Stephanie Gray | The Matt Fradd Show Ep. 9

I sit down with pro-life logic ninja Stephanie Gray to discuss abortion. I think this will be the best interview you've ever heard about how to refute pro-abortion arguments and how to make the pro-life case.
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[@PintsWithAquinas]

What signs of hope do you see in the pro-life movement? Let me know below.

[@shagarelli]

I was shocked to see the majority of groups at the Right to Life March in D.C. were high school and college age young adults. It truly gives me hope that more bills like the one passed in Alabama will become common in the near future.

[@doragrace679]

Matt I was seriously going to stop my support for your channel due to lack Content. But you totally redeem yourself in this new topic One of the biggest hopes that I have seen for change is this “heartbeat” law. My child would’ve been 19 years old this year ,If that law existed then. The same age I was when the decision of life and death was put into my hands. These new laws and hope has finally encourage me and my husband to seek healing from the death . We are actually attending Rachel’s Vineyard retreat in July. I hope one day to join you and others to save lives. God bless you💕

[@mikekeathley1120]

Life, and being in favor of something, namely, life. Got the smart aleck reply out of the way early. Great interview Matt!

[@ThinkClub]

I’m very open to pro life argument but in all honesty these are very bad arguments. I only lasted 35 minutes but the conflation of embryos and babies is generally the point where I think the pro life people lose their credibility in any debate. This is a serious issue and to ignore the massive material investment between an embryo and a baby removes the kind of thoughtfulness this important issue deserves.

[@pirates_of_davis]

Stephanie Gray Trent Horn Lila Rose Matt Fradd

[@mariobaratti2985]

04:40 Introduction 09:20 did you ever question your Faith? 13:00 Steel-man of pro-choice argument 18:30 How to answer rape/incest/emotional arguments 23:40 Defining personhood and what life is 31:10 the violin argument 53:10 what if the life of the mother is in danger? 01:08:35 Hillary Clinton quote 01:11:20 When does parenthood begin? 01:12:23 What do you say to people who say "We don't know when life begins?" 01:14:40 how do we know that life begins at conception? 01:18:30 Joe Rogan objection about abortion 01:19:30 the "best argument" for pro-choice 01:25:25 do you get tired of talking about this? 01:27:00 should we imprison women who do abortion? 01:30:37 is it right to use violence against abortion doctors? 01:45:00 how do you get from intense talk to lighter topics? 01:48:36 details of how an abortion happens 01:56:40 Stephanie speaks to a woman who just had an abortion 02:00:40 what do we do from here? 02:05:30 know more about Stephanie and her book 02:07:50 how to convince someone that abortion is wrong 02:08:30 what are the bad ways for prolife to convince others? 02:10:15 what's your take on using graphic images? 02:18:00 what do you think of people who go undercover in PP clinics?

[@jamesmerone]

3 Hail Marys for you.

[@rosiegirl2485]

Thank you for laying that out so beautifully!

[@giliemomsquared]

Thank you!

[@bulletanarchy6447]

Did I ever question my faith ? Of course I questioned it, that is how faith is formed. I questioned it and the answer was that the bible is absolute nonsense.

[@orbeuniversity]

Every time I listen to Stephanie Gray I'm proud to be a Canadian. And yes, Wow! is my reaction every time she responds to common pro-choice arguments.

[@steele8280]

Fantastic conversation. Will be watching this again many times.

[@PintsWithAquinas]

Thank you. Please help us by sharing.

[@namapalsu2364]

This is one of those time a youtube commenter say something I want to say. Especially about watching again many times.

[@abigailfranz3398]

Stephanie, you are such a beautiful witness! I love your logic and consistency, and your compassion. This video really made me think about a lot of the difficult areas surrounding the abortion debate and how to think through them logically. I've always been pro-life, but now I am really pro-life!

[@claremangin2684]

This video will change lives. God bless you both for allowing Him to work through you so wonderfully and efficaciously.

[@anne-mariepeter1926]

Wow what a slogan "Be a hero. Save a whale. Save a baby and go to jail". Fabulous interview. Will share this.

[@PintsWithAquinas]

👍 Please give this vid a thumbs up to tell Google to share this vid more.

[@Manuel-kl8jc]

@Goldie O Your comment is an abomination to those who are unable to defend themselves from people who are murdering them just because they are lower class economically. You don't care just because they are poor.

