Do Narcissists Know That You Are Stuck in a Trauma Bond? with Lee Hammock and Lisa Sonni

[@harmonyvaneaton4101]

You were married. They never were. They had a spouse, a friend, a faithful person, someone in love with them. You NEVER did. Not for one day. Not even your wedding day.

[@StopSignsAreReal]

This ☝️

[@nicolabenjamin2661]

Wow!

[@nicolabenjamin2661]

This the best advice I could ever have. Feel sorry for them.

[@JanetMitchell-y8i]

Truth!!!

[@nicolabenjamin2661]

But it still hurts so much. I’ve been a mess since I found out my ex had got married. I have never felt so worthless. Not pretty enough, not smart enough, not valuable enough not loveable enough. Just something to be used and tossed. I loved him with everything I had. It wasn’t enough for him. He strung me along for years and married her in less than 6 months. The pain is unbearable.

[@Shut-up-Shelly]

They want the old “yes” person…or punishment ensues. You are not allowed to tell a narc “no” they will make your life hell for it!

[@LessettFoster479]

Exactly 💯💯💯💯💯💯

[@theresahuk-vallarino6100]

When I met him 6.5 years ago, he had me get tested in case I had AIDS. It was herpes 2 that I contracted from him. I was a widow committed to my late husband, who passed from suicide. I attracted the Narcissist due to childhood trauma. Recently, I disconnected from mom and thanks to nephew who raged at me for not keeping the peace. Narcissists get what they order: you deliver to keep them happy.

[@marilynbenjamin1]

This conversation validated many of my experiences with my ex-narcissist. It was helpful to hear from a self-aware narc about instinctual behavior and how they learn how to perfect their abusive skills. My ex-narc never said I'm sorry for anything...ever. Even when he knew he messed up. So everyone's experiences are different, but great discussion. Please do more! I love that Lisa asked questions from the survivor's perspective. She is my current coach and has helped me so much!!!!

[@strongerthanbefore]

Thank you!

[@Narcissisticsurvivor47]

@@marilynbenjamin1 the narc I dealt with apologized because the monkey jump didn't work out as planned..Odd thing about it was she apologized for the beginning and ending..I asked her what about all the things in between instant narcissistic injury unbeknownst to me at the time she went into hiding a little bit more but tried using my son to ask me to take her back..I politely said to my son that me and his mother have a hard time getting along we view life differently and there's no way I'd ever be able to accept her but I'll always be his father..Haven't heard from her since October 2024 I'm sure she's going through hell but my only concern is my child because I haven't seen him in 2yrs 🙏

[@janellesmith6049]

You become addicted to the hormonal responses of the highs and lows. When they take you low, you believe only they can take you high again. Bonus problems if you've got abandonment wounds...

[@Riverlovesfood]

It’s kind of like a placebo effect because they actually make u feel worse but u believe the opposite so u think they make u better but it’s just placebo

[@santalenacaudillo1185]

Thank You for creating this content. Very validating for the complete no contact decision I made a few months ago. “They are not so much worried about You, as they are worried about themselves. I need to get MY needs met…”

[@strongerthanbefore]

Yes! Exactly.

[@HeSaidICouldntDoIt]

Yep saying NO will do it every time! Ended my 23 year marriage. Thank God I FINALLY caught on! ❤

[@harmonyvaneaton4101]

My abuser tried to say relationships need pain (mine) or then I wouldn't appreciate the "good" moments. It's sort of true. Once you're experiencing terror, lack of extreme rage and abuse feels pretty good, and all you ask for is not to be brutalized, nothing more asked of the abuser and they get a slave.

[@brightpage1020]

Raise your standards, please. 🙏 You are worth at least basic human rights. As a bare minimum. Let alone the same level of respect you give them. If they don’t return that level of respect, then that’s an unhealthy relationship. And you get to make fresh decisions about what you want for your life, now. Phew! 😅

[@buddhaintruda]

Wow. This kind of interview is so interesting. A conversation with a recovering narcissist. I really like him. Very honest

[@sarahanderson9181]

Oh , hell yes they know!! At fhe beginning the narc ex actually used to tell people that I was locked in his cellar and I had Stockholm syndrome! Of course everyone thought he was joking and so did I at the time. Guess what? He soon showed me who he really was and I put up with soooo much abuse. I've been away from him now for 7 months and I am still trauma bonded but I'm getting stronger by the day.

[@coreyhabbas]

“Narcissists use you like resources”- Well said! That summarizes my experience exactly! I’m so glad it was only 6 months. After going Gray Rock and “playing dead” so to speak I got peace and that was another truth, I got “clear on who they are”. I made a log that spanned months and when I would go back to read it I knew exactly what I was dealing with. Good riddance! Thank you for this video. This was an awesome discussion and interaction.

