Stop Giving EVERYTHING Achievements.

[@Argacyan]

I think one category of its own is also achievements which require you to complete a mission or level in a linear game. It's nothing special, but despite those achievements being basically placeholders I think they're a good placeholder because they allow easy access to a statistic: How many people played how much into that game.

[@wyn9693]

they also give me access to the knowledge of when I was that far in something the first time, which is cool if it's a game that I come back to

[@psy-fi64]

complete the tutorial: 60%

[@fgfhjfhjfbhfghf5771]

It's always funny seeing the percentage drop off at a particularly annoying part. Like that one desert mission in Ace Combat 7

[@elianhg2144]

@@psy-fi64the 40% are game joirnalists

[@Hutch2Much]

it can also be really funny. did you know that getting S ranks in sonic generations is so piss easy, more people have gotten an S rank than have beaten the second zone?

[@icommitdie8756]

some of these retro achievements feel like when you go out if your way to go to the dishes, but your mom tells you to, so now you don’t want to do it

[@RadicalKongsyom]

I checked out the site, and I would like to commend whoever named the earthbound achievements. They gave us gems like "Is this legal?,", "It's a secret to everyone", "Four fried chickens and a coke" (and other Blues Brothers references) and "Jumping the sharks". These names are great, and all fit the actions you need to perform the terrible achievements.

[@PurpleTriangle-ye4qv]

I like achievements because they can give me stuff to do in games I don’t have much left to do.

[@A_Goose_YT]

EXACTLY.

[@lisatroiani6119]

Don’t you have anything better to do?

[@A_Goose_YT]

@@lisatroiani6119 bruh leave them alone loser.

[@DoctorMario606]

​@lisatroiani6119 there's such a thing as having free time bruh

[@lisatroiani6119]

@@DoctorMario606 someone didn’t get the reference

[@thedocblock6421]

I think Undertale's PS4 trophies are more than just funny joke achievements, they're thematically relevant to the story itself. The story of Undertale has always had a big focus on fading emotional investment, especially under the lens of completionism. How far will you go just to say you've done *everything?* What point is there even to doing everything when it starts to deconstruct your attachment to the world, turning funny and lovable characters into repeating lines of dialogue? Will you take away their happy ending, just to see another? Will you do the worst thing possible just to see what happens? Will you sit in front of this dog box constantly sliding in individual pieces of money, doing something patently unfun just to say you've completed something? "Don't you have anything better to do?" That's not just a sick burn from Toby after you get through the thing he specifically designed for people not to do, it's a line from the game itself (And spoilers so stop reading if you haven't gotten to this part of the game.) It's a line from Asriel, and Flowey by proxy. Who is the concept of fading emotional investment more than anything else - he's someone who had the ability to save, reload, reset. And he used to do all the good things, before getting bored. And starting doing other things, seeing what would happen, if he could get the things that everyone else said to change just a little. Even if it meant murder. Even if it meant genocide. He's the end result of what happens when a player stops caring about the characters, and starts caring about seeing everything he can. And then, at the end of the game, when he's given a soul, given a chance to feel, when that emotional invest has returned to him, when he can feel and care about these people again, you can find him after backtracking through the entire game in the final moments. And when you've literally walked your entire journey back to the beginning, he just asks... Don't you have anything better to do?

[@cuenta007]

No

[@thebestgummybear9744]

Yes

[@fgfhjfhjfbhfghf5771]

Ironically most of the people who backtracked for the Asriel dialogue did so because they were so attached to the world and characters

[@MizunoKetsuban]

Flowey actually says it on more than just that occasion. Basically anywhere that you can redo encounters with him, he'll eventually say it as his final line. But since it's Flowey, not Asriel, it's much snarkier in nature in those instances. The point is that it's pretty much the catchphrase of the game for those who look for it.

[@LucasMiddleNameandLastname22]

This comment has better writing skills than any essay i've ever worked on, what.

[@avena7506]

One thing that I love about Celeste is that the Achievements alone will have you stop playing for them at 176 berries, the goldens which are the hardest part of the game go out of their way to ensure that you do them for yourself, not some reward, or a platinum trophy, or whatever, you do it for the intrinsic value of growing as a player and going that extra mile, which makes them brutal, but also a special kind of satisfying.

[@EktoAnim]

hardest part of the game? ermm… I think farewell is harder

[@Cabinet_Man]

@@EktoAnimfarewell golden

[@EktoAnim]

@@Cabinet_Man hmm does that even exist

[@Cabinet_Man]

@@EktoAnim yup and only a few hundred people have achieved it

[@CanYouDontirl]

@@Cabinet_Man 716 is the official number of people who have recorded runs of it right now. There's definitely a small number of people who didn't record them collecting it too.

[@NotArmani31]

I HATE achievements where you have to do a crazy amount of grinding or trying to build up something. When done wrong they aren't even challenging, just really annoying.

[@michaeljo9384]

Team Fortress 2's achievement: *Sweat intensely*

[@nijucow]

Nobody's forcing you to obtain them

[@NotArmani31]

@@michaeljo9384 I've heard horror stories of those lol, thankfully I haven't played that game yet

[@michaeljo9384]

@@NotArmani31 You might wanna try it (but don't try do 100% the achievement for your sanity, especially in Casual but Casual is ruined by bad actors hosting bots currently so only Community Servers is playable)

[@guestyguest2534]

Bro FF3 3D remaster has a achevement to get all jobs to level 99... FOR ALL 4 PARTY MEMBERS. Each party member can only level 1 job at a time and there's around 20 jobs. What were they thinking!?

[@themc3140]

I find John Gutter's achievements specifically to be a stroke of genius. You basically get the first one for free, wheras the other two require what is basically a speedrun and a P-rank. Since you got that one achievement, the other two will probably bug you until you're skilled enough to get them, allowing the level to serve as not just an introductory level for the game, but also as an introduction to the postgame.

