This LITTLE KNOWN tip will cut your sanding time in HALF!

[@StumpyNubs]

▼EXPAND THIS SECTION FOR IMPORTANT INFO▼ *Tools used in this video:* 3M Cubitron II Sanding Discs: lddy.no/1hyoq 3M Dust Extractor: lddy.no/1hyp2 3M Professional Sander: lddy.no/19fcc *My hand tool collection includes premium tools from Bridge City Tool Works:* bridgecitytools.com/ ★TAYLOR TOOLWORKS IS A SMALL FAMILY BUSINESS WORTH SUPPORTING★ *They are also supporters of this channel who help keep our videos free. Please support them AND us by saving and using this link whenever you buy tools: lddy.no/s80f *Please help support us by using the link above for a quick look around!* (If you use one of these affiliate links, we may receive a small commission) *Some other useful links:* -More videos on our website: stumpynubs.com/ -Subscribe to our e-Magazine: stumpynubs.com/browse-and-subscribe/ -Check out our project plans: stumpynubs.com/product-category/plans/ -Instagram: instagram.com/stumpynubs/ -Twitter: twitter.com/StumpyNubs ★SOME OF MY FAVORITE CHEAP TOOLS★ -123 Blocks: lddy.no/vpij -Mechanical Pencils: amzn.to/2PA7bwK -Lumber pencil: amzn.to/2QtwZjv -Pocket Measuring Tape: amzn.to/2kNTlI9 -Irwin Drill Bit Gauge: amzn.to/2AwTkQg -Nut/Bolt/Screw Gauge: amzn.to/2CuvxSK -Self-Centering Punch: amzn.to/2QvbcrC -Self-Centering Bits: amzn.to/2xs71UW -Angle Cube: lddy.no/10nam -Steel Ruler: lddy.no/10mv7 -Utility knife: amzn.to/3nfhIiv -Center-Finding Ruler: lddy.no/10nak -Bit & Blade Cleaner: amzn.to/2TfvEOI -Digital depth gauge: amzn.to/3mwRf2x -Wood Glue: amzn.to/3mqek6M -Spade Bits: amzn.to/3j8XPtD ★SOME OF MY FAVORITE HAND TOOLS★ -Digital Caliper: amzn.to/384H1Or -Marking Gauge: lddy.no/10muz -Marking knife: lddy.no/10mv0 -Narex Chisels: lddy.no/sqm3 -Stanley Sweetheart Chisels: amzn.to/3y5HDOc -Mini Pull Saw: amzn.to/2UEHBz6 -Gent Saw: lddy.no/ss2x -Coping saw: amzn.to/2W7ZiUS -Shinwa Rulers: lddy.no/zl13 ★SOME OF MY FAVORITE POWER TOOLS★ -Miter Saw: amzn.to/3gqIlQ8 -Jointer: amzn.to/3yc3gfZ -Planer: amzn.to/3mn6BGF -Router: amzn.to/3grD22S -Sander: amzn.to/3DdvD0Y -Cordless drill: amzn.to/3D9ZiIm -Brad nailer: amzn.to/3gsRkjH -Mini Compressor: amzn.to/3mvrmQr -Bladerunner: amzn.to/2Wl0TtJ -Jig Saw: amzn.to/3zetTBY -Scroll Saw: amzn.to/3gq9qDc -Multi-Tool: amzn.to/3muZuMi ★SOME OF MY FAVORITE OTHER TOOLS★ -Drill Bits: amzn.to/3B8Ckzh -Forstner Bits: amzn.to/3kk3wEI -Shop Vacuum: amzn.to/2Wkqnbl -Machine Setup Blocks: amzn.to/3gq7kDh -Counter-Sink Bit: amzn.to/37ZukUo -Featherboard: amzn.to/3DeqHsq -ISOtunes Hearing Protection (Save $10): bit.ly/3BHYdH7 (If you use one of the affiliate links above, we may receive a small commission)

[@zqzj]

Loved the video! Could you do a comparison of weight loss on two pieces of wood with both types of sanding?

