How to destroy a Grade 2 listed timber frame with cement and silicone

[@da_great_mogul]

It would be nice you could show the finished result of your work Peter. I know you focus on the problem at hand but showing the results of your expertise and remedy of your initial diagnosis would be great to see.

[@WarmDryHome]

We are doing some videos at the moment of the job we have in Henley - I'll post them shortly.. Tis a bit hard sometimes to follow up if clients don't ask, or we are not involved in the building job, or sometimes they dont buy the place...

[@da_great_mogul]

great mate, look forward to seeing them. I wanted to ask for your advice. We are building a side extension to our late 1800's dry stone end of terrace property. Am I right to assume that as long as remedial plaster work is carried out with lime plaster to the front and rear, external facing walls, that gypsum can be used on new cavity built masonry and also on the internal (party wall and side) walls? Being on a budget we want to limit the lime based plaster, where possible!

[@WarmDryHome]

I'd be careful if the internal walls are solid and breathable - gypsum may cause damp issues - unless you can keep moisture levels in the house right down below about 7g/m3 all the time - in RH and temp terms, that means keeping RH below 50% and temp 15 to 20 degrees. Damp is all about moisture in the air condensing within the wall - and if too much moisture, you get condensation. Can also try humidity controlled ventilation - we love the stuff. Dont know about floors - complex subject - if concrete - will push damp into walls from under concrete - which is why I prefer limecrete or suspended timber. Lime not expensive especially if you do self... materials cheaper than gypsum..

[@da_great_mogul]

Peter Ward to the gable end they are but these will become internal when extension is built. Is it not only solid walls that are facing the outside that have the issue? If so, these two walls are all being done / skimmed in lime.

[@bg147]

What a beautiful house. I have a 1923 bungalow in Southern Illinois and a big reason I bought it was because nobody ever messed with it. These old houses were practical and designed with function in mind. Why people feel the need to chop them up, tear down walls, etc. is idiotic. If you plan to make big changes, don't buy the house, find another one that offers what you want. Almost every problem I see with houses is due to someone mucking it up.

[@Rysee88]

Not all heroes wear capes! Thanks for the continuing education Peter.

[@dismaldog]

Gosh-these vids really do show how we need to get back to the attitude of using original materials and techniques,thanks for your professional attitudes and your love shows through.They are just about to re-point an old building here in Tasmania that was originally lime and tuckpoint-whats the bet they use cement based mortars!

[@jdickson242]

Ahhhhhh cement......then foam!! I see so many houses in herefordshire that look okay at a distance but they are literally going to be a pile of rubble within a generation. Painted panels ronseal on beams! Why do people not know these basics about old buildings. My parents house had and old sandstone wall and wattle and daub panels all painted with Snowcem. I had a lovely 3 months chipping it all off carefully by hand. Fun times ahead.

[@andrewalvis4513]

Another good video Pete. I saw the same problems on £1m purchase survey last week. Have advised client to remove all cement repairs and black paint from the timber frame. Ball park estimate £30k and rising! Sadly, I rarely seen a timber frame without these problems.

[@WarmDryHome]

Sad when you think these frames have survived perfectly ok for hundreds of years - it's only the last few years since the introduction of modern impermeable materials that the damage has set in. The other problem is finding good people - I did one recently, where client was charged nearly £700,000 for work to a frame, WITHOUT LBC!!!!! - I estimate it was worth about £200k - but the joints all slope inwards, and everything is 'sealed' with compriband - when it rains, the inside walls are like a waterfall. Whole house needs stripping and doing again. Project manager / architect claims historic qualifications, strings of letters - complete idiot - needs to be struck off along with conservation officer that allowed it all, retrospectively, with NO drawings!!!! Keep up the good work - we are swamped - come join us!!!!

[@SkillBuilder]

I enjoyed your video in a perverse kind of way. I am not sure how you are going to rectify that movement. Glad it isn't my house.

[@jamesgraham354]

Hi Peter, do you know of any courses available to get qualified in your line of work?

[@damonwallace6440]

Find your videos very interesting and helpful. I first came across your channel when researching for my own 'damp' problem middle of last year upon purchases my first house. It's rather worrying of the trends of wally damp men as you appropriately put. In my case, end terrace cottage, built 1888, injected for damp numerous times, put no rising damp, except a tiny patch. Just replastered with gypsum plaster, and went mankey and powdery through no breathability . And upstairs....where the original lime plaster was still up, another idiot painted the surface with oil based paint, and further 2-3 layers of painted wall paper. It's all had the come off as no useable surface left and replastering starts in feb. Keep up with great videos. Would be very interested to see a videos of the work carried out and the final results. Cheers. Damon

[@WarmDryHome]

Good luck! Make sure its all lime plaster! Also - keep an eye on ventilation and humidity control - make sure temps are kept at even 15 to 18 degrees C - run heating low and constant - not high and on-off. Constant ventilation - humidity controlled - look up RHL on google and ask for Ray Hudson - mention us - he's the best in the country and does affordable humidity controlled ventilation that WORKS!

[@steriospeaker]

Hi Peter. Loving your videos. I have a very basic question maybe you can help me with? I need to repoint a small area of my 1850 house. I've bought a bag of NHL 3.5 (natural hydraulic lime) - is this the type of stuff you'd recommend over P cement? Keep up the great work! Thanks.

[@DougEDoug-om8ie]

Peter when are you releasing a book?!

[@WarmDryHome]

It's been on the drawing board for a while - I actually have a series of notes and chapter outlines - but work gets in the way!

[@Rusnakmsk]

You are making great deal, Thank you! could you please recommend good book something like How to build modern house today using principles of traditional construction!

[@steve-pc8en]

hi peter, how do i get in contact with you regarding having a decent poke around my place?