[@Keeganator42]

I like the way Terraria does achievements. Some are obvious like defeating bosses, or killing certain enemies, but others are downright useless, hilarious, or torture. One is called “Unusual Survival Strategies” and requires you to drink water, which restores 20 health, while drowning. Another called “And Good Riddance” requires you to purify the world of Crimson, Corruption, and Hallow, which are biomes that spread to adjacent blocks. This achievement is very difficult.

[@tenaxity]

supreme fishing minion 😔

[@steveminecraft5887]

the achievements also serve as a good way to know what to do next... sometimes.

[@Some_random_internet_guy]

personally, i think henry stickmin has really good achievements because of how they don't force you to change how you play the game, they're just things to collect/spot while going through

[@OctoAmbush-nc4xt]

henry stickmin is the only game i have 100% completed

[@amazinglynoone]

@@OctoAmbush-nc4xt Me too, what the hell

[@HauntedKnight-cj8kv]

Got a thousand 'chievements in game but achieved nothin' in real life.

[@deserted4ever]

amen….

[@The_Deep_Blue]

amen brother, straight bars in fact

[@PloverTechOfficial]

I usually never look at achievements, like why would I look at spoilers for a game I’m going to play? Which is why I don’t get all achievements, I just get a nice surprise when I do something cool or unexpected!

[@trashgang_]

As someone who discovered RA last year, I'd like to weigh in with my thoughts on the matter. Not every game is suitable to have achievements, I will give you that. I can't speak for Earthbound in particular because I haven't played it (yet), and I must admit that some achievements aren't well designed (case in point: the SM64 set originally had achievements for getting every coin in every stage. These have since been moved to their own subset after some backlash). However, not only are most achievements on the site rather fun to hunt down, but the mere purpose of the site itself is bound to attract people who'd enjoy earning them and drive away those who don't. I can confidently say that playing Banjo-Kazooie and Star Fox was made substantially more enjoyable by virtue of achievements existing. I even endured trough 200 hours of repetive grind on Destiny Islands merely because it was a set on RA. I just enjoy getting achievements that much that I'm willing to push trough for the mastery badge, and I believe most of the site's active users are no different than me. Not to mention, the entire site is entirely made for and by its community. People can vote to modify achievement sets if they disagree with the creator's choices. Games on RA don't have achievements because some people demanded for it to be so (like with Undertale on PS4), they have them because someone cared enough to develop a set for it. Every developer on the site is a volunteer. They do get shiny badges on their profile for being developers, but if they do it they must enjoy making achievements to some degree. That's how I feel about the site as a whole, really. The games themselves are fun as is, but for some people it's even better when you slap an achievement set on top of it and that's why RA exists.

[@ksawerx9277]

Here's the thing. 99% of people won't look at achievements before playing a game, and just play the darn game. If an achiv directs you towards a fun side gag, isn't it better that a person who would've missed it otherwise, st least got to see it? And when the person doesn't see it, then I doesn't change anything since they will find the gag on their own and then the achievement will pop up after. I don't think the game acknowledging the fact that you did something, ruins the fact that you did it. Achievements are intrinsically worthless. A bad, un-fun achievement can always just be skipped. Imagine if there was, for example, an achievement that has a 1% chance of appearing when you open the game. Now, that's an awful achievement, but no-one's forcing you to get it. I do think that skill/gameplay focused games like pizza tower just have an advantage when it comes to achievements beacuse for simplistic RPG's like earthbound and Undertale, there just aren't any Gameplay related achievements that are fun to get. For my indie rpg example, Sea of Stars. It has achievements related to story progression (beating bosses), completion (finding hidden treasure chests, etc.), and only a few handful of Gameplay related achievements. The only one I can think of from the top of my head is to bounce the boomerang special attack (think: green shell from Mario and Luigi) 20 times in a row. Sea of Starts already has a much more engaging battle system with blocks and stuff (like in paper Mario), and even then it's struggling. All in all. Being rewarded with an extrinsic achievement for an otherwise intrinsic action doesn't take away the intrinsic value of it. You can do a job because you like it, and because you get paid to do it (literally what you're doing with KZbin, even if it's a hobby, you're getting paid). If there was an achievement in Undertale for stacking 30 hotdogs on your head, that doesn't take away to hilarity of the situation. And for a person that might've missed the joke, they wouldn't have gotten any reward otherwise at all.

[@TheOnePrinceMeatball]

Looking at the achievements before playing a game is like looking at the comments before watching a video.

[@EulerAlert]

​@@TheOnePrinceMeatballI feel targeted right now

[@lukebytes5366]

I imagine most people don't look at achievements before playing a game, but they will look at them AFTER beating a game, looking for things to do. At that point, it does take away the feeling of the moment compared to finding it yourself. Yes, people get to see that fun side gag, but finding that gag through exploration and happenstance is very different from deliberately looking for it. It's no longer an organic secret, but an excuse to milk time out of you for a miniscule amount of side content. Regardless of whether achievements are actually worth anything, that's the mentality they set in a player's mind.

[@smolbrendan5978]

@@TheOnePrinceMeatball don't call me out like this

[@bela-b]

@@lukebytes5366But the thing is that nowadays we have so many games to play that after most people beat a game they go play another game. So having the achievement gives you a reason to come back after playing

[@DaniDoyle]

Finally had a chance to watch this, and i 100% agree. while the dopamine from achivements is nice, i feel like far too often they are simply there as time wasters. I platinumed Bloodborne and Spiderman because the tasks the achievements gave me were genuinely interesting challenges, but more importantly it wasnt tied to literally everything in the game (and as such, the non achievement side content was also fun)

[@georgegrenvillethe7thpm176]

Hello Dani!

