Why Is Israel Such a Loaded Subject?

[@Emilio1985]

It is weird how we've ended up in a situation where condemning ethnic cleansing is at all used as evidence of supporting a different kind of ethnic cleansing.

[@trekkin_fpv5272]

That's sort of assume we should try to intervene, which we have throughout history to very mixed results. Frankly I don't know if we can make the situation better or worse.

[@USSAnimeNCC-]

No shite I knew mainstream mother faqer where going to be bias to isreal

[@Lilitha11]

​@@trekkin_fpv5272In this case, I think the best way to 'intervene' would just be publicly condemning the actions. We definitely shouldn't be taking any sort of military action against either group, since that would make things way worse.

[@laurat7232]

I would not call what Israel is doing "ethnic cleansing", but I'm curious, if you were in charge of Israel, how would you handle Hamas' crimes?

[@alansmithee419]

@@Lilitha11 We should also try to get aid to the citizens if at all possible.

[@Wordfishtrombone]

Living in America has taught me that it’s possible to simultaneously deeply criticize a nation’s government and love its people

[@Freshie207]

That I think is another reason for the silence. Many compared the initial attack to 9/11, and plenty called it Israel's 9/11. Well it must be said the United States, the Anglosphere, and much of European response to 9/11 was also "heavy handed". I'm not sure society is quite ready to contend with how many people called for full on genocides in response to that tragedy, and these current events hit a little close to home in that regard.

[@GreatBigBore]

The ruling class is THE problem, around the world

[@bishop51807]

@@Freshie207 OR, politicians don't give a sh*t about their own people let alone those in the middle east. Follow the money, the Israeli government are known for heavy lobbying and making contributions to political campaigns in the US. Power attracts the sociopaths in our population, they wont care unless we make them.

[@allanolley4874]

"I blame the Nazis." Steve making those brave controversial calls that others shrink from, this is why I watch this channel.

[@andygross6634]

The same nazis that the Grand Mufti of Jerusalem met with and offered to set up death camps.

[@amberhide04]

what a hero to speak out about this

[@tonykaze]

it's clearly satire, for those of you who didn't notice this (which is odd considering satire is the primary format of this entire channel)

[@theinternetisameme]

We really don't deserve him at all!

[@naterod]

He’s quickly becoming my favorite leftist on KZbin.

[@TalLikesThat]

Thank you. I’m an an Israeli Jew, and also a leftist, who thinks the horrendous killing of Palestinian civilians should be stopped and condemned. This subject is rarely discussed with any nuance, but this video (as the rest of your content, I’ve been a subscriber for a while) is nuanced, thoughtful, opinionated and respectful. Thank you, Steve. I wish us all peace and freedom soon, as well as a better fucking leadership (our current government is so blatantly racist, corrupt and dishonest, it’s appalling. I’m honestly afraid right now, for the Palestinian people as well as for the Jewish people of Israel. I do not want to see us massacred again, AND it would be unforgivable if we become as cruel and murdreous as the n@tzis. I am so angry and frustrated and sad right now. Sorry for ranting, I just want to live in peace with my fellow humans - Palestinians and Jews alike. We don’t need more suffering in the world.

[@AlertROFL]

GET OUT OF ISRAEL, they can arrest you for making this comment

[@ceylonmooney]

shalom my brother! i appreciate your sayin this, and if ur in the struggle or helpin as best u can, keep up the good work. u got friends and suporters here my brother. some of us are still at it, were tryin.

[@thespecialist3608]

Absolutely agree with you. The actions of a terrorist group do not justify the punishment of innocents on both sides, no exceptions. Hamas may have started this terrible bloodshed, but I cannot in any faith support Israel’s offensive response as an “eye for an eye” turned up to eleven against Gaza.

[@keirfarnum6811]

Beautifully stated. Unfortunately the Bibi government has done everything possible to push Hamas to this attack. While it’s horrible of Hamas to have attacked and no one should ever condone such actions, it’s hard not to recognize that the Bibi government has helped create the situation that led to the attack and it’s obvious the government wanted it as a pretext to kill the Palestinians; the vast majority of whom have nothing to do with Hamas. They helped create an enemy to have an excuse to go to war.

[@psi0nics956]

Wishing the best possible outcome. Coming in as a Filipino and a leftist, real far away from all of this, but among leftist circles I've heard this be discussed as a sort of litmus test for liberation politics. From what I understand, I see fascism in Israel, and it just happens to come from a majority Jewish state, led by fascistic authorities. If it means anything from this side of the world where I can provide little material help apart from what can be reached out, I'm hoping that these horrendous violent acts come to an end and the states themselves come together in peace. No one deserves a massacre. Stay safe Happy to see people like you, praying for the ideal outcome

[@Katherine_The_Okay]

As a Jewish person who had more than one grandparent die during the Holocaust, Israel is so far out of line, and it infuriates me that people think criticizing a COUNTRY is akin to being bigoted against a race. Saying Israel has done and is doing some really messed up shit isn't antisemitic any more than saying Nazis suck is anti-German. (I know firsthand what antisemitism looks and feels like, believe you me.) This whole situation over there right now breaks my heart. Innocent people always suffer when the powerful treat them like pieces on a chess board and the important thing is not deciding who's in the right or who's in the wrong (because in the real world, it's never that simple). The important thing is finding a way to end this and to help all those suffering because of it. That's true in Gaza, it's true in Ukraine, and it's true everywhere in the world. People need to stop taking sides and start looking for practical solutions.

[@ceylonmooney]

the atrocities done to your family sicken and anger me. the atrocities done to the people of palestine sicken and anger me. but your speakin up hits a soft spot in me heart and brings a visit of sanity to my head, my sister.

[@Vinny_Havoc]

"Never again" should and does apply to all.

[@JM1993951]

Israel has been disrespecting and exploiting the memory of holocaust victims for a long, long time now.

[@TheFiddleFaddle]

It's equated with antisemitism because we have very powerful groups like AIPAC who cast _all_ criticism of Israel as antisemitic, so politicians and media groups are pressured into saying nothing.

[@mansoorhameed7075]

Palestinians are semites. Arguably more semite than most modern day israelis. The state of israel exists through the continued genocide and ethnic cleansing of Palestinians. Modern day israel is the most antisemitic country in existence today.

[@dramirezg70]

As a Sephardic Jew, I approve of this message. You nailed it!

[@Canoby]

I'm just glad that people are waking up to this, including a vocal (yet sadly small) minority of Israelis making these exact same points.

[@pjgoldstein6562]

As an Ashkenazi, I concur.

[@laurat7232]

So what should Israel do?

[@S3004-k7e]

Pull back to. the 1948 UN borders. @@laurat7232

[@veganmonter]

When I talk about the current situation, I take great pains to ensure I couch the problems as, "The far-right Israeli government", or "The government of Israel." Of course, those who don't want to argue in good faith will try to imply I mean all Israelis despite my very careful wording.

[@rudeboyjohn3483]

​@@TheRatsintheWallsright wingers can't agree on definitions to common words. Geopolitical nuance is gonna fly right by them

[@KaiHenningsen]

@@TheRatsintheWallsHard but, as history shows, not impossible - especially as it has, on occasion, been correct. Bigots sometimes use a group's name to hide they're actually meaning a larger group. That is the real problem, here: all those condemnations of bigotry, while useful to some as a conversation stopper, have legitimate applications. Sometimes, the people accused of bigotry actually are bigots. Sometimes, they're not. That's what makes the tactic so effective. And what makes some people believe critics actually are always bigots.

[@MorbidEel]

That always comes across as a disingenuous "covering your ass" statement. Especially when it is referring to countries that are supposed to be democracies and the government was elected by its citizens.

[@uvp5000]

One vexing issue with identifying "The government of Israel" as "the problem" is that a dominant Israeli Jewish electorate voted enough of them in. It is not just the government. I heard one commentator articulate that the Israeli electorate should rise up against Netanyahu. Why would they do so? A majority of Israelis voted him in. There is a far larger problem than just "The government of Israel".

[@chrisclee6693]

Currently yes, but the opposition party hasn't exactly been friendly to the people of Palestine and have made no real effort to stop the illegal settlements in the West Bank.

