Strong Army Lists After the Big 40K Changes? Eight Top Lists!

[@theaquess]

Man I love how its the same thousand sons list from like three months ago, except now its got one less infernal master. God we need more models.

[@Noalak]

You can extend to 18 months, with 1 less character and rubric unit.

[@Atom-Phyr]

Word is they are blending the 'God' marines with their respective Daemons. That'll pad out the selections. Thousand Sons need new SO Terminators. They are really small now compared to the new chunky loyalist miniatures. Hopefully you'll get good stuff. Got a friend who's not long started TS army.

[@alexmauney9705]

Best we can do is Tzaangor on Unicycle

[@Louiscypher93]

*Agrees in Grey Knight*

[@elkaballus4693]

Some say we can expect a new automaton unit, something like 30k TS castellax. But i personally expect nothing and don't wait for improvements. I find it a good way to deal with GW games

[@johndoe6737]

>called warrior onlslaught >3 Exocrines, 3 Maleceptors and 3 Tryannofex. Aight those are warriors alright

[@PartNinja]

I mean half the models are warriors.

[@robotclaw22]

"Half" ​@@PartNinja

[@PartNinja]

@@robotclaw22 Yeah 12/24 models are warriors. That's 9-11 more than any other model. I would say this list is in fact Warrior heavy in that regard.

[@tzarl]

@@PartNinja I mean by that logic most invasion fleet lists are actually gargoyle/hormagaunt/termagant lists. When 3/4 of your list is shooty monsters and a hair over 1/5 of your list is warriors I don't think you can really make an argument that it's "warrior heavy" in much of any regard. The list is even named "Wasn’t this supposed to be the ”warrior” detachment" as a tongue-in-cheek reference to that.

[@johannes8270]

Taking the 3x3 is pretty much detatchmentagnostic anyways😅

[@MegatronYES]

Pro tip: buy literally every army and you will therefore always have the strongest

[@deathbringer9893]

how much would having every army be?

[@stevenschnepp576]

​@@deathbringer9893 Everything.

[@tim8215]

1 3d printer

[@Lowlandlord]

And the weakest.

[@kylewalek]

Games Workshop wrote this lol

[@acrilk]

Glad to see Retaliation Cadre still doing alright, it is a balm to my soul - dropping a squad of Sunforge lads in alongside Farsight was a lot of fun, still sad it got hit so hard with the nerf(s) - nice to see Broadsides getting some play too.

[@im_flat]

The marker drones in the Crisis teams is very interesting. Wonder what the reasoning is.

[@pajugarline6121]

14 wounds on the squad, avoiding bring it down points. And also no comver capabilities​@@im_flat

[@Pajamas.Tepanek]

@@im_flatProbably a bit of flexibility, stealth suits can’t cover every sight line and if they get popped you’ve still got guiding.

[@lukasarnoldy144]

@@im_flati main tau and follow the competitive scene closely, one of the main reasons is that the crisis teams can get lines of sight that your other guiding units won’t be able to get through their deepstrikes. also people tend to blow up your guiding stealth suits in the first few turns if they can so having more guiding helps the army operate smoothly. bring it down is also a reason

[@jackobn.m.g.4806]

​@@im_flat the 6 shots from drones are mostly insignificant, you can just swap them for markelight for more flexibilty with your crisis

[@TotallyNotJustCynical]

That orks list is almost EXACTLY what i love to see being played. What else is needed aside from a ton of boyz and Ghaz?

[@boshhh123]

Love all the options available for Ork lists

[@SUPEROGRE5000]

I love that Orks are viable. Just fun to play

[@olsfaust17]

Buggies is what else!

[@duskcrane4317]

I love my boyz, but I love those crazy vehicles more. Always fun to kitbash them together.

[@SeLu1987]

I just finished watching the previous video and here's another one dropping, this guy is a legend

[@mikerive4970]

Dark angels was actually lions blade I seen on another channel but detachment not on app yet

[@auspextactics]

Ah was it really, I was wondering if that could be a possibility given the units chosen. I would have guessed they'd have written it in the free text, but maybe not!

