Stormcloaks or Imperials? Skyrim Political Analysis

[@diavolo7470]

Grey beard dudes: Dovakin you are the dragon born you are the choosen ! Dragonborn:*Joins thief guys*

[@brysetonwescott9573]

It's the best when I ended up doing a lot of the other factions main quests before moving on to the Thieves Guild. At one point, when I asked someone if they were trying to kill me, he said that he would have hired the Dark Brotherhood to do so, which was funny to me, considering I was the leader of them at that point. Same with them telling me to be careful in Winterhold while I was the Archmage of the College and had already let the Imperials into the city as per the truce between the Empire and the Stormcloaks. Just amusing to do early game content late, since they treat all of the "later game" content as something formidable.

[@Ishamv3]

@@brysetonwescott9573 Yeah, I feel guilty every time I enter the College of Winterhold in Thieves Guild uniform, and nobody stops, attacks, or even questions me.

[@bungerbungerbunger246]

Dragonborn: *joins assassin cult*

[@arbodeltaco]

the dragonborn isn't necessarily meant to be good

[@jamesmccloud7535]

@@arbodeltaco he is actually.

[@andrewfullerton1379]

Step 1: Side with Empire Step 2: Assassinate the Emperor

[@CenturionMariusVinicius]

I did that on my first playthrough, I was like "Well, it looks like I'm an umpredictable mother fucker"

[@CenturionMariusVinicius]

And then I killed the man who ordered the Emperor's death, just because the Emperor asked this as his last wish.

[@mat5637]

the emperor was one of the only person a genuily felt bad of killing... i knew it, he accepted his fate. just a man of honor ready to die in peace.

[@CenturionMariusVinicius]

I felt bad for Victoria Vicci too (I think that's how we spell it). I mean, she was so happy for her marriage when I spoke with her, I spent 20 whole seconds until I finally got the courage to kill her and end the mission.

[@TheJaker88]

yeah my first char was a Nord, that joined the Imperials and killed the emperor xD

[@Iris.ChaoticEvil]

Incorrect, the correct side to be on is partysnax and the greybeards. Skyrim belongs to the old guys with beards who live on a mountain and listen to an ancient dragon.

[@carnsolus]

oh you mean that random dragon the blades asked me to kill?

[@sanspeter9925]

partysnax

[@AmiableApple]

A Damn Fiddle and dance to almighty chicken

[@meowmers7085]

Paarthurnax

[@GStastny0]

Partysnax>Paarthurnax! You can never have enogh Partysnax.

[@unionsocialist4611]

I...do not think the apparence of the general or how the armour looks counts as political analysis

[@pandiwashere8193]

My guy if some dude with cool armor tried to run for president they would have my vote 100%

[@arifcso6633]

Vote Obama because he has great armor lol

[@ElPayasoMalo]

I, too, would vote Communist Party if the guy had cool red tie.

[@charlie1234500]

@@arifcso6633 lol He certainly does in the landscape of identity politics.

[@idkk9013]

@@charlie1234500 your profile picture is killing me

[@Tribune_of_Italia]

It doesn't matter who's the most powerful, because the dragonborn decides who wins in the end.

[@HumanOfPrey]

Heroes depart after their prophecies are fulfilled: thus was the case of the Vestige, thus was the case of the Nerevarine, thus was the case with the Champion of Cyrodiil, thus will be the case of the Dragonborn

[@jackal5359]

+HumanOfPrey unless he gains immortality from hermaeus mora like miraak did

[@HumanOfPrey]

Random combat evolved elite If Miraak were immortal then you wouldn't be able to kill him.

[@InsaynZane01]

+HumanOfPrey You didn't kill Miraak,Herma-Mora did so yeah took a GOD to kill Miraak.

[@HumanOfPrey]

Nathaniel Wilkey If Mora killed Miraak then why did he need YOU to deal with him?

[@wolfofsolace349]

My only problem with joining the Empire is the fact that Maven Black-Briar becomes the Jarl of Riften, basically making it the most corrupt city in Skyrim.

[@stokey99]

it was corrupt anyway! by them

[@kosipisakii]

Riften is like Gotham in Skyrim and it's awesome

[@stokey99]

......

[@Mythinu]

maven was in control of riften in everything besides name. not much changes when she becomes jarl, because law-giver was only in control in name. the fact of the matter is, the only thing that changes in politics is the fact of where she sits during the day

[@stokey99]

i said that in short form Mythinu

[@0307scott]

General Tullius is against the Aldmeri Domiion. It would have been a good quest line if you could boot the Thalmor out of Skyrim. At the "Peace" meeting at High Hrothgar I tell the Thalmor Ambassador Elenwen to get out, all though I supported the Empire I will not have the Thalmor attend the meeting. I'm constantly attacked by Thalmor Justicars, no matter where in Skyrim I am.

[@straxwb]

Killing them is one of my favourite things to do in Skyrim, honestly.

[@0307scott]

Mine too.

[@regular_ian]

I agree with both of you

[@raynes6286]

Stark Avenger I think that would be too major an event to tag onto Skyrim, you'd have Tullius' men and presumably the Stormcloaks forging a large Skyrim Military that'd be separate from the rest of the Empire. I recon the issue will be addressed in the next ES, hopefully they'll have an engine good enough to support the amount of troops on screen for a battle in the Second Great War.

[@natelandherr5202]

Exactly why I joined the Stormcloaks as a Bosmer in my first playthrough, Racism beats Thalmor genocide. Now in my second playthrough, also as a Bosmer, I haven't joined a side.

[@TheCheesybeef]

I’d rather have Jarl Balgruuf as High King

[@sir.spider]

He is a foolish Jarl, ULFRIC IS THE TRUE HIGH KING

[@TheCheesybeef]

@@sir.spider I'll meet you halfway with Nils, the cook at Candlehearth Hall, as High King.

[@sir.spider]

Hey, what if the imperials and the stormcloaks go back to slaughtering the aldmeri dominion

[@TheCheesybeef]

@@sir.spider one can hope

[@asparagoose8992]

TheCheesybeef “can’t just throw the big logs on the fire, gotta have the little ones too”

[@joshuameeks385]

People in Skrim say Ulfric is the truest Nord of us all but I think the truest Nord is Jarl Bulgruuf the Greater

[@TheBorogrove]

Joshua Meeks Nah Baalgraf is a total ass. Think of what he does for you; you rock up after nearly being executed and he immediately sends you off to fight a dragon as you have "the most experience". You somehow survived and he "rewards" you by making you a carer for his ungrateful, intellectually disabled and rejected illegitimate daughter Lydia. "I am sworn to carry your burdens". Must have been stoked to get rid of her onto a sucker like you. You pay 5000 gold for a house and it is the worst house in the game and called "Breezehome" as it is full of holes. Lydia is the only one who lives in it anyway scoffing down your sweet rolls all day. He is a hypocrite accepting gold to stop talks worship while secretly worshipping him himself. Gray-mane as jarl is keen to capture the dragon but baalgraf is incredibly self interested as usual. He even just abandons his kids when he leaves after surrendering. I wish I the ebony blade quest hadn't been gutted so we could have had his crappy kids kill him.

[@gabo1841997]

He is also a great, pragmatist ruler.

[@baltonus1120]

Joshua Meeks what? XD please tell me is a Joke, he received huge sums of gold by the empire to shush and cooperate with them, his housecarl mentions it and he gets angry for her to mention it

[@dbsale7425]

Jarl balling

[@Galaxy-rj1kj]

American Patriot4041 boi

[@jexalmak3847]

"I don't like the Stormcloak armor" *shows a super low quality image" "But the Imperial armor..." * shows an image of Skyrim with HD texture mods*

[@metatronyt]

I can't say no you are wrong, you do have a valid point xD

[@zertualb820]

Metatron I hate the empire they tried to kill you in the beginning

[@zertualb820]

True I have been both imperial and stormcloak but I will choose stormcloak the legion is a donkey

[@Make_Solstiem_Great_Again]

Ulfric did the exact same thing if not worse after retaking Markarth from the forsworn

[@zertualb820]

The stromcloaks have flaws i will agree by imperials can died in a hole because gives you better weapons and missions that are better

[@achicken2699]

What about us chickens of riverwood! We were at the greybeard peace meating too!..... just on the table......

[@achicken2699]

get it... "meating"

[@secutorprimus]

This one believes in you.

[@joer.6548]

Shut up you stupid no good little clucker!

[@bearski8947]

A Chicken lol

[@dragongeneral7802]

you funny😒😒😓😔😔😔😔

[@MrHarumakiSensei]

Yeah, Imperial gear is better. That's why you should join the Stormcloaks so you can make a fortune selling off all the armour from slain Imperials.

[@fzzy5739]

based

[@neoqwerty]

Join the Stormcloaks so you don't get a bounty attacking the Thalmor patrols first, they have more expensive AND lighter armor. Meanwhile as Empire you have to stick to them for like 30 seconds before they get tired of you and attack.

[@springheeljak145]

I usually follow Ralof in Helgen for this eason

[@lordmegatron4789]

the title says political analysis yet you go on for 10 minutes about which faction looks more stylish lololololol

[@lordmegatron4789]

i can't argue with a response like that

[@tco8439]

presentation is like 90% of politics :P its all smoke and mirrors.

[@kingchris9167]

nick bergman If you dig into the thalmor embassy, you will figure out that sulfuric sold out troop movements to the Thalmor for gold. While that gold did fund the war against the imperials, it allowed the imperials to kill many soldiers. For that reason I sides with the empire.

[@HGodwin1]

king chris That is absolutely incorrect. Ulfric's dossier in the Embassy reads: "Under interrogation, we learned of his potential value (son of the Jarl of Windhelm) and he was assigned as an asset to the interrogator, who is now First Emissary Elenwen. He was made to believe information obtained during his interrogation was crucial in the capture of the Imperial City (the city had in fact fallen before he had broken), and then allowed to escape." He was interrogated for information. Then he got the 1984 treatment and *was made to believe* that information obtained led to the fall of the Imperial City. He was tortured for information and then tricked into believing he sold out his country to the Thalmor. That's a far cry from selling out the Empire for gold.

[@onup1475]

I do agree that the general has some NICE armor.... just another reason to join the storm cloaks

[@natu101yay]

You think the elves have it bad? The kahjiit and argonians are not even allowed in windhelm.

[@Hackneyed]

I dont know I am a khajitt and I get into windhelm pretty fine

[@natu101yay]

+Tomlou24 The NPC kahjiit and argonians are not allowed in. Obviously Bethesda wouldn't block you from entering a city because of your race.

[@Hackneyed]

+natu101yay heres the thing if the guards say skyrim and her people does that exclude khajitts and other guys

[@Hackneyed]

+natu101yay which one would you choose stormcloak or empire

[@natu101yay]

+Tomlou24 It depends on the city, if it is stormcloak controlled the mean the nords only, the imperials mean everyone. I chose the empire.

[@actomobile]

I chose Stormcloaks everytime for a sole purpose of revenge for having the Imperials trying to chop off my head on the first encounter

[@Valencetheshireman927]

It was one imperial captain. It’s not like the emperor himself ordered it .🤷‍♂️

[@lakkakka]

@@Valencetheshireman927 general tulius was there and didn't stop it. Since he is the leader of the legion there, all the legion deserves to die as long as they serve him. Everyone there that doesn't do something or say something deserves to die, because they expedited my death. And without ulric and his stormcloaks I'd never been arrested for bupkiss. So they deserve to die as well. So I refrain from joining either.In my headcanon my archmage has mindaltering spells which made delphine less off a bitch about the whole pa'arthunax thing. Besides as long as he is alive I have someone to spar with and practice my dragonspeech. If he becomes a threat I can kill him then. Delphine should understand this. I do become the thane of all reaches.

[@coachlombardi9657]

That's exactly why I joined the first time I played, but after that, I decided to just stay neutral, though I have been feeling like joining the Imperials after hearing a lot of bad things about Ulfric Stormcloak and the things he did.

[@Valencetheshireman927]

@Iakkakka- General Tullius didn’t stop it because he was busy dealing with the Thalmor and remember. The player is caught in an imperial ambush WITH Stormcloaks which makes things just a bit suspicious even if you aren’t on the list . You say all the Legion there deserve to die as long as they serve them but why ? Don’t you think that sounds a bit over the top ? Many of those Legionnaires didn’t do anything because they COULDN’T because it was the responsibility of the imperial commander holding the list and actually Hadvar does try to help the player so by your logic he shouldn’t die right even though he supports general Tullius . You are right about Ulfric deserving to die because he is indeed responsible for your being captured in the first place . In response to your head cannon thing .Ok.

[@greggoodman3303]

@@Valencetheshireman927 8:57 General Tullius busy with watching execution... Both sides of this conflict are bad. One side will try to kill me without proper sentence, the other one are racists (I play Argonian/Khajiit 80% of the time).

[@Conscious-01]

You joined the imperials! Let me guess some one stole your sweet roll!!!

[@AllinSBlack]

OMG LOL

[@humanskinnergames4520]

Wrong ! You shot me in the knee! Btw your not dragonborn such a thing surely that's not possible

[@pooferrsure2184]

The empire sees the bigger picture there smarter then ulfric plus ulfric is rascist and a murderer!!!