[@belmum1689]

@Goldie O In the olden days men who dishonored a single women and got her pregnant were whipped in the main street by the other town folks, but not any more he can now encourage, coerce and drive a women to abort his baby, Abortions was voted in for men by men so men can have sex with women without the promises of marriage & the responsibilities of fatherhood, which make women and their unborn babies very vulnerable.

[@Klee99zeno]

it is common to hear a pregnant woman say " I just felt the baby kick" They call it a baby, not a mass of cells. We often hear a woman's body described as having a baby bump, Again the word BABY appears.

[@dianasaur2131]

Yup, and never do we describe a woman carrying a baby as fat (her body) but pregnant with another person's body, not a tumour, ie mass of cells that shouldn't be there.

[@michaelroy6630]

I've been doing pro-life activism for years and have heard most of these arguments before, but hearing Stephanie speak them with such tact continies to blow my mind

[@michaelroy6630]

@Matt Blaise That’s awesome friend! In terms of books, one I would definitely recommend is “Stuck: A Complete Guide to Answering Tough Questions about Abortion” by Justina Van Manen: thebridgehead.ca/product/stuck/ Also, the organization Stephanie used to run, CCBR, is currently hosting an online pro-life study series for just $10 a person. It gives participants a solid foundation in how to be a pro-life ambassador and you get to meet other pro-lifers from across North America. I highly recommend it! You can learn more here: www.endthekilling.ca/study-series/

[@michaelroy6630]

@Matt Blaise Regarding the study series, I think they will be opening more slots for it soon, so you may have to check back in a few days if you're not able to sign up right away.

[@belmum1689]

@Matt Blaise Look up Trent Horn on u tube he also has a book Persuasive Pro Life and Scott Klusendorf here is two of his web site's prolifetraining.com/resources/the-case-for-life/ www.caseforlife.com/evidence.html

[@Lucy-nw4im]

So, judging by your name you’re male. What’s it like being a man in the abortion debate? That has to be difficult.

[@michaelroy6630]

@@Lucy-nw4im There are challenges for sure. Most people don't care either way, but there are many who claim to be deeply against men talking about abortion (though they're usually only against pro-life men talking about abortion). However, my female colleagues face their own set of issues doing pro-life work as well (rape threats are tragically somewhat common). So I don't think pro-life men are necessarily worse off in discussing abortion, they just face different challenges than pro-life women.

[@alldoneup]

I am so looking forward to watching this whole interview later! Thank you so much for advocating for the preborn and their right to life!

[@nolanknows1401]

Wow... her first argument was so simple and obvious..... but incredibly profound. I never thought of it that way

[@AthanaSus]

I had an ethics professor who is a priest trying to communicate this topic to us first year med students. Sadly it wasn't received well, so thank God that there is a podcast such as this to bring this topic to catholic med students.

[@Coalition4Life]

This is one of the most incredible, articulate, honest conversations on abortion. Thank you so much, Stephanie and Matt!

[@moniuxmoniux]

Hi Stephanie, great to see you! Since I met you in Costa Rica I 've got married and have two kids, your interview has tremendous value to me now that I see it as a mom! Hugs from Madison, WI Monica ♧

[@myhandleiscreative]

This woman is an absolute rock star. Brilliant and delightful.

[@IDMD8]

You had me at kangaroo scrotum....

[@killianmiller6107]

Only in Australia...

[@rextyler8657]

That new set is great. MUCH more comfortable to look at, and it looks like it's more comfortable in which to hold conversations. Great job.

[@LuisSalazar-vu4jd]

In Catholic Schools should teach apologetic courses, I think students will be happy and more interested in defend their faith.

[@sarahjoubert2239]

Wow I look up to both of you. As the chaplain of the pro-life club at my high school, I’m always looking for more arguments to share with my school and fellow officers, and I found the perfect videos to share! And I already did! Thank you!

[@antonioleitao7796]

Loved this! Great fan of Stephanie! The person that I've ever seen defending life with the most solid stance and arguments. Thanks Matt for the interview. God bless both of you.

[@jimmymelonseed4068]

“Kill Relativism, Not Babies” has been my favorite pro-life billboard ever

[@bulletanarchy6447]

Pro Life: Not just desperate for an argument

[@RiotOfDeath]

Just wanted to say how useful and helpful all these episodes have been! Yes, they may be long but they are so extensive and helpful in understanding topics! Keep them coming and I hope you know how much this helps us Catholics and non-Catholics in learning more about our beautiful faith :)

[@emilybleed7392]

Hey Matt it would be a great time to have Stephanie back on!!!