[@BrianThorstad]

Ok my friend Stumpy… I hope you don’t mind the artificial familiarity but “we’ve spent quality time together” and I’ve with eyes wide open spent several hundred dollars on your advice…today I bought a multipack of what I hope to be my forever sanding disks (from TatTools who indeed are great). Thanks for the thoughtful advice; I and many others thank you. (Maybe more than a few hundred…)

[@robertdavenport6705]

From my years of floor sanding I can confirm that dust buildup under orbital sanding discs or sheets is a primary cause of scroll marks. Reduced density of grit on the sheet ( i.e. , dust clogging , ) does not allow the sheet to remove its own marks. As a corollary , do not use worn 120 to get 150 results. Throw away the 120 and switch to fresh 150. Sounds like everyone should know both of these things , but I've seen so called carpenters use a worn and clogged disc all morning and simply burnish , not sand , the wood.

[@peterszutu555]

Never use 3M Cubitron net sandpaper without a pad saver. The pad’s Velcro hooks are too long and protrude through the sandpaper, causing the hooks to wear off. Pad savers are $2 each attaches to original pad and has Velcro hooks to grab the paper. The pad saver will last quite a while but certainly a lot cheaper to replace the pad saver than a new pad for your sander. Just something I’ve learned in my journey.

[@DonnieMulligan]

Wow! I bought an assortment pack of this Cubitron sandpaper last year after watching your video. Never got it out of the box, kept using my same old tried and true brands I've used for years. Finally used one of their 240 grit disc for my orbital sander and was blown away. It sands smoother, faster, and with no squiggly tails in sight. Already ordering other needed grits. Thanks again for everything!

[@jasondoust4935]

You're bang on, James. Dust extraction doesn't quite make sanding enjoyable, but certainly more efficient and satisfying.

[@d.k.1394]

Yess

[@stephenmcgeown]

Sanding is the least enjoyable part of woodworking so I'm all for learning as many ways to make it as effective and efficient as possible. Thanks for sharing all of these product and technique tips, James!

[@coppulor6500]

"least enjoyable". that's being generous. sanding blows!!

[@stephenmcgeown]

@@coppulor6500 Haha, yes, I was being unnecessarily generous about sanding!

[@Andre_the_Lion]

Things like this are the main reason I would encourage all users of power tools to try things by hand for a while: the feedback you get working by hand often makes things like this obvious, in turn improving your power tool woodworking quality, speed, and tool life.

[@joeguilfoyle1922]

I have a pack of these discs at home but haven't tried them yet. I had no idea what the holes were for. I'm so glad you made this video because i have to sand my bathroom door, probably tonite, and repaint it. So this video was perfect timing. My daughter works for 3M and once a year, they have a sale where employees can buy their products. She's allowed 1 guest and she brings me. That's how I got the sandpaper. Cant wait to try it tonite now that I know.

[@deanaoxo]

I really started using vacuum on my shop projects about two years ago, it really blew my mind the difference.....

[@kontoname]

A good vacuum should suck and not blow by the way

[@TimeSurfer206]

@@kontoname Whenever I have been sucked, it has always blown my mind. AND my "Nose."

[@Bob-of-Zoid]

@@TimeSurfer206 I tried to suck my nose clean with a shop vac, and it sucked out a portion of my brain with it! Lucky for me it is one of those that is bi directional, and so I put it in reverse, and blew it back in!🤪

[@marcossuarez7360]

I just want to say thank you, for everything. Because of you I had improved several things in my work. Once again: thank you

[@michaelarighi5268]

Working on a large project (~1000 sq ft of sanding). Used the Cubitron Xtract disks with dust collection on my DeWalt sander and found I got excellent results with very few passes. Fully agree with your conclusions.

[@brettjohnson9453]

Lumber crayons are really good for hand planing, besides showing the high / low spots the wax lubricates the plane sole as you work. Nearly all the wood I work with is dense Australian hardwoods and I find that I need to wax the plane sole frequently, so using crayons on the wood has become a common process for me.

[@garymiller5937]

Thanks Stumpy. I appreciate all the advice you share with us. 😊😊😊😊

[@coppulor6500]

The Stumpster rules.

[@modifierle]

I tried the cubitron sandpaper because you mentioned it on a previous video and I can attest there is a major difference in quality over store bought discs. They seem to last much longer too!

[@markisom78]

I bought those same 3M sanding disc's and wondered about those holes. I was always trying to line them up with the holes on the machine but that proved very time consuming and almost impossible. So thanks very much for clarifying the reason behind them small holes.

[@Mason-hs9oz]

Those sanding discs are actually really great! I thought it was a gimmick, but I'm going to buy them from now on after trying a small pack

[@XDIY]

Seems like the best useful tip that I've seen in your channel latetly! I have to try it. Thanks.

