Stop Making Batman Realistic!

#jesterbell
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[@xoler2167]

This is a universe where a man dresses as a bat to cope with trauma & they worry about a name being unrealistic?

[@ToxicVex267]

What's funny is his name isn't really that unrealistic last names like that do exist.

[@Vilgax00]

There is a city named Batman in my country (Turkiye).

[@mabmarkus72]

Es ist das Universum von Superman!😀

[@jodi2847]

They'd have Batman wear a much different, more realistic "costume" if they thought they could get away with it.

[@DuneStone6816]

I was just about to make that exact same point. If you're worried about being grounded, then you should just stay away from superheroes.

[@RacingSnails64]

"Oz Cobb" sounds INFINITELY more ridiculous and cartoony than Oswald Cobblepot.

[@DavidMartinez-ce3lp]

I agree. It sounds silly honestly.

[@DeftCrackerGaming]

Oz Cobb sounds like it fits right in with weird celebrity baby names

[@DavidMartinez-ce3lp]

@@DeftCrackerGaming sounds like a musician Lil Oz Cobb

[@Ididtherightthing]

@@DavidMartinez-ce3lp but is he as good as Paul Bufano?

[@DavidMartinez-ce3lp]

@@Ididtherightthing the answer is in the question

[@omniviewer2115]

People think that what Bat-fans want is "dark grounded and realistic". What Bat-fans really want is the comics and the cartoons.

[@DavidMartinez-ce3lp]

Yup, these directors need to start thinking like the cartoons because those have actually given us the definitive takes the DC characters. The live action content chooses either grounded or campy. Never finding a proper balance.

[@kadalsaurus6232]

we want GOTHIC NOIR artstyle

[@euro51116]

I see where youre coming from, but at that point i would just read the comics and watch the cartoons if they already have exactly what im looking for. Film is a different medium, in a different context, with very different limits. Thats why i dont feel as hung up about changes like this.

[@omniviewer2115]

@@euro51116 In my other comment, I mention that Superman was considered unadaptable pre1978 for being too unrealistic, weird, and old fashioned. We all know what happened when Richard Donner was told it couldn't be done.

[@DavidMartinez-ce3lp]

@omniviewer2115 exactly, it's been done plenty of times. I wish they would do what Raimi was able to do with Spiderman and balance the campiness and groundedness. Also, I think Raimi would be a great pick to direct a Batman movie.

[@omniviewer2115]

Way back in the Seventies, Richard Donner was told that adapting Superman to the big screen was impossible. Too ridiculous, too unrealistic, too hokey, no way anyone would buy it. His response was to look the skeptics in the eye and say, "You will believe a man can fly." And he pulled it off. He did it not by grounding Superman - something he theoretically could have done if he cited the older comics as his source - but by simply applying verisimilitude to the Man of Steel. Modern filmmakers could learn a thing or two from that.

[@matityaloran9157]

There were Superman movies since the 1940s

[@SammEater]

Modern filmmakers are too busy trying to not look childish and addicted to "realism" to do something like that.

[@omniviewer2115]

@@matityaloran9157 "There were Superman movies since the 1940s" Incorrect. There were three movie serials made between 1948 and 1951, but these are more comparable to TV/streaming shows than movies. The short film "Stamp Day for Superman" - spun off from the George Reeves show - was released in 1954, but not theatrically; it was an educational film meant to be shown in schools. After that, there were no live action Superman movies produced until the Richard Donner version, for the reasons I stated.

[@rp1692]

@@omniviewer2115 what about Superman and the Mole Men? A 58-minute feature film that received a theatrical release. Seemingly a sort of pilot for the TV show that started the following year.

[@omniviewer2115]

@@rp1692 Okay, technically a film. I misspoke and counted that as a serial. Being under an hour long, it's technically a short film. Still, that was the last time Superman was in a theatrical release of any sort prior to 19728, and the point otherwise stands.

[@idiot_city5444]

There's people literally named 'Apple' in the real world lol... Oscob is ridiculous

[@ToxicVex267]

I knew a guy whose last name was Nerf and every time we played a game where something got nerfed we would say dang it nerf. And he'd laugh even he would make those jokes and his dad who's a gamer started making the same joke. Names of all kinds exist.

[@leafyishereisdumbnameakath4259]

Apple? In what country?

[@ohslytherin94]

​@@leafyishereisdumbnameakath4259 daughter of Gwyneth Paltrow and Chris Martin. Apple Martin.

[@tyshekka]

​@@leafyishereisdumbnameakath4259Hollywood actress Gwyneth Paltrow's kid.

[@AICW]

@@leafyishereisdumbnameakath4259 China. It's a pretty popular English name Chinese girls pick for themselves. I knew three in university.

[@KaiHouston-m6j]

If you hate comics, don't do comics stories.

[@Pelicanzzz]

I don't think they'd have much viewership if they only target people who read the comics.

[@aurahoneydew9607]

They don't want to studios hate them. But the only thing that were a safe bet.

[@DemonicRemption]

@KaiHouston-m6j Well the problem is that there's enough of an audience that have made comic stories lucrative. Ripping out the fantastical elements helps sell them to people who don't read comics.

[@AlexanderMartinez-kd7cz]

​@@BaithNa then again they're doing their best to end that money.

[@robinmohamedally7587]

@@BaithNa they made a shit ton of money following comics, too, so that's a piss poor argument.

[@DanielBMaximoff]

"Reality is boring. Nobody wants to pay for reality." - Ed Boon. Mortal Kombat 11. PlayStation 4.

[@RoronoaZoro-ur6hr]

MK11 and MK1 supposedly is supposed to be the most realistic Mortal Kombat games, yet if you look at the sales it sells the least amount copies in the franchise.

[@DanielBMaximoff]

@@RoronoaZoro-ur6hr I have seen it and clashed with the current fanbases over it in vain. Its apparent that the developers listen to nobody or have their hands tied. You have to shut up and be okay with it.

[@DeadlyAlienInvader]

Go search up Katherine Knight, Richard Chase, and Albert Fish, and let’s see how “boring” reality is.

[@WhayYay]

And Mk11 was complete trash lol most hated mk game in a decade.

[@CecilWindbush]

Thank you 👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻

[@Vilgax00]

The most unrealistic part of Batman is him not sleeping at all. You cant fix that in live action without doing something unrealistic.

[@anthony5128]

Exactly man remember when in the comics he used to have power naps some times it gave him like a adrenaline rush

[@daustin8888]

There is a lot of unrealistic things about Batman: 1) A billionaire that cares about other people 2) A fed up citizen just straight up shooting The Joker to death 3) Why anyone would want to be a henchmen for The Joker 4) Batman being a master of *ALL* martial arts 5) Anyone deciding to live in Gotham 6) Internal Affairs not gutting the GCPD for collaborating with a vigilante

[@Vilgax00]

​​@@daustin8888Actually most of them can be explain with poverty and corruption.

[@Vilgax00]

​@@anthony5128Not to mentoined how he still beign buff with that level of sleep.

