EMPIRE vs STORMCLOAKS - Who is the Better Ruler? - Elder Scrolls Lore

[@BigM1020]

Man, I wanna be in the war but. That arrow in my knee... Hurts like hell.

[@peen9271]

Did you just?

[@whiterunguard4144]

Same here

[@whiterunguard4144]

@Muffins the Cat i got my eyes on you.

[@redterrorproductions1373]

Whiterun Guard No lollygaggin

[@redterrorproductions1373]

Whiterun Guard Wait, i know you!

[@danilima6970]

I love the fact that this game has almost 10 years and we still discuss the civil war.I hope Elder Scrolls VI has something like that.

[@tupacshinji605]

People say the story in Skyrim is flat/dull/boring but I find it anything but, if you take the time to get into it.

[@burritodog3634]

for some reason my gut tells me VI is going to be disapointing, kinda like Fallout 76, althought we dont know anything about it rn

[@tupacshinji605]

@@burritodog3634 Let's hope they want to defy the critics by making something awesome. They've just released something called Starscape (or something similarly named) haven't they? Which is a brand new title for them so they will be wanting to get that one absolutely right. & ES6 should be next in the pipeline....

[@aorkyork3405]

.......I like bread

[@groovyllicious]

Tupac Shinji Story does suck major dick. Its the lore of elder scrolls that is interesting with the combination of mysteries, twists and magic.

[@LAZERAK47V2]

Meanwhile, I just kill every Thalmor Patrol I come across and remain neutral. That way, the Empire can claim they're honoring the White Gold Concordat and Stormcloaks get their prisoners back. Everybody wins. I mean, except the Thalmor, but they're just salty that a man became a god before an elf did, so fuck em.

[@shadowfire3756]

Yup

[@raziberry1595]

I kill every thalmor patrol even when sided with the empire, just need to come up with excuses. "I swear, they tripped and fell on my sword!" "Sometimes bear attacks look like arrows!" "Fire magic? Whaaaaaaat I definitely didn't start with that spell!" "They clearly committed suicide... with a warhammer..." "I know it LOOKS like I thu'umed them off a mountain but um... thane of Whiterun?"

[@pelinalwhitestrake1677]

Well technically the tribunal were gods before talos was but the dark elves hate the high elves just such as they hate everyone else who isnt dunmer

[@raziberry1595]

@@pelinalwhitestrake1677 the tribunal were never full gods, they were only referred to as such, they were more like 'fake gods'

[@pelinalwhitestrake1677]

@@raziberry1595 I guess but I remember reading up somewhere that vivec was the one who taught tiber septim how to achieve chim. Even tho chim isnt technically godhood, it is a type of understanding that even lorkhan himself couldn't grasp. Chim also allows you godly powers even without the heart of lorkhan

[@mrdoormat6809]

Best ending: *Thalmor accidentally start 2nd Great War Ulfric: Well, never thought i'd die fighting side by side with an Imperial. Tulius: What about side by side with a friend?

[@thoruszwolf4153]

... while this is happening, Heimskr and Lurbuk are on their way to cast a ring into the fires of Vvardenfell... but they are pursued by Narfi

[@dhuh6760]

I read this in their voices and the intonation on "hwhot about side by side with a friend?" Was something that Tullius *would* say

[@jacobpedersen876]

Every Human dies

[@Saber23]

Unfortunately someone who sells your inalienable rights out to the enemy can never be a “friend”

[@GenericUsername-qp1ww]

Ulfric: Well, never thought i'd die fighting side by side with an Imperial. Tulius: What about side by side with a friend? Ulfric: aye, I could do that *walks over to the Dragonborn*

[@jace_519]

Why did you join the stormcloaks? *flashback “He’s not in the list” “It doesn’t matter he goes to the block”

[@noirevala]

My strongest logic as well

[@Soltrex-Y]

Ye same i dont care if its only a few ppl of the empire but im too petty to forgive that and i rather side with stormcloaks who respect strength and there own freedom than with the Empire who is betraying his own ppl and Talos and bending there knee instead of fighting like Hammerfell who are the only ones who pushed the Aldmeri Dominion succesfully back.

[@nicolasmartins5601]

@PIX3L PLAYER start the game again and look specifically at Tulius (you'll be in the carriage still). He is talking to a Thalmor. The Thalmor were planning to interrupt the execution and set Ulfric free, hence the rush to finish the execution. The Empire made a mistake tho, Ulfric should be the first to die(but that would end several questlines so he didnt), but he should've been Edit: btw it is stated in game the Thalmor were planning to hijack the execution

[@Suchmymimus]

@@Soltrex-Y They didn't push them back, that is why it is called a stalemate. The Dominion decided to leave.

[@Soltrex-Y]

@@Suchmymimus i mean ye they didnt defeat them straight but because hammerfell united the first time in over 1000 years and because they fought in guerrilla tactics. And of course because the aldmeri dominion lost so much against the empire in the battle of the red ring so basically they set it in motion that the elves thought it was toi dangerous to stay there so isnt that the same as driving them out?

[@reznique8615]

I was waiting for this for 7 years and 9 months. Now I can finally finish the game.

[@thatjapaneseguy7505]

Kept you waiting, huh. Wait wrong game.

[@anti-lifeequation1683]

Ooooooof

[@thievinglittlegoblin404]

Well stormcloaks are racist soooooo.......

[@ultra-nationalistodst8085]

@Floppy N'wah you’re is used as a shorter version of you are. Your is used to refer to possessions.

[@floppynwah8141]

@@ultra-nationalistodst8085 my apologies

[@lostsouls4144]

Why tf am I more invested in the politics of a video game than real life?

[@bat32391]

@Terra white You're joking right? The Thalmor want to undue reality and kill everyone. They are called "Nazi Elves" for a reason.

[@Elsass_Bastard]

Because it's easier for you to inform yourself on video game lore than real life lore

[@insertnamehere1983]

@Terra White the Thalmor literally kill people for worshipping a God who's shown to be real and one of the most important in nordic beliefs and they keep the civil war going because it helps them. Real life politics doesn't involve people storming cities and beheading people who rebel against them and the innocents in the way. Real politics doesn't involve a man using DRAGON MAGIC to kill the ruler so he can be the ruler. You really don't understand anything about skyrim's politics, let alone real politics

[@aceshotz5051]

bat32391 man the thalmor really made people fucking hate high elves... not all high elves are like the Thalmor tho they are like only one bad branch of the Aldmeri Dominion

[@Volcanoran3]

There's a lot less talking and therefore, a lot less bullshit.

[@seethenero2555]

You know, I've always wondered how things would've turned out if the Imperials just straight up made a "under the table" deal with the Stormcloaks to sort of fake a war or something to cover them building their forces enough to challenge The Summerset Isles itself. Just food for a thought.

[@hypermaeonyx4969]

The nords are too barbaric to understand what a table is

[@seethenero2555]

Exactly why they should take the fight to them while the Imperials handle the more "intricate" assignments

[@hypermaeonyx4969]

@@seethenero2555 exactly

[@TealFirefox4387]

I need fan fiction of this now

[@talon4618]

As great as this sounds for both sides, because the Thalmor have an embassy in Skyrim and headquarters in Solitude, this under-the-table deal and a fake war would not go unnoticed by the elves. The Thalmor, for all their prejudice and arrogance, are smart and cunning enough to see right through the ploy. There would be no proper cover-up for the rebuilding of their forces. The most the Empire could do is do what they do best, establish at least a temporary peace and rebuild overtime.

[@whiterunguard4144]

Stormcloaks, Imperials, dragons. Ain't no matter to me what I kill. Let them come.

[@dovahduke4566]

Sithis awaits

[@hazart8909]

Help someone stole my sweet roll🐝

[@insaincaldo]

Anyone a little concerned that this guy just wants to kill something?

[@RestlessRebel]

Wise words

[@Bckgroundguy101]

@@dovahduke4566 but what about that arrow in your knee?

[@Hercules1-v9m]

If I remember correctly, General Tullius tells you that the Empire is planning an uprising against the Dominion but they cannot do it while the Civil War is going on.

[@alyjahandujar1402]

(If canon) with the dragonborn siding with the Empire the aldmeri dominion is done. The dragonborn can just call a bunch of dragons with storm call and it's over

[@void9399]

@@alyjahandujar1402 Not really, dragons are not as scary as you think. Dragons have always been hunted as if they were anything. And the Thalmor are full of magicians, they can kill the dragons without problems. I remind you that the first dragon you kill in Skyrim falls even when you still don't use thu'um. Basically, a few guards and a Dunmer were enough to kill a dragon.

[@imbored7824]

Gabriel Pineda true but if they are used along with the force of the Empire and the Dragonborn I feel like they could easily beat the Dominion. The Dragonborn also has the Thuum and has powerful allies like Durnehviir. A dragon may be worth a couple men, but the Dragonborn is worth 100 dragons.

[@RedestRed]

Gabriel Pineda I thought only the Dragonborn has the ability to fully kill dragons with being able to absorb dragon souls

[@void9399]

@@imbored7824 Again, the dragons are not as powerful as they think, and neither is the Dragonborn. Thu'um is nothing more than a style of spiritual magic based on the language of dragons. Thalmor handle magic, which has no limits. And the magic is quite OP, only that in games it is reduced to balance game styles. Again, a few nords and a dunmer managed to kill a dragon at the start of the game. That already makes it clear that dragons are not so powerful.

[@tranor87]

RedGuards are so underrated. They have been single handedly fucking up the high elves in hammerfell

[@wolves600]

well not quirte singelhandidly this is one of the smartest thing the empire did they basically discharged most of the imperial soldiers stationed in Hammerfell so they stayed and fought the aldemeri dominion and the dominion couldn't complain also they barely won the war.

[@tezz2698]

Yeah. People often forget that they are the ones that make the best warriors on Tamriel, not nords or orcs.

[@Galaxy-rj1kj]

Wolves600Gaming no no the red guards went fucking ham

[@Galaxy-rj1kj]

TezZ they remind me of the Nubians with their bows or the black moors that were godly asf

[@wolves600]

@@Galaxy-rj1kj no you cna look it up they almost lost they barely won and that was when the Thalmor could only attack from one border next time they wont be lucky

[@AdrianVoidwalker]

When i sided with the Stormcloaks, I remember hearing from somewhere that at some point, You'll have to attack whiterun. And because of that, I stopped the quest temporarily to go get another house. I did this because i had adopted an orphan and she lived in the house in whiterun, I didn't want her to get caught in the crossfire, so I took her to another house where she'd be safer. Funny thing is, I knew she would be fine even if i didn't do that. But it didn't feel right to me.

[@Top_LoneWolf]

I did the same shit lol

[@Christiantheforestdweller]

That's when you know your way too into this game, and I am immensely happy that someone else got to that stage 😂

[@i20coyote85]

Fuck the other kids there tho right? Lmao still awesome

[@rockon772]

I left my adopted kids in an empty house near falkreath and never went back f them kids

[@hyperboi4077]

I tried doing this while taking over solitude but my children kept getting glitched and going back to Riften honeyside any time I tried to send them anywhere other than solitude so instead I made them watch the bloodshed.

[@BrosWithHeads]

Thalmor Justiciar: “We have outlawed and prohibited any worship of Talos. Is there anything you would like to confess?” Me holding Mehrune’s Razor and the Wabbajack with Azura’s Star in my pocket: “uhh... no”

[@HighlandBound]

I confess every time to those self-righteous pricks that I will kill them and I do

[@elijah4973]

Those are exactly the only daedric artifacts I have so far

[@ra_alf9467]

And wearing Boethiah's ebony armor. With Clavivus Vile's mask

[@BigBangAttack-mt6pz]

@@ra_alf9467 While wearing Hircine's ring

[@Luka-zi9kv]

Don’t forget, also carrying the mace of molag bal, dawnbreaker, ebony blade, sanguine rose, volendrung, oghma infinium, savior’s hide, ring of namira, skeleton key, skull of corruption and spell breaker. I have every single daedric artifact

[@TimTim_125]

Peace for everyone except the Thalmor

[@lulashlyn728]

No one and nazeem

[@Radioactivepaladin0703]

Well,the thalmor got everything in their hands so..

[@imamfahrizal5624]

@@Radioactivepaladin0703 except delphine, thalmor, and nazeem

[@samsudin9203]

@@imamfahrizal5624 delphine is not a bad guy , she's just stoopid

[@leonhart1164]

@@samsudin9203 She kinda is, though. She asked the Last Dragonborn to kill the homie Paarthurnax...

[@madslick4147]

I choose both depending on my character but I always run into the keep with ralof so I can kill that ole "forget the list, he goes to the block" head ass

[@chasewillian9010]

Omg! LOL! Im dying. Thank you so much for that. I needed it.

[@meganobgutzkraka2398]

i always picked hadvar, even when i first played because i thought when i was younger "oh shit rebels? well i guess i understand why they nabbed me if they found me close enough to them...i probably should follow the actuakly fucking soldier then?" ...i also didnt give ralof a chance to tell me i could follow him until the SECOND character...still picked hadvar because FREE SMITHING SHIT!