[@Αντωνηςλιυδακης]

@@pooferrsure2184 well were do y see something wrong with that

[@MrAdamBrower]

🤣

[@AnishChari]

"Skyrim Political Analysis" "The Empire are best because they have cooler looking armor"

[@shadysam7161]

I just.... Really like Rome...

[@AngryFishing]

Lol

[@CoolGuy-pn1vm]

Pants? No? Ok.

[@finn_in_the_bin5263]

-me sorting my Yu-Gi-Oh! cards at 7 years old

[@Ikcatcher]

How I role play my character is that even though he’s a Nord, he sides with the Imperial because he doesn’t hate Argonian or Elves but hates how the Thalmor have weakened the Empire

[@rawr5760]

Yes the nords are the empire! but its the damn thalmor :(

[@seand.g423]

"Doesn't hate Argonians or elves" And what about Reachfolk, then?

[@colorpg152]

@@seand.g423 except the dark elves have taken asylum in his city and have remained there for centuries and there is a dark elf spy, also the argonians also hate the dark elves and the other elves on the city agree the dark elves are being arrogant, ulfric is already giving them asylum he doesn't have any obligation to do more and its perfectly fine to prioritize his own people over a bunch over foreigners who should have left a long time ago

[@miguelcondadoolivar5149]

Ulfric is protecting the Argonians and Dark Elves from each other. There's great historical enmity between the two races.

[@MrGibbs-cr9zs]

"Whoever has the coolest looking armor"

[@ra_alf9467]

So, Thalmor Justiciar, eh?

[@danilima6970]

@@ra_alf9467 totally,their tunics are like wizard batman.

[@sub2zocrixpls328]

Mr. Gibbs stormcloak looks cooler. The imperial’s have skirts and high boots like little girls when their grown ass men

[@MrGibbs-cr9zs]

@@sub2zocrixpls328 yeah the TES V Imperials have laughable armor

[@zach4832]

YaBoiXaraz I’m sorry but the Stormcloak (males) have beer guts... they don’t look intimidating either.

[@TheBrothergreen]

I always find it funny when someone's argument is "i like to roleplay my skyrim." You can't "roleplay" either faction. You, dovakin, have equal claim to the throne as ulfric the Usurper, and you are going to go to him and gravel at his feet and beg to single-handedly install him on the throne of skyrim? Really? You, thane of a dozen cities, leader of a dozen guilds, arch-mage of all skyrim, emissary to the psijic order and one of the wealthiest denizens of the land, and oh yeah, the only other wielder of the voice who can stand against ulfric stormcloak in all of skyrim, are going to take a position in the empire's military *below* a general? Both sides should literally be begging you to join them... and even then, a role-player would probably just shrug, say "there's nothing you can give me worth my time" and maybe, *MAYBE,* not join the war on a 3rd side. If you're lucky.

[@VandalCleaver]

He's High King Ulfric Stormcloak,he was High King from the moment Torygg felt life escape his frail body.A man with the power that a Dovahkiin has can still be a meek liberal in his ideology,something that would bring Tamriel to ruin.People like Ulfric are needed for their mind,his will my hands.

[@GCChrist]

TheBrothergreen And dragons have domination and rebellion against authority in their nature, so if the option were presented our dear dovahkii

[@GCChrist]

Accidentally hit send on that comment, sorry about that I was going to say that our dear dovahkiin would gladly accept the opportunity.

[@17MrLeon]

Wiat you play multiple questlines with one same character?

[@TroubleGummie]

TheBrothergreen most people who actually role play their character don't do 100% of the game. A rogue character might join the thieves and dark brotherhood and avoid the war, or join the war from the shadows. Mage character joins the mages guild duh. And so on with different types of characters

[@theminingbra]

of course the british guy goes with the impericals damn red coats

[@Anonymousteadrinka]

Steve Harvey hey im English and im a stormcloak and us angles were rebels way before we were damn imperials

[@snakelord0630]

Ha ha lol

[@Anonymousteadrinka]

Steve Harvey your all just but hurt we bunt down the White house and won that war

[@SaetherOfficial]

I'm gonna guess that you have since found out that he is Italian... lol

[@randommandoade1465]

He's Italian. He's from Sicily whitch is in ITALY not THE UNITED KINGDOM AND NORTHERN IRELAND!

[@vunix1234567890]

I always choose the Imperials! We still hold Talos in our hearts, for this is Talos' empire! (Although we shouldn't be letting the Thalmor run around Skyrim as they please... we ALL know they're after the Stones)

[@F4aXxZ]

+Joe Carne The thing is most don't understand that the Imperials doesn't like the Thalmor but atm they have to follow the white-gold concordat till they can fight for it again...

[@vunix1234567890]

Exactly. The Empire doesn't want those Thalmor Fucks having their way anymore than the traitors do.

[@DouchebagAssholeify]

+DragonSlayer673 The empire itself does not. It's just one of the conditions of their current truce.

[@gregheffly]

+DragonSlayer673 because of the thalmor. think prohibition in the USA

[@vunix1234567890]

DragonSlayer, it is because the Thalmor knew that banning Talos worship would cause rebellion. The Thalmor want Skyrim defenseless so they can go in and destroy Snow Throat.

[@DarkZholt]

I played as an Imperial and sided with the Legion. I would always wear Imperial Armor with a Talos necklace, using my fashion to make it clear that I was against the religious oppression going on. I gave no mercy to the Thalmor and helped the Stormcloaks a few times because they were not always wrong, but still, their wish for secession is not the best thing for Skyrim and is not the best thing for the Empire of Talos.

[@olvustin6671]

...that's the stupid thing, you would've been get caught and imprisoned for talos worship. If you support talos you are team stormcloak mate as easy as that. -Random guy 5 year later

[@aggressiveworshiper3155]

@@olvustin6671it’s not that black and white

[@olvustin6671]

@@aggressiveworshiper3155 it actually is, if he is openly worshipping Talos he would've been arrested, the only reason he isn't arrested is that this is a game. Edit (I didn't wanna make two comments) One can't be like "I worship talos but I am with the empire because they have a better chances" this won't slip away from thalmor they would definitely use this to crack down on him. This is the exact reason Stormcloaks are fighting, cuz they like Talos and thalmor bastards are dragging people out from their HOME, like the most personal space possible. To think one can openly say they are picking the side of the talos is wild (if they also say they are working with the empire)

[@robbietheweirdo]

@@olvustin6671 i mean when you kill ulfric rikke say's "Talos guide you" so the empire will allow their own to worship talos

[@ManHamLym]

​@@olvustin6671you could worship talos. Just not publicly. But when the rebellion began the thalmor came to stop worship. Stormcloaks are the reason the thalmor are there. Its their own fault

[@crageth]

I played both factions once and hated both, I said screw the war, I am in the dragon hunter faction now... I hate it that you HAVE to decide for one side, why cant you bring peace or (What would be my choice) kill them all. I would wipe the stormcloaks, the imperials and the elves. Screw them all. Give me my modded lightsaber, a black robe and a lightning spell and I will hunt them all down.

[@TheMineCats]

technically you can, don't do any Civil War missions until you capture the dragon for Balgruff (jarl of Whiterun), and he will trigger the mission Season Unending, in which you and the Graybeards hold a peace summit

[@crageth]

Yeah like for how long? Until the end of the mission? Screw both factions xD

[@TheMineCats]

cragethGER until you intervene. unless you make it otherwise, Skyrim will be at peace.

[@officernasty6023]

cragethGER Yeah! Why can't I bring peace to two (and a half) fundamentally opposed Factions? Why can't I destroy a convoluted empire that has endured for 3,000 years? Why can't I kill an entire idea? Why can't I be Jesus?!

[@abyssstrider2547]

cragethGER nooo don't be in dragon slayer faction be in greybeards faction and don't kill their dragon he is only one who should stay alive

[@Captain_Samerica]

The reason it’s so tough for me is because I agree with the Stormcloaks’ desire for freedom and autonomy, but I also like Solitude and Whiterun a lot more than Windhelm. I also usually play a “nord hero” character, so that makes it hard from a rp perspective to side with the empire. I feel better about myself siding with the Stormcloaks, but I prefer the actual in-game effects of siding with the Imperials.

[@finn_in_the_bin5263]

i have a somewhat similar stance, i honestly kind of agree with the stormcloaks just as much as i do the imperials, but 1- i don't trust ulfric, and 2- their impatience may well be not just their downfall but the downfall of the empire as well, leaving both sides war-torn and weary when the thalmor inevitably attack again

[@pestolinguine7281]

Hadvar and Legate Rikke are nords but they are part of the Imperial Legions

[@Captain_Samerica]

@@pestolinguine7281 They’re spineless traitors

[@Enaccul]

I feel like even as a nord tho, siding with the stormcloaks ultimately just weakens skyrim and the empire enough that the Thalmor will just sweep in after and remove what very little resistance is left. Especially since it's established that the empire presence in skyrim is just a much smaller portion of the empire's larger military which is really fighting the Thalmor. The Thalmor are the real villans so joining the stormcloaks, at least during the events of skyrim is really really dumb if you actually care about freedom and autonomy because you'll have even less (if you survive) after the thalmor take over because you defeated the force holding them back. Can the stomcloaks defeat the empire presence in skyrim? Yes those resistance freedom fighters CAN barely win, if the dragonborn helps. Can they defeat the entire empire? Lol no, the Thalmor? Lol no, even the empire is struggling. So no, I feel like joining the stormcloaks is the surest way to doom skyrim, maybe all of Tamriel to be ruled by the Thalmor. Something nobody wants, unless you're role playing as basically the nazis of Tamriel who want world domination and supremacy of the high elves above all other races. The only reason the Nordstrom of skyrim hate the empire is because they HAD to sign the white gold concordat, which was BECAUSE of the thalmor. WHY do you think the thalmor wanted to ban Talos worship? They wanted to weaken skyrim by causing a religious rebellion. So, join the empire, defeat the Thalmor so you can undo the white gold Concordat and allow Talos worship again. Unless you HONESTY believe that the stormcloaks can, not just hold off the Thalmor (they can starve out the province via controlling supply routes etc.) But actually DEFEAT the thalmor, and be okay with the power vacuum and ensuing chaos that would follow from removing BOTH current world powers, going stormcloak makes no sense. Just privately worship talos and do what you can to defeat the Thalmor if you are role-playing as a Nord, or care about the Nords' religious freedom.

[@Captain_Samerica]

@@Enaccul 1) the Redguards single-handedly held off the thalmor 2) what’s the point in trading one dictator for another? 3) “If I’m to choose between one evil and another, then I prefer not to choose at all.” I’m a libertarian irl and the concept of willingly sacrificing freedoms now in the hopes of a safer life later fundamentally contradicts my core values. We can argue all day about why that is but just know I have good reasons for that and you aren’t gonna change my mind, lol. More debatably, I’d say a “nord hero of old” archetype would very strongly agree with that sentiment and would without a second thought fight off the empire and be willing to die trying fighting off the thalmor.

[@metatronyt]

Paul Liu, thank you very much for you interesting and very respectful comment, you sound like a very educated and polite person :) You do have a very good point there when you say that the empire has betrayed the Septim dinasty and so it would make sence to fight them for that. My point is though that there as two possible approaches to this betrayal, 1) fight it from the outside, crushing the empire. 2) fight it from the inside, trying to correct the empire back in it's tracks. Also the concept of betrayal is debatable too in my humble opinion because they accepted the white gold treaty only because they basically lost the war, so they were forced into it, not accepting could have ment annihilation, so my point of view is that they accepted it waiting for a strong leader, in which case the Dragonborn joining them would make sense :D The great thing about this game is that both approaces "make sense"

[@dogsteeves1]

***** Really armour Storm Cloks are rebels and the Imperial are empire duh and look empire has been around longer so they will have better armour rebels are a small faction so they get what they can to were at armour. Look at empire and the rebels in starwars empire has these big ships and full body armour and rebels have light armour smaller ships and a no war factories.

[@The_Foxymew]

William Steeves Yet they're still completely useless, save for when the plot demands they be badass XP Talking Star wars here, of course.

[@dogsteeves1]

I know but still the empire or republic will always be stronger then a small rebellion

[@The_Foxymew]

Well, something to note is that the empire just lost a pretty big war against the elves, so their forces are all ready lessened. And yeah, the empire in Star wars was retardedly weak to me. Was annoying.

[@arsenicflask]

Metatron If I look at all the facts I feel bad about joining the stormcloaks mostly because of racism and Balgruuf

[@thefoolishchannel6712]

even if the Stormcloaks manage to take over Skyrim, they have basically just made an enemy of the entire continent

[@travisbaker7547]

Not entire continent .....there are still storm cloak jackasses galavanting around 💁

[@thefoolishchannel6712]

@@travisbaker7547 economically, the entire continent.

[@valleyofshava]

The Foolish Channel I’m sure them and hammer fell would pair up and fight the thalmor and the empire

[@Lolpy.]

Not entirely, Hammerfell was independent as well, they’d have no reason to hold a grudge against them. Hell, they could even form an alliance.

[@thefoolishchannel6712]

@Uncle Lucifer Zed I also chose stormcloaks the first time, because the empire tried to behead the dragonborn so the stormcloaks were an obvious choice. But then I started digging into Skyrim lore.