[@anthony5128]

@@Vilgax00 Yeah man damn bro is a tank moreover his morning routine is pretty much top notch

[@sadiamariam8162]

These are superheroes we like them because there unrealistic

[@FriendlyBatDoom]

PREACH. The grounded-in-reality approach to Batman has now stagnated Batman as a character. It strips too much away from him so the writers can justify the mob and serial killer-type villains can stand a chance against the watered-down Batman. If they tell you he should only be street level they're not very bright. Batman is the most versatile fictional character of all time and they want to continuously ground him but then cry because they want something fresh as well 🤦🏿‍♂️. That's why he's on the Justice League and their go-to when they need a scientist and or tactician to get them out of a bind. Reminder: all of the founding 7 JL members have god-level and above abilities except for Batman, whose intellectual and combative prowess is on that level to make up for not having abilities. He's Doctor Doom without magic. Here are some villain examples Ra's Al Ghul, Poison Ivy, and Kobra Cult. Ra's Al Ghul is a 1000-year-old super genius polymathic ecoterrorist warlord who wants to rid the world of crime, corruption, and pollution by wiping out 90 percent of the human population so nature can take over again. Poison Ivy is the same without the crime part, but now she is a human-plant hybrid, and Kobra wants to enslave the world to their deity after releasing the deity from their prison. All have been thwarted by Batman, and they consider him to be THE MAIN THREAT to their plans. He's even so intimidating without powers that god-level beings like Darkseid admitted that Batman is 10 times smarter than all of the members in his service COMBINED. That includes the immortal million-year-old scientific super-genius known as Desaad. You freshen things up by not grounding him and look to Grant Morrison's 2000s Batman run aka Bat-god era, Mike Mignola's Batman run, and Chuck Dixon's 1990s Batman run for inspiration We have stories where He's fighting Lovecraftian cosmic horror creatures, 13ft Killer Croc, a 10ft zombie walking around in Gotham sewers, and now stories Offworld where he's learning from Aliens. These provide a TRUE challenge for Batman because they take him out of his element of the natural into the supernatural, metahuman, and cosmic realm. How can you take him seriously as the world's greatest detective if some of his greatest villains are Riddler and Two-Face? Two-Face, because of his obsession with the number 2 and duality, will rob the 2nd National Bank of Gotham on 22nd Street on February 2nd at 2 am. Or with the Riddler who gives easy Riddles for people to Google. I can give you one; riddle me this, Batman; it isn't east or west but the opposite of south. How can I take him seriously when these are some of his most iconic street-level villains? Writers have to nerf him so they can stand a chance and it's annoying. The TV show Batman Brave and the Bold 2008 showcased this the best. He's a scientific match for Ted Kord's Blue Beetle, a deductive match for Sherlock Holmes, and a greater warrior than the immortal warlord Ra's Al Ghul while still being defeated by Bronze Tiger in combat prowess. This show knew how to test Batman by MIXING IT UP. Usually, the street-level crime was left to Robin/Nightwing because being trained by Batman made him so capable that the League of Shadows members, such as Talia, couldn't defeat him. The same league that is stated to have the greatest warriors on the planet. The Terrible, in my opinion, Batman Caped Crusader series had one good episode, and it was the Gentleman Ghost one. It's because we got to see Batman out of his element TRULY testing him with the supernatural. It gives him a chance to be a novice in an area and grow understandably. I'm going to end with this Batman and Supernatural/Lovecraftian cosmic horror mysteries are made for each other. It allows him to be at his finest as a warrior and a super genius polymathic intellectual while keeping him close to his roots as the world's greatest detective. Hopefully, this answers your question.

[@vee1766]

There are plenty others comic characters that deal with supernatural stuff, get that shit out of my Batman. Batman is Noir, it's crime fiction, he's a detective fighting crime in Gotham.

[@FriendlyBatDoom]

​@@vee1766respectfully, no, he isn’t. He is all of it. People forget that since the 1950s, he's been dealing with science fiction and the supernatural since, I believe, the 1970s. The most versatile fictional character of all time is stuck in one area because they are afraid to do something different. I got one for you. Taking inspiration from 1982s The Thing. Batman has to fight Blob Clayface using practical effects as much as possible. Batman ACTUALLY allowed to be the world's greatest detective without advanced tech will have to pay attention to people's mannerisms to determine whether or not they are who they say they are. Batman is investigating why Clayface is murdering Daggett executives and senators while defeating assassins like the enhanced assassin Philo Zeiss hired by Daggett to stop Clayface and Batman. Batman will also showcase his legendary scientific knowledge to develop a cure for Clayface after discovering that Clayface's condition isn’t sustainable and will soon kill him.

[@vee1766]

@@FriendlyBatDoom This versality is exactly what ruins Batman. I always considered Justice League Batman to be an abomination. Yes, Batman can have to deal with more supernatural/sci-fi threats once in a while but it's essence is to be a street level hero, a vigilante, a detective protecting Gotham. Batman is a its best when its grounded in crime/Noir vibes. Batman shouldn't be for kids, it shouldn't be cool and fun, the very concept of Batman itself is mature in its controversy.

[@Lidoe]

@@vee1766 Fantastical ≠ for kids

[@FriendlyBatDoom]

@@vee1766 when has Lovecraft and murderous shape-shifting Blob Men ever been for kids?

[@thatHARVguy]

"When I became a man I put away childish things, including the fear of childishness and the desire to be very grown up." -C.S. Lewis

[@tyreewilson2140]

Crazy how people only quote the first half

[@cargopilotguy305]

@@tyreewilson2140 when people quote it, they are usually quoting scripture and not the CS Lewis quote

[@zaidbaker7031]

I swear if the James Gunn dcu batman doesn't succeed I'm gonna be mad like c'mon how hard is to make one batman movie that's not grounded, look i don't have a problem with matt reeves batman universe i think it's good but like really, I'm just sick and tired of grounded BATMAN MOVIES Like for once give Us a fantastical batman movie, to those who want fantastical batman y'all better watch batman brave and the new bold movie James Gunn DCU when it comes out

[@sammysstopmotionoas2004]

This is why we gotta go out and support stuff like Superman. I certainly know I will be there day 1 for Superman, as well as Brave and The Bold.

[@ohslytherin94]

I bet that's the reason why Matt Reeves didn't go the route, fantastical Batman because James Gunn will make it in new DCU. And yes, honestly I want Batman has two versions. The one who fights psychopaths using brain, another one who fights aliens.

[@eliben4066]

⁠@@ohslytherin94I love the Batman who fights psychopaths using his brains, but I want those psychopaths to be iconic and larger than life and fantastical to a degree as well, like the 90s Cartoon, not realistic and grounded, just some terrorist in a minimalistic costume, borrowing the name of an iconic comic book character

[@rp1692]

@@ohslytherin94 no, that's not the reason. Gunn didn't become head of DC on film until November 2022. Reeves' The Batman was released in March the same year and began filming more than two years earlier (it was delayed by COVID).

[@ohslytherin94]

@@rp1692 but still, Batman in Justice League, he would fight against aliens along with Superman and Wonder Woman. That's why, I think that happened to The Dark Knight Trilogy. Nolan and Reeves chose Batman as a human being that goes against human enemies too.

[@jspaingreene6350]

Oz Cobb is a salad I get when I visit the Emerald City...

[@DavidMartinez-ce3lp]

😂

[@AntonioBaker-zk8zu]

Oz Cobb has ties to the court of 🦉 that’s why they went with this name .

[@RoronoaZoro-ur6hr]

@@AntonioBaker-zk8zu , the Court of Owls are just the Freemasons of the Batman universe, so if Hollywood wanted to make a grounded realistic superhero show and film franchise then they should just have all of the Freemasons in real life film on a Hollywood set.

[@AntonioBaker-zk8zu]

@@RoronoaZoro-ur6hr is his choice to make it realistic you act like Batman was flying prior to Matt Reeves and Christopher Nolan. He’s not a superhero with CGI powers. That’s why he is the first one to be on the Hollywood walk of fame because people can relate to him being a human being.

[@RoronoaZoro-ur6hr]

@@AntonioBaker-zk8zu , the only Batman media I grew up with are the Telltales games and Batman Beyond, and yet both series have cancellations, so clearly WB Studios isn't going make bank unless they continue making more of those media franchises.

[@daustin8888]

David Mazzucchelli (the artist of Batman: Year One) said it best, "The more realistic you make superheroes, the less believable they are." There is a reason a Batman type doesn't exist in our world. It is impractical and stupid and is only badass in a fantastical setting.