[@jdmodels1968]

Couldn't agree with you more. I'm in the UK and it's the same here, you can't say a thing about the state of Israel without being accused of being an anti-semite. Likewise, it appears that you can no longer give support to the Palestinian people without being accused of being a supporter of Hamas.

[@kingbeauregard]

"I'm in the UK and it's the same here, you can't say a thing about the state of Israel without being accused of being an anti-semite." Really? I've always found it very easy. I just avoided anti-Semitism.

[@alansmithee419]

Wasn't there a massive march recently in support of the palestinian people? And then a much smaller one in support of Israel?

[@HouseCatTV]

Then perhaps you haven't encountered the many people who weaponise such accusations to silence opposition to Israeli state actions

[@paulhammond6978]

@@alansmithee419 Yes, and the response to the march included the Home Secretary calling in the police to say that they disapproved of how the police handled that protest in the face of reports in the media that people had been shouting "jihad" at that protest. The government and mainstream media in the UK are certainly pushing the line that support for Israel must be uncompromising, and that everyone who expresses support for Palestine or Gaza must be made to swear over and over that Hamas are a bunch of evil terrorists. The pitch is clearly biassed in this country.

[@lenroddis5933]

@@kingbeauregard "I just avoided anti-Semitism" so it's not OK to criticise the Israeli government? Maybe you and I don't agree on what that word means. From gov.uk: "However, criticism of Israel similar to that leveled against any other country cannot be regarded as antisemitic"

[@Jakeurb8ty82]

Im 40 - i only learned about the Nakba this month yet I've heard over and over throughout my life about the yom kippur and six day wars.

[@arisspenjian1220]

Great video. I’m finding that Americans are so used to political narratives with a “good side” vs. a “bad side” given our history, that we struggle to process a foreign conflict between two bad sides.

[@lukedogwalker]

Less the history (which is just as full of competing factions as anyone else's) and more the way that history is fictionalised into a feel-good narrative. The consequences of this include the people who claim to be experts on Iran, yet are incapable of acknowledging that Iran is not a monolithic state, but a collection of at least three major power blocs which sometimes cooperate, but more often compete, with each other. These people are often involved in setting policy... 'nuff said.

[@KrustyKlown]

nailed it.

[@MsQueenOfDance]

I blame the United States military. They pump funding into multi-million dollar media projects like Marvel movies and Call Of Duty to help reinforce the idea that you can always have a good side and a bad side. I think everyone who enjoys military shooter games ought to play Spec Ops the Line and see if they still feel like a hero.

[@heikkisuominen]

There is a good and a bad side here. The palestinias are the good side and Israel is the bad side. It is very clear cut.

[@Valiguss]

@@lukedogwalkerthe way the narrative is in the us is fundamentally good vs evil, you’ll see this with things like the wars vs the Native Americans. At first it was good vs veil because we were “civilized” And as soon as that was questioned our side immediately became evil and imperialist. There was never a point where the topic was nuanced. It used to be just about feel good but with more criticism it has morphed in absolutist narratives where America is always the right and just emblem of democracy or an evil imperialist hegemon

[@Kwstr42]

getting major Mr Rogers vibes with the changing clothes on camera and the "come sit down and talk about it" feel lol

[@JonathanMacArthur]

Thanks!

[@fonkenful]

An absolute masterpiece of rational objective analysis.

[@superamario6464]

This has to be the most sanest comments section ive read on recent events. Thank you to all who wrote. Live long and prosper

[@firefly4f4]

I know I have Jewish friends who honestly consider any criticism of the state of Israel to be anti-Semitic. I just cannot wrap my head around that reasoning.

[@eternalcanadiandevyt]

It's like people who consider any acknowledgment of systemic racism on the part of white people as "anti-white."

[@jean6122]

it’s like saying it’s racist to criticize china. while it’s not inherently racist to do so there’s a lot of people who use “criticism” to try and cover their sinophobia (anti chinese sentiment). but on the other hand, calling ANY criticism of china (or israel in this case) bigoted cheapens actual bigotry toward either group. by doing this, it can nations states & governments a free pass to avoid legitimate criticism.

[@tanterouge]

It's not an exclusively Israelic thing. Nationalist thought emerged in the late 1800's as a culture of fusing ethnicity and the state to become one and the same. It's just Israelic nationalism, in other words. Just like in all other cultures, you have adherents to nationalism ranging from far right groups (and there has been and still are several far right Israeli and proto-Israeli far right groups (even far right terrorist groups)) to your everyday liberal who hasn't really questioned that.

[@Newton-Reuther]

The conflation of Israel and the Jewish people is reductive and only serves the goals of anti-Semitism

[@yennefer440]

Wonder what they think of the orthodox jews who oppose Israel. Are they antisemitic too 😂

[@haqitman]

I had to explain this to some Palestinian friends that, as an American, I can't say anything negative about Israel w/o sounding anti semitic, even when Israel is clearly being way too heavy handed.

[@MrRasta2k]

@@eladnoy2547 its not a neigbouring state, they see your state as theirs, they see you guys as thieves. They know when Israel is recognized, they also recognize the new boarders. In every other part of this world, this would be called a fight for freedom. Its hard to see the other sides narrativ but if you dont want to kill every last one of them and want to see the world burn you have to, at least, try to understand the other side. And believe me, its incredibly easy. Read some Uri Avnery

[@lostbutfreesoul]

@@eladnoy2547 Thank you for proving Haqitman's point. To answer your question: Understand the Context of the situation, and what the enemy may be attempting to provoke. Return my borders to the strong state they where in that prevented such attacks, Israel turned their back to this threat which opened a window for attack, and take the higher ground. Then I would put a lot more pressure on all the allies I had been making in the region, further choking off Hamas via Sieges. This tactic had been working, look at Egypt's support and what Saudi was thinking about doing, so why throw that potential away with a tantrum? Behind the scenes, well... lets say there is a reason I don't do politics. Lot of people would die by my order but it wouldn't be all over the news. The fact you came here to post 'might is right' ideocracy without realizing that Israel has surgical options available. Must I now wonder what your intent for posting actually was, if you knew this option was available before hand and simply chose to play the part. To find someone who disagrees with Israel taking the route which causes more bloodshed of innocence over the more difficult game of diplomacy, and make a scene.... How genuine an answer did you expect?

[@Johnson333552]

@@eladnoy2547 Genocide isn't the answer. Your government thinks it is and you need to take a long, hard look at how you're able to justify that to yourself.

[@bartolomeothesatyr]

Hamas isn't a state, it's a pack of criminal extremists hiding behind the bodies of innocent countrymen, women, and children; the sole reason Hamas commands any support at all among the Gazan civilian population is that they have been actively oppressed by the apartheid colonization and settlement policies of the Netanyahu and preceding Israeli governments for much of the last century. Ethnic and sectarian violence generates a negative feedback loop leading to more ethnic and sectarian violence.

[@itsOasus]

It's also important to note imo that this isn't the first time a disproportionate response has happened in that region... It's just getting worse... People are dying.... And yet most people are choosing to not care about Innocents on one side of the issue...

[@robertt9342]

Can you describe what you would describe what a proportionate response is in you mind? Would that make it an eye for an eye for you? And this before we take into the brutality and violence of the original attack by Hamas. I am not too ready to start cheering on the idea of “proportionate” when dealing with the treatment of civilians.

[@VelaiciaCreator]

@@robertt9342 Willy pete sky sprinkles is a VERY clear overreach. They not only had other options, but were literally being talked out of it as they planned it. There is zero excuse to drop white phosphorus over any residential zone, period. Much less prior to full evac, which was hampered by them cutting the things that would spread that info. Internet, power.

[@teresahalliday3680]

@robertt9342 An eye for an eye is an inappropriate comparison. The military power of Israel is being used against Palestinians (not to be confused with Hamas) who are being told to evacuate in a situation that is close to impossible. I think the current right wing Israeli government has a lot to answer for going back several years. Once Gaza is leveled, will Palestinians be allowed back? Or will this be Bibi's chance to build more settlements? Don't accuse me of anti-semitism because what Hamas has done to innocent Israelis is horrific. But life has been difficult for Palestinians for years!