[@dtom1145]

Removing the dust keeps the sanding disk in better contact with the wood since it doesn’t have to continuously “regrind” the loose dust particles. Even when hand sanding I will always wipe the surface with a micro cloth between passes. Makes a huge difference.

[@glenlongstreet7]

I am not a rich man, so a vacuum cleaner with an automatic on switch connects to your favorite tool was out of my reach. However, for about $30 I bought a plug with two outlets, one for the tool and one for the vacuum cleaner. I got a small 6 gallon vacuum from the big box store. I have it hooked up to my table saw and my thickneser? (What they call it on the other side of the pond). Huge difference. I will start using it for my sanders. Thanks James

[@olddawgdreaming5715]

Thanks for sharing with us James. Those sanding disc's and the shop-vac system sure helps cut the time for sure. Stay safe and keep up the great information. Fred.

[@locomokko]

I got these after watching your video on the 3M Cubitron and have noticed instantly a difference in sanding time and longevity of the disk. Amazing. I've even placed them over the Duragrit. Will always use these now when I can get them! Thanks for the demo. Scott from Japan

[@StumpyNubs]

Duragrit only comes in coarse grits for shaping and leveling. I wouldn't use those for the same tasks as I use the 3M discs.

[@locomokko]

@@StumpyNubs That's a good point. I do like the Duragrit sanding blocks I have, where manual sanding is concerned. But the Cubitron also comes in as low as 80 grit, for my orbital sander and not needing to switch to the specialized attachment of the pad, I'm liking this 3M for majority of powered sander. But I'll keep this in mind. Thanks. Scott from Japan

[@adamcoe]

Cubitron II is head and shoulders the best stuff out there and when factoring in your time, is actually one of the most cost effective options as well. Absolutely no brainer purchase, even if you just have a regular ass shop vac like myself. Bonus points if you have one of the super nice 3M or Festool dust extractors.

[@covishen]

I'm sold. Maybe not with the 3M setup, way too pricey, but the sanding disks aren't that bad. Up until now I've been getting the "500 disks for $20" from Fleabay. Just watching you take down the wood crayon with one pass is worth me getting one pack to try.

[@bigjgordon]

FWIW - I made the switch after watching another video James did a year or so ago and I will never - EVER - go back to the old discs. It was truly amazing what a difference they made. Got mine from Shmamazon and they had a slightly different raised triangular pattern on full mesh (still true 3M Cubitron though) and they scared me how fast they cut, which means more BF per disc in less than half the time. And I don’t think they cost me that much more than the red stuff from the orange people.

[@moeszyslack4676]

As Tom Lipton says, cheap abrasives are a false economy. I've been using the 3M and Freud (for my 5" sander that I don't use often) mesh discs lately and have found they miserable chore of sanding much more bearable. I have a cyclone set up with my shop vac that has a bag and blue filter (intermediate between the standard paper and HEPA). Works well for me and doesn't kill me on cost.

[@joesmith1574]

@@bigjgordon”the red stuff from the orange people”. Too funny.

[@SamWanamaker1]

I thought the same thing, but then saw they were $2 a disc. A bit pricey for something that can rip so easily.

[@drstefankrank]

@@SamWanamaker1They last a lot longer and IMHO the time saved is worth it. I don't use my older stock of cheap ones not any longer.

[@gillie-monger3394]

Started using Cubitron discs on recommendation not long after they came out. With extraction they work 100% better than standard discs and do indeed both improve the quality of the finish as well as speeding up the dreaded sanding work. I'd never go back.

[@thenext9537]

I have a bosch sander 5" using 775w , using a medium / light suction on dust. Yes, game changer. My sanding time is so much faster, been on this path for 7 months.

[@mikedurkee7296]

It's the only sandpaper I use. I have a DeWalt ROS and a Rigid vacuum that has a DustStopper attached. I am a hobbyist woodworker and I agree 100% with James. I was noticing on my last project (crib board) the difference between sanding with and without the vac attached... I thought it was my imagination... did a lame a$$ test for myself and thought "hmmm, might be smart to keep the vac attached all the time" after seeing James do this test I am sold. Also, to anyone that has never used Taytools I'm a firm believer and I am not and will not be a "youtube influencer" I would much rather be making sawdust in my woodshop (aka garage).