[@eduardoADSL]

"This was our land. We were here first. Then the Nords came and put chains on us. Forbid us from worshipping our gods." - Madanach about the Forsworn uprising, and the Jarl of Markath is allied to Ulfric. Then I joined the empire to fight that hypocrite.

[@HumanOfPrey]

Ulfric - The Empire wants to take over our land and this isn't right. Madanach - AWWWW really? Tell me more.

[@dereinepeterpan5637]

The Forsworn sacrafice humans, every sane person would forbid that. Talos on the other hand is no harm to anyone, still the empire tolerate nazi elves taking talos worshipper away to torture and execution.

[@HumanOfPrey]

Der Eine Peter Pan The Forsworn sacrifice humans, the Dark Elves and Orcs worship Daedric Princes and Wood Elves are cannibals. Why are you making all that fuss? If you want to join a faction that fights for religious freedom, you MUST respect the religion of the others.

[@eduardoADSL]

Der Eine Peter Pan As far i know they sacrifice only their warriors using hagravens to become briarhearts. They are not Aztec-like that sacrificed people all day to make the sun rise. (and i leave the suggestion for metatron analyse how efficient the aztec obsidian sword would be against a spanish soldier).

[@dereinepeterpan5637]

Eduardo Augusto The leading hagravens belong to them and they sacrifice animals, giants and humans (as far as I remember from the game). They may experimenting to turn these people into briarhearts though, but deffinetly against their wills (I don´t think a giant would join any faction)

[@nathanntfbananarama8577]

Ulfric isn't racist, that is untrue yet almost everyone believes it. There is a high elf who makes a good living in the city who doesn't get bullied by the nords, simply because she is carrying her own weight, same thing with a dark elf working on a farm. Ulfric has very limited resources with the war going on, and he spared plenty of room for the elves to live, and the elves won't help them in the war or outside of it. He's right to be angry about that, but he doesn't hate elves as a whole.

[@metatronyt]

+NathanNTF Bananarama I understand you point and thank you for the comment yet I must disagree because I clearly remember Ulfric saying all sorts of things to me as an elf while I was playing for him untill I got sick of it and left xD

[@vulpesinculta3238]

+NathanNTF Bananarama In the New Gnisis Cornerclub, you can even find an Imperial banner. Goes to show the allegiance of the Dark Elves in Windhelm.

[@kodaleciojo7873]

+Vulpes Inculta The Dark Elves are unhappy with Ulfric's rule and the first thing we see in Windhelm was a worthless drunkard bullying a dark elf who was explaining they want to stay out of the war because it isn't their battle. Think of it, the Dark Elves lead long lives, those dark elves in Windhelm could very well witness the destruction of Morrowind, completely sick and tired of fighting or running.

[@kodaleciojo7873]

+Metatron Personally I think Ulfric was in a wrong profession. Dude's got Oscar Award Winning acting skills. He should be in the acting profession and be a 10 times Oscar Award winner or whatever it is called in their world instead of a politician-general. It beats losing to the Aldmeri dominion, being tortured by them during the great world. It beats nearly getting beheaded by Tullius until Alduin came to wreck everything and nearly kill everyone. It beats sweating over 50% of the time where the player happens to be an Imperial supporter and ends up getting killed in the end of his struggles or become unofficial High King of Skyrim and have to deal with Thalmors who are simply too good for him to handle in scenario of Player helping him.

[@lordpeaches]

+Metatron Ulfric doesn't have any race-specific dialogue, though.

[@billkilsum2015]

Am I the only one who listened carefully to all the dialogue between Ulfric and Galmar and thought that Ulfric seemed to be a bit more thoughtful and caring about the war and the people involved, but seemed manipulated by Galmar to act quickly and aggressively against his own thoughts? Galmar just always seems to be more in his face yelling about what should happen and Ulfric seems a lot more reserved and almost bored of it sometimes. "If they're not with us, they're against us!" "They all know that..." You can almost hear a sigh in it like, "Galmar plx shut up."

[@blackfyre4578]

It's hard to join the stormcloaks when the game explicitly makes it clear they are just tools for the Thalmor.

[@YoutubeMadeMePickHandle]

BLACKFYRE it doesn’t make it clear. You’re referring to the mission where you sneak into the embassy. The book merely states that, yes, they essentially orchestrated the civil war, but that either side winning would be disastrous. So the question still stands “stormcloaks or imperials”, because either side winning decisively hurts the thalmor.

[@lordhelmchen3154]

@@KZbinMadeMePickHandle But a victorious Empire would be way worse for the Thalmor. They would be stronger, with skilled Nord soldiers and supplies from an additional province at their back when it comes to a second war between Thalmor and Empire. If Stormcloakes win the Empie loses all that and has another potential enemy at their back to create a war on multiple fronts. Thus the Thalmor could easily conquer the Empire and after that they would have an incredibly easy time defeating a single isolated province still weakened by civil war. So yes the Stormcloaks are clearly just puppets for the Thalmor. What they are saying in their documents is that they just don't want the civil war to end *too soon* to further weaken the victor.

[@piccoloatburgerking]

That is just asinine. The game makes it clear that Stormcloaks are tools of the Thalmor? Then what are the Imperials then? They openly sold themselves to the Dominion. Not only that, they're crippled badly as it is, they can't do shit to the Dominion with or without the Stormcloak's existence because they're driven by bureaucracies and not practicality. The Imperial City is rekt, many parts of Southern Cyrodiil have been burned and destroyed in the war and stayed that way with banditry and drugs on the loose and the Stormcloaks aren't there. Just because the dossier in the Thalmor embassy says that Ulfric's fighting will indirectly benefit them by the virtue of crippling the Empire further, doesn't mean they're their tools, because they're counting on the war prolonging. Once the Empire is out of the way, Stormcloaks, who aren't bought by the Thalmor can finally fight them with full force and the Dovahkiin's presence means they'll win.

[@septimus7524]

@@piccoloatburgerking The Stormcloaks are exactly that... Ulfric is an asset to the Thalmor.. And it's documented quite clearly. In the quest where you sneak into the Thalmor Embassy (looking for leads as to why the Dragons are returning) you will find an entire Dossier on Ulfric written by Elenwen. This Civil War was more than enough to keep the Empire occupied and weakened, while the Thalmor rebuilt their strength and prepared for the next war (which IS coming. It's not a matter of IF.. just WHEN). The Dossier saying Ulfric is an asset to the thalmor means EXACTLY THAT! They are tools! Useful assets to help the Thalmor, but they're too blinded by their own pride to see that! ELENWEN LITERALLY WENT TO HELGEN TO STOP TULLIUS FROM EXECUTING ULFRIC YOU BRAIN DEAD ANCHOVIE. THIS is a video showing unused Dialogue between Elenwen and Tullius at Helgen (This Dialogue would go to be unused in the final game before Tullius' dialogue could be recorded) kzbin.info/www/bejne/mYu5p6eep9WMpNE ...No. Sorry but that is just absurd. The EMPIRE were nearly defeated by the Thalmor.. TENS OF THOUSANDS OF LEGIONARIES were the back bone of the Empire, and were almost crushed.. You ACTUALLY believe Skyrim ALONE could defeat the fucking Thalmor? Even IF the Dovahkiin were to fight in that war? I'm not going to sugar coat it, that is absolutely retarded. There is NO WAY Skyrim can take on the THALMOR on their own. This entire civil war could've been so easily avoided. The Empire did ban Talos worship, no shit. But.. You forgot one crucial detail you can learn from Hadvar's uncle in Riverwood... THE EMPIRE DIDN'T FUCKIN' ENFORCE THE BAN... LITERALLY LETTING PEOPLE WORSHIP TALOS SO LONG AS THE THALMOR DIDN'T KNOW ABOUT IT... Ulfric should've just seen past the idiocy that blinds him, and see that the White-Gold Concordat would not last long. It will ONLY last until the next war begins (Which is already fast approaching) You Stormcloaks are no true Nords.. You dishonor and disgrace Talos by attempting to tear apart the Empire he worked so hard to build.

[@In.New.York.I.Milly.Rock.]

@@septimus7524 on one hand, I want to thank you for this write up, you got great points and helped me make a decision. On the other hand, you sound mad af loool Good comment bruh

[@lelouche25]

Okay so here's my problem with, the Stormcloacks Just because the Redguard were able to hold back the Thalmore what makes the Stormcloacks can? Skyrim doesn't have the resources or the manpower to fight off the Aldimeri Dominion the Thalmore win when the Empire infights.

[@Random-wo6xq]

The thalmor crushed the empire. What hope would Skyrim have on it's own

[@lelouche25]

Random 1 indeed that's the point I put forward Skyrim couldn't hold back a dominion invasion

[@Random-wo6xq]

Yuki Terumi indeed

[@LeviathanTamer31]

Seriously. The Redguard can hold off the Thalmor because their land is the 2nd deadliest place on Tamriel. One race of elves (The Chimer) literally called the place Deathland. Even when the Empire was forced to hand over land to the Thalmor, the Redguard were able to easily boot them right back off. The only reason there's any fighting right now is because they tricked the Khajiit into helping them.

[@lelouche25]

Kylee Smalley i know like i said just because the Redguard could kick out the Thalmor what makes skyrim think they can too?

[@jerome96114]

Another reason: While they are believing they'd fight for freedom, the Storm-cloaks actually DESTROY Skyrim/ the humans. If you read the information in the Thalmor embassy it is strongly indicated, that Ulric did not escape, but that the Thalmor intentionally set him free, so that he will create the rebellion and have the humans fight amongst themselves, so that the elves can more easily control them. (!)

[@SentientTrafficConeMan]

***** The Elves want the war to be a stalemate, so they can swoop in and kick everyone's ass. If the Stormcloaks win, though, Skyrim is once again a unified fighting force, ready to kick Elven ass.

[@HopetrashSpeed]

John Smith they are rebels not soldier they have less chance than the empire. the empire want to destroy the talmor but ulfric is ruining every effort.

[@SentientTrafficConeMan]

Not Important Hate to break it to you, but the difinition of a soldier is 'a person who serves in an army. '. The Stormcloaks are an army. If the Empire truly wanted to destroy the Thalmor, they would've done it already. Hell, I've already given an in-depth debate on the matter.

[@HopetrashSpeed]

John Smith maybe they are soldier but they aren't train as soldier they are just " i want my Talos back why don't we fight the talmor and the empire and cause everyone to die. Ulfric is the true king he believe in us, he don't use us you mean imperial :'((("

[@SentientTrafficConeMan]

Not Important You really don't comprehend the politics of Skyrim, do you? Look, you can find me all over this comment section debating with *intellectual* people, unlike yourself. Go read one of those.

[@terrorandstarvation]

I join the Stormcloaks because fuck Maven Black-Briar. I join the Imperials because Jarl Balgruff needs to keep ballin'. Nope, I think I'll just become High King of Skyrim.

[@Become-Eggplant]

Why be high king, when you can take the whole empire?

[@quadrillion92]

why not just take all tamriel?

[@altansirin5830]

Why not take all Nirn?

[@Become-Eggplant]

Altan Şirin To much trouble to go to Akavir or Atmora. And we all know that the elven homeland is going to suck.

[@Megablast668]

Why not take all of Mundus?

[@ovenwater4699]

I was with the stormcloaks until they exiled Jarl Balgruuf, he was one of my favourite characters

[@delphidelion]

In every game to this point we have been fighting hard to keep the Empire together. From saving the emperor himself from the first game to Martin's ascension, I dare to ask whay any loyalist is doing in bed with the stormcloaks.

[@jamesmccloud7535]

I know right my characters from the previous games will not accept this.

[@Thurnmourer]

Because this isn't that Empire? That Empire died following Chancellor Ocato's assassination.