[@sushirofl516]

@@meganobgutzkraka2398 it is free smithing shit regardless of your choice. Its just laying there. Who will stop you?

[@dad5draco]

I wore her armour for so long after that.

[@rockyroadmagic4152]

MEGANOB GUTZKRAKA yeah i usually go hadvar because you get free steel and iron which is pretty good early game

[@Big_Pants_]

I mean, I feel like when it comes down to it whatever side you pick will be a deadly global superpower just because they’ve got the Dragonborn. The Dragonborn is basically like a nuclear weapon in a world where crossbows are revolutionary.

[@JoacoG11]

True, the Thalmor ain't doing shit against a literal demigod

[@datdabdoe1417]

well, The Dragonborn is Mortal. Presuming that the canon Dragonborn is a Nord warrior, He's only going to be alive for about 100 years. So, whoever wins the Dragonborn gets 80 years of military dominance, what happens after that though? And what about all the other aspects of a nation that need to be attended to?

[@hyperboi4077]

@@datdabdoe1417I’d almost bet that the dominion will start another war during the LDB’s lifetime. I’m sure the empire or Stormcloaks wouldn’t allow the rare opportunity of a powerful being to just slip them by. The LDB would certainly lower the Aldmeri dominions power if nothing else. Clavicus Vile does state that the Dragonborn matches his power while he’s without Barbas. And Clavicus is a deadric prince (a relatively weak one at that but still a deadric prince).

[@Jacobe2of4]

​@@datdabdoe1417 That's why Superman never influences human conflicts. As soon as he dies the entire world will be flung into turmoil

[@Wet_Deer]

What I find funny is when I play I barely use shouts so my character would be a super power even if he weren’t the dragon born

[@kruziikriaan]

*_i don’t need sleep, i need answers!_*

[@BurnoutRevengeForThePs2]

KruziiKriaan the empire is better, there ya go

[@t.t6294]

@bearded patriot then skyrim would crumble into pieces no other province would trade with them and slowly the aldermari dominion would take back skyrim and gain more power rather than the empire

[@Arcaneangel240]

@@t.t6294 I do agree with you skyrim needs the empire but what if the empire fails beating the thamor again I don't want a thamor skyrim I'm a nord legate for the empire and skyrim is my home and nobody's wants to lose there home

[@MrWongWey]

bearded patriot You really think that Skyrim by itself can do what the Empire united couldn’t against the Thalmor? Plus the fact that they don’t like to use magic puts them at an even greater disadvantage.

[@Arcaneangel240]

@@MrWongWey I do believe skyrim needs the empire but skyrim is my homeland and I believe the quicker the war ends the sooner we can deal with the true evil

[@hiddendesire3076]

I choose the peace treaty, give the thalmor the boot, then afterwards end the war with the imperials, but use pacify spells and Emperor’s voice to lower any possible casualties. Once had it end with about 19 Imperial soldiers and 16 Stormcloaks listening to Tulius’ speech at the end of the war. Even after the war is officially over and the spells/ability wears off, they do not fight. It is nice.

[@jacrispy3275]

Cool. Almost like some Stormcloaks saw through Ulfric's bullshit, & laid down their swords to the Empire to take out Ulfric.

[@erikho6936]

... I just killed them all

[@gooutdessert4113]

*I hate sand*

[@G59forlife.]

@@gooutdessert4113 its course... and, rough, and irritating... and it gets everywhere

[@EtherealFissure]

I like you.

[@pastorofmuppets4552]

Here’s the correct answer: The Imperials and Stormcloaks should join forces and kick Thalmor ass.

[@thoruszwolf4153]

Stormcloaks are up for that... unfortunately, the Imperials aren't allowed to, as it would defy their orders to aid and support all Thalmor actions within the Empire... perhaps if the Emperor changed his standing order, until then, the continuing trend of Legion soldiers rebelling is the only option for an alliance of the two against the Thalmor

[@Suchmymimus]

They already tried that. It didn't turn out that well.

[@thoruszwolf4153]

@@Suchmymimus What about the Great War? The Imperial forces, including mass forces from Skyrim, crushed the Aldmeri forces in Cyrodiil, and everything the Dominion could scrape up in the last 6 months of the War... if the Emperor hadn't intervened on behalf of the Dominion, the Thalmor would have been finished. ... the only thing keeping the Thalmor strong is imperial policy protecting and empowering them

[@Suchmymimus]

@@thoruszwolf4153 Only by signing the peace treaty known as the White-Gold Concordat was the Empire able to survive the onslaught of the high elven Aldmeri Dominion, and thus end the Great War. This unbiased loading screen quote states otherwise.

[@thoruszwolf4153]

@@Suchmymimus Loading screens do contain false information from time to time. this narrative ignores the concise account of the Great War written by the Commander of the Tenth Legion, Justianus Quintus... would you contend that the whole story about the Battle of the Red Ring never happened, nor did the Emperors escape from the Imperial city, and that the Aldmeri capture of the Imperial city was the End of the War?

[@teriddax3692]

Given his stance, I was so sure that Balgruuf would side with whomever I did. When I chose the Stormcloaks, when I invaded Whiterun, when the first person to make me Thane called me out, that stung. The imperials almost executed me, but it still stung.

[@SotiCoto]

Honestly, I had a kinda different reaction. I also expected Balgruuf to side with the Stormcloaks because he seemed like a proud Nord and all that.... but it turns out he was just dragging his heels and opting to turn against the first one who lost patience with him. When he decided to turn against Ulfric, I was disappointed in him. Genuinely disappointed. I certainly didn't feel bad about my choice. He should have felt bad about his.

[@hyperboi4077]

I also expected him to side with whoever I chose. At the time in the quest when you’re delivering the item to him the faction you chose is permanent. But I felt differently about it when I chose stormcloaks. It felt like he betrayed me because he knew I was the Dragonborn and decided to join my opposition. Technically speaking though there should be no reason that jarl Balgruuf wouldn’t consider joining the stormcloaks since he is neutral and secretly warships talos, Ulfric even considers him a true nord and believes that he will join the rebellion at first. In my eyes I think his hatred for ulfric is what ultimately convinced him to join the legion but that’s kind of dumb considering most of the stormcloak jarl’s don’t even like ulfric and consider him to be the lesser of two evils.

[@AquaKeyBlade98]

I felt the same. I truly considered Jarl Balgruuf a friend, and yet he finally makes his decision once I give him mine, a decision that turns him against me and arguably against what he believes in. It felt like a slap in the face, really.

[@proudamerican183]

How can you feel any sort of friendly feelings towards a man that you only spend a few minutes talking with? Or am I the only one that is like "Let's get this over with"?

[@Buzzy_Bland]

@@SotiCoto Balgruuf’s loyalty lies with his people. He knows his people (or Skyrim as a whole, for that matter) won’t benefit from a civil war, so he refuses to join the side that is openly calling to start one. Said side then delivers an outright ultimatum to him to either join them or die. And you’re disappointed in him when he accepts help to defend his city from invasion? The man has every right to be disappointed in *you*, his sworn thane. You betrayed your title and helped enemies of whiterun besiege the city, supported them showering his people in a flaming barrage, and slaughtering the defenders that had previously fought alongside you against a dragon.

[@king_kebab2949]

Me: *looks up which faction is better and asks in comments for others opinions* Fudgemuppet: *uploads video* me: *checks through blinds*

[@MrWongWey]

StevieG He doesn’t need to look inside your house. *Hes already inside your home.*

[@CoffeeSuccubus]

Wrong You look through the comments and hide

[@andrewjohnson7801]

@@CoffeeSuccubus wrong he used the shadow stone and stood behind you and watched your screen

[@brovahkiin4302]

Jarl balgruuf is, in my opinion, the perfect moral compass in Skyrim. A strong man, who cares for his people no matter what (i.e. sending troops to riverwood), who cares not for race, only for character (like irileth) and who does not care much about what the Dominion has to say even letting a priest of talos preach right before his fortress. He only joins with the empire out of necessity, because it's the lesser evil. He sees ulfric as the powermad racist he is, and while still being a true and brave Nord, he is also a smart one. He chooses not to divide Skyrim, but to keep the empire united for a second great war.

[@shadowdragon714]

^ This. its one of the reasons why i play Imperial

[@Valencetheshireman927]

Same 👍

[@dnlhaxor]

Jarl Balgruuf has some dirty secrets though

[@rose_470]

I believe that Bethesda actually did a good job on the whole 'You are canonically the Thane of Whiterun'. They made me actually care about the fact that I'm supposed to be a protector of this hold and so, when Ulfric came knocking with an army at his back, I chose to spit on his face and Shout him off that gaudy throne of his.

[@internallydarkskin6800]

Brovahkiin Ulfric Is racist????

[@adolfgaming1761]

Cicero is the best leader! Hes best for the economy because he *-Oils it* *-Preserves it* *-MASTRUBA-*

[@joshuadejager1947]

That’s it, I’m placing you under arrest

[@arandomgreekfrombactria6302]

@@joshuadejager1947 agh DAMN iT LOOK! (Holy sounds)

[@ra_alf9467]

@@arandomgreekfrombactria6302 By the Gods What is that thing?

[@Drheims]

​@@ra_alf9467its a dragon!!! Ready your weapons ​

[@Luka-zi9kv]

He gets those *hard to reach* spots

[@reddeaddude2187]

It always seemed like an oversight that you can't show Tullius and Ulfric the Thalmor Dossier that clearly states they want neither side to win. There should've been an option at the peace conference where the Stormcloaks fight alongside the Imperials to kick the high elves out of Skyrim. In return, Skyrim can be an autonomous client state within the Empire. A united humanity can wipe those damn elves off the face of nirn.

[@etendudeaufraiche146]

They can't beat the thalmor

[@andryuu_2000]

@@etendudeaufraiche146 united, yes, they can

[@SwanTeeth]

@@etendudeaufraiche146 they got a dragonborn on their side who can call dragons into battle, summon an ancient frost giant, and makes weapons better than those made by the gods, a fully realized dragonborn could wipe the aldmeri dominion

[@vxsoma4198]

@@SwanTeeth in lore the thu’um is actually stronger than it is in game, as well as karstaag. Also durnehviir is WAYYYYYY stronger than he’s portrayed in the game, same with odaahviing (im probably spelling these wrong). Not just that but im sure parthuunax the literal right hand of Alduin wouldnt mind helping. Not just that but the dragonborn in lore is the archmage so he can summon daedra, resurrect an army of dead soldiers and use magic, maybe in es6 we’ll be able to fight the thalmor

[@richardmazkin9994]

The sad thing is that Tullius wouldn't be surprised. He has the perspective to see beyond Skyrim's borders and sees the coming conflict between the Aldmeri and the Empire. Ulfric and most Stormcloaks seem to have deluded themselves into believing that the Empire WANTS to stay under Thalmor control. That is the farthest thing from the truth.

[@aaeve5676]

Why did you join the impierials? **I don't know, Hadvar was nice to a dying prisoner I guess**

[@omniis_chillin5288]

Up to the block you go prisoner. Captain gonna cut ur head off now. Rolof was nicer.

[@Aethuviel]

So many join the Stormcloaks by default because "the Empire tried to cut my head off for no reason!!!1"

[@aaeve5676]

@@omniis_chillin5288 I also belive that if your odds are against you, you might as well go for peace which is what the empire did. Too many centuries in the ice has damaged those stormcloak brains.

[@epicplaye5150]

I joined the imperials because that’s the only way personally I think Skyrim can stay in check because if they go independent The Elves are prolly gonna conquer skyrim anyways if they break away from the empire

[@Agent-gg8nj]

@@epicplaye5150 well I mean the empire wanted keep the dragon born in check, the elfs would have been the least of their problem if the empire succeeded

[@trentonpepito]

I think if Tullius told you that the empire is planning an uprising, it would've been a good time to tell Ulfric that at the peace meeting for the main quest

[@mcgoldenblade4765]

Did you forget that Elenwen was present? I know that the player can tell her to go fuck herself and leave, but the fact that she even showed up in the first means that disclosing those plans isn't a very smart thing to do.

[@roojackaroo8517]

@@mcgoldenblade4765 only goes to show that the Empire is the Thalmor's bitch right now

[@jordanscott4543]

Roo Jackaroo only on the surface. The empire have been rebuilding and growing right under the Thalmor’s nose. And at the point in time of Skyrim it’s confirmed that the empire actually has more forces than the thalmor who are at their weakest. The races of man repopulate like rabbits in comparison to the high elves. The empire has been preparing since the signing of the white gold concordat for when the thalmor try crossing them.