[@TRdoFbS]

I must admit I truly admire both of you!! To get his perspective as a narcissistic who is in therapy to be better to his family, & you, a survivor helping all of us who have been through this abuse is really helpful!! Thank you, both!! ❤

[@strongerthanbefore]

Thank you for saying this!

[@Narcissisticsurvivor47]

They know..The narcissist I dealt with mentioned trauma bond but you know how they project..So once I started learning about narcissistic abuse most of the things that were being said were things that I learned were things used by narcissistic people..Never again 🙏

[@speedy2426]

Lee. You most definitely are my favorite self aware narcissist. 😎

[@antheredhen]

Write it ALL down so if you escape you can read it (as needed) and not be influenced to return to the abuse!

[@pauline-v3b]

I had a very bad childhood with an alcoholic malignant stepfather bordering on psychopath I reakon , my mother stopped talking to me completely at age 9 because it made my stepfather insecure or uncomfortable or jealous , so I spent a decade alone by myself in my room but not in peace because I'd hear his loud verbal abuse through the door " you're a shitbox who will never amount to anything !!!". When I later got boyfriends I attract narcissists, been trauma bonded. My mum is a covert one. Today I am the strongest most resilient person you could ever meet but it's taken years to get here. If a narcissist gaslighted or abused me, I'd laugh in their face unaffected I'm so strong. Also I can identify a narcissist in 1 second to 30 minutes and the type of.

[@audreymickens4390]

Great conversation. Why does a Narcissist hate it when you ask questions about feelings or why they refuse to talk/communicate?

[@dmt7674]

Because being vulnerable would tell you everything they are doing.

[@ruthgrace-sw5uj]

They can't connect to their feelings bc they are too overwhelming , that's why they have to have a fake personality to take over, it's a negative personality to keep ppl away

[@trishajohnson7339]

Go get that restraining order if possible or get a no trespass order! It puts the boundaries in place you and the narcissist need to break the bond so you break your addiction, can move forward and heal!

[@bexsolo369]

My ex would breakup with me all the time, especially when he was working out of town.... but then he'd later say that we never broke up.

[@brightpage1020]

How much sense does that make to you now?

[@chalalala9204]

Gaslighting at its best!

[@ebonylo.]

I hope that you got tested.

[@ashleykathryn9038]

The we didn't actually break up is such a mind bending thing to go through 😂

[@MarySaenz-r4z]

Oh, YOU misunderstood....

[@pangvidal]

Such a great interview … great questions and I love Lee

[@aizzamoque5569]

He came home with an expensive cologne once and told me that someone in times square subway station gave it to him for 20 bucks and ran off when he tried to pay him more for it. It was from a girl he was messing with from his work who gave it to him

[@strongerthanbefore]

They are so creative LOL. Oh my goodness.

[@MatrixofLife]

@@strongerthanbeforeyes they are amazingly creative with their lies

[@monicafuston2349]

I am personally heavily trauma bonded to my narc husband of 26 yrs this October. We have 5 adult children, to which I am now seeing those behaviors/tendencies from my narc husband in them, and their behavior towards me. Thanks for taking the time help us going through this know we are not crazy.

[@52cardsFacedown]

They won't leave.... Um no he's created a world where he won't leave. He'll be homeless, he'll harm himself, he'll do something stupid... And other, just as insane, things being yelled at me as I try to stand my ground. Even when the state placed a restraining order on him.. his whole family turned up for that guilt trip.. guess who picked him up from jail for a domestic violence charge??. It was a constant beating down of my empathy.. "if you love me." "Prove you love me" "I still love you (in a tone specifically after things that they didn't like about me were exposed such as liking sushi) Making me feel guilty for going on a state fair ride.. something he knows I've always enjoyed and done growing up... I haven't been to the fair since then... We are years out now. I haven't had a real recognition of my efforts in just as long, it feels like. I'm leaving in 15 days and not turning back... He is sulking at an exponential rate.. but if I remind him that three weeks ago he admitted to date raping a friend (possibly while we were together) and another affair... And I just snapped. This man has raped me and he cried about someone he treated like trash when we were all still friends... Oh yeah she was a friend of our group and his best friend's little brother's girlfriend and mother of his child.. I've officially reached my cap.. the cheating should have been enough, the emotional neglect should have been enough, the rape especially, but waiting until I was feeling like we had a chance and I was asking him to help me find a new place for us because we hate our current place.... I'm rambling and strung out right now.. tonight has been yet another awful night.. He says I bait him but he will lay on such a thick layer of guilt with it that I believe him sometimes.. but tonight while I was talking about how it hasn't been fair we've discarded my family (and this is me being kind about the things he has said about my family.) and he took a quick stab at how shitty my parents are while I was saying to stop talking about my family.. I asked him to explain what he meant and he threw a tantrum and called me a bully.