[@thewolfofwallstreet627]

True. Plus the more realistic you make a movie, the more plotholes the fantastical elements about the character becomes glaringly obvious. For example. I remember seeing both "Pete's Dragon" movies. The original was a light hearted over the top comedic musical that didn't take itselt that seriously. But the remake? The remake was grounded so much into realism that I kept asking myself if this story takes place in modern day, and the dragon is always flying out in broad daylight while not being invisible half the time, then how is that hardly nobody knows about his existence until Pete is adopted by a local family? That makes no sense. At least in the original, it was presented as so much of an over top cartoonish fashion that you never really took it that seriously. But the more grounded you make a story, the more you have to either have to explain the fantastical elements to your audience in a plausible way, or you do away with the fantastical elements entirely.

[@DavidMartinez-ce3lp]

​@thewolfofwallstreet627 exactly, these Hollywood directors need to start thinking like the cartoons. The cartoons have actually managed to give us the definitive versions of these characters, and they did it by making them both somewhat grounded and campy.

[@caity613]

I agree. I think this is why I didn't like the recent Batman movie (the Matt Reeves one) that much. It felt so "gritty" and real world, in many ways, that it felt weird watching this rich dude go out and horribly beat people up. I was sitting there like... 'what about due process my man?' Which is not a thought I should be having during Batman 😅. It should be much more removed from our world than that. Still asking moral questions, while also making me believe people can be superheroes and villains, etc.

[@darlalathan6143]

Since the 2000s, there has been a subculture of Real-Life Superheroes, such as Phoenix Jones, Master Legend, etc., and a real-life Batman and Robin in Whitby, England, who busted a streaker in Buckingham Palace! 😆😄😅😂🤣🤓

[@kunserndsittizen2655]

THE INCREDIBLE HULK TV SHOW was pretty realistic

[@ereini0n]

Make Comic Book Movies Again! The early MCU was like that, and they were beloved and successful, because that's what the audience wanted. Nolan Trilogy was successful despite the only comic book-y one was the last. But it was Nolan and Bale, so nobody minded. The latest Batman should have just been an original story, not about Batman but just a vigilante or a cop. If you don't want to adapt a comic, don't.

[@DavidMartinez-ce3lp]

The Raimi Spiderman trilogy was like that, Blade, etc. There were so many fun ones that still took things seriously.

[@matityaloran9157]

@@DavidMartinez-ce3lpWell put

[@vaporsaver]

Batman Begins was pretty "comic book-y", it had the most comic accurate depiction of Gotham in Nolan's trilogy. After Begins, it just turns into New York/Chicago. Sometimes I wonder how many people who complain about CBMs not being "comic book-y" have read a comic that was made after the 70s, and how many know there are comics outside of Marvel/DC. Or how many want "comic book-y" movies, but only watched the cartoons. There's plenty of gritty, street level stories within Batman's comics, as well as others. Depicting that aspect of Batman isn't inaccurate, you all just want the more fantastical aspects to be brought to the big screen again, which is fine, but they're both comic accurate. It's also annoying when you all refer to superhero films purely as "comic book movies", comic book movies includes genres outside of superheroes. Ghost World, From Hell, A History of Violence, 300, Road to Perdition, Blue is the Warmest Color etc, plus shows like Locke & Key, Paper Girls etc...

[@matityaloran9157]

@@vaporsaver The Death of Stalin was also based on a comic book

[@DavidMartinez-ce3lp]

@vaporsaver The problem is Hollywood only chooses to depict Batman as either entirely campy or grounded, but he's actually a combination of both. Choosing to only depict certain aspects over others means holding the character back. Never allowing the character to be represented in his entirety. That's what fans want. A combination of both campiness and grittiness/groundedness. That's what's made the character as popular as he is. What's made the character as iconic as he is.

[@ECKohns]

Making Batman realistic means that 90% of the stuff I like from the comics and cartoons will never show up. And I’ve had to deal with this for 20 years!

[@omniframe8612]

All because people are afraid of movies from 30 fucking years ago

[@itsme-uw8vm]

Your getting DCU batman

[@DavidMartinez-ce3lp]

​@@itsme-uw8vmexcept he just skipped right to Damian Wayne as Robin. Doesn't even bother to build up the Batfamily. I don't want their origins to be referenced in conversation, I wanna see it. And it's also weird that Batman is so far in his career and Superman is seemingly very new

[@fellowsufferer4486]

I think well written stories about those 10% will work for a trilogy.

[@Rengokuo4o6]

​@@DavidMartinez-ce3lp nah, let's stick to ONE Robin (child soldier) and not 50 million.

[@Wanderer2331]

It’s weird hearing that Matt Reeves may have a problem with fantastical elements in movies, when he has directed two movies about intelligent talking apes.

[@chandlerburse]

Arent the apes just evolving? Its more Sci Fi than fantasy

[@kangaroo3708]

You do realize we used to be apes?

[@chandlerburse]

@@kangaroo3708 not apes dude

[@controlman7490]

​@@kangaroo3708Humans didn't "used" to be apes. We ARE apes. C'mon, educate yourself first before speaking.

[@CynicalMisanthrope-b3p]

I can't wait for a new "realistic" Superman movie, where he has literal wings on his back so he can fly, an optical Xray/laser device he wears on his eyes so he can use his sight powers and a super advanced body suit that gives him his super strength and invulnerability. He'll also wear a mask to hide his identity and have a dadbod with early onset diabetes because he's a middle-aged man. And the best part about being so realistic is Lois Lane will be perfect in every way and will have to rescue Superman because she's an independent and powerful female who don't need no man to rescue her.

[@ChrisVickers-i5i]

Are you sure you're not a Hollywood writer? Lol

[@CynicalMisanthrope-b3p]

@@ChrisVickers-i5i I am a writer, but not in Hollywood. I'm an independent writer who is focused on politics and the entertainment industry. I used to write fiction but stopped many years ago.

[@Christian-xw4zi]

@@CynicalMisanthrope-b3pwho said anything about the movie being realistic

[@badman_iiixiii]

FOR THE LOVE OF GOD DON'T GIVE MATT REEVES ANY MORE IDEAS

[@bigeboi1000]

But batman doesnt have powers? So god awful comparison

[@deathbysloth]

Batman: The Brave And The Bold is just as legit a version of Batman as Batman: TAS. The beauty of Batman is the malleability of the character.

[@ToxicVex267]

It also helped that it brought back a lot of characters from the big names to some you'd barely even heard of.

[@darkknightfan7520]

That show is simply the best fr. Shows that the most pure Batman & dcu *can* be really cool.

[@DavidMartinez-ce3lp]

I'd also like to add The Batman series from 2004. The far better adaptation with the name "The Batman." I especially loved The Batman vs Dracula.

[@jpjammin1876]

@@DavidMartinez-ce3lp That show is fantastic! I recently did a rewatch, and it really holds up. It was overshadowed by BTAS and a lot of the other DC superhero content of the time, but I'm glad more people have been remembering it and giving it props recently.

[@DavidMartinez-ce3lp]

@jpjammin1876 same here. It did so many fun takes on the characters, and the action was really fun.

[@dragonsigner]

The new name sounds like a shortened version nickname of the full name...

[@JurassicRod]

I really enjoyed the Penguin series so far but I wish they'd lean a little more into the comic stuff. Why on earth can't he just be Oswald Cobblepot! I also want him with his weapon umbrellas at some point too. As much as I love The Dark Knight, it has cast an annoying shadow over DC now where it all has to be a bit too ''realistic'' and gritty. Sapped of color and it's comic book roots.

[@vee1766]

The Gotham comic stuff, like you said, has always been grounded and gritty, i don't know what y'all blabbing on about. Y'all pretend to read comics but it sure feel like you don't. The very best Batman/Gotham comics have always been the most "street level" ones.

