Straight Piping My Saab 9-5 Wagon for the Sake of Science

[@alimontana5867]

I had the exact same problem, spent thousands on 2 new turbos, changed the coolant and had a crack in the pipe leading to the air box, swapped for new pipe and for some prestone all makes and models coolant and it cured it, worth a try

[@fieldlab4]

A crack somewhere in the intake would make it run lean and hot. Maybe a smoke test, putting the intake under a little pressure.

[@alimontana5867]

@@fieldlab4 that's the thing, tech 2 wasn't showing me anything at all car was running fine, checked the full air intake and there it was

[@AutoAutopsy]

Interesting, thanks for the input

[@vazza7504]

Had a similar problem years ago with a vauxhall cavalier 2.0 GSI. None turbo, but persistent running rough problem. No codes, but engine was so rough. Went through a couple of garages who tested with Tech2 equipment, then the mechanic guessing game started. Change this change that. Vauxhall in the UK is General motors owned, hence the link to Tech2, after 3 months of mechanic shops guessing which part to change next I took it away to an old school mechanic somewhere else. This mechanic had diagnostic equipment but also knew to look for obvious things S well as engine management related. He told me to lift the bonnet/hood, start the engine, knowing there were no faults found he brought his kettle out full of water, poured the water out over the inlet manifold, immedietly steam came out the exhaust finding my problem. There was a small crack in the aluminium inlet manifold casting. Allowing to much air in to the engine. No EML came on has it was after the air flow meter. My car had no oxygen sensor fitted, that was on models a bit later than mine. Bought and replaced the inlet manifold and car run perfect. Maybe on turbo models same process might work. Bit of water poured along inlet pipes may find leaks. Maybe a squirt of carb cleaner would show up leaks by engine note change, obviously being careful near anything hot. Probs stick to water much safer. 🔥🔥💦💦💦💦💦😉

[@AutoAutopsy]

Thanks for the tip!!

[@manganvbg90]

So nice to see saabs in the warmth. Greetings from Saabland 😁

[@Vaigue]

The transmission in that wagon shifts so much faster than my 07 93 aero wagon...wow.

[@AutoAutopsy]

Haha 😂

[@edvinwestman8375]

My brother has got a 02 95 and it shifts just as fast so I think you might have some problems.

[@Vaigue]

@@edvinwestman8375 I own a 93 aero, and unfortunately the auto transmissions are sluggish. The delay between 1-2 is slow and the downshifts do not make sense. The car has a drunk mind of its own.

[@mikeclarke952]

I think you have to look down the backfiring issue path. You've got burning exhaust gas going through your turbo and it's overwhelming the turbo cooling. Loss of boost is probably when the wastegate sticks open due to thermal expansion of the red hot turbo. Backfiring is: Too rich fuel or timing is off.

[@AutoAutopsy]

Thanks for the advice Mike!!

[@GTsGarageTech]

I saw another comment saying to smoke check it. I think that’s a great idea. You can find videos on how to make one or just get one off Amazon. I don’t think they are too expensive if I remember right. Then you can plug the exhaust and put it in the intake and if there is a leak somewhere within the intake system, smoke will come out. Worth a try before spending more money on it imo

[@AutoAutopsy]

Yeah, might be worth a shot

[@MassiveTrackHunter]

3 years in Ohio is equal to a lifetime in AZ, when it comes to rust, apparently. That exhaust looks awesome!

[@AutoAutopsy]

Yeah it was in Cali before here. No rust!

[@smaberg]

Hi, I’m from Sweden and been working on the 9-5 for about a decade and from just looking at the video hearing the backfire and looking at what you’ve done, it’s very likely it’s the valves, quite common on these. By the way the fuel pump is located in a separate enclosure, and the pump itself is cheap and easy to replace, the filter is located under the car in front of the passenger backseat tire.

[@marvi1515]

Stefan, thank you. We do not have many shops that specialize in the vehicles. Are you a mechanic in Sweden?