[@renarich4942]

Leave immediately

[@unrulypeasantr3911]

You are in grave danger. LEAVE. Locate your nearest county women's shelter or domestic violence help line for resources.

[@JJTenby]

Wow you guys! Thank you both so much!

[@cathyjennings5580]

Thanks much 🙂😊

[@thereallisa1]

They are mad at you for not allowing them to keep abusing and hurting you. Smh

[@cathyjennings5580]

So so so insightful information. Obsession/ Addiction to them, each other. Power & CONTROL ATTACHED, getting my needs met. Puppets, Victims, must break FREE & grounded in Truth Reality, GOOD SENSE stand . 😊❤😊😊

[@cathyjennings5580]

Emotional ADDICTION ROLLER COASTER: UPS & DOWNS !!! Ahhh

[@MarySaenz-r4z]

THANK YOU for explaining this!

[@emjayweise8324]

Yes they know.

[@jaialaiwarrior]

Thank you for this video. Very validating to hear from someone on the inside explaining the needed survival skills.

[@craz4mom]

Left my narcissist after finally realizing all the troubles we had, the marriage counseling, therapy didn't work. As things got worse and I was learning narcissism I knew I had to get out. I am about to become 70yrs old, lost my bank acct to this person, gave up my own house - I have been diminished to a few odd my own personal things I have had for a lifetime. I finally had the last straw in the relationship and planned to get out - and I did - no contact - moved back to my family in another state - waiting to be divorced and have prepared for that. Have a question to put out there - in all your dealings with narcissism- do you find that the more older "victims" of narcissism have a more easier time leaving the relationship compared to very younger ppl in the relationship. I tend to think that bc I have lived my life and am older I can more easily not let things get to me?

[@antheredhen]

I'll be in the same boat. 54 leaving everything but my books and clothes. Moving in with family 1,500 miles away. I think as we age we just get fed up and don't care if we are alone. Young people need someone, anyone.

[@brightpage1020]

Btw this convo between you 2 is ❤🎉 *SO* powerful!!!!! Feeling very grateful for this discussion. Thank you for the inspiration. Love your works! Your work is so moving and transformative. Each of you. So grateful for this support you offer here through convos like this. Thank you! 🙏 🎉❤

[@jeskahaley9616]

I struggle with it because I left my narc ex. And he was truly heart broken and sick. I think he was also selfish (he wasn’t as concerned with why I left or what he did to hurt me, as he was that he was alone) but he was jealous for me and he lost a ton of weight. He is like half narc and half normal. It’s confusing. I truthfully know he never cheated but he was the most selfish man I ever dated. But I struggle because I was the one that left him and blocked him and hurt him but now he keeps trying to come back in my life and treat me like crap. I won’t sleep with him, but he wants that I know that that’s what he wants his relationships with the last few girls weren’t working. He’s lonely now he wants to try to come back to me just like you said I don’t let him.

[@antheredhen]

That's where I will be.. He'll be heartbroken because his audience is gone.. I sit quietly for hours listening to his monologs.. I never say no. Just go along to get along.. He'll miss the maid, cook and cat litter cleaner (cats he wanted that I clean up after).

[@daphen0m]

This shit is making me angry. Definitely dealt with this and I don't wish it on anyone

[@adeleincorvaia5336]

I know what you mean, this was making me angry also

[@elizabethday4509]

When I gave my kid's dad a second chance he would be upset because I wasn't acting the way he thought I should. Or let the past go I would clearly state to him I'm not the same person I used to be you love the person I used to be that person no longer exists too much has happened for me to be that person anymore he would get so upset about that but then at the same conversation would expect me to look past the same behaviors that he did to me the first time we were together the only difference it's not as Intense or as violent because he was sober but the abuse the neglect the name calling. The shity nicknames the devaluation was still there. This time he couldn't blame it on drugs though sober and then in the same situation he would tell me I'm not as bad as I used to be I don't do what I used to do to you but then also deny the things he did to me

[@jeskahaley9616]

Wow. The whole “she’s healing” six sense thing. Demonic much? But yet he never blocked me. He waited two whole years to bug me

[@MarkFlanagan-h1o]

It's a spiritual attack! Treat is as such. You're not strong enough to defeat the author ot confusion. He's been there since the beginning and he KNOWS the desires of your wicked little heart . Moat healthy people can't beat it alone. Need prayer, law enforcement, discipline and self care.