[@JurassicRod]

@@vee1766 My fave Batman comics are from the late 80s/early 90s and I haven't read any new comics for a decade now. I also love the DCAU. So that's all my go to material.

[@lastmanstanding7155]

​@@vee1766 boy I sure loved the grounded time a dude from a prison (who was born there and left to die as a boy) came to gotham, immediately figured out who batman was and then let out a bunch of psychopaths to wear him down just to break his spine. Boy I sure loved how grounded it was how in that same story said guy went and fought a crocodile man to establish dominance over the villans of gotham and put himself as the strongest. Boy I sure thought it was grounded when batman fought a deranged cult who's cult leader bathes in blood to stay young. Boy I sure thought it was grounded when batman was mine controlled for 3 months by some lady who controls plants. Boy, I sure thought it was grounded when batman had to fight an undead zombie who keeps saying a nursey rhyme for some reason. Come on bro. Come off it.

[@vee1766]

@@lastmanstanding7155 I never said Batman stories can't have the occasional superfreak psycho encounter. But those should be rare and they are not the best Batman stories. Also y'all are confusing grounded and realistic. Of course it doesn't have to be "realistic", the whole concept of Batman isn't realistic, but it has to be grounded, Batman should be a street level vigilante, not a superhero.

[@lastmanstanding7155]

@@vee1766 not the best? Dude, in my references I cited nothing but all the top batman stories. Bane with knightfall and I mentioned his confrontation witj Croc. I then also mentioned the long halloween twice with poison ivy and Salomon Grundy. I then refrenced Deacon Blakfire from his comic called the cult. These are examples of what us fans considered the best. I did it to deliberately prove you wrong. Rare? Come off it. Long halloween is literally about how it changes from mafia crime to freaks in costumes causing chaos. Rare my tookas. It's part of batman's mythos. Clayface is just as much a legit villan as Joker or Riddler. Point is, fans besides you exist and want these stories adapted without it being watered down to be "realistic." I don't mind the changes they did for riddler in the batman movie. But I do have issues with saying "it's unrealistic to have Robin. It's too unrealistic to have clayface the monster shape-shifting criminal." You know what else is unrealistic? Freezing someone and they don't instantly die. Yet that doesn't stop me from enjoying any stories with Mr. Freeze in it.

[@viewtifulvash6068]

That's my problem with the Reeve Batman universe - we've already had a realistic/grounded take on the character with Nolan's trilogy and to see it done again is just so boring IMO. Edit: I can't believe I have to say this, but I never implied that the Nolan trilogy was "boring". They're good films (apart from Rises). I'm just saying that doing what was already done before is uninteresting.

[@vee1766]

It's boring to y'all because you're immature men-children who can't handle slower, atmospheric Noir crime stories, you can only be diverted by big spectacle and fighting.

[@josesarango3408]

Nolan movies were arguably "realistic" (I prefer grounded) but far from boring. That's talent

[@DavidMartinez-ce3lp]

​@@josesarango3408grounded gets boring when you don't allow it also be fun. I'd prefer a true balance of the two.

[@CMan-x7k]

​@@vee1766No it's boring because it's 3 hours with a terrible riddler performance.

[@euro51116]

Was it realistic though? It was very serious in tone, but far from realistic as far as set design, lighting, and even the fashion and technology at times. It felt grounded, but not really that realistic. It was extremely atmospheric, slower to fit the detective/noir elements, which made it very different from the Nolan movies and unique from other batman movies imo. A character with a vast stylistic history like batman's universe can be intrepreted a variety of ways, she just wants an entirely different movie which is fair, but thats not really criticism of the movie itself.

[@PPrexor-qk9vq]

They should stick to animation, it's the ultimate form to bring superheroes to life. There's no discordance with real life rules and they can do the fights and emotional beats justice, as many movies and shows have proven.

[@vaporsaver]

If the MCU was strictly animation, would've never been as successful and culturally impactful as it was, and that's all they see is the dollar signs.

[@avlis101]

The last best Batman animation was The Dark Knight returns part 1 and 2 and Assault on Arkham. When the guys that worked on those left DC Animation became a series of almost hits and misses. We should just rewatch the warehouse fight for being the closest to Batman unleashed in live action.

[@callmejacob3234]

That's what I've been saying for years.

[@4YrStasis]

"Animation takes a looooooog time"

[@sammysstopmotionoas2004]

I have been going back through and rewatching the Animated Series and the world of Batman is so much better with all of the fun fantasy elements. I hope with Reeves doing the realistic stuff, James Gunn and Andy Muschetti will take that as an opportunity to go full on ahead with the fantasy elements and be proud to be Comic Book movie, much like how Superman seems to be.

[@kangaroo3708]

Batman the animated series. Ah yes! The one where Bruce tried to get it off with his stepsons girlfriend….. so definitive!

[@bencarlson4300]

I personally do not care what form a Batman story takes… I just want a good Batman story, and that’s what The Batman was. In fact, my two favorite Batman movies are The Batman and The LEGO Batman, so a Batman comic adaptation can literally have any tone as long as it is executed well.

[@bruceleeds7988]

"Realistic" is the word they use instead of "Christopher Nolan"

[@josesarango3408]

except Nolan movies are actually great

[@anastasiazhdanova1578]

Except Nolan kept majority of what was important about characters- Ra's al Ghul was still head of shadow secret organisation which racked havoc against humanity for centuries and had supervillain plans and aspirations, Joker was still brilliant wild card criminal who had funny dark sense of humour and was obsessed with Batman, Bane was still really strong masked dude but also smart, etc.

[@DavidMartinez-ce3lp]

​@@josesarango3408and fun. I miss when things could be both fun and serious.

[@DavidMartinez-ce3lp]

​@@anastasiazhdanova1578exactly, I was actually surprised how many stories Nolan was able to pull from and combine in his trilogy.

[@aurahoneydew9607]

They were alright ​@josesarango3408 looking at them now they were on the same level as the The Batman. They feel like a multipart episode of a modern Batman tv show would be like. Which honestly HBO should be doing with The Batman just episodic 45 min adventures for 10 installments per season.

[@tajcee]

I’m bored to death with realistic Batman to the point I find myself revisiting Batman Forever a lot these days. I also think it’s ironic considering that Batman is a dark character but there are so many shades and colors that can be taken with him thematically and narratively. But nope, Hollywood’s always like, “We need to go darker. Let’s make him even *more* real”, which is so limiting and uninteresting.

[@vee1766]

Tell me you've never read a Batman/Gotham comic without telling me so... Being grounded and dark is Batman wether you want it or not. If you don't like it there are plenty other comic book characters to satisfy you, why would they change what Batman is about for y'all ?

[@tajcee]

@@vee1766 🥱

[@tajcee]

@@vee1766 Tell me you’re gatekeeping without telling me.

[@DavidMartinez-ce3lp]

Ya know the action in that movie was actually not bad.

[@DavidMartinez-ce3lp]

​@@vee1766no, those are only very specific aspects of the character. Did you forget about the decades of campiness that's part of Batman's history? The character is a mix of campy and grounded. Choosing one or the other means you won't be the character in his entirety.

[@The_Presbyterian]

He isn't embrassed by the comics he talked about Batman ego constantly which is a really good read

[@asyme9717]

Agree completely. Making batman ultra-realistic takes away a lot of the gothic glamour of the character. Nolan's, for example, lost Gotham - the city was Chicago in all but name. And once you do that, batman himself looks ridiculous. Why is he wearing a suit? Why is he driving an insane care? Surely he should just be a man in a balaclava and leather jacket... Batman's operatic. His villains, his environments, everything about the world leans in that direction. Trying to strip it back to basics loses a lot of great stuff along the way.

[@tylerlong5112]

The best realistic Batman I read is Gotham 1919-1939 that had Batman in a ww1 like setting wail also staying true to the character.