[@DonTruman]

I bought the Bosch random orbital and just use the built-in collector. I'm a low-budget weekend warrior, but this sander rated very high in tests of dust collection. Have been very impressed with exactly that (as long as I remember to empty it before it clogs up). And have also been very impressed with how long the sandpaper lasts. Don't have enough experience to have an opinion on sanding speed.

[@thereddufus]

The distinction between a dust extractor and a shop vac is basically the magnitude of the vacuum they can pull. This pressure differential is ~additive. With this in mind, I get really good results connecting my shopwide dust collector to the outlet of my shop vac. The total suction of the combined system is noticeably better than the shop vac alone. This is still not the same as something like the 3M, I have that thing at work and it is amazing, but every bit of added suction helps.

[@Clint3029]

Thanks for all of information about sanding. Forty plus yeas of woodworking and I paid little priority of sanding machines or papers. Before a year ago last June I never spent more than $100 for a sander not more than 40 cents per disk. Sanding is now something I don't get annoyed about.

[@CalmBeforeTheStorm76]

First of all... You have no idea how much more efficient you're making countless woodworkers by demonstrating this on your channel. I had heard rumors about the 3M paper, and had never bothered trying it... But, last week, while ordering a bunch of "state of the art" blue aluminum oxide discs off Amazon to begin major sanding of the oak legs of a major work/specialty bench , I happened to pick up a trial pack of the cubitron II Xtract discs. I wasn't sure what to expect. But, the results were so drastically better than the aluminum oxide "trapezoid" pattern amazon discs, I gave up using them altogether except for incredibly fine grits of 400 and above where the amount of sanding required is much less than the lower grits. Thank you so much for the insight... So many of us are traditionalists who are reluctant to buy into anything new... and sometimes, there's something to be said for that. But, with this, there is no comparison. It saves you so much time that you'll regret every time you ever sanded previously to this, knowing that there's a better way. I may have pride... But, in this case, my pride plays absolutely no roll. My time is far too valuable to waste it with a method that takes far more time, for no good reason. One more thing. If I'm working with wood, does it matter if I get the mesh discs or should I stick with the cubitron you showed in the video? I need to buy more, and I want to try the standard ones.. Unless they're inferior to the mesh/Xtract/Cubitron 2 discs. Thanks again so much!

[@StumpyNubs]

I think the mesh discs work faster and give the best dust collection results, but the will wear out faster if you are aggressive with them, especially around the edges.

[@lint2023]

Actually, the dust migration path is interesting. Share more of your discussion with 3M, sometime, if there is more.

[@StumpyNubs]

I think I will make a detailed video about what makes Cubitron II different. But I can't do too many sanding videos too close together or people just complain.

[@kholdanstaalstorm6881]

​@@StumpyNubs Some do get rubbed the wrong way by the smallest of grit, there's no way to smooth out everyone's experiences... Sorry, I couldn't stop myself when that line popped into my mind, I just had to...

[@mountainousterrain1704]

@@kholdanstaalstorm6881 Indeed, many abrasive personalities on KZbin...

[@jackthomson73]

@@mountainousterrain1704and some need to be rubbed out 😂

[@flemmingaaberg4457]

Nah stuff em - bring it on! @@StumpyNubs

[@jmi967]

Though I doubt it would make a difference in this case, using the disc with holes for both tests is still advisable for tests like this as we can’t always tell offhand if a variable is affecting the result

[@andrewj5998]

I've found that attaching a shop vac to my sander gives vastly better results than relying on the sander's onboard dust collection bag. I never really thought too much of it beyond that. Another informative Stumpy Nubs video - you can't beat quantifiable results.

[@ericschumacher5452]

That’s good to know. I was going to ask that, since the video didn’t compare the sander’s onboard bag versus a dust collector/shop vac.

[@Critter145]

Maybe the waste extraction keeps the feed rate higher than otherwise? If you break down sanding into a discrete number of interactions between the medium and the workpiece, I’d imagine that waste removal keeps the average higher than it would be if the sand paper is gunked up, but I think you basically said that already.

[@bluewren65]

I have a Bosch shop vac and it seems to do an excellent job at dust extraction when coupled with my Bosch orbital sander. I really need to get some of the Cubitron sanding discs.