[@Designed1]

My favorite gaming achievement is the one in Stanley Parable where you have to stop playing the game for 5 years

[@LucasMiddleNameandLastname22]

Stanley Parable is probably one of the only games that subtly tells you to literally go outside.

[@cyanidepizza]

my favourite is the one in the stanley parable ultra deluxe where you have to stop playing for 10 years

[@SandwitchZebra]

If I could make an addition as someone who often hunts achievements and has 100%ed several achievement lists for games I love I can absolutely say there are good achievement lists, and bad achievement lists. But I think your look at them as purely extrinsic is limiting. I find achievements less like a checklist and more like a map. I don’t want to miss anything, I want to experience everything, and achievements are a good way of doing that for me. The little chime is one thing, but I’ve always valued what they lead me to more than anything. Not to mention, achievements are almost like a snapshot of your playthrough. There are days where I’ll scroll through my achievements and reminisce on the moment. You’re framing achievements as if they’re this dispassionate list of tasks that takes away from the experience, that makes it just a bunch of items to collect. I’m not gonna lie, some lists are like that. But I don’t think tying a small, in-game event to an achievement ruins the value of that event. It doesn’t spoil that interaction. It doesn’t stop you from reading the text. It just lets you know “hey, this exists” and gives you a little badge for deciding to do it. The badge is nice, but the real meat of the achievement was what it led you to. The badge is really more of a souvenir than anything. Still, this is a very well-made and well-argued video, and I can certainly understand your stance even if I don’t agree with it. It’s very clear you value games as an art, and this clearly comes out of a love for the medium and not out of hate for achievements. I like that.

[@DoctorMario606]

Personally I don't get where he's coming from at all. I just don't see how achievements being there take away from an experience. The people who'll enjoy them will get them and the people who won't just ignore the set altogether.

[@ZeekarPRIME]

Never even thought about seeing achievements like this, but this is super interesting the pizza tower achievements are so genius, as you say they guide you towards how to improve while still making you rely on your own skill to actually earn them, it's perfect for this type of platforming game I think the earthbound custom achievements COULD work but not in the game they are in. Potentially for something like an MMO where grind is inherent, and where what you gain from it isn't just a waste of time, but rather grants you resources you can use elsewhere and also a flashy badge to show off to other people in the same game

[@fatyoshi696]

probably some of my favorite achievements ever are on your only move is hustle which is a fighting game, while it has a handful of generic progress achievements like "win x matches" it also does something fantastic with a couple of its achievements, which is tasking you with figuring out advanced techniques on your own to get them. Stuff like "combo off of burst", "combo off of robot's command grab", "launch yourself with wizard's spark bomb" and "land 3 palm strikes in one combo as ninja" are all basically optional mini-tutorial puzzles that just say "hey here's this cool thing you can do, can you figure out how?". None of them are particularly hard to get if you just experiment with your character's kit, and the game also clearly focuses on the fact that the challenge is only to figure it out and not to apply it in a real match, since every achievement of this type is obtainable in training mode where you have full control over both characters, i wish more games used achievements to teach obscure tech like this

[@cornflakegaming9883]

When Flowey kindly asked me to leave everyone in peace after a pacifist run, I genuinely felt bad I was planning on doing a GENOCIDE run. I haven’t touched Undertale in years because of that.

[@darkkirby714]

Pizza Tower's achievements might be the great, but what isn't great is McPig's (lead dev) driving skills (in reference that in a recent stream he fucked everything up while playing Dr. Robotnik's Ring Racers)

[@amiano59e4]

pizza towers achievements are the equavalent of "do this thing cus it would be funny or its a actuall challenge

[@Notdog610]

9 hours and he only got first place TWICE

[@LucasMiddleNameandLastname22]

i am willing to bet my left liver that McPig got his driving license from a pizza box.

[@rare_edamimi_fangirl]

One of my favorite achievements in a game is the platinum for Don't Starve. When Ps4 forced them to add trophies, the devs of the game were pretty annoyed at that, so they added a new item called the Accomploshrine. When you craft the shrine (using a pretty hefty amount of materials, mind you), you get the first achievement "Look upon my works, ye mighty...". You can then crank the lever on the Accomplishing to wind it up. After you wind it 25 times, a firework will shoot out, and your character will be like "yay I did it!" or something along those lines. Okay, funny joke, you get the achievement from that and are done right? Wrong. In order to get the achievement, you need to wind the Accomploshrine up an additional SEVEN-HUNDRED TIMES. Each time shooting another firework and having your character get excited again. Only then will you get the second achievement, "...and Despair", and earn the platinum. The achievement names reference the poem Ozymandius, referring to how the Accomploshrine was meaningless, just like the king's "works" from the original poem. I'm pretty sure that the reason they didn't want to add achievements is because in old versions of the game, they actually DID have achievements, but it created an issue where most players just did all the achievements and then stopped playing, whereas the point of the game is just to survive as long as possible in creative ways, so they removed them.

[@lukebytes5366]

Good achievements should be built on strengths that are already present in the game. If the game is built around optional tools that make the game easier like mega man or shovel knight, make an achievement that forbids those tools. If the game is built on exploration and secrets, turn the achievement list into it's own hint map. Achievements exist in the first place because people want to get more out of the game, not because people want to do chores that happen to be in a game format. (I'll give undertale credit though since satire is it's own strength)

[@MynameisnotGraey]

Why are you viewing them as tasks? That's not what they are. They're not forcing you to do anything. No game creator expects you to get all of the achievements. Achievements are supposed to commemorate your... well, achievements. Honestly, I think you're looking too deep into Pizza Tower, but even if you're not, that kind of stuff has never been a standard. Achievements also highlight stuff you could do if you want more playtime and provide recognition for doing impressive stuff. They were never meant to just be tests of skill really. Also, there are such a thing as hidden achievements on steam, which don't spoil you or direct you to anything. Also, I think if you're looking in the achievements to find what to do, especially before a game, you shouldn't complain when the reward is extrinsic. The kind of silly achievements in PlayStation Undertale are exactly what I want. Achievements aren't forced, and they're not requirements unless you want to 100% a game, which isn't what you're really ever intended to do. (I do agree, though, that forcing achievements makes literally no sense)

[@MynameisnotGraey]

Like I agree video games should be completed as the author intended (at least first). But you keep making achievements out to be a forced standard of completion, when they're only like the last third of that.