[@MoonMan990]

I think a lot of people misunderstand a few things with this. Matt doesn’t hate the comics, he’s the only Batman director who seems to know comics outside of year one, long halloween, killing joke, DKR. His example of too fantastical was gentleman ghost. Penguin’s name change to Oswald Cobb while sounding stupid at first makes sense since his original surname makes him seem he comes from money, this Oswald does not The robin thing isn’t true. Rob himself said he’s only having a Robin if he’s like 14 and it’s mostly wb being too embarrassed of him since Batman And Robin from what I remember Side note: he gets called the penguin IN the show still, Penguin himself doesn’t like the nickname in the book. It’s an insult about his appearance and his disability. Gotham does this too and nobody complained, besides he’s literally called penguin 90% of the time in The Batman, it’s clearly not reeve’s choice for the show to cut that one scene The sooner the Reeves hates comic books narrative ends the better, we need to aim this energy at Todd Phillips instead, the man has made 2 joker movies with a joker who’s not funny. Going against the entire point of the character

[@uzii6540]

People just wanna complain about stuff. She’s crying about this KNOWING James Gunn is making the more fantastical Batman. The penguin is hella successful and so was The Batman, so I don’t get why people are even opening their mouth.

[@MoonMan990]

@@uzii6540 I mean I get complaining even with the DCU Batman incoming mostly cause the guy who did the flash movie is doing that one

[@uzii6540]

@@MoonMan990 that movie was bad because of covid, WBs involvement with the changes in the movie and all the Ezra miller drama but i get your point.

[@MoonMan990]

@@uzii6540 still, if I heard the guy doing the new take on batman directed CGI graverobbing Christopher Reeve and George Reeves I wouldn’t be very happy

[@Webslinger2005]

That's one of the reasons why the Arkham series is my favorite version of Batman. Those games had a dark and serious tone and aesthetic while also keeping the fantastical elements of the Batman universe.

[@Gotham_bat759]

Exactly. It took liberties with it and did their own thing while respecting the world of Batman. They need to find a good blend of fantasy and dark/seriousness in the DCU.

[@juanme555]

@@Gotham_bat759 "Took liberties" is always used in such a loaded way (not in this case by you) , writers and directors simply use it as deflection to inser their own personal beliefs where they dont belong. Rocksteady just celebrated 70 years of Batman comics and some amazing animated renditions, that's all Arkham Asylum was, there is a tiny little bit of inevitable modernization that i would say was maybe necessary to mesh ALL of these characters together at once in the Russian Roulette that Asylum was, but all in all, there is very little of the individuals behind Arkham Asylum in Arkham Asylum, its nearly all 100% pure Batman , they understood that the character is just that much bigger than them. So with all due respect i will strongly contest your assertion of liberties being taken in Arkham Asylum.

[@jeremiahkisimba5938]

❤️thank you for your unbiased review

[@DarkmanPoe]

THANK YOU!!! I totally agree! "Batman" (1989) is still my favorite. This is a story about a guy who dresses like a bat to beat up clowns and a woman dressed like a cat...how realistic can you make that??

[@ford-wp1yq]

The most unrealistic thing even in comics is that Penguins name sounds English, while he's ruling a Italian crime family

[@RoronoaZoro-ur6hr]

The Telltales games made him an English fuck boy, but you're right it is odd how every other Batman media makes him Italian.

[@epochpilot9404]

Beautifully said.

[@justaduck1652]

Saying that Matt Reeves is just trying to copy Nolan is kind of insane to me. The Dark Knight trilogy and the Batman could not be more different with their approach to Batman as a character or the style of the films. Them both being more “realistic” takes on Batman doesn’t mean they’re doing the same thing.

[@chandlerburse]

The batman feels like its trying to be more like the comics it was based on unlike Nolan which was trying as hard as possible to be realistic

[@admassv84]

@@BaithNa Bruce in the Nolan trilogy was already set on his morals and what he wanted the batman to be. This Bruce is more mature from the get go. Bruce in The Batman 2022 is still a newbie and really immature (kinda ignorant and demeaning). He doesn’t understand the world, the people and what the Batman needs to be. He goes through a metamorphosis which leads him to change his mind on what the batman should be.

[@Somebody-mn8ip]

​@@BaithNaFirst off batman is a detective. He's a lot more violent and impulsive. He's closed off from the world. Overall this is a fresh take in batman cinema bringing us the aspect of vengeance and fear that the character really hasn't gotten plus he doesn't kill anyone

[@banthatracks_gaffisticks]

I've been waiting for Clayface.

[@tasonjodd]

Ozcobb sounds like they’re trying to say Oscorp lol

[@TheMaestroMizerous]

*Green Goblin laugh*

[@dragonsigner]

Look at the penguin they did in the Gotham TV series He did a very good job of that penguin in that TV series It was grounded and realistic somewhat.. I have no problem with that one at all.. And his name was still Oswald cobblepot.. He looked the part for penguin in his younger years.. They don't need to change penguin. He's great the way he is..

[@DavidMartinez-ce3lp]

Didn't that show make him gay for Riddler?😂

[@dragonsigner]

@@DavidMartinez-ce3lp I'm not sure about that I haven't gotten that far all the way into the seasons.. I've only done enough to maybe like the season 3 or 4 I think.. I'm trying to finish the rest of the seasons but Too much on my plate..

[@matityaloran9157]

@@DavidMartinez-ce3lpFor a time, yes, but they didn’t maintain that for all that long

[@KingKhupacabra]

It’s called comic book ADAPTATION! So there’s multiple stories about one character and INTERPRETATION. Like in the comics one character but hundreds of variations of the character and his/her world. You understand that? That’s what is being done here. Dcu Batman and Reeves’ Batman are INTERPRETED differently. Come on guys think 😂

[@petermj1098]

Yeah and Hollywood turned Dr Doom into a businessman in one movie and a hacker in another it sucked.

[@Gotham_bat759]

@@petermj1098Bingo

[@davidgalvez5341]

I guess it depends on what specific bits of the source material we're talking about. IMO "Spider-Man: No Way Home" was an (pun intended) amazing movie, but that didn't stop them from making fun of the name "Otto Octavius".

[@ToxicVex267]

Kinda off topic but I wish dc would stop reusing only their big name character and give some of the lesser known characters a show/game/movies. One I'd love to see is the Crimson Avenger3 (Jill Carlyle) such a cool concept sitting right there collecting dust.

[@SecretMagician]

Then you should watch Creature Commandos, Swamp Thing, Booster Gold, and The Authority when they come out soon. Those guys are either B or C tier DC characters.

[@l0sts0ul89]

​@@SecretMagician I wanna see a Captain Atom movie

[@black-fb1hw]

What's the problem in having one universe with realistic batman?? James gunn already said that his batman will be comic accurate.

[@rp1692]

Well said. If "The Penguin" is unrealistic as a villain name, I'd like to know how "The Batman" is realistic as a name. What did you think of "Batman Returns"? It certainly played fast and loose with the source material, but no one can accuse Tim Burton of shying away from fantasy.

[@RoronoaZoro-ur6hr]

I bought figures of Batman Returns because my most favorite aspect about the Batman is the Batfamily, and if I wanted a realistic anti-hero series then I'd just buy and read The Punisher MAX comics.

[@meciocio]

Nobody said anything about the penguin dude, the show is literally named The Penguin. Like take out the wax out of your ears before listening to something

[@kangaroo3708]

The he show is literally called penguin How could they be embarrassed if they called it that 😂 He gets called penguin in the penguin, which is the title of the show

[@rp1692]

@kangaroo3708 right, but at 5:55 it was stated that he isn't called the Penguin in the show. If you disagree with that then your response should be to Jesterbell, not just to me.