[@itsOasus]

@@robertt9342 oh gee idk, maybe something that doesn't involve innocent civilians? maybe? jesus dude

[@bendovbloch7630]

@@robertt9342 the thing is, all the hostages are still not being released. Technically the attack of hamas is not over yet, nobody knows what happens to the hostages. Are they raped? Were some executed? Are they alive? This is not a response by the state of Israel, this is an angry country who wants their citizens back and sound. Why hamas aren't releasing them anyway? Don't they care that Israel will keep bomb until the hostages are free?

[@paineoftheworld]

Kelly's Heros reference! +1 Added: almost perfect satire. The closing should have been, "I blame the British."

[@grahamrskelly6042]

"Its not complicated" -Michele Brooks layfeyett college 2017

[@Thousandaire-n7o]

Apparently, Steve is the only one who "gets it". Everybody else just takes one side or the other.... like 100%. Thanks, Steve, for doing my argument for me!!

[@foxesofautumn]

This was the conclusion I drew, too. In Australia it’s a little less cut and dried. The crimes against Palestine have been talked about but you can sense an unease to criticise the Israeli leadership. People are afraid of being seen as antisemitic and Benji knows it. He leans into it while he approves atrocious acts against soft targets. Netanyahu should be in a UN court charged with war crimes. Not because he’s Jewish but because he’s being monstrous and he’s shattering the Geneva Convention.

[@simonmacomber7466]

There was a movie I saw once. I can't remember the title. But it has a Jewish character, a survivor of the Holocaust, and an original settler of Israel, talking to an American, a WWII soldier who discovered and liberated one of the death camps. In this scene the Israeli says to the American, (and I'm paraphrasing here) "When you Americans hear the phrase 'Never again,' you seem to assume that we Israelis mean that 'Never again will we allow humans to commit any genocide in the future.' But that is not what we mean. When we say 'Never again,' we mean that 'Never again will the Jewish people suffer an attempt at genocide of our people, no matter the cost, up to and including committing a genocide of our own to prevent it.'" I wish I could remember the name of that movie. I also remember an Jewish American politician who pointed out that _any_ criticism of the State of Israel, it's government, or any of the politicians of that nation, is _automatically,_ and entirely antisemitic. When pushed by the person interviewing with the fact that some of the loudest criticism of the State of Israel comes from Jewish Americans, this politician followed up with, "There are no people more antisemitic than my fellow Jews. It's an inherent part of Jewish culture."

[@apeman505]

my honest opinion is that, as a nation where 9/11 is still fresh in our memories despite having happened over a decade ago, many people in the United States are hesitant to have the slightest appearance of siding with or being soft on terrorism.

[@PatGilliland]

From what I've seen in media outside out of the US, the initial Hamas attack has long since been forgotten.

[@edkinghorn5500]

Great video.. I tried explaining this to my wife when she couldn't understand why I wasn't all in on vocally supporting Israel. There have been, and continues continue to be, atrocities commited on both sides. I think you also have to consider the Christian mindset. For a large number of people, particularly Evangelicals, Israel as a state MUST exist. It is essentially a biblical mandate that the nation of Israel must be our allies, even if those same people harbor deeply antisemitic beliefs as a whole.

[@tonoornottono]

it’s not about ally ship, it’s literally about sacrificing the jewish state to bring about the end times and resurrect jesus. it’s a doomsday prophecy.

[@romulino]

But it's also good to remember that even though there's atrocities going on for both sides, the Palestinians are being massacred for decades, basically going through state sanctioned apartheid and genocide by Israel.

[@antgrantrant]

And governmentally, Israel is a strategic military location in the Middle East for the USA. I believe that's part of why our government won't stop funding Israel any time soon.

[@robertt9342]

@@romulino… there’s a lot of that to go around in the region, it doesn’t make it better, but it’s not really any better than the Fox News position, just the opposite side.

[@Canoby]

I've always felt it utterly shitty how evangelical types are happy to use Israelis as their spiritual Red Shirt (recall this is also a Star Trek channel) cannon fodder to bring about the End Times.

[@spikeoramathon]

Thank you for saying what needs to be said, and for being one of the few adults in the room. To quote the great lesbian philosopher/ songwriter Holly Near: Why do we kill people who are killing people to show that killing people is wrong?

[@samcarlson9625]

I grew up in Worcester Ma, a diverse city with many ethnic neighborhoods. I was friends with lots of Jewish kids growing up, my best friend for years, several girlfriends. I am close friends with several Jewish people today. That said, it doesn't make me an antisemite to disagree with the decisions of the Israeli government. Tragedy is still tragic, any innocent lives taken is an immeasurable loss.

[@JoeJohnston-taskboy]

This should be a nice, quiet comment section today, Steve. Cheers.

[@CaptainAndy]

I think you’re being a bit generous here. The western world has all sorts of business ties with Israel which it doesn’t want to screw up. That’s far more their motivation than worrying about appearing anti Semitic. Further, fear of being seen as anti Semitic should not stop one loudly and proudly opposing the genocide of Palestinians in the same way fear of being seen as misogynistic should not stop one loudly and proudly opposing TERFs. Doing the right thing isn’t about how it makes you look, it’s about doing the right thing. Issues like the genocide of Palestinians really separate the wheat from the chaff in this regard. It’s also important to note that the land that was given to the Jews as reparations for the Holocaust was given them by white European nations, and it was not there’s to give as there were already Palestinians living there, and from the moment their land (it’s called Palestine) was given over to somebody else they have been violently displaced. The Palestinians refer to this as Nakba. It’s a massive act of ethnic cleansing that will ultimately result in genocide. October 7th is a lot like 9/11 in that it’s been framed by the mainstream media as an incident that has come out of nowhere rather than the latest in a long line of hostility that has been going on for years and is being used as an excuse to commit atrocity, largely motivated by western self interest.

[@hueypautonoman]

So many of the issues in the world can be traced back to white supremacy, and, as much as it pains me as an American to say this, have their roots in American history. It was American "scholars" who created the concept of race (as we know it), racial hierarchies and scientific racism, mainly to justify the trans-Atlantic slave trade. Nazis and numerous other white supremacist groups around the world learned their ideologies and tactics from America. Even when Jews were looking for places to find refuge during WWI, Americans were like, "Nope, don't even think about coming here." So, frankly, I blame the United States.

[@TeLLeK]

Some good points made but I would also say the unwavering support is driven by certain popular religions in the world. For example Christians feel like they are going against their God and faith if they don't show support of Israel.

[@OG_Agrivar]

Thank you for being brave enough to spell out this fairly basic truth.

[@redangelsophiasvideoproduc92]

I watched this video - and a lot of what you say is so right!! I was once accused of antisemitism because of voicing my opposition to Trump. Yes, that same Trump who when Nazis were marching in Charlotsville said that there were good people on both sides. What was my accusers convoluted logic? Trump is a supporter of Netanyahu, and my accuser claimed that criticism of Netanyahu makes me anti-Israel. Where was my accuser wrong? Simple. I believe that Netanyahu is bad for Israel just as Trump is for America. So the question is - how does one condemn Israel’s actions in the current conflict without coming off as antisemitic? (Or at least without coming off as antisemitic to anyone who isn’t determined to throw that label wily-nilly at every critic of Likud?) Simple. When you condemn Israel’s actions, be very clear and articulate about what you feel Israel ought to have done instead. Why is this important? After all - in _other_ times nobody makes it your responsibility to say what someone should be doing instead when condemning something that they have done. Here is why it is crucial here. Hamas has gotten _very_ good at hiding among civilians for the _very_ purpose of preventing anyone from attacking them without causing collateral damage to said civilians. So what you want to avoid coming across as is someone who feels that because Hamas has human shields, that obligates Israel to just sit on its hands and allow Hamas to prepare for another attack just like the one in October, or even worse.

[@KariIzumi1]

Not so fun fact: the IDF has started bombing Gaza with white phosphate, a substance that is illegal to use because it can and will ignite even within the body when it reacts with oxygen, which causes 4th and 5th degree burns....which I didn't even know was a thing until an hour ago. Israel's reaction is so beyond the pale, but it's far from the first time they're gone after Gaza, nor even the first genocide they've committed with the US's blessing (see also: the Mayan genocide in Guatemala in the late 60s) And thank you for pointing out that Zionists are the Jewish equivalent to Evangelical Christians, who certainly do not speak for all or even most Jews. For every video I see of a frum girl crying about fearing HAMAS attacks from her dorm room at NYU, I see dozens of protests in solidarity, including ones during the recent High Holidays. I'm glad to see the Gen Z and older Alphas learned the lessons we didn't with 9/11 and aren't buying the propaganda that Israel is blameless.