[@WarmDryHome]

Steve - best email the office as I'm out a lot of the time on the road - [e-mail], and have a chat with her. She'll try to arrange a time that suits - we are a bit swamped at the moment so pushed in terms of timescales.. Whereabouts are you?

[@steve-pc8en]

plymouth- i will email the office tomorrow, love for you to see the place and expline a few things! thanks peter.

[@christiandanielsson7151]

Is that a birds leg fallining down at 9:47!?

[@alanwhitaker1320]

Do you not have termites there? Any place we get wet wood, the termites move in. Then its a waiting game until they eat it all! My house is framed in oak and the termites have done much damage where there was/is water infiltration.

[@WarmDryHome]

No - thank heaven - no termites. Basically if you can keep wood dry, it won't get damaged. Most damage is from damp timber, which is made damp by unbreathable materials like cement and silicone. I lived in australia in a big old timber framed place - termites there will eat anything - dry or wet - so they have to be soaked in chemistry from day 1, with termite caps on all the posts...

[@gramursowanfaborden5820]

we have "woodworm" and some larger animals which lay larvae in some woods, but they act slowly and only cause structural damage over a long time, infestations are easily treatable with insecticide and some furniture companies intentionally create mock woodworm holes in an attempt to give their furniture a rustic charm.

[@TheRestorationCouple]

Oh dear, there are definitely some 'wally' points there! That silicone bodging was criminal. Looks like there is no way of avoiding a full on highly disruptive restoration if those panels need to be sorted? It's nice to see a survey like this where actual investigative effort is used rather than being told on paper that something 'may need further investigation'. Thank for the video Peter.

[@WarmDryHome]

I just wish we could stop this happening - need to keep doing blogs, videos, web pages - the more it is out there, the more people learn, the more information is freely available... hopefully we'll win. Just had a £500,000 timber frame where despite full historic building survey, bank now wants PCA timber and damp report - I'm going mental trying to erase PCA and this stupid 'timber and damp' thing from existence... Banks and Building Societies need educating.

[@MarcGray1990]

Peter Ward this is totally mad how it's all been bodged up over time. looking through previous comments I'm 26 and renovate properties.... (not this old) but I'm so keen to learn about these buildings and how to put them right.... I know a lot of older guys who really haven't a clue when it comes to these issues... so yes I'm with you on the fact younger guys ask the questions now! just one question Peter. .. when was lime mortar and plaster phased out and cement and gypsum plaster come into use? thanks... Marc Gray.

[@WarmDryHome]

Marc - Most houses were still being lime plastered in the 30's and 40's. There was very little gypsum being used until the late 40's and early 50's. Cement was used to make concrete early - in the 1900's, but wasnt used for domestic building until probably the 1930's - and even then, right through until the early 1960's, always was a 4:1:1 mix of sand cement and builders lime - even then, there was a belief that lime was plastic and flexible. Certainly breathability as such, was being built into houses well into the mid / late 1930's - so anything built before then will almost certainly be breathable, using lime mortar and plaster. The early cavity walls were all built with lime - hence why they are all failing now when cavity filled - millions of them - because the walls still breathe and allow moisture to pass freely. Fill the gap and it gets wet - leave it as a cavity and the wall stays warm and dry! So I guess the answer is probably buried somewhere between the wars, or just after. All down hill from then on I'm afraid !

[@MarcGray1990]

thanks Peter very informative knowledge. I wonder if you could be further assistance to me. I'm removing modern masonry paint from the bricks below my DPC on my 1935 semi detached house. no damp issues inside the house at all... but these bricks on the outside obviously are damp as they are below the dpc and the paint traps the salts in and moisture and the paint is peeling and going white.... so I'm in the process of removing it and I'm wondering if I should repoint the bricks with sand and cement or add lime to both sand and cement as you stated in your previous comment as the pointing needs addressing to make it pleasing to the eye. thanks. marc

[@WarmDryHome]

Neither - don't use cement. The lime we talk about is not builders lime, and should not be confused. Its either non-hydraulic or hydralic lime, as opposed to hydrated lime, which is the rubbish in builders yards. Dont go near that stuff. If you want breathability, you'll need hydraulic - a 3:1 mix of coarse gritty sharp sand with hydraulic. NO portland cement at all. 1935 is probably still built entirely with lime mortar, but can't be certain. Make sure ground level slopes away from house and can't splash bricks, and check drains etc for cracks too - can affect the brickwork at low level..

[@ianroughley1933]

Nice vid again. I hope that house owner can get some sort of grant help for a G2 building to sort that mess out?

[@WarmDryHome]

Unfortunately no money available in England. Scotland and Wales with their devolved governments, have more interest in preserving their heritage, and have more funding. In England, it's zero.

[@blackbirdcycles]

Peter can you fix the home

[@WarmDryHome]

No problem. Actually timber frames are relatively simple when you know how. . It depends on owners though - often they will deal with it the way they see best - and may do it themselves. Its hard - comes down to money a lot of the time..

[@jacksticksmitch]

Absolute disgrace what some modern builders do to period buildings. Do they actually know the correct way to restore and repair them, or is it that they just cannot be bothered?!

[@WarmDryHome]

Unfortunately the vast majority haven't a clue. It's all about breathability - most builders cannot be bothered to learn about it, and most certainly don't want to admit that gypsum, cement, acrylics, silicone etc., are doing irreparable damage to these buildings. When was the last time you heard of a builder doing study, or CPD - they just don't. There are notable exceptions - funnily enough the younger guys - who are asking questions, and finding that they become specialists in lime plastering for eg., and all of a sudden have a very successful business!

[@jdickson242]

Ps my brother makes new timber frames and what i dont understand is building control insisting about dpc being put under sill beams even though it will destroy the sill. Complete lack of understanding