point that comes to mind, based on your statement about larger movements (and bigger watches in general) is the (seeming) industry trend to move back to smaller pieces (37mm and lower). Maybe the elite players will buck the trend, or will they sacrifice the low vph (and ultra fine tolerances) to meet customer demand for smaller sized units? Anyway, thanks for the great content, can't wait for the next one.

[@watchartsci]

Hey Anthony thanks man! I've been thinking to seeing if I could find an inexpensive Tissot with a Unitas too! It would be fun! Kindest regards, Bill

[@shipmate3577]

I absolutely adore the UNITAS movement.

[@watchartsci]

Hi Shipmate ... which watches do you have with a Unitas? 6497 or 6498? I'm getting spectacular accuracy from mine...and even the Chinese clones of the Unitas! Cheers, Bill

[@jeff4423]

Just picked this up for 600 and love it.

[@watchartsci]

Congratulations Jeff! You got a good buy for $600 (€600 ?) I just noticed something-the movement is an Unitas/ETA 6498-1. The '-1' is a big deal to me because that's 2.5Hz ... like all the best watches! Kindest regards, Bill

[@jeff4423]

@@watchartsci jomashop

[@richardjones2609]

Fascinating!

[@watchartsci]

Richard, it's certainly one way to travel on the path of Exceptional Horology! Take care, Bill

[@richardjones2609]

@@watchartsci Below is a response to an inquiry I made to Muehle Glashuette regarding the accuracy of their enhanced SW movements. Based upon the data she shared (0 +/- 8 seconds per day) I do intend to purchase a Lunova Tag or Tag/Datum. (PLEASE don't tell my wife!) Hope the performance data she shared is accurate! "Thank you very much for your email and your interest in the watches of our Lunova family. The basic movement for our version of the SW 200 or SW 400 is the special/elabore quality with some special techniques especially for us. So it is equipped with a Glucydur balance and an Incabloc shock protection for example. A Mühle watch, however, has to meet the highest standards as regards quality and precision. For this reason we disassemble the raw mechanisms completely, examine them thoroughly and optimize them. To optimize a movement we ourselves manufacture many parts which are important for the accuracy of a mechanism. These include above all the patented woodpecker neck regulation and fitting balance cock. The mechanisms are carefully reassembled together with the parts finished by us, topped off by our both efficient and finely decorated Mühle rotor. After a mechanism has been completely assembled, the woodpecker neck regulation is used for exact setting of the rate. This regulation is carried out in six different positions, through which we simulate every possible wearing position on the wearer's wrist. During regulation, time which the mechanism gains or losses in all six positions is measured using a time balance and is recorded exactly. After this we set the mechanism so as to minimize the overall deviation: 0 up to +8 Sec/Day. The watches of the Lunova family are not COSC certificated."

[@MAC-ez2rq]

Hi Bill, I enjoy watching your videos. BTW, I have several watches (2 brand new Rolex Datejust (Rose gold) and a Green Submariner. My main point is, I am eyeing the Mido Baroncelli III Si (Chronometer). What do you think, do I have to get it as my final watch to wear when I get old. The Rolex will be transferred to my Son pretty soon. Please I need your expert advice.

[@watchartsci]

Hi Mac, normally I'm not a big fan of watches with ETA movements, and since you have Rolexes, I'd venture that you're not either. However, this particular watch is reasonably priced and I do like the dial. The other problem (for me at least) is the PVD gold coating. Were I seriously considering buying it, I'd wear it first...then try on a Patek Calatrava about the same size. You'll feel the quality difference, and if that's ok, then it's pretty much worth around the $5-600 price tag.Kindest regards, Bill

[@enginu.3996]

I have this watch and I love it very much,thank you. I look inside with a magnifying glass and it looks like hairspring metal. Is harirspring metal or silicone in this model?

[@watchartsci]

Great to hear Erwin. No need to spend a fortune for a great watch! Take care, Bill

[@alicansunal3487]

Peseux 7001 based movements are very nice too. Smaller diameters only beatrate is different at 3hz. Louis Erard had launched few of them and even added regulateur complication at a price of 800-900 usd. As for unitas 6498 i love it, very stable movement, some of them are running within chronometer specs, many brands used versions of Unitas and produced movements with their blueprints and as far as i know Unitas movements come in elaboré and top grades, would i buy Tissot Heritage at nearly a grand? Here they sell them at 700 usd.

[@xpdchief7698]

Just found this video Bill, great information. I only own 3 mechanical watches, all solid case backs. Probably just as well as I'm sure none of the movements have any decoration to speak of. I have more searching to do through our videos over the years.