[@roojackaroo8517]

@@jordanscott4543 I seriously doubt the empire has any chance against the Thalmor. The only losses the Thalmor faced are the devastation of their army at the battle of Red Ring. The empire lost thousands and thousands of civilians and military personnel which ruined Cyrodiil's economy and would have caused damage they are still recovering from. The empire is so desperate they couldn't afford to send Tullius reinforcements to conserve their meagre army for the next war and they are fools for that because they underestimate the ability of the rebels. The fact that the Dark Brotherhood emperor assassination is framed as 'something which will help the empire' should tell you enough that Titus Mede II will ruin the Empire in the 2nd great war

[@jordanscott4543]

Roo Jackaroo except for the fact that the Thalmor as well are reeling from what’s going on in Tamriel. The empire’s forces are actually growing while the Thalmor’s have at best stagnated. Humans are like rabbits in comparison to the elves. At the end of the day the Thalmor sees the Empire as the biggest fish to tackle so they’re trying to take out as many chunks as they can by prolonging a civil war. And while no one (except for the Thalmor of course) know that the stormcloaks are pawns, the empire does know that the Thalmor are up to something. The Thalmor however don’t know that they know. The empire at this point is bolstering and just waiting for the Thalmor to throw their first punch. Plus the fact that it’s a toss up of which side of the civil war comes out on top despite the fact that the imperial side is underfunded and has no reinforcements available further proves to me that the stormcloaks surely stand no chance against the Thalmor. The stormcloaks are weak they’re having a hard time fighting a small weak imperial occupation in Skyrim. Meanwhile that’s not all of the empire. So if the empire can’t beat the Thalmor the stormcloaks definitely can’t

[@mikehawk2826]

Me: FOR THE EMPIRE!FOR THE LEGION! Also me assassinating the emperor: Nothing personnel kid...

[@thoruszwolf4153]

....makes one wonder what empire you support... one with Pointy eared leaders perhaps o.0?

[@mikehawk2826]

Thorus Zwolf I support the empire that would allow me to unleash my wrath upon the dominion even if it means I must make a martyr of my emperor

[@Lolpy.]

Get rid of the weak emperor, and hope a better one takes his place.

[@gavinmorrison2597]

Mike Hawk it’s just good business

[@ethanwoods1775]

Pixelated Michael Jackson Exatly what I did after killing the Emperor and Motierre

[@WindveilGT]

You see those warriors from Hammerfell? They have curved swords. Curved. Swords.

[@damieng6368]

Why don't they have hammers? such a waste.

[@mohawk4759]

@@damieng6368 cuz the hammers fell

[@Lars_Ziah_Zawkian]

​@@mohawk4759LMAO take my like ye basterd

[@OsamaBinLooney]

wouldn't be a good game without at least one d**k joke

[@bolsahueca]

​@@mohawk4759💀💀💀

[@niko_8208]

I always found it wrong that the empire got their own armor but the stormcloaks just got recolored guard armor.

[@niko_8208]

@Slender Man yes but stormcloaks aren't guards.

[@TheVampManson]

Because Stormcloaks are disgusting ragtag unwashed rebels who use only what they have.

[@niko_8208]

@@TheVampMansonBut where would all of these stormcloaks gotten hold guard armor? Its kinda the same thing with everyone using the same steel armor everywhere

[@TheVampManson]

@@niko_8208 Because Ulfric was Jarl of Windhelm. He had an armory full of surplus guard outfits for his Hold and he repurposed the guard outfits into standard-issue for his militia of rebels. That's the only thing that can make sense for explaining why, at least.

[@niko_8208]

@@TheVampManson that actually makes perfect sense thank you

[@Dutch_VDL_]

CAN WE PLEASE DESTROY THE THALMOR IN TES VI

[@MyTonyGames]

Its 8 years after the dragonborn soooo it could be possible!

[@acativ9]

Well... AD is the cause for almost every if not all of the TES games chaos.. So i dont think its possible to remove them from the next elder scrolls. Unless the next elder scrolls will be all about fighting them or with them.

[@Alex_Munoz5]

@@MyTonyGames its confirmed the time it will take place in?

[@Aethuviel]

No. We've had 4000 years of human empires. Time for a second Merethic era!

[@Alex_Munoz5]

@@Aethuviel ur a fucking monster

[@gryphon4611]

Stormcloaks, Imperials, I dont care, As long I can kill off the thalmor im satisfied

[@McHobotheBobo]

Only possible through backing the Empire tbh

[@merox614]

A man would be more happier with the belly full of mead

[@dredgenyeeet4343]

Agreeing with that

[@brooklyn560]

So the Empire then

[@wjp1238]

@@McHobotheBobo *Stormcloaks

[@childishgrimm9610]

Good ending: Tulius tells Ulfric that the Empire is planning an uprising against the Dominion when they have their ceasefire talks in the main story, and everyone finally starts seeing eye to eye But instead at the talks everyone is like "Well he started it" and now no one is happy

[@EnbyOccultist]

Wouldn't end how you think, Ulfric literally works for the Thalmor in exchange for them not challenging his position. They could easily turn his palace into a smoking crater with a handful of their strongest mages, but they don't because he keeps the Empire splintered enough for the Thalmor to stand a chance at destroying it and the world so they can reshape it in their image.

[@childishgrimm9610]

​@@EnbyOccultist He doesn't work for the Thalmor. He hates the Thalmor and actively fights to remove their influence from Skyrim. The entire civil war isn't about who owns Skyrim, Ulfric was fine with the empire before The Great War. He fights to remove Thalmor control over his lands so that the fighting he did in the great war and the people who died wouldn't be for nothing. The Thalmor leave him alive, however, because the fighting in Skyrim reduces the Empire's ability to muster up for the inevitable second great war. It's somewhat of a lose-lose situation to me.

[@EnbyOccultist]

@@childishgrimm9610 Ulfric is noted by the Embassy dossier to have been completely broken by Thalmor interrogators, their orders are the reason he caused a ruckus in Markarth. He is literally a Thalmor sleeper agent keeping the Empire divided so they can't regain the strength to continue the war.

[@richardmazkin9994]

it stuck me more as the Empire telling Ulfric to chill. To which, Ulfric rips his shirt off and shouts "I WILL NOT 'CALM DOWN.' WE'RE GONNA CRANK IT UP!!"

[@sirblank2384]

Wouldnt work working together would mean coming together under 1 banner which neither would agree to do for obvious reasons

[@Grim-ck1hw]

We live in a society where Skyrim players can debate more peacefully than our actual world leaders

[@everythingsalright1121]

To be fair real lives and money arent at stake here

[@smokesreefer9417]

it's messed up but so true.

[@Saber23]

@@everythingsalright1121 that means people should be debating 1000x more peacefully but instead we just get threats of nuclear war by the children people put in the global offices

[@Avarice297]

@@Saber23 You don't know too much about nucular wat threats, do you?

[@moviemaker2011z]

@@Avarice297 well China just threatened to use nuclear bombs on the U.S if we investigated the wuhan lab for their intentional release of covid19. So I would say he might know a bit more than you think.

[@markusallen102]

Battle-born: you! Grey-mane or Battle-born? Me, an orc: .....wtf? That guy from Windhelm: are you one of those “Skyrim for the nords” types Me:.... does no one have eyes here? Someone else probably: do you worship talos Me: [holds wabbajack and fireball spell] ........uhh

[@bigbuckss4303]

A lot of orcs side with the Imperials, so....

[@RobertDecker417]

The best part of that 'Are you one of those Skyrim for the Nords type' is that, if you are not a Nord, you can respond with "Yes, outsiders like me have no place in Skyrim".

[@PseudonymsAreGovnoYaEbalGoogle]

There is no reason in siding with Stormcloaks for non-nord players, Bethesda has failed in making a good opposing faction.

[@RobertDecker417]

@@PseudonymsAreGovnoYaEbalGoogle And you instantly blame the fact that you dont like the Stormcloaks on Bethesda? The Stormcloaks are slightly based on actual rebels (cant remember from which country and time period at this moment) that wanted to get rid of all foreigners. The Stormcloaks are a good opposing faction, you just don't like them.

[@PseudonymsAreGovnoYaEbalGoogle]

@@RobertDecker417 They are based on NSDAP, a one specific German party what blamed all of problems of Germany either on foreigners or on "internal enemy". Regardless I, personally, don't understand how anyone, except Nord, would want to join their questionable cause. Also 4th era Nords had forgotten their gods (especially Shor, their main god), they are now worship an Imperial deity - Tiber Septim (Talos), who basicly replaced old Ysmir (Wulthharth). So they are basically an Imperial hillbillies. They aren't Nords anymore. I personally don't like Stormcloacks not because they are racists or basically nazi (it's makes them very unappealing, though), I don't like them because their cause is stupid and because there is no reason for non Nords to join them. A Talos worshiping soldier-emperor (Commander who was proclaimed as emperor by his subordinates) would have been better alternative as opposing faction.

[@IamaDinosaur]

Me: *Installs Become High King Of Skyrim* Ysgramor and rest of sovngarde looking at the Last Dragonborn: "What a mad lad!"

[@wisemankugelmemicus1701]

@Gallowyn no mod like that

[@wisemankugelmemicus1701]

Too bad Become High King is kinda... Basic.

[@mugsyy]

Wisemankugel Memicus is there any mods like it that are better? I’ve been itching to become high king or jarl since I started playing

[@wisemankugelmemicus1701]

@@mugsyy I wish.

[@mugsyy]

Gallowyn I forget what it’s called exactly but is it rebuild Helgen or riverhelm?

[@hugoboncar]

To me Ulfric has good reasons to start this rebellion, but doesn't seem to be able to see passed his short term ambitions. If the Empire is already weak enough that it has to bend the knee to the Aldmeri Dominion, imagine its state after losing the support of a whole province. The elves won't stop their conquest after taking Cyrodiil. They're going to keep on taking and taking, and even if, for a time, Skyrim will be left alone thanks to their geographical location, soon, their neighbours will be locked in a war with the Aldmeri Dominion and then, Skyrim will have to fight AGAIN against the elves. Ulfric is delaying a war he will have to fight eventually, but by delaying it he weakens his future ability to fight it. Bro needs to take a deep breath and a big ass chill pill.

[@ivercingetorix1367]

But skyrim in that time will be far stronger than if it were having its resources, silver, and warriors extracted by the empire.

[@highway6098]

@@ivercingetorix1367 True but probably not enough to defend against the dominion, they could broker a peace but after the war, even if the stormcloaks would win, most resources would have been wasted in the civil war and they'd need a lot of time to build a strong defense. But considering they'd win mainly because of dragonborn the dominion would hesitate wasting tons of resources on having someone shout them to death for another 10 years, the dragonborn could quite easily turn that tide so I guess in one way the stormcloaks do have quite good odds, without dragonborn though no shot.

[@TrainerRed519]

​@highway6098 I've always felt it was a good idea for skyrim to break off after all Hammerfell held off the elves and are a direct border to skyrim. Stormcloaks leave the Empire strengthen themselves up and join up with hammerfell two powerful nations known for there warriors

[@enbeast8350]

​@@highway6098 That's all assuming the Dragonborn sides with the Stormcloaks. Take the DB out of the scenario entirely (since them joining turns the tides of the Civil War and TES doesn't have a canon winner, we shouldn't use our gameplay choices as a guide of what 100% will happen). Stormcloaks vs Imperials alone, Imperials would win hands down. They aren't currently sending their full forces to deal with Ulfric. Even IF Ulfric managed to break away, what foreign support would he have for supplies and trade?

[@milkduds1001]

@@highway6098 keep in mind the logistical strain on the Dominion to successfully invade Skyrim. The Dominion would have to, at minimum, defeat the Empire (which would be costly for the Dominion), and they’d have to devote large amounts of Soldiers and Logistics to hold occupied territory (all the while fighting against rebellions and insurgencies). All the while, a victorious Ulfric will be arming, training, and preparing for war. By the time Ulfric declares war, the Dominion would be exhausted from a second Great War, have their supply lines stretched across Tamriel, and facing insurgencies and rebellions all across their occupied territories. Whatever numerical advantage they had would be gone.

[@elvirag4197]

The Thalmor Dossier did also mention that they didnt want either side to win, just endlessly go on. They wanted to avoid stormcloaks winning as well.

[@driftingdruid]

the dossier said that Ulfric is a dormant asset to the Thalmor, and that Imperial victory at Helgen would've also hindered their efforts to prolong this civil war, softening up both Imperials and Nords through a war of attrition. they just want to avoid any victory, or truce, in the civil war at all wish we could confront Ulfric about the dossier on himself, maybe get him to change course and remember who the real enemy of Skyrim is, but such content was not developed or implemented 😮‍💨

[@Old_Joseph]

@@driftingdruidthat’s not what it says, read it again.

[@seaballads11]

@@Old_Joseph it says exactly what he said. I just checked.

[@arynrowland862]

@@driftingdruid He’s only an “asset” because of his rebellion against the Empire. He’s not feeding the Thalmor info, or contributing to their cause. Once either side wins, he ceases to become an asset anymore, because the war is over.