[@Amos-61]

I feel like the Lion is just worse than Guilliman in most situations and that makes salty as a dark angels player. I'd like to see a rule like being able to choose between being ravenwing or deathwing at the beginning of the battle (not both to not make him super overpowered in the grotmas detachment). That way he'd actually synergize with his faction's detachments. Well mostly the grotmas one because the core buffs of the inner circle task force are mostly for deathwing infantry and the ones for company of hunters is for mounted, not ravenwing but at least he'd be able to use some stratagems. I have thought deeply about it and it wouldn't make him THAT much stronger because yes in the grotmas detachment if you give him the deathwing keyword, he could get a 7" charge out of deepstrike but so could a 360 points terminator unit or a 250 points deathwing knights unit, the pseudo heroic intervention one that got people fuming is only for deathwing INFANTRY or WALKER so he wouldn't be able to use it. If you give him the ravenwing keyword he makes the enemy take some desperate escape tests and help deathwing units charge but realistically he'll probably render whatever unit he's in melee with combat ineffective and he costs 315 points, almost 4 times as much as an outrider squad that could proc the same buffs, the things he could realistically do with the ravenwing keyword are using the +1 to wound stratagem from shooting something with his pistol and triggering the durability stratagem of the fight phase. I haven't even mentioned the fact that it would not buff him at all in the core codex detachments like gladius. In my games with the Lion, I can usually charge something, murder it but then he gets clapped back and, since he's a 315 points unit, he probably hasn't killed his points cost in one turn I can tell you that much. So I do think he needs something because his aura abilities are pretty weak too, I mean they are situationally useful but the FNP against mortal wounds is match-up dependant, the buff to weapon skill is usually pretty insignificant because of its range and the fact that deathwing knights, the unit that is always taken as melee brawlers and anvil of the army, hits on 2s and the one that can deny a stratagem needs the enemy to fail battle shock, so it happens once in in a blue moon and the CP you farm doesn't actually matter if you have Azrael on the board (you should he's great). All of that to say, give the Lion the keywords he deserves, it would not make him overpowered, it would just give him a bit of synergy in his chapter's detachments and I think that's smarter way of buffing him than cutting his points, his auras are pretty weak too but I guess that's fine and it's a way harder change than a sentence in a datasheet that says you can have a keyword. Holy shit I just ranted for so long.

[@recapdrake]

You’re absolutely right. Lion’s “buff” was just fixing his sweep so it was actually better at killing chaff than his strike profile like it was supposed to be. It really did not necessitate as much of a points increase as he received. As many keep pointing out, Lion is only a beat stick. He doesn’t do anything else so if he at least could interact with the wing keywords that gives him something else to do.

[@psyclonis5150]

Tbh, they need to return the Lion's Forest Walk ability, or change it. Either he can blend into the shadows and appears elsewhere on the board, like Ynnead. Or make the ability for him to blend in with the shadows and go back into reserve. He deep strikes back in with 6 wounds left. He's the best duelist Primarch. GW needs to make it happen.

[@rickkcir2151]

His “all secrets revealed” ability should definitely have more range. 12” is basically the unit that the Lion is currently fighting. If there’s more then he’s surrounded and the opponent likely doesn’t have to use a strategy anyway. It’s an ability that looks good on paper. But then you realize you get practically no value out of it. It feels like they wanted an antithesis to Guilliman’s supreme strategist that effectively gives a free stratagem to a unit within 12”. But GW failed to realize it’s way easier to get value out of that since you’re always going to have an Astartes unit within 12” of Guilliman, and YOU are the one using the strategy. I think the Lion’s range should be increased by at least double to 24”. Martial exemplar should be +1 to wound for astartes melee within 6”. Not +1 to hit. Most of our melee is hitting on 2+ anyway. +1 to hit isn’t completely useless. But if need be we still have OoM. No hiding from the watchers should instead be a FNP 5+ for astartes within 6”. Instead of a FNP 4+ against mortals within 6”. Makes it more general purpose. Especially since some Dark Angel units already have access to a FNP against mortals. Lastly, he should be able to pick two of his abilities like Guilliman can now. I don’t know why in the same dataslate they made that rule change for Guilliman, but not the Lion. Also yes, he should have the Deathwing keyword. I don’t even think it would be too strong for him to have both Deathwing and raven wing at all times.

