Stock VS Built | M8 Flywheel Comparison 2020 with Moonshine H-D | Shop Talk Episode 46

Today in the shop, Jamie and Mike take us through a Flywheel Comparison of Stock versus Built Flywheels. We've got four flywheels in this comparison:
- Stock Harley M8 Flywheel with counter-balancer
- S&S 4.625 Stroker Kit with counter-balancer
- Stock Harley M8 Flywheel without counter-balancer with carrillo rods
- S&S M8 Flywheel without counter-balancer with carrillo rods
TEXT OR CALL US WITH YOUR QUESTIONS at ‪[phone]‬. We'll be answering these questions at our Live Q&A Stream Dec. 11th, 2020 here at the shop. We want to hear from you!
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[@High_Desert_Tanner]

"it gets you all the chicks"... True story! That's how I met my wife... Saw me at a gas station and she asked what kind of flywheels my Road King had... As soon as I said "S" she pulled up the skirt 🤣

[@dsruddell]

what a stud! 😂

[@esesrides1255]

😂😂😂

[@MoonshineHarley]

True story!

[@ppuntrotzooizooi7692]

Yeah flywheels are chick magnets

[@stevekegerreis1962]

Your videos are full of great information. I was in your place last summer. Both your videos and being there showed me that all of ya are truly down to earth people. I have been to a lot for dealers and shops and it is hard to find people like y'all. Ride safe and have fun

[@Greenmachine305]

A performance Harley is an interesting concept.

[@beardedwonder8864]

With big engines come big problems at times...any video y’all can do on if you’re keepin belt drive or switchin over to chain? Thx! Keep up the good work 🤘🤘🤘

[@MoonshineHarley]

It really depends on how you are going to ride it. If you’re doing wheelies and dumping the clutch to lite it up in 2nd than you need a chain.

[@6806goats1]

Reading about concerns with removing the counter balancer as well as installing a left timken bearing. I'm running a 2020 RG Limited with the 131 kit which means stock 114 lower end and 4.5" stroke. What needs to done with the block when removing the balancer? Epoxy fill the bearing hole? Different timken sleeve made from AL instead of SS?

[@talkingrock7011]

Green video men you are a wealth of information

[@pharaohnile867]

On the stock M8 flywheel is that the the 4.5 stroker because theres 2 M8 flywheels one is smooth and the other looks like the one you have sitting there with the groove around it

[@francoismagne4208]

Hi Moonshine, what would be according to you the best flywheel for a twin cam 117 to put in with Feuling 594 cams? Darkhorse or s and s? Thank you very much. 😊 And hello from France 🇫🇷

[@gotchu99]

Do a SS cam kit and call it a day. Very nice power increase and replaces some of the poorly designed M8 components. IDC what Moonshine says, when you start to go very big ci and high compression with crazy numbers, you will have problems. If you're ok with that, go for it and have a blast...

[@ppuntrotzooizooi7692]

Yeah and all of it doen’t cost much 😂

[@roncoburn7771]

you want the flywheels heavy windows and removing the balancer is no good unless you just want to rev it at redlights

[@paulmears825]

Can you get Guerrilla rods for stock M8 flywheel? Or just twin cam? Thanks anybody

[@cameronboswell7888]

I'm not a veteran but I'm an artist and I'll make that sculpture.

[@MoonshineHarley]

Hell yeah!

[@kennethwise7108]

Does Ultima use Corillo rods? They look very similar. "H" beam

[@brian5606]

Looking at building a M8 with a 4.375 bore with a 4" stroke big stanken cam for a high-rpm Saturday Night Bar Hopper. Does anybody do 4" wheels or can the 4" stroke 88" twin cam crank be made to go into a M8 . . . Thanks . . . BRIAN

[@Bass.Player]

Weight is always a detriment unless inertia is called for (for a slingshot effect). Mass must always be accelerated even at a constant speed and the less you have the better it will be, of course you must have enough to satisfy the application.

[@FranBunnyFFXII]

Where would you even get those Carillo rods for a Softail stock 114?

[@MoonshineHarley]

From us, Moonshine Harley-Davidson

[@elusivesambar8657]

I have experienced excessive vibration in the handlebars after a 124 kit. What in your opinion would cause this and have you seen this before after a build? Was fine in stock form. Has the usual bits all s&s

[@MoonshineHarley]

It could be lots of things. It could be the tune. Did you remove the counter balancers from the lower end. Is it a Softail or touring frame?