[@driftingdruid]

@@arynrowland862 but his temper has proven easy enough for them to emotionally manipulate, just like Elenwen did when she tortured him. possible that the slander said to him under the duress of torture was a factor in his actions during the Markarth incident, and possible that the Thalmor can manipulate him again in the future

[@ItsDaKoolaidDude]

I actually noted and realized something: Eventually and regardless of who you support, that side will have to eventually deal with a Dragonborn that acquiesces to the dragon blood in them, calling for gathering even more power and dominion of their own. Remember that Paarthurnax mentions this: "We were made to dominate. The will to power is in our blood. You feel it in yourself, do you not?" This seems to tell me that the Dragonborn will look upon either Emperor Mede or Ulfric Stormcloak and start seeing them as the lesser and weaker. Much like Alduin's own 'army' he held significant position and power, and all the dragons (except Paarthurnax) heeded his will, but the moment Alduin was thrown aside and beaten by a mere mortal Dragonborn, they fled and questioned his will and power, as noted by Odahviing. Meaning this: Side with the Imperials and you'll at least give Ulfric the rite to enter Sovrengarde because he dueled and fought with a Dragonborn in an impossible to win fight, which is possibly a Nord's dream. But in return, the Dragonborn will look at Emperor Mede as a weakling ruler that is barely holding on to prepare for the Second Great War, and they may make a move that establishes himself either equal or greater to Mede. On the other hand: Side with the Stormcloaks and you will be hailed and beloved by the Nords and the Imperials would (in a wide variable possibility) start abandoning posts or loyalty due to Dragonborn status and legend tied to the Septim line, as Dragonborns were just as essential to the Empire as they were to the Nords. However, once the civil war is over, Ulfric would have to constantly watch his entire being around the Dragonborn, because soon enough he'll be seen as an incompetent and seeing that his Thu'um is weaker and his physical power barely able to stop them, the Dragonborn may begin to plot and backstab Ulfric for the position of High King. *_"Dov wahlaan fah rel." (Dragons were made to dominate)_* And who better terrifying than the very Last Dragonborn with two dragons, one of which immortal, at their beck and call?

[@insaincaldo]

The only thing Mede has to deal with is his cancel wanting him dead. Otherwise this makes some sense.

[@karlplessius1300]

Ulfric may actually help the Last Dragonborn take the empire though.

[@chibicthulhu4382]

Shit can it be lore in the next game that the Dragonborn overthrew the empire after gaining control over the stormcloaks and Through the Dragonborns might and tactical prowess he pushed the dominion back to there stupid little island.

[@colinstacy2085]

ItsDaKoolaidDude me a kahjiit “how the fuck did the emperor shaq his way into my bloodline?”

[@Raptor_Ren]

Chibi Cthulhu I doubt they’d totally eliminate the Thalmor by next game, but since the next game is likely in Hammerfell, which left the Empire, they could easily say the Dragonborn took over the Empire and is currently fighting the Thalmor.

[@andrewanderson5537]

All the imperials and Nords fighting each other and then there’s me just sitting around as a lizard dude.

[@michellecameron7130]

Andrew Anderson *cat

[@evervirescent]

sitting outside the windhelm city walls as a lizard dude

[@admiralyawn3106]

Just chilling smoking hist and injecting skooma

[@vestty5802]

Andrew Anderson the imperial army has all races in its ranks

[@ra_alf9467]

Me : (as a Redguard) Looking for my friend Nazeem, just look at this leather armor

[@JollySunbroShorts]

I understand ulfrics actions, I just wish that he wouldve been more reasonable and willing to compromise with the young high king. Maybe he could have presented his case and the empire could have atleast bought time for them to reach full strength and unite against the thalmor. I just wish that there was a third option for these two sides because I can understand why they both did what they though was right. Rather than causing a civil war, ulfric could've became an imperial general gaining trust from the high king with his strategies and brute strength. With influence over the young high king ulfric could have persuaded him to cut ties with the thalmor once their full military strength was reached.

[@richardmazkin9994]

Sadly, i don't think it ever would have worked. Ulfric seems to have deluded himself into believing that the Empire WANTS to stay under Thalmor control. His lack of forethought is also a big concern. The Forsworn situation in the Reach also acts as a dark parody of Ulfric's fight. The Forsworn have as much claim to the Reach as The Stormcloaks have to Skyrim.

[@ecthelionofthefountain3769]

​​​@@richardmazkin9994 Sybille Stentor says that in meetings, Ulfric spoke in words just shy of treason but Torygg never spoke to Ulfric about it, even though he agreed with him and would have gone for independance if Ulfric asked. Instead Torygg did nothing and made Ulfric believe he was just another Imperial puppet. The Forsworn may have claim to Skyrim, but so do the Falmer and Dwemer and unlike Ulfric, went straight to kiliinh at the earliest chance.

[@JoseAlejandro-xc6fb]

Dude, Ulfric already did a political speech during Torygg's moot to precisely make him advocate for independence. But what did Torygg do? He simply kept his sympathies for the Stormcloaks in secret and continued to support the Empire openly while the Thalmor were raping the Nords and Skyrim and the Empire was ravaging and squeezing Skyrim's resources. Knowing all this, tell me. You're Ulfric, a veteran that fought for the Empire and has been betrayed by them during the Markarth Incident when they used him as a scapegoat, not to mention the fact that they have squeezing Skyrim for their own benefit and also are being the lapdogs of the Thalmor. Tell me, with all this background, do you actually would've approached Torygg to convince him (for a second time) to be independent, and thinking that wasn't going to support you because again, Torygg's sympathies were only known by Torygg? You and I know the realistic answer.

[@JoseAlejandro-xc6fb]

​@@richardmazkin9994he's not believing that, the thing is that he realizes that the Empire won't be able to recover or retaliate against the Thalmor in their lapdog state, plus the fact that the imperial recovery has been all but efficient during these 25 years. He knows that this empire is only a doom for Skyrim. Lack of forethought? The man is more aware and pragmatic about the situation of the empire and skyrim than many and he has proved in the game several times how of a good military and political leader he is. He doesn't lack of forethought, he's clearly very lucid for the situation for everyone who stopped to analyze his character. And comparing the forsworn with the Stormcloaks is very delusional. The Stormcloaks aren't daedra worshipers, neither are child killers or conspire with hagravens, and they don't act as terrorists with no formation or logistics. The Stormcloaks are organized, appointed to rule a country and not make chaos, and led by a competent and pragmatic leader.

[@ecthelionofthefountain3769]

@@JoseAlejandro-xc6fb I agree. Ulfric's decision was rational and well made given the information he had at hand. The Empire has become too weak to even feasibly beat the Thalmor and now even protect their own provinces and are just robbing Skyrim at this point, as Ulfric says about the mines in Markarth and the Thalmor being allowed to freely operate across Tamriel allows them gather pawns and traitors or execute even those in power with mininal evidence.

[@MYuee]

I always join the imperials or ignore the quest completely. Back when I first played it I chose the stormcloaks, but the battle of whiterun left a bitter taste. Replacing balgruuf with vignar was hard and some of reactions from the people in whiterun made me rethink my decisions.

[@morrigankasa570]

I always join the Stormcloaks because there are larger numbers of corrupt Empire Loyalists who are connected to the Thalmor. Yes the Whiterun situation I disliked, they should've allowed a speech check to get Balgruuf to join Ulfric. As for the Torygg situation Ulfric simply followed old Nord tradition.

[@joshstory7951]

@@morrigankasa570 the thalmor are connected to the empire but ulfric is a puppet of theres as well. Tbh all sides truly are wrong its sad the crumbling of it but ulfric is a racist and not a good leader who rules with an iron fist the thalmor are the true enemy the stormcloaks are people with good intentions but terrible execution of there ideals

[@morrigankasa570]

@@joshstory7951 Ulfric isn't delibretly working with the Thalmor though. But the old lady Jarl from Morthal is at the Embassy, same for Maven Black-Briar, and I think the young Jarl of Falkreath. At least the Stormcloak Jarls aren't involved with the Thalmor like that so, still say the Stormcloaks are generally better.

[@joshstory7951]

@@morrigankasa570 yes you are correct but the problem with the stormcloaks for me is there numbers and ulfric as a leader the empire does not like the thalmor they did the pact to try to create peace i do see the fault they have which is that talos is not allowed to be worshiped but it does not matter he isn't doing it deliberately he cannot see that he is playing right into there hand to weaken the empire but honeslty thinking about it. the stormcloaks are the goat in this one beside the racism the empire took it up the ass from the thalmor and if you want freedom and independence of Skyrim the empire needs to leave Skyrim its been infiltrated so hard by the thalmor they know all there weaknesses, they stand no chance against the elves anymore uflric fights for the nords. Talos said We need something new the empire struggled greatly at the oblivion crisis they also left the dunmar in morrowind to die so I agree with you lol.He just needs more stormcloaks the empire isnt even at 1/4 of its full capacity in the war with him and they still stomp him.

[@morrigankasa570]

@@joshstory7951 perhaps, but even the Imperials/Empire has prejudice against Beast Races and occasionally Orcs. At least the few Stormcloaks that are prejudice are equally prejudice against everyone who isn't a Nord. Far better to be equally prejudice against everyone then select groups. Also being the Dragonborn you are technically equal to at least 50 regular soldiers so by joining the Stormcloaks you greatly improve the odds and Ulfric is fairly honorable. For example; Ulfric won't attack Solitude if the Emperor is still alive/wedding situation, he also let's Jarl Elisif remain in charge of Solitude, he also follows the honorable old system of the Moot before declaring himself King officially, additionallyy he offers Tullius and Legate Rikka mercy but they refuse so that's why we kill them at the end of the war questline, and finally he honorably arrests the enemy Jarls rather then just killing them.

[@chaos7227]

If possible can you use maps in your videos when talking about locations, like when you talked about skyrims neighbouring lands.

[@KGBBooks]

Since release, I’ve always been astounded that players have no moral qualms about joining the Thieves Guild and Dark Brotherhood, but there’s so much debate about the civil war. Professional thief and murderer? No problem. Soldiers who throw around racial slurs? AYO HOLD UP. That says a lot about us. Whether good or bad, you be the judge.

[@thoruszwolf4153]

With the Thieves Guild and Dark Brotherhood, there is no doubt that they are bad people. With the civil war, things are not so clear. Some contend that blind obedience to a corrupt and oppressive government should be maintained, because they've done so for so long, or that its strength makes it right. While others believe that the rights and freedom of the people must take precedence over the decrees of the government. ... who is right? depends on your mind set. one sides Hero is often the other sides villain.

[@vicieux7789]

im a criminal but i wont be caught dead being a racist

[@IzuTenshi]

@@vicieux7789 TALK TO 'EM

[@mbazzanella6400]

There's definitely weight to this insight. That said- those guilds have no mission statement to govern Skyrim or determine the future of Tamriel. The outcome of the Civil War simply has much greater effects on the world as a whole and is therefore more worthy of moral examination. Indeed, the Brotherhood in particular could be a major player in the political theater given their ability to assassinate the Emperor, but likely maintains a stern philosophy of political apathy and neutrality.

[@KGBBooks]

@@mbazzanella6400 What’s more, I’ve noticed that people who strongly oppose imperialism in their real life politics will often argue that the Empire is the right side of the civil war. I’ve played both the Imperial and Stormcloak side. The Stormcloaks “feel” more right to me, and I always have more fun fighting for them. I think it comes down to me having a deep streak of the “You can’t tell me what to do,” attitude.

[@dudel3565]

I feel that I need to side with the Empire because my good guy Dragonborns are loyal to Balgruuf first. Assuming that he is the first Yarl that the DB deals with and is welcomed by, I would feel terrible betraying him.

[@nojusticejustus2912]

Feck balgruff he let the altmer come into white run and arrest n detain thorald grey mane. Wtf?? Then he let saadia a hammerfell redguard altmer sympathizer stay in the bannered mare. He needs yuh to slay the dragon , he's playing both sides until ulfric calls him out with the ax. And finally he asks yuh to talk to his child for him. He cant father right, he can't Nord right and he can't properly defend white run he compromised himself and his rank. He's no real friend he uses yuh. Soon as the stormcloaks take over white run balgruuf gets pissed off and verbally disses yuh everytime yuh go to the blue palace. Not to forget he let sorry a$$ maven black briar set up sabjorn and straight up high jack the meadery. Yuh don't want black briar meadery making honningbrew mead. Enjoy!!

[@yamumhasthebiggay2582]

He literally just made you thane because it's politically convenient

[@Noodle177]

i feel like lore wise, hearing that the dragonborn sided with the empire because they like balgruuf would be the funniest thing ever

[@colt9836]

​@@Noodle177Frankly, it would make the most sense imo. The DB is a literal demigod, a fragment of Akatosh Himself. Why would a petty civil war ever concern a being of such power? Only the Deadra and other dragons (plus DBs) can even hope to match them.

[@Devessel999]

I’d like to think the dragon born had his own beliefs and lifestyle before before meeting bulgruuf. We simply did a task for white run and informed them about the attacks. The dragon born should be loyal to himself and his own beliefs before anyone else including bulgruuf.

