#106

Don't Miss the Watch ArtSci Instagram images at:
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How to care for your watches, enjoy them and to navigate through the maze of buying watches.

[@albundy3929]

why isn't this one of the top subscribed watch channels? i've been watching youtube for years consuming watch content and just found Bill/WAS.

[@20thcenturyboy85]

Bill, a sincere "THANK YOU" for all your fine videos.

[@watchartsci]

Hey 20th Century, thanks man! Kindest regards, Bill

[@alienhatz3265]

coming from watching paul pluta videos, it's nice to see a very pleasant individual :D

[@watchartsci]

Well, Archie (or Paul Pluta) and I live on different planets...our inhabitants seem to be alien to one another...but some seem to tolerate us both! Kindest regards, Bill

[@chrisauge6802]

Thanks for the video... I always learn a lot from you!

[@watchartsci]

Hey Chris thanks man! Cheers, Bill

[@CWO4D]

Bill, I appreciate your commentary and insight about watches...Your content is informative and valuable...please keep up the great content...

[@watchartsci]

Hey CWO4D! Thanks man! Glad to have you around to keep me honest! Cheers, Bill

[@dcerise1974]

Thanks a lot for your knowledge and words of wisdom. It is a true pleasure to watch your videos.... excellent info!

[@watchartsci]

Hey Cap'n Dave, thanks man! Take care, Bill

[@nelsonchong7918]

Thanks for sharing your wealth of knowledge. Will always remember your wise advice. : )

[@watchartsci]

Thanks Nelson. Kindest regards, Bill

[@KevG1962]

Great tips Bill. Particularly liked the explanation of tiers / levels of horology 👍

[@watchartsci]

Hey Kev, thanks man! The tiers are for determining the value of a watch and what a collector should expect to pay. Snobs shouldn't use the tiers; they tend to miss the point and the horological values of the watches! Kindest regards, Bill

[@Youcantleavethisempty01]

Another very helpful video, Bill. I just purchased my first vintage manual-winding watch. It's a charming 35mm Eska. I can't find a photo of this model anywhere on the internet and history about the brand is scarce. I bought it from a small shop in London. They were flexible on the price (under $500) and sold me a NOS recently serviced beautiful little watch. I'm so happy with it. I just might make a video about this one as the watch community might like to see this forgotten watch in 1950s Swiss watch history.

[@watchartsci]

Hey Can't Leave! Sounds like you got a great little pre-quartz mechanical! It passed the most important test- you love it! Congratulations! Kindest regards, Bill

[@mell3109]

Great vid Bill. I saw a video from 5 years ago. Your style has certainly changed 😊

[@jaysikes4256]

So glad you mentioned reading books to learn more. Too many times, people rely on YT watch vids and watch blogs for info, when in reality, quite often, there is veiled shilling going on. People think a watch is great because of a commercial disguised as "helpful" vid or article.

[@watchartsci]

Hey Jay, I'm glad there are people who still appreciate books. (So is Ryan Schmidt!) The thing I like about Ryan's book is that he goes through all of the elements of the movement and what makes a watch tick. (....I couldn't help myself...) You are right about the "mob mind set" that cite commercials as evidence that their watches are "superior." Kindest regards, Bill

[@thomashendrick6711]

Wow-just awesome, so many questions answered, so concisely. Thank you very much Bill.

[@watchartsci]

Glad it was helpful Thomas, and if you've got more questions, I'll be glad to answer them! Take care, Bill

[@1115asmara]

Bill, when it comes to watches, you make me look like I know what I'm talking about. I enjoy your shows. Thanks. Be safe.

[@watchartsci]

Well Asmara, I bet you do know what you're talking about! Take care, Bill

[@jorgem8384]

Love your content Bill!

[@watchartsci]

Hey Jorge, thanks man! Take care and stay safe, Bill😷

[@johannbauermeister3916]

Thanks very much for the tips, Proffersori!

[@watchartsci]

My Pleasure Johann! Cheers, Bill

[@paulbrady8107]

Hi Bill sir ,an excellent class on collecting for beginners and those of us not to proud to say we are still in the kindergarten of our hobby.great information imparted expertly just around great .Thanks for looking out for us sir.👍

[@watchartsci]

Hey Paul, thanks man! We may all be in kindergarten collecting watches; we're just not aware of it! Cheers, Bill

[@thehealer74]

A very nice 👍🏻 video Professor 👨‍🏫 you are always a source of a good education 🙏🏻✨

[@watchartsci]

Hey Jaber, thanks man! You know I value any tips on watch collection you can send my way. Cheers, Bill

[@Steve-fx6ej]

Love the VC 1921 Bill, interesting to see that they came out with a 36mm version last year

[@watchartsci]

Hey Stephen, thanks man! They raised the price of the one I have from $32k to $35k, but you can still see that Jomashop is selling them for $25k. Must have been left over from the Asian crisis when the Chinese government cracked down of watch-bribe corruptions. Kindest regards, Bill

[@deancollins8229]

Excellent advise, thanks Bill .

[@watchartsci]

Great Dean, I'm glad it was helpful! Kindest regards, Bill

[@Sanjuro313]

Am new to this, And this video was insightful, thanks!

[@watchartsci]

Glad it was helpful, Faisal! Take care, Bill

[@algorithm007ify]

Great video and advice Bill. I particularly liked your advice on winding unused watches once in a while (as opposed to winding it every day or not at all). My recommendations are to not rush into purchases....Don't follow trends or brand marketing/perception without doing research (i.e., don't just focus on well known brands like Rolex and Omega, there are better brands out there)..Also, watch informative channels like WatchArtSci.

[@watchartsci]

Hey algorithm007ify, thanks man! Your point about 1) not rushing, and 2) not following trends is excellent and a perfect way to save money and yet get an outstanding watch. Of course, your last tip is the best ..... Cheers, Bill

[@galja6889]

Great video as always !Always learn something from your videos. To determine value i have great luck Using the SOLD section on Ebay,weather you eventually purchase from ebay or not.