[@kevincollins9731]

What do you do with Twin Cam motor’s

[@BafflingBS]

So, are the S&S “guys” better than a Darkhorse MOW? I have the MOW in my 2015 SGS 110”. It was my understanding the no one was better than Darkhorse

[@MoonshineHarley]

The Wan-O-War Darkhorse builds uses S&S Wheels with Carrillo Rods. So Man-O-War all day.

[@kolehawkins2737]

Hey moonshine what can these stock m8 cranks handle HP and TQ? When is a good time to make the jump to your upgraded flywheel. Thanks guys

[@MoonshineHarley]

We like to upgrade when we are going past 140 HP.

[@JohnSmith-de2mz]

@@MoonshineHarley I know that the Baggers have both rubber mounts and counter balancers but the softails are solid mount, so when you take out the counter balancers and say they smooth up at speed like the rubber mount Dyna, is it really that smooth even without the rubber mounts and counter balancers?

[@BobBob-fp5fn]

Timken Bearing necessary when doing the bottom end for m8?

[@MoonshineHarley]

No. We run them on larger builds like our 135, 143 or 147 cubic inch M8’s. You can do it as a precaution but the M8 lower end is designed better than the Twin Cam and we haven’t seen issues with the stock bearing setup.

[@talkingrock7011]

@@MoonshineHarley how about the HD 131 kit ?

[@Heavy69Metal]

Bottom line Which one is best bang for the buck

[@MoonshineHarley]

All great but we like the S&S wheels with the Carrillo Rods. We have some newly designed Carrillo rods coming that will only be available from us.

[@itemps]

Should I pin and weld stock crank on 103tc when just doing cams? Plan on beating her up pretty good haha

[@MoonshineHarley]

Just cams, not really needed. If you told us it was going to have high comp pistons and ported heads we would recommend.

[@itemps]

@@MoonshineHarley gotcha. Ya no porting or anything

[@kyledavis6127]

Have you ever seen a OME throttle body warp from the heat on M8?

[@MoonshineHarley]

Yes, the stock manifold.

[@dmitrykhramov1832]

👍👍👍👍👍👍👍

[@richardbandolik1503]

I have a 2017 RGU with stage 3 and now have 95,000 miles and was thinking of having S&S 124 kit installed. Do I have to have the flywheel replaced or should I?

[@user-dw9lh1rq9h]

yes i ve ate right crank bearing race on left side and left side again at 69000 , this time right bearing race was spinning on shaft miles at another 78000 miles later.i ride about 42 k miles a year .My bike is a 124 so not sure that is helping .I would be nice to your high mileage bike and when you rebuild put new crank in for sure.

[@KevinButler816]

Good video! I have a question though, on the Harley 131 kits did you say you use the S&S stroker flywheel or the stock flywheel.

[@MoonshineHarley]

We use the S&S Flywheel with there rods and we have a couple setups we do with the S&S flywheel and longer Carrillo Rods. P

[@josevalencia5145]

🤙🏽👍🏽

[@Heavy69Metal]

Can the stock harley be made into 4.625 with Carrillo H beam race rods?

[@MoonshineHarley]

Yes but you’ll have to get a custom set of short rods from us. If you need this please email Jamie a good phone number and he’ll call you, [e-mail]

[@Heavy69Metal]

@@MoonshineHarley so a stock 4.5 Harley flywheel can be made into a 4.625 stroke va original 4.5 stroke with carillon H beam Jon tappered rods

[@Heavy69Metal]

@@MoonshineHarleyemailed you

[@richardanderson4916]

If the stock flywheel never shifts, what causes run out to increase?

[@Skin070]

I agree what causes runout ?

[@xaviercbivens]

Think they are talking about the pin walking out & rods & everything shifting .

[@joshjones3208]

Are you guys not running the counterbalancer?

[@MoonshineHarley]

We build them both ways.

[@Pwpapa.7]

😅😎😂😂😂😂😂👍🥃🥃🥃🥃 yeah he’s just making shit up. You guys are fucking hilarious. Love your show. Love your builds.

[@Heavy69Metal]

The S&S Stroker 4.625 do they sell Carrillo rods for it?

[@MoonshineHarley]

We can build one with Carrillo rods. Email Jamie at [e-mail]

[@Heavy69Metal]

@@MoonshineHarley did no response yet

[@mtbiker1027]

What kind of horsepower is a stock rank and rods good for?