[@Amos-61]

@rickkcir2151 Another idea I had for his "all secrets revealed" ability was to make it like the swarmlord or callidus, and it's just +1 to the CP cost around him so that people actually think twice about using stratagems around him. Giving a 5+ FNP blanket might be excessive especially when the Lion has a 3+ invuln and can have deathwing knights around him which are already very hard to kill, if you actually wanted to go that route his points cost should and would increase massively. Maybe a 6+ FNP would be more appropriate ? It's not very big but it would be something and I think a 5+ would be too much. Also it's good you mentioned it because I didn't think of it at the time but yeah a lot of deathwing units already have a watcher in the dark for a 4+ FNP against mortal wounds so that buff can be pretty redundant, like the one for the weapon skill. Speaking of, a +1 to wound in melee instead of +1 to hit would make him into a big chaplain but for his cost that could be fair, I like that idea and it's not in shooting so it wouldn't be mega crazy for gunlines (even though guilliman gives double oath with +1 to wound) and would help the strength 5 to 8 of most power weapons punch up, all around it would make the ability relatively balanced (I'd be fine with a points increase) and not be practically useless like it is currently. Anyway thanks for your reply !

[@BlackKaiserDrake]

I’m all for 1-2 Tyrannofexes, but 3? Jesus Christ someone hurt that man with armor in a game one day. Also damn that Bile list is similar to mine.

[@CalfOnTheRun]

They were probably the flamer ones

[@levisdarkness4239]

​@CalfOnTheRun doesn't it specify that they're rupture cannons?

[@BlackKaiserDrake]

@@CalfOnTheRun Video says Rupture Cannon only.

[@purestrain3099]

Yeah that mans meta is 100% knights lol

[@jacobiholmstrom]

Someone sure have, but who’s laughing now? 😅

[@357Dejavu]

How are the former leaders doing? Like the guard and GSC?

[@hollyd8989]

£17 Shipping for a pack of £28 Dice. I don't think so somehow

[@Atom-Phyr]

@@hollyd8989 I had to go with my friend to GW. He's fairly new and a bit of a magpie. The store manager, while a nice bloke, is a ruthless salesman. I had to stop him buying one of their over priced, branded water cups for painting. Thing was around £7-8. He collects World Eaters and last time he went by himself he got up sold a set of Imperial Guard pin badges relating to the Gaunts Ghosts campaign in lore. He didn't even know what they really were until I told him. 🤦🤷

[@vahlok2568]

That Firestorm list is exactly what Ive been thinking about once I realized there was a transport heavy detachment. Not big of flamers and Anvil still caters to Gravis more but I feel like basically exactly what he did would be so fun to play.

[@Majere613]

I wonder how long it'll take GW to work out that Firestorm now does everything Bringers of Flame used to do, only more reliably, with tougher units, and with a hell of a lot more options. In any case it looks like play rates and win rates for Sisters are already beginning to crater, so good job there.

[@zaganim3813]

as it should be!!! SPACE MARINUES HUAHHAHHH

[@MiniMike_80]

Haha, nice to see the Canoptek Court is still working when everyone says it’s dead. Obviously, depends who is playing it as usual 😉

[@maciekwilkosz6377]

What's the reasoning for Lysander in IF list? Is he good with no Terminators?

[@Majere613]

I'd imagine it's because he can pop a 2++ for a single phase, so he can be used to pinch an Objective or pull off a clutch action whilst making it require an ungodly amount of shooting to get rid of him. Also if someone does ignore him that hammer of his is capable of putting a very big hole in something important.

[@codename1176]

@@Majere613 also he has deep strike. So he could force the opponent to sit on a flank objective with a unit.

[@RockyX123]

Imperial Fists actually have a good list? I'll be dam

[@bearnolen3584]

What were the Battleline units?