[@car6697]

yeah well Skyrim is my first ever Elder Scrolls game i've ever played so unlike you pro-empire guys, i don't really have any "loyalty" or much love for the empire. but they DO remind me a LOT of the real life roman empire (which i'm pretty sure Bethesda intentionally designed them that way) which i happen to absolutely HATE in real life so the Elder Scroll's universe Cyrodiilic empire ALREADY has some disdain from me. that AND the FACT the empire ALMOST LITERALLY BEHEADS us in the very beginning of the game, made them (the imperial legion) along with their Nazi Elf masters, my ARCH ENEMIES😡

[@car6697]

@Sean Viklünd the Stormcloaks want to win the war to get back at the Aldmeri Dominion too? but they also want their province to be completely independent and free from imperial rule, which is the difference between them and the Empire, the Stormcloaks want complete freedom and independence for their home of Skyrim while the Empire wants the opposite of that. what's wrong with wanting to have FREEDOM and INDEPENDENCE in your province/nation???🤨 and how do you know that an independent Skyrim led by the Stormcloaks would be the only ones fighting the A.D? besides if they utilize their stealth and guerilla tactics, harsh terrain and weather (like the snowy blizzards from the mountains, the jagged rocky hills in the reach, and the thick, lush forests in Falkreath an the Rift), and even have the DRAGONBORN on their side, then their chances of victory against the Thalmor SKYROCKETS and is pretty much a guarantee. you know the Thalmor want to destroy ALL men races in Tamriel eventually, right? not just the Nords of Skyrim, but Hammerfell's Redguards, High Rock's Bretons, and Cyrodiil's Imperials. so to answer your question, BOTH *only if* Skyrim and Hammerfell can remain independent before, during, and after the next Great War against the Thalmor (that is, as long as most of the men races survive it hopefully) if they want to be, because the provinces of Tamriel should *not have to be* OWNED by Cyrodiil's Empire in order to temporarily join forces with them. provinces/nations can join forces or "unite" temporarily WITHOUT one of those certain large provinces/nations owning the rest of them, just like in real life during the World Wars: when America, France, UK, and Russia temporarily joined forces as the Allies to stop the Axis: Germany, Italy (the real life Nazis). ALL the Allied nations/countries were INDEPENDENT, NONE were owned or "united" (if you wanna sugarcoat it that way), under the USA or UK for example. but they were COMPLETELY independent and they STAYED that way before and after WW2 was over, rightfully so. and can you *prove* the Stormcloaks are "just as racist"? because that honestly to me, sounds like the same rehashed imperial propaganda i've heard many pro-Empire people use. if you're referring to the scene of those 2 Nord guys harassing the Dunmer woman the very first time you walk into Windhelm, those are Windhelm CIVILIANS, NOT Stormcloak SOLDIERS, so they don't represent the Stormcloaks. but i'll humor you, even if they were somewhat racist, you need to remember that this takes place in a MEDIEVAL fantasy era, so most of the races in TES universe (just like the real life medieval era) aren't as enlightened or as tolerant as we are today. The Dunmer were massive racists to Argonians and Khajiits in Morrowind, some Imperials were racists in Oblivion (there's a post about it on Reddit if you don't believe me) and even to a small degree here in Skyrim because while yeah the Stormcloak cities don't let the Khajiit CARAVANS in their cities, NEITHER do the Empire sided cities either (like Whiterun, Markarth, and Solitude especially) so the Imperials would at least be EQUALLY guilty of PARTIAL racism to the Khajiit caravan people too. and some of the Orcs in Skyrim are racist to you if you're not an Orc or at least not bloodkin to them at their strongholds. just about every race in the Elder Scrolls universe is racist at least to some degree, even the Imperials. of course i DON'T like racism, i hate it, always have and always will, but to me honestly, the Stormcloaks are just more *proud* and *prideful* about their race, customs, and beliefs, like die hard patriots. and of course about claiming Skyrim as their home. when they say that phrase, "Skyrim belongs to the Nords", that's exactly what they mean by it, that Skyrim is their HOME and no one is gonna take it, or any of their laws or beliefs away from them while they're still breathing. they never said "Skyrim is ONLY for the Nords" or something clearly terribly racist like that, if they did, then even i as a pro-Stormcloak would have major trouble supporting them then. just like Morrowind is home to the Dunmer, Cyrodiil is home to the Imperials, Black Marsh is home to the Argonians, Elsweyr is home to the Khajiit, and so on. but anyways, if the Stormcloaks are really so "racist" according to you, then why would they even LET a Redguard woman, Breton court wizard, and a Dunmer priest live, work, and help their people in Dawnstar? a Dunmer and Altmer in Winterhold (on top of Winterhold's VERY diverse mage college), take in just about HALF of their citizens in Windhelm being Argonian and Dunmer REFUGEES (plus a few Altmers and a couple of Imperials there too), an Orc and an Imperial miner (or maybe he's a Breton, i'm sorry lol they kinda look alike) living in Shor's Stone, a Dunmer and Argonian miner living among mostly Nords in Darkwater Crossing, and of course quite a few Argonians, Dunmer, and even a couple of Wood Elves serving as the COURT WIZARD and the other as the Jarl's STEWARD in Riften! heck, and if you help the Stormcloaks take Morthal back, an ARGONIAN becomes HOUSECARL to the new Stormcloak Jarl! yeah the Stormcloaks are "so racist" that they give these mighty fine jobs working right by the JARL'S side as Housecarl, Steward, and Court Wizard to OTHER races, eh?

[@car6697]

@Sean Viklünd and i have a question for you, not having to do with any of Tamriel's provinces being at war with each other, but just in general, philosophically speaking, with how they live and rule: would you rather support freedom and independence or imperialism and oppression? 🤔

[@jacksonlee4943]

When the first humans settled Tamriel, they came from the northern ice continent of atmora. These people settled Cyrodiil, Skyrim, and highrock. Cyrodiil is commonly where empires are forged, and they are often the most powerful. The notes call imperials milk drinkers and cowards who have no right to Skyrim. But, they both came from atmora, and are brethren, and Both have a right to Skyrim. If Skyrim leaves the empire, high rock will be next, then the thalmor will easily conquer Tamriel. Just like when you infaltrate the thalmor embassy, they say they want to keep the war going to weaken both sides, sort of a divide and conquer trick. Skyrim can’t stand against against the thalmor alone, for they fought for the empire in the Great War, yet the empire still lost. So this shows that not even the mighty nords can’t withstand an elven onslaught. So, the white gold concordant is better then being slaughter by the altmer. Besides, the empire obviously hates the thalmor, and wants to through them off their back. So be patient, and wait for cyrodiil’s signal to break free from them. And you will stand together against the thalmor. Most likely, will there provinces will want to fight back alongside the empire, and the empire will again have a great chance to win a war. ALL HAIL THE EMPIRE!!!

[@pfft5795]

WE ARE THE SONS OF SKYRIM!!! STORMCLOAKS FOREVER!

[@jackriggins7401]

Stormcloaks for life

[@thelastofdeers]

StromCloak is love, StormCloak is life

[@jackriggins7401]

+LAW TheLastDeerAlive that is true and we are the true sons of skyrim

[@pfft5795]

***** Dead.

[@HumanOfPrey]

+Stormcloak Yeah, all hail Ulfric, the true High King of Skyrim. The same said "True High King of Skyrim" who foolishly walked into an Imperial ambush and surrendered meekly to the Imperials instead of fighting in “victory or Sovngarde” style.

[@Kevin3dp]

I first sided with the Stormcloaks but then something happened which made me do a U turn. It was something Jarl Balgruud said in his throne room after you defeat him: "We Nords ARE the empire. Our blood built it. Our blood sustains it." Considering the history of the empire that made me realise that I was fighting on the wrong side.

[@olvustin6671]

Nord blood indeed made the empire, but it grew to be an outside entity. They put it's existence above the nords, bowing before the elves allowing their inquisitors to drag nords out of their homes and execute for worshipping Talos. In the lands of the Empire, in Skyrim, in the birthplace of Talos.

[@BAEHELPJAYDO]

​@@olvustin6671The Empire was forced to do that. Plus they made it known the Empire only plans to temporarily listen to the Thalmor and are building up their strength to battle the thalmor again. But the stormcloaks are so stupid they'd rather ruin their chances of winning the war rather than take a temporary loss

[@olvustin6671]

@@BAEHELPJAYDO Look around my fellow kinsman!The thalmor officials are everywhere, dragging people out of their homes and executing them for worshipping the founder of the Empire. Meanwhile Empire is not just allowing this to happen but prosecute those who try to stop this madness. They betrayed the people of skyrim, abandoned Hammerfell, for what? So they could continue to survive, at the cost of what they once stood for! Empire has become a machine, a cancer, it's only concern is to keep existing. It stopped caring about the people living inside a long time ago! The Empire was built not only by clever tactics and diplomacy but heroism shown in front of the incredible odds and determination. We need a leader who won't fold under the threat of Thalmor, we need a leader who will stand up for the people of skyrim. Just like talos we will make through these dark times! Btw Ulfric didn't do anything that goes against the traditions of the Empire, he beat the emperor in a fair duel, so he is in fact the rightful ruler. (Also Stormcloaks are only fighting one legion at the start of the game and the rest is defending the border, so if stormcloaks defeat this legion they might keep controlling rest of the legions. But biggest pluss to stormcloaks is that this is a fantasy game and they are the underdogs, they have a good chance of winning according to rule of cool)

[@brothers_of_nod]

@@BAEHELPJAYDO And what then do you suggest they do hm? Sit idly by while Thalmor are allowed to go about and spirit away people in the middle of the night? Skyrim must put her own people first, and right now her people are being harmed by the Thalmor under the permission of the Empire. "An Empire too weak too rule them, yet brands them criminals for wanting to rule themselves." They don't need the empire to win, Hammerfell didn't, neither does Skyrim.

[@BAEHELPJAYDO]

@@brothers_of_nod Yes they VERY much NEED the Empire to win. Hammerfell is not the same thing as Skyrim. People need to stop making that comparison. And Hammerfell didn't win. They battled to a stalemate, after they both called cease fire. And the Empire aren't sitting idly by. They are literally regrouping to finally end the Thalmor😂. Ulfric and his stormcloaks are just making it harder for the Empire to win. The Thalmor themselves see how stupid Ukfric is and actually want him to win so that it weakens the Empire.......the Thalmor purposely try to prolong the civil war by supplying the Stormcloaks and breaking out Ulfric from captivity. All the smart characters in the game all realise the Empire is grouping up to beat the Thalmor.

[@00snelly]

I think that the Empire and The Stormcloaks should rise up together against the Thalmor. Maybe in TES6?

[@mariagraziaronci8451]

it's said that in TES6 the redguards will have to prevent and repel the...comeback...of the thalmor to hammerfell...

[@darkner2390]

@@mariagraziaronci8451 That's a good thing, I'd be more than happy to send more Thalmor bastards to the soul cairn.

[@TheProjectVoid]

Id be happy if es6 takes place right after or during es5 not another era long difference.

[@wolves600]

seeing as the stormcloaks were framed for the assassination of the Emperor I don't know how well that would go

[@winstein3689]

@@darkner2390 lmao you do that too! I always should trap the Patrol.

[@raymondraptorclaw2901]

My fellow imperial fighters, I say we not only fight the rebels, but also take up arms against the Thalmor! They caused the trouble from the start!

[@returningfire2037]

So they can surrender again? Thats how this shit started. This imperials begged for mercy.

[@RallenUzumaki1]

Three words of rebuttle. Fus Roh Dah!!!!

[@HumanOfPrey]

jason phillips And Ulfric didn't surrender in the beginning of the game...

[@jakemarsh8967]

Of course brother

[@jakemarsh8967]

jason phillips no matter the disadvantages there are advantages, if the Empire were to revolt there would be many other rebellions, mainly dunmer, and we're smarter then that we would get the Sea elves to help cus they would be all over that

[@Supergrunt8]

I really don't see whats the appeal of the stromcloaks. "B-but mighty Talos was banned!" The empire never wanted to ban the worship of Talos Any sane general would've opted for a compromise after the bloody battle that was the Red Ring. Both the Empire had pretty much exhausted it's resources, and moral was probably at a low. "b-but muh nordic way of life!" From what I saw in skyrim ever after hundreds of years of Imperial alligence the nords have pretty much lived the way they've always had. Probably with improved living standards. If you look at the big picture the Empire is the only way to go -Founded by man turned god who single handedly united all of Tamriel -The Legion, the most deciplined fighting force in all of Tamriel -The only real chance of defeating the Thalmor -A centralized goverment and a military that has fought off daedric incursions. Lets see you stormcloaks fight off another akaviri invasion Veni, vidi, vici

[@7thchamp658]

Although i agree with you on supporting the Empire, i must correct you. Talos didn't "single-handedly" conquer Tamriel. He did that with two other demigods and a enormous automaton. The most disciplinated fighters are the Redguard.

[@Supergrunt8]

Champion of Cyrodiil From what I understand all the Tribunal did was provide Tiber Septim with the Numidium, they never actually helped him in his conquest(s). Not in a direct manner anyways. And I use the term single handedly very loosly. From a practical stand point If it weren't for his leardership and tactical prowess the Empire would've never united the continent.

[@7thchamp658]

LibertyPrime I was talking about Wulfharth and Zurin, the two Shezarrines who gave their heart to power Numidium. Other than that you're on point.

[@caydenblackwell2176]

Urn, Talos was a Nord and he ruled over the Empire before the time of its corruption, when the Thalmor took over. And of course that's the reason the Empire doesn't accept Talos as a God is because the Thalmor believe in their own crap.

[@7thchamp658]

cayden blackwell Fuck no. Why would you even believe Talos was a Nord? Do you even lore? Plus what corruption? The one they make you believe to weaken the Empire?

[@MrOgge50]

There are pros and cons of both but I must personally say that I’m an imperial.

[@MrOgge50]

@guyinfedora I think Skyrim has bigger problems than that

[@Tracer_Krieg]

Pretty much which ever side you choose, you're going to end up fight the Aldamiri regardless. The difference is that it'll be either an entire Empire or just a single kingdom doing the fighting.

[@khaos5085]

The Empire died. The Imperials betrayed their oath to the Empire and let it die. The Imperials are only slaves to the Elves Oppressors.

[@generictoasterstroodle1080]

Chaos Primordial They are trying to build up and fight again. The Stormcloaks wouldn’t be any better off. They did what they needed to survive.

[@elegiacfey7016]

"Political Analysis" *talls about nothing but personal preferences Lol k

[@丹尼尔-l2p]

yeah right

[@Valencetheshireman927]

There was political analysis. I’m not sure how you missed it 🤷‍♂️.