[@impresofia]

Totally!

[@Lou-ev1hk]

Stephanie may God bless you abundantly, you're a bright light shining with His light

[@tywinkalandyk]

This was such a great interview. As a Christian male that feels morally obligated to take a stand for the unborn. This equipped me with some great tools. Thank you

[@bulletanarchy6447]

Like what ?

[@donaldsanchez7099]

Stephanie Gray is indeed a pro-life logic ninja. What a great interview Matt and such helpful, cogent arguments marshaled by Stephanie. Thanks to the both of you!

[@curiouslykristina]

This was a great conversation. Very open and honest; and it wasn’t holding back to hide gray areas. Thanks for this! 😊

[@ciscopaco05]

Thanks for the chat with Steph!!! She’s a machine!!! Matt could you have a dialogue with someone who defends life in regards to medically assisted suicide, now that it is such a current hot topic here in Australia! Cheers mate.

[@orbeuniversity]

For that I have a good suggestion for a guest: Blaise Alleyne who works for the Canadian Centre for Bio-ethical Reform (CCBR, EndTheKilling.ca) He and Jonathon Van Maren recently wrote a book on that topic titled: A Guide for Discussing Assisted Suicide. I highly recommend it.

[@bigbrowntrout1]

Praise the Lord for the SCOTUS ruling two days ago. Every pro-life person should revisit this video to bolster their position for the inevitable conversations to come in the weeks ahead!

[@jkellyid]

Abortion has matured to the point of basically acknowledging they are performing murder on a human. Now they are finally admitting to their utalitarian/authoritarian ethic.

[@AthAnRi5]

OUTRAGEOUS Video, How dare you say that Jameson isn't a great whiskey. It's the best. Apart from that wonderful upload keep them coming.

[@feliciajoachim5510]

This is fantastic. Thanks to both of you.

[@mariobaratti2985]

02:12:35 "Have you seen Miley Cyrus licking the cake?" "Yeah she licks things a lot" gosh Stephanie I didn't see that coming lmao

[@simonluzny2487]

That conversation literally blew my mind! Stephanie rules!

[@the-Carpenter]

There is no doubt in my mind that the Holy Spirit is working in Stephanie's life. She is simply brilliant.

[@CMDR-Cody]

This is hands down one of the best anti abortion conversations I've seen. Stephanie does a great job of destroying these arguments without really needing to bring religion into the mix. That's great because it tends to shut down dialog fairly quickly.

[@4309chris]

she shattered every argument. I'd challenge someone, anyone, to try to debunk her. it's impossible because she is rooted in truth. truth is not able to be debated, it just exists.

[@DavidMishchukDM]

This is such a good discussion, incredible arguments and reasoning!

[@UntilDawnASMR]

I’m totally in tears after hearing Stephanie’s story about her debate and realizing that the uterus is set apart and was created FOR our children. Such an incredible insight.

[@chichilinha2895]

What a great master class for pro life Stephanie Gray and Matt Fradd have gifted us with by having this conversation...Thank you so much!

[@EdoKu18]

I need subtitles for this, this needs to be spread.

[@christopherus]

Wow, one sip of whiskey and this show took a wacky turn. Never saw that coming. New meaning to “down under”.

[@christopherus]

The Uncle Ben Line is what I was thinking just before you said that! Yes, it certainly applies to sex. It is a great power given for the purpose of proCREATING a brand new person! SUCH a great power! What greater power does anyone have?! Therefore, with great power (sexuality) comes great responsibility.

[@melaniesweeney4665]

To date, one of my favorite episodes ever.

[@orbeuniversity]

@Matt Fradd, please continue releasing segments of this interview.

[@fitnessidentitytraining3437]

1:19:32 “I LOVE THIS ONE” 👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼 best moment ever! Jk Awesome discussion, it covers all arguments pro-life, with pro-choice approach as well. I highly recommend it. Thank you Matt and Stephanie 😀

[@sb02907]

I wanted to like this vid Matt, but Stephanie pronounced ukulele (ooh-koo-leh-leh) incorrectly! :P Kidding. Great interview, I thoroughly enjoyed the video!