[@MellSayzHi]

I feel a bit conflicted, I'll admit the very first time I played I sided with the stormcloaks cause 1. The empire was trying to kill me and 2. I felt for their cause to retain Talos as a god. But, after completing the civil war as a stormcloak, esp since I chose dunmer as my first character I felt....icky. tbh it was Jarl Balgruuf and the siege of whiterun that changed my mind. I respected Balgruuf and when I learned I had to depose him I was shocked. I do not discount Ulfric's military prowess I just wish that we could have joined forces, spurn the thalmor and let Skyrim be independent. Tho I really didn't like the racism against the Dunmer and the beast-kind which I typically play. Kinda sucks when you literally kill the world eater and some bastard calls you a rug

[@chasewillian9010]

Lol, that ending was funny. I've got no Idea what character to play. Any suggestions?

[@jasonhymes3382]

I really don't get why people dislike the racism so much in a video game world in which races are real and so distinct that they literally have different skills and attributes ect ect. For example Khajit, my favorite race couldn't even wear shoes in Morrowind. To say racism is wrong in the world of the elder scrolls is ridiculous to me. The Empire should just allow Skyrim to secede so that both do not weaken the power of human kind.

[@hobbesgoblin2691]

@@jasonhymes3382 if that is so, who are the high elves to act so to the kajjit, both are nearly destroyed by the sloads, and attacked by maromar.

[@Brandon-1996]

Getting offended as a cat-man when a man-man buffoon calls you a rug. I'll hazard a guess that buffoon wasn't one of your new allies, was it? : ' )

[@burntcurlyfryd7729]

I do think that the racism makes sense in the elder scrolls but is it that hard to make someone not call you a rug after you save their life and the lives of their loved ones

[@brysonburnette2573]

You know a game is good when it’s 8 years old and people are still having heated discussions over elements of it’s plot/lore

[@keladwynsolkas]

Proud American We’ll theorize and wonder until the scribes and lore keepers of Nirn deliver to us concrete answers. At which point, we will have more questions at the ready.

[@jonalley2946]

Skyrim is a good game, but the main quest seems to short and no that good as Oblivions. Sure Skyrim has better graphics but I only care how good the story is, and plus the Blades aren't destroyed.

[@Robzilla-Robotron]

I only fought with the storm cloaks because Ulfrick looks like my dad.

[@anwardaud]

then your dad should teach you some thu'um

[@t.fairuz29]

Then your dad must be hot err.. should teach you some thu'um

[@discreetvortex8237]

169nice

[@iziizii]

The best reason there is

[@brian5899]

That’s extremely valid

[@hardcaselj111]

I like the idea that the empire is just waiting and building it's strength to crush the Aldmeri

[@GenericUsername-qp1ww]

kinda hard for a military infilitrated by AD infiltrator's to come up with any decent war plans that the AD don't already know about. just sayin....

[@enbeast8350]

I like that idea too. Then the Stormcloaks have to fuck up that plan by existing and weakening the Empire with the civil war just like the Thalmor want

[@mantazerted7155]

Thats exactly what the empire is doing. If you side with the storm cloaks and go to kill Tullies before he dies he tells Ulfric that he's doing exactly what the dominion wants. Which is getting rid of the only thing stopping the dominion from taking skyrim the empire

[@robbedoes8619]

Yea, cuz the first time, fully prepared, they got their asses kicked. Weakened now, they’ll surely win…

[@kratosorokai1546]

even though the empire tried to kill you hadvar makes me join the empire everytime since he is a really cool dude who helps you out

[@imperialtrooper927]

he's also a family man which is a plus

[@patheticbadger3478]

It's not even the empire who tries to kill you. Just a corrupt imperial captain.

[@blstcx8224]

So is ralof man

[@Werrf1]

@@patheticbadger3478 Not even corrupt - impatient. When you read between the lines, it's clear that the Imperials are rushing to get Ulfric and his supporters dead in a hurry before the Thalmor can pull some bullshit and spring them. Tullius probably told the captain "Crap, it's the Thalmor...just get them all executed, quickly. I'll hold the Thalmor off."

[@reftu1489]

@@Werrf1 Damn that makes much more sense than the "a corrupt imperial did it".

[@bluelick7578]

Still wished there was a “screw both your factions” faction so that we could trow our hat in

[@thoruszwolf4153]

There is, its called the Thalmor... it's the wrong choice though

[@veveronshade3409]

It would be really fun if we could become leader of few schools / groups and then have quest like "True kings arival" where we must collect resources and army and then destroy both parties or few of our choice . I would use mages + assasins and theefs to simply kill all Thalmor and then help Empire but leave few cities to myself as.... Payment .

[@Sullyvar]

Yes, but then there would be the question of which side wins?

[@veveronshade3409]

@@Sullyvar well.... I would love if we had four options + DLC for other regions . First is Empire , second is Ulfrik , next is Talmor and last is our own where we gather all guilds under control of our MC and go on war against the world for becoming the overlord !

[@jasonhymes3382]

@@veveronshade3409 I swear elder scrolls fans are the most autistic people. Yeah just make a dlc including other regions like its nothing. Hey why don't they just make elder scrolls a virtual reality simulator so you can just live it!

[@SiegmundXD7]

the dossier that the “hands off” approach quote comes from also mentions that ulfric was broken by aldmeri interrogators and released to deliberately bring about the markarth incident. his image is forever tainted. while ulfric would best lead an offensive to assault aldmeri territory, all his momentum could end up wasted by imperial forces trying to halt his march to reach hostile territory in the first place

[@sirwaylonthe1st239]

Altmeri, not Aldmeri. Big difference.

[@SiegmundXD7]

@@sirwaylonthe1st239 I know the difference and meant the word I used. the aldmeri dominion is the faction that has been at war with the empire

[@SiegmundXD7]

@@secretname4190 if you actually read the dossier they had on him, they let ulfric walk out and return to skyrim for the express purpose of introducing political instability to skyrim

[@Saggy_bones]

“I think I’ll go with the fuck both your factions faction”

[@zenthr]

The best option for a Thalmor supporter.

[@ladyselin35]

@@zenthr No? you wont let one side get stronger.

[@christianleblanc5109]

I see you’re a man of culture as well

[@2bussy]

goddamn skyrim fence sitters

[@justawhiteguywitharocketla590]

Gay marriage- yeah pfff who wouldnt wanna live in a reasonable relationship

[@oliverstianhugaas7493]

Jarl Elisif: *If we could get nords to SWEETROLL too the polls we can win the moot election*

[@MrZealot112]

Wauw😂

[@jacopomazzo4949]

Dovahkiin: *pointing at Elisif* *John Mulaney voice* THAT'S MY WIFE

[@kingdavey90]

Pokemon Go to the polls OOOF.

[@joynelbonetdelgado4952]

What does that makes Tullius? The Bernie Sanders of Skyrim? Oh i can see it already, Legate Rikke is the AOC lol

[@kingdavey90]

@@Nathan-mf2yz President Jarl Donrik Trumpcloak

[@gianniwilliams8811]

"Why'd you join the Imperials?" Me: "Those damn Elves." "Fair enough."

[@Quirrel]

@Whiterun Guard We got some funny milk drinkers here.

[@williamstark6162]

@Whiterun Guard yet the empire bent a knee to the thalmor when they were pushing the elven armies out

[@jacobphillips980]

William Stark the aldemeri dominion isnt strong strictly because of the high elves. Its the other races that support the high elves. The high elves were the one who struggled the most when the oblivion crisis occurred

[@lukeklo]

@Whiterun Guard both stormcloaks and imperials are thalmor puppets

[@Local_commentor]

Me playing as a High elf out running every enemy

[@takkarsasori8961]

imagine how tired our characters are since hardly anyone sleeps we just wait

[@laman123lam]

extreme endurance

[@robass5111]

Am I the only one renting a room in a tavern? Damn...

[@redace148]

I have a dumb head canon. In my fake little scenario, at the final battle when the Imperials take Windhelm, after Ulfric fights us and is knelt on the ground in defeat, I imagine either us as the Dragonborn or Tullius as a fellow soldier and war hero would extend a hand to Ulfric and convince him and the Stormcloaks to join the Empire and begin planning a way to fight back against the Aldmeri Dominion. I know that would probably never happen but still. I wish there was a way to spare him or Tullius.

[@driftingdruid]

same, don't want these men to die, just stop fighting each other

[@andryuu_2000]

Exactly but Ulfric is still going to face execution or jail

[@Burning_Alive]

By the time you're that point it's too late for him after everything he has done, he has to face retribution, you just don't come back from that. I just hate how shallow his judgement and temper is when it comes to dealing with other races and issues that need solving, and you know if Balgruf would side with Ulfric than it would be 100% obvious who the right choice is because it's such a large gamble that the legion in the disgusting state it's in has any chance at all at keeping the Thalmor out of their lands while I have zero doubt the Nords under their own government could easily repel attack after attack and even begin to conquer the weakened staging grounds their attackers use to stage their attacks into Skyrim after they decimate the opposing force that pushed into Skyrim but I don't know if I have the strength to betray a friend and condone the brash and often stupid actions/decisions that would result from a governing body lead by Ulfric.

[@keithstone8693]

Ulfric doesn't care about any of that. He's using the rebellion as a guise to claim power. All he wants is the Throne of the High King of Skyrim. The edicts of the White Gold Concordant are nothing more than the justification to rally people to his cause to claim said throne. He is a power hungry , short sighted fool.

[@GoblinLord]

Small factual error, the war is possible not specifically because the Empire is that weak, but because the Aldmeri were sabotaging the Empire from stopping the war, they blocked the pale pass with an avalanche

[@jayboiisknackerd]

@@spasdelev1284 not necessarily. Because the legion that was going to skyrim is a separate one. So the imperial force on the Southern border is the same. Funny enough by sabotaging the pail pass the domion will now have to suppsedly deal with 3 legions in cyrodiil instead of just 2. That's esuming that thay don't hold off on invading until the supposed 3rd Legion clear the pass and march on skyrim

[@mivapusa]

You realise the Empire has a standing army of 108.000 professional soldiers, with more than that in auxiliary forces, yes? And that's the _standing_ army. More than twice that number can be levied and trained in a mere year.

[@GoblinLord]

I'm also gonna add that the Empire is stated to have better armies overall and the dominant reason they lost was because the Aldmeri Dominion was literally cheating by using the Orb of Vaermina to track their movements. Then the Empire took that away but were weakened too much, the Altmer literally won only in a battle of attrition and cheating, if none of that happened, I'm pretty sure the empire would have one and none of this would have happened. The empire is regaining their strength, that's why the Dominion is so sure there will be a second Great War

[@evan9180]

@@GoblinLord you can't cheat in war.

[@GoblinLord]

@@evan9180 I mean, technically you can, anything that would be considered an unfair advantage, plus it's also easy to consider it cheating since they were using a daedric artifact despite them so highly praising the Aedra. Also, if someone brings up "All is fair in love and war" I'm gonna shoot that down now with "Genova Convention"

[@darkgerry92]

Now that I have time to comment, I believe that a possible alliance between the Yokudans(Redguards) and Nords might be a possibility. Also a very scary alliance

[@MatthewBaxter88]

I always think if the Stormcloaks won, they would form a new Empire with the Yokudans, such as a second Nordic Empire ans claim High Rock

[@unslaadkrosis3489]

The Nords are too xenophobic and isolationist to do something intelligent like that.

[@tiodosalgado5860]

@@unslaadkrosis3489 but pacts were made before, the ebonheart pact is a example of it. The thalmor in already rooted in the empire killing it from the inside, just remenber the emperor dies by the end of the dark brotherhood questline, this will weaken the empire futhermore...

[@jackmeoff2367]

It's really likely. They may be a bunch of barbarians but they aren't that stupid and the nords and redguards have much in common now

[@jacopomazzo4949]

The Redguards were saved by the Empire during the Great War and had their indipendeance recognized by the Empire keeping good relationships, they're not close to the Stormcloaks at all.

[@gryphon3783]

11:50 So we just gonna ignore the Stormcloak with a damn arrow sticking out his beard?

[@mfs-3kiryu592]

Common illlness.

[@diegodd3324]

Its just the wind

[@WolfangStudios73]

Oh, that's Halnard Arrow-Beard, don't mind him

[@sinistergaming7995]

16:25 theres an arrow in ur butt

[@DayLateGamerWill]

First time I played Skyrim, I went Stormcloaks; heres why - Imperials tried to murder me "just because". I was at the wrong place at the wrong time, and when they realized it they were like "oh.... meh, off with his head anyway". So, if they were willing to kill me literally over nothing, then that can't be good. Secondly, Ulfric was in the same boat as me (er, carriage?) when we were being transported to our supposed deaths, which made me second-guess what crimes (if any) Ulfric committed. After that, I watched videos and seems like a HUGE percentage of players went Imperial and I couldn't figure out why! Then, I watched a video explaining Ulfrics hot-headedness, as well as his war crimes, and how the Imperials were pros at governing. After that, I thought siding with the Stormcloaks was a mistake, so it makes me happy that with this video I'm not the only one who thought go Stormcloaks with weighing the options, pros, and cons as well as circumstances and behaviors of each upon first meeting them

[@villekuronen6242]

yeah it was pro move from Titus Mede to surrender and allow ban of Talos worship without even consulting Jarls of Skyrim about it....