[@watchartsci]

Does your Parmigiani have an exhibition window, Brian? Take care, Bill

[@xpdchief7698]

@@watchartsci Yes it does Bill, but unfortunately it's similar to the Tissot in your video as it only fills about 60% of the case. Best regards, Brian

[@xpdchief7698]

@@watchartsci I'm sorry Bill, not the Tissot, I meant the Baume & Mercier Clifton from your video "Starting on the path to Exceptional Horology with a $995 Watch #125". Best regards, Brian

[@watchartsci]

@@xpdchief7698 Brian, my Parmigiani Tonda Hemispheres has a small lopsided exhibition window, and it's almost like an iceberg ... most of the movement is hidden, but I can see most of the gear train. My tonneau-shaped Kalpa has a round movement, and the display window shows just about everything! Go figure. Take care, Bill

[@xpdchief7698]

@@watchartsci Two fantastic watches Bill. I'm going to start paying more attention to mechanical watches. I really like the look of the movement taking up most of the case. Even the movement in the Tissot you featured in that video looked great to me because it took up a great deal of the case. Regards, Brian

[@classlessbozo317]

Great idea for a series. Id be interested to know what the minimum you would have to pay for high horology.

[@watchartsci]

Hey James ... just wait 'til this Friday, and we'll see. (I also send you some tips as well...) Kindest regards, Bill

[@jtcj11]

I’ve been collecting and flipping for over 20 years. I’ve owned Omega and some other higher end watches. Even with my experience, I really enjoy your videos.

[@watchartsci]

Hey Jack, thanks man! I do my best. Kindest regards, Bill

[@mailmeabhilash]

Thank you sir. This is a great suggestion. Could be my first decent watch. Appreciate sharing of knowledge again. What do you think about "The Tissot Heritage 1948 Chronograph" ?

[@watchartsci]

I like the 1948 ok, especially the one with the metal band. The ETA 2894-2 is a good workhorse and the $1,450 price is reasonable. However, I like the new Tissot Heritage Petite Seconde for $500 less with the ETA/Unitas 6498-1 and the manual wind. (You'll rarely use the chronograph...) Cheers, Bill

[@mailmeabhilash]

WatchArtSci true sir. Maybe I will host get a rotary for chronograph and this for a nice watch. Thanks again.

[@watchartsci]

Good hunting! Let us know what you get. Kindest regards, Bill

[@gm3981]

I just bought my first manual wind unitas and never reached a stop when winding. Am I supposed to wind it until the clutch sounds?

[@watchartsci]

Hey GM. How many winds was recommended? Some, you cannot "overwind" and if you find the recommended wind-count, you can use it as a guide. My Bovet 1822 19Thirty Fleurier will let me wind it all day because it starts slipping the wind when it's complete. Were it not for a power reserve indicator, I'd never know when to start winding. Take care and be safe, Bill😷

[@manuel_winde]

I have a Laco Cuxhaven- an aesthetically similar watch to the Tissot, with the same movement. The dial looks enamel although I’m sure at the price it is not! (I paid $600 new which is a 50% discount). It’s an incredible watch for the money in my opinion- I am hoping to get a Reverso duo in the next few weeks too. Thanks for your videos 👍🏼

[@watchartsci]

Hey Fat Sam, think Lacos are among the hidden German gems. Let's get our shots and go outside, Bill😎

[@tardis9905]

Does the Cuxchaven ETA 6498-1 occupy a similar amount of case space as it does in the Tissot? Just curious; couldn't find any photos on Laco's website. I have a Augsburg; don't know how Laco does it, but, for this "lower end" model they have some amazingly comfortable leather straps.

[@watchartsci]

@@tardis9905 All ETA 6598-1 have the same dimensions; so they occupy the same amount of space in a case. Here's a link: www.eta.ch/en/our-products/mechanical-movements/mecaline/eta-mecaline-6498-1-unitas-unavailable. Take care, Bill

[@jamesg4670]

I was really trying to consolidate my collection and didnt wanna add any more “affordable” or non luxury pieces to my collection but let me tell you this watch right here is really hard to pass up considering dont have this style of watch or movement in my collection

[@watchartsci]

Well, James, you're not alone... Hang in there, Bill

[@my2l]

lol when I read the title I thought you found an fp journe for 995 on jomashop. haha

[@watchartsci]

If I found an FPJ for $995, I would have bought it! ....then I'd tell everyone else. Cheers, Bill

[@kingadjust5422]

@@watchartsci 10:43 so the tissot has the same movement as the h moser 😎

[@watchartsci]

@@kingadjust5422 No, the H. Moser, Roger Smith (and some others) have the same frequency (18,000 vph) as the 6498-1 movement in the Tissot. Take care, Bil

[@mattilatvala4164]

@@watchartsci Yes, at 10:42 you say Tissot "has the same movement that H Mosers have". I too was baffled.

[@watchartsci]

@@mattilatvala4164 The same Frequency ... as the HMC movements; not the same movements.

[@pjjmsn]

Interesting video. I have a few watches that beat at 18,000 vph and I find the sound of the ticking, when I put it to my ear, very relaxing and comforting. I prefer that sound over the other 2 higher beats. The 21k one sounds "normal" to me and the 28k sounds "fast" and a little "nervous" to me.