[@MouthwashTyphoon]

I think that the problem of lying can be solved by considering that if the lie wasn’t told, a greater evil would have occurred, and so whilst the lie is still evil, it is a lesser evil, and therefore as close to good as is possible in that situation because it prevents a greater evil. It would be worse to not lie and allow (or even facilitate) the greater evil when you could have stopped it. Sometimes the only choices you have are bad ones, but you still have to choose. I believe that a greater evil being present would be a mitigating factor for the person who chose to lie.

[@Davi-sw8le]

I don't think that's a compelling argument from a Christian point of view. Christianity does not give instructions to weigh in the possible secondary effects of a measure in order to assess whether that action itself is right or wrong.

[@chet3215]

amazing discussion. Best i have every heard.

[@christopherus]

Any correlation between the afternoon crash/“morning person” and coffee consumption? For me, yes.

[@rcolerobinson]

Fantastic interviewing here, Matt

[@milviawinters5302]

fantastic talk, Thanks so much

[@angelajoy6789]

Love listening to her logical arguments. I wish I was half that articulate. The question of whether killing/attacking an abortionist is a self defense issue. Most laws (at least in the US) say that if someone enters your home without invitation and you feel threatened- you have a right to defend your life and property. The instance is given of a mother hiring someone to come in kill her child while she is holding it. There is another person present with a weapon (gun or not) that can cause harm or death to the person she hired. In this scenario, the 'other person' doesn't know and hasn't agreed to what the mother has done. All they know is that a person has entered their home and they have reasonable belief their life or the life of others are at immediate risk of harm or death by the person who has entered. Using any tool to harm or kill that intruder is reasonable and justifiable. That is self defense. HOWEVER, if you had foreknowledge that this person was coming to your home and laid in wait for them to come through the door in order to harm or kill them-that is NOT self defense. If that intruder actually approached you on the street rather than in your home and tried to harm you-you would also be permitted to defend yourself. There is direct and present danger to you. But, that is not the case with killing or harming an abortionist. Any instance in which an abortionist has been or could be targeted; there is no direct or present danger to you or anyone. This is not an act of self defense. We do not punish people, especially with the death penalty, for things they are going to do or likely to do. A person has to have actually done the crime to get a penalty for it. If a pro-life person were to kill an abortionist on the street or in a clinic is an act of vengeance- for what has been done in the past. If abortion was illegal; an abortionist would need to be arrested, face trial, and serve the consequence they receive in sentencing. That person has a right to a fair trial no matter how guilty we know him/her to be. Vengeance is both legally and morally wrong. You probably have this well reasoned out by now but this would be where I would stand on it.

[@firstlast-sm6hx]

This was awesome. Stephanie Gray really goes through, and considers the best pro-choice arguments. My take on the kidney argument is a little different. I would say there's a notable difference between letting someone die, and actively killing them. If I say "letting someone die is the same as killing them" then I'm on the hook for every time I don't give to charity, feed every homeless person I physically can, etc. Not giving someone a kidney is letting someone die, whereas getting an abortion entails actively killing someone.

[@cristianbancu2190]

I really thought she was 20 before she said she has been talking about it for 20 years

[@MyConfessions]

What an intelligent woman! Thank you for supporting life. ❤

[@bulletanarchy6447]

Why ?

[@kirancamp3356]

This video made me a complete pro- life person. I always had an internal dialogue where I could not answer the life threatening situations during pregnancy. Everywhere I tried to research it said abortion is the only way. Thankyou so much

[@bulletanarchy6447]

Which life threatening situations did you research ?

[@micheleboyer7082]

How did the early Christians handle confrontations about their religion (such as where Christians were hiding) undercover without putting other Christians at risk? Knowing that might give us clearer direction about handling similar, or undercover actions today.

[@theresafitzpatrick4627]

Wow!! So good!!!

[@codielane9787]

Oh my gosh, I love these two.

[@eswing2153]

Best of luck!

[@milenacodling2986]

this is what a strong woman looks like

[@21wishblue]

so good!!!

[@michaelmccullough1034]

I wonder what Ms. Gray's thoughts on who should be making the decisions around this. I'm a man who will never be in the situation of unintentionally fathering a child. I have my opinions on this as I have opinions on everything, but I don't think I should be in charge of the rules around it.