[@smaberg]

@@marvi1515 no, but working with cars and tuning them since I was a boy, so for about 35 years. Dealing with streetrace almost every week, So I would call myself a homebaked mechanic with knowledge 🥰

[@erezgalfand4935]

@@smaberg i’ve seen your comments on other saab videos lol, any chance you know much about OG93’s?

[@smaberg]

@@erezgalfand4935 the og T5 I know about 70% about. The ones with T7 is about 80% but the 9-5 is my main.

[@erezgalfand4935]

@@smaberg so about 70% more than i know lol, i have some questions about how to go about upgrading my ‘99. if you think you could help i’d be happy to pay for your time! let me know

[@ftby59mikeD]

Frustrating to say the least, but you've taken a very methodical approach to resolving it. Good luck & we'll look forward to updates!

[@AutoAutopsy]

Thanks :(

[@evadonida4934]

WE LOVE WATCHING SAAB GOD BLESS U GUYS

[@tjmac94]

02 sensors can lie but it seems lean could be fuel pump or injectors. Fuel pump might be ok at idle but can cause issues when it needs to pump more fuel while under load.

[@darenwilkieson6676]

Fuel pressure regulator ?

[@tjmac94]

@@darenwilkieson6676 that too

[@rioblyth3926]

Would it trip a code?

[@AutoAutopsy]

Check FPR and it was fine :/ thanks tho

[@djdramatical]

I had a clogged catalytic converter on my 9-5 when I first bought it used. No boost at all drove like a n/a car. Put in a new cat boosted fine again.

[@AutoAutopsy]

That’s not my issue, unfortunately.

[@djdramatical]

@@AutoAutopsy Sorry to hear. Keep at it and please let us all know what it is.

[@m.akbart3840]

This is nuts!!! You've checked everything after the turbo. Have you checked the turbo manifold? I have watched all the vids but I forget the list as I type this lol. This is bonkers

[@AutoAutopsy]

It is! SMH 🤦🏻‍♂️

[@fieldlab4]

One more thing- the DIC is a magical device but some are prone to failure so people are careful with them and try to collect spares. It's filled with oil for cooling. It should never be laid down on its side or inverted because supposedly air bubbles might damage it while running. The DIC has sensors which monitor the spark for the ECU. It was designed around the factory recommended NGK plugs only and is very sensitive to using other brands. I'm even careful about possible differences using NGK platinum (i think iridium was my choice). I run the -6 or -7 heat range plugs. You could try -8. And the gap is very important too. Definitely only NGK plugs set to very close to the right gap (I run very slightly less gap because the spark can blow out/break down in turbo engines under high load).

[@AutoAutopsy]

Thanks for the tip! I have proper plugs but have ordered new NGK’s just to be safe :)

[@fieldlab4]

@@AutoAutopsy Of course, it's easy to measure the resistance of plugs to check them that way, but it's always possible something odd is happening at high voltage.

[@AutoAutopsy]

I don’t have the expertise, knowledge, tools, or time to really dive into any of that 😅

[@fieldlab4]

@@AutoAutopsy Put a cheap volt meter on resistance and measure from the top to the tip. Should be all the same. I think the spec is like 5,000 ohms and they say it tends to increase with age.

[@nelagordon24]

I had the same red glowing turbo few years back. Both my cats were clogged/blocked. I would always use octane boosters and it would say “cat converter safe” on the label. I was lucky my warranty on emission had 64 miles left till I hit 75k miles and no coverage. This was back in 2008 so dealer warranty was still in effect. 2006 Saab 9-3 aero v6

[@AutoAutopsy]

Interesting. Thanks

[@DruranAuto]

Check that the wastegate valve does not get stuck. If it gets stuck in a semi-open position, it explains your symptoms. Not entirely unusual with a little rust, in which case loosen the clip for the wastegate rod & try to loosen it. But if you are unlucky, it may be the shaft into the exhaust housing that gets stuck & then there will be a change.