[@rp1692]

​@@meciocio you're the one who didn't listen. Around 5:55 she said he won't be called the Penguin in the show. Perhaps that's incorrect but it isn't my mistake, nor is it something I misheard.

[@ceasartorres9442]

I don’t mind Matt Reeves doing his grounded approach because he still allows Gotham to have character and interesting street level villains. His version is just a local crime fighter protecting his city. I am sure James Gunn will give his DC Studios’ Batman the proper comic book treatment. Also, Nolan’s Batman Begins is probably the best Batman origin on film and had a subtle comic, fun nature to it at times. Even his Gotham City had some character. It wasn’t until he did the two sequels where he went full real world. And I feel he missed th mark on those. Heath Ledger saved the sequel.

[@damjanmijajlovic3570]

They call him oswald like three times in the first episode

[@whrecordings]

That's the main reason I'm curious to see what Gunn does with DC Studios, he doesn't shy away from fantastical/weird characters or settings and DC needs to finally lean into the comic roots instead of trying to make everything "grounded."

[@KaiHouston-m6j]

Being close to realism, is a failure of imagination.

[@gloriathomas3245]

No its not and shows like Stargate and Grimm proves that

[@omniframe8612]

I wouldn’t say that at all. But with Batman in particular its a waste of time.

[@DavidMartinez-ce3lp]

​@@gloriathomas3245but those shows are fun. Reeves is relying only grittiness and realism. That's boring. That can only capture a few aspects of Batman, but it can't capture all of the character. It holds back Batman.

[@gloriathomas3245]

@@DavidMartinez-ce3lp um, no Reeves taking Batman back to the way Bob Kane conceived the character and stories.

[@DavidMartinez-ce3lp]

@@gloriathomas3245 and he's evolved over time. How about doing something different? A true balance of campy and grounded since that's what Batman is.

[@cargopilotguy305]

This is why batfleck will always be my favorite. I’m sick of ‘dude in military gear’ Batman. I’m sick of Batman being a guy who has trouble with groups of random thugs

[@fnspidey3825]

JesterBell hitting with the facts! That's why I can't watch the sequel I can't stand realistic simping batman

[@13Dstyle]

Great video Jester! I love poison ivy's arc in the arkham games. As well as Mr freeze. They are two villains that it seems like batman believes the most in, like he really believes they can be rehabilitated the most because he sees a lot of the pain in them that's in himself.

[@spider-manunknown9193]

It worked for TDK trilogy and I think it works for The Batman Saga but I would like a more comic book world adaptation for James Gunns Batman.

[@iy8-z1o]

People seem to confuse wanting dark with wanting realistic. Sure batman is dark, but its also goofy as hell. You've got a rich orphan with high tech gadgets dressing up as a bat and fighting evil ppl who dress up like clowns, scarecrows, cats, etc. Thats one thing i didnt like about the batman movie. They tried to make the riddler look and seem more "realistic." What they fail to realize is it can still be dark even if the riddler is a guy dressed in a green tuxedo with a question mark cane

[@4YrStasis]

Don't forger his riddles. The core personality of the riddler.

[@kimcampagna9383]

Keep the source material!😊

[@justaduck1652]

I’m really annoyed that people keep saying his name’s been changed to Oz Cobb. Cobblepot is the only part of his name that was changed. He’s literally referred to as Oswald Cobb in the first five minutes. Oz is just the nickname that he has in both the show and the comics.

[@IronPsyde]

@@BaithNa I can’t believe you could be so wrong with such confidence

[@synical13]

I always have mixed feelings whenever a certain style or tone is very well received because I know that many years of copycats will follow.

[@OrangeManGood2024]

The Penguin is a trailer park version of The Sopranos.

[@alucard21-17]

The issue is that you have people working on these projects that grew up with Batman 66 for their idea of Batman and the Godfather as ideal cinema. And the audience for these projects grew up with B;tas and something like Shrek or the MCU being peak cinema. Another problem is the allergy to animated cinematic films. We should have more than just the Spider-Verse in theaters for cost reasons. Animation is way cheaper than these CGI Marvel movies, but it seems like they still view everything as kiddish. It'll change when boomers and gen x is gone.

[@davidmckayii752]

Michael Keatons Batman was perfect. The new ones suck.

[@omniframe8612]

As much as i love the batman it irritated me that the batman aesthetic i wanted i got but they made it realistic, you could easily fit grundy, clay face, man bat and killer croc in the reeves world, they’ll always say their fav batman stories are the long halloween or The Dark Knight Returns. They don’t care about shit else, it seems.

[@kangaroo3708]

They’ve made movies influenced by Batman cult Batman no man’s land Batman Earth one Batman Knightfall Batman dark victory Batman the man who falls The dark knight returns That’s loads!

[@Drixenol86]

Remember when comic book movies felt like comic books? Pepperidge Farms remembers.

[@MademoiselleRed1390]

The thing is that because of the disastrous way in which WB handled DC, Gunn can't go back with Reeves Batman even if he wanted without causing an uproar. The Batman already happened and it was successful so if Gunn even dared to cancel it for the sake of having only one Batman, people would jumpt to his throat for it, especially without receipts to show for his own, or if it wasn't on part with Reeves' version. So we'll have to live with two Batmans, each with their own approach, for people to enjoy both or the one they prefer more. The only ways I see Reeves' Batman going away are 1) he stops after a certain number of movies or 2) Rob doesn't renew contract and we're left only with DCU Batman 3) his version somehow starts flopping and audiences themselves stop wanting his Batman.

[@Batman88878]

Preach it, sister!

[@DavidMartinez-ce3lp]

I agree, and I've been saying this for years. Batman isn't grounded. He's not a street level character. A true balance of campy and grounded is key to capturing Batman. Something like what Raimi was able to do with Spiderman in his trilogy. Honestly, Raimi would be an amazing director choice for a Batman movie.

[@ComicFan98]

He would be the definitive Batman director he’s a DC Fan

[@kangaroo3708]

@@ComicFan98 Matt Reeves is a dc fan too

[@therealtijuanaman]

I'm not trying to be mean here, but I feel like a lot of this is projecting. We don't know if Reeves is copying Nolan because it was successful, it could be Reeves' is more comfortable with something more grounded, we don't know if The Penguin was another script adjusted for the property, and the comment about painting in all black and thinking you're the greatest artist ever, come on! I don't think Matt Reeves thinks he's the greatest ever, I mean idk lol. I feel like The Batman, while similar to say The Dark Knight in that sense of 'lets make it somewhat realistic,' it has such a wildly different tone than any of the Dark Knight movies. The Penguin does seem very inspired by Joker in "let's take a comics book character and put him in taxi driver/the sopranos" but when the results are this good I can't really fault it

[@chuk19100]

What Nolan did was try to do something different than what was done before to make it more grounded to open people to the idea of a caped crusader. What Reaves is doing is just riding the coat tail of what nolan did i dont think he really cares or understands the character. Reaves movie is just a poor copy of what Nolan did, the movie didnt say anything or do anything that hasn't been done before. I really do not want a sequel i just want a BATMAN movie as silly and ridiculous as the Arkham games.

[@SolidSnake240]

Not a single lie was told in this video.

[@trevorpearlharbor5171]

The best example of a "realistic Batman" is Batman Earth-1. The comic opens with Bruce being a complete fuck up as Batman, but as the story progresses he begins to learn from the people around him and they, in a way, help him become a better Batman. If you havent read it, give it a go. Its a great read and is just wild enough to be entertaining. But with all that being said, Batman will NEVER be realistic, no matter what. Theres nothing realistic about a man in a Batsuit punching criminals. There's nothing realistic about recruiting a kid to fight dangerous criminals. And theres nothing realistic about his Rogues Gallery. So Hollywood should just fucking run with it! Add villains like Killer Croc, or Mad Hatter, or Maxi Zeus. Give us the Bat Family. I liked the Dark Knight and The Batman as movies, but lets delve into the more comic-esque stories!