[@mhyzon1]

Thank you Steve. As a Lefty American Jew who thinks both Israel and Palestine has a right to exist, but doesn’t agree with the current or recent Israeli government, it’s been really hard. Antisemetic tropes and phrases are so ingrained in western culture, it’s just depressing. And I know you’re being intentionally facile to blame the Nazis; it’s been around for millennia. But yeah, fuck Nazis and antisemites. And fuck Islamophobes, fuck those who use violence and provoke the “other side” into violence just to maintain their own selfish grip on political power.

[@mattrobinson47]

It’s encouraging to hear commentators discuss the issues in that part of the world. There’s a WHOLE lot of irate, opinionated shriekers in the youtube-sphere, and believe me, I’ve heard them

[@michaelcherry8952]

This is perhaps the most succinct and honest take on the whole situation I've heard thus far. Two things always come to my mind when I think about this situation. One is a line from "For What It's Worth" by The Buffalo Springfield: "Nobody's right if everybody's wrong" The second is what my Mum always told myself and my five brothers and sisters when we were young: "Two wrongs don't make a right" If (and it's a big IF) both sides can get past the never-ending victim mentality, then some progress might be made. I have my doubts. Too many people inside the conflict zone and outside of it get their rocks off by blindly supporting one side or the other and playing the victim. Also, way too many people are benefiting monetarily by feeding the fire. "Follow the money" and you'll find people who definitely want things to remain chaotic. "Man's inhumanity to man Makes countless thousands mourn" -Robert Burns

[@doggodoggo3000]

Little Joels statement immediately after the attack and his amy shumer video are probably my picks. "I would like to grieve for the 1300 Israelis who were killed. I think their deaths were pointless and sad. and I hate thinking about them. but I can't. I can't grieve. not really. neither can you? how can we grieve the death of 1300 Jews when they are used as a justification to destroy a people? how can we grieve when Israel has ordered the evacuation of North Gaza, 1.1 million people, an act which will have devastating consequences? which according to the Red Cross is illegal under international law. how can we grieve when Netanyahu supported Hamas and saw them as an important instrument in the division of Palestine? how can we grieve when so many Palestinians have been killed before? pointlessly. tragically. no. in its apartheid and its cruelty Israel has taken away even grief. and what a great tragedy that is."

[@KaiHenningsen]

It's already happened. Then an Israeli extremist killed the Israeli prime minister. It's not just the money; it's also the extremists on both sides with a cult-like structure that *want* the conflict to continue because that is how they get supporters. In that context, money is just a means to continue the fight. I think it's still an open question which side controls the other, here. Or maybe it's that control shifts back and forth between the two forces in an unending internal struggle.

[@bendovbloch7630]

two wrongs don't make a right but that's the meaning of justice. Somebody does something wrong to society and society punishes and removes some of the individual freedom (depends on the severity of the crime/s commited accordint to each nation's laws). A nation has to protect its citizens from crime but it also must bring justice when the crime has been commited, every nation has that promise to its citizens. That is what happens rountinely. But what happens when 2 nations are at war? Now the nation has even more responsibility towards its citizens, in the matters of life and death. It has to protect its citizens, and sometimes, however sad it is, the best way to protect is also attack the enemy. Now we must remember that the world isn't just ideology, there are evil men in the world, there is corruption, there are lies and uncovered truths, there is an origin to some problems, not everything is the chicken and egg dilemma, the world isn't just philosphy and ideology. Its always easy to just follow general rules and quotes, never making a decision, but digging deeper, reading, forming our own opinions and base of conclusions and our view of bad and wrong given the deep evidence we gathered, is the harder part and the more righteous path

[@LaktostheIntolerant]

I'm getting weird flashbacks to our own horrible response to a terrorist attack. I feel really bad for the people having to suffer from piss poor leadership and am in direct solidarity with both Israeli and Palestinian citizens. This nonsense has to end now.

[@matthewsullivan9982]

Well said. I like the Mr. Rogers nod too😂😂

[@Zuginator]

Also WHY do people say "They were granted a homeland" it's NOT like people lived there already! Land was *stolen* for them.

[@georginatoland]

My husband graduated from Brandeis. We skipped the reunion this year.

[@bencoomer2000]

I'm on the side of civilians not being bombed, Everything else is secondary to me. Still gets me called pro-Hamas or pro-IDF even though by definition, I'm against that.

[@victorhart5198]

Thank you Steve for this video and the one you released just before it.

[@seawurm]

Thank you for giving us a reasonable explanation, that I can show to children who ask about this subject.

[@SoundAuthor]

Very well articulated. This subject is a difficult one to discuss since you will inevitably be attacked from every angle no matter what you say.

[@megabyte01]

Speaking from the future, that death toll is now at 14,000 and counting... I have an old friend who somehow thinks I'm antisemitic just from saying that the state of Israel should be accountable for its disproportionate response. Any advice, or is my only viable solution to no contact with my old friend?

[@samuelrosander1048]

For those who aren't aware, there is no significant "left" in the US. There's the far right and the center right. The "left" in the US is "left" only relative to the Republican party and media that support them, which is to say that there's almost no group on Earth now or at any time in history that can be considered farther to the right than Republicans...and Democrats and the "liberal" media are not that far to their left. Moderates in the US are solidly on the right, while liberals are center-right. There are various measures for how people determine leaning, but pretty much all of them are trash that rely on policy preferences, not ideas. The thing that separates left from right isn't empathy, loyalty, duty, equality or any of that other stuff. It's one's position on hierarchy. Not what they say their position is, but what they live and won't compromise on. Loyalty, duty, responsibility and the like are shared between the left and right. Right wingers feel empathy and want equality, too. However, for someone who leans to the left, direct their sense of loyalty, duty, empathy, equality etc towards progressively more people the further left they go, whereas the right directs them to progressively (regressively?) fewer the further to the right they go. Liberals tend to fall somewhere on the right because they want some semblance of equality, but not at the expense of the other hierarchies that keep them privileged enough to want to SOMEWHAT flatten the ones they target. Moderates fall further to the right because they tend to fight to maintain whatever hierarchies exist for similar reasons. "Scratch a liberal and a fascist bleeds" comes from the understanding (and experience) that liberals will regularly side with the far right when their other hierarchies are challenged, going so far as to actively side with fascists against actual leftist movements. Like they're currently doing by siding completely with Israel and attacking anyone who tries to introduce nuance that doesn't support that position. If you've heard of the "political compass" model, you can see how there are more factors at play than just left/right...except that it's wrong. It's all just the one factor, but applied differently under a different term. Left/right vs authority/liberty is just left/right ideas vs left/right methods (not respectively), or anti-hierarchy vs hierarchy more simply. To the left, authority should be spread as thin as possibly, shared equally among the most people possible, so that no individual or group can oppress another through authority. To the right authority should be consolidated so that those in charge can effectively get their agenda through. Without going into examples (I did, but it got too long so I deleted it. Short version, "authoritarian socialism" is a contradiction between the anti-hierarchical demands of socialism and the strongly hierarchical system of top-down authority, and "anarco-capitalism" is a contradiction between the anti-hierarchical demands of "anarchy" ["without rulers"] and the explicitly hierarchical system of capitalism), the more you think about it in terms of hierarchy, the better you'll be able to understand why people think and decide the ways that they do. People on the right want to push things that reinforce/create hierarchies, people on the left want to push things that undermine/dismantle hierarchies, and "centrists" don't exist *as people believe they do*; they're supporting one tendency or the other, sometimes by supporting hierarchy in this issue while rejecting it in another, but the centrism that we think about is merely supporting the status quo, which automatically puts you on the side of supporting hierarchy (which is why "enlightened centrists" are a myth). Anyway, a bit of a rant to explain why there is no "left" in the US of any significance. Democrats, even though they pay lip service to policies that the left wants, have a VERY hard time actually building enough support within the party to make a hard push for them, but they'll "stand back and stand by" while Republicans sabotage the existing programs that undermine hierarchy. 1:35 Correction: Anti-semitism isn't about Jews. Look up the term "semite" and you'll see some variation of "a member of any of the peoples who speak or spoke a Semitic language, including in particular the Jews and Arabs." It's about the people who historically spoke the "semitic" language group, not a specific religion religion. I'm not sure how reliable the claims of Hamas blocking civilians from evacuating are. If it's just taking the word of Israel, then I'm inclined to reject it as propaganda, but if there's video then that's that. Israel has a long track record of dishonesty that only gets revealed months or even years later. One of the most common is that Hamas uses Palestinians as "human shields." Amnesty International has found no evidence that HAMAS has, but they HAVE found evidence that ISRAEL has used Palestinians as human shields. You can read about that and more in their "Israel/Gaza conflict: Questions and Answers" from 2014, and "Shielded from scrutiny: IDF violations in Jenin and Nablus" from 2002. What I have heard regarding them not evacuating is that they were given 24 hours to evacuate, and a lot of people decided not to leave until later. They weren't blocked by Hamas, unless someone can prove it with video, which they almost certainly can't because most media isn't allowed in, and the media that is already there is largely ignored by "Western" countries (also they get bombed. Israel bombs their offices. It's part of their policy). They didn't want to leave their homes. They shouldn't have had to. There's no reasonable argument for them to have to leave their homes if Israel is fighting Hamas, but there IS if Israel is trying to make Gaza unlivable. When you look at it in those terms, ALL of their activities, including their illegal settler program, make sense. Aside from those quibbles, your message is legit.