[@lovefaith1794]

You’re telling my life story Lee with my ex everything you’re saying

[@strongerthanbefore]

Xo

[@Truthteller1s]

Seeing a narcissist smile and laugh about what they do to people makes me sick. I appreciate the video from a narcissist's perspective but these people still make me angry. They are life stealers. 🤮🤮

[@strongerthanbefore]

I hear you. I genuinely don't think he's laughing at the abuse itself, it's more him laughing at the abuser and how bad/pathetic their behavior is. He really advocates leaving abusers, never stay and hope for change. He focuses on people loving themselves enough to see through this abuse and leave. I know he's not for everyone, and I completely understand why some are just off put by him and other self aware ones online. ♥️♥️

[@Truthteller1s]

@@strongerthanbefore l really do understand where you are coming from and maybe I will be more receptive one day. My ex wasted 30 years of my life. I learned some very valuable life lessons from it, but the ripple effects on my children and myself won't ever completely end. That being said, I refuse to live like a victim. I will survive and thrive. Love your channel and content. You have helped me immensely. ❤️

[@sarahsunshine8455]

@@Truthteller1sI am so sorry to hear about the abuse that you and your children experienced and endured! It makes me feel sad 😞. However I am elated that you are aware of it now and are doing what you need to heal❣️🫶🏻☀️ I know you don’t know me, however, I am always here if you would like to talk or need to talk. Much love 💕 to you and blessed be.

[@harmonyvaneaton4101]

Lee has hurt people. It's true. He's trying to be honest, and get better in how he treats people. I understand it's upsetting.

[@victoriavitoroulis3273]

They rape your soul and stomp on it and then say .. it’s your fault

[@ruthgrace-sw5uj]

This was very enlightening and quite funny . I think it's great that he's saying they know they're being cheeky but they don't know why, I think that's good to realise they think that's how they have to be to survive. What they need is to locate why they feel like that and get some help processing which is what he also said. He said he uses ppl to regulate his emotions bc he always feels bad on the whole and only feels good if he's in his pretend heightened egotistical self ,. My conc is even though a narc is maddening and destructive they don't really want to be , they think they have to be on some level, it's not premeditated until it becomes a habit and they have to perfect the skills . My question is there is a spectrum of narcissism, how can you tell if you can teach them at all or if they can get better. Looks like this guy is in therapy

[@chelsea789]

One and a half years post break up, I had just completed a grief recovery program. He texted me the very day I had written the farewell letter as a part of the program. How did he know???

[@nicolewaters2581]

If you typed it on any electronic device, he can tap your device and read it. Or, listen to your phone conversation telling a friend about it, or talking your home. Electronics are abundant in the narc world.

[@melodywoolf171]

It isn’t that I am going to necessarily leave, I just want to be able to make that decision unencumbered by a trama bond. I don’t feel like I can make an informed decision until the trauma bond is gone, but I also don’t want to necessarily leave.

[@strongerthanbefore]

It's not impossible but it's about 150 x harder to break a trauma bond during active abuse. Every time you step forward they will pull you back in. People don't break trauma bonds and then stay in abusive relationships.

[@kaoshi_kutie]

@melodywoolf171 I don’t think the trauma bond will break UNTIL you leave. They likely won’t end things as it usually benefits themselves too much ( unless discarded for new supply) it is basically an unhealthy toxic dance the trauma bond. I pray you get the strength to leave and go NO CONTACT. ❤ they will destroy you in the end if not!!

[@reneegardner2286]

That's exactly what the trauma bond does. You're stuck!!! Because it's abuse. You don't love this person and he doesn't love you either.

[@karlhorrigan8201]

Good video from pair of you 👍🏻

[@SanctifiedLady]

My ex at 21-22 he was just learning his craft. He kept me at arms length emotionally mostly but because he was young and comfortable he was able to share the abuse he faced in his childhood… locks on refrigerator and mental turmoil on going. He acted like a roommate that didn’t want anyone near me or looking at me… more because he was living on me free. So he was fearful he’d lose housing. End the end he said I was the most beautiful person in and out and that I could have any person I wanted. That’s not what he was saying before his new supply… I wasn’t exotic enough. My skin disgusted him, he didn’t want to be touched. No one would want to be with me… it’s going to hard to have someone that’s willing to be with me. He hated the female friends. Fear they would say get rid of him. In the 90’s it was called a mind wrecker.