[@watchartsci]

Hi Morpho, the whole issue of frequency is still a bit of an enigma to me. The most common is 4Hz at 28,800 vph, but all of the tip top watches (Exceptional Horology) seem to use a lower frequency, and I'm still trying to work out why. My hearing is shot, but I'd dearly love to hear the ticking of my mechanical watches. Kindest regards, Bill

[@pjjmsn]

Thanks Bill, fascinating. What I would gather is that the 28,800 would have the potential to be more accurate, but would also put more stress on all moving parts. As you probably know, friction does not increase proportionally but exponentially with speed of movement. The other thing is that power reserve is proportionally limited in a faster beating movement, therefore you need a larger main-spring to get the same power reserve. In my mind, the 28,800 movements are less romantic than the lower beat rates, particularly the 18,000. Purely subjective. But there is no doubt (in my mind) that the sound of the lower beat rates inspire romanticism and introspection. I remember as a child my grandfather gave me a very cheap pocket watch whose ticking sound would fill a room at night. It was quite slow and mesmerizing. Perhaps that romantic aspect is why super-high-end horologists choose the lower beat rates? Sorry to hear about your hearing loss. You might try recording your watches to hear them. That would probably make a fascinating video. I would love to hear what your wonderful watches sound like. Your watch collection is fantastic!

[@westleygreenhalf2338]

I like this talk of the romance of a low beat watch.

[@pjjmsn]

Thanks Wesltey. Yes I believe that. I am a classical guitar player and romance is everything. And tempo and timing are both enormous factors in the poetry and romance on the instrument.

[@dgb6355]

Hi Bill, I watch your vids many times, they are so instructive. I will ask FP Journe about the speed/frequency of the watches, hopefully they would be able to answer. Will let you know. Many thanks to share your knowledge with us.

[@dgb6355]

Of course FP Journe, the sales rep in the shop, not the Man himself. I am not that important 😀.

[@watchartsci]

DG, if you get a response, let me know. I'm working on it from a different angle. Cheers Bill

[@washingtonfootballfanwgil8392]

This is very informative and something in my wheelhouse. I would never buy a watch as an investment but, in your opinion, will this Tissot ever go up in value?

[@watchartsci]

Hey RP, I doubt this Tissot will go up in value, but I might start snooping around for a wristwatch that's now available with a big Unitas movement. Just for an affordable horological artifact! Kindest regards, Bill

[@jeffreytaylor8871]

Mr. Sanders, what is your assessment of Shaumburg watches.

[@watchartsci]

Jeffrey, I have high hopes for Shaumburg. Their 'Blood on the Moon' watch is really quite stunning, and while the base movement is a Sellita SW11, the perpetual moon is a Shumburg-made complication. Let's keep an eye out to see where they're heading. Take care and be safe, Bill😷

[@cck1986]

i bought it from Jomashop last week, $390 only!

[@watchartsci]

How do you like it CK? Take care, Bill

[@jonnieinbangkok]

I would be curious as to the accuracy of this watch, for as you say, with a lower beat rate, 18k in this case, finer tolerances are necessary in the making of the movement and this being an "off the shelf" ETA movement. Also, I think Tissot saw your video, Bill, because they have removed the "Antimagnetique" script from the dial. I am considering buying this watch and the US price on Chrono24 is about $ 750.

[@watchartsci]

Even with ST 36 clones of the 6498, I've found good results, but is there any testing agency like COSC that ranks movements on their accuracy over time - using it as a measure of quality? Great question. Cheers, Bill🤔

[@jonnieinbangkok]

@@watchartsci Found it for $ 640 on Joma Shop.

[@ianmedium]

For the same price my Archer Sterling has the same movement but completely stripped down by master watch maker Al Jensky to perform higher than Chronometer timekeeping. It also has heat blued hands and a beautiful frosted solid sterling silver dial and German made case. All puts this all together with great care and attention to detail and in the five years I’ve owned mine it has never skipped a beat and maintains stated accuracy. Much rather have that than this mass manufactured watch.

[@watchartsci]

Hey Ian, thanks for that tip, but the Archer Sterling I saw was $1,200 Canadian. Am I looking in the wrong place? Send me a link-I like to hear about Canadian watches. Kindest regards, Bill

[@glenh4971]

Bill, I love this watch. I have a Chinese copy of this watch. I am thrilled with it. No way would I pay 995 for that Tissot. Its over-priced. I would like to have an authentic ETA 6497 movement though. Beautiful movements. A real keeper.

[@watchartsci]

Hi Glen, I've had Chinese 6497/8 (SP36xx), and they've worked fine. Here's a deal on a Tissot w/ the 6498 that looks like a good deal for a new watch. www.jomashop.com/tissot-heritage-watch-t119-405-16-037-00.html Take care and be safe, Bill😷

[@glenh4971]

@@watchartsci That's a fair deal. Hey, what about buying a real ETA 6497 movement and mounting it into an aftermarket case? I think that sounds like a good project.