[@JackitK]

It's nice to see others concerns about placing achievements into everything. I feel like I can especially vibe with the first portion of this video because I have a similar story. So, I made a ROM hack of my favorite game and eventually discovered someone actually made achievements for it in RetroAchievements. It was a bitter-sweet feeling. On one hand, I was honored that enough people enjoyed it that they were willing to put the time and effort to make up achievements for it. But on the other, I felt like I lost a bit of agency to my own creation. More importantly, however, I was worried people wouldn't be able to enjoy it as much because achievement hunters might feel obligated to do things that they didn't find fun. The biggest offender was an achievement that required a sequence break that I accidentally introduced into the game. The fact it existed wasn't a problem to me, but the fact there was an achievement behind it spotlighted it and made people feel like they had to do it to "100%" it. I think the worst part I think if I had more agecny over my own achievements, I'd be more happy with them. Anyways, great video. It's nice to see people talking about this. Not because I think achievements are inheritely bad, but because they have pros and cons that I feel go underlooked, due to them being considered part of a "staus quo".

[@LuxyHugs]

What romhack did you make? I'm curious

[@MarioMario369]

I'm curious too.

[@uiinpui]

"how it encourages the players to keep going" *meanwhile video with flowey telling the soul to die in the background*

[@ShadwSonic]

On the subject of "Sesame Seed tier" cheevs... I'm actually the sort of player that, without something pointing me towards these little moments, will completely bypass them. Not because I wouldn't care about their intrinsic value, but because I wouldn't look outside of "100%" much. Having achievements of this sort directs me to these sorts of moments, meaning that for my personality, _they are essential to experiencing said moments._ On the _other_ hand, I'm not a fan of traditional RPGs. Outside of Chrono Trigger, every single one has had something that either discounts it as such in my mind (Paper Mario is prominent there), or is way too easy to enjoy (Pokemon Red), or is obnoxious with grinding (Final Fantasy 9 and 10)... so the presence of the "random drop" cheevs definitely doesn't help. Not to mention, because all the cheevo sets are made by different people, quality isn't always consistent. There are of course standards, but some are standout while others lack something. My own sets for instance: they're excellent in terms of titles and descriptions, but are pretty lacking in non-progression.

[@Granad784]

"way too easy to enjoy" mean you like the traditional rpg

[@ShadwSonic]

@@Granad784 No... I mean "way too easy to enjoy". See the following point where I say others are obnoxious with grinding? That's true of _every single one I consider traditional,_ with the sole exception of Chrono Trigger.

[@Granad784]

@@ShadwSonic Yes but i am not talking about that one you imbecile.

[@sipcee]

how did you have to grind in ff10, did you just run from every battle you ran into other than bosses did you do advanced sphere grid and just make your builds random i have never once had to grind in that game

[@Granad784]

@@ShadwSonic you are dumber than i thought

[@maytegonzalez1778]

Toby: "Collect Four Items" Me: *dies*

[@GameKnight237]

I think it’s pretty neat when you find one of those cute interactions and the game basically says: great job! But it’s kinda bad when you’re actively trying to get them So, I think you should always play a game before hunting (specifically games like undertale, earthbound etc, the games that are actual experiences)

[@aziamuth6856]

I have a friend who, when playing a game, will make sure to unlock every single achievement, even if the game ends up not being fun for him. This also means that if there's knowledge of a certain achievement that it's less than desirable, he will most likely not play the game, which is a shame because he's missing out on Final Fantasy IX

[@bulb9970]

Point that he tried to make: Achievements are unnecessary Actual conclusion: Gameplay of turn based RPGs sucks

[@LuxyHugs]

@bulb9970 there are plenty of good turn based rpgs, but imo your experience of them mainly isn't gameplay driven. It's a mix of things usually, but a good story can keep one hooked better on a mediocre battle system.

[@aramis4347]

0:14 ONE PIECE

[@xexat]

I will never forget the statement Toby gave on if the PS4 port will have a achievements I'm sorry So it won't have them? No, it will. That's why I said I'm sorry.

[@JoSephGD]

ace attorney retroachievements gives an achievement every time you finish a line of testimony by objecting to a statement

[@Biscuit_gamer34]

I like earning achievements because it just gives me good memories. But I agree it’s starting to be an issue. Like just one or two achievements please!! NOT A BILLION ACHIEVEMENTS LIKE WALKING 100 Steps!!

[@paradoxglitch1108]

I watched a video from cadicerusa or whatever how his names correctly spelled and in the Ratatouille video game he got an achievement for watching a cutscene which was the very first cutscene in the game and he hadn't even done anything yet, the only other achievement that's even as close to being pathetic was when he got one for pressing the left stick in bee movie.

[@alexandersotomurillo5795]

Left trigger, but I know

[@cubechan1938]

I'm not going to be the guy to correct you, because "Cadicerusa" is the damn funniest and honestly most unbelievable misspellings of that username that could exist. I'm sure Jim would make a joke about that, but maybe not.

[@Xeinok]

Personally, I find achievements really helpful because there's like 800000 billion games out there in the world now so it's just nice QoL to have a goal-oriented way to go about playing a large number of games. I especially love the achievements that point me towards cool easter eggs or hidden content that a ton of people would otherwise miss. Just think about how popular "game breakdown", "hidden secrets of X game", and easter egg videos are KZbin are - it makes sense that achievements built into games would help people to experience these as well.