[@johnsbone]

This more than common sense "truth" needed to be said. Well done!

[@michaelbaxter4706]

In 2015 Netanyahu said that Hitler didn't want to kill the jews, but Palestine pressured the Nazis into the holocaust.

[@andygross6634]

Well the Grand Mufti of Jerusalem went to Berlin to meet with Hitler and offer his services

[@WaylandYT]

@6:44 is an excellent summery worth sharing with anyone who wants a surface level brief on why general western sentiments are the way they are. Thank you Steve. We are failing as a species to have made a political minefield out of standing with innocent civilians who are suffering needlessly no matter their creed, sins of the father, or immutable characteristics. War is hell.

[@vanaharris4437]

I tots watched your other video and tried to read between the lines. Thanks for the clarification

[@nolarobert]

It's amazing the atrocities that can be committed by those who have a fanatical belief in an ideology, especially a god. They have no problem having others die for their cause. They believe they are absolutely in the right and their opposition is absolutely wrong and evil. How do you find compromise with this kind of mindset?

[@michaelpeters364]

I never understood how "Never Again" about the Holocaust was taken to very narrowly apply to ONLY another Jewish Holocaust and antisemitism, and not to the concept of genocide and "ethnic cleansing" altogether, no matter who is being attacked or who is the attacker. I don't understand those who think "genocide is wrong" only counts if the victims are Jewish. I'm glad many Jewish people aren't as bloodthirsty as Netanyahu and his backers... he's as evil in his own way as Hamas. It's too bad we can't lock the leaders of Hamas and Netanyahu and his backers, in a room together and throw away the key - - both Israelis and Palestinians would be better off. Most people on all sides, want peace... because they're all people... It's a horrible tragedy that the '90s peace attempt was destroyed by a far right-wing Israeli shooting Yitzhak Rabin. Peace could have worked.

[@andygross6634]

Peace was destroyed when Arafat walked away in 2000 - 5 years later. A better offer was turned down in 08

[@frankmc8355]

I think there's an extra layer to the trap you describe, which is that Netanyahu was elected by a free and fair parliamentary process. When your government is democratic, I genuinely believe there's less daylight between what atrocities the people in power commit and what the populace that elected them are willing to enable and/or tolerate. It's hard to be critical of the GOVERNMENT of Israel without indirectly being critical of the PEOPLE of Israel who voted them in, which is much more adjacent to douchebag white-supremacists' "the Jews are conspiring to take over the world" horseshit. Netanyahu has been a bad apple for a LONG TIME, yet he still won the election--at some point, you have to question how that keeps happening and there's no way you're ever having that discussion in a nuanced way with the same Neo-Nazis and Zionists looking to derail everything.

[@JCCyC]

For four years, up until last January 1st, Brazil was ruled by violent, bigoted lunatics who were exactly as democratically elected as Netanyahu's gang. Thankfully for the entire world, we don't have much gunpower -- but if they had managed to stay in power for more terms, that could change. War with Venezuela, anyone? And now they're trying the same 5h17 in Argentina. It's not a country X or culture Y problem, it's a Homo sapiens problem. Maybe ALL peoples suck.

[@bartolomeothesatyr]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but the impression that I have gotten from reading American news coverage is that Netanyahu and his allies, much like the American Republican Party, have exploited antidemocratic and unrepresentative details of parliamentary procedure to elect officials and enact policies that are opposed by large pluralities of the eligible voting population, which doesn't strike me as "free and fair" at all.

[@maggie6152]

It's much more complicated than that. Very soon before these attacks happened, there had been major protests in Israel by Israelites against Benjamin's election, which I think was actually unconstitutional, but shifty shifty things had been going on, including corrupting the Israel version of the suoreme court. Protesting civilians were being killed by the government. I learned about this from a new friend who's from Israel, and I'm not familiar with every detail so you should double check what I say, but it has made me a lot less willing to jump into the brouhaha of extreme opinions on the matter.

[@BootSmurf]

Thank you for many reasons, but especially the shirt.

[@wreitz455]

When a group feels very strongly about something. Saying something not positive or critical of that said group or its enterouge can lead to immediate ostracization, expulsion from the group and changing to other/enemy status. Only by being honest (and critical) of each other will peace and middle grounds be found.

[@ruthbryce2667]

Rishi Sunak shook the hand of Netanyahu and said 'We (The British people) want Israel to win'. I was pretty shocked by this. I've complained to my conservative MP. No response yet.

[@zvika_test11zvika_test11]

As a long time trekkie, and fan of this channel but also as a Jew and a human being I would like to share a few comments on this video: 1. It’s funny that you put far right antisemites vs. "extreme Zionists" and ignore the big antisemitic elephant in the room - the left. As Bill Maher says: in the left, hating Jews has become a requirement. It is not a coincidence that Campuses all across the US celebrated the slaughter of Jews way before Israel retaliated. It is not a coincidence that a leftist professor called “Israelis” pigs and excrements and that another professor suggested to target the kids of American “Zionists” (another code word for Jews) in their schools. 2. When thinking of “proportionate response”, I would like to offer a perspective that US people can relate too. US has ~33 time people as in Israel. So picture this : assume (god forbid!) Hammas invades the US, captures 40000 Americans, tortures them, behead babies, rape, burn people (some of them alive) so that 20000 bodies can no longer be even identified and kidnaps 5000 (incl children). What would be the US “proportional response”? (hint: the US killed ~200 Japanese civilians for every US service man killed in Pearl Harbor) 3. To compare what Israel is doing and what Hammas is doing is outrageous. Hammas is only firing at civilians while Israelis fire at military targets (and Hammas is keeping its own population as human shields and its HQ inside Shifa hospital). In the struggle between humanity against pure evil, there is no room for a “yeah, both side are to blame” pov. One can either side with humanity or the other side. Your channel have always been characterized by displaying contempt to Americans who do not share your political views. These anti-others, anti-white, anti-Jews, and anti-humanity values of the left is exactly why your next president will (sadly) be Donald Trump. People see what the left is doing and say: “hell no!, I’m not voting for THAT!!!”. And when this happens (as that Jem’Haddar told Worf) I will look for you and smile. You deserve it.

[@andscifi]

All of this is exactly right. As you said, no decent person wants to be accused or, or be antiemetic. And that is an entirely reasonable point. And I'd add that there have been real efforts, with real political risk, to rein in Israel by the USA. Pointing out that they shouldn't make the same mistakes we did is one of the nicest ways of doing this. But that isn't why I wrote this. I wrote it because of how frustrated I am by needing to do that. If there is one group of people in the world who should understand what it's like to be outsiders who are hated and mistreated by groups more powerful than them it's the people of Israel. And I wish they would take that to the next step and treat other people as they would have wanted to be treated.