[@WHITTONZ]

Dear Stumpy Nubs and fellow watchers. Should you use perforated discs, then you must have suction on, otherwise the migrating dust shall clog up the disc fitting surface and it will come off well before it is worn out. Trying to persuade it to stick again is often a waste of time. Thank you for another instructive show. Best wishes from West Cornwall, U.K.

[@ChuckCooper]

That sand paper is awesome game changer.

[@TrondOleJensen]

I tried this and I got the same result, and so much better work environment. I have a dust deputy, and Diablo’s SandNET disks on my Milwaukee M18 orbital sander.

[@greggerstner5599]

I was lucky enough to be introduced to random orbit sanders by a magazine article decades ago and got my porter cable and an adapter hose for the shop vac. Lots of noise but, as the (fw?) article pointed out, using this way made the discs last a lot longer. Don't remember if it mentioned quicker as well. Guess I always assumed so and almost never sand without a vac attached. Hate sanding of all types. Trying to cut down on it as much as possible. But the ro and vac are are about as efficient as portable power tools get. Another great vid. Thanks.

[@rojer9542]

I was introduced to the Porter Cable random orbital sander with dust collection around 1988, been using them ever since. Getting a “dust extractor” was a nice addition, especially with the hepa filter, but a regular shop vac worked fine for years. I”ll have to try the Cubitron discs now that I know a little bit more about them.

[@greggerstner5599]

I've found that the shop vac works better than a dust collection system. That article, or maybe another one mentioned that you can also remove a rubber belt on the pc (looked like a rubber band) that's there for slowing the machine when you turn it off (instead of some sort of motor brake. Not sure if this is possible on a small tool). Removing this lets the sander cut with a lot more power. You have to be careful, maybe a scrap to set the sander on while it slows down. And don't start the sander unless it's flat on the surface, otherwise it will gouge the finish. Since then, I've had no use for a belt sander, and I also do as much planing and card scraping before any sanding. You probably already know most or all of this. If so, apologies for this novel, but just on case . . .

[@MikeyJ_366]

Great video and channel Stumpy! I’ve been watching for years but not a big comment guy. Just want you to know you do great work!

[@Artexmadera]

I switched to cubitron mesh disks about a year ago, will never go back to any other one, would be nice if you make a video on cubitron sanding disks....thanks for the videos!

[@patjackson1657]

Great video! About the same time I found fittings so that my sanders would connect to the dust extractor, I bought a sample pack of Mirca discs. Maybe the astonishing speed of sanding was not just the Mirca discs. Thanks!

[@waynemiller6070]

Yes Sir, I've noticed the same thing even with my shitty paper. Lol I used to try to do my sanding outside, but I now have a work station toward the back of my garage now where I have a second vacuum. Stays surprisingly clean while effectively sanding.

[@johnduffy6546]

Excellent information. Since I hate sanding, I'm definitely going to buy some of these.

[@rogerprice4504]

In hindsight, I guess it’s obvious that clearing the sweepings off the floor as you sweep makes the job quicker. But this is the first time I’ve seen this on a video, thanks. Worth attaching the hose for!!

[@bigburlymikesmswoodworking]

I love the 3M sandpaper and have moved to it exclusively. It does a far better job than my old sandpaper, and it lasts a lot longer as well.

[@jimbo2629]

Don’t forget to use the sandpaper dresser frequently. This prolongs the life of the paper and also shortens sanding time by unclogging. This is rarely mentioned.

[@Wally-x8c]

What is a sandpaper dresser?

[@MsVivian99]

What is a dresser?

[@ksfwg2717]

I've been using Cubitron sanding discs since I first saw them on the market. They not only do a better job, they last much longer than other sanding discs.

[@catat9442]

Great info, and I totally agree from experience as well. I would only say, for the past year now I have been using Mirka abernets and just today even with out dust collection using their 80 grit on rough sawn oak my sanding was less than half the time using paper and the Abernets last a very long time and no I am not a Mirka shareholder.

[@apsynto]

One very quickly becomes a Mirka shareholder. You start off with just few discs and end up with a box of 60, 80, 120, 180, 240 and 320 grits just because 😂 stuff is damned pricey but really good

[@TheEmptyHoliness]

I had no idea it helped at all, game changer!!