[@MassiveTrackHunter]

Fuel pressure might be visible on tech2? Never checked. If it is, you can run live tech2 and monitor to see if it drops when the motor is under higher rpm. That would definitely cause this.

[@AutoAutopsy]

Yeah, we tried. All is fine

[@mcdonald2037]

It sounds nice.. i like how it turbo Sounds. Maybe the exhaust manifold

[@AutoAutopsy]

😂

[@davidquincaine3048]

très belle vidéo: beau travail, bravo! Bonjour de France ou on aime aussi les Saab!

[@KobaSena_Fr]

Why not just a bad first O2 sensor ? It would send "good" informations to the ECU but be bad in reality. Already saw that and a clogged cat on the 9-5 T7

[@fieldlab4]

Nothing like a bad O2 sensor to clog a cat.

[@darenwilkieson6676]

Bad 02 sensor could cause lean mixtures...can you not run live time readings with tech 2 to see your readings on both 02 sensors?

[@fieldlab4]

@@darenwilkieson6676 But if the mixture is that lean, seems like the plugs are going to be cooked. Blue. He says the plugs were okay.

[@KobaSena_Fr]

@@darenwilkieson6676 you can but maybe will look good if it's fooled

[@darenwilkieson6676]

@@fieldlab4 true he did...

[@chloedegurechaff1941]

I ran my 02 9-3 with just a downpipe for a little while as I waited for my new exhaust to come in. Everyone compared its sound to a diesel. It sounded pretty meaty. Always got everyone looking at it when leaving meets and shows.

[@AutoAutopsy]

😂

[@gustavoalbertotapia6433]

You could check the coolant lines, they could probably be damaged, and also make sure the westgate is opening when it should be

[@AutoAutopsy]

Already checked, thanks tho

[@zacktong8105]

My turbo finally gave out on my '99 after 20 YEARS and 145,000 miles which along with a number of other problems left the car undrivable and I had to part with it in a trade for a really reliable Honda CRV.

[@AutoAutopsy]

Oof

[@devinegamingtv3427]

I have had two Honda CRV´s, and both have been unreilable. My last CRV was a 2004 petrol (150HP) decent wintercar (I ive in Norway) but it has had problems every year. Few days ago I sold it and got myself a Saab 9-5 automatic, petrol turbo, and I´m really happy!

[@MassiveTrackHunter]

02 sensors brand new OEM? That excessive backfiring is likely an indicator of too little fuel. Those plugs also have a bit of white powdering on the electrodes, a second indicator. Have both O2 sensors been replaced with OEM's by you? If yes, either there may be a wiring issue to an O2 or a bad racer tune on the ECU. Maybe have a mechanic put a test pipe in there and check fuel/air ratio. Too little fuel will cause ring, cylinder wall and valve wear and glowing turbos since oxygen making it into the exhaust results in combustion happening where it should not, increasing temps in the exhaust, where temps SHOULD BE decreasing. Hope this helps. I had issues on my 9-3 combi 2.0 clogging cats. Even though the 02 sensor signal graphing looked good, I replaced them both. Been almost a year, and no more cat clogging codes popping up. Hopefully it will bet that simple for yours.

[@AutoAutopsy]

The o2 sensors were swapped when we changed out the exhaust! Meant to mention that in the video

[@dennisebbink3416]

Same issue here in the netherlands, dame edna 2007, 2.3t, hirsch tuned 220 bhp. Changed almost everything on your list, katalysator, exhaust, maf and map sensor, t7, thermostate and sensor, lambdasensors, bougies etc, nothing worked. Then I noticed, when accelarate firm from low revs, a lot of backfire, kling,kling. Although I used only super 98 octane fuel, I studied this and it seems that the fuel in the netherlands is a mess. So I live near germany and tried aral fuel, octane 102 and the issue seemed to be over, full boost again! So I think the bad fuel causes backfire, witch the computer reacts in decreasing power, to save your engine. Just out of curiosity, I will check the inlet manifold also, to be sure the fuel was the problem. Did you solve it?