[@AnimationDude_]

Toby is a genius

[@JesterQueenAnne]

I mostly disagree with your points here, more than anything because I don't think extrinsic achievements are a thing in most games. You'll only go out of your way for an achievement if *YOU* want to. If all you get is a trophy, sticker or whatever, that's just the game rewarding you for doing an achievement you wanted to do. Not only achievements, but 100%ing a game as well. No, getting those endings in Undertale was not a waste of time more than any other thing I did in the game, I did them because I wanted to see them. I got nothing out of it neither did I want to, the reward was completely intrinsic.

[@lordbreadbug414]

Really good, thoughtful, and well put together video. I really do love the concept of achievements, but feel like so many games drop the ball when figuring out how to implement them in a meaningful way. Achievements, to me, shouldn’t so much push menial, grindy, or luck based tasks, but ways to push a player to achieve challenging goals or hone their skill at a game. Some of my favourite childhood gaming memories are playing on Hypixel and working to win at mini games while simultaneously managing odd restrictions that made me view them in a whole new way. This isn’t to say it handles achievements perfectly (believe you me it has a lot of sucky, grindy ones), but at its best I think it demonstrates how achievements can work to better games, rather than detract from them.

[@mcheremnov10]

Really cool video! Another reason why Pizza Tower's level achievements work so well is because they can all be beaten in one attempt (except for the first level), creating an extra intrinsic challenge to practice when just getting a p rank becomes too easy. This makes the 101% speedrun category feel fun, but not too tedious. Really recommend it😄

[@Kitty255Again]

counterpoint: getting a PlayStation trophy feels good

[@BellandPantisCorperation]

Me when i see not only Peppino, but also Sans in one singular thumbnail: *click!*

[@SomeoneNooneTomatoes]

I got an achievement for watching the credits of an indie game, peak game design.

[@BagOfMagicFood]

0:48 Oatmeal, Kirby is a pink guy

[@shanerowsley]

My favorite achievements are those that are directly related to gameplay, whether it be to teach or to test you. I remember learning about the mechanic called EX skills from the achievement list in the mega man zero collection, and it has since become one of my favorite games mostly in part to that mechanic. I also got hours of fun doing all the challenge runs in the shovel knight series.

[@DamageMaximo]

KEEP GIVING EVERYTHING ACHIEVEMENTS!!!! PROGRESSION, CHALLENGES, EASTER EGGS, UNLOCKS, YOU NAME IT, KEEP GIVING EVERYTHING ACHIEVEMENTS!!!

[@lisatroiani6119]

15:24 i once saw a video of someone getting legitimately mad at undertales achievements and it’s really funny lol

[@Angwiser-zk7vk]

10:00 or an achievement for Buying Magicarp in the Kanto games called "Fish out of water"

[@AsianRailgun]

I think that's the reason why Steam hides achievements from you if you haven't obtained them yet. It's so it doesn't take away that feeling of surprise for first time players.

[@Coupon4Copper]

You have a poster of Hawaii: Part II in your virtual room so your take is automatically correct

[@torterratortellini6641]

QUIT HAVING FUN!!!

[@stumonster6091]

Undertale not having achievements annoys me, because Undertale did everything for me when it came out. It was an incredible experience and had me laugh, I've played through it with many friends voicing it all. And in the end. There's nothing to show this love for it. 100% a game to me shows off how much I love a game or dedication. Yes I get the gimmick where "no that's not the point it's an experience" Yeah... and I'd love to show my experience and love for the game on steam, but the best I can do is put it as a fav game. And I have no real amount of hours on my account because I had them on my brothers account and when I played with friends they'd play on their accounts. I've seen everything through others and I have nothing to show on my steam profile, if there were achievements, as simple as the Easter eggs or endings I'd do them all. Because I love the game. No other reason, I've already seen all there is that has been found.

[@zackaryhendrickson8290]

What I will say is that achievements are most definitely not needed in all games. Mainly, bc games were made to enjoy and not search for a niche thing. Now, as someone who does enjoy achievements, i like to get achievements just to show proof that i really enjoy a game and I've done everything. Obviously, games can have easy ways of showing this, but most games just make you have achievements, and you can say "ive done everything in the game" without having to show much if anything besides a number that says 34/34. For some people, achievements make games more enjoyable it gives a challenge that they'd love to complete and have proof of without having to record it or anything. But not everyone enjoys having the competitive guy show them how good they are as it can discourage them or ruin their fun, or it can make them accept that challenge and they do it too. Basically, achievements can make a solo game into a competitive game

[@TheNotSoGreat1]

I, personally, am an achievement addict. I just enjoy knowing that I have official made the most of the purchase of a game. It's also nice being rewarded for completing a difficult challenge in a less direct way than just an item Still, there are games that don't need them and a lot of developers forget that

[@arikomart7209]

You achieved an achievement, not go think properly-

[@whyrwehere]

I like how the Switch doesn't have achievements. It allows me to play through games without the stress of collecting everything. I only collect everything if I really enjoy a game or if there's extra bonus levels behind it. Achievements can be fun if you really enjoy a game and want to get more out of it, but they usually end up being more tedious than fun.

[@DoctorMario606]

I don't get this. If you feel pressured to get achievements for a game you don't care about that's a you problem. I'd rather they be there for the people who love the game than not.

[@sipcee]

@@DoctorMario606 i see this argument a lot by the anti-achievement types, plenty here in this comment section even that "oh well then i gotta 100% then" or "people are gonna have to 100% these if you introduce them" but i just dont get it, maybe its because ive literally never felt like i HAD to 100% every game i play but it feels insane to look at something and feel like you have to play every little aspect of it "oh what if people have to do something unfun to 100%" they signed up for it when they decided they NEEDED to 100% stuff

[@ValuableBlueberry]

​​​​​​​​​​@@sipcee personaly the only issue i have with 100% Achievments is when they are unobtainabe like when a component gets descontinued on a game that id like to 100% mainly those that are my faves

[@lukebytes5366]

​@@sipceeachievements are the very things that cultivate that mentality. Most people wouldn't care about true 100% if there wasn't a little bar rewarding you for doing it every time you close the game. Achievements make tedious busy work look like a badge of honor rather than a waste of time.