[@jamesmccloud7535]

Ur just salty he chose the empire 🤷‍♂️

[@Armadillo909]

Hail Ulfric, king in the north!

[@ElwynTheElf]

+DragonSlayer673 Skyrim belongs to the nords!

[@Armadillo909]

ElwynTheElf To hear that from a Elf is weird xD

[@ElwynTheElf]

Ike Wasweissich yea... Still a stormcloak.

[@frankg2790]

+Ike Wasweissich THE KING IN THE NORTH! THE KING IN THE NORTH!

[@jamesmurphy173]

+Ike Wasweissich FOR THE EMPIRE!!

[@solidsnake4214]

I never really thought it made sense to side with the Empire. I mean they do try to kill you without giving you a fair trial in the beginning. Realistically speaking it makes sense for the Dragonborn to want revenge on the Empire and join the Stormcloaks to get this revenge.

[@Alfred5555]

Yeah, it's the obvious direction the plot was going.

[@Ramdingle007]

@@Alfred5555I always play as an Altmer as I love mage build and then side with the storm cloaks to help weaken the Empire. To ensure a prolonged war between the two, I help the Stormcloaks to take Whiterun and then stop helping in any way in the war. This means both sides have around half the territories, you can buy Hjerim in Windhelm and be friendly with both sides (playing them off against whenever you can)

[@IronBlue1012]

This probably shouldn't be called a "political analysis" when you're allowing your personal views / opinions to influence the verdict. Also, armor and hairstyles aren't part of a political analysis. I'm not trying to challenge your opinion or anything- I was just expecting a more in-depth political analysis than an opinions video.

[@karentinsley8576]

IronBlueDog he can call it that because that's his analysis of the politics, he didn't claim it would be a fair one

[@yellowmaskdude553]

Fucking hell, look at the dislikes on this video. I don't understand how people can genuinely get mad about video game politics. I don't even want to know how they react to real life politics. It's insane. Also, I support the stormcloaks. *get triggered imperials*

[@iliketrains263]

Yellow Mask Dude are you implying a dislike is considered anger? some people just didn't like his vpice, the quality of video, the subject, pr the fact it's 20 mins of droning woth no real info. it's like a post 911 George Bush speech. you can dislike a video without being angry or a hater you know

[@yellowmaskdude553]

Good point.

[@potheadkennewick]

Yellow Mask Dude probably because every video about this is never about stormcloaks but always imperials

[@viysnjor4811]

I don't support metatron's choices in this video either but i still liked his video because at the end of the day, these are simply his opinions (we all have one) and he actually took the time to make an argument to defend his choice, so I respect that.

[@Kudosute]

Most stories aren't imagined from scratch, but rewritten. And with this one, quite well. Just like The Lord of the Rings was inspired by Catholicism and the Elder Scrolls was inspired by Norse Legend. You saying that is the same thing as calling dudes who argue about football insane. It's a lifestyle. It may not be my lifestyle, it may not be yours. But it's a lifestyle.

[@Maedelrosen]

skyrim is ancient nordic land with proof being the barrows and burial grounds, with tye nords themselves being descendents. the land is coldand mountainous, nords even have 50 percent resistance to freezing. skyrim belongs to the nords.

[@Maedelrosen]

the****

[@sammykablammy4565]

The USA is made up of 70% white people spanning back several centuries. The USA belongs to the white people.

[@carnsolus]

skyrim belongs to the nords because the snow elves were too weak to stop them from taking it if the nords are too weak to defeat the empire or the thalmor, skyrim doesn't belong to the nords

[@poundtowner1992]

“I like the open mindedness of the Empire.” Bans a religion*

[@dutchpatriot17]

It's their own religion, and it's only banned out of necessity, not out of free will.

[@yochaiwyss3843]

Because the Knife Ears forced them and even after that they didn't spare a single officer to enfore that law. Shit went down once Ulfric went around screaming his lungs out and attracted the attention of the Knife Ears which made the whole thing to be a violation made by the empire as a whole and thus a Casus Belli which the Imperials do their damnest to deny because they are unable to fight another war. Ulfric is the reason for his own oppression.

[@rurushu8094]

William Pounder damn faithless imperials

[@Valencetheshireman927]

The ban on Talos worship isn’t supposed to be permanent. The Stormcloaks just blew the entire thing out of proportion .

[@jamesmccloud7535]

@@Valencetheshireman927 When the day comes that they go to war is the day everything about the white-gold concordat will be thrown out the window.

[@chunchunmaru123]

why can't I have a fuck both factions option. and just take skyrim for myself with a army of dragon's.

[@lucasistrom]

I hate it when people say this. You aren't cool.

[@italianwaffle5592]

Lucas Strom well somewhere in there is a good point, you as the dovahkiin have as much right to the throne of skyrim then ulfric or torygg.

[@secutorprimus]

Khajiit wishes for a choice of peace, and to turn on the Aldmeri Dominion. This one sees that the elves are the true enemy of Imperial, Nord, and Khajiit alike.

[@joer.6548]

I think that WAS a cut option, but it could very well be false

[@shmee123ful]

Stand for neather your the dragon born kick both thier asses and make your own army and take over Tamrel

[@metatronyt]

+alaster boneman That would be a cool option ^^

[@shmee123ful]

and whould make sence I mean you can boss odahviing around and you tanked the vampier lord harkin and the dragon born Mirack and made you champion of Hermaeus Mora an it anit bad to be backed by a Daedric Prince

[@metatronyt]

alaster boneman Ye sometimes it's strange, I mean both Tullius and Ulfric consider you a subordinate but you are the freaking dragon born, your theory would make much more sense

[@shmee123ful]

well being a subordinate in of it self isn't to strange as Talos was a subordinate for some other dude before that dude got himself murdered and Talo became the big boss

[@vulpesinculta3238]

+alaster boneman There's a mod called Become High King of Skyrim. Pretty good.

[@JayneCobb88]

Long time viewer and stumbled across this video of yours I had never seen. Interesting to hear your older English accent have more cockney

[@jannegrey]

It is sort of weird. In previous games, I was always against empire - or rather with factions who have problems with empire, or even better - problems with both sides. In Morrowind for example I was a battle mage, so I was in both Wizards and Warriors Guilds. I did some jobs for the Imperial intelligence, but frankly I was always mostly proud of being associated with Twin-Lamps.

[@Bopperann]

So, why'd you join the Imperials? *"THE FASHION, FOOL!"*

[@mobslayer211]

WindyEBowerstone damn faithless imperials

[@elijahshaiza]

The stormcloaks look way cooler though...

[@patriot9487]

No, they don't! The name is cooler, the armor is just blue guard armor.

[@Ninehuskies]

How do they look cooler? It's literally a retextured guard armor. Alteast the imperials have unique models.

[@LordMelusar]

Honestly any time I see this debate, especially when playing the game, it makes me want to choose and carve out a third path for my character as I have been able to see what is wrong with both factions on such a major level. I sympathize with the Srormcloaks, but I view Ulfric as a largely incompetent leader who is unwitingly AIDING his primary enemy. The Empire is actively aiding and tolerating torture, murder, and is engaging in many highly unethical actions. My main issues with Skyrim is that you really don't get the chance to adress most of these glaringly CRITICAL issues to the stability and future of the Empire and humanity as a whole. The story of Skrim is basically about the Dragonborn unwittingly getting sucked into this political BS and not being allowed to do many meaningful things to adress the actual heart of many of the issues, all the while trying to learn and grow stronger to eventually save the world by killing Alduin. As the Dragonborn in Skyrim you are basically forced to only wade waist deep into the issues that aren't "Kill Alduin", you aren't given any means or any real chances to adress the issues either side has. When you pick a side, you pick that side and you must accept all it encompasses and you have little to no options to make meaningful ethical and political changes to your faction. Essentially, you have similar potential and powers (possibly greater in this area) as Tiber Septim, founder of the Septim Empire, Conqueror of Tamriel, a Dragonborn, and eventually a God (this is not up to debate, even the Gods refer to themselves as The Nine indicating that he almost certainly is a God or that there is an as yet unnamed 9th diety), yet you have no where near the level of effect on the world outside of saving it from being destroyed by Alduin. I guess this is just me ranting about my inability to do what I want in the game world. When I choose a faction I love being able to improve it or effect it in meaningful ways, ways that change how groups of people interact, changing how a faction approaches an issue. If I don't see any sort of meaningful effect from my actions on the people that my character works with, then I end up feeling like my character's choices end up being rather moot. Note: I do know about the "truce" option that is the Season Unending quest, but I don't count that as a true third path as it technically only "pauses" the Civil War and does properly resolve any of the issues within the factions.

[@kevinsullivan3448]

It would be cool to be the next Dragonborn Emperor...

[@brandonabella697]

man, such a long and great comment with........10 LIKES?????!!!!!!!

[@shawnboskofsky]

Eleven now, I still can't really choose a side because of what he just stated. I feel like the politics of this game are more interesting now that I'm not the only one running through this great game again just for being overly hyped for ES VI being teased at E3.

[@jpmisterioman]

Nah, violence will always exist. Trying to talk about "ethics" in a war(started by the stormcloaks) is naive at best.

[@PogoMeraki]

BigHouse You realize how fallacious that method of argument is, yeah? You give no actual backing for any of the points you make.

[@d.mat.zero6525]

White Gold Concordat more like the brown gold Concordat BC I wipe my A** with it.

[@BoJangles42]

Oy! I’ll take your head for that!

[@brodybrown6921]

D. Mat.Zero6 I completely agree

[@eagleye2893]

Agreed. Off with Medes head! Oh wait you actually did that already? *And* you killed the guy who ordered his head? Ok ok. Hey! What do you think you- *Splat* *Eagleye 28 has died.*

[@iamkeithheart]

Ulfric is apparently a Thalmor plant used as a puppet to stir up trouble in Skyrim. The game makes it, in the beginning, very damning for the Imperials case when you are about to be executed, but as the world opens up and you learn more nuances about the dilemma of the war, you start to understand that the Empire may just be the best hope there is for Skyrim and its people.

[@noneyabizz5306]

That is your conclusion but that is in no way how everyone feels. I certainly never saw it that way. I didn't care for either side but in the end, if I had to choose a side, I chose the Stormcloaks. And judging by most of the comments here, so did the majority of people who played Skyrim. Skyrim doesn't need the Empire. If Hammerfell was able to go on without the Empire and fight the Dominion alone to a standstill, when they're much closer to the Dominion, have the same weather conditions and without a Dragonborn, then rest assured, so can a Skyrim united under the Stormcloaks led by Ulfric and a Dragonborn. And Ulfric isn't a Thalmor plant. He hates the Thalmor as much as anyone.

[@khanch.6807]

​@@noneyabizz5306 Feelings don't aligns with Facts. Thalmore wanted Ulfric to escape. There are Letters in the Thalmore embassy explaining this. Thalmore were even on the execution to take Ulfric and "accidentally" loose him in order to extend the conflict. Skyrim alone is unable to fight with Thalmore. Just watch a Thalmore glass armor hit squad fight with Stormcloak patrol and see which one wins. Even Forsworn does more damage than the Stormcloaks with their magic and bone blades.

[@GoldenRedder]

The thalmor do not want Ulfric to win. They consider that a worst case scenario.

[@Ascension7707]

@@noneyabizz5306There are in game letters confirming and yes Ulfric was a plant and yes you can be a plant without even realizing you’re one at all.

[@fenrirvik372]

The stormcloaks is the right side for viking spirits, people from scandinavia

[@kevinsullivan3448]

As a man of Danish decent I disagree.

[@arghunqon3774]

Fenrirvik Vikings invaded raided other countries. They are the opposite of the Stormcloacks

[@briansheehan3430]

Whereas the Empire is perfect for Romans.

[@arghunqon3774]

Brian Sheehan The only difference between Vikings and Romans is that Vikings were more barbaric and stupid.

[@briansheehan3430]

Yes... Meaning that the Romans were more intelligent, disciplined, and organized as a single cohesive unit.

[@instinct922]

This is the worst video on the subject. You say in the title it is a POLITICAL ANALYSIS but 90% of the video is arguing about hair, looks and how pretty the streets are. Only argument here is 'das raycis'. Seriously? He keeps Argonians and Dunmer segregated is because they are in war and they REFUSE to help. They may decide to like Empire or Thalmor more, and just backstab. Better to be safe. IF he was really racist, he would have put them to the sword like Reachmen.

[@jonathanturner3269]

didn't he do that in markarth

[@joevenables3393]

Instinct "he would put them to the sword"? What? I'm sorry, but I doubt even Donald Trump would cause mass killing of non Americans.

[@kadolflannister5439]

Instinct

[@instinct922]

Creeper guy44 Donald isn't Hitler. Holy shit m8 you leftists are so hateful.

[@instinct922]

Jonathan Turner That's what I'm saying. He doesn't hate Dunmer. He probably grew up with them. But he needs to keep them segregated because they won't help with the war. It is an issue with trust, not race. And Argonians are out because they killed a lot of Dunmer recenly and racial tensions are high between them. It is bad to have street gang warfare when your soldiers are not even there.