[@dennisebbink3416]

Hmmm, with backfire, I ment pinging, pre-detonation.....

[@bernhardjost]

As long as the engine revs up like that and has power it can't be the fuel pump/filter, but check with the fuel pressure regulator on the injector rail, this one defines wheter your mix is to lean rich. SInce it has no electrical connector it can't throw a code

[@AutoAutopsy]

FPR was on that list of things we checked. Thank you for the suggestion and comment tho! :)

[@allenrussell1947]

I'm envious of that boost. Mine is much better and will now go straight to the red but as speed builds the boost falls off a bit. I think it's the wastegate.

[@AutoAutopsy]

You’re envious of my problems?? Let’s trade! 😂

[@allenrussell1947]

@@AutoAutopsy envious of the boost, not the colorful turbo 😁

[@ChrispyWRX]

If I would make a guess it would be lines cooling the turbo

[@fieldlab4]

Turbo cooling is only for the bearing. No effect on the housing temp.

[@AutoAutopsy]

Already checked and cleaned!

[@b1llyw123]

Have you tried changing out the front o2 sensor?( controls fuel ) or possibly the cassette ( coil pack assembly) since the ignition control is built in could be throwing the spark advance off or firing spark late.

[@AutoAutopsy]

Yes. The O2 sensor was swapped when the exhaust was. Sorry, meant to mention that in the video!!

[@alfredritcher]

The problem with the turbo sounds like a problem with the waste gate

[@AutoAutopsy]

Wastegate was replaced when the turbo was. Maybe it needs adjusted tho

[@alfredritcher]

@@AutoAutopsy ok just a thought

[@blackbirdsweswe8367]

Have you tried to change the oil/cooling piping to the turbo?

[@rioblyth3926]

I think he did on the list it said something along piping and when he put a new turbo on he would have checked. A lot of people are saying possible crack in the intake

[@AutoAutopsy]

^ yeah those were all cleaned

[@smaberg]

Also always only use ngk sparks, and the cassette labeled 3.7c, d,e all others keeps going bad.

[@AutoAutopsy]

Yep!

[@feffe85]

my 9-3 aero backfired like that, then i changed all my sparkplugs and it stopped, and also its alot smoother :)

[@AutoAutopsy]

The backfiring isn’t an issue lol. That was because we had it straight piped

[@feffe85]

@@AutoAutopsy yeah i also liked the backfire, but i stripped the threads to the nr1 sparkplug.. major problem to fix . :(

[@MassiveTrackHunter]

I did that to my 9-3 combi, for the sake of science. XD Muffler fell off and it was scientifically replaced with a pipe and nice Saab style oval tip. Scientifically proven to sound wicked, but quiet when I want to be. Nonetheless those OG Saab engines sound soooo much better, imho.

[@AutoAutopsy]

Lol

[@Testiclops69]

They do. I have an 08 9-3 with no mufflers not resonators and my buddy just did the same to his 01viggen and his is so much louder and pops like crazy whenever he lets off the throttle

[@MassiveTrackHunter]

@@Testiclops69 If I did that with my Vig, I would last 5 minutes before Rosco pulled me over. That would be an epic 5 min. 🤣

[@Testiclops69]

@@MassiveTrackHunter lol dude is crazy. Never expected that when he did it

[@jeppe8776]

Have you checked the pcv-system? Seems like much more of a problem on older Saabs but I guess you'll try anything at this point.

[@AutoAutopsy]

I have not. Thanks

[@adrianherbert5384]

I feel your pain. There has to be some sort of blockage (perhaps somewhere that's causing it to WORK so hard. What part of the turbo moves that could cause such heat? Sorry, I'm not a mechanic, just a SAAB lover!

[@thiagocoutinho7717]

The turbo is connected to the exhaust so the air passes through a turbine and spins it to make boost, but since it’s not a direct path to the tail pipe it’ll accumulate heat and if there isn’t sufficient cooling or if there’s a blockage in the exhaust it’ll cause the glowing turbo

[@AutoAutopsy]

Yeah it’s being a pain in my ass! Lol

[@rappy9256]

im looking all over for just a 3 inch down pipe for a 04 Saab 9-5 Aero, but to no avail... Any ideas?