[@watchartsci]

Galja, thanks man, I'm glad it helped. Using the SOLD section on Ebay is a great idea: it give you a realistic view of what you can expect to buy / sell a watch for. Chrono24 has a "watch evaluation" app that you can use to determine the value of your watch. It's pretty rough but can provide a ballpark figure: www.chrono24.com/info/valuation.htm . Kindest regards, Bill

[@Andrewolf79]

Thanks gr8 video and I love the diagram of the watch families it's spot on..

[@watchartsci]

My pleasure Andrea! What kind of watches do you like collecting? Kindest regards, Bill

[@Andrewolf79]

well i have 2 collections one very basic orientate under the 1000K that i use with little regard for when i do DIY some exstream sport or a trip to some God Forsaken Country, than i have another that starts at 2k up to what ever i can afford. The 2K collection is the one that evolves with my taste, love and knowledge for horology. I love more and more the vintage 1930's to 1950's art deco style watches and i have this obsession with those wrist peaces who changed or redefine what could be done mechanically.. any innovation in horology is something that gets my interest and admiration. How some houses hide there pushers under the lugs, basculating platforms, twisted dials, mechanical alarms, GMT complications, innovating materials or ways to tell the time. Got a few rules as well to keep me at bay from spending money not on something really worth the £££... I would never buy 2 watches of the same brand and i have a pandora box with 10 places so no more than 10 high end watches at any time. I see to many people with so much money that they buy watches just because they can witout really understanding what a watch is or how it should represent us, our curiosity, our respect in it craftsmanship and the knowledge, passion, time that went in to create such small marvel. And i have to say i Admire your Bovet eye catching, beautifully finished and the colours they just pop like the sparkle of a diamond, so i started to look in to it!!!

[@watchartsci]

Hi Andrea, if you are thinking of a Bovet 19Thirty, there are two models: ones like mine called the "Fleurier" and ones with the conventional lugs, called the "Dimier." I was talked out of the 'Dimier" and got the 19Thirty with the Bow & Crown on the top and the Bar Lug on the bottom-the 'Fleurier" version. I am still grateful that I was encouraged to get the Fleurier! It is unique and fits perfectly. Kindest regards, Bill

[@losfont5674]

Great tips. First time hearing about the Horology Tier. I’m happy but at the same time surprised that out of my five watches only one is considered High Horology and the other four Strong Tiered 🤷🏻‍♂️. Just ordered the book through Amazon and requested to join your FB group. Thanks again for the great content. I really enjoy learning from your videos. Louis Font

[@watchartsci]

Hey Los Font! Glad to hear you like it. Here's an interesting watch you might like by Vacheron Constantin- the Quai de l'Ile. It's high horology, Poinçon de Genève, and has the exact same movement as the more expensive Overseas. Check it out: www.chrono24.com/vacheronconstantin/vacheron-constantin-vacheron-constantin-quai-de-lile-automatic-mens-watch-41-mm---4500s000a-b196--id9815441.htm . Take care and be safe, Bill 😷

[@oldvole]

Hi Bill, This is the second of your videos I've watched, and really enjoyed it. I'm not really a collector, though I love wristwatches. It would be borderline immoral of me, on my income, to spend the kind of money that high horology demands (I'd rater take my family on holiday) but it's still good to hear about stuff from one so well informed.

[@watchartsci]

Hey Old Vole, we're all over the moral border ... join us in our irresponsible horological hobby! Cheers, Bill

[@oldvole]

@@watchartsci I daren't. She'd kill me!!

[@eddiedevonrex2308]

Thanks Bill, happy Christmas and new year, the 2 F.P.J that u have look fantastic, my favorite of your collection is the “twisted” vacheron u have even the buckle matches the shape of the bezel, and u came up with a mathematical formula for the watch! what is on your wish list now?

[@watchartsci]

Hey Ajeet, thanks man and a Merry Christmas and Happy New Year to you too! My wish list is complicated, but I hope to have two very fun unboxings at the beginning of 2018! More importantly, I start my watchmaking classes then. Cheers, Bill

[@jameswong6590]

I didn't know about High Horology forum. I am joining the group now.

[@watchartsci]

Welcome! There's a pretty broad range there of both watches and opinions about watches! Cheers, Bill

[@henrychinaski846]

Very well done. Thanks! Greets from Germany

[@watchartsci]

Danke Henry. Herzliche Grüße, Bill

[@cesarrocha3138]

Another great content. I wonder what do you think about Czapek? Especially the Antartique collection.

[@watchartsci]

Czapek is a well-priced watch for what you get, Cesar. Take care, Bill

[@yetidh9]

Thank you for the video. As a relative newcomer to the watch world, it's interesting to me how the value of 'pre-owned' watches has little to do with their horological value. For example you can pick up Moser Mayu/Endeavour for not much more than a used Submariner of the same age.

[@watchartsci]

Yes Yetidh9, if you 'buy the watch' and not the 're-sale value' you can get better watches for better deals. If you negotiate; you can do even better. Here's a new video that may be useful to new collectors I recently did: kzbin.info/www/bejne/j3mqoqyngMqpaMU . (Check out shopworn.com and look for H. Moser. Knock off between 15-20% of the asking price, and that's what you can negotiate for-brand new with all the trimmings.) Good hunting! Bill

[@h111551]

As a matter of personal taste loved the Habring, Gerber and Sarpanava SUF diver. Gerber is one of the least known of the great AHCI personages. He has been a behind the scenes consultant to an amazing number of brands and it would be interesting to see a list of all of his unattributed engagements. Each of the SUF 52 watch limited editions had a different colorway (I think there were 4 colorways total). The SUF was the dive watch for people who hate the look of traditional divers. The bezel is nothing short of brilliant sculptural or jewelry design which is a Sarpanava family legacy as his grandfather was a famous Finnish jewelry designer. For people looking at moderate priced but interesting watches, Shorokhoff is a brand worth getting to know.

[@watchartsci]

Great points as always Howard. The 3-rotor Gerber is tempting as is the retrograde seconds of his. Exploring the AHCI watchmakers is a trip into both master talents and a rainbow of innovations. Take care and be safe!😷

[@richardjones2609]

Outstanding!