[@alexmowery8359]

They were trying to speed up the execution to because the thalmor were there trying to get Ulfric free.

[@AverageChoomEnjoyer]

The Thalmor specifically list Ulfric as a dormant asset, and their desire for the war to continue to be inconclusive. ​The best chance humans have is to unite under one banner (empire) rebuild forces and drive the elves back to where they come from! @@villekuronen6242

[@CaptainEffort]

When I first played Skyrim I was pro Stormcloak since the Empire tried to kill me, and because usually the “Empire” are the bad guys in games. After playing through the game once or twice I started siding with the Empire. Stormcloaks are racists and the Empire needs as many people as it can get in order to defeat the Aldmeri Dominion. Then, after around 5k hours and way too much time delving into ES lore, I went back to the Stormcloaks. For way too many reasons to get into here, but mostly because they’re a colonizing foreign power and the stormcloaks simply want independence. Then you get into stuff like Hammerfell doing the same thing and managing to hold off the Thalmor just fine, the fact that Skyrim has absurd natural defenses and the Thalmor would literally need to beat the Empire just to get to them, and that a major theme of Skyrim is the Empire’s downfall. The fact that they’re a shadow of their former selves, that all of their territories have been conquered or rebelled against them, that the Emperor has been assassinated, that the logo of the game is literally a crumbling Imperial emblem. Imo it just makes sense that this game represents the fall of the empire, so even outside of what I personally think is “best”, this outcome just seems to be the most likely. Plus having the empire win and simply go back to the status quo seems like a poor choice narratively. To have the rebellion effectively be pointless. Edit: There’s also stuff like the Empire suffering from problems like White Man’s Burden, which tbh is just gross to see and makes the Stormcloak’s racism less of a deal breaker, since the Empire is effectively the same way, just more arrogant about it. Tullius literally says the Nords are barbarians and that they need the Empire’s help to become civilized. That’s about as textbook as it gets.

[@robbedoes8619]

So you decide with the Imperials, who allow the Thalmor in their territory, active racism against Nords and Kajit, instead of the Stormcloaks who kill Thalmor agents on sight?

[@jcarroll7371]

I'm always so torn on which side to choose but in the end I gotta stick with Jarl Bulgruff

[@chinwyian]

Whiterun best city in skyrim

[@napalm2357]

@@chinwyian I think Solitude is second best

[@thebeaver8456]

I wish Bethesda gave us a third opinion were the Dovkin can take the book he/she can find in the Thalmor embassy that says, "if Ulfric wins we will betray the empire" and bring it to both General Tullus and Ulfric. This would open up a third ending to the civil war were the both sides team up with the Dovkin and kick the Thalmor out of Skyrim. Then the Dovkin would be the high king. Edit: thanks for the likes everybody!

[@SwedetasticGames]

That would have been cool, however, I do believe a Dragonsoul-consuming Dragonborn who essentially has conquered an entire realm (destroyed the various bandit bands, ended a vampire dynasty, slain another Dragonborn who by all rights (lore wise) simply got too greedy and overconfident to let a less experienced and less knowledgable Dragonborn destroy him, KILLED THE DRAGON GODS MANIFESTATION, and single-handedly determined the outcome of a civil war, not to mention wielding/safekeeping a ton of Daedric and Aedric artifacts) would be far from a good ruler for a few reasons: 1) Power tends to corrupt, and absolute power corrupts absolutely. 2) The power vacuum at thier (hopefully) eventuall death would lead to such unimaginable conflicts it makes your mind become awestruck. 3) With such power you would likely end up ascending to either godhood or carving out a piece of oblivion eventually, leading to yet further conflict.

[@TechnoBacon55]

Also, how does that make sense? It would drive both factions to fight even more, as the Empire doesn't want Ulfric to win so the Thalmor doesn't turn against them, thus they can deal with them later in secret, and the Stormcloaks want to win so the Empire gets even weaker when the Thalmor turn against them.

[@thebeaver8456]

@@SwedetasticGames or maybe just have the player pick who rules.

[@thebeaver8456]

@@TechnoBacon55 I get where your coming from but I think there's two simple answers to what you said. First the player should require to a extremely high speech skill to persuade them both to join forces. Two. Why keep a pointless war going when you could join forces and increase both sides chances to defeat the Thalmor

[@darthbricksempire3606]

Jonathan Borg Yeah like the death of Alexander the Great. The Dragonborn would need an equally powerful heir to keep stability

[@tupacshinji605]

Bethesda's loremasters did an excellent job of writing a story with so many twists & turns that it is actually very easy to strongly take one side or the other (or indeed, to stay neutral) & even to completely switch sides for the purposes of roleplaying. Of course, this has been done deliberately to ensure maximum replayability for the game. Fudgemuppet here have done the best, most balanced summary of the history/lore surrounding this question I have seen yet (& I've seen a lot). Great job guys!

[@haydenhill28]

It’s the imperials. At the end of the stormcloak campaign Tullius says “this is what they wanted” referring to the thalmor. But, if you side with the imperials, he says “now the only thing we have to worry about is them” again referring to the thalmor.

[@Aemond2024]

So you take his words as unbiased lmao.

[@Buzzy_Bland]

@@Aemond2024 It may be biased but Tullius has proven himself to be the kind of man who can look past what’s in front of him and see the big picture. Ulfric, not so much. The only reason the Thalmor are in Skyrim and getting away with hunting talos worshippers is because he made a massive open display that drew the Dominion’s attention.

[@M1DA5_]

@@Aemond2024 He literally tells you the empire is gearing up to fight the thalmor again, and that's why they aren't sending as many reinforcements to Skyrim

[@breadcrumb2833]

@@Aemond2024 Why do you think the Empire only sent ONE legion (and an underequipped one at that) to Skyrim? Because the rest of them are at the Dominion's border gearing up for another war. Christ, I'm now convinced that the difference between an Imperial and Stormcloak supporter is actually reading the lore.

[@nocthemedic2951]

@@M1DA5_ the empire has had 30 years to repopulate. Its legions are fully recovered. If they wanted to go to war they could have done so YEARS ago. You know, given that humans repopulate faster than elves. But no war has been declared by the empire The empire going to war with the dominion is a huge cope

[@larsspargur97]

*Talks for almost 4 minutes* “Hey guys it’s Dru here, and welcome back”

[@mystik_owl]

BALGRUUF FOR HIGH KING OF SKYRIM!!!

[@thoruszwolf4153]

Why? he's a terrible Jarl, he'd be a horrible King

[@rezaruki3912]

He's swag too swag to be the king

[@cassidycody5833]

Eh Balgruuf isn't good at keeping his own kids in line

[@theunfallenwarrior6046]

The ballin balgruuf!!

[@jak6101]

Idk hate me judge me but I still think that Elisif should be High Queen. don’t @ me

[@ryklatortuga4146]

"To crush your enemies, to see them driven before you, and to hear the lamentations of their women." M'aiq the Barbarian

[@jace_519]

The nords invading Skyrim “what killed the falmer? The ice age!”

[@ApethGrader]

That's a quote from the original Conan the barbarian comic.

[@CeliMe007]

Empire: yo my dudes, we have to outlaw Talos to appease these stupid elves. But we're only doing it so we can rebuild our forces under their noses. So you can still worship Talos but do it on the down low for now, k? ULFRIC: F*CK YOU I LOVE TALOS!

[@miguelcondadoolivar5149]

Nords are not exactly known for their subtlety. They would never broadly accept such underhanded tactics, especially when presented the way they were (Jarl Ballin mentioned coffers of Imperial gold being sent to the Jarls to encourage them to enforce the new rules, which explains why so many Imperial-aligned Jarls are corrupt and why Stormcloak Jarls tend to be principled old people). It's just how Nords are, just like Redguards. The Empire underestimated the willful nature of its human citizens, while the Thalmor understood their enemies perfectly.

[@jacopomazzo4949]

No. I'm not going to start ANOTHER Stormcloack vs Imperial discussion in the comments. I'll respect any opinion and anyway it's just a game and-THE REBELS LIKE TO FORGET THAT IT'S THE EMPIRE WHO KEEPS THE DOMINION OUT OF SKYRIM

[@jacopomazzo4949]

Another thing is often forgot is that yes, the Empire is not at the glory days. But the Dominion main army under Lord Naarfin has been completely destroyed in the Battle Of The Red Ring. The Thalmor would have pushed to destroy humanity if they could, but at the slow reproductive rate they have, the Imperials will regain strenght much quicker if allowed. The Dominion IS in a strong position, but it's not strong like it once was: in fact they lost all the things they used to win before (the surprise advantage, the plotting, the army of Lord Naarfin...) also Ulfric is a great warrior but a very poor tactician. Tullius is a tactician

[@straightpimpin888]

Damned faithless Imperials.

[@Jimmyinvictus]

@@jacopomazzo4949 I agree, but I would point out that Tullius is a strategist, in addition to a tactician. Unlike the Ulfric brigade he sees the bigger picture.

[@jacopomazzo4949]

kinky grape Calling people retard inside a youtube comment discussion? Wow you're so original. If you want AND are capable of discussing Tes Lore in a civilized manner, then I'll answer you that the Empire has not, in fact, brought the Dominion in Skyrim. It was Ulfric. The White-Gold concordat forbidden Talos/Ysmir worship but the Empire never done anything to force that. When Ulfric killed Torygg in his mad bid for power, the Thalmor Justiciars had the excuse they wanted to investigate in Skyrim. Ulfric caused what he's complaining for, while using nationalist sentiment and lies to advance his cause. I would also point out that Ulfric was an Imperial Officer during the Great War among the full Skyrim force so if you think Cyrodiil was "easily conquered" explain to me how Ulfric alone should win, when they already kicked his ass once.

[@princeofsomnia7664]

But talos man, talos. Why ban talos in skyrim?

[@kuddlesthekhajiit7768]

What K'uddles is rlly concerned about is if Talos can make a good sweetroll. Khajiit likes sweetrolls, especially with moonsugar.

[@oliverstianhugaas7493]

Jarl Ulfric: *We will build a great, beautiful wall of fortresses along our southern mountain border and the Elves will pay for it!*

[@godobibo]

Oliver Hugaas The elves live on an island, no need for a wall

[@oliverstianhugaas7493]

@@godobibo I don't think they are to keep the Elves out specifically, just that the Aldmeeri dominion will cover the monetary costs of the construction.

[@pope3529]

Sounds like a great idea MAKE SKYRIM GREAT AGAIN

[@RachmatRL]

Akatosh bad Auriel good

[@jacopomazzo4949]

Ulfric 6 months after becoming High King: Ok maybe we cant make the elves pay for it... We'll pay for it taking money away from the rebuilding founds and hope it will be enough

[@half-slav]

Years ago, when I had first watched this video, I agreed wholeheartedly with the assessment. I have played Skyrim since it was released in 2011, and have found myself shifting loyalties between the Stormcloaks and Imperials many times since then. However, upon watching it again in this current year, I find myself in complete disagreement with the pro-Stormcloak sentiment being expressed. While I do very much sympathize with the embittered Nords of Skyrim (being my favorite race in TES) as well as with Ulfric himself to a certain degree, I can no longer bring myself to support the idea of an independent Skyrim, whether under Ulfric or another ruler. Skyrim simply cannot stand against the Aldmeri Dominion alone, especially in its current state, and for the Nords to abandon their Breton and Imperial allies at this most crucial moment (the onset of the second great war) seems beyond stupid to me. This civil war was started by Ulfric, and the Dominion has been all too pleased with the results thus far, which have only served to benefit them in their ultimate goal of destroying the Empire and conquering Tamriel. In my opinion, they stand to benefit even more should Skyrim secede. Were High Rock to successfully secede from the Empire and join forces with Hammerfell, I can see an independent Skyrim joining such an alliance as being the best possible outcome, however, there is no way of knowing how this situation will unfold. Given our limited knowledge of what events are canonical in Skyrim, as well as what TES6 will hold in store for us in the near future, I must side firmly with the Empire at this point.

[@defaultytuser]

That was a fun read. I share most of your views but, conversely , I'm still 50.1% Stormcloak. Trying to see it from a in-game perspective, to a nord wanting independence there is no "lesser evil" between the Empire and the Dominion since the moment the Empire signed the White Gold Concordat. The "if Skyrim secedes, then both the Imperials and the Stormcloaks will be conquered by the Thalmor" argument becomes sort of a boogeyman, because either way to the Stormcloaks the situation is already lost. But if they take their chances and become independent they can very well form a new alliance with another kingdom as you stated. Alternatively, as an independent nation they can try to take on the Thalmor on their own and get obliterated but it will be under their own terms at least. Live free or die *hard* !