[@AutoAutopsy]

Plenty of options out there. Krona, GS, Maptun, etc

[@TJ_Hack3r]

You said that you cleaned the oil lines, but did you check to see that you had oil coming though the lines after you put them back on the car?

[@AutoAutopsy]

I’m not sure how that’s possible to check lol

[@TJ_Hack3r]

@@AutoAutopsy undo the line at the turbo that feeds it oil, and run it into a water bottle. Crank the engine to see if oil comes out. I will take a few cranks, but you should get a steady stream of oil

[@simond.2957]

Please Test your Breakbooser near the Breakpedal. If you hear any noises?

[@AutoAutopsy]

That should be unrelated if there are noises, I would think

[@derrijl]

In my case i have exactly the same problem 9-5 2002. I still do not know what the problem is.

[@AutoAutopsy]

Ugh. Good luck! Try posting on the 9-5 Facebook group for help

[@fieldlab4]

Wait a minute- a glowing turbo after hard driving is probably normal! Usually you can't see it because of covers, lighting, etc. Maybe just get some engine bay ventilation and baby it a few minutes before parking. Of course, be sure your turbo oil and coolant lines are clear if that's easy to do. Earlier 9-5's had the sludging issue which could make a mess of the entire oil system but that normally wasn't a problem after 2004. Chronic very short trips that don't allow the engine to heat up can cause sludging because moisture isn't cooked off. Also- assuming you are running synthetic, factory spec 5w30 oil. Personally I like Amsoil. Also assuming you are running a stock ECU tune/firmware.

[@Staatus_Quo]

He noticed it prior when not driving it hard too. He has been driving it hard for videos to make sure it is visible on camera.

[@fieldlab4]

They definitely get hotter than with no turbo- reason for the heat shield.

[@vtr0104]

It's difficult to get the entire housing to heat up like that, so it's not normal. I've got an '03 9-3 with like.. 160k miles on it that's still on the original turbo, and I've driven it in all sorts of conditions without seeing something like this (including one summer about 5 years ago where it was driven almost 10 hours straight from Greece back to Romania, with half the trip at highway speeds and a lot of it uphill). And on the 9-3s, the turbo is between the engine and the firewall, so it's even more prone to heating up, yet I saw none of this. Just based on how physics works, only two things could cause it to do that. We know it's mounted on the engine exhaust circuit, so normally it takes hot exhaust gases when it's running. But they're never so hot that they can make a turbo-housing glow red. So either the unit is not being cooled at all (blocked oil feed or return lines, no air-flow, shot bearings), or something in the engine ahead of the turbo is causing the exhaust gases to heat up beyond the limit of what the oil lines and air-flow are able to cool. He said he checked the oil feed lines, so we can rule that out, and this is a new turbo, so bearing issues are out of the question, which means it could be something in the engine. Maybe some of the exhaust valve seals are worn and there is more volume coming in, with possibly unspent fuel. During the test-drive, there was a back-fire noise even on the normal tune. Back-fire usually occurs when fuel is escaping to the exhaust manifold somehow. In newer sports-cars this is engineered on purpose with separate injectors or through a tune, but in this case, it sounds like a mechanical cause for it. If there is unspent fuel escaping to the turbo, it could be causing this effect, since it's actually the turbo that's completing the burn cycle, instead of it ending in the cylinder/s. It's a crap job, but maybe it's worth it taking the head off the block and checking the exhaust valves....

[@Staatus_Quo]

@@vtr0104 honestly the next step he should take is smoke testing from the intake next before ripping into the block. If there is a leak in the intake and the air is thinned, that can cause the turbo to overheat like this. I mentioned it, and is think another poster said similar. Far cheaper and easier before tearing into the block chasing something that could be as easy as a broken part of the air intake/delivery system.