[@watchartsci]

Hey Richard, thanks man! Take care, Bill😷

[@bogrot69]

The ad I got was a father surprizing all of his kids with ten dollar smart watches Tragic 😂 I really appreciate your channel sir! I'm relatively new to collecting and the info you provide has been a great help. All the best from Canada.

[@watchartsci]

Hi TB! Welcome to our channel and to watch collecting. What kind of watches are you interested in collecting? Kindest regards, Bill

[@bogrot69]

@@watchartsci Inexpensive ones! lol Kidding. I like Divers and military watches a bit of everything really. I believe in collecting for the sheer joy of it. You can flip a watch for big bucks but the cash will only be with you for so long. A watch that you really enjoy can be with you for a lifetime.

[@watchartsci]

Maybe a fun group project would be to make a military field watch under $100. We could all get the same parts and then put one together. Let me know is something like that would be interesting to you...it would to me! Kindest regards, Bill

[@bogrot69]

@@watchartsci Not sure if I'm that confident yet but yes I'm definitely game!

[@watchartsci]

I'll put a little video together and see who'd be interested Trüe Brit... Cheers, Bill

[@justmyfreak]

Those FP Journe are gorgeous.

[@watchartsci]

You have wonderful taste in watches Zainul! Have you seen this video on FP Journe? kzbin.info/www/bejne/inawamZ3m615adE Kindest regards, Bill

[@conservativemovement]

Thank you!

[@watchartsci]

You're welcome, CM! Take care, Bill

[@RonaldTagra]

So many Oreilly and computer books :) Perl, Mythical Man-month, etc

[@watchartsci]

Hi Ronald, O'Reilly was one of my publishers, and I had to learn Perl for another book on Server-Side Flash I did some years ago. Not sure about 'Mythical Man-mouth'... Cheers, Bill

[@AlbertoBertorelli1814]

thanks this really helped.

[@watchartsci]

My pleasure Eden. Kindest regards, Bill

[@MaxiGenferei]

Wow what an amazing collection. Only a man with fine taste and education can own this kind of collection. These watches are extremely expensive, but how many rich people would go just for royal oak, Submariner, and nautilus (at best). Well i wish I had most of these watches but my dream watch is the Vacheron and the first one ? Was it the cartier Dali version version?

[@watchartsci]

Maximus, that VC was either the Historiques 1921, (that I still have) or the 1972, which I sold to make room for some newer watches I liked. Take care, Bill

[@wysiwyg2489]

One additional comment about storage Bill: Make sure your collection is stored away from high power electronics such as TV's, computers, etc. Electric fields are associated to magnetic fields and after prolonged exposure, steel components may turn magnetic, which will affect the watch mecanism design intent.

[@watchartsci]

Good point Wiz-ee-wig! Take care, Bill

[@wysiwyg2489]

@@watchartsci Thank you, my nickname stands for What You See Is What You Get, an editing software to check final content LOL.

[@Ddayrogue555]

great video, vindicators deserves some credit for the word's first colorful pilot's watch

[@watchartsci]

The Vindicators are colorful but with the Miyota 8125 running the watch, I'm not sure what kind of credit they're due. They're a Standard Horology watch, and their pricing is reasonable. Good luck with the start up!! Kindest regards, Bill

[@Ddayrogue555]

WatchArtSci thanks! your videos are great. I would not recommend chrono 24 in general they are priced higher then eBay with less buyer protection. in my experience eBay sets the market price.

[@watchartsci]

Fire, I've not had a bad experience with either so far. However, I usually go straight to the seller and simply use Ebay and Chrono24 as contact sources. The transactions I've made directly through Chrono24 have worked out very securely, and for dealing with companies overseas, I prefer them. With Ebay, I usually deal directly with the seller. Fire, you and I set the market based on what we're willing to pay; not them! We need to stick together as collectors! Cheers, Bill

[@tubeme162]

Great content - thanks! But can you PLEASE focus the camera on the watches so we can actually see the watches clearly 😮

[@watchartsci]

Ok David, will do. Take care, Bill

[@eddiedevonrex2308]

Hi Bill great talk, few questions, box and papers? How important are these especially the papers, I am told that papers can add 10-15% to the value of the watch especially the higher end, have been looking at a Vacheron Retrograde, really like it, visited the jeweler and had a look, all kosher, but no papers, he is willing to a deal a deal! should I pay an extra 1500 or so for papers and records, thanks

[@watchartsci]

Hi Ajeet. I bought an FP Journe without papers. I took it to a FP Journe boutique in NYC and they examined it, photographed it and sent the photos along with their comments to Geneva. The Geneva office looked at the comments and photos and send me the papers, with FP Journe's signature. Also, my Patek Philippe came without papers and for a fee of 125 Swiss francs (about $125), I was sent the papers along with a lifetime subscription to their magazine. I would not purchase a watch from any dealer who wants an extra $1,500 for the papers. Kindest regards, Bill

[@j.r.regenold9094]

can you do a PDF of your horology chart? I would like to be able to print it. Thx. Good show as always.!

[@watchartsci]

That list will forever need tweaking. However, that's a good idea and I'll have to get to it. Did you see the #98 video? That's got more detail. Cheers, Bill

[@williekamin8482]

Thanks for the tips Bill.. I like the watch box. Can you advise the brand and where to get it.? Cheers. Willie

[@watchartsci]

Hey Willie, you're welcome for the tips! I cannot give you the make or brand of the watch case because I have no idea what the brand is. (I just looked at it again, and found nothing!) However, it does have an interesting story. When I was getting ready to get a bigger box, a guy at the Vacheron Constantin meeting place (TheHourLounge dot com) asked if I'd be interested in a trade since he was downsizing his collection; so I send him my old case, and he sent me the one I have. I felt sort of bad (...not very...) because I thought his case was much nicer. When I first got his case, it was sort of stinky-it had a peculiar odor. So I vacuumed it out and aired it out on a sunny-freezing New England day, and after that it never smelled bad again. Love the case, and if I ever find one like it, I'll get the name and brand and pass it on to you. Kindest regards, Bill

[@ivermec-tin666]

Keep your eye on massdrop now called drop. They have watch cases, watches, winders, etc... The drop model is peculiar, but if you are patient...