[@tylerfletcher1982]

Skyrim could absolutely defend against the elves Keep in mind it has been 25 years since the great war and skyrim as well as the entire empire have been regained its lost strength in manpower long ago manpower while the elves are still limited in number. Why do you think they have to make the humans fight themselves? Because they cannot defeat the empire at this time by strength of arms Nor would they be able to successfully invade and conquer skyrim as the natural environment makes that very difficult and that's not even mentioning the ferocious Nords who wont take kindly to elves landing in skyrim

[@OuhHey]

Long story short : When I was a kid, I used to side with the *Stormcloaks* Then I grew older, I started to see the bigger picture, and I sided with the *Imperial* Then I got interested in the lore, and I saw the "whole bigger picture". And now, *I side with the Stormcloaks again* I really want a Nordic Redguard alliance for TES VI Would be hyper Based

[@Eramidas]

@@OuhHey I would love to hear more on your opinions on this. I'm starting over (again) and I think I may agree with you but I'm not sure

[@Cybernaut76]

@@OuhHey Yes. Like Eramidas, I would really like to hear your thoughts so please do tell us no matter how long the "long version" of your views will be. You may even manage to change my extremely deeply and well thought out decision to eventually side with the Empire. But it sounds like someone here could be wiser than me. Also, what do you people think about races? I always favored a Breton in Elder Scrolls games but is Breton really the only good/balanced race for Skyrim?

[@cory6266]

You made a pretty big mistake. The Markarth Incident was perpetrated by the Jarl, not Ulfric. When you get locked up in Cidhna Mine, one of the prisoners talks about how his daughter was executed at part of those events. The Markarth Incident happened in 4E 178, and Braig said she'd have been 23 by "now," in 4e 201. But that means she would have to have been born in 178, the *same* year as the Incident. Braig's daughter would have been an infant during the Incident itself. The Incident ended the year it began, and Ulfric was arrested at the end of it. That means the executions came years later, and he could not have been involved. Also, in Thonar Silverblood's private journal, he talks about persuading the *Jarl* to spare Madanach, the Forsworn's king, and lock him in the mine instead. If Ulfric was overseeing the executions, Thonar would have had to deal with him instead, not the Jarl. Placing the blame on Ulfric is Imperial propaganda. If you look at the wording in The Bear of Markarth you can see how the author goes out of his way to vilify Ulfric, rather than give a neutral account like an actual history book. You guys usually get things right, but in this, you're wrong.

[@indominusolympus8802]

Good call there

[@sandyhall8456]

Also in the game when you meet Ulfric at windhelm for the first time he hardly seems the monster he is depicted as.

[@ellisbarnett0292]

Sandy Hall that’s not really much of a point though is it? Doesn’t prove much as it is and Looks can be deceiving anyway he’s not going to be acting rabid all the time is he? Especially not in his own hold where he’d only be ruining his reputation... war crimes are committed during (or after) wars not when he’s sat on his throne about to speak to the dragonborn

[@CommanderM117]

agreed normally hes on top of stuff like this but meh alteast hes not as bad as shoddy cast they out right said ulfric is segregating the dunmer and argonian witch is not true

[@marianogomez1664]

This

[@yari4046]

The Civil War is way more interesting than anything to do with the dragons, I wish the main quest revolved around it instead of what we got in the game

[@LordSStorm]

But you got both. I mean...

[@RachmatRL]

Yeah, the Civil war was like 12 dudes vs another 12 dudes

[@Jimmyinvictus]

@@RachmatRL I understand the limits of gaming platforms, but I agree that a fully fleshed out Civil War storyline would have been way cooler than the dragon storyline. I remember some of the first "populated Civil War" mods in PC that had huge battles raging across Skyrim; caused a huge problem with save bloat, but man, it looked badass.

[@yari4046]

@@RachmatRL What I am saying that like the civil war is way more interesting conceptionally and that it is unfortunate that what we got in the game is nothing compared to what it should have been like.

[@BlazingBoltAeris]

@@yari4046 very true, some mods can help remedy it, but it really should have been far grander to begin with

[@novatheraven]

I joined the storm cloaks on accident, then ulfric said “we’re going to march on white run” I was sitting there like ‘BUT WAIT I LIVE THERE’ yeaaaaaaaaaaa for some reason murdering all of the invading stormcloaks on your side as a werewolf isn’t seen as treason by ulfirc stromcloak

[@rogehmarbi]

"Joined the storcmcloak by accident" why is this so funny. I mean, imagine you got captured by the Imperials, and when they ask whether you were forced to join the stormcloak or if you joined by your own accord, you answer "I don't know I was minding my own things then I accidentally joined the stormcloak!"

[@choboibigly6565]

@@rogehmarbi Not as funny but I accidentally joined the vampires because I thought I had to help out Serana or something, forgot I had turned into a vampire and was confused about why I couldn't do things during the day, then realised "wait, why have I only been helping the vampires?"

[@choboibigly6565]

@@rogehmarbi I also didn't realise health potions existed until the 1st Alduin fight on the throat of the world

[@xXx_Baba-Smoker_xXx]

lol.... wait... the same thing is about to happen to me.... I'm a werewolf living in whiterun about to side with the stormcloaks...

[@MrDeath5300]

@@xXx_Baba-Smoker_xXx Same, the worst part is this is like my 6th playthrough, i like the Empire better, buti just helped someone and then someone told me: hey! Thank you for helping the stormcloaks and i was like 👁️👄👁️ who me?!

[@dumbbuffoon7240]

About to start my first Skyrim playthrough never played it before but I loved fallout new Vegas and fallout 3 so I'm sure ill love it can't wait to start. A 1000 hour playthrough I heard this game is fantastic like Witcher wild hunt level of good

[@ososerious9688]

Honestly the best game ever. I even read alot of the books. Basically any book with decent gold value I most definitely read.

[@beefdust.]

It's been a week. What do you think of it so far

[@johnbrylledomingo6377]

Game is amazing ... not sure why dafuq it took me so long to even start ..... Play how you want. Doing main quest is good, doing Side quests are good, walking around with no actual intention too is good.

[@dumbbuffoon7240]

@@beefdust. fantastic

[@someguy9970]

The story isn't anywhere close to New Vegas or Witcher 3, but it's still good.

[@alexeberhardt9538]

In the face of Aldmeri oppression, “We must, indeed, all hang together or, most assuredly, we shall all hang separately.”

[@insaincaldo]

Not united as an empire, but as free peoples willing to stand with the empire.

[@zachdelozier2133]

@@insaincaldo An Empire of two provinces isn't much of an Empire tbh

[@insaincaldo]

@@zachdelozier2133 True that, they should probably have realized that before Skyrim's events and just declared themselves a country, or state instead of holding on to the notion that they are still a standing empire.

[@ruthstewart8725]

@@insaincaldo HERE'S AN IDEA! Kill the Thalmor THEN secede.

[@hollowspinch6384]

Honestly I find myself agreeing with both factions I honestly wish you could join the white run ranks due to it's neutrally of the war and perks would be both parties don't hate or like you however, you have the smallest army and are more like to be taken over by which ever side. The hard moral question would then be when it is time you truly choose a side.

[@notknightbean]

Balgruff for high king. He is a man with principle, loyalty, and honor. He puts skyrim and her people above personal glory, unlike ulfric, and is someone who cares for Skyrims native culture and traditions, unlike tulius and arguably elisiff.

[@danielhounshell2526]

@@notknightbean elisif is a Skyrim native, and cares about her people. The big problem with her leadership is her inexperience and tendency to overreact to situations, but considering that she's only been leading for what seems like a few months, that's kind of to be expected.

[@papiflame5709]

I wish we could wipe out the dominion in Skyrim

[@mercerfrey9427]

Papi Flame You can do that , by helping the Stormcloak rebellion and banish the thalmor puppet empire out of Skyrim.

[@saudade7842]

You can if you help the Empire. The Stormcloaks are outmatched by the Dominion whereas the Empire with Skyrim has a much better chance of crushing those Thalmor pricks. The Stormcloaks don't even have a damn navy.

[@user-cl5hm9vn7d]

Mercer Frey no, that literally helps the dominion

[@kellanmcgrath7033]

Hopefully we get to do something about it in 6

[@sp4zt4zt1c2]

Thank You FudgeMuppet for yet another great video. Keep up the amazing work.

[@cain9851]

As a Lich its whoever leaves more bodies behind in the long run.

[@jacopomazzo4949]

Pinkie Shy I see you're a man of culture

[@l0remipsum991]

Perfectly preserved corpses. Refrigerated.

[@alexispalangeo8643]

I used to always side with the stormcloaks. Considering Skyrim was my first ES game, and my near execution being the first thing I see, well I sided with the stormcloaks and always did. My immediate hate against them elves even helped that (some elf in glass armor insulted me as I was walking away, decided to kill that group then and there". I sided with the empire when I was RPing as an imperial and pretty much hated killing stormcloaks but when Legate Rikke said "Thanks Talos" i was like "dfq u say?" and so I delved into ES lore and shieet since then I've supported the empire while killing thalmor on the side.

[@muri5212]

So after all you a true son of skyrim or an imperial?

[@karimmezghiche9921]

@@muri5212 He betrayed Skyrim and became an Imperial puppet

[@muri5212]

@@karimmezghiche9921 true

[@ursa525]

i usually side with the imperials cause the nords are a bunch of as*holes to my kajit character

[@alexispalangeo8643]

@@ursa525 well to be fair, the Khajits are the one of the few races to voluntarily side with the Thalmor.

[@Koshea69]

Regardless of which you think is better suited, and I've made characters that look at it both ways, the fact that this is such a nuanced decision that people could see either way on is absolutely ingenious and something you don't see much of anymore.

[@disgustedcharlie6679]

Nobody: Stormcloaks: _"Fjörk"_

[@blamees]

fuck I'm crying...!

[@MatthewBaxter88]

I love u

[@jesterssketchbook]

they only say that when they stub their big toe

[@GlidusFlowers]

What? Out of the loop here

[@insaincaldo]

I must be kinda loopy, this hit me way harder then it should.

[@keithcrook8591]

Favorite play through was as a disciple of Hircine after becoming a werewolf BEFORE discovering I was the Dragonborn..the combination of the two drove the character mad, concerned only with the hunt, ended up siding with Imperials eventually simply because Ulfric made a better trophy

[@coffeeabernethy2823]

Problem; the first person in power you meet that treats you with respect is Jarl Balgruf... and if you side with the Stormcloaks, you will have to turn on him. And you *will* feel like an ass for doing so.

[@thoruszwolf4153]

I never found his claiming you as his servant very respectful

[@peter8835]

@@thoruszwolf4153 a thane is not a servant

[@thoruszwolf4153]

@@peter8835 Ordering you to aid his court mage, not giving you any say in the matter, and getting angry if you try talking to him before finishing the task he has imposed upon you, comes before he names you Thane... and even then, he gives you no choice in the matter... Balgruuf is an asshole.

[@johnstovall7503]

@@thoruszwolf4153 He says he has a job for you very different

[@thoruszwolf4153]

@@johnstovall7503 Have you ever try talking to him after he tells you to aid his court wizard? if you had, you'd see the real Balgruuf... he's very pissy to people who don't do as he orders

[@ludovicdisson3668]

Incredible video, it's so impartial and so well argued for both sides that he makes a very good case for both. It may bother some people who already think that both sides suck, but I think it actually helps *immersion* and roleplaying even more. It gives you good reasons to join either side, it gives you passion, motivation, maybe even emotional involvement if you're a hardcore roleplayer like me lol

[@zynx1828]

You're the dragonborn just summon your dragon army that are controlled by your bend will shout and destroy both of them.Then create a new empire which will be corrupted as time goes on cuz that's how it is

[@paladinheadquarters7776]

Zyn or just do that and rebuild the current empire, while the Dragonborn can be the emperor.

[@celtofcanaanesurix2245]

then you'll mantle talos

[@couldntthinkofacoolname9608]

Or just do all that as a vampire and rule forever

[@TheArklyte]

That's a -Reman- -Talos- Dragonborn way! Seriously, Bethesda made so many analogues between DB and founders of previous dynasties and they're just planning to waste it all in TES6:(

[@thefunguy2746]

Wait,you can conquer Skyrim with an army!?

[@sigurursverrisson8072]

The imperials could not spare their proffesional legions so they had to use farmers from skyrim thats why the emperor sent Tullius because he could win the war with farmers

[@RachmatRL]

Also Pale Pass was blocked by avalanche so the Legion in Cyrodiil can't assist the Legion in Skyrim

[@celtofcanaanesurix2245]

and so can Ulfric, without the help of an armies backup

[@Quirrel]

Ulfric the one true high king have veterans of many wars.

[@eddierattlehead2443]

@@celtofcanaanesurix2245 prove it.

[@ezequielmorales4221]

@@Quirrel True high king my ass. He is a traitor and a Dominion Agent.