[@somerobloxdude3699]

…and then the game dev could just add a achievements list to their game and what you just said wouldnt really matter

[@luigio8484]

void stranger does something funny with this, there's only one and you get it at the beginning of the game, before you even gain control of your character. it's a game about constant questions everywhere, and thus it makes you realize from the start you're doing this for yourself. I like it

[@J.T._Entertainment]

this inspired me to make an achievement where you go through an entire rpg game and win while either having the bare minimum level or stuck at level one, testing true skill, timing, and strategies

[@uiinpui]

I feel the same way about games like BOPL Battle, I loved discovering stuff like shooting a growth ray in water to reflect it onto yourself when I played the demo and when I saw that all of those funny little things are just spoiled to you in the steam achievements list... I was a bit sad to be honest

[@gusteen3292]

As much as I like the game compared to most, Sonic Lost World probably does achievements the worst of any game I played. You don't just do an action and get the corresponding achievement; you have to complete 3 randomly selected missions at maximum, and when you beat one of these missions you get the achievement. Not only does this slow the pace to the ground when achievement hunting, but in Steam if you get the achievement and exit the level you still have the mission to complete, meaning you have to do the mission again to clear it out of the queue and therefore get a new one. That's not even getting into the fact most achievements can be collected by just playing the game normally, no out-of-the way achievements or secrets, just standard gameplay. Also Omachao is the one giving you missions, which may have been a bad sign. The worst achievement is those involving the Black Bomb Wisp, you get them as a rare powerup either by beating the Nights Into Dreams stage, which disappears after being completed and will only reappearance when you reach certain score thresholds, or by completing missions, which are both random and limited. Then you have to activate the Black Bomb and do the associated missions, and THEN complete the stage to get the mission cleared. That fact alone made me stop achievement hunting in Sonic Lost World, it's worse than the Red Rings, the dang Snowball Level, and the Deadly Dumbdumbs combined.

[@HonorJanas]

That one guy who decided to use Retro Achievements for Sonic 2 must be *R E A L L Y* salty right now.

[@bonelesschickennuggets1868]

I only focus on achievements once I am done with the main game and had seen everything important that the game had to offer, achievement hunting afterwards can be really fun at times, but like it’s ultimately inconsequential, so I don’t have any qualms to use guides or look up what to do to reach them

[@zeroone4661]

I'm a die hard completionist and I fucking hate retroachievements

[@sipcee]

Retroacheivments faults basically just come from the fact any joe-schmoe can make a set as long as theyre willing to learn how to code them. Some sets are overly grindy messes, some sets just slap an achievement on every single thing that exists, and some of them expect you to be just as hyperfixated on the game as the set dev and know all the tech and speedrun tricks earthbounds set is somehow all 3 of these theres plenty of better sets on there but your mileage is gonna vary i personally enjoy a lot of them, its fun trying to test my knowledge on a game like kingsfield 2 and seeing if i can swipe all the non challenge run based achievements on my first go but then you have shit like "dont save the game lol" in that same set which is really hard to do in the "hardcore" mode retroacheivments encourages you to use, which prevents you from save stating i love doing retroacheivment stuff but man it tests my patience

[@ABitofEpicness]

I couldn’t disagree with this video more, but the way you explain this all makes me appreciate the different mindset behind achievements and what they should mean and this video has sort of made me think about achievements as a whole I love bullshit funny as hell random achievements that you gotta go out of your way obnoxiously for, that sounds really funny to me, but also now I realize, you can can use them as a tool for helping players to master level design, or make the achievements jokes in and of themselves like in Undertale Gonna keep this video in mind when I make a game because its interesting to hear what others have to say on the topic, great video!

[@SuperChavon]

ok, with the sesame seeds example i can already see where you're going, i agree with whatever you said, probably not all of it but for the most part, good video

[@iceninjagames]

I've never seen this guy in my life but this is some good content

[@MediaMunkee]

The thing that drives me truly mad about achievements is just how ingrained they've become. I have, on more than one occasion, seen threads for Steam games grousing about NO ACHIEVEMENTS, NO BUY, and filled with replies Nthing the sentiment. The fact that RetroAchievements even exists is testament to this; injecting them into games that were never designed with them in mind, and I have seen at least one instance of someone refusing to play retro games without RA support, who then ended up dropping multiple classic masterpieces because they were "terrible", but when pressed on what they meant they clarified that the achievements were garbage. The RetroAchievements. That they forcibly brought upon themselves to begin with. It's instances like these that make me genuinely stop and wonder what kind of nonsense hamster-wheel buttons achievements are pushing in our brains. I'll acknowledge that they _can_ be done well, but as a broad whole they've conditioned people to _expect_ the extrinsic reward system so that their absence, even where they would otherwise be put to mundane use at best, diminishes the intrinsic reward design, and I don't think the number of games that I can count on one or two hands that actually use the idea really well are worth what it's done to games as a whole. It's almost a precursor to all the other ways games have become _over-gamified_ in the interest of trying to keep people roped into live services in the long term.

[@LuxyHugs]

Yeah that's kinda my whole thing with RetroAchievements. These old games weren't made for a lot of these achievements, and I've had multiple people telling me that I can't compare RA with actual game developers because one is fan made and one is "professionally made". While yeah, the quality control is going to be lower there, that's more indicative of the fact that they screw up a bunch of play experiences for people. Also omg please don't do a first playthrough of anything with RA on, that is a death sentence for fun!