[@gohawks2004]

I am really happy that you answer me! I Am a great fan of your videos! It is great to ask the opinion of someone with your knowlege! That IWC I bought on a auction for a great deal, I got it for only $6000 usd! I really love independent watchmakers for example Kari Voutilainen, Gronefeld, MB&F! However, FP Journe, I am only 27 and dont have enough funds to purchase a watch of this calibre! So that deal would be an opportunity to get into a exceptional horology piece! My current collection is full of strong horology and high horology pieces! Such as: Glashutte, jaquet droz, AP, panerai, iwc ingenieur amg, piaget, chaumet, 3 JLC, Blancpain Fifty fathoms, breitling... So for months I have been trying to find something really special and different that I could afford! Do you think that watch would be really special for me?

[@watchartsci]

fernando goncalo It looks to be special for any watch collector, but in the last analysis the decision must be yours. Kindest regards Bill

[@eddiedevonrex2308]

Also, waste buying tastes are different in Asia vs Europe vs USA, for sellers the big hong Kong auction sites like Christie’s etc might get u a better price especially the niche independent brands, also the taxes are a bit lighter in Hong Kong, was looking to sell my Speake Marin, and I looked at past auctions and the records showed better prices in HK, so different brands sell better in different parts of the world, Also the sellers premium is flexible depending on the rarity of the watch and how it fits into their catalogue and presentation etc, the buyers premium is very fixed.

[@watchartsci]

Ajeet! That's a great point about different tastes in different parts of the world. I'm going to look and see if I can find a marketing breakdown by sales of different countries. I know that Jaquet Droz targets the Chinese market as does Bovet more than the European or American market. Kindest regards, Bill

[@riverwho1]

Hi Bill, thanks for the great tips. I've recently been looking at Cartier. Where do you see them in the watchmaker hierarchy? Thanks again, Munther

[@watchartsci]

Hey Riverwho1! If you're new to watch collection, start with a Jaeger-LeCoultre. They're better watches for the same money. Too many Cariers are "all hat and no cattle," cowboys. There are some key Cartiers that are both worthy of collectors and interesting horologically. Kindest regards Bill

[@riverwho1]

Thanks for the insight!

[@juniorjohnson5961]

Hello Bill , I'm catching up on your old videos what do you think about Homage Watches there are a few watches that I really like but can't afford ,I was considering getting a Homage I see alot of micro brands using the Seiko NH 35 is it a good movement ,Take care and stay safe !

[@watchartsci]

Hi Junior, there are a lot of good homages, but there are no good fakes. Find something you like, whether original or homage, and get it. I think that the Reverso homage to an earlier version of itself is actually an improvement. Take care, Bill

[@gabrieltorre6413]

The watches under the "Exceptional" banner, are small specialty firms or old famous watchmaking houses that have the name has been bought and brought back and working with computer design, high end materials, hitech production methods and handmade assembly, adjustments, polishing & very limited production runs. The "High" horology watches have a much better history & tract records.

[@watchartsci]

Hi Gabriel, yes that's largely true. Some, such as Leroy, who had the most complicated mechanical watch from 1900 - 1989, seemed to have ceased making their own movements and I removed them from that top tier, along with some others. Christiaan v.d. Klaauw makes great celestial movements, but their basic movements are Soprod A10s, an ETA clone with 4 more jewels. That top tier needs review, especially since I based that list on watch-rankings.com . Others, like Bovet 1822 and H. Moser et Cie set up their own movement mfg. with Dimier and Precision Engineering AG, respectively-both make their own hairsprings, which is quite rare. I would very much appreciate your suggestions on which of those companies should stay as Exceptional Horology and which ones should be moved.

[@DoctorAB282]

Bill F.P chronometer review it’s so beautiful watch wear it on good health

[@watchartsci]

Ali! Love that Chronomet Souvrain! Simple, clear and looks great. Kindest regards, Bilo

[@pilotstyle123]

On the top row the 4th from the left, what watch is it? it looks gorgeous. The asymmetrical one.

[@watchartsci]

Hi Pilotstyle! That's my Vacheron Constantin 1972. The official name of that watch is "MXMLXXII", but that's really difficult to pronounce. That particular model was made between 1999 and 2013. (Mine was made in 2000). Here's the story behind it. In 1972, Vacheron Constantin won the Prestige de France, the first (and only) watch company to ever win that award. So, they created a watch to commemorate that event. The first Prestige de France by VC was produced from 1972 to 1999 when the unpronounceable "MXMLXXII" was introduced. In 2013, the latest Prestige came out. Interestingly, the men's version of the watch did not do that well in sales and became easy prey for vultures like me who picked up for a very good price. The latest Prestige in my opinion is a rare beauty; however, if you go to the VC site you'll see there's one men's version of the watch and five or six versions of the women's version, including the smaller ones with quartz movements. Kindest regards, Bill

[@pilotstyle123]

Excellent thank you!

[@emilionavarro2992]

MXMLXXII does not really need to be pronounced; it means, in roman numerals, precisely "1972". And yes, it is a beauty.

[@watchartsci]

What Emilio??!! I just learned to say "ūndēvīgintī septuāgintā duo" in Latin! You're right, though... '1972' is a lot easier and everyone will understand it. Kindest regards, Bill

[@sandydenny4ever164]

Great vid. I'm certainly pleased with my best watch at the best price, albeit the ebouche both came from the South China shores, and by the yard from outside suppliers, still, it's got a quality leather strap, and an orig m/ment from the Swiss heartlands. Quite why it says London on it in tiny letters is a bit of a puzzler.

[@watchartsci]

You know SandyDenny4Ever, they're doing some interesting things in China, and it's not going to be too long before they start looking to enter the rarified air of "Haute Horlogerie." Their designs keep getting more interesting too! Kindest regards, Bill

[@sandydenny4ever164]

True Bill, the case and sapphire on me C.Ward is of very high quality, better than my tissot's, which isn't saying much i know. I feel i would have to go beyond the JLC master control line for a real upgrade. The 50 will tickle my savings, but it's still pullin' strong. Nothing wrong with a diver in one's collection, and i'm really feeling Blancpain are the most socially conscious high horology brand, with a superb portfolio.