[@MsOrganic1]

When I am done I'm done. My only warning to him was, keep doing what you're doing and the last thing you'll see is my head getting smaller. He laughed. I backed away slowly until I disappeared for an entire year. We slept together. He said welcome back. I ghosted him after that for 9+ years until he ran into me. He wanted to be friends. I said I need to think about it. Asked him directly are you gay. He said yes. Never gave him a chance to talk to me again.

[@DENISEASTUNO-ow1qz]

❤Thank you ❤

[@mahmoodal-haddad2611]

he was emotinaly abusing me. for Example, I was preparing my portfolio and he came into the room said to me is it worth it? are you really going to make it? I was stunned and scared, did not say a word. And yes I fucking made it... and was still with him until last week and when I mentioned that again what was he thinking saying that to me becaus normal people do not say such a thing... he was like that is your problem taking everthing personally and bind everything to emotions. He then SAID I might have made a wrong estimation ! ! ! and I remeber he was enjoying saying that... because I was Shock! hear me now. he went to therapy years ago just to come out to tell me I am the reason of his problems and the therapist knew I would be a problem. just wow

[@bexsolo369]

I hated when my ex went to therapy because every single time, he would come home with new put downs and more blame. He told me she said I was extremely manipulative and jealous and probably thought they were f*cking. What therapist says this? Not to mention, turns out she bought his old house and had been getting his mail.... like what??

[@isaiahaskew5753]

My ex would create situations to make me wrong in some way so he could justify all the things he was doing or would do. Like I was too good to just pick me apart and find a reason he had to create a problem. Even to the extent of wanting me to be on drugs and telling people I was on drugs… I thought it was because his mom did him wrong but I realize now he was just not able to victimize me without that because I didn’t deserve it

[@irenehamilton2981]

These people are awfuy becareful with these entities some will even force themselves on you to make you sleep with them even when you are not even ready just sick people stay away from them they are no good

[@MayTrix-v1h]

I have to do a live with you Lee

[@MarkFlanagan-h1o]

When they hoover: Stop 🛑. Cease and desist any and all communications through any platform. Any subsequent attempts to reach me will be documented and submitted for a harassment complaint; furthermore, a restraining order will be pursuaded. If the behavior persists from you and/or agents acting on your behalf, stalking charges wil be pursued. Please note: This communication pertains to all forms of communication , harassment, online inquires and /or information gathering practices.

[@edgreen8140]

They the narcissist f60.81 also have a trauma bond with their partner. They get repetatitive their manipulations can be predicted. Observation of manipulations and the push pull dynamic -intermittent reinforcement. One day the partner comes out of the fog. The partner puts boundaries up. They will trample them. The partner can increase their abandonment anxiety. When my wife goes on vacation supposedly by herself. She has a fear in her face she is leaving me to go on vacation and her face says it all. She decided to go on vacation shes gonna leave me for a week she looks like shes gonna cry her face says it all. I use observe don't absorb-. Her vendeta or need to hurt me and im like fine your leaving. She feels the abandonment even though she is the one leaving. She doesn't look strong at that momment. (There is no entitlement as a defense against dependency). The fear is on her face. Shes leaving and abandonment anxiety occurs. Some narcs are aware some are not aware these ones are usually midrange to use H.G. Tudors spectrum. They the narc do not like silence. Its a rejection - just like the rejection their care giver gave them. Silence is also effective against the narcissists manipulations. Sometimes like with a neglectful narcissist lovebombing may be a phone call to set up a vacation. Not a lot of energy. They think you are the "good "person. They the narc has many negative thoughts in their head. They see you your the good object they through cognitive distortion want to ingest you so they can be the good object. Cognitive distortion - if i ingest you you will fix me and il be the good object. Negative thoughts and introjects flood the narcissist. They would like to rid themselves of these feeling. They project their bad traits on to the partner. They fear intimacy. If they get to close you might figure out whats wrong with them. So they avoid intimacy, withhd sex. If your the parent of the children they can't ( the narc) perform sexually. But they can perform with a stranger- saint /sinner syndrome. So they cut off the sex1) they have difficulty performing or achieving orgasm. 2) they can perform sexually with someone they don't know ( sinner). Sexual trashing may occur with strangers. The person they created in their head is a perfect version but you grow and you deviate from the internal image- devaluation occurs. Your all bad. They are nice when they want something from you. They are mean when they see you deviate from the internal image or they are emotionally dysregulated. They have great difficulties in interpersonal relations.

[@reneegardner2286]

The narcissist is not trauma bonded to their victims. Their addicted to controlling you.