[@ievatamulionyte18]

@MattFradd please let me know what you think. Hey. Great interview. Just a couple of thoughts: 1) In the instance of attacking abortion doctors, doesn’t the doctrine of just war apply? Since it is a great injustice done to a certain part of the society, namely unborn children, it can be seen as a matter for war. Now we know that it is only justifiable to engage in violent acts towards others (not in concrete personal instances such as someone directly trying to harm your children) in an organised and planned manner is when all the other means have been tried and when there is a good chance of success. If we can look at it this way then really what we have to decide on is just have all the means been tried and if yes, then would we be successful in stopping abortion by using violence. I do not know what means have been taken, but one I can think of is just making the doctors life really uncomfortable by constantly reminding them of what they’re doing and fitting these actions within legal limits. This could either help them realise that what they’re doing is horrible or just find another job that wouldn’t cost them their comfort. 2) In the instance of lying to a nazi about hiding jews, doesn’t the principle of lesser evil apply? Lying seems to be a lesser evil than letting someone get killed. And the circumstances of lying seem to matter. If my only choice is between lying and potentially saving a life (especially knowing that you’re putting yourself at risk) then it seems that lying is a lesser evil. There are however situations where lying to save a life would be a greater evil that letting someone get killed. For example: apostasy, because the matter of lying seems to be greater than the actual good of saving a life.

[@annat4209]

@ievatamulionyte18 I think the short answer to both questions would be ‘the end doesn’t justify the means’ (CCC 1753). The just war theory doesn’t contradict this principle. This article sheds some light on the topic: www.ewtn.com/catholicism/library/can-the-killing-of-abortionists-be-justified-12095 Directly choosing to lie is always wrong, although it is a lesser evil than betrayal. There is a difference between doing an evil and tolerating it. We can choose a lesser evil without committing an evil act, for example when we are presented with only two different bills about abortion, we can vote for the less permissive one.

[@Mr24Acdcfreak]

An argument I would put forward with regard to the topic that occurs at 1:30:00 or so (Is violence against abortion doctors acceptable), is that no, it's never okay to harm the doctors because the death penalty is wrong.

[@HTtwentyten]

I feel like going to sleep and waking up to a world where there isn't any debate over abortion being a heinous and psychopathically selfish act. I just cannot seem to understand why pro-choicers would refer to an embryo as a simple 'clump of cells', no matter how clear it is that it is a HUMAN LIFE you are proposing to wilfully end. Very grateful for Stephanie and Matt, but I still feel that there's something missing and we're not getting through to the other side.

[@marieconstantia4441]

Notice how those that are “pro-choice” are not in favor of choice for other things.

[@ironymatt]

2:18:04 - on whether or not undercover work constitutes a breach of the commandment to not bear false witness, Matt is spot on with the definition of a lie from the Catechism, sec. 2482 - "A lie consists in speaking a falsehood with the intention of deceiving." As Matt and Stephanie correctly discussed, by this reading alone this could in principle mean that an undercover operation would be in violation of the commandment. Thankfully, the Catechism doesn't end there. In sec. 2483 - "To lie is to speak or act against the truth in order to lead someone into error." Safe to say that this further explication from the CCC justifies Matt and Stephanie's instincts about the legitimacy of such endeavors, seeing as the objective is to lead people out of error rather than into it.

[@Davi-sw8le]

Hi Matt, thanks for the quote. I was extremely intrigued by this part of the conversation. Could you please elaborate further as to how "undercover action" is justified by what you cited? I genuinely cannot find a logical link between the two things.

[@ironymatt]

@@Davi-sw8le were you asking me or Matt Fradd?

[@Davi-sw8le]

@@ironymatt I assumed your name was Matt lol... you

[@levaq8261]

Hi Matt. The end of the discussion you were both questioning whether one can go undercover or not as you were worried it would be considered deception. I recall in the bible, Jesus somewhat went undercover at one point as well. Please read the versus and see what you think. (John 7:8) -"Go up to the feast yourselves; I do not go up to this feast because My time has not yet fully come." (John 7:10) - "But when His brothers had gone up to the feast, then He Himself also went up, not publicly, but as it were, in secret

[@meganwarr6258]

For 2:29 on lying, consider Exodus 1: 15-21. The midwives lied to Pharaoh and were blessed by God for their actions. After reading “The Rational Bible: Exodus” by Dennis Prager where he discusses this, I think that we can be justified in lying under certain circumstances.

[@brendanflynn5004]

She’s very good at what she does!

[@Jessica-os8tc]

I would argue that the ends of speech isn't always truth, it can be narrative as well. If I told a fairytale, I'm not lying but it also isn't truth.