[@watchartsci]

Tell me about Blancpain's socially conscious HH brand. I've got a real soft spot for them. Cheers, Bill

[@sandydenny4ever164]

Their ...er.. the cheapest, except when you go up the scale, and i can just about fit them under my fiscal radar. Haute beyond the top 10%, and a great place to lodge if you want a simple dress, or, with a bit of hand wringing, the best diver.

[@watchartsci]

Blancpain has one of the most interesting histories. On 9 January 1983, it sold the Rayville-Blancpain name to Jacques Piguet, son of Frédéric Piguet and director of the company of that name, and Jean-Claude Biver, at that time employed by the SSIH. So, at one time, the Frédéric Piguet movement maker owned Blancpain, the watchmaker. Later, Frédéric Piguet came to be owned by Swatch and then the movement maker for Blancpain! That's one of the many reasons I like Blancpain. Cheers, Bill

[@DocBaps]

Hi Bill. Can you kindly clarify if any of the following A. Lange & Sönhe models are considered part of the exceptional tier: 1 Time Zone, Datograph or Richard Lange Torbillon "Pour le Mérite"?

[@watchartsci]

Hi Doc, a lot of the A. Lange watches definitely would tip over to the Exceptional Horology Tier. Compare them to the Lang & Heyne watches where you find the whole brand on the Exceptional tier with their innovation, hand finishing and the mined diamond atop the balance shaft! But there's nothing shoddy about A. Lange, at all! Cheers, Bill

[@LaurentiusTriarius]

I didn't use any of the original leather or croc straps who come with my watches but who will. I put them in a mason jar with those humidity regulator packs I'm still unsure if I should oil them from time to time...

[@watchartsci]

I've used pure Neatsfoot oil for mine, but I'm considering other oils. Your mason jar may work out fine. Take care, Bill

[@nrs6956]

Good advice. Could you recommend a "time grapher" for under $200.00. Thank you.

[@watchartsci]

Hi NrS ... the Weishi 1000 is $135 and is the one I have Good luck! Cheers, Bill

[@eusupporter8438]

Nice video and again a learned something new. I will never will close the buckle before I store one of my watches. There is just one point I disagree with you. You showed the Junghans brand under Standard Horology. You talk about somebodyelses movement. I am not sure if these so called inhouse movements are overrated. They are not fine technology just because they are made inhouse. There is something as heritage that also counts, in my opinon. In the case of Junghans it is the Max Bill. If it comes to Bauhaus watches you only get the original if you buy a Max Bill. In my eyes it makes it a strong horology. So Junghans is strong Horology for my. And if ist is just this watch. But as said, just my point.

[@watchartsci]

Hey Prussian Gent, I know very little about Junghans. I made the rankings based on watch-rankings.com , and if I wasn't familiar with a brand, I just left it as it was. I made several changes, and Junghans may indeed deserve a higher ranking. A brand's history counts for little, as different owners do different things with a company. Germany went through some horrendous upheavals, and so maybe something has happened with Junghans that I should know about. So tell me something about their current watches and watchmaking that make them a Strong Horology. Thanks, Bill ... and Happy New Year!!!

[@eusupporter8438]

Junghans has not just a long Traditions in watchmaking. The brand is still innovative. There are the three columns they stand on. First is the Max Bill. We can say the original Bauhaus watch. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Max_Bill He started working with Junghans in the 1960th creating great design for watches. A design that was taken over by many brands, but as said before, Junghans is the original. originalmaxbilljunghans.blogspot.de/ The next ist the Meister Serie. Here Junghans shows the fine art of watchmaking. May be you should have a look at these: www.junghans.de/de/junghans-kollektion/uhren/junghansmeister/detail.html The third column is the radio controlled watches. The first radio controlled wrist watch was a Junghans in 1990 (Junghans Mega 1 LCD). They are still innovative working in this segment. Junghans already has kalibers of their own. (J325 und 330 as own development). As far as I know they are working on other new mechanical kaliber. kzbin.info/www/bejne/iXycp6GJgddmg80 Even if you may not understand the last video I linked you may get an Idea what they do with watches. and.... Sorry if i made some wrong typing, this is not my language. by the way, I changed my avatar name, guess it describes better what I do online

[@watchartsci]

Thanks man, I'll take a look at them. Kindest regards, Bill

[@ThanhLai5]

Hello sir, As a Habring2 watches lover, I love both the Felix and Foudroyante models. What do you think about the Foudroyante model of Habring2? Best, Thanh

[@watchartsci]

Hey Thanh Lai that is a tough question. If you want a simple yet beautiful example of some of the best watchmaking in the world, the Felix would do just fine. At 38.8 mm it's an ideal case size. However, the Foudroyante with the flashing seconds in the sundial and the center jumping seconds is a treat. They come in 36mm and 42mm cases, which is quite convenient unless the 38.8mm is just right. Both have the in-house A11 movement ; so that's not a consideration, but what would you do with a Foudroyante except be distracted by the strobe light-like flashing of the foudroyante (lightning) sub-dial? I'd probably choose the Felix, but I do love the near-useless complication of the Foudroyante! Kindest regards, Bill

[@ThanhLai5]

And the cost of the Felix is also a plus for me. With your answer, I'm leaning toward the Felix. Best, Than

[@watchartsci]

My Felix is one of my favorites! If you get one, I think you'll enjoy it. (Also, have you noticed there are not Felixes on the pre-owned market? People who have them keep them! Cheers, Bill

[@nrs6956]

What is your opinion of "Grey Market" watches. Which is watches sold by benders with papers authenticating, but no warranty by manufacturers which gives a disc of 15 -20%. But the warranty by the venders are sent to ???? covered by a 1 to 2 years warranty. Many manufacturers will only warranty a watch through their "boutiques." So in other words you pay for a factory warranty even if it's not used? Thank you.

[@watchartsci]

The manufacturers and even retailers are as dependent on the "gray market" (better named 'Secondary Market') as collectors-even more so, if one or more of their models don't sell. They then sell them to the vendors in the secondary markets to clear their inventory. Here you can find real 'Cinderella' (unpopular) models for bargain prices. The Audemars Piguet Edward Piguet models were so unpopular that AP dropped the line, and collectors were able to get great buys. Cheers, Bill

[@publiusvelocitor4668]

Has there been a long-term drift in the overall standards of horology? With new technologies, and more competition (I think), would the standards of high horology 50 years ago now be the norm for strong horology? I've seen some vintage Patek Elipse from the 1970's which didn't really impress me, and really, a present day Omega Constellation Globemaster seems to have better finishing, and a more nicely decorated movement in the display back.