[@mariposahorribilis]

I agree and I'm standing up to be counted. Marion Horrod.

[@MultiRanman]

This is a very difficult conversation to have. Thank you for having it.

[@tyeh78]

THANK YOU!!!! thank you, thank you, thank you! 🙏🏼

[@redmed10]

Good summing up of why a lot of people find it hard to comment on this situation and the state of Israel since it was established. It's complicated further by the Judeo Christian tradition. Christianity came out of judeo ism but too many Christians cannot handle this. The very resurrection that seems to have become to be seen as what makes Christianity so special and unique have caused Jewish people to be hated by some who call themselves Christians. You have two sets of people who claim to be the chosen people of the same god. All sounds very illogical to me but then again I am an agnostic which allows me to sit outside of the fray.

[@docjoe86]

This is the best, most nuanced discussion I have seen of this war to date.

[@CorwinFound]

The good guy/bad guy default assumption is difficult to get away from. I'd explained (as much as is possible) the situation to my 14 year old son. A few days later it came up and he asked, "I can't remember, who are the good guys?" Recently in school he's studied WW2 and of course in recent events he's seen Russia's attack on Ukraine. I think cultures and education tend to focus on war events that have clear lines, because it's just a lot easier to digest. I think that's part of why people are gravitating to the extreme ends of both viewpoints. Life is a lot easier to understand when you have good guys and bad guys. Not that those don't exist in this conflict, but the "bad guys" are on both sides and the "good guys" are the innocent civilians caught quite literally in the crossfire.

[@MrSkills123]

Been waiting for this one honestly

[@sarakajira]

Yep. This exactly. And the simple truth is: the truth just has to be said. If other people want to twist it to their means, that's their karma. But we still need to call out atrocities and harms when they occur. One of my biggest criticisms of Israel, is they basically use the Holocaust as a kind get out of jail free card for any apartheid, human rights abuses, and ethnic cleansing they do. "But we suffered so much in the past!" No, your ancestors did, and if the lesson you learned from that was that it's okay to do the same to others: you learned the wrong lesson.

[@c17sam90]

The most interesting thing with the current conflict is that most (not all) American celebrities have been strongly supporting Israel. However in Europe the celebrity reaction has been more interesting to look at its more nuanced and less automatically support of Israel more support of the civilians caught up in the war and the Palestinian people

[@michaelgrantham1871]

As long as sympathy for Palestinian civilians is painted as antisemitism, I will be antisemitic. As long as condemning Israeli war crimes committed on a regular basis is considered to be antisemitic, then I will be antisemitic. And make no mistake, that is exactly what is being done, especially on the right, but also on the left. The idea that the Palestinian people have not ridded themselves of Hamas so they are to be blamed is just like saying that America hasn't ridded itself of MAGA so we are all to blame for J6. Sadly, the Christian support of Israel is 100% in an effort to bring on the fabled "end times". They do not care about the Jewish people, other than their biblical role in the death of the Christian "savior" and a biblical prophesy that Israel would play some part in armageddon. The Jewish people lost control of Israel some 2500 to 3000 years ago. After WWII, a coalition of world governments, in order to prevent displaced German Jews from immigrating to their various nations, got together and gave back the land that they had abandoned so long ago. The people who were already living there objected. Native Americans wonder how they can get the same deal Israel got.

[@michaels.9871]

Yes and. While it is not implausible to centre jewish people and antisemism in this discussion, there is also just a lot racism against palestinian/arab/muslim people here.

[@di380]

Well said, couldn’t have put it in words better myself👍

[@classuscle1605]

Steve, I greatly appreciate your Star Trek content, but I can't let this video go unchallenged. I hope you will read this as coming from a perspective that I don't think you can have: a Westerner whose people express solidarity with Palestine because we understand their plight. It has nothing to do with antisemitism. It has everything to do with geopolitics. The US and the West do nothing about Israel because they don't want to. It's in their interests for Israel to keep doing whatever it wants. The existence of Israel is a way for the West to project its will and protect its interests in the Middle East. It is used to keep the region in a state of permanent disarray so that they will not unite and resist Western hegemony. You think those in power in the West and in the board rooms of Western capital give a shit about anyone who is oppressed, be they Jew, Muslim or Christian? You think they even have a concept of antisemitism being a bad thing when they are completely and utterly without any semblance of a conscience? These are the same people who almost entirely destroyed Vietnam for the sole purpose of punishing them for daring to resist; who backed the Khmer Rouge; who killed millions in Iraq and Afghanistan; who directly or indirectly created al-Qaeda, Hamas, ISIS and the Contras; who supported Pinochet; who engineered Operation Condor and Operation Gladio; who have toppled countless democracies and backed countless fascist dictators leading to death tolls that are simply unknowable and who supported the Nakba... all for the sake of upholding the Western imperial strangehold on the world. As Joe Biden said, "if there were not an Israel, we would have to invent one to make sure our interests were preserved". Israel is a fundamentally racist, supremacist, apartheid, settler colonial ethnostate that acts as a Western outpost. I am from Ireland, a country that was THE prototype for European settler colonialism and the same settler colonialism that Palestine has been suffering for over a century. We were first occupied over 800 years ago and the settler colonialism officially began in earnest about 500 years ago. For centuries, we had to endure settlers coming here, murdering the indigenous population, stealing our homes and lands, all planned, facilitated and upheld by the occupying imperial power, which still partially occupies our country to this day. Laws were passed to ensure that the indigenous population were second-class, that they were to have no rights. We were ethnically cleansed and displaced. When a war that deliberately massacred civilians wasn't killing 50% of the entire population, famines were engineered by stealing our food and shipping it all back to the imperial core. They worked tirelessly to destroy the society that we built over millennia and erase our identity, our food, our folklore, our religion and even our native language, which barely hangs on by a thread in the 21st century. Even today, what you might call "Northern Ireland" is just land that never stopped being occupied. Like Israel, it was explicitly established to oppress the indigenous population and to maintain the supremacy of the settler population. The imperial power that did this - and continues its occupation to this day - is the same one that facilitated the Zionist settler colonisation of Palestine: the British Empire. It wasn't a reaction to the Holocaust either, the Balfour Declaration being issued in 1917. Zionism was always colonial and it always intended to displace the Palestinians and take their land from them. This has never been a secret among Zionists - they have always been proud of it. From Theodor Herzl to Benjamin Netanyahu, Zionism has had one goal: take and colonise Palestine. As put by Herzl in The Jewish State: "We should there form a portion of a rampart of Europe against Asia, an outpost of civilization as opposed to barbarism. We should as a neutral State remain in contact with all Europe, which would have to guarantee our existence." The parallels between Ireland and Palestine are so stark that the British Empire saw Zionism as an opportunity for “forming for England ‘a little loyal Jewish Ulster’ in a sea of potentially hostile Arabism", as described by Ronald Storrs, the British Military Governor of Jerusalem, drawing a comparison with the supremacist settler colonial polity of "Northern Ireland". Everything you see happening to Palestine, we have seen done to us. The propaganda against us was widespread for a long time and it dehumanised us similarly to how it dehumanises the Palestinians. Israeli government officials refer to the Palestinians as "rats" and "human animals" and opinion polls of Israelis show widespread support for further annexations and denying basic human rights to Palestinians in perpetuity (if not outright genocide) and we were subjected to very similar calls for forced assimilation, further colonisation, ethnic cleansing and extermination. Every time we resisted, we were massacred and labelled "terrorists". British soldiers would kidnap, torture and rape Irish people for fun, calling them "terrorists". British settlers would instigate pogroms, burn Irish people out of their homes, calling them "terrorists". And every time Irish people resisted, "terrorists". To this day, the image of Irish people being terrorists, just like Palestinians, is seared into the British psyche, so much so that Irish people in Britain are often subjected to this accusation and other stereotypical forms of abuse. Antisemitism is rife when it comes to Israel, built into its very foundation. Like you touched on in the video, not only is Israel antisemitic by insisting that anti-Zionist Jews are not really Jews and by internally discriminating against non-Ashkenazi Jews, its deliberate attempts to conflate itself with Judaism mean that it believes that all Jews are necessarily in favour of ethnic cleansing, genocide and settler colonialism. The logic speaks for itself, when Zionists respond to "this is a war crime" with "you are antisemitic" - the implication is that either you are in favour of these things or you hate all Jews. The accusations of antisemitism that is so gleefully throws at its critics are obviously disingenous and weaponised specifically to deflect this kind of criticism. The United States and Europe accept and perpetuate this cynical and disgraceful domestic-abuser-style retort to uphold Israel and their geopolitical interests. Gaza is a concentration camp. An entire generation of people have been born into and are now being murdered en masse within that concentration camp, having never set foot outside. Settler colonialism is violence. It is the pre-planned, deliberate and systemic destruction of a people and theft of their land. Like us, the Palestinians have tried non-violent resistance and it does not work. Palestine is fully justified in resisting via whatever means necessary. They are facing their extermination in their own homeland. Gaza has been levelled and Palestinians in the West Bank are facing a new wave of settler colonialism and murder. 10,000 Palestinians killed by the occupier in a few weeks and over 100,000 murdered since 800,000 were displaced in the ethnic cleansing of the Nakba 75 years ago. The Palestine situation is very straightforward. You don't have to give unconditional support to organisations such as Hamas or others in the Palestinian resistance for everything they do, but there is a clear moral obligation to support the Palestinian people in their struggle for freedom and oppose Israel. It is not the place of Westerners - who have supported this process for over a century - to lecture a people who are being genocided on what they can or cannot do, nor is it their place to "both-sides" the issue or present a distorted version of history that lends legitimacy to Israel. And I think it's especially incumbent on us in the West not to repeat reports by the Western media or Israel/the IDF as if they are fact. Israel is constantly just lying about what the Palestinians are doing and trying to portray itself as the victim. Everything they say is suspect.