[@SanctifiedLady]

It was so tough the attempts boomerang… I had a breakdown in front of him…I was trying so hard not to go back in that cycle of abuse. I didn’t go back!! God was with me. From 1992-1996 then boomeranged 96-97. He came back and apologized for anything he did that hurt me. Showed me pictures of his new girlfriend and of course she was all of what I wasn’t. I told him I was happy for him, he wanted to have intercourse…that’s lets me know he cheated on me the entire time… I refused to have intimacy with him, that’s like starting crack again. “NO!” he claimed she started having child after child with her.

[@victoriavitoroulis3273]

I asked my n ex did you really love me ? Here’s are universal answer for all : He said you wouldn’t believe it . The most honest thing he said . Bc he’s right it was all a pipe dream 😵‍💫

[@neveragain733]

Narcissists dont bond to anyone or anything

[@blueheartless36]

❤❤❤!

[@paideiaproductionsmediades6037]

Question for anyone: Has anyone ever directly asked/ suggested (to the narcissist) that they have an " open relationship " & gauge their response? Im married & trying to figure out if my husband IS actually a narcissist or if his hot/cold temperment ( among other narc traits) is simply narcissism OR if its intertwining with (1) he may have PTSD due to a near death work injury to his leg (* that I nursed him back to health from) but hes now labeled permanently partially disabled. Go all been a huge blow to his ego especially since I literally had been having to help him pee & shower ect...plus he's got a lifetime of pain to look forward to so I KNOW he's only gonna get grumpier as he ages ( hes 47) and he's self isolated/ depressed but refuses to talk to any professional about the fact he will stay in bed for days and days etc... he stopped letting me attend his doctor's visits a long time ago because I started to mention to them that he was having night convulsions & twitching & his mood swings etc.. (2) we are approaching our 7th year wedding anniversary, so idk if he's been hot/cold & pushing me away because of the infamous "7 year itch'" (3) Is it part of a " mid life crisis" or the male version of menopause? I recently found out that the term is referred to as " miserable husband syndrome "😂 WOW..... and his sex drive is WAY lower than it was pre injury so idk if he's got hormonal changes, male ego issues, maybe he's self medicating or whatever.... but I always told him if he ever lost sexual interest in me then dont lie about it, just tell me and I'd respect that more than being with a cheater. He has "mother wounds" & she abandoned him & his dad twice so hes got trust issues right out the gate. He claims he hates cheaters ( his mom was one) so we both agreed at the beginning of our relationship that our deal breakers are simple: don't lie, cheat or hurt each other. But hes since lied to me and hurt me so ....there's that. I just dunno if it's his traumas OR if he's a narc or avoidant. I wasn't accusing him of cheating but I recently told him I noticed his libido is not how it used to be & he's not fulfilling my needs when he self isolates. Other times he tries to get sex BUT I have noticed he uses giving affection as a weapon or after he's done/ said something cruel to me, he does the whole love-bomb thing but I've caught on to this tactic and have been mostly ignoring it ( I'm just matching his nonchalant energy) So when he has said things ( like we should get divorced one day and then when he sees that I am upset/ ignoring his bs, then a couple days later, he's talking about fixing our relationship & all that ....) So I started researching what his issue may be & I thought well maybe he wants sex with other women so lets see how he responds with "flipping the script" & I'll gauge his reaction to ME suggesting that we can have an open relationship & of course that means I am free to date around if I want. My tone to him is that I care about both of our needs & happiness and that since he says he cares about me and its obvious I care about him enough to help him pee into a container & see to his every single need/ comfort...) Anyway, he gets super irritated by my suggestion of us in an open relationship. I told him i just wanted him to be happy and I also know I deserve to be happy. It appears he's not liking it that I have gone from being his 24/7 silent obedient servant to stepping back into my own self confidence. I even took over the spare bedroom and put all my stuff in there plus a daybed. He was SO bitter & mad about that but I told him that I realized he needed "his own space" since he wants to sleep so much or stare at tv ALL the time (* ignoring me totally) So, has anyone else ever given a narc the "lets try to have an open relationship " suggestion? How'd they react?

[@strongerthanbefore]

I've had 2 clients tell me they did this and both male narcissistic abusers lost their minds, said absolutely not and called her horrible names. One constantly accused her of cheating after. They don't actually want a poly relationship. They want to cheat. They want to get away with something. The thrill of it.

[@paideiaproductionsmediades6037]

@strongerthanbefore thank you. So do you think I'm giving him too much "grace" in his possible depression/ ptsd and he's just milking my empathy? I was trying to give him the benefit of the doubt but he seems to keep testing me & exploiting my compassion. Isn't men's midlife crisis linked to a weird compulsion to ' burn it all down' or finding their way out of facing their own mortality?