[@watchartsci]

Hi PV, if you look at some of the more creative souls and brands you can find both dedication to quality and craftsmanship that seems to have been lost in the business of selling watches with mechanical movements. The Ovale from Parmigiani ( quillandpad.com/2017/03/03/collectors-view-parmigiani-ovale-pantographe-wrist-tells-us-parmigiani/ ), the Fuse´ and Chain from A. Lange & Söhne, and everything F. P. Journe has done, to name a few. A tip on hand-finishing: Look at the tips in the bridges and bases; if they've been beveled, it's by hand because it's next to impossible to do it with a 'finishing machine.' Cheers, Bill

[@publiusvelocitor4668]

Thanks! I always appreciate your thoughtful videos and comments.

[@enginu.3996]

how about Oris ? is high horology? for example you advised oris calibre sellita SW200-1 40MM is it high?

[@watchartsci]

Engin, Oris is one of those difficult brands to classify in one category, but it's certain moving into stronger horology. Take care and be safe, Bill😷

[@enginu.3996]

@@watchartsci thank you!

[@taylorgroove]

im a beginner , so thanks for the video a learn a lot, greetings from Ecuador.

[@watchartsci]

Hi Charles!! We're all beginners who share! I'm very glad you liked it. Kindest regards, Bill

[@luiscastro5456]

hey Charles, how easy is for you to get good deals on high or even strong horology watches in Ecuador ?

[@jcordic]

Hi Bill, Would you buy one watch for $15k or 3 for $5k? Or… 1 for $45k or 3 for $15k. -John

[@watchartsci]

John, it clearly depends on the watches. It's always quality over quantity; and quality over price. Take care, bill

[@angangeline1986]

Do you have Dewitt watch,is it a good watch?

[@watchartsci]

I don't have one, but some are made by top watchmakers Ang. Have to get the right one and you can get the best for a fraction of the price. Take care, Bill

[@seekingthetruth3410]

You don't have TAG Heuer In there and you have Patek in the high horology, they are the number one watch makers, also Hublot isn't there

[@watchartsci]

Hey Seek... TAG and Hublot are not in this video, but they are in others. TAG is pretty much Standard Horology and Hublot is a mixed bag. Patek Philippe cranks out 50,000 watches annually and makes good watches...but there's a whole other level of watches and watchmakers that watch collectors consider to be in more rarified positions in horology! Welcome to the channel! Kindest regards, Bill

[@thang1011]

Where would you put eterna watches with in house movement? Thanks.

[@watchartsci]

With the Eterna-manufactured movements, Thang, ... Strong Horology. Take care and be safe, Bill 😷

[@thang1011]

@@watchartsci thanks for the reply Bill. What is your thought about the new Eterna Calibre 39? I think some of their models with in-house movement is selling at a bargain price? Thanks.

[@watchartsci]

Thang, check out this article, and I think you'll like the '39 even more. If the price is right, sounds like a good buy: www.hodinkee.com/articles/dissecting-the-new-eterna-caliber-39 Take care and be safe, Bill 😷

[@andrew_owens7680]

Could you please rate Jacques Lemans? I have two of their quartz watches and one is running perfect for over 2 decades. Only the strap wore out. Obviously I'm starting out and I don't have the budget to buy any of the high horology examples you listed. But I'm thinking perhaps I could get some good examples of manual. Vulcain looks like a possibility.

[@watchartsci]

Hi Andrew, Vulcain would be a great choice! In fact I can't think of a better one for a modest budget.However, not all Vulcains have in-house movements. The series V10-V18 and V20-V28 are all in-house. The V-50 and V-60 series are not. A Zenith Elite, pre-owned, would be another excellent choice. I have a Zenith Elite, and not only is it in the Strong Horology tier, it's a great timekeeper (I got the GMT version, and at a very good price.) You can find brand new Vulcains for here: www.chrono24.com/vulcain/prices-for-watches--new.htm?gclid=Cj0KCQjwnqzWBRC_ARIsABSMVTPw9Mtc0d0feoPwAvrRzaaced9fVAY1vQaPZAWgZuDBRDRlh-S1K6oaAi8gEALw_wcB&resultview=list&sortorder=1 Here for Zenith Elite under $2k: www.chrono24.com/zenith/elite--id5834823.htm As for the Jacques Lemans, they were categorized as 'pseudo luxury' - along with Rado and Baume et Mercier. They're either quartz or ETA 7750s (automatics). I have a quartz Rado from 30 some years ago, and it still works fine, but this channel really isn't too helpful for quartz watches. Good Hunting! Bill

[@andrew_owens7680]

Great help! I feel like I'm in good hands taking your advice. :)

[@watchartsci]

Remember the most important rule: stay in your budget. Kindest regards, Bill

[@watchartsci]

Andrew, I just found that some of the Vulcains have Soprod movements. They have a Vulcain caliber number but house Sorprods (a copy of ETAs). Check at the Vulcain site for the movements. They tell you which ones have Soprods.

[@watchartsci]

Hi again Andrew. All Vulcain V-50 series and V-60 series are not in-house, but all kinds of different movement makers. V10-V18 and V20-V28 are all in-house.

[@gohawks2004]

Dear mr.Sanders, I was wondering if you could give me your opinion on Manufacture Royale? Is the watch really hand made/ hand finished? How does the Voltige 1770 compare to a simple version of a MB&F? Would be worth to trade an IWC Portuguese 7 days in yellow gold from 2008 + 5500 usd for a Manufacture Royale Voltige 1770? Thanks for your help, Fernando (from Brazil) =D

[@watchartsci]

Fernando that's a tough one because the Manufacture Royale Voltige 1770 is relatively new and rare. (At least to me.) You've probably seen the article in Hodinkee( www.hodinkee.com/articles/manufacture-royales-1770-voltige-focusing-on-the-escapement-and-balance-wheel ) and that's about all I know about it. It's listed for $33,000 ; so the question for you is your IWC worth more than $27,500? If it is, then I wouldn't go for it. However, if that seems like a good deal for a 9-year old 8k gold IWC Portuguese 7 days and you like the watch enough (it is fascinating!) then make the deal. Best of luck and let us know what you decide. Kindest regards, Bill

[@steviedj6730]

Do you still have the vacheron historiques ? Ive been looking at that seriously. But ive seen and heard criticisms of the movement. What is/was your take Bill?