[@ToxicVex267]

That actually sounds very interesting Ima have to give that a read.

[@trevorpearlharbor5171]

@@ToxicVex267 You should! It even has a pretty badass Alfred, one of my favorite versions of the character by far!

[@uzii6540]

The Batman is literally based off of earth 1

[@trevorpearlharbor5171]

@@uzii6540 Then it honestly didn't do a good job. It was a good movie, and a great crime thriller, but it pales in comparison to the comic. The length of the film and Catwoman's "story arc" are more or less what kept the movie from being great. In the comic, everyone gets some shine, and the twists and turns to the source material are actually surprising.

[@uzii6540]

@@trevorpearlharbor5171 “Based off of” was a strong phrase, I meant took inspiration from. And you can’t say a movie was kept from being great when it did nothing but succeed. Only people that complain about the length are people with short attention spans. Literally every minute of the movie was needed which is why it performed so well.

[@breaku45]

Realistic Batman was fun. But that limits his villains. It’s a shame that we never got that solo Batfleck film. His version of the character perfectly set up Under the Red Hood storyline.

[@SOM-v4o]

Oswald Cobblebot sounds way more badass. Why do they have to ruin a good thing happening.

[@eon001]

I would normally agree, but a high fantasy Batman would be redundant when Brave and the Bold Batman is released. I don't mind a pocket universe with CSI Batman.

[@TheGuesteMC]

It's Oswald Cobb

[@Dylanisa_BasketCase]

No it's not

[@gontse1386]

​@@Dylanisa_BasketCaseit is

[@matityaloran9157]

Even if that’s the case, the name change seems pointless

[@TheGuesteMC]

@@matityaloran9157 it is

[@log7395]

I honestly believe that Reeves had to change some of his ideas because when James Gunn arrived, they basically split it in “I take the fantasy side, you take the realistic and gritty”, because in the first interviews he said that he would have loved to explore not only Mr Freeze, but also the Scarecrow in a more traditional way. But then, I honestly think that Matt Reeves is doing such a good job that i honestly don’t care if he thinks that some things can’t work, the things he’s doing are definitely more than enough to cover for his “missings”, and about Reeves loving the comic books, he literally loves them. I mean, just because he has a plan about making his Batman realistic it doesn’t mean he can’t love the more esoteric aspects of the world of the character. I mean, he took inspiration from Batman Ego, in which Bruce talked to a bat demon that was the representation of his crusade. I just believe that he has to say things like “comic books don’t work entirely” because it is a better excuse than “James Gunn wants the fantasy aspects so I have to go realistic to differentiate the character”

[@yamibrian3099]

They have to make these movies for the average person that dosen't like comic books sadly. If they make it to much like a comic book people complain it looks like a videogame. I just want a movie where Batman has existed for 10 years and villains already exist. No more origins

[@matityaloran9157]

Speaking on behalf of non-comic book enthusiasts, there’s a lot more that we can handle in comic book adaptations then you think. The 2002 Spider-Man had a scene where Green Goblin turns people into skeletons with his bombs. The movie’s still great and had mainstream appeal. These movies can be corny without suffering for it. (Also, I don’t view superhero origin movies as a problem at all.)

[@yamibrian3099]

@matityaloran9157 A lot of average viewers like "grounded" batman because most don't know anything outside the movies. They don't understand Batman exists in a fictional universe like Spider-Man. I get these movies have to be made for everyone which is why we have to see Batman's parents die in every movie. It's like when "reviewers" complain about the '84 Tranformers movie which takes place and not knowing who the characters are.

[@19jez89]

So why are Marvel movies the way they are then? Average people who don't like comic books are the exact people who contribute to Marvel schlock regularly smashing box offices.

[@yamibrian3099]

@@19jez89 Most marvel movie "fans" are just following a trend at the time. The mcu died from wokeness which made fans mad but trend seekers don't know any better all they care about is watching memes of the movies. Normies are tired of the multiverse which is a big part of comics. These realistic Batman movies have to be made easy to follow and easy to clip for tik tok and social media. Doing a character like Ma Gunn or Hush would be too complicated for normies so we get Tony Soprano as the penguin but don't call him Penguin or Oswald.

[@19jez89]

@@yamibrian3099 I haven't seen a Marvel film since I think Iron Man 2 so admittedly I'm no authority. Obviously I am aware of the wokeness etc, but it was my understanding that bar a few duds here and there, people still show up in droves to watch them. Anyway, I wasn't necessarily looking to debate you or anything as like I said, I've very much a noob when it comes to these matters. I'm just not necessarily convinced that if Batman films were less grounded they'd be less successful, as general audiences don't seem to have too much of an issue with comic book films if the last 2 decades is anything to go by. Regarding Batman films, I think the last thing they are is easy to follow. Maybe I'm just not the brightest bulb, but the first time I saw The Batman a lot of the intricacies of the plot went sailing over my head. I'd be surprised if most normie audiences would have been able to give you a succinct plot summary first time round either. Maybe you're right about the characters though, but I've only ever dabbled with the comics so I couldn't say. I'm one of the dreaded "grounded" fans who really loved Year One, so the modern film adaptations are right up my alley. Even Dark Knight Returns was a bit too much for me (as soon as Superman shows up I kind of check out and I thought the Mutants were a bit lame). I loved the story of Long Halloween enough to look past the fantastical elements though. I've never read anything with Ma Gunn or Hush, but they seem like the kind of characters that would actually be well suited to a "realistic" film adaptation. A plastic surgeon and a woman who trains young criminals? Seem ripe for the big screen.

[@memes_for_kings]

Totally disagree with this video. You can find a balance or go realistic. But campy just doesnt work for the character(60s TV show) Besides these films didnt go as far as Todd Phillips Joker films.

[@MademoiselleRed1390]

OMG YES!! I thought the same thing, it was so stupid!!! How is Oz Cobb more realistic? To me it sounds like Oscorp from Marvel lol. He's the freaking Penguin, let him have the freaking OG name cause no one would mind. They created a problem NO ONE had. Also, people could still call him Oz to shorten his name, even if the longer name was the legal one. There was no need to make that stupid clarification about using a realistic name.

[@scarybarry1323]

Well shoot, I tend to like Batman stories that start off grounded, but get increasingly fantastical as the city loses its marbles It’s also really sad because I felt that with the tone of the first movie, it would have been perfect to go coocoo eventually

[@TotesRandom]

Batman lends itself to realism because of 2 factors - Batman doesny rely on supernatural abilities - so EVERYone can relate to him in thinking the best of themselves "yeah, if i was a billionaire, i would do that too!" And, also because of no fantasy powrers being needed also means it can use the Robin Hood effect of you believing someone in real life today could do the same thing if they were a billionaire. Nothing is more powerful to an audience than immersion in believability because it is chiefly what sucks an audience in. If you want someone to blame, blame Joel Schumacher, who made the early batman movies SO cringe-inducingly over-the-top comic-y that everyone rolled their eyes.

[@robchuk4136]

Every movie version of Batman is a direct response to the previous version. The last one was fighting aliens, so now he's brought back to the streets. Don't worry the pendulum will swing the other way back towards something more fantastical in the next one (which I guess is James Gunn, and that looks to be his goal)

[@josesarango3408]

best Jesterbell video

[@DavidMartinez-ce3lp]

If I were making a Batman live action movie, i would start with Batman adopting Dick Grayson after the death of the Flying Graysons. Make it about Batman trying to investigate who killed them and why. All while trying to balance being a father and being Batman. Teaching Dick Grayson to not allow his thirst for revenge consume him. To choose to bring the man who killed his parents to justice. Dick earns the name Robin, and the dynamic duo go off to have many adventures.