[@BobBillans]

I've played games where Retro Achievements expected me to understand very technical aspects of certain games in order to get achievements. Stuff like exploiting movement tech to sequence break.

[@Josuh]

The only game with linear ass achivements I can forgive is Thumper cuz that game is hard enough that just getting through it really feels like an achivement

[@edfreak9001]

i agree that achievements really don't fit games such as Earthbound or Undertale, albiet that I don't think it's entirely fair to hold Retroachievements to the same standard. That list was clearly made by some overeager fan rather than someone actively thinking of a good set of achievements. But yes, not every game really needs or even works with achievements. That being said I think they can serve a variety of purposes and that making achievement sets is kind of an art in and of itself. Challenge achievements like you mentioned are the most obvious, after story achievements I guess. I think achievements can be an additional way to try and steer players towards trying different things, like if you find people aren't using tools introduced later in the game you could add achievements that require their use to at least force them to sample it and find if they enjoy it. Incremental achievemetns also fit into this a bit. And to be honest I think even "sesame seed"-tier achievements can be alright at certain times if you're worried about people just completely missing it, if you don't spoil the bit in the achievement maybe. The big problem is more that playing to complete an achievement checklist is not very fun, but there's never going to be a magic solution to that since the people who would be doing that are often also seeing a game without achievements and feeling no desire to start playing.

[@bossrosslp]

I recently got into roguelikes like Risk of Rain II and Roboquest; in playing them, I've finally grasped the trye fun of achievements, and use them as a springboard whenever I play the game. For low story, high replayability games, achievements offer a great incentive to keep going for harder and harder things as your skill level improves. These are, to me, the gsmes where achievements excell. Where they DON'T excel is rpgs like Earthbound, for the reasons alreafy listed in this video, for pretty much the opposite reason they work in roguelikes :3

[@squiddu]

I feel like RA has a system in place that can already help improve the experience for some: Subsets. Certain games have alternate achievement lists that typically involve more niche or absurdly tough challenges (ie one for SM64 based purely on speedrunning). It wouldn't really "fix" Seed-type cheevos, but putting them aside into a seperate list from the main one so you know they're only for the most diehard people helps diminish their value in a healthy way. As a note to everyone else, if you have issues with a cheevo set on RA, you are allowed to give feedback. Every month, tons of games have their achievement sets changed up, whether that be point rebalancing, asthetic changes or actually changing the cheevos themselves. If you have problems that you feel are too hard to ignore, you are allowed to contact the creators of the sets or request new sets to try and improve them. RA is a community effort.

[@pravall985]

i think a good example of achievements is TF2. most of the achievements the player will just get naturally by playing the game or are just plain busywork, and those i cant really defend, but some of them are challenges (prime cuts or eagle eye) that the player probably wouldnt have come up with on their own.

[@S0riette]

Why would you compare official achievements to fan made ones

[@memeithink]

As someone who collects achievements, badges, medals, whatever you want to call them, i took the video very seriously. Changed my perspective on the topic entirely. While i still do like going for achievements just for the sake of doing it, doesnt mean i dont enjoy the game too, like lobotomy corporation for example, that games an awesome game and it has no need for achievements (or steam trading cards), even though i refunded the game not liking it that much because my brain wasnt able to work well with the game, i still play games for shits and giggles, its just the gameplay that truly matters. If you love a game for what it is, then love it, if you love a game for ite achievements… just go get a job to get more games for more achievements i guess? But still, i love achievements for what they are and this video managed to nudge me into thinking about games that only are for achievements (aka those games with letters for your steam achievement showcase) and the games without any that are plain masterpieces.

[@wingbeltcreations5455]

I often forget achievements exist. When I get one I go, "oh yeah, that's a thing" and then proceed to keep playing. My favorite thing about them though is actually using them as a reminder/log of what I did during my last play session. I just played Hollow Knight for the first time, and when I had to take a week break between sessions, I would glance at my achievements to get a feel for what I was doing before. The only game I ever "achievement" hunted in was Banjo Kazooie, only because beating the main story gives you most of them, I wanted to get 100% which gives you even more, and then the last two weren't too much work and I figured it would be neat to have all the achievements. It's also a useful statistic to see how far people get in games or what mechanics are being engaged with. I was actually going to make my own Minecraft enchanting video, but when looking between the different versions with public achievements, I found that only about 20% of players made an Enchantment Table and only 40% got full iron armor on average. But finding 17 different biomes? 50%. Absolutely baffling.

[@appleando752]

Your takeaway from achievements is the exact reason why RA added the Beaten category. Prior to October 2023, there were only 2 states that a game's progress could be in, Played and Mastered for 100%. After October, a new tab called "Beaten" for getting every progression achievement was added. It was a fantastic update to the site that meant that you didn't have to do all the little checklist tasks if you just wanted to beat the game and nothing more. I also think that comparing Pizza Tower's Achievements to Earthbound's is unfair due to the different generas they are in. Pizza Tower is a fast paced platformer designed around the player getting better at the game, while Earthbound is a story/character/world driven RPG. RPGs are inherently hard to make challenge achievements for due to limited skill expression. All Pokemon sets have level cap challenges and Catch 'em all, but not much beyond that. I think your comparison would be better if you either used the Steam Achievements for an RPG like Octopath Traveler, used a different game on RA that is more comparable to Pizza Tower like the Wario Land series, or directly compared 2 games that have both Steam and RA achievements like Final Fantasy X. I make achievements on RA myself, and I plan on doing the Sorcary Saga series in the future, and I am struggling on what challanges to put. While high skill games that I deved like Tower of Druaga and Combat are some of my finest work.

[@i_look_just_like_buddy_holly]

this video luxied my hugs jokes aside very epik video as always, your videos always make my day better and i hope you become famous one day

[@augustleded]

i actually played undertale on vita so much i almost platinumed the game

[@ostrelephant]

Tally Hall AND Earthbound fan?!