[@diabew]

Hi Bill Great video I was wondering if I could ask you for advice I am looking at a potential purchase for my next watch, currently I own a JLC Reverso large duo face ref 3848420 which I love but I fell in love with the new Reverso tribute Calendar in solid gold with moon phase ref 3912420 which retails at 20700 pounds here in London but I am able to get a good discount for around 35% I also will have to sell my current Reverso to fund that. I would be great full for any advice. Kind regards

[@watchartsci]

Hey DK! First of all, love that JLC Duo ... the big one. Looks great, and I can see the dilemma you face in selling it to get another. What kind of trade-in could you get? If terrible, about the only thing I could suggest is Chrono24. One huge failure of sellers on Chrono24 is that they don't take the time to make decent photos of their watches. Get your Duo shined up like it's Date Night and take lots of pictures until you get every angle looking good! If asked why you're selling, just tell the truth .... but maybe leave out the part about the 35% discount. 😁 I'm not much of a wheeler-dealer when it comes to selling watches, and I'd ask lots about people about selling watches who have actually sold some. (I've used trade-in, and I can guarantee that's rarely the best way to get a good price.) Let us know how it turns out. Kindest regards, Bill

[@diabew]

Thank you bill The deal is I would have to pay 10 k and trade in my large duo face for the gold tribute calendar which is even bigger than my 47mm and comes at 49.5mm. The tribute moon is relatively new and not many of them on the second market. I could be completely foolish in what I'm doing as I could keep my current and fund a new watch to add to my collection but it's one of those things... I understand gold is much softer so not sure if I'd be wearing it and enjoying it as much but that white with moonphase oh Dear!

[@EnriqueGiliOrtiz]

Interesting watches and surprised finding a Tissot around F.P.Journe, Rolex and all the big names. Talking about Tissot, Mr.Sanders, what do you think of Tissot Janeiro (reference nº T66.1.428.52 Z 199)? Best regards.

[@watchartsci]

Hi Enrique, all I know about that Tissot is that it looks a lot like my Bovet Monorattrapante from the 1940s. Now here's an interesting watch from Lines that I may go hunting for: www.touchofmodern.com/sales/limes-watches-caa0bb5d-e452-4f3d-b8cb-0fa40667ec25/limes-pharo-cartouche-manual-wind-u6282c-lh1-2 . Kindest regards, Bill (Not Dr. or Mr. S.)😉

[@EnriqueGiliOrtiz]

Alright, Bill, haha. Nice looking watch, by the way. All the best there!

[@flitzanis]

I am looking for a Tissot Janeiro. If you any for sale, plase let me know :)

[@watchartsci]

Those are very hard to find. They look a lot like my Bovet Monorattrapante, but like the Janerio the Monorattrapante is hard to find too. Lots have been sold, but none seem to be available at the moment. Good hunting! Bill

[@EnriqueGiliOrtiz]

Flitzanis, you can write me here: [e-mail]

[@richardbonanno7236]

Check out the Laco Cuxhaven. Same movement as the Tissot. Great value for the money.

[@watchartsci]

Hey Richard, you're right. The Laco Cuxhaven is a very cool watch and well-priced with the high-end, 2.5Hz 6498...which is my favorite. Kindest regards, Bill

[@perosa99]

Very instructive as always. When you label a watch as HH you seem to have very clear the reasons why. The concept still scapes me, I need to be better informed. Do you have some minimal criteria to call a watch HH? And then exceptional.... is there a degree of subjectivity in it in your opinion? Greetings and thank you Bill for another remarkable episode

[@watchartsci]

Pedro Sandoval HH is a marketing term that we collectors can refine for our own , but basically it’s a watch made with a fine finishing and excellent movements... usually by the manufacturer who makes the watch. Ideas for improvement? Cheers Bill 👨‍🎨

[@perosa99]

WatchArtSci the answer is very helpful. So you essentially base it on the two main criteria of finish and movement quality. To me, the more specific and granular the assessment the easier and more objective it would be. However, thar might not be practical for the every day consumer or collector. The grey zone in between categories could be a double edge sward, paying too much for a watch or perhaps finding a higher quality piece for the money. Thank you again for the great content. Maybe an episode dedicated to horological literature and resources would also be very helpful (books, videos, channels, online, service experts for vintage HH, etc).

[@giangvu7902]

Lower VPH also equates to longer time in between service intervals and more power reserve. ETA's Powermatic 80 movements are able to achieve 80 hours power reserve just by slowing down the VPH to 6Hz and still achieve incredible accuracy. I think the manufacturing process are much better nowadays and tighter tolerances are able to be achieved. There has never been a better time for watchmaking.

[@watchartsci]

Yes indeed Giang Vu-lots of advantages to a 3 and 2.5Hz watch.Kindest regards, Bill

[@Mister_Phafanapolis]

How can you go on for 17 minutes about the topic of vibration speeds without mention the trade off of power reserve? That's a talent.