[@ryanc8188]

I used to just use regular flat disks and decided to try the mirka iridium's, well the supplier only had ones with holes so eh what the heck lets get my sander upgraded to full vacuum, luckily I have a festool cleantec to hook it up to. Just the amount of dust that isn't coating all my horizontal surfaces was a night and day difference and the sandpaper lasts longer ans doesn't get hot. If you're on the fence about upgrading to a vac set up and like keeping your shop and lungs clean its worth the price.

[@amycyclenut]

I'm a beginner woodworker, in fact I wouldn't even call myself that, I just build stuff for myself. And the differences in sanding time was so noticeable even to me. The only thing I will use now, even if they are more expensive.

[@Burnsalmighty]

I use two sanders at once 😂 Thanks for another great video!

[@jos6415]

I use cubitron disks ( after you recommended them in a previous video ) Mine have a mesh rather than holes and they work very well.

[@StumpyNubs]

I like the mesh, but many find the spiral ones more durable.

[@johnford7847]

Interesting observation. I'm not convinced that the smoothness of the surface is better when a vacuum is used - but I can't see how to measure that without some expensive or at least time-consuming steps. But the reduction in dust is enough to make me use a vacuum when sanding. Thanks, sir.

[@tonysheerness2427]

The quicker chips and dust are removed the less strain on the cutting device.Your demonstration shows it perfectly.Reciprocal saws have the problem because they only move about an inch and not enough movement to clear chips and can bog down. Sanding discs without dust extraction are just floating on dust and not doing anything.Your demonstrations show the obvious that most people miss in a very simple way.

[@mr.t9976]

Those cubitron sanding disks ARE the best! I find I wear out the velcro out first before the actual sanding material

[@MCsCreations]

Pretty interesting indeed! Thanks for testing it, James! 😊 Stay safe there with your family! 🖖😊

[@priayief]

That's an informative video. Something that most of us wouldn't try ourselves. Thank you.

[@petenelson8136]

Cool comparison. Can't wait to get my shop up and running ... 4 weeks to go 🙂till my new house is finished an my woodworking shop is done. Then the real work begins on setting my shop up and getting everything tuned up, not to mention all the projects I've got to do to finish the house.

[@srmofoable]

I've been using the cubitron grinding wheels for a decade after a free trial. I'll have to give the sanding discs a try

[@mrcryptozoic817]

Thanks! That's very helpful information. I've seen disks with that hole pattern but didn't understand them so I avoided them.

[@fifi23o5]

Besides saving time, dust extraction saves sanding paper. Airflow cools it down and prevents local overheating, which causes the grain to become loose. Money spent on dust extraction is money well spent, no matter how expensive it might be.

[@RabidMortal1]

I wish you had used the same perforated disc for BOTH tests. It's possible that simply giving the dust a place to go (even without a vacuum) is enough to significantly improve the sanding.

[@StumpyNubs]

Did you see how much dust accumulated beneath the disc, from that small area? You aren't going to hide all that in the holes. But you are free to run your own tests.

[@1Darkvictory]

Good visual demonstration. The multiple small hole sanding discs look to be more efficient. I wonder if the vacuum assist sander will have a better life span with the small hole sanding discs. Thank you, Be Well!

[@Najim1958]

Thanks for the informative presentation! I was getting a lot of static electric shocks when I hooked up my Rigid shop vac to my Rigid orbital sander. What can I do to avoid that?

[@lolz4887]

Long time watcher first time poster, thanks for your work! Have you ever tried (washable) mesh sanding disks, and if so, what do you think of them?

[@Shannon-v3r]

I recently made the plunge into the cubitron mesh discs and oh my lord what a difference. I’m not sure if I’m correct but I feel like the 150 cubitron is cutting more than cheap no name 80grit. I actually like sanding, always have, and I don’t get too too excited these days about much but I couldn’t stop talking about the difference

[@Aaron-nj4ou]

I have been using Cubitron for awhile. Excellent sandpaper. I prefer it over the Xtract personally. Thanks for another great video. I would love to get a dust extractor (I know comments are full of complaints about cost) but they are so ridiculously expensive so I have to stick with the shop vac for now.

[@StumpyNubs]

As long as you suck up the dust, you will get the same results. You can do that with a shop vac, or even a sander that has good internal collection (I have found few that actually do).

[@bluewren65]

Why do you prefer them to the xtract? I have used neither in the past, but want to move to something better. In Tasmania, if you want to buy 3M it's going to be online and in semi industrial quantities.