[@ComicFan98]

Wow!!!! That’s awesome!!!!!! Write it down!!!! Write it Down!!!!!

[@DavidMartinez-ce3lp]

@@ComicFan98 Thanks! 😊

[@Macktube]

I agree with most of what you said but I think there can be a balance between realistic and Traditional, but when you really look at it, we have multiple Batman projects going on. If you want the grounded style, you can just watch the Matt Reeves movies. If you want him fighting supernatural villains, you can watch the Ben Affleck one the DCEU movies. We have both going on at the same time, so we get the best of both worlds.Nobody has to just follow one thing. The Penguin show was incredible. I don't think it would have been as good if it were following the comics, Penguin, it's more compelling the way they did it.

[@johnnievseverybody]

This won’t age well

[@TheStrings-83639]

Vince Gilligan: *laughs in Saul Goodman*

[@ViniciusFigueiredo19]

Hollywood doesnt seem to care about comics anymore, if it ever did, its all about capitalizing on known brands w the most acessible approach

[@allenreevearrows2553]

0:38 that sounds like a *corn* to me 🤣🌽

[@Hades69099]

In hindsight I wish they would have just done the DCEU batman movie because the batman is a very divisive film. It's not universally loved. Some people love it, some are bothered by it. If the DCEU batman had gotten made it would have kept people united. Walter Hamada seemed to want to movie away from a connected universe though, so he ordered the batman to be its own universe.

[@rp1692]

I would have liked that too but when you remember how divisive "Batman Vs Superman" was then it's difficult to guarantee that a DCEU Batman film would have united the fans... though obviously when Snyder brought out his version of "Justice League", it was much better received than the Whedon cut, so at that point there was an increased appetite for seeing more of Affleck, but either he was no longer interested or the studio wasn't willing to move in that direction.

[@maverickslb80]

I hated how pretensious (and boring) The Batman was.

[@ΑΛΕΞΑΝΔΡΑ-ε1ω]

to be fair a lot of people prefer realiasm because they can relate with the characters better they feel that the more comic booky elements don't really belong in live action movies they consider them childish and better left for animation which is still considered a medium for children

[@RoronoaZoro-ur6hr]

Zoro from One Piece can bench press all of the bar bells with the lightest to heaviest pounds of metal weights, yet he's more iconic than Batman is, so fantasy is objectively better than reality.

[@l0sts0ul89]

​@@RoronoaZoro-ur6hrok ok hold on there buddy, Batman is WAY more iconic than Zoro.

[@RoronoaZoro-ur6hr]

@@l0sts0ul89 , Zoro is the second most popular One Piece character in the world, and the One Piece manga outsold Batman comics and Harry Potter novels, so yes Zoro is way more iconic than Batman is.

[@l0sts0ul89]

@@RoronoaZoro-ur6hr Batman has literally been around for DECADES, is like saying Zoro is more popular than GOKU. It's just not true. Literally 1939, so what if Zoro sells more when Batman has ingrained itself into media itself. Like you're a god damn liar if you honestly think Zoro is more iconic then BATMAN someone who's had world wide popularity and appeal since most people who read one piece were born.

[@AsgersWeb]

Anyone who knows Batman will see just how much Reeves loves that character. It's utter disgrace to say he's embarrassed because a show he's not the show runner of has a name change. The movie is goofy as hell, and it's utter non sense to say he's embarrassed.

[@tylerscott2116]

I do think that due to the valid success of the dark knight trilogy, there will be a permanent schism between realistic and unrealistic superhero films. If someone can do grounded well and its cohesively sound to the character, go for it. Joker 1 and The Batman have been successful in that right. I say, the commitment to groundedness with Reeves, leaves a vacuum to be fulfilled with Gunn. Dont be discouraged as a fan, and have problems with Reeves projects, appreciate them for what they are. And trust.....the fantastical stuff you yern for, James Gunn WILL DELIVER. Be patient, be hopefull. Fantastical Batman is the true Batman! Hes The Worlds Greatest Detective in a world where Martian Manhunter is also a detective and relies on the skillsets and his powersets specific amplification of those skills to fight crime. Hes a better Detective than a Detective with Precognition, Telepathy, Super Senses, and Superhuman Intelligence. Batman is The World's Greatest Ninja in that he can somehow be stealthy even against Superman and Martian Manhunter. Dont worry! That will come! But there is absolutely no problem with a realistic take on the Batman property, it isnt ashamed of its source material....It embraces it! Batman Year One references Taxi Driver, The Long Halloween The Godfather. Why wouldnt it make sense to take the precedented cinematic realistic style of non comic book film to present a comic book movie?

[@ahmorgan]

Disagree. Im enjoying this take and who cares about the name. The story is better than the comics (im referring to the penguin btw)

[@jonathancruz1764]

so incredibly well said. hope people in the industry see this video!

[@MRF1983]

I hate how a fan like yourself, who expresses why they like what they like and wants the things about what they like to be present in the adaptations of those things, is referred to as a "toxic fan" for expressing their frustration that those things are absent. Our like of the things being adapted is what made them successful and popular in the first place. The people who make the changes to those things for their adaptations aren't embarrassed of the source material, they're embarrassed of the fans of that source material and they don't want us, they want to attract a different audience with their takes. This is why we see so many beloved IPs floundering in current day, because people who don't like those IPs are being sought out to make them. They want to purge the already existing audiences from those IPs. It's happening across all mediums of entertainment. Upset that a game is making drastic changes to core mechanics of storytelling and gameplay? You need to accept that they're adapting to reach a broader audience. Frustrated that a show adaptation about a beloved IP made drastic changes to characters and events? You're a toxic fan and your toxic opinions are violence. Confused why a well known IP was so altered from it's source material for a movie to the point that it's virtually only recognizable as that IP because it has the same name? Well, that because it wasn't made for you, but when it flops, it's your fault because you didn't pay to watch what wasn't made for you.

[@NoName-ym5zj]

I love Mat Revees' Batman so don't really care. To me, the main aspect they need to nail down is the film noir aspect which is the version of Batman I like the most. We already have James Gunn doing DCU movies to have a more comic book, fun version of Batman.

[@allelitechannel5367]

Hack Reeves.

[@LaPaisiblePetiteGnomette]

Personally, I'm not against this artistic approach cause I enjoyed Matt Reeves Batman, It's giving Neo-Noir movie aspect and I really appreciate that, but you're right fantasy is not an "accessory" to plots but more an element that give depth to characters... Sadly, I think that bad Marvel movies gave this bad reputation and caricatural aspect to superheroes movies. I also think that creating a complete accurate movie to his original comics roots is maybe impossible. It could be impressive in a way but also boring in another way. I appreciate comics for what it is, I generally don't like live action movies for this reason.

[@cha-cha3277]

You usually have pretty good takes on comic media but I feel like this criticism is misdirected. His name isn’t really “Oz Cobb”, considering his mom in the show calls him Oswald so he still is Oswald. Also he’s meant to be a lower class person who comes from an immigrant background (in this show at least) who often had simple last names or were forced to trim their last names. So yes it’s a change for “realism”, it’s realism to fit this specific vision of the character

[@bhvvlogs7814]

I put these on in the background while I play obscure computer games, but I had to pause and comment - this is incredibly well said and I, as a die-hard Batman comic fan, applaud this young lady's passion.

[@universoullifebalance]

Thank you 🙏🏾!! I’m glad to see videos like this we need more! I loved The Batman and the Nolon Trilogy but I’m done with this “realistic universe “ approach . It has ran its course and I’m ready to see the Bat Family and many of my favorite villains and allies on screen. I was satisfied with “The Batman “ it brought back Batman as a detective and made Gotham a true character that needs no description of words back to film but I’m good on my “reality Batman it’s time to move on ..