[@jaialaiwarrior]

A female narc I knew with a wild history started finally suggesting group scenarios that intrigued me in the last year, after proclaiming a strictly monogamous interest at every point previously.

[@rachelg3274]

Narcissists: They do not want any kind of relationship that they are not in control of. An open relationship doesn’t qualify, because he can’t control your other relationships. Anything you did outside the relationship would be a threat to him. He will hold it against you and punish/abuse you for it and use it to blame you for why he cheated. He doesn’t want to share you or share his other women with you. He wants his own side relationship (which is to him none of your business) and a relationship with you .. . Until he decides to discard you. If he is a narc, that is your answer. He is fine with an open relationship that is open on his end. Also, low libido can be a “front” for him cheating. You would never suspect he’s cheating if he seems to have low libido, and he can avoid having sex with you (possibly to not get caught, or if he is discarding you in his mind already, or to claim that you not having sex together is why it is over now or why he cheated).

[@brightpage1020]

Narcs on not that deep. Why are we asking what they know and how much they understand? They don’t even want to understand. They don’t care. They wouldn’t care if you were run over by a car let alone felt a trauma bond to them. They’d blame you for getting in that car’s way, and guilt or shame you for expecting them to help you in any way. We need to stop focusing on them or what’s up with them or their awareness of the situation. Stop feeling like: I can’t be ok unless the narc “gets it” or understands me Start asking: How can I be ok with me whether that person is ok with me or not? Even if they are out of sorts? How can I respect myself even when anyone else won’t offer me that level of dignity? Because is that my problem? Maybe it could be their issue, not mine. Maybe I need to be stable, rely on myself to regulate my feelings, create some healthier coping mechanisms rather than relying on them or changing their behavior or their actions to help me be ok with myself. I can’t control them. Schniekies. That sucks. They don’t respond well to my attempts to manage their behavior. Shoot. Well. There that is. What am I gonna do about that besides keep banging my head on this brick wall of their inconsiderate behavior towards me trying to change the shape of the wall? It’s brick. 🧱 I’m just burning myself up trying to keep them warm. 🔥 They’re trying to show me they aren’t worth lighting myself on fire for. Oops that’s my bad. Because here I am, right? How much further backwards could I bend? Can I pretzel this relationship into what I wish it were all by myself? No. Relationships are reciprocal. Healthy ones are. Not 1 sided. So, I can stop banging on this brick. There’s no magic door in this wall to open. No secret switch. But I can switch directions and start putting my efforts towards building the compassion and respect for myself I kept hoping they might give me. It’s not their responsibility to build my confidence. That’s up to me. My reliability. My stability. My clarity. My strength. My discipline. My health. My network of support. My finances. And I can. Because I am capable. I just need to get willing - to stop complaining about them and all the whatever they aren’t doing for me and start doing for myself or finding other sources to help me manage those things. Willing to do the work, to put those decisions of what should be done for myself rather than to that other person. I don’t even like using the word “narcissist” now. I am so sick of society labeling people, flattening them. They are 3 dimensional and their personality includes things I don’t like or get along with - it doesn’t matter who’s fault that is - what matters is how I chose to respond to that.

[@Victoria-zt7zy]

Leave.

[@critter_paws]

*trigger warning* Ref holiday ruining. Ugh almost full no contact, going to get the dog he got as a manipulation tool in the next few days then I will have no reason left to leave any lines of communication open. Friday is my bday. The bday present: (The basic breakdown of his texts) •come get dog Thursday •he will be taking a bunch of a substance to ...go away... Friday •I can come take whatever things I want from his place on Saturday Fun week ahead😅 I'm not going to be following the "plan" My plan- Getting dog sooner when he isn't home. Contacting emergency/crisis services about the other part. Maybe getting away, not sure, but I know pain, doubt, sarcasm, isolation, breathing, yoga, dog walks, journaling, lots of sleep combined with insomnia (🤷 none of it makes sense, why should sleep make sense), lots of bad days with good days creeping in eventually--->>>> Healing

[@2percenter23]

It’s smart to go get the dog before planned. These people are sick , and won’t think twice on harming the dog just to get back at you. I wish you the best. Happy early Birthday btw 😊🎉

[@critter_paws]

@@2percenter23 I've been extremely worried about that. I'm hoping I can get her today.

[@2percenter23]

@@critter_paws I hope you were able to get her today.