[@watchartsci]

@@Mister_Phafanapolis I wanted to leave you something to inform us about. So let's hear you talent? Thanks, Bill

[@Mister_Phafanapolis]

@@watchartsci You seem to know a lot about these high end movements so I wanted to hear you speak on the topic of beat rate vs. power reserve vs. service intervals. Instead your argument was something caveman-like like "Big movement fill case. Make watch good." I was expecting some more nuance and secret sauce sprinkled in.

[@watchartsci]

@@Mister_Phafanapolis I hope I didn't sound snarky, but I really hope this can be a forum where we can discuss rather than have a sole source of information. I was inviting you to fill in what you seem to know about. There's not much I can say other than a lower frequency will result in both a longer charge and more time between services. However, what I was really focusing on was what was the point that the very best watchmakers like to use 2.5 Hz, while the best selling and most popular mechanical watches use 4Hz. If you can add anything, I would welcome it. Thanks, Bill

[@donaldduck7628]

Wonderful presentation. Thanks ever so much. I do have one tiny, technicality for you. Quartz movements have a crystal that indeed vibrates, from which the system timing is set. The mechanical watches do not actually vibrate. In fact the effect of vibration, has a deleterious effect upon the mechanical watch. Mechanical watches actually cycle. Most properly it should be termed as cycles per second, or cps. I am curious if the industry has adopted the "vibration" verbiage, or is this just here that the term of vibration is used?

[@thehealer74]

Good Sir, The state of vibration, oscillation, and quivering are all of the same meaning. vibrating : the state of being vibrated or in vibratory motion: such as : oscillation or a quivering or trembling motion : quiver.

[@donaldduck7628]

Thank you for your contribution here sir. The only thing is that this is titled as the "WatchArtSci" which implies a more strict declaration of intent and interpretation. While in lose terms you are quite correct. The scientific terms are not as ambiguous in their use in English. Watches neither quiver or tremble. The quartz revolution has had such an impact on this industry, that cross lingual applications of "similar" terms, are actually not intrinsically correct. Crystals do vibrate in their application as a resonant effect. Watch mechanisms of the mechanical type are a derivation of the principal of the pendulum. It is in it's interpretation, a cylindrical pendulum, with the spring acting as the gravitational component for a free acting pendulum. Hence the name of the circular piece in the watch as a "balance". Considering the origins and period of the development of the watch mechanism, there was no crystalline vibratory concepts at the time. The balance swings to the extent that the spring allows, and forces the return of the balance wheel to the opposite direction. This is not vibratory motion, but rather a swinging motion which is calculated with angular momentum, just as in its pendulum derivative. Vibrations, as in quartz crystals are a resonance effect, which is a characteristic of its rigid lattice structure. Pendulums and the balance wheels are traversing an arc motion, and not a vibration which is much like a linear traverse, as are the other terms you point out, such as quivering or trembling. An oscillation is an unspecified, periodic motion, and can be applied without conveying any specific type of motion. It is therefore, similar but less descriptive in this application. Oscillation refers to the time domain characteristic of any motion only. It does not describe, any specific type of motion.

[@thehealer74]

Donald Duck Many Thanks for the informative/educational reply my good Sir. I really appreciate it.

[@fkurcik]

That Tissot reminds me of the Longines Heritage 1945, but that one costs 2 grand. I think this Tissot will have a sillicone hairspring of the same type as used in Omega co-axial escapement. That is most likely the reason why they consider this model anti-magnetic.

[@watchartsci]

Frantise, you bring up an excellent point, but this particular Tissot is not antimagnetic beyond what every other mechanical watch has. To add antimagnetic they could indeed add silicone, but the extent to which they do that, seems they're trying to turn a traditional mechanical watch into a Smart Watch little by little - I hope they don't. Kindest regards, Bill

[@erickruse4679]

I'm really interested in this watch. Speaking of movement accuracy, I already have a couple of Tissot's. One is a ETA C07.811 at 21,600, and the other is a C01.211. The C01 at 21,600 as well. I don't know what to make of it, but the C01 is the worst accuracy of any automatic I've ever had in my life, fast by 15 seconds a day. I stopped wearing that within 30 days and it sits in a box because nobody wants to regulate it. The C07 was set to the atomic clock several months ago and is currently a grand total of 4 seconds off, which is nothing I've ever witnessed in a mechanical before. I've worn that every day, all day since I got it.

[@watchartsci]

That's half good new Eric. Have you tried adjusting the timing on the C01? You can do it with a wooden toothpick. Also, you might have a magnetization problem ... try de-magging it. Take care, Bill

[@westleygreenhalf2338]

Bill, what do you think would be the maximum fill? Do you think 91.5% would be possible?