[@watchartsci]

Stevie, what criticism have your heard of the caliber 4400? It's used on all the new hand-wound watches by VC, and keeps excellent time. Check out this review and reference to the comments by Kari Voutilainen: www.watchuseek.com/threads/vacheron-constantin-historiques-american-1921-review-by-the-watch-observer.486647/ Take care and be safe, Bill😷

[@rogerdare4299]

Where are you placing Czapek?

[@watchartsci]

I still see them as 'emerging' but I believe along the right lines into high horology, Roger. Take care, Bill

[@sergezerkin]

Not sure who put jlc and Patek in the same group as jlc is below glashutte and Rolex. Also why is Rolex in the same group as Seiko ? Like is skydweller the same as Seiko sarb 033 ? Also Moser is way below Patek. Not only from prestige and movement complications but alone the attention to details. We know how many bad products moser makes that’s why they can’t be bought for 8-9 k euro brand new in full gold. And calatravas are 3 times as expensive. Not to mention Patek just like Lange make the best chronographs and perpetuals which moser would never be able to do. Did you design this table your self ? Cuz it’s funny Lange and Patek are not exceptional but Bovet and moser are :)

[@watchartsci]

Serge, look here: www.watch-rankings.com/watch-rankings/ . That was the starting point. Your comments appear to be based on common assumptions based on popularities, but if you dig deeper, and check out what experts think (see who wins at Grand Prix d’Horlogerie de Genève, for example), you'll find that your assumptions may not hold up. You may think that Patek and A. Lange make the best perpetual calendars, but I, along with many others would disagree. Bovet, A. Lange and Patek Philippe have all won the Aiguille d'Or, most recently by Bovet. Moser makes excellent products, and while you may think, "we all know" otherwise, you'd be misguided in your assumptions. H. Moser et Cie is not as successful at mass-production as Patek (around 50,000 annually) nor A. Lange (who was saved from extinction by the Richemont Group); however Moser while only creating around 1,200 watches (more or less) each year, makes between 30-40,000 hairsprings that are used by most major high quality independents. (MB&F is one...) You are correct in asserting that they are not as popular as many other watches priced the same level and have been deeply discounted. Some collectors see it as an opportunity to get a high quality watch that they would not otherwise be able to afford, while others swayed more by hyperbole than any real knowledge of horology, pay the premiums for conformity. You seem to be a passionate collector; so I'm sure you would be guided by your own knowledge, and not herd assumptions. Take care, Bill

[@glenh4971]

Bill-thanx for all your tips and information. All my watches fall into the sub-standard horology category. You didn't mention this category. Any reason why? I am a member of a Vostoc watch group on Facebook. We don't use the term sub-standard horology there because the cult doesn't allow the use of this term. Evidently its not politically correct.

[@watchartsci]

Glen, the tiers were set up to keep collectors (especially new ones) from getting skinned. Vostoc is not sub-standard; it's Vostoc, enjoyed by thousands of collectors. You never need to apologize to me [or anyone else] because you enjoy Voctoc ... I love my Poljot ... the only alarm watch I have. Take care and be safe, Bill😷

[@glenh4971]

@@watchartsci You are right. Lots of people enjoy them. Including me.

[@heinerklaus8905]

Is handmade a qualification for watches? The 15 Hz Zenith Defy Lab is industrially produced. It will 10'000 and very special.

[@watchartsci]

Heiner Klaus 😮 Wowza!

[@Aramis7]

Good info. But Lange needs to be in Exceptional Horology....

[@watchartsci]

Aramis7, definitely some of the ALS watches are truly Exceptional Horology, but most are serial produced, and ever since they were bought by the Compagnie Financière Richemont SA (Richemont Group), the emphasis has shifted from a small number of exceptional watches to bigger numbers of watches that will sell and make the most money. Take care and be safe, Bill😷

[@Aramis7]

@@watchartsci Always good to hear from someone that knows their stuff. Subscribing

[@rogerdare4299]

I’m starting a FB group called Exceptional Horology Lounge. 😂

[@watchartsci]

Getting the tip top watches together I see, Roger. Take care, Bill

[@chrisauge6802]

Where would you rank Christopher Ward?

[@watchartsci]

Christopher Ward watches fall within the Standard Horology group. They make watches but not movements. Kindest regards, Bill

[@chrisauge6802]

WatchArtSci ...the reason I was asking is because CW I has been producing their own movements for a few years now & even have a uniquely modified moon phase module. They are a very small company to be producing these in house 5 day power reserve models but I fear that if they go out of business who would be able to service them? I would love for you to review their line up & do a video on their models because I think they are an excellent value for money watch but I am a novice watch guy & I very much respect your opinions on horological. Thanks again for educating me...I appreciate your insight

[@watchartsci]

Well Chris, that'll teach me to ignore a brand for too long! It sounds like they've moved up to Strong Horology while I wasn't paying attention! Let me spend some time looking at them, and I thank you for alerting me to the fact that they're now making their own movements! Kindest regards, Bill

[@popughomer64]

Where does Movado fall?

[@watchartsci]

Hi Popughomer64~ a Movado, while having very interesting designs, has generally cheap movements. They're considered Standard Horology. Kindest regards, Bill

[@popughomer64]

thanks for the fast reply, and all the great information i really enjoy your videos.

[@watchartsci]

You're welcome man, glad to be some help! Kindest regards, Bill

[@nickkendall3764]

Is it a vintage movado ? Or new

[@Handle6478]

I'd argue Rado is a mixed bag as they are more of a material design company. They pioneered Tungsten Carbide, Ceramics etc.. that many more reputable companies in the Swatch Group use today. But yes definitely not known for their movements for sure.They sure do have some of the more polarizing designs though.