[@codename1176]

@@bearnolen3584it didn’t run any

[@bearnolen3584]

@@codename1176 ??? How is that a legal list?

[@codename1176]

@@bearnolen3584 a battle line unit is not required. The only thing required is a character unit generic or named to make your warlord.

[@bearnolen3584]

@@codename1176 dang...

[@anniedarkheart5224]

Pretty cool surprise to see War Dogs Huntsmen on one of the lists. Was not on my Bingo card!!!

[@gavinziozios1431]

Seriously? Huntsman is a staple in most of my lists. Great vehicle hunter or lane blocker. I use him with those armies that struggle with armour, like my daemons

[@anniedarkheart5224]

@@gavinziozios1431 That's super neat that you do or say that you do. However, yes, it is surprising to see it on performing lists, let alone channels like this that pick a few lists to showcase. Just for the ease of searching lists for some quick stats... in World Champ lists, only 1 of 10 Daemon lists brought War Dogs and it was the Karnivore. Death Guard had 11 lists, 8 brought War Dogs. 7 Lists had Brigands and 1 had Karnivores. No other Chaos Faction brought Knight allies. 0 Huntsman were used. Feel free to search more exhaustively - seeing a Huntsman would be an extreme rarity.

[@gavinziozios1431]

@anniedarkheart5224 Yeah, mine has trumped most of my other war dogs. Made his name in a 2k game between DG and Necrons. Got jumped by two 3-man units of canoptek wraiths on the center objective and brought him down to a single wound. He then proceeded to blast and chop them down until there was one left. He reclaimed the point and killed 5 out of 6 wraiths, leaving one with 2 wounds. All at a single wound. Huntsman war dogs are awesome when used right

[@Cornerboy73]

Happy new year everyone ❤

[@koendeprez9815]

No surprise to see the Dark Angels still running Gladius

[@mikerive4970]

It wasn’t gladius it was lions blade but not a available on app yet

[@SlickSodaProductions]

You know, the list being Lion’s Blade and not Gladius somehow makes sense with the Army Comp

[@Arnok811]

Stormlance is still pretty good, advance and charge for the entire army with a reactive move is very solid.

[@Furtuim]

Shout out to the Rogue State Games folks! Great bunch of guys!

[@Mejirosama]

I´m totally in love with this T´au list! This is why I got into this army (on a point, where they are on the bottom of winning lists, just because I like the battlesuits) :D ...maybe I should buy more crisis suits... a lot...

[@lemanruss22]

Seeing bolt aggressor instead of flame is odd. I get the weight of dice but the strat for mortals on flamers with them is so good

[@cjfrench89]

I wonder if that gladius DA list is actually Lion’s Blade just mislabelled? Seems like the bikes, Sam and the ATV are there to get the benefit of the detachment rule, and the ballistus with the other ravenwing making use of the +1 to wound strat

[@공대갈-i4j]

Ravenwing units got major buffs, so I think it would make sense to use them in Gladius too? Lion's Blade seems fun, but it does require specific scenarios to gain max benefits

[@mikerive4970]

It was

[@gabrieljohnston3964]

The key to playing Retaliation Cadre, the detachment based on battlesuits, is to run Battlesuits. Pew Pew 🔫

[@LordCrate-du8zm]

IMPERIAL FISTS BROS WE ARE SO BACK

[@SturmfaustHobbies_Games]

Rogue State Games getting notice? Hell yeah, great spot, great people!

[@pandab13r]

There are so many characters!

[@tzarl]

The Tyranid list is basically what I expected the end-result of the new detachment to be. Using as few ranged warriors as you can get away with to use the ignore cover strat to set up the rest of your competitive-staple monster gunline. Warriors are so fragile (even with the detachment) so why try to damage-check with profiles that disappear to mass D3 weapons (a very commonly spammed profile to deal with elites), when you can instead just rely on the monster gunline that is like 90% of all tyranid competitive lists and actually do reliable, focused damage while still damage-checking with even more durable profiles.

[@Paeper_Shredder]

Yeah, this just feels like gun lists just with a splash of new Warrior flavor.