[@christinemartinovich6273]

Is there a shortened version of this that maybe cuts out the banter? I think there is some great content in here and I want to share however I’m afraid those with an opposing view will be turned away by a 2.5 hour long video

[@jeremysmith7176]

Check Matt's channel out. He has uploaded several clips that touch on specific topics.

[@Seethi_C]

Matt, is it true that her example of tubular/ectopic pregnancy is an example of Aquinas’ concept of double-effect?

[@ninjamaster3453]

Ectopic pregnancy is probably the only legit DNC allowed.

[@Catholicdragonslayer]

That is the position of most Catholic theologians/philosophers, yes. But it is not unanimous.

[@alexandremotkalyuk7184]

I loved this video

[@tm32156]

@Pints With Aquinas Summa Question 64, Article 3 might confirm your thoughts as to why we cannot use violence against abortionists

[@jamesponza]

I'm so ridiculously in love. With Stephanie.

[@bulletanarchy6447]

Pro Life: Not just desperate for an argument

[@mk14ist]

I'm still pro choice but this was a great conversation to listen to! It has widened my understanding of the pro life position, thanks for that Matt and Stephanie :)

[@mk14ist]

@M 2 parts, first I think it's better for society as fewer children will grow up rather unfavorable conditions. Second, I strongly believe in bodily autonomy and I don't think it's justified to force a woman to carry to term an unwanted, undesired pregnancy.

[@mk14ist]

@M well to start, I don't consider abortions murder as to me there is a negative moral connotation to murder that I don't relate to abortions. Second: yeah I do I think the mother carrying the child is the best arbiter about whether it's right that the fetus is born or not. The vast majorities of abortions are far before the third trimester but if some crazy events occurs, or a mother finds out really late she is pregnant, I still think she is the best arbiter. I don't think the state should limit the options of the mother in those rare circumstances. a waiting period and maybe even mandated conversation with a psychologist might be pretty beneficial to a mother so she doesn't make rash decisions she might regret later.

[@mk14ist]

@M how about you? I assume you are anti abortion? All nine months or only some period?

[@mk14ist]

@M ya me too! It's just that virtually everyone I know has the same opinion as me regarding abortion: that it's just and right for a society to allow women that option. So I have to resort to dialogue online wich is not always that amazing ;)

[@mk14ist]

@M regarding the scenario: that's pretty rare but I'll play along. I would say that it's a strange thing to do, my gut reaction is disgust. I would probably even say it's evil. My usual weigh is on one side the evil of not allowing a woman bodily autonom, on the other the sad fact that that feutus does not get to get a life is pretty clear: you can't take away a women's bodily autonomy, plus the downsides for a society of not having the option to abort are pretty large. In this specific case, that weigh in might land on the other end.

[@estudianteatareado]

14:48 I find interesting that here, in Latinoamerica, the focus of "pro-choice" people is different from U.S and Canada. I feel that here is about how thousand of women are dying in clandestine abortions, therefore, if we legalized abortion we are going to avoid those deads. Is about how pregnancy is going to make her life worst when is already bad.

[@annat4209]

It’s interesting. I believe there was a similar focus in the US before abortion was legalised. There was a claim (I think made up by Dr Bernard Nathanson who later became prolife and confessed the lie) that 100,000 women died every year from ‘unsafe’ abortions. The idea was to push their agenda. This argument is just an excuse to introduce abortion on demand. I think people who publicly make this argument are usually not that concerned about dying women but simply want legal abortion.

[@LuisSalazar-vu4jd]

I like Agustín Laje Arrigoni arguments about this subject.

[@lindenpeters2601]

Unfortunately, women have been dying in the US from legal abortions for decades. Clinics hire unlicensed doctors, instruments are not sterilized properly, they offer no recovery time. They are more interested in keeping their flow of patients going than doing things safely. The movie Gosnell covered the true story of a clinic like this. The doctor even admitted to killing newborns who survived botched abortions.

[@ivettevalle2270]

Amazing interview, learned a lot more about the pro-choice arguements and how to respond to them, will be playing this on repeat!

[@frankattanucci6748]

About the morality of "going undercover": You mentioned the Church's lack of a statement against "undercover cops." Two things to consider: (1) Policeman (as an agent of the state) has, presumably, been authorized to do such undercover investigative work. A private citizen (including journalists?) cannot, I would think, claim the same authority. (2) As to deception being a species of lying (which seemed to be your understanding), consider the use of decoys by the allies in WW II (e.g., fake tanks and planes). Surely that act of deception was not immoral. As a proposition: There are forms of deception that are not lying. Example: I may set out an array of balsawood "airplanes" along the side of an airstrip in the hope that the Germans (from a reconnaissance plane 15,000 feet overhead) think they are real, but I do not tell them that they are fake... I let them reach that false conclusion on their own. By the way, the episode was outstanding! Stephanie Gray is doing the Lord's work!