[@watchartsci]

Sean, I was given a Rado by a dear friend about 30 years ago. It was made of titanium with gold plating and a sapphire glass. I still have it; it still tells perfect (quartz) time; yet the horology [time-keeping mechanism] is by quartz, and the mechanical ones are run on ETA and Sellita movements; so it will be a Standard Horological piece with great innovation in case materials and watch dial design. Kindest regards, Bill

[@Handle6478]

Yes and I agree with your assessment, most definitely not strong horology. I just have a strong bias towards the brand because my father gave me a Rado haha and I'm a sucker for their vintage non oblong designs.

[@BeautyofScent]

You put Seiko in "strong horology" like rolex , zenith etc????

[@watchartsci]

No. Look carefully, Seiko is in Strong Horology. They make their own movements and a number of excellent watches. Some of the Grand Seiko models belong in High Horology, though. Take care, Bill

[@BeautyofScent]

Ya i wrote strong horology. So a seiko SKX or turtle is strong horology? I think maybe the grand seiko could be strong horology but not seiko in general.

[@watchartsci]

Yes, BofS, you did write Strong Horology. My bad. Watches with their own manufactured movements of decent horology, materials and engineering are part of Strong Horology. The SKX and Turtle are on certainly included, but within a tier there are different levels, and they're probably on a different level than a Rolex Daytona. Cheers, bill

[@BeautyofScent]

Well in that case brands like Orient, and the chinese movements and brands should be considered "strong horology" since they make their own movement.

[@watchartsci]

Good point but they may get hung up on the part about "decent horology, materials and engineering." They are Standard Horology. Have you ever closely looked at an Orient movement?

[@stevenhickenjr]

Top tip, don't buy a neon pink Oris on eBay, from India hahaha.

[@watchartsci]

I'll try to restrain myself...Cheers, Bill

[@stevenhickenjr]

Unfortunately as an 18 year old rookie, I fell straight into the Franken watch trap.

[@watchartsci]

Anyone who collects watches is bound to make mistakes. That's what comes from buying watches...especially "affordable" ones. The more you learn, the few the mistakes. Hang in there, Bill

[@stevenhickenjr]

Yeah that is very true!

[@franshinnen5408]

In

[@watchartsci]

In ...?

[@BeautyofScent]

That parmigiani watch looks like a cheap Fossil watch.

[@watchartsci]

With that Robin's Egg blue, it might in a picture, but 'in-person' you'd really like it. Parmigiani Fleurier makes outstanding watches and you can feel their quality while a Fossil feels and looks like a Fossil in reality. Cheers, Bill

[@richardteevan4480]

i disagree love em, verynice!!!

[@douglaswilliams774]

Another great lecture.... What book did you have success with ? I think I know as much about Rolls Royce as you ...been a fan since a child.....my father was in the oil business and he had a Shadow MK 2 as a company car . I loved it. The new Phantom or rather shall we say the BMW era cars although wonderful are to me not a true real Rolls Royce. It’s a great shame but the car industry is so interconnected. I’m a Porsche owner 996 and I can still relate to them from the 70,s models to now. I’m a member of Real Rolex Owners on FB, I own two both Submariner models. They are I think the BMW of watches in the watch world..... I am going to buy a Baume and Mercier Baumatic..5 day Clifton. I just wish it had a screw down Crown. Trying to buy the perfect watch like the perfect car......impossible!

[@watchartsci]

Well, Douglas, you certainly know your RRs given your background probably far more than I. With the B&M Baumatic, you get a ValFleurier movement and for a 996 owner, you might be interested a Parmigiani Fleurier Bugatti Aérolithe ... www.parmigiani.com/en/watch/bugatti/aerolithe/PFC329-3405600-HC6032 Sounds more your speed (...definitely in a good way!) Cheers, Bill

[@flashdamingo]

I'm calling BS .... no offence intended. Horology. 1. the study and measurement of time. 2. the art of making clocks and watches. Seeing as that is the definition....I assert that say for eg The Citizen Navihawk AT or GPS higher Horology than the timepieces listed as extreme horology.... Atomic timekeeping with eco drive powered quartz .....That's more accurate timekeeping hence higher on the horological pyramid. And under $500. Look out for when they marry precisionist high frequency quartz with atomic timekeeping and solar ecodrive power... Nice beret ....is that a 12 " Elosogui ?

[@watchartsci]

Hey Flash, interesting argument, and on some elementary level you'd be right. I suppose if you get right down to it a smart watch synched with an atomic clock would be the ultimate horology. So your $10 quartz watch with a picture of Homer Simpson on the dial would crush a $150,000 Dufour simplicity. I wish it were that easy, but there's a whole other part about craftsmanship, and this stupid insistence by people like myself who only want to deal with mechanical watches and their movements. But hey! You want accuracy, you can get it much cheaper than a lot of these less accurate masterpieces. Cheers, Bill

[@flashdamingo]

@@watchartsci I also have a few mechanical pieces low end Japanese (Seikos)(Orient) swiss (Swatch)(and Russian (Vostoks euro and Chistopol and aviator ....also the Seagull wu yi and a hmt pilot and some microbrands like trintec Borealis and maratac with seiko and miyota movements +some others. Low end by the shitter mentality but all nice watches which I enjoy. I think we need to dispel the notion that a beautiful and complex movement and corresponding price tag is the height of horology....it surely is NOT. That view of horology is anchored in the past. If you would observe the Skagen Hybrid.... Linked via smartphone to AT yet without soulless smartphone dial....actuall hands and indicies and a Bauhaus type design layout...

[@omniryx1]

Opinions, opinions, and some pretty obvious fallacies. I appreciate your effort, which I am sure is sincere and well-intentioned. But in a video specifically directed to beginners, it would be both honest and ethical to state clearly that these are your opinions, they are not the law and the prophets.

[@watchartsci]

TechTog, one of the worse things that a beginner faces are vague and unsubstantiated claims such as "...some pretty obvious fallacies..." without specifics. Tell me what you think I got wrong and why. Speak up. No one likes trolls. Thank you, Bill