[@speedyReedyEnterprise]

185 ish max I’d say. I run stock plug, trued, welded.

[@doubletap1headshot]

Where is the Darkhorse crank? It’s up there and or better

[@paulhewson4600]

Right

[@MoonshineHarley]

Darkhorse builds most of our Flywheels for us.

[@Heavy69Metal]

S&S has a 4.625 and a 131 piston and jugs. What’s your thoughts on this

[@MoonshineHarley]

We run that setup a lot. It’s a beast with our heads and 588 cam!

[@Heavy69Metal]

@@MoonshineHarley 588? S&S Gear cams

[@Heavy69Metal]

I was thinking of 550 S&S gear cam with 4.625 and 131 screaming eagle heads and stock heads

[@travismccarty515]

I'm down to make something cool out of the spare parts! Tell me what kinda sculptures or whatever you may want or I can create something one of a kind! Send em my way to Ponci's Welding and Machine in Orland California

[@justal4930]

Hi Moonshine team, Many thanks for your explanations.. a 128 SS kit with TTS-200 cam just added on my Fatbob, In U'r opinion, is the stock crankshaft enough to handle this power or you always recommand a stronger flywheel?

[@doubletap1headshot]

I am not an employee of moonshine HD and I’m not a tech, but I would never use a stock Harley crank on an $8,000 plus build. You can have your crank repaired by pinning, wielding and balancing if you choose, but then again by the time you do all that, you could buy a darkhorse for $2,099.99. Bullet proof your build and get a Darkhorse or S&S Crank.

[@jeffhelm7581]

I'm doing a 131 build and I'm doing an S&S crank.

[@MoonshineHarley]

If it has stock heads you are fine. We like to upgrade the bottom end when we go over 145HP. We also haven’t seen a flywheel fail. We have seen the bearing ho on the H-D stock rods on 2017 and 2018 models.

[@doubletap1headshot]

With the crank….. I would rather have it and not need it than need it and not have it. It all comes down to the money you want to spend to have the peace of kind of a bullet proof build.

[@chroniclesofnanner9543]

What are you guys doing build wise to get 170+ hp?

[@MoonshineHarley]

Depends on the build. Are larger 135, 143, and 147 cubic inch M8’s making over 170hp and even more. Some of them are not for everyday riding. We are releasing a new street 135 cubic inch upgrade which will be available in January 2021. It’ll cove with MHP +2.5 mm oversized valve ported heads, pistons, cylinders and our new MHP .588 lift cam. Engine cases get bore to except the larger cylinders and it’s a beast!

[@chroniclesofnanner9543]

@@MoonshineHarley very cool! Thanks for the reply

[@Fathead1137]

@@MoonshineHarley definitely interested in that 135 street/touring bike

[@jeffhelm7581]

Valve work huh? Learn something at Branch?

[@Heavy69Metal]

If your going to change your flywheel/ whole crank. Which is the best one to choose and what else should be done to it to maximize its potential. I’m looking at darkhorse

[@MoonshineHarley]

The strongest setup would be the S&S half’s with Carrillo rods. Our most popular setup is a stock H-D flywheel with Carrillo rods. We haven’t had a stock flywheel that Darkhorse has trued, pined and welded with Carrillo rods fail. Both are great but one is a little more robust than the other.

[@Heavy69Metal]

@@MoonshineHarley what about 107 flywheel and going to a 131 kit boring the case out

[@Heavy69Metal]

@@MoonshineHarley I have a M8 107 I am thinking of the S&S 131 with stroker 4.625 flywheel and also add Carrillo rods. Can most Harley speed shops do the work and the case bore and head work 1mm - 2mm over size valves in stock heads and mill work as well as timken bearing upgrade?

[@Heavy69Metal]

@@MoonshineHarley so S&S crank say 4.625 with a 128 kit with 4.25 pistons Carrillo rods. Is that possible? S&S has a piston jug kit says need 4.625 crank. www.sscycle.com/products/131-stroker-cylinder-and-piston-kit-with-black-fins-for-2017-up-m8-models/

[@Heavy69Metal]

@@MoonshineHarley which is more robust?