[@watchartsci]

Hi Westley, the most I've seen on my own watches is 85% on my Bovet 1822 19Thirty Fleurier, but without sacrificing case-integrity it could be higher. Piaget's Altiplano Ultimate Concept seems to meld the case and movement to the movement plate. (See monochrome-watches.com/piaget-altiplano-ultimate-concept-world-thinnest-mechanical-watch-ever-review/ ) Kindest regards, Bill

[@westleygreenhalf2338]

Thanks Bill. It seems Dornblüth gets it up to 89% with the Q-2010 series, 34.3mm in a 38.5mm case. I shall have a look at the Piaget out of interest. @@watchartsci

[@watchartsci]

The Piaget's movement's base plate is the case itself. They just build the movement and case as one. Cheers, Bill

[@westleygreenhalf2338]

Yes. But, it perhaps shows that a case could be very finely fitted around a movement. Although, I am not sure how stable that Piaget would be. @@watchartsci

[@watchartsci]

Hi Westley, yes, that's a good point and I have wondered myself. No one would want a watch that they were afraid to 'bump.' Cautiously..., Bill

[@playboypaul1]

Which watch would you say is the better buy between the tissot gentlemen and the heritage petite seconde?

[@watchartsci]

That's a tough one Paul; really a matter of taste! Your's not mine! What "feels" right to you? Take care and be safe, Bill😷

[@playboypaul1]

@@watchartsci well would or could you have made the video with the gentleman instead of the petite

[@watchartsci]

@@playboypaul1 Time to learn something new! What is the movement in the Petite? What is the movement in the gentlemen. Now, you tell me. Take care and be safe, Bill

[@playboypaul1]

@@watchartsci well the petite has the nicer movement that's better decorated and the powermatic has the 80 hr reserve. But when you get into high horology i find it's more about the movement and case finishing. So I'll say the heritage petite would be a better buy for nly a couple hundred more than the powermatic. I was looking to buy the powermatic till I saw your video and the heritage petite. I think I got my answer. Keep the awesome videos coming

[@knightshadow1894]

Good afternoon, I frequently see the INVICTA watch everywhere (TV, mall, internet shop, etc) , can you comment on the true value of these watches?

[@watchartsci]

Knight Shadow, not much in Invicta that most collectors find interesting or valuable. However, you can find them just about everywhere at some very cheap prices. If you go online and type in 'Invicta Forum' you can find others who like Invictas. Kindest regards, Bill

[@knightshadow1894]

Thank you for taking the time to answer my question. Mike

[@JohnDoe-ub8fq]

In 1929-1930, Tissot introduced the first anti-magnetic wristwatch, which came to be known as the Tissot Antimagnetique. So this one is an anniversary model, maybe?

[@watchartsci]

You know your watches, John! This is one of the most fun FUBARs recently by a watch company. When the watch was first reviewed, it was touted as the Tissot Antimagnetique Heritage. The label, 'Tissot Antimagnetique' was printed on the dial. (www.ablogtowatch.com/tissot-antimagnetique-heritage-watch/) There was only one problem: it wasn't anti-magnetic. So, Tissot had to scramble around and ended up renaming it "Petite Seconde," without having to change anything other than removing the word "Antimagnetique." from the dial. I would love to get my mitts on one of those review copies of the watch that still reads, "Tissot Antimagnetique." Take care, Bill

[@JohnDoe-ub8fq]

@@watchartsci Get vid. Had to go to watchbase and see what other watches were using that movement. Maybe that Antimagnetique, will become a collectors item...!!!

[@watchartsci]

Hey John, indeed they would be a rare bird to have. I saw the Tissot Petite Seconde for sale on Touch of Modern for $499 ... about 1/2 the original MSRP... but it did not have the Antimagnetique label. Take care, Bill

[@enginu.3996]

ı bought tissot ı will recieve it next wednesday thank you for advise.

[@watchartsci]

Engin, let me know how you like it! I'm often tempted to get a Heritage Petite Seconde from Jomashop... just because. Take care, Bill

[@rarts2000]

George smith, just kidding. great video

[@sandydenny4ever164]

Don't get me started on Tissot hand wounds. First I couldn't change the time, then it corroded completely off. All in the space of 8 months.

[@watchartsci]

Oh no! We do know that Tissot is the poorer sibling of Omega, but that sounds awful! Hope this new one with the Unitas is better. Hang in there man, Bill

[@sandydenny4ever164]

It was the unitas 6497, so I don't hold out much hope.

[@watchartsci]

sandydenny4ever Maybe some of that Tissot finishing will abate corrosion and rust👨‍🎨

[@sandydenny4ever164]

Not enough to open my wallet that's for sure

[@BillMrWild]

With ref. to Donald Duck, also known as Beats per second.. bps..

[@jeff4423]

They have removed the antimagnetic label

[@watchartsci]

Hi Jeff! Oh no! It's was more fun with the 'Antimagnetique" label ... even though it's not antimagnetic. After all, it was an homage to the watch! Thanks for that catch! Cheers, Bill

[@springinfialta106]

This wasn't one of your best. The only two things I got from this are: higher "tolerations" allow higher end watches to retain accuracy at lower beat rates, and bigger movements allow higher end watches to "do more". Also, why would I buy a watch that is essentially lying to me by claiming to be anti-magnetic when it isn't? Maybe the watch is based on a classic watch, but if so it should retain or expand upon the qualities of the original. Lowering the beat rate is an easy way to increase power reserve. I believe that Hamilton is doing this in some of their newer field watches. I believe that it also helps with the longevity of the watch and increasing the time between servicing.