[@ellaclark7185]

I listen to your podcast and you look nothing like I thought you looked based on your voice!

[@bernardmathias2017]

why doesn't this have >1M of views!

[@MarioRossi-sh4uk]

3 or 4 views are due to me only. People don't like to think, reason and act rationally. People like to either obey or give order. Do what I say or do what I told you. No reasoning, no understanding, no debates, no counter arguments.

[@bulletanarchy6447]

@@MarioRossi-sh4uk It's just pro life BS, misrepresenting a professor's argument. It doesn't deserve a million views

[@dylanrunner2001]

She reminds me of Nina from Sprout.

[@mkmarak]

It seems to me like Matt and Stephanie steelman pro-abortion arguments way more better than actual pro-aborts. And wow that uterus argument was ingenious. Whereas I, on the other hand, just had a little debate with someone that said egg cells belong to the sentient species just much as embryos because they're both non-sentient.🤦🏻‍♂️ His conclusion: pro-life position is dumb.

[@JerryStanaway]

Lying is always wrong, taking a human life is always wrong. We are called to be absolutists.

[@curiotrope]

Stephanie Gray talks about "the clock", where if abortion is banned at 6-months, then the clock started when something significant happens. That "clock" she is referring to actually starts at ovulation--BEFORE sperm ever even meets egg! While there may not be great consensus on when life begins, we KNOW it doesn't begin BEFORE conception, or "when the clock starts" on pregnancy.

[@suew4609]

We can’t predict with absolute accuracy when a life will be conceived, even if we know that having had intercourse it is possible that we conceived. She is actually saying that life begins, as far as we scientifically know, at conception. But, there is also the Scripture in Jeremiah that tells us something different, or does it? “The word of the LORD came to me: Before I formed you in the womb I knew you, before you were born I dedicated you, a prophet to the nations I appointed you.” (Jeremiah 1:4-5) So, if God knew us before we were born, did we actually exist before conception?

[@RJSearson12345]

On what she said about anti-abortion violence not causing a decrease, I'm not sure that's entirely true. It's difficult to tell, of course, but according to one document I found, abortions in the United States decreased by 25% and providers by 40% during the 70s and 80s, coinciding with sharp increases in anti-abortion violence, particularly from the Army of God. This source does also mention that it's basically impossible to tell to what degree this is a cause-and-effect relationship. But I thought I'd put in my two cents, since she seems to dismiss that as certain so easily.

[@michaelmccullough1034]

I think the more elegant summary to the lying question in this context is you are lying to save life. I still dont think lying to a health care provider is effective because I've potentially taken an appointment from someone who legitimately needs it.

[@lindenpeters2601]

Let's not conflate abortion clinics with necessary care and their consultants with healthcare providers.

[@michaelmccullough1034]

@@lindenpeters2601 but that's the issue, it's not always clear cut nor is there always time to mull over the matter. The decision to terminate a pregnancy must be left to the pregnant person. If The Pope himself told someone it was okay to get an abortion, and they didn't want to, I'd say we'd have to respect their decision just as much in the reverse situation.

[@suew4609]

@@michaelmccullough1034A human person dying is always the result of an abortion. God says, “You shall not kill,” which is more correctly translated as, “You shall not murder.” Aborting a child is murdering it. That includes an unborn baby. It’s a sin that separates you from God, one that can send you to hell if you don’t repent. Jeremiah 1:4-5 tells us, “The word of the LORD came to me: Before I formed you in the womb I knew you, before you were born I dedicated you…” God knows you before you are born. That’s how important a life is to him. We need to respect all life, from conception to natural death

[@michaelmccullough1034]

@@suew4609 abortion is a procedure. A procedure I imagine you can find a context (such as the ones in this video) where it is necessary. The decision must be left ultimately with the person experiencing the pregnancy.

[@rep3e4]

I am very PRO Life, great video

[@AD-wt1vu]

God bless you as you counter state indoctrination of our youth.

[@bulletanarchy6447]

Like what ?