[@hrtattk2187]

That imperial fist list is also over 2000 points

[@DarthJeffery-st5lk]

I thought 1 deathwing knight squad was bad fighting 3 must be a dam nightmare!!

[@Seijik4702]

Sees new list of winning armies. No Starshatter. *SCOFFS* Knew it.

[@ТлазолтБезликий]

С наступившим новым годом)

[@dakotafinley6339]

What exactly is giving gahz rerolls? I think I'm just missing something

[@trevor190]

Please enable automatic audio translation, I would really appreciate it for your videos.

[@XHobbiesPrime]

First hour gang. Insomnia really helping out here!

[@Dethectic]

Not for CES time

[@ulricwhitewolf6346]

What do you think of BullyBoyz detachment?

[@Atom-Phyr]

Last time I was this early all my models were made of lead. 😅

[@margreiv]

Sororitas got shat on and are not even remotely mentioned. Roflcopter

[@thebatman8957]

Woo, I'm so excited for everything to get nerfed before I get a chance to play again

[@TheDenandbattlehall]

im glad to see my bois of the greater good is hitting but kroot are fun but never do want i want for the points

[@piet521]

happy new jear

[@viciaoalwow95]

Imperial Fists winning something (I mean just winning ONE game its amazing)... I'm going to cry.

[@vxicepickxv]

They won 4 games in that tournament.

[@viciaoalwow95]

@vxicepickxv I know. I was saying that for Imperial Fists (in years) winning JUST one game is a miracle haha

[@TheAHuman]

Tyranids I would say a strong list is Assimilation Swarm. The buffs have made it quite viable and honestly it’s probably my favorite detachment we have now. The strats can do some absolutely diabolical things. You can literally just revive on death for a single CP.

[@DottorHealer]

So are the Genestealer Cult still playale or they were nerfed to uselesness?

[@ZaZi-Zeta01]

Too early to say, as he said in his disclaimer these are more outlier stats

[@zissoulander]

The Cult Ambush rule was a strategic buff not an RNG nerf. For the people who are good with GSC they'll know how to bring back the exact units they want instead of hoping for the 50/50.

[@vxicepickxv]

They're a bit trickier to play, so it's best to let the dust settle. It looks like Final Day might actually be a good start for a list.

[@thetroubleshooter7108]

What about DW?

[@lilpotayto]

*cries in Sororitas*

[@hrtattk2187]

The dark angels list is over 2000 points

[@johnduke2950]

1940 without enhancements, though you would think so with the dreadnaught and Deathwing knight spam

[@johnduke2950]

My mistake, exactly 2000 forgot the invader atv

[@hrtattk2187]

@@johnduke2950oh I put the list on the Warhammer app it puts the list at 2015 points

[@Whoknows21356]

Let’s not act like the tyranids list won because of the warrior detachment haha. Just a monster mash per usual

[@Ezrol1994]

A real testement to how crazy powerful Codex Marines are rn when you see someone other than Ultramarines actually come close to winning a tournament. Albeit a small one.

[@tommasoferri5240]

Thank you so much man for all your efforts, you're my favourite youtuber and my n.1 source of Warhammer knowledge

[@mattyorshin]

The tyranid list is exactly the same as all list tbh

[@Dethectic]

Well well, the super godly OP Necron detachment is nowhere to be seen.. given more tournament data is required. Can't wait to see how it performs against most people's criticism.

[@TheSkinBlog5270]

I’m on 2/14 win rate with it… had a few god awful dice games but most have been from new insane rules just outdoing me. Spacemarine reactive move and charge in blood angels is appallingly good. Doomsday arks getting melted by close combat knives is just sad.

[@123123Bear]

Ngl the thousand sons list i so pretty

[@Srapmetal_Dragon]

Combat patrol is launching in german speaking countries next month~

[@minevere]

that nid list is disgusting

[@psyclonis5150]

How can Tau Commanders have quad fusion? It says they can up to 3.