[@casey6556]

My university administration has repeatedly threatened our student organizations’ existence for condemning and/or intending to boycott and divest from Israel on the basis that such “anti-semitism” violates their policies. The fact that immediately equating being anti-Israel with being anti-Jew is itself arguably a form of anti-semitism doesn’t seem to sway them any.

[@Duskrequim]

We have over 30 states that have signed agreements to punish ANY BUSINESS OR GROUP in their state that speaks out against Israel. This is how we have allowed Apartheid to exist against the citizens of Palestine. Its okay to be critical and against the IDF and the government of Israel and still support the Jewish people..

[@dolphpun]

You should change shirts more often. :) Thank you for being an ally. Thank you also for such a thoughtful and balanced take on a very tough subject.

[@derrickturner7163]

Do not ignore the initial thing that started it , and When it started.

[@ShadowDrakken]

As someone from a Jewish family, can we talk about the tens of thousands of acres of land Israel has been stealing and expanding into over the last 60 years?

[@Megaghost_]

The main issue is not being accused of antisemitism, the lack of criticism against Israel is the result of their close relationship with USA and Europe. Joe Biden said it himself in 1986: "It is the best 3 billion dollar investment we make. If there were no Israel, USA would have to invent an Israel to protect their interest in the region." THAT is the source which taints public discourse.

[@andygross6634]

Well here’s the thing. If you say Jews have no right to a country within any borders, have no claim to the land, fail to recognize the poor Palestinian leadership or worst case celebrate a massacre you might be an anti Semite. If none of these are true and I hope that’s the case, you are just a concerned citizen

[@buyaj7693]

I am pro- Palestinians but this is rhe most evenhanded and honest assessment of the situation

[@zax2004]

There is nothing wrong about stating that unjust actions of someone are unjust. Though being specific blocks the ability to say it on here.

[@rich_4832]

All true and logical. The middle east in particular has never been a black and white issue. Thanks for saying it!

[@ericvanderaa]

Thank you for your well Balanced video.

[@philadeos]

Long before the tactical situation even took shape, the propaganda messages from official channels were shocking. To me it communicated that "ALL options were open", even when some of those 'options' shouldn't be considered by ANY civilized person in ANY circumstance.

[@chriscubbernuss3288]

One point of view here: Israel should exist if people want to get together and form a nation willingly. Unfortunately, they decided to put it where people already lived. The expectation that you can just uproot multiple cultures and displace entire civilizations and NOT encounter any kind of resistance or retaliation is absolutely beyond absurd. But, I'm also an American living within the geographical borders of the United States, so...yeah. Not sure we have any room to talk.

[@EMSpdx]

Great video, Steve. In addition to blaming Nazis, you should also blame The British Empire and colonialism (is there any part of the world that the Empire did not screw up?) , the astonishing corruption of Levant governments and how they blame Israel for their people's woes while stealing and hoarding resources, and yes, Israel's own governmental corruption and absorption of horrific anti-indigenous idealogy. It's a cruel, and fundamentally unnecessary shit show. To tie this back to your Star Trek focus, this is what Nimoy's/Martin-Green's "Reunification" mini-series is about at it core.

[@Jiminat0rr]

I have no real dog in this fight, and i wholeheartedly agree with you Steve. I think it's also fair to point out that we use the word Terrorist and Terrorism as a catch-all, and was in all likelihood coined to instill fear and terror into the civilian populations of those consuming media, so that they will be comforted by any retaliation made. It also occurs to me that since Hamas was founded in the late 80s, they have been acting as a resistance to the occupation and systematic elimination of the land that belonged to them. While their actions are indeed heinous and should be rightfully condemned, it is emblematic of what can happen when people are brought to the brink. Killing 5x as many Palestinians as retribution is frankly callous and beyond extreme, given what we see and have heard from the Israeli govt, who have been recorded saying they want to eliminate everything in Gaza. Zionism indeed The same people would have called Nelson Mandela a terrorist for resisting the apartheid of South Africa, and he spent 27 years in prison. Also, I don't know whether this analogy holds water (as a star trek fan myself), but DS9 would have been a much shorter show if, instead of halting the occupation of Bajor and creating that neutral environment, the Fed simply handed over a shit ton of ships and torpedoes and other resources to the Cardassians and said have at it, but not once have the US and Europe bothered to say "Are we the baddies"

[@bennyfifeaudio]

The declaration of the Hamas attack as being a 9/11 for Israel was an instant red flag for me. Considering the amount of retribution the US and its allies doled out in the middle east. Terrorism is evil, but reacting to terrorism by wanton war and extermination of civilians is every bit as evil.

[@banonKING]

Brilliant as always!

[@zeffevnon]

You've got a good head on your shoulders, Steve. 👍👍

[@user-194o-sc]

Hi---Me again---the elderly one---While I love all that you do as you tackle the issues of the day, I really appreciated your lack of vulgarity in this one. Sometimes the foul language almost overpowers your point. Love ya

[@crowapples]

One interesting little thing to note is that everything you brought up about the difficulty of criticizing Israel applies for Jews too. Then throw the risk of being ostracized by hardline family or community members in on top of that. I'm an American Jew who decidedly opposes the Israeli government, but I'm very hesitant to talk about it. Now, generally, one can fall back on the old reliable argument that one should always stand up against injustice even when it's difficult, but does that still hold true when not standing up in exactly the right way is literally helping fucking Nazis? But of couse, saying nothing isn't any better. When the Jews who don't support Israel keep quiet, that leads to the perception that American Jews are uniformly pro-israel regardless of anything the israeli government does, which then fuels even more antisemitism. The only thing I can say for sure is that anyone making the argument that "it's actually very simple" is definitely wrong.