[@fieldlab4]

@@Staatus_Quo Hum. Other Saab owners have said a very dim glow is normal and the temps are in "normal" range- around 1000°f, but if there is an issue, I don't see how valve seals could cause an issue other than oil leaks (smoky exhaust). Damaged valve seats would show up in a compression/leak down test. The coolant and oil lines for the bearings shouldn't effect the housing temp much. So you are back to the same possibilities- a lean mixture caused by a vacuum leak, a bad DIC, bad temp or oxygen sensor somewhere, bad fuel pressure or regulator, maybe the ECU, maybe a bad injector/injectors, etc. IDK. If you see any glow on the exhaust manifold itself, and it's all the legs, not just one, at least you know it's not something only effecting one or two cylinders. A scan with a Tech II (with Saab card) is likely to either show something wrong or show something normal that you know isn't (meaning a sensor, the DIC or the ECU is bad). That would be my first recommendation.

[@rasmusbrunell1170]

Is that a 2.6t engine

[@AutoAutopsy]

😐

[@jonatanduelund9123]

Lovely

[@DruranAuto]

Hi brother !!! have you found the fault on your saab ??? otherwise I can talk to my friends in the saab club here in sweden.

[@Evocati-Augusti]

DO you have a cold air intake?

[@AutoAutopsy]

No it’s stock

[@BMW-i3s-Denmark]

Somthing blocking the outside air from coming in too cool it down ?

[@AutoAutopsy]

Not that I can see :/

[@noway3923]

Check waste gate and linkage

[@AutoAutopsy]

It was replaced when the turbo was, but we will!

[@Evocati-Augusti]

I had a straight pipe on my... I think 97 900 3.7lt I've had 7 Saabs... I know it was the 3.7 lt ,and it did not sound good lol

[@AutoAutopsy]

👍🏼

[@Evocati-Augusti]

I have the same rims

[@AutoAutopsy]

👍🏼👍🏼

[@fieldlab4]

You didn't try a different DIC. If you or a friend has one laying around, it's an easy thing to eliminate. Note: you need a black T7 dic, not the T5 red. Wow. What a weird problem. Is the timing chain tight? Did it hop a tooth or something?

[@AutoAutopsy]

Yes. I had a good working spare OEM DIC I suppose I could try. We’re going to try to check the timing too

[@nxthxntbx08]

Imagine the turbo had RGB lights 😂

[@AutoAutopsy]

Pain

[@zenmashh]

Isn't it illegal to have License plates from a different country on a US-registered vehicle?

[@AutoAutopsy]

No lol. My state doesn’t require a front plate

[@thefasterdriver626]

sounds like a "slow VW Golf R"

[@garyfox8701]

Some local eejits swiped my mid exhaust probably thinking it was the cat... I have managed to stitch an alternative middle section but it does dangle as there are no hooks/wires to support that section. Could I find a video of a saab exhaust anywhere at that time? Good luck with the super hot turbo dude.

[@AutoAutopsy]

Pain

[@sterlingh1256]

I feel bad bro

[@AutoAutopsy]

:(

[@petezzzz]

Try another ECU.

[@AutoAutopsy]

We tried the new tune tho. I wouldn’t think that would affect jt

[@petezzzz]

@@AutoAutopsy the tune code resides in a dedicated chip of the ECU. The other parts of the ECU can be defective. It's enough for a single stupid resistor to be slightly off to give you a lean mixture for example. ECU are just computers like a laptop. And over time the PCB can and do develope hairline cracks. A swap shouldn't take more than a half hour and at least you could rule that out as the cause. Give it a shot.

[@Evocati-Augusti]

I just watched a video and i think I know what it is...let me find the video

[@AutoAutopsy]

Sold the car a year ago so no need! 😅

[@setha7781]

Hate to be that guy, but DIC?

[@sonyhk3824]

First 👍 💯

[@AutoAutopsy]

😁

[@larryshark4580]

I know why this turbo is not working right. Because this is SaaB