[@bacon4101]

Rain world achiviments are goated

[@NotaSonicExeRipOff]

Hey i know im a tad late but congrats on 3K subs!

[@yey6605]

terraria better take some notes (supreme helper minion)

[@arturzanelladossantos7788]

I like of the most achievements of hollow knight, they don't make you to do the absurd, only explore the game.

[@AdaTheWatcher]

One of the best achievements in steam has to be rain world in my opinion. Mainly because you don't know what they're referring to until you unlock them. So it stops people from seeking them out. Edit: i know that sounds wierd but you can use some to infer others.

[@-wiseguy]

Yes! Another Earthbound fan!

[@airconditionedstudios1011]

okay I understand what you said but i'm 100%ing undertale on playstation, switch, & xbox

[@ezzenious9923]

I ended up setting up RA because emudeck for steam deck made it pretty simple. I still think it's a neat thing and most of the time I enjoy going for relatively simple ones, but I know better than to force myself to master every single set I find, especially on a first playthrough. Like ain't no way I'm gonna play these Zelda games on 3 hearts when ive never even beaten them normally lol

[@Kukalooka]

You approach achievements wrong. Reading through them before your first playthrough isnt the play. You play the game normally, and then when you intend to do a 2nd playthrough you go through the achievements and fill them out along the way. They’re a great tool to go for stuff you’d normally miss

[@maxtube1952]

I know this is several months old, but I'd just like to say - Luxy's literal entire point with the whole "Sesame-seed-tier" part, was that interactions like that lose their value if you just look up what it does and how to get to it or have it on a checklist telling you what to do. It no longer feels like a nice interaction, just a little extra dialogue you have to get through to get that achievement or "100%" the game. It carries more weight to just find it, whether online, on a first playthrough, on a second playthrough, on a seventh playthrough, or on a 50th playthrough.

[@Wimpyfox]

You are comparing the achievements of a platformer with a ranking system to achievements you CHOSE to apply to your game via an outside tool in a JRPG. It is really not a fair or direct comparison to convey your point. Your overall point about how achievements should and shouldnt be designed is good, but your apples to orange comparison is quite stupid. Also one of your main complaints is that the achievements function as a checklist, you are using achievements from a website, these were not built into the game, if you dont want a checklist dont choose to read one its really that simple. Your point about games having intrinsic reward is true, but having an achievement to signify (shocker) an achievement of getting something, i.e a rare item, is valid, your example of the worthless house in EB giving an achievement is a good example of this being taken to far, however again this achievement is not apart of the game it is from a website which you chose to apply as a mark of accomplishment. I feel like you underplayed the legitimacy of having achievements purely for the sake of achievement rather than solely using them as teaching methods for you to improve. If you are against RNG/Rare drops in totality then fine, but giving an achievement for getting them really doesnt do anything but make it more satisfying when you do, or if you best a hard challenge. Especially when said hard challenges are from an optional website/tool you choose to apply.

[@crosbycreates]

Does bro know what an opinion is

[@Wimpyfox]

@@crosbycreates I literally said I agreed with their point are you stupid.

[@mrbeegamer7575]

Does bro know how to respect people's opinions?! You said that, although you failed to respect the comment you replied to. Stay safe, you silly goose.

[@Wimpyfox]

​@@crosbycreates I don't even disagree with their opinion I literally said i agreed are you stupid.

[@mrbeegamer7575]

@@Wimpyfox oh, ok my bad

[@jomaq9233]

I know some people still complain about Nintendo still not having an achievement system, but I kinda wonder if they actually made the right call in not doing it

[@utuberz123456789]

I just got this recommended to me after seeing dolphin support announced for retro achievements and thinking "I don't care". The only time ive ever liked an achievment is when it encouraged me to do something difficult or that i wouldnt try otherwise. And I suppose basic ones are good to see how many players beat the game or something, it's interesting at least. But generally I don't care about them and dislike their interruption. Also, snes over ps2? I mean, it's close but come on.

[@sadlad3821]

Love the video man. I'm so excited for the next Hawaii part II video!

[@dimedimedime]

I'm not sure who you are addressing in your final thoughts, achievement developers and game developers are different in the eyes of RetroAchievements and have different goals. Steam/PSN Trophies are only supplemental to the games you're buying, but when achievements are the main content like on RetroAchievements, there will be always be user-created content that goes beyond the scope of what the game developers intended. As long as achievements can be earned within an optional mode with emulator feature restrictions invoked that brings intrinsic value, like RetroAchievements hardcore mode, there's no reason not to have "unofficial" (not made by game developers) achievements for tasks that some would consider extraneous. We're high on GameCube RetroAchievements right now, can't wait for you or the next guy to complain about their childhood classic getting ruined by an entirely opt-in achievement system.

[@polocatfan]

Toby was forced to add achievements to Undertale, it wasn't his choice. Criticizing it for that is dumb.

[@freshbroski8547]

^

[@LuxyHugs]

Did you watch the video? I never criticized undertale for having achievements. I specifically praised the game for not having 100% goals and that the achievements were funny by mocking bad achievements on purpose.

[@t.o.mirite]

15:18 😂

[@TJ-hg6op]

Watch the video before making a comment

[@nijucow]

In this video: complaining about minor stuff that can be entirely skipped

[@rubykaylaandogie3334]

The thumbnail is right P I Z Z A T O W E R

[@tassaron]

I'm very intrinsically motivated so I rarely look at achievements, but I like having them for an idea of what more I could do in the game. Although I barely ever complete them. For some games like Minecraft, the achievements function mostly as a tutorial. For linear games, they are just like a statistic of how far people get into the game before quitting. Also, I've only played Earthbound, never Undertale :P

[@LuxyHugs]

Undertale is awesome, genuinely one of the best games I've ever played.