[@Jonas_æ]

You just talked about personal preferences in the game. "I like this city. I like this armor. I like warriors with long hair, but I guess Tullius is ok." How is this a political analysis? You addressed little to no points of political value. No arguments for or against either side other than "I think they're racist" or "I feel nostalgic from Oblivion". Not saying you're wrong in making choices based on that, it's perfectly fine. But don't call this a political analysis.

[@residentevil2928]

Especially seeing as StormCloaks are the superior choice.

[@agsilverradio2225]

I would base my opinion on 2 questions. 1: How benevolent or tyranical is the empire, given the context of the situation. 2: Do the Stormcloaks want to destroy the empire, or declare independance from it. If the stormclocks want to destroy the empire, the stormcloacks would be in the wrong. If they just want indipendance, and they are okay with the empire still exsisting, just not on their land, then the Stormclocks are probly right. 3: Chousing based on who gives you cooler stuff is a corrupt reason to chouse a side.

[@SCComega]

Ultimately, it's important to look at the bigger picture. The Empire is clearly stated as not liking the current state of affairs, and doesn't want to outlaw talos worship. It's telling that the law was not enforced whatsoever before the stormcloak rebellion, an even now the empire only arrest those guilty of such, despite the Thalmor demanding executions. Beyond which, the Empire is clearly stated as attempting to rebuild it's forces, and they expect a second war with the Dominion soon, which is why they want an end to the rebellion. Documents which can be found in game also show that the Dominion are directly funding the Stormcloaks in order to perpetuate the civil war and weaken the empire, as they too intend to have a second war, but want to grind down the empire before they do so. Even from a character perspective, within the known context, you're looking at the difference between a known variable, and Ulfric who is known for a series of betrayals, and even minor amounts of digging, especially with his relatives who favor his empire, you quickly come to realize that he is purely in it for himself. Furthermore, if the civil war situation isn't resolved in the next couple of years, from the start in skyrim, the empire is amassing reserve troops south of the border for General Tulius to make use of if need be - quite simply, the Stormcloaks /can't/ win a war in the long term if the Empire is forced to be serious, their troops in Skyrim are by majority local volunteers. So by all means, both ethically and practically, it's better to side with the empire the moment you start considering things beyond the immediate situation and stop taking characters at face value, and actually seek out the truth about the matter.

[@Lolpy.]

Based on your view: The Empire is pretty straight down the middle in benevolence or tyranny. The Stormcloaks only want independence. So you seem like a Stormcloak.

[@KyonKnight]

You have very valid points. As a khajiit I found the Stormcliaks self centered where as the Imperial Empire is unity.

[@joelong9352]

The Khajit are not allowed in any city not even Solitude

[@KyonKnight]

+Joe Long Neither Stormcloaks nor Imperial cities allow khajiit caravans from entering their cities. But, its not a rule that khajiits cant enter a city. Keep in mind there are very few khajiits in skyrim that arent working with the trade caravan. There is a khajiit in Riften, I dont recall the name. Also if you have a wedding there will be a khajiit or two in the temple during the ceremony.

[@miasmata9043]

Whoever's present during your ceremony in the temple of mara are simply friends you've made. Remember NPC suddenly saying shit like 'You've been a good friend to me'? Those are the ones. They're also the ones that leave you heritage when they die. And it's also really dumb. Idolaf battleborn is going to call you a friend after you answer 'Greymanes or battleborn?' in his favor.

[@hagamapama]

+Joe Long the Khajit have earned their segregation the hard way, by demonstrating over and over again that their priorities don't mesh with the current civilization. The fact that the Khajit are usually found in league with theives, receiving stolen goods, or stealing themselves -- this is not a racism issue, this is a "the Khajit as a culture have a problem recognizing ordinary property rules" issue. On the other hand -- there is no reason not to let Argonians into your city. They're also known for a tendency towards freebootery, but they're usually much better organized and more civilized than the Khajit, and they usually don't so much fail to understand ordinary civilized rules, rather they simply don't agree with them. Plenty of Argonians, either individually or in groups, interact just fine with other civilized races, much better so than the Khajit. An interesting example here is Riften, where there are plenty of Argonians and, if memory serves, exactly zero of them in the Thieves' Guild. So the segregation of the Khajit outside the wall of every city in Skyrim, has far more basis in pragmatism than Ulfric's revulsion against the Argonians ever did.

[@acendantoverlord5737]

How can you say their is unity in the Empire when The High elves broke off and became their biggest threat while both Morrowind and Hammerfell broke off from the Empire and currently theirs a civil war ummmmm YAH unity whooooo!!!

[@teddybeddy123]

We know that the races of men can recover more quickly than the Aldmeri Dominion, even though the Empire lost territory and sustained a lot of damage. The Empire just needs some time to recover- to bring Hammerfell back into the Empire; convince Morrowind to return with its previous semi-autonomy with the incentive of taking revenge on the Argonians. Remember, the world of Elder Scrolls is not one of democracy and alliances- it is one of emperors, kings and conquest. Bethesda have actually perfectly set the stage for a future hero of prophecy- perhaps a reborn Tiber Septim, to rebuild the Empire and face the Aldmeri Dominion in the inevitable Second Great War.

[@masterking7401]

teddybeddy123 Empire might have the numbers,, but elves have more knowledge and experience. Because they live longer so they have more time to master their spells, swords, archery and smithing.

[@catinabox2878]

I really don't like Ulfric Stormcloak. Not only is he racist, but he should never have killed the High King. Torygg was a young man inexperianced in combat. Ulfric knew this and challenged Torygg knowing he would defeat him easily. Torygg knew that fighting Ulfric was a death sentance. But he had no choice, as refusing to fight would look cowardly and he would lose the respect and confidence of his subjects. Again, Ulfric knew this. Ulfric claimed it was the Nord way to challenge him, but in reality it was murder disguised as tradition. Ulfric does not trust anyone that isn't a nord. He is also a hypocrite. If you join the Stormcloaks, he sends his axe to Balgruff. (To bury the hatchet?). But if you join the Empire, Balgruff sends his axe to Ulfric who outright refuses it. (Yes, iI know that the same can be said about Balgruff refusing the axe). It was also crap of Ulfric to 'shout' at Torygg. I used to support the Stormcloaks, but the more I play Skyrim the more I realised that I was supporting the wrong side. The Thalmor banned Talos worship, but by joining the Empire, you are showing your loyalty to Talos even more, as Talos founded the Empire. In effect, Talos's army. The Thalmore don't even see that which makes it all the more ironic.

[@catinabox2878]

But I have noticed that some Imperial guards on patrol can be dicks. "Move along citizen, your interfering......". - When all I was doing was just walking past. The Thalmor are the same.

[@kambor1578]

+Roger Haywood Ulfric didn't name the stormcloak army. The empire started calling the rebels "Stormcloaks" as a joke, and the rebel soldiers embraced the name to honor Ulfric

[@catinabox2878]

Jan-Magnus Solheim I stand corrected.

[@nathangordon4891]

How was it murder? It was the point. Toryyg would've refused and proved that he was weak to his subjects

[@catinabox2878]

Nathan Gordon Because he was incapable of defending himself against Ulfric. Ulfric knew this and even admitted that he was sending a message to the other jarls by doing it.

[@ROMULUS8384]

Ulfric is not racist against the dark elf's he just doesn't have the time to deal with the problem he is fighting a war for not just for Skyrim but for All of humanity after all.

[@bunnitomoe3866]

He is infact racist will all races except the nord, there one guy in Windhelm that said something like "If a nord village is being attack, Ulfric will send his soldiers immedietly, but when it's a dark elfs or the khajits, nothing. No investigation, no soldiers, nothing".

[@ROMULUS8384]

@@bunnitomoe3866 he is a Nord king 👑 hes people comes first

[@ROMULUS8384]

@@bunnitomoe3866 and the kahjiit are not trust Worthy since they come from the Dominion

[@bunnitomoe3866]

@@ROMULUS8384 Even if he's the nord king, he should treat everyone equally as he treat the nords. Second, don't lump all the khajits mate, not all of them are un trustworthy and they've been trick into supporting the Thalmor since they claim that they're the one who brought back the moons

[@ROMULUS8384]

@@bunnitomoe3866 you don't give help to foreigners over your own people it is your duty to protect your people and the sovereignty of your nation and State. And the kahjiit are almost always untrustworthy even that one that went to the college was a thief despite being a educated mage next you don't let in your enemies allies into your Homeland especially in a war especially for the Nords who's War with the Dominion has never ended and are now facing extinction by the High Elves who they themselves confess to the conspiracy

[@robertpatter5509]

If only the Imperials and Stormcloaks joined forces to expell the Thalmor. You could even call the mission "Banished from the Empire"

[@deutchecheems7678]

This is called empire...

[@NarlepoaxIII]

Just so you know, the decision to execute all the prisoners in Helgen was made by General Tulius. The Imperial Captain was following orders just as much as Hadvar was.

[@HumanOfPrey]

You should note, even if you tell Tullius you were in Helgen to be beheaded, he STILL lets you join the Legion. So obviously it wasn't even his concern, it was the ONE captain who refused to listen to a lower-ranked soldier saying the protagonist wasn't on the list.

[@NarlepoaxIII]

HumanOfPrey That doesn't follow.

[@HumanOfPrey]

***** Which part of "even if you tell Tullius you were in Helgen to be beheaded, he STILL lets you join the Legion" you didn't understand?

[@NarlepoaxIII]

HumanOfPrey I got that part, what I didn't get was the "Therefore, it obviously wasn't the _Military Governor of Skyrim_ that ordered your execution, but rather his subordinate who undermined him and took charge of the incredibly sensitive situation and he was totally fine with that."

[@bencar0214]

General Tullius says to you that your execution was a terrible misunderstanding. To be honest, he was more concerned about Ulfric since he said "Let's get this over with" It was the captain who decided your fate.

[@charleswolf1066]

I play as an Imperial. Ive attacked Thalmor agents everytime I see them an have even attacked their Embassy. Once Ulfric is dead an a new Jarl takes over, he promises to give the Dunmer an Argonians better living conditions. To me joining the Stromcloaks is a betrayal to Jarl Balgruuf who have given advice an his friendship.

[@heatherthewingedkirby6800]

I'm with the imperials, the first guild I chose were the storm cloaks, I didn't like attacking whiterun as the people there did nothing wrong so when I made a new character, I chose the imperials as an imperial because of finding extra money but when I saw that I had to defend whiterun, I gladly accepted the mission, if I had to choose between the imperials and the stormcloaks, I would always choose the imperials, I would only have one stormcloak character just to see every mission but In my opinion, I stand by the ones who protect innocents, not kill them as they've done nothing wrong

[@jamesmccloud7535]

In the beginning of the game Tullius helped the nords at helgen to escape and prioritized them. So much for not caring about nords huh.

[@RunicRaven2022]

BTW That was Hadvar who said He's/She's not on the list

[@hugogh3507]

hahah the empire is cucked by the thalmor, real men join the stormcloak

[@Marconel100]

Finally a brother Nord.

[@yungneutron164]

fuck yeah my dude

[@TerribilisScriptor]

yes go right ahead and "free" skyrim of the badbad empire that would be the only thing keeping the thalmor you hate so much out of skyrim. what makes you think ragtag-nazi-rebels stand a chance against the thalmor who badly BEAT the empire in a war? if you really want to save skyrim you serve the empire.

[@Dopedupster]

These ragtag-nazi-rebels have the Dragonborn on their side. I think they're pretty good covered up for a war with pitty elves when they have a demigod on their side.

[@TerribilisScriptor]

Aku leskinen even a dragonborn couldn't take on the entire thalmor military. we are talking HORDES OF MAGES and warriors + siegeequipent attacking multiple locations at once. and even the dragonborn can only be defending 1 place at a time.

[@Hruljina]

I think you made a few mistakes there though, and I hope you dont mind debating :D Ulfric is not a racist. People claim he is because of the grey quarter, but at the same time, people forget that grey quarter was there for more than 200 years, and is a product of elves seeing windhelm only as a temporary home before returning to Morrowind. They lived in the city for more than two centuries, but when the war comes, they claim that "This is not our war" The high elf merchant in Windhelm, not only lives outside of Grey Quarter, but also has one of the largest homes in Windhelm, showing that there is no limit on where elves can live. Anothe high Elf lives outside of Grey quarter and owns the "White Phial" And a Dunmer Belyn Hlaalu owns a succesful farm and even has Nords working for him. Several inhabitants of Windhelm, some of them being Dunmer (Faryl Atheron) will say that Dunmer not only dont want to integrate, but also see working for Nords as beneath them and humiliating. "My sister and I both work for the Nords. Our brother is ashamed of us, but at least we can affort [sic] to eat." ---------------------------------- About executions: The Captain isnt the only person there. There were dozens of soldiers/guards, along with General of Imperial legion. All of them heard that you are not on the list, and did nothing to save you/prevent your execution. The abandoned prison, on the way to Windhelm (destroyed by flooding) has imperial orders to execute all the prisoners or leave them to drown before abandoning the prison: We can't let the prisoners out, so either kill them or let them drown. Either way, all guards must evacuate as soon as possible. The storm is about to wash this whole fort into the river and I'll be damned if I have to report one Legion death while under my watch. You have your orders!