[@francoismagne4208]

Hi GUYS, THANK YOU first FOR ALL you do. Just a quick question, do you believe I need to change my flywheel, when I upgrade my 103 breakout from 2016, to a 117 ci with all the good parts of performance, like 594 reapers cams from feuling , feuling HP+oil pomp, feuling pushrods, hpi58 MM throttle body, cnc heads 89 MM from S and S..? Thank you for tour help 🤙😊

[@MoonshineHarley]

You’ll be getting up there in power so if it was one of our bikes we would do it. It’s nice knowing you have a solid foundation when you start twisting that throttle. Plus when you have your flywheel trued they come out super straight with hardly any runout, huge benefit for longevity.

[@francoismagne4208]

Thank you so much for your answer, I will cross the fingers then, and as soon as I can, I will order a nice flywheel to go in there for generating less fear to turn the throttle hard if I wish... Will ride with respect first.. 😊 Thank you 🙏

[@aaroncox3340]

What's the largest run out you've come across in an 107 M8.

[@MoonshineHarley]

out of spec!

[@skippynj1979]

@@MoonshineHarley 0.013?

[@aaroncox3340]

Damn.

[@aaroncox3340]

So what would you say an acceptable amount of run-out would be if I was looking at an after market oil pump, cam plate etc, along, with maybe gears instead of a chain? 0.003 ??

[@skippynj1979]

@@aaroncox3340 0.001.... not allot of room if your using gears.. going to need a crank... my m8 came out of the factory at 0.004 on the cam side. At 1000mils i was at 0.0005 and at the sproket i was 0.008. I'm not the average rider and I'm 0 to 100 Though the gears at redline every chance i get... I'm now getting a bottom end by darkhorse with the Timken conversion.

[@paulstorm5655]

@moonshine, I had the pleasure of speaking with Nick today regarding a twin cam build. I sincerely can’t express how much gratitude I have for his professionalism, honesty, and blunt transparency. I’ve been a HD rider for over three decades, and I don’t remember a better experience speaking to anyone at any HD dealer. @Harleydavidson, you should use Moonshine as your benchmark on how to run the rest of your dealerships.

[@jaysonwilliams8045]

Isnt that heavy metel or for balancing the crank?

[@MoonshineHarley]

?

[@chevyon37s]

If you’re doing a build and taking out the crank... absolutely no reason to skip upgrading the crank. Harley stock cranks are notoriously trash for high HP builds. Lots of twin cams out there with poor runout and scissored cranks!

[@vf12497439]

To bad you guys didn't have a credit payment plan🤣

[@christinarutherford7032]

Do not EVER take the balances out of an M*8. It will vibrate the bike to pieces. Maybe a drag bike is OK but definitely not street.

[@ironpug42]

Dont you mean a ducealator

[@vonsamson2209]

Is there anything on a harley davidson motorcycle worth the money I paid 32,000 for my hard candy hotrod red flake 2018 flhxs upgraded engine upgraded stereo all led lighting with harley parts I believe so but according to you guys it's all junk and let's replace everything with non harley parts. SORRY I DONT HAVE 100,000 TO BLOW ON A HARLEY DAVIDSON CLONE

[@Johnclark300]

Harleys are awsome but keep in mind when you do any modifications to any engine the #1 thing that gets taken out is reliability I care more about having reliability than a fast Harley. Harleys were not made for speed they are cruisers not crotch rockets like that happen crap you see going 800 plus miles an hour like a Kawasaki ninja ZX 14

[@MoonshineHarley]

Lots of our kits are just a reliable as stock and sometime more reliable. There is a point when you go past the normal reliability but most of are build stay within. We do specialize in building high HP big baggers that’s slap some street bikes around.

[@PrivateUsername]

Stock Harley rods are garbage; check out that missing bushing.

[@MoonshineHarley]

The top of the Rods where designed without a bronze bushings.

[@Scottish_Viking84]

Lol, edge cut? It is called chamfered.

[@MoonshineHarley]

Sure! Unless you have us do it than it’s an Edge Cut or Pro Cut.

[@munciebill8674]

While I enjoyed viewing your KZbin videos, I will no longer support KZbin who has now entered the realm of political censorship and therefore must unsubscribe.

[@MoonshineHarley]

We will start posting on Rumble soon. MOONSHINE HARLEY on RUMBLE

[@thomaskirkpatrick4031]

I shouldn't have to spend thousands of dollars, because Harley Davidson is now producing cheap crap.

[@MoonshineHarley]

They don’t produce cheap crap silly. We happen to double the factory horsepower in most of our builds so when we do this we upgrade most parts to handle it.