[@JohnnyItsMe]

A note a few people have said Arabs are Semites. This is true however the world "antisemitism" specifically refers to Jewish people NOT people speaking any Semetic language. "Antisemitism (also spelled anti-semitism or anti-Semitism) is hostility to, prejudice towards, or discrimination against Jews. This sentiment is a form of racism, and a person who harbours it is called an antisemite"

[@nacoran]

I understand it's hypocritical for us in the U.S. to call out Israel for war crimes responding to a massive terrorist attack. Our war on terror has cost hundreds of thousands of lives, so it's hard for the U.S. to call them out. That said, Israel's policies towards the possibility of a two state solution have been horrific since the assassination of Rabin. What frustrates me about the idea of collective punishment is it's end result. Collective punishment breeds solidarity. It's used in basic training in the military specifically because it brings the recruits together as a unit. It puts Hamas into the role of Robin Hood for the Palestinians and Israel as the Sheriff of Nottingham. If your own policies make you into the Sheriff of Nottingham you are doing something wrong. I don't know what the solution is. Long run, prosperity generally moderates radicalism, but under constant blockade Gaza, and with Hamas funnelling a huge portion of what does get through into missiles to attack Israel and all the violence in Gaza virtually guarantee there will never be much prosperity. I wonder if Israel's constant targeting of top Hamas officials is maybe counterproductive in the long run. I think ultimately, one way forward would be for someone in Hamas to consolidate power enough that they are in a position where their power isn't reliant on their anti-Israel sentiments. Arafat, in the end, was able to engage in peace talks because he basically became a senior spokesman for Palestine. But of course, more radical people broke away from the PLO and on the Israeli side their right wing assassinated their own Prime Minister. The only paths to peace I see now are counter-historical ones, like 'What if Rabin hadn't been assassinated' or 'What if instead of giving the Sinai Peninsula back to Egypt Israel had given it to the Palestinians (with enough land and partial control over the Suez canal maybe they would have prospered enough to build a stable society?). With Israel still settling the West Bank and countries still supporting them while they do that, and with capricious border crossing rules I don't see a way forward. A two state solution where Israel completely withdrew from the West Bank and allowed a transit corridor between Gaza and the West Bank might be a start. Right now the U.N. is even more ineffectual than usual. I do think Hamas has to go, but I don't see how Israel will ever get themselves back out. Imagine a world where Gaza wasn't radicalized and where Israel didn't enforce an embargo and where foreign investment could turn Gaza into a working state. Like Data said, sometimes terrorism does work. I'm not sure what will happen at the end of this.

[@marthaknox6466]

Yup. I've already had to unfriend one person on social media who used a blatantly anti-Semitic cartoon from the Nazi era in their criticism of the IDF, and I've also had another friend on FB post an article that accuses Leftist such as myself who hold the Right-Wing policies of Israel's current government at least partially responsible for this whole mess "Nazi sympathizers". It's a shit show all around.

[@Dragoon91786]

It's relevant to note that ethnic Palastinians are also semites by definition, as are Arabs and other peoples from the region. As such, the term "antisemitic" getting tossed around gets a bit dicey. Particularly, since who is a "Jew" itself is one hell of a dicey subject within the diaspora itself-for anyone with ethnic Jewish heritage on their father's side, but not their mother's will tell you. The term "semite" itself is obsolete language referring largely to those peoples who use semitic languages. As such, it's entirely possible for Israeli Jews to be antisemitic as well if they are acting racist towards native Palastinians. There is also the historical colonialism aspect that Steve slightly alludes to, but is crucial to understanding in terms of the larger context, as well as the xenophobic treatment of Africans, African Jews in particular who are under Israeli law, given "rights to return", which when used become subject to harsh ethnicism by the ruling northern European Jewish community. Some of the rallies by far-right Israelis in Jerusalem and Tel Aviv (and surrounding regions) have used language against immigrants including "white" Jews calling "black" Jews (and others, including darker skinned Jews) "rats" (which for those of us with Jewish ancestry or anyone with a decent comprehension of the history of the Holocaust should find deeply concerning). There's also the historical colonialism conflict with European colonialist Jews and native regional Jews, as well as how Israel since at least the administration of JFK has begun to be a US foothold in the region (the US having replaced the UK & France in these regards, and the prior focus of US efforts in the region shifting away from other countries such as Egypt for example towards Israel). It is at times a tragic story that in some fashion or another has been told to us through science fiction-including Trek. Another major issue has been the political pressure by the Israeli government and its US Lobby group (I await criticism on this framing, though point out that it is not the only PAC of this type, though probably the most powerful), AIPAC (American Israel Political Action Committee) on the sizable US Jewish community (and the entirety of the Jewish diaspora) to be unable to differentiate between the state if Israel and jewishness-thereby creating the often nonsensical charge towards Jews critical of the state of Israel (such as those Orthodox and other members of deeply religious Jewish communities who believe that the state of Israel is effectively "an abomination before G-d" for having "stolen the lands of their neighbors, murdered, and gone against the Will of G-d" whom they believe "punished Israel for its sins by destroying the temple and casting its people to the four winds" "ordering that instead Jews become beacons to other nations within which they dwell" " to be guiding lights to those civilizations". As such, supporting what they seem as a "western colonizing project" is an "abomination before their Lord". What makes this more complicated is when these people (who make up a sizable portion of the Jewish diaspora) to be labeled as "self-hating" and suppressed by political power, in some cases being subject to violence, such as was the case of Palestinian Jews who were displaced alongside their Arab neighbors during the 1947 war. As someone who has ethnic Jewish heritage, I find myself personally affected by the discourse because of how deeply it harms the diaspora. When American news anchors get fired specifically for their criticism of the state of Israel's apartheid government and treatment of Palastinians, it moves past simple disagreement and instead into a plot straight out of Trek or other sci-fi. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Semitic_languages en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Semitic_people

[@bartolomeothesatyr]

Ask any Black American just how equal "equality under the law" will get you, @@eladnoy2547

[@soren3569]

Excellent take, but I'd like to put forward a few addenda. First, American media, in particular, has a Gully Dwarf problem. (Gully dwarves, in the Dragonlance setting for D&D, were particularly stupid and specifically only had the ability to count to two--where "two" was used to refer to anything more than a single item in a set.) In this same way, the media tries to boil down every conflict to 'two sides'. This has several side-effects. First off, it results in the conflation you mention, wherein anyone who criticizes a particular side is automatically lumped in with the worst of the 'other' side. Secondly, it then requires the news org to pick which side is the 'good' side in the fight. Once you've done that, due to the first effect, it becomes almost impossible to effectively critique that side's actions. Also, while not all Palestinians are Hamas, the fact is that a great deal of the Palestinians in Gaza and the West Bank do support them, either just in a morale sense of cheering their actions, or in terms of actual aid and assistance. Oh, one other element of the Problem of Antisemitism deserves mention, here: it's important to remember that the State of Israel was founded not just in response to the Holocaust, but also as a result of the West's general complacency during the Holocaust itself, especially before war was declared. Both England and the US refused entry to German and Austrian Jews trying to flee what was very obviously coming. (Ask how many Palestinian refugees we've taken in since the start of the current conflict to see history repeat itself.) So the Jews were adamant that they needed to have an actual ethnostate--one where the Jewish people were the majority--so that there would ALWAYS be a redoubt, someplace Jews across the world would know they could flee to if any particular nation started down the same road. And because of the complicity and complacency of the US and Britain, they felt obligated to assist in that goal--without, it should be noted, giving up any of their own territory. Instead, Palestine was under British control because the Ottomans sided with Germany and lost that territory, and so the Brits said, "Hey, how about there?" and since the US wasn't about to just section off a piece of Montana for the Jews seeking a new Zion, they went along with it. It's worth noting, BTW, that the 'ethnostate' above gets more complicated because "Jewish" has cultural, ethnic and religious definitions that overlap, but absolutely are not perfectly homogeneous. My admittedly superficial understanding is that Israel's charter explicitly gives some religious minorities an outsized say in the formation of their parliament, which is why arch-conservatives tend to dominate (imagine if the US Constitution explicitly ensured that Dominionists got a specific number of seats in the Senate). This is why Nutty Yahoo has such a stranglehold on power.

[@Salikino]

Thanks for explaining

[@JoannaHancock-d1v]

What most people don't know or even bothered to check, Semites are anyone who speak the semitic language which include the Jewish and Arabic peoples, including the Palestinian peoples. Additionally, equating the state of Israel to be representative of all of Judaism is absurd on its face. But Steve you are right, it has become a knee jerk reaction that any criticism of the apartheid state of Israel is anti semitic and no one wants to be painted with that brush.

[@teresahalliday3680]

Yes!!

[@andygross6634]

Anti Semitism is defines as the irrational hatred of Jews. Don’t play with words

[@swiftfox7725]

It should be easy to criticize the Israeli government without sounding like a Nazi, yet I've seen so many people unable to clear that bar.

[@carloscanadas4299]

Thank you for making this video. I don’t consider myself a liberal, and yet maybe not 100% conservative, we may not agree on everything but I take everything with a grain of salt and do my own research. But even this conflict has been polarized. Thank you for explaining for those who are taking sides without knowing and who are creating more division and confusion