[@metatronyt]

Muhamed Husic - Ibrukic I love debating :) I actually don't claim Ulfric is a racist because of the grey quarter, when I mention the grey quarter I talk about the heavy situation you have in Windhelm which wouldn't make it a pleasant city to live in as a elf. I think he is racist because when I do missions for him he often says something against the elves, if I find the actual script I will post it. the general was there, it's true but I think he was concerned more about Ulfric than anything, so yes he should have said something that I admit you are right, but for the normal soldiers how could they oppose a captain's decision? thank you for your comment :D

[@Hruljina]

Metatron But he is fighting what is basicaly an independence war. And unlike real life, the Elder scrolls universe has 1 country for each race. If we had a country of Whiteia and Blackia for respective races, would shouting Whiteia/Blackia belongs to Whites/Blacks during independence war be racism, or nationalism/patriotism? Especialy when considering that non-Nords have high posts in Stormcloak areas and live comfortably (High elves in Windhelm, Dunmer advisor to Jarl of Winterhold, Elven managers/business owners in Riften) Now, onto attitude and acusations of being imperial spies :) Go to New Gnisis cornerclub, upper floor and tell me if that isnt imperial armor and Skooma behind the crates :)

[@archslayer4425]

Muhamed Husic - Ibrukic no actually the grey quarter was not there for that long, it used to be the white quarter when toryyg was around. meaning it was for everyone to live in

[@caydenblackwell2176]

First thing is first: I love Stormcloaks, and I go against the Current Empire 100%. The older Empire however [most particularly the rein of Tiber Septim (or Talos, if you will)] was amazing, mostly because he was a Nord originally and acted somewhat like the average Nord. However, Ulfric was, indeed racist. The reason he is racist is merely because he doesn't accept people that aren't Nords. Being racist means you dislike a particular race in general, that doesn't mean that one particular person in the race can't gain your favor. Look at the American Civil War, for example, there were black people that owned black slaves and were fairly rich. Does that mean that the Civil War wasn't racist?

[@caydenblackwell2176]

+Jason Bergman Is this reply towards me, and If so please elaborate, I merely don't understand. If the Argonians being shut out of Windhelm is the topic, then yes I know this, but I'll have to look into Ulfric's reasoning. Sometimes being racist might just be Ulfric's form of security, and loyalty to his people.

[@theworld1759]

It's kind of a "assumption" that all imperials are evil, Hadvar saves you from murdering them all

[@car6697]

sure I guess, but that ALSO applies to the Stormcloaks too then, it's an assumption that all Stormcloaks are "racist". especially when Ralof tells you: "you DON'T HAVE TO be a *nord* to fight for Skyrim and her people*

[@patrick6011]

Make peace and destroy dominion

[@khaos5085]

Ulfric all the way peace and love.

[@elyptick9056]

"What the stormcloaks like to forget is that the empire is what's keeping the dominion out of skyrim"

[@CommanderM117]

what the empire like to forget the empire is the reason the dominion is IN SKYRIM

[@alformodoritos2076]

What the stormcloak likes to forget is that the Talos ban wasn't really tightly enforced by the empire after the Markath incident caused by Ulfric. Only after that did the Dominion was forced to crack down on Talos worshippers om Skyrim. In other words, Ulfric is the cause why the Dominion is in Skyrim.

[@CommanderM117]

what the empire likes to forget is that it started the stormcloak civil war and the reason ever provinces hates the empire mark my words high rock will join up with hammerfell out of spit and profit. and as a dunmer ulfric is in a position to get us on his side and black marsh lots of reason why we dunmer would help them and the empire did nothing to help us

[@ShepardN7.]

Remember the Empire surrendered to the dark elves and signed a treaty to ban the worship of talos the same person who founded the Empire.

[@bradlygamez4549]

Wileyman 1997 no not the dark elves but the high elves

[@PeterCTheRock]

I ride for Ulfric! I ride for Stormcloaks! I ride for Nords! I RIDE FOR FREEDOM!!! Talos smite you imperial milk drinkers!

[@PeterCTheRock]

***** Hail and well met!

[@ThatCoolguy5858]

+Peter C Damn Stormcloak rebels..

[@PeterCTheRock]

***** just bring it on! when I finish you, Oblivion will be peace of cake for ya!

[@brandongoins3973]

+Peter C All hail Ulfric Stormcloak ! The True High King!

[@brandongoins3973]

+Peter C All hail Ulfric Stormcloak ! The True High King!

[@DeistPaladin]

To me, it was an obvious choice. You imperials tried to cut off my damn head for a misdemeanor in scene 1. Who do you think I'm going to side with?

[@Alfred5555]

I see people saying that for plot purposes the Empire has to win, (but the writers of ES6 can do whatever they want, people are just thinking too narrowly in terms of story direction) but ignore how the entire player direction of the game and thus Dragonborn is against the Empire and Thalmor, the logical progression of the grand narrative is for the Dragon to liberate Skyrim and then go on to more and greater things in the name of Skyrim. Maybe the people who make these videos don't realise as it stands the Dovah is basically a walking god in Tamriel and the only one at that, who narratively is a native of Skyrim and presumably friendly with Ulfric and the Stormcloacks.

[@Garnondorf]

11:11 Best 5 seconds of the video. Kidding, great work ! But I still prefer the Stormcloaks.

[@miguelfernandes6598]

To be frank after playing Oblivion and reading the book "The Great War" in Skyrim which depicted the balls of steel of Emperor Titus Mede II during the Siege of the Imperial City by the Dominion, I just had to side with the Empire. Then again, an Imperial victory would see Elisif on the throne, backed by Imperial interests, the Empire winning the war and Balgruuf becoming High King would be the perfect scenario for me at least as Elisif seems rather foolish and incompetent whereas Balgruuf is a Nord who honours his traditions, a warrior and good leader and also supports a United Empire. Besides, this is quite literally the Empire of Man right now, only human races are in the Empire, the nords of skyrim, bretons of high rock and the imperials themselves. Men should stand united against the elves of the Dominion.

[@dutchpatriot17]

Well, at least under the Empire a Moot will take place, and since Balgruuf is present at said Moot, there is still a slight chance he could become High King when the Empire wins. Unlike with the Stormcloaks, where he is removed from the throne.

[@residentevil2928]

Miguel Fernandes ulfric would be a better high king.

[@jonathanOschlaepfer]

@Tuosan I agree with what you said 100% but I also remember balgruuf being devoted af to whiterun and I doubt he would even accept high king, I'm honestly surprised balgruuf didn't just say " f' it " and just make whiterun its own faction ( probably because his military power was only guards )

[@mysterythekitsune2988]

The Empire but it dose not mean I hate the stormclocks I hate the thamor, so even if I fight for the empire cause I'm dragonborn I can kill as many of the thamor as I want added that its to weaken them and to show the thamor they can never control the dragonborn and cause I want to ruin the thamor plans.

[@yalkn2073]

For the glory of Empire?! More likely glory of Mer.

[@HumanOfPrey]

Man, stop playing Skyrim and learn crochet, it's the best you can do. You're speaking as if the Thalmor and the Empire are one-in-the-same, they are not. They are 2 very different and very opposing forces, so don't act like the Empire is working with the Dominion willingly and just hates both Talos and the idea of freedom, when all evidence points to the contrary. ALL lore and in game evidence points out the ironic fact that both Empire and Stormcloaks HATE the Dominion.

[@megasupermario1234]

Wirr Ling Actually, if you read the thalmour dossier on Ulfric and the Stormcloaks; they want the Stormcloaks to win the war so that General Tullius and the Empire will have to leave skyrim, leaving the Thalmor unopposed and free from being under the thumb of the empire so they can take skyrim easily.

[@Kernwadi]

“Water is like liquid elevator music.” -Bilbo Baggins

[@collidingwithmars]

I like your points. Although I favor the Stormcloaks, my next playthrough I will be choosing the imperials.

[@GerbilNoises]

Ok are ya ever gonna make even one play through cause I would like to see

[@collidingwithmars]

ShotThroughAWall Thatsgiveup Well I mean I just play the game by myself I don't record it or anything. You wouldn't want to see me play anyway i'm one of those guys that has to get ALL the loot.

[@GerbilNoises]

Flame Pineapple haha ok

[@Yukilumicest]

I like your voice, though you refer to yourself in the third person. But I came here expecting a political analysis, and left sorely missing that. Your reasons for picking a side were basically "I don't like racism", "I like the city more", "I like the armors more" ,"I like defending Whiterun" and "bias from previous games". There was almost no political analysis here, just a short overview of the Great War. You could have talked about the global political situation, the state of the Empire and its other provinces losing faith, the Thalmor's ultimate goal and if it should be prevented, the importance of allowing the worship of Talos, the possible consequences of this side winning the civial war and so on. Instead, I just got a list of things you like.

[@liftlash98]

I used to be a stormcloack through and through. But since I got the special edition I delved a little deeper into the empire's philosophy and I know that they want to overthrow the thalmor, not help them (which is why I sided with the stormcloaks before). Seeing as the imperials have both high rock and cyrodill to help them and the stormcloaks just have themselves, the empire have more hope to destroy the thalmor. Then again Ulfric makes a way better ruler than Titus Mede II (or whoever follows him after he is assassinated) so that throws a spanner into the works. I am undecided now...

[@lurkingharris]

liftlash98 but I don't think Ulfric is a better ruler than Titus Mede II. yes, he saved the concordat, but he also took back the imperial city, leading from the front, and nearly destroyed the Thalmor's army in Cyrodiil. That's pretty impressive. As for Ulfric, look at Windhelm as a reflection of his leadership. You've got the Argonians not even allowed inside, you've got blatant racism from the nord populace who are basically using the dunmer and Argonians as slaves with such low wages, and you've got the fact that, as brunwulf says, Ulfric isn't willing to combat a group of bandits terrorising dunmeri people just because they're not Nordic. The grey quarter is a dump too, and I dont accept the "no money to focus on it, must focus on the war" argument, because the war hadn't been going on for that long, he could've done it before. Windhelm has a lot of problems, and Ulfric should be dealing with them, or should have dealt with them already

[@ThePooper3000]

+Lurking Harris - Unofficial Pun Cubed Thing about the Dunmer (beings that are capable of living up to 2000 years) is that they've been in Windhelm for 200 years. If they can't improve their station in life or redeem themselves in the eyes of the locals, then honestly there is no point in helping them. Hell, an Altmer woman, Niranye, was able to move up in life as a merchant in Windhelm, and she's only been there just recently.

[@Cossu0l]

Ulfric sucks as a ruler, by the end of the Civil War, Windhelm is near bankrupt, more than half the Jarl he chooses are either imbeciles or straight up retarded.

[@IchHassePasswoerter]

I'd say take Balgruuf's side: The middle. A treaty could release Skyrim as an independent nation, but also bind it to a defensive alliance with the Empire. This gives them a full pool of manpower, but it also gives Skyrim the right to reinstate Talos worship. The Aldmeri can't do shit and Skyrim got good defensive terrain against Thalmor invasions.

[@noobalicious2607]

balgruuf is the reason i choose empire in every playthrough

[@gainsofglory6414]

I went stormcloak because after seeing how weak and stretched the empire was and how corrput they were making many of the jarls, it seemed like a weakness for the empire. A case of defending everything turning into defending nothing. The nords had no leadership in their corrupt jarls, they were all complacent and getting fat on Imperial coin, and the imperials in the region knew nothing of nord ways even though nords founded the empire. Also any empire that agrees to not worship or celebrate its literal founder hero god is not an empire, its the corpse of an empire. It is spiritless. Nords on the otherhand work best with great heroes. Rally behind their strongest. They have many in the world now. I think the empire is crumbling and needs to focus on defending the south. I think the nords can defend skyrim better on their own without the Imperial infulence on their stagnant, weak jarls. I really think their presence in skyrim currently after the concordant and from the losses in the war, combined with turmoil still causing issues from the oblivion crisis, they empire is just to weak and needs to consolidate. Its holding skyrim back and will get rolled over. The nords, with their heros and their open talos worship will be a much stronger defense or even offense against the thalmor. I'm also sympathetic to Windhelms plight on racial and culture issues. They are the border city. After the eruption of red mountain, dunmer leaving morrowind all flooded Windhelm. These are people that have fought many wars. So an empire in cyrodill or even nords way over in solitude and markath don't have to deal with them at all, they have no refugeee quarters or influx of mass migrants. At a time where nord traditions are already being trampled I can see easily what Ulfric is dealing with that no other nord leaders have to deal with. Its like north easterners in the US crapping on texas over border issues from a cozy, safe distance. Though I am also a viking fanboi. I cant fight the stormcloaks, I just cant. I've tried Imperial characters because they have solid points too. But I can't do it. If we were in any other province and it was the same set up I would be going full Gallic wars Ceasar with Roman armor mods on my imperial characters all day long.

[@NoForksGiven]

Everyone arguing about how which to join and meanwhile I'm just chilling here, hunting vampires and doing a million and one fetch quests for everybody. I haven't touched the main story in weeks and I have no intention to. I got shit to do, vampires to maul

[@yobro4669]

I like the Stormcloaks. They have many problems, but I see passed them. I like Imperials, but I hate the Thalmor.

[@AsymmetricalCrimes]

The Stormcloaks are funded by the Thalmor....