[@critter_paws]

@@2percenter23 💜 I'm really alone with all of this so checking in means a whole lot. It didn't seem that he went to work as he was texting when he would've been doing his morning rush. I'm actually preparing to go and scope things out rn. He's done this thing where he tells me I should come get her or she is going to a shelter (or something similar) and then I go to get her and as I'm carrying things out he asks what I'm doing and then "you think you're taking MY DOG!?" Times I would've gotten scrappy really quickly in the past (before him) but I knew any extra problems would just make things worse for the pup so I've held back but been planning to get her when he wasn't home for a while. I work with dogs and had to finish up a few jobs so I would be able. I wrapped the last job up last week and he didn't know anything about my jobs or plan so it's either ironic timing that he's doing this again or results of stalking. Idk which and don't even care. I get physically ill thinking about her sitting alone while he is consumed in himself and that's, of course, the best case scenario.

[@marilyneolson313]

🎉 Happy birthday 🎂 Now & daily work on your healing, awareness, and Freedom from this toxic behavior 💃 Get your pup

[@Windmi11]

What about a situation where the person who left the narc and still held onto the trauma bond. Almost as if it’s making the victim act as if he/she is the narcissist. Not being able to fully breakup and move on as the dumber keeps holding on. The dumber knows this is narc behavior but at the same time it’s a trauma bond and every time they try to cut all ties the dumpy pulls out guilt cards and acts blind sided. But are they really blind sided or are they the real narc. Or is the dumper the narc??

[@op.portadora.d.victoria]

Is this so with a parent/adult child relationship…

[@itsamerrylife9128]

Is the discard more from the grandiose narcissist? I don’t think they all discard. Am I wrong? If they don’t discard are they just not really a narcissist?

[@strongerthanbefore]

Not all narcissists discard. In the DSM 5 there is only one official type of narcissist. If they discard or don't has no connection to if they are a narcissist or not. Abuse is abuse. Focus on that ♥️

[@antheredhen]

I wish he'd discard me....

[@kjbrocky]

No. They don't get that unless they've read about it and practiced it.

[@YERUBILEEtheBand]

28:43 Hey Lee: what were you about to add before you got interrupted? @MentalHealness

[@strongerthanbefore]

Lmaooooooooo

[@neveragain733]

My ex is going to mess with the wrong guy with her mindgames and its gonna get real dangerous for her

[@Atrice-oi4td]

The ex I had pretended to break up with me and I was begging and pleading and he was insistent that we were done.. during that he initiated sex with me and then afterwards pretended like he blacked out and didn’t know we had sex and then left (we were living together) when he came back later I had accepted it and told him of plans to separate he was like “oh so ur just gonna give up” that’s when I knew he was sick

[@mistimannon3171]

❤

[@ruthgrace-sw5uj]

I fell out of love with a guy bc of the bad,mean behavior. I was trying to conclude the relationship but he got angry about that and I got intimidated, now I think I'm a bit trauma bonded I think I would have left before due to his being nasty

[@liseduedue2715]

If a person « knows» that you for sure is an abuser, then there’s no excuse? It’s pathetic evil people Ask yourself if it’s okej to go to hell and disappear in the future with satan. This is really serious stuff Why don’t you turn to God and ask for healing and forgiveness? Before it’s too late

[@_missashleybanks_]

I don’t think they know it’s a trauma bond, they think it’s bc they’re this wonderful person. My ex said he knows he’s the prize bc all his exes want him back 😏

[@toneyfox6328]

They create with u a trauma bond but still aren’t bonded to u, thus why it’s easy for them to cheat etc

[@brigitte2217]

To me it's not funny at all 😢it made me mentally and physically ill . I'm from Germany.

[@mariannenapoles146]

Ugh. Let him speak!! She keeps putting her own story in. 😢I want to hear what he has to say.

[@alicat3387]

We had the Police at our house , he brought his new girlfriend to stay over I went to court got him kicked out the house He calls me 6 months later can I come over I laughed down the phone and hung up Psychopath

[@janpsillos5513]

They are in a fantasy, so no. Trauma bond would not be part of the fantasy.

[@SaraLeee333]

Of course their not trauma bond bc their not getting abused they're the abuser lol

[@jacquelinevd977]

Wonder what he is so proud of? Silly immature mindgames. When you beeak up with them, they NEED to have you OBSESSIVELY. Sorry checked out a long time ago bragging about who he slept with and swinging bs. He even got fired for his sex addiction.

[@theresahuk-vallarino6100]

When I met him 6.5 years ago, he had me get tested in case I had AIDS. It was herpes 2 that I contracted from him. I was a widow committed to my late husband, who passed from suicide. I attracted the Narcissist due to childhood trauma. Recently, I disconnected from mom and thanks to nephew who raged at me for not keeping the peace. Narcissists get what they order: you deliver to keep them happy.

[@DebraHernandez-le7sj]

❤