[@devinmurphy6575]

I am always so scared to support pro life, not because I don’t believe it, but because of the judgement I’ve SEEN from pro-choice people, I don’t want to lose friends just because of a stance on a political subject I might never even encounter. It’s very frustrating because I feel like the pro-life argument is so much stronger than pro-choice gives it credit for

[@erodgers19]

Have courage. It’s more than just a political subject. It’s about the morality of the world we are all creating together. None of us is exempt. It is indeed scary, and that’s why it’s right.

[@daleiverson6822]

I agree with everything that was said except for one thing: If you have a kidney and you can afford to be without it, you're morally obligated to give it (depending on who the person is).

[@lindenpeters2601]

If that's true, then wouldn't a mother's moral obligation be even stronger when it comes to her own child?

[@suew4609]

I don’t believe that is Church teaching. You aren’t required to do possible harm to yourself to save someone else. It would be heroically virtuous to do so, though. I found this on Catholic organ donation: For living donors, the following must be considered: · The recipient's need must be serious with no other treatment options. · The benefit to the recipient must be proportionate to the risk taken by the donor. · There must be free, informed consent from the donor, without coercion. The act of love, which is expressed with the gift of one's own vital organs, is a genuine testament of charity that knows how to look beyond death so that life always wins. The recipient should be aware of the value of this gesture that one receives, of a gift that goes beyond the therapeutic benefit. What they receive is a testament of love, and it should give rise to a response equally generous, and in this way grows the culture of gift and gratitude. Pope Benedict XVI, November 2008 (From his Address to Participants at a Conference entitled, "A Gift for Life. Considerations on Organ Donation.)

[@kayest.claire932]

I'm afraid I don't understand the violinist argument at all. It would be more accurate to say that the woman was shown the violinist, told that if she connected herself to the violinist there would be a fifty fifty chance of her needing to be life support for the violinist for 9 months. So the woman agrees, connects herself, is surprised when the violinist needs her to live, hires someone to stab the violinist, and then walks away washing her hands of the whole situation. Not a good pro-choice argument, but way more accurate to any non-rape situation.

[@aletheiaquest]

Although I think Stephanie is phenomenal in the battle for the Pro Life position, I was a bit surprised to hear her say she doesn't support the death penalty; God did.

[@bulletanarchy6447]

Fiction

[@leadimentoobrien1221]

[@bulletanarchy6447]

?

[@aaronmilavec1579]

Stephanie Gray is a persuasive speaker and sensitive human being, but she does have her blind spots. Let’s face it, women having abortions are easily silenced. As long as the bishops continue to believe that abortion is the greatest (and maybe even the only) crime against the unborn, then they can be assured that they have the moral high ground and that their hands are clean. After all, no bishop will ever be accused of having an abortion. Yet, the soft spots of this position will eventually show through. If the bishops want Catholics in public office to bring their faith to bear upon public life (NCR 5/23/03), then the bishops would appear to be asking public officials to persuade the people in an arena where the bishops themselves have not been particularly successful. In the 1988 Guttmacher Institute survey of ten thousand abortion patients, for example, among the 37% who declared a religious affiliation, Roman Catholic women had the highest rate of abortions. This is very revealing, and one would think that (if nothing else) the bishops would want to examine their own house: (a) Why does the church with the most absolutist position show the most dismal record when it comes to compliance? (b) How is it that Catholic women choosing to have an abortion continue to identify themselves as Catholic? (c) If bishops have been so ineffective in persuading their own people, what line of argumentation do they suppose politicians might employ that would guarantee their success? Maybe persuasion, however, is not what the bishops really have in mind. Maybe they want Catholics in public office to canvas support for legislation that would limit (maybe even outlaw) abortions. At this point, the bishops need to decide whether they really want to establish a political “moral majority” destined to impose its will on an “immoral minority.” Bishops also need to decide whether they want legislators to champion a “no exceptions” stance such that abortions would be criminalized even in the case of rape or incest. Anytime that a bishop begins to attack a public official regarding his/her abortion policy, therefore, the politician might do well to soften this attack by asking the bishop some very simple and very direct questions about whether “persuasion” or “legislation” should be the focus and whether the final goal is to criminalize every abortion, everywhere-no exceptions.[21] Then, both bishops and politicians will at least come to grips with the complexity and the messiness of regulating public morality. The long-awaited dialogue may then finally begin.[22]

[@vitalianchristopherenapone]

This is absolutely intellectual intercourse.