[@watchartsci]

Naming a watch 'antimagnique' when it's not is more irony than a lie. As long as I know what movement a watch has, I'm good with it. There's more to the lower beat rate that I need to learn more about, but when I see the very top watches using that rate, I want to know why. As for movement size, I don't expect that every single model has a unique movement, but on the other hand, stuffing in a tiny movement in a big watch ignores the opportunities available with a tad more movement real estate. So, SpringInFlata...help me out. What would be a good topic to cover? Cheers, Bill

[@springinfialta106]

If the Tissot were less "irony" then it would be more anti-magnetic. ;-) As far as other topics to cover I think it would be interesting to compare a truly standard ETA movement like the 2824 with one or more modified versions, e.g. the ETA used in a Hamilton, Tissot, etc. In what way are these movements modified? Do they use different materials? Are they more finely polished or decorated? Are they more finely regulated? Is there a point at which an ETA is so highly modified that it counts as high horology? Or is it forever doomed to "Standard Horology" status? It would also be interesting to compare a couple of High Horology watch movements and see how these in-house movements use different materials/techniques/architectures to solve the same problems. I wonder how different the movements in a Patek are from those of a Vacheron for watches that just show time, or maybe time and date. Are they truly reinventing the wheel or do they make just slight modifications to a standard architecture? Thanks for all your content. I've learned a lot from your videos. My current collection ranges from Substandard Horology (Timex Quartz) through Standard Horology (Hamilton Khaki & Intramatic) up to Kinda-Sorta High Horology (Frederique Constant in-house Moonphase). But one day I'm gonna pull the trigger on a Rolex or maybe one of those RGM divers your channel led me to.

[@Rog5446]

Why say 18,000 vibrations per hour, when 5 beats per second is easier to comprehend?

[@watchartsci]

Good question Rog. I don't know why. Take care, Bill

[@fredo1070]

Hi beat movements only became fashionable after the quartz crisis. Classic Rolex ran at 19,800 bph, their models of the 1940s ran at 18,000 bph. Rolex 3000 series 28,000 bph movement for their main models was introduced in 1977.

[@watchartsci]

Hi fredo1070 , thanks for that bit of history. I did not know that and am grateful you shared. Kindest regards, Bill

[@Norman-mn7gp]

The others watches: -Tutima Patria. -Laco Bremerhaven navy -Archimede -Stowa marine 36 -Ferro Traditum -Sinn 6200 WG MEISTERBUND I

[@watchartsci]

Hey Norman those are ideas for some good watches that may be overlooked ... but I think you're right. Happy New Year, Bill

[@yourviewer6974]

Hi Bill, I disagree with your ‘lo beat’ interpretations. And you’ve said that in many of your vides. Imho, it is not a factor or a sign that a good watch should’ve probably had a lo beat movement. Some hi beat movements watch collectors will be probably supporting me on this. Let’s go back to the era before 1950, the traditional watch movements were considered as 5 beat (18,000 bph), 5.5 beat and 6 beat only. Then in the late 50, most swiss watchmakers developed 8 beat (28,800 bph). The competitions had led to much more stress on the gears, jewels, and lubrication inside the movement. And in the late 60, 8 beat had been considered as the compromised between accuracy vs durability. But then GP (gyromatic), Seiko (hi beat) and zenith (el primero) could developed 10 beat movements which was started in 1966. And as we know, 1960 was also the started era of the quartz movements that was almost destroyed the mechanical movements industry entirely. Imho, from those events, the acceptance level of mechanical watches to the market was in the lowest point. That was why they didn't intend to compete in hi beat movements anymore, people see that the future will only be in the hand of the betterment hi accuracy quartz movement. The king itself, seiko, which had many innovations ( seiko 5 and GS were born) in that era could still developed their quartz, mechanical, and automatic movements all together. To this date, because of the better technologies (greater machining, materials, lubricants) the watchmakers will be able to compete again. I believed that the existence of the silicon parts in the modern days watch movements should be more than enough to get the watchmakers competing again in hi beat movements. But apparently they don't.. Or because they know in the past 2 decades their customers were 'happy enough' so they just don't care.. The lo beat rate in those 'high horololgy' movements were/are just an easy plot.. Doing it again like in the era before 50.. Is a Breguet Classic Chronometrie 7727 with an escapement that has 10 hz (72,000bph) good enough? Nope, not even close to the accuracy of a tissot quartz movement which has +- 12 sec/year and priced at 350 usd in 2012. As a customer, we want to see more improvements and innovations especially in the accuracy aspect because a watch tells time.. :D

[@watchartsci]