[@LuckySolshot]

Rules say you can equip up to "three ranged weapons or support systems" on top of the rule to " switch the default burst cannon for any available ranged weapon" thus allowing you to equip four ranged weapons if you leave out a support system

[@rejectagriculture2608]

absolute legend

[@captnwinkle]

A winning Tyranid lost with ZERO close combat, yay!....NAT!!!

[@bobbobertbobberton1073]

Shmelamabum.

[@Damnedlegion40k]

Add a comment...😮

[@jaesistich3218]

Comment added! 🫡

[@Damnedlegion40k]

@jaesistich3218 happy new year

[@guillempons4854]

Brilliant job but, mate, do you even sleep?

[@jaanikaapa6925]

The Swedish tyranid thing is the worst nightmare from SM2 game.

[@mathiasschulze6148]

I never understand why infiltrators are so much more popular then Intercessors. You can do so much stuff with the intercessors, they are great for objectivs and secondary missions.

[@Whoknows21356]

I don’t see how you don’t understand. A 12 inch bubble of no DS is pretty big

[@Atom-Phyr]

They block deep strike within 12" radius. That's huge board control. Especially when some units have abilities that allow them drop much closer than the normal 9".

[@miguelperez9906]

Deeepstrike is a pain in the butt blocking that is way better than the other options

[@im_flat]

Space Marines are good at big damage, worse at objectives. Being able to sit a squad down and not have to worry about your deployment zone is pretty big.

[@Acorbet86]

Prevention of deep strike is fantastic.

[@lexamex3526]

9 seconds ago??

[@dancallan7907]

Whats winning right now and a thumbnail featuring none of my armies? Good. Nothing makes me happier when my armies are midtable mediocrity. Means we wont be nerfed to the ground or have constant tiresome changes.

[@caceres-olazo2951]

Broski its 4 am please sleep

[@veiddimaddur8354]

9am here in the UK

[@okletar8908]

Take a break lmao

[@Cake92077]

I just assume he pre records these videos

[@ZaZi-Zeta01]

​@Cake92077 So did I, then I saw the videos addressing changes that were initiated day-of

[@scolack123]

​@@ZaZi-Zeta01 Easy enough to edit a simple power point and record a few lines

[@ZaZi-Zeta01]

@@scolack123 True, true. Longer than one would think, though

[@mekanized215]

Don’t listen to him, keep it coming! Get that money.

[@BadmanOfBanterbury]

Cowards play IF Ironstorm. Men play IF Anvil.

[@TheLordNoodles]

Imperial guard: gone. Reduced to atoms

[@wyatttyson7737]

I’ve been told by reliable sources (people who don’t know the difference between a Catachan and a Kasrkin) that Guard is still super strong S-tier even though we lost our crutch units. I said the same thing when every list was Bullgyrn spam: nerf 1 unit and the winrate falls. I wont be surprised if our winrate is sub 40% when events start picking up again.

[@mtrunkello]

Brother you will have your codex in 1 month. Do you really care that much how shit or good your army is for 1 month when after that the whole army will play completely differently?

[@jw7500]

Wait, what's that? I think I can hear the sound of many Scion armies being dusted off to commit tournament crimes with Bridgehead.

[@stevenschnepp576]

​@@mtrunkello As someone who hasn't played a game since 7th, *yes.*

[@mtrunkello]

@@stevenschnepp576 as someone who hasnt played since 7th you out of all people shouldnt care the least as you will learn soon to be outdated rules.

[@OttoServe]

You sir, need help.

[@Jonathan-yu9ui]

First, finally!

[@mathiasschulze6148]

Sad life goal...

[@ZaZi-Zeta01]

​@mathiasschulze6148What makes you think it's a life goal? You're telling me you've never had a small thing you've been oddly attached to because the opportunity for it comes up so often?

[@ThomBara-x3c]

I mean Auspex...you gotta stop posting the same video every .3 nanoseconds...

[@Miggy19779]

No no this is good. With changes happening so regularly it's nice to know who does well after the updates

[@johnnyohm4579]

If ranged warriors seem like an interesting pick over melee warriors to you, it’s bc you don’t understand the way the detachment works. That’s okay, just say so

[@frostmagemarii]

Son can finally answer his dad and tell him he is winning.