[@celwenileran2135]

When I was playing my vampire character, I actually aided Stormcloaks. Harkon is an absolute idiot for not capitalizing on that. If the Empire and Thalmor are too busy trying to establish power in Skyrim and all over the world, vampires are left unchecked. They are free to feast and grow in numbers. Aiding Stormcloaks causes chaos. People will be more focused on the war and protecting Skyrim from BOTH empire and Thalmor rather than on couple of people being drained. Perfect plan.

[@zephyrerazortail5478]

And as Companion sellsword, more contracts :D (plus more human/elf hearts to eat)

[@mihaimax2180]

@Jack Humm91 Until the Aldmeri dominion rolls up and burns skyrim to the ground with everything in it,they just looking for an excuse if Ulfric won it would ve literally been the whole tamriel vs skyrim situation

[@jackiebreeden3384]

Harkon doesn’t care about current political events pretty sure hes seen multiple empire rise and fall over the years and if you asked him about the civil war he’d think you were talking about one from a very long time ago and honestly i think he prefers to just stay out of the politics of man knowing their fickle and happen in a tiny span of time compared to his lifespan he probably had his hand in plenty of history for a while and eventually just lost interest or found it to serve little purpose for him

[@jackiebreeden3384]

@Jack Humm91 if I recall correctly a few vampires have tried to form empires in elder scrolls lore and it always went badly plus a system where such a small group rules over such a large one almost always collapses not to mention the fact that for a good portion of every single day their significantly weakened so it’d be very hard to maintain that power without allying themselves with another group that could maintain their power during the day which would eventually tire of the arrangement and either take over or be defeated their current arrangement is far more stable over time and far more hands off now this situation does change if they could get auriels bow they might be able to maintain some power over the humans for a while but eventually the thalmor would probably over power them with their magical prowess

[@Buzzy_Bland]

That’s fairly clever, actually. Easier to take advantage of a brand new government establishing its hold than the old government reasserting its control.

[@RyanM92]

I only fought for the Imperials as i'd figured that the Empire remaining united with Skyrim and such would fare better at counterattacking the Thalmor later on.

[@MrEtamsorojam]

Problem is that the Empire couldn't defeat the Thalmor in the previous war when they had Hammerfell and a strong Skyrim on their side, so I don't think they would have a better chance now. Also the Mede Empire is not much better than the Thalmor, it makes (and breaks) promises too easily as evidenced by the handling of the Markath Incident.

[@065muhammadnurimanbinabdul6]

These people not taking a break. They really on drug right now about elder scrolls lore.

[@uraniumblue]

Muhammad Iman and they did it for us

[@chopshop94]

They REALLY on drug right now

[@ElGordoBandito]

Removing the Dragonborn from the equation, I don't think the Stormcloak Rebellion has a snowball's chance in Hell of overtaking the Empire, even in their weakened state.

[@Cobra_125]

Well when we first enter the game, Ulfric is about to die until Alduin interrupts the execution. So you are correct in this.

[@patheticbadger3478]

@@Cobra_125 Doesn't help that the Empire is planing to move two whole legion (if I remember rigth") from Cyrodill, which also is the reason why the empire barely have any soldiers in Skyrim since 90% of their legions are in cyrodil at the border guarding agains the dominion.

[@Hayden2447]

PatheticBadger wrong Theres a note in game and it says the empire has gotten a proper legion ready at Pale pass waiting for it to clear so they can enter Skyrim to end the war Now I don’t know if they took a legion away from the border with the dominon but that’s something that the empire doesn’t want to do in case the thalmor take advantage of that or if they were able to train a whole legions worth of men to that standard which is possible as the Empire is obviously going to train more troops for the second great war… they know its gonna happen

[@btbplays7718]

I still think the Stormcloaks have a chance because if you side with the Stormcloaks and just run away from every battle or just stand in the corner and do nothing than the Stormcloaks still win.(Ulfric will call you a coward but that’s beside the point) The only thing you really help with is picking up the jagged crown and giving it to Ulfric which they could easily do without the Dragonborn

[@macmcswag1714]

@Amber Hoke "Nazi Elves" 😂😂😂

[@OnePrideRideOrDie]

“iT dOEsNt MAttEr hE GoEs tO tHE BLoCk”

[@OnePrideRideOrDie]

@barbaxamos neither

[@Local_commentor]

@barbaxamos sorry but ralof is and hey you ur finally awake is the reason I can't join the imperial scum

[@asmodeus1234]

I hate you so much

[@kylewealleans841]

iT wAs OnLy tHaT oNe ImPeRiAl cApTaIn ThAt wAs bAd

[@mandy8286]

Every time I try to side with the stormcloaks I can never go through with it after attacking whiterun. I always have to reload and switch sides, it's too painful.

[@DarkAdonisVyers]

Depending on how fast you are, you can just jump straight to Balgruuf with minimal casualties.

[@remote24]

Just archieved the jagged crown with galmar brabbling through the whole dungeon. Im probably offf to Tullius now 😅

[@Monter_Man]

Here is why I side with the empire, the first thing you do for them is take back an entire fort for them to see if you are capable but the stormcloaks make you travel miles away and make you kill one ice wraith and call it good enough for them

[@mr.generico386]

Why do they need to test new recruits? Aren't they like, in dire need of manpower?

[@madara992]

@@mr.generico386 remember that the storm cloaks are just of abled nord citizens that follows Ulfric which is essentially controlled chaos to be exact but since we are special like being Dragonborn those tasks both imperial and stormcloak are just the bare minimum for us gameplay and game mechanic wise both Rikke and Galmar thinks there’s something different about us so they won’t train us like an average soldier

[@jackalandgrim4943]

@@madara992 I agree

[@iaminpain9458]

I side with the Empire. They treat all races fairly, and they themselves resent the Aldmeri Dominion. General Tullius has already stated that the Empire is just waiting for another war with the Thalmor to start so that they can settle it once and for all. Either the Stormcloaks try to take on the Thalmor alone, or the Empire makes an effort to retake what is theirs. If the Empire wins, the Nords might get their Talos back. If the Stormcloaks win, a lot of Nord lives are lost fighting a more powerful army.

[@jamesmccloud7535]

The only reason general tullius is taking long getting rid of the stormcloaks is because he only has local recruits with him it even said ingame that the legion's arrival has been slightly delayed. When it comes the stormcloaks will be easily defeated, not mentioning the fact they were almost defeated AT THE VERY START Of THE GAME which shows how weak they are. Imagine being any other race expect nord when joining the stormcloaks i just cant.

[@podroznikzpustkowi4805]

@@jamesmccloud7535 stormcloaks are like a snake, cut the head and the body will die

[@liamwalsh3925]

*all* races fairly? The Khajiits would say otherwise

[@hlaaluinc.4959]

"Treats all races fairly" Dunmer's slaves guarded by Imperial Law: *FAIRLY*

[@justawhiteguywitharocketla590]

I side with the stormcloaks. We treat all races equally except for dark elves and like anyone who isnt a nord.

[@johnstuart1347]

Imperial in the end. While I agree that freedom of religion and self-rule are both very important, here are a few issues with the Stormcloaks: 1. While technically outlawed, the ban on Talos was not enforced until Ulfric pushed the issue. Before the rebellion, everyone still had “their own little shrines to Talos”. Effectively, the Empire nodded at the Almeri Dominion, but metaphorically crossed their fingers behind their backs. Freedom of religion still existed, so the inciting motivation is at least a little hollow. 2. The Aldmeri Dominion is still a massive threat, and the united Empire BARELY pushed the Dominion back. Fracturing the Empire only serves to make both the Empire, and the subsequent fragments, much more vulnerable. 3. We learn from a Thalmor dossier that Ulfric was, at least at one point, a Thalmor agent. This, to me, makes him suspect at best. The rebellion is actually very favorable for the Thalmor, for the reasons I mentioned above. 4. Ulfric actively limits his resources by promoting Nordic racial interests at the expense of other races. This is frankly stupid from both a moral and political standpoint. Moral, because racism, and political because all nations need to incentivize all of its inhabitants to be productive to the greatest degree possible. When you actively limit the upper limits of an inhabitants growth, you also cut off their incentive to be productive, thus limiting your own resources. That said, the Empire is flawed, as they were about to execute the PC without a trial, hearing, or seemingly any reason at all. The PC was just in the wrong place at the wrong time, and you have to wonder if an organization that brutal and disrespectful of its own laws is a worthy government.

[@MasterAdam100]

Give it 500-1000 years at least. Tamriel will eventually break up into smaller Republics and industrialize. Perhaps sooner if a wise ruler would revitalize Dwemer technology. Dwemer technology isn't exactly out of reach or anything.

[@nn-nu8hf]

freedom of religion exists in skyrim as long as you do your worshiping in private where nobody will find out. wOW what a deal!!!

[@vicieux7789]

fuck the stormcloaks for their racism and the way they treat dark elves, argonians and khajit

[@mbazzanella6400]

Props to you for your detailed and well-reasoned breakdown. I personally am undecided, but feel compelled to provide counters to some of those points: 1. While the Empire may have maintained a secret tolerance for the worship of Talos, it is likely the Dominion would have come to Skyrim sooner or later under the guise of enforcing the WGC. It is possible that Ulfric exacerbated the situation with his rebellion but it is equally possible that he prevented a more massive Thalmor incursion by starting it. The dossiers/documents found in the Embassy state that the Dominion wants to remain as hands-off as possible with the Civil War. By starting it, Ulfric may have prevented the Dominion military from occupying Skyrim in force. 2. I agree with everything you said here. I only differ on my perspective- if a united Empire could not stop the Dominion, what reason does anyone in Skyrim have to trust in their leadership? It's understandable that an alternative (albeit ill-defined) course of action is preferable. 3. Ulfric was not technically a Thalmor agent, but an asset. He escaped (or was freed) from their custody during the War and acted on their information to take his part in the Markarth Incident against the Forsworn. While this benefitted the Thalmor, he did so for his own reasons. He bears no integral loyalty or love for the Thalmor. At worst, he has played the role of accidental pawn for them in the past. 4. I have no arguments here. Ulfric's xenophobia and bigotry is both reprehensible and unproductive for the future of Skyrim. The best I can say is that it's somewhat understandable given the treatment he has received at the hands of elves, but this is flimsy at best as it doesn't justify his abuse of the Dunmer and Argonians in and around Windhelm.

[@AsymmetricalCrimes]

One thing you get wrong is the full power of the Imperial military. Following the Season Unending quest, you can ask General Tullius why the Empire won't send more troops to Skyrim. His response is that the vast majority of the Legion is on the southern border with the dominion. He states that the civil war in Skyrim is a "sideshow" to the rest of the empire and that the Emperor's priority is preparing for a second Great War. Not to mention most of the Legion you see in Skyrim are local recruits and not the professional soldiers you would see on the front lines. If the Empire really wanted to, they could crush the Stormcloak rebellion in weeks. The Legion that the Stormcloaks are fighting in Skyrim is equivalent to a garrison army in a Total War game. Other than that point, I think a big reason why people should side with the Empire is because its Ulfric's fault that the dominion is in Skyrim in the first place. Prior to the civil war, most people kept worshipping Talos in secret while the Empire turned a blind eye and pretend it wasn't happening. It wasn't until Ulfric began his uprising that the Empire had to crack down on Talos worship. You can literally see this in-game. Before the Battle of Whiterun, Talos worship is allowed in the city despite it being an imperial province (Whiterun by default is imperial due to its neutrality). It's not until Balgruuf is forced to allow Legion troops in the city to defend against Ulfric's attack that Talos gets banned. Ulfric literally creates his own enemies. Additionally the Stormcloak army is a proxy that is secretly supported by the Thalmor. They don't support them enough to win the war outright but enough so that they can match the local imperial garrisons. If it wasn't for Thalmor support, the Stormcloaks would have lost before the game even started. The same is with the dragon attack on Helgen. You can also look in the game files and hear a cut conversation with General Tullius and Elenwen in which Elenwen tries to get Tullius to hand over Ulfric to Thalmor custody (No doubt to let him escape and continue the civil war). Tullius stands up to her and declines her request, clearing showing that the Empire can still boss the Thalmor around if the situation allows it. As for Stormcloak negatives, Ulfric is a massive racist who subjugates non-Nords to living in the poorer district of Windhelm (with one exception) and prevents Argonians from entering at all. If Ulfric had his way, we would see the forceful deportation of non-Nords from Skyrim which would be a serious blow to Skyrim's economy and labor pool. Not to mention the Stormcloak "plan" to invade the Dominion is laughable at best. The idea of one province amassing an army large enough to take on the Dominion is ridiculous, not to mention near-impossible since Skyrim is almost completely landlocked and surrounded by hostile neighbors. Even if they built enough boats they would have to sail through frozen waters and across all of High Rock and Hammerfell which would be logistically difficult even for a united Tamrielic Empire. With all this in mind, I think anyone who genuinely sides with the Stormcloaks lacks the ability to think critically and can't see past the game's first quest.

[@ayanagarwal7116]

7:50 and Jarl Ballin' chillin' in between