Hi YV! Thanks for the informative and well-thought out comment. In a nutshell, I've come to like and appreciate slo-beats over hi-beats because all of the exceptional watchmakers like Roger Smith, F.P. Journe, Michel Parmigiani, Kari Voutilainen, Laurent Ferrier, Philippe Dufour, Marco Lang and the master watchmakers at Dimier (Bovet) and Precision Engineering (H. Moser et Cie) use the lower beats on their best watches. So far, I've heard nothing but banal top-of-the-head "reasons" as to why this is the case (my own included), and have yet to come up a good response. A friend who's a master watchmaker (and former Grand Prix judge) is helping me, but he's as baffled as am I. Next month, I'll be talking with Kari Voutilainen and plan to ask him and will pass on what I learn. However, I believe the answer lies in craftsmanship and not in technology. In the meantime, check out the pre-selected watches at the Grand Prix d’Horlogerie de Genève. Only a few run at 4Hz or greater. Cheers, Bill

[@marktuyet]

Want horology ? Pocket Watches !

[@watchartsci]

How about a pocket watch movement in a wristwatch? 6498 ring a bell? Cheers, Bill

[@westleygreenhalf2338]

This Tissot watch is awkward as being essentially a reissue of a vintage watch that had antimagnetic qualities, it is on the large side, so loses any vintage charm it might have had and it isn't particularly antimagnetic.

[@watchartsci]

Hi Westley. It has context and irony. I suppose a watch labeled 'antimagnetique' should be antimagnetic ... but to offer it up as "not-exactly-antimagnetic" (around 64 Gauss) at the outset bursts any kind of pretense and I find that ironic. But here's the real plum in the watch, 64 Gauss is actually more antimagnetic than the original! (My bad... should have mentioned that fact in the video....). We're used to Milgauss and way beyond a 1000 gauss even, but the lesson in this watch is that it reminds us that antimagnetic has a history when 64 gauss wasn't so bad. The path to exceptional horology is that it is running under the standard 4Hz and is perhaps on a better track than some of the newer and more popular watches with ETAs disguised as something else but running at 4Hz. Cheers, Bill

[@westleygreenhalf2338]

Fair points and yes, the lower beat rate is pleasant.

[@charlesingham7757]

VPH does not equate to accuracy

[@watchartsci]

Charles Ingham Definitely is an important part of accuracy but only part of the story.

[@charlesingham7757]

WatchArtSci often leading manufactures prefer a slower beat rate as better shows the movement of the balance or for historical reasons. Accuracy suggests an ability to hold an accurate time, which is not the same as looking to impart a sweeping seconds hand, especially when using a sub seconds, right?

[@watchartsci]

Charles Ingham Most leading models in sales such as Rolex, use 4hz. I need to learn more as why the watches of Exceptional Horology use slower speeds.

[@charlesingham7757]

WatchArtSci maybe its a sports watch vs dress watch thing. Maybe measuring fractions of a second is less important when you're dressed up for a night out...

[@watchartsci]

Charles Ingham Good points about usage- sports watches need split-second precision...while with dating you may use the sunrise 🌅 as accurate enough to ensure things have gone well...

[@iimaniDAVID]

A $995 Tissot w/ a display case back is actually silly. The movement is hideous w/ massive poorly finished plates and screws that should all be hidden. I would advise to just save a bit longer and start w/ a better piece.

[@anthonyshillingford848]

iimaniDAVID - I think you've missed the point here. The difference for many people in the cost of the Tissot vs (for example) an F.P. Journe is tremendous, and not a case of "save a little longer". I would also suggest that your evaluation of the Tissot is uninformed, at the price point, the entire watch is not trying to compete with the "big boys", it's intent is give a flavour of what the higher end provides. In that regard, it hits the nail on the head.

[@iimaniDAVID]

I maintain that a display case back to show a hideous poorly finished movement is pointless and plays the uniformed for fools. It doesn't have to be a "big boy" you're saving for. But saving a bit longer for something that makes a little more sense is better. Remember, the pre-owned market is accessible. Why buy trash?

[@muteehall]

I enjoy my automatic and my quartz watches but horology is the biggest scam known to man. Creating something so complex just to do the same thing as any cheaper watch, which is tell time, date, etc...I get it rich people need something to waste their money own so there’s no hate here...

[@watchartsci]

Muteehall, to no small degree, you are right but when we follow a true path from simple to constant force, it goes into another realm. The Tissot with a 2.5Hz frequency and a nice size balance can be expanded to something that attempts to keep the movement constant so that the time is more accurate. Scam or not, it can be fascinating in enough ways to keep us exploring. Take care and be safe, Bill 😷

[@muteehall]

@@watchartsci I actually agree with you but i just had to play devil advocate just to see what the responses would be..thanks for the feed back

[@watchartsci]

@@muteehall As Homer would say to Bart, "Why you little..." 😉 Take care and be safe, Bill😷

[@muteehall]

😂😂 have a good one and keep up the good content