[@wolves600]

well lore-wise the Empire managed to keep thalmor justiciars out of Skyrim until Ulfrci started his rebellion

[@jamesmccloud7535]

@@AsymmetricalCrimes exactly they literally give them secretly some supplies to steer up trouble

[@AsymmetricalCrimes]

@Nick Pruiksma Because Imperial soldiers attacking the Thalmor would be an act of war. The Empire would rather wait, finish off the rebellion and then focus on getting revenge against the Dominion

[@car6697]

@@GhostickTaperKing empire or AD, there's NO difference to me honestly since the empire LITERALLY takes orders and does the bidding for the Thalmor like kidnapping and taking Talos worshippers in Skyrim's OWN homeland to be most likely interrogated, tortured, and then killed. and you're NOT gonna change my mind no matter how hard any of you pro-empire guys may or may not try to with your lies. at LEAST the Stormcloaks will NEVER bow down and KISS the Thalmor's ass like the empire DOES

[@ErnestoCifer]

The only reason I joined the Stormcloacks is because the Imperials tried to freaking kill me in the start of the game

[@ErnestoCifer]

+thijs piggelen I think we had the same conversation in this comment section last year

[@jaqui7046]

+Ernesto Cifer lol i chose them because of that too

[@Abdullahh95]

+General Decianus You made a very well point on all the comments around this subject.

[@Abdullahh95]

General Decianus There are way too many points against the stormcloaks to even be in position of choice.

[@salvador0919]

"forget the list. he goes to the block" is why I almost never support the empire.

[@scottpickering5576]

At least the stormcloak armor doesn't look like a dress.

[@Dell-ol6hb]

justin pickering lol probably something a nord Stormcloak would say.

[@blstcx8224]

lmao they fr wear skirts

[@Inquisitor_Vex]

Dell12 16 Cis-Nord.

[@thatchannel195]

Romans wore tunics

[@laisphinto6372]

You weaklings wear barbarian pants in the snow

[@mycommandisyourwish]

You say that the near execution of "the player" is not a problem with the Empire as a whole but just that single captain, while general Tullius stands right beside her and does _nothing_ PS. If you find the stormcloacs racist against elves, try playing morrowind. The dunmeri word for foreigner is the same as the word for slave...

[@HumanOfPrey]

You should note, even if you tell Tullius you were in Helgen to be beheaded, he STILL lets you join the Legion. So obviously it wasn't even his concern, it was the ONE captain who refused to listen to a lower-ranked soldier saying the protagonist wasn't on the list.

[@mycommandisyourwish]

Of course he does. More meat for the imperial grinder ;) No matter his later change of heart: He saw it, he heard it and he did not care if the captain wanted some extra heads to roll.

[@HumanOfPrey]

mycommandisyourwish Which part of "even if you tell Tullius you were in Helgen to be beheaded, he STILL lets you join the Legion" you didn't understand?

[@mycommandisyourwish]

At Helgen Tullius and the Empire was winning. They had caught Ulfric and knew that they could get away with anything they wanted. Randomly beheading people is not beneath them. And Tullius cares not for the player character a single bit. Then Alduin attacks, Ulfric escapes, and an important stronghold guarding the road towards the Rift is lost (Territory held by Stormcloacs as I'm sure that you know). Things is starting to look grim for the Imperial cause. When the player character reaches Tullius in Solitude he needs any pair of capable hands he can get his hands on. So he “generously” offers you to join the legion. But do you know what he says if you exit that conversation? "There something I can do for you? Perhaps direct you to the nearest prison..." - General Tullius He does not “let you join”. He is indirectly forcing you. You either fight for him, or you rot in a cell. [Yes, he does not actually throw you in jail. But that is a matter of gameplay design and not something to attribute to Tullius... generous attitude]

[@beratsen6308]

What Akatosh says "ALWAYS STAY LOYAL TO YOUR EMPIRE!"

[@marsnz1002]

playing dunmer escape Helgen with my boy Ralof, damn Imperials tried to execute me Ralof be like `go to Windhelm` Get to windhelm First Nord I see: `the fuck you looking at elf?` :(

[@XoRandomGuyoX]

Let that be a lesson to you: Captain Bitch does not represent the entire Empire.

[@tyrannosaurusrex26]

I learned that the hard way with my Argonian playthrough.

[@TheAscendedSaiyanEliteV1TM]

Tell me: is he a Stormcloak? No, so just ignore that Drunken Man.

[@HammerheadGuitar]

+XoRandomGuyoX True she was actually quite nice for an imperial dog.

[@Buzzy_Bland]

Mark Diaz Rolff Stonefist is very much a Stormcloak. He's very vocal about how he hates the Dark Elves for *not supporting their Stormcloaks*. Doesn't really help his case when you realize he's Galmar Stonefist's brother.

[@slavvingsquats2146]

So you don't choose the Storm Cloaks because he doesn't like the elves even though the elves nearly demolished the Empire and they banned the worship of an important Divine. Yeah that's a real good reason

[@SirSparrowHawk]

DarkNecromancerKnight one race...wood elves and dark elves, khajiit, argonians also get bad flak. and drake elves and argonians joined Skyrim in the great war!

[@schmebulock4567]

I really hope, there's nothing like a drake elf in Skyrim or any TES game! ;)

[@TerribilisScriptor]

that "important devine" is a mere fragment of akatosh just like the player, the dragons and all dragonborn before us. so worshipping him is redundant. just worship akatosh.

[@nakedsnake7026]

The Empire have a peace treaty for the Thalmor to not be pricks and destroy everything, unfortunately they have the right to ban the worship of Talos. But, storm cloaks would ruin that treaty, and "plunge skyrim into chaos" through segregation, no strong government, and having an extremely right sided conservative tyrant who is also racist to a large portion of the population in which is made up of multiple races other than Nords.

[@TerribilisScriptor]

Lulzado you get it brother

[@canekrendon4751]

My first Skyrim run I was a Stormcloak, then for the next ones I didn't even consider it for a second. The White Gold Concordat was signed to end the war and protect the people, because the Talmor were that superior, military speaking, so it was the smart thing to do. Stormcloaks are basically Nazis, I will never be a part of that faction (and I've had 5 complete runs of Skyrim with different races).

[@osurac1880]

Ulfric pretty much blackmailed torryg, you see, to go to sovnguard, you have to live by these certain customs, 1 is accepting challenges, so ulfric challenged torryg to a fight, he knew, everyone knew, he could never beat ulfric, but he had to accept. It was like, fight me or dont go to heaven. LOL its like die or you wont go to heaven. And, you cant forget the fact that the legion IS a legion, it has allies, like, the argonians, they are in the empire, argonians join the empire, same as khajiits, now the stormcloak rebellion is like, just 1, the nords, if they beat the empire, aldmerian domion can just, march across cyrodill and go to skyrim, oh what? You think the empire is going to help you? Bro you just slaughtered them, you think people from hamerfell are gonna come down and save you? No, they could give no fucks, i mean they could if they really wanted to, but they dont really give any fucks.

[@osurac1880]

Now you see, rikke is like the ulfric of the imperials, rikke loved skyrim, she wanted to see it succeed, thats why she stook with the empire, if you play the stormcloaks, at the last battle, you see ulfric beg rikke not to fight, because ulfric and her were friends, they were in the great war together. RIkke is like the leader of the empire in skyrim, fk tullius hes just some random general picked to go assist, he gives no fucks about skyrim, rikke's pretty much the general.

[@angusdurham561]

Neither argonians nor Khajiit are part of the empire at the time of skyrim. Black marsh seceded shortly after the oblivion crisis and Elsweyr joined the aldmeri dominion after the dominion claimed credit for the end of the void nights in 4E 100.

[@osurac1880]

Angus Durham Argonians and khajiit are part of the empire, the empire is apart of everyone, well, not APART of the empire, but argonians and khajiits join the empire, there isnt any in skyrim because they were lazy ont he diversity of guards, there are mods that fixxx that.

[@HumanOfPrey]

+Osurac Rennet Argonians and Khajiits joined the Empire during Tiber Septim's reign. After the Oblivion Crisis the Argonians seceded from the Empire to wage war against the Dark Elves and the Khajiits joined the Dominion after the elves used "dawn magic" to bring the moons back.

[@Quillever]

This is assuming the Dominion could defeat an independent Skyrim. Hammerfell was sold out by the Empire, and left to fight the Dominion alone. Yet that war ended with a Redguard victory.

[@acendantoverlord5737]

Wow people in the comments are no different than the soldiers in the game. If people thought about it both sides are both equally good and bad, They call stormcloaks racist which they are but the empire is no different. During the Oblivion crisis and great war they pulled troops out of other provinces (Morrowind and Hammerfell) and abandon them. People argue that it's because they needed to protect their most important I'll call it "resource's" and that yea that sucked but needed to happen. The stormcloaks do this in a similar fashion they focus on themselves to protect their vital "resources" but are called racists despite that Morrowind who is it's own country now was given land by SKYRIM (Solstheim) and opened their doors to them. The Nords were disgruntled at that point but they didn't resort to racism till the civil war broke out when the Nords asked/expected help from the Dark elves they got none. The Nord shouldn't resort to racism but their pissed as would anyone be. Despite what I have said so far the Stormcloaks should not win the war due to them being extremist's due to their anger/racism towards all the other races not just the elves and beast races. Redguards and Bretons to. which will leave their economy plummeting. But the empire is in a toxic situation with the Aldmeri Dominion walking all over them who CAN and ARE causing just as much damage as the Nords are doing to them selves. Neither side is fit to win because both endings to the war highly suggest the same outcome. As the Dragonborn I see a very different ending/solution to the war which I hope Bethesda does. As people should know you as the Dragonborn can initiate a temporary truce at the Heed of Jarl Balgruf. Jarl Balgruf as we know wants to have no part in the war. So in his position with a peace treaty signed which he knows won't last will formulate a plan. It's very simple someone needs to be put on the Throne of Skyrim. It has to be someone who holds higher statues than Both the Empire and Ulfric Stormcloak, It has to be someone that the masses love and respect, It has to be someone Powerful in both Power and Mind. This person would be the Dragonborn, He stopped the World from ending The masses love him and respect him for that both citizen and Jarl alike, His power doesn't need questioned and he was the only won to focus on the real threat and put a stop to the bloodshed which people will see him as a mindful person for that. Now some may say what about status? How does he hold more weight than both the Empire and Ulfric. As people should know the Septim dynasty were Dragonborn's. Jarl Balgruf can even if it's untrue (no will know otherwise) can claim the Dragonborn to be a descendent of the Septim line. So not only is the Dragonborn a avatar like figure of Talos he can be connected to Tiber Septim/Talos. No one would have more right than the Dragonborn. Jarl Balgruf would initiate a moot in which all the Jarls have to attend in their heads thinking at what Balgruf hopes to get out of this right on till he announces the Dragonborn as a candidate using all the points mentioned above. Neither side would be dumb enough to say no. Why? Well because if Ulfric were to say no or any other jarl under the Stormcloak banner, It would destroy support from the people who view the Dragonborn as a Talos figure so they have to reluctantly say yes. What about the Empire? If they were to say no They would be putting A lot of fuel for the Stormcloaks in the masses. They both won't say no because the Masses/people would fall under the Dragonborn's Banner with the support of Balgruf. What I'm saying is both sides would say yes because their would be to much shit involved if they no. So who's fit to win well the Fucking Dragonborn and I'm displeased that barley no one has ever chose this route. So if I was a citizen of skyrim I would fall under the man with no banner, the Dragonborn.

[@TK-7788]

Acendant Overlord I agree sir.

[@DrNukeShow]

What an essay

[@nillalolo4258]

Acendant Overlord Unfortunately, this isn't an option in the game. Wish it was.

[@aeconn633]

Of course they are different, this is very similar to arguments made by actual racists from the South who claim the North was equally to blame for slavery and racism. After killing Ulfric "Fantasy Donald Trump" Stormcloak, the new Jarl makes efforts to desegregate the Grey Quarter and allow the Argonians to live in the city.

[@skyblue340]

Preach it

[@davidb3155]

My high elf: *slow claps for the stormcloaks* "skyrim belongs to the nords" *dasterdly grins*

[@conraderson9121]

This is exactly why the stormcloaks are idiots

[@Cx10110100]

Makes sense, considering the plot

[@amphibeingmcshpongletron5026]

@@conraderson9121 The Stormcloaks do what the Thalmor want without realizing it. The Empire does what the Thalmor want because they were told to. The Empire thinks they're playing the long game, but I have a feeling they'll just continue to submit because it's the "smart" thing to do. They laid down their arms willingly. The Stormcloaks, "idiotic" or not, will continue to resist when the Empire won't. I believe the Thalmor will get what they want regardless. In my role play for this game, I'd rather be part of the fight than the compromise, as I believe both will likely lead to Skyrim's destruction. Perhaps the big brother Thalmor will allow us to live out our tightly controlled lives in peace under their subjugation and command. How nice of them. At least nobody had to die! Gods praise them! (except for Talos, of course)

[@briansanders8122]

I always side with the Stormcloaks because, ultimately, the Empire decided to let their citizens' lives be dictated by a foreign power, throwing religious freedom in the trash.