[@StumpyNubs]

@@bluewren65 3M seems to use the Xtract name on their mesh discs, but it is still Cubitron II abrasive. The difference is the material the abrasive is on. Mesh is fantastic for dust collection but it can shred if you sand really aggressively or sand up against perpendicular surfaces. The spiral discs are more durable, in that respect. I use both, but I think the average user may prefer the tougher disc.

[@bluewren65]

@@StumpyNubs Thanks, that's so helpful. Great videos, all your content is stellar.

[@xoxo2008oxox]

Irony: James timing of sanding, dust collection and my agro throw of a crappy shopvac down the stairs! And that I just ordered a festool hepa setup and sander. Thanks James for the demo and wisdom!

[@rwg727]

I learned something! Thank you Mr Nubs!

[@asaturn]

the tiny holes thing is crazy. it makes sense - it creates a venturi effect!

[@uri1090]

@StumpyNubs, when you mentioned “vacuum”, it occurred to me that something else is taking place while suction removes dust from between the sander and the wood. Suction is generated by the differential pressure between the ambient air and the air inside the sander. The same force also acts on the sander itself pushing it downwards, “sucking” it toward the work surface. This force, in turn, strengthens the friction force thereby improving the sanding. (Without vacuum, this additional force is not present; only the force your arm applies and the sander’s weight generate the sanding friction ) Don’t you think?

[@sage5296]

I don’t think so, since most of that suction can probably leak out between the velcro layer or somewhere else, plus the overall difference is probably negligible compared to the weight of the orbital just with gravity

[@Spuddler]

This is a great demonstration of why we should all suck at sanding. As someone who's dabbled in science, I would have liked that you used the same sandpaper for both tests. I really don't think it would have made a difference in this case, but an extra variable was added to the test, and we want to eliminate variables like we want to eliminate our dust. Thanks for your content!

[@StumpyNubs]

The sandpaper is the same in it's functionality for removing wood. Same type of abrasive, same coarseness, same backing, same everything except the tiny holes, which would have no affect on it's ability to remove material. However, by using hole-less paper I actually eliminated a variable that would have skewed the results- the internal fan of my sander, which is different with every model, and which can suck up wood dust on it's own at different degrees, again, depending on the sander the viewer has. I did not want this test to be about any particular sander, but about the how using dust collection from any effective source can speed up the sanding process.

[@Spuddler]

Thanks for your replay, and again, thank you for the content! I actually don't have an orbital sander yet, so videos like these are really helpful for not only choosing a sander, but also choosing sandpaper, and ways to incorporate dust extraction into the workshop (that I hope to create in the garage one day). We may still disagree on which variables were eliminated in this specific test, but that doesn't matter because, as you've demonstrated, using dust extraction is clearly the way to go. Also, your boogie comment was a home run!

[@skampp]

I haven't used those, but I have used the 3M Xtract Cubitron II's. Amazing difference even with just the little collection bag, no vacuum. I cringed when I had to pay for them, but wow do they do a better job and last longer.

[@BigBrotherIsTooBig]

You can quantify it by weighing the pieces before and after, keeping the other variables like pressure, sander speed, grit, and sanding time the same.

[@guilhermecorrea9483]

Now that seems to be a valid test. My sander has a small bag that collects dust without a vacuum. Aren't all orbitals the same? Of course one "removes" more wax than the other, the one without holes is just spreading wax around. I expected more from the guy, he is usually much smarter than that. I wonder if a vacuum is more efficient for small jobs than just the bag. It has the clumsiness effect to take into account...

[@mrimmortal1579]

Those “dust collection” bags are junk. Plus the clumsiness of hooking your orbital sander to a dust extraction system now (or even just a shop-vac) will be far less than the clumsiness of hauling around an oxygen tank when you’re 75.

[@guilhermecorrea9483]

@@mrimmortal1579 Thank you for such an objective verification. I wonder why people waste their time testing stuff.

[@BigBrotherIsTooBig]

@@mrimmortal1579 Oxygen tanks also have wheels. Six to one, half a dozen to the other.

[@dian3145]

@@guilhermecorrea9483 I’ve went both ways, when I had a small job where finding the small hose and adapter to attach to my big shop vac seemed like a pita. The difference between the bag and the shop vac is enormous, in terms of dust on the board and in the air. Your lungs deserve better 😊

[@DB_Customs]

Great video! Thanks for sharing this information!!!

[@joesmith1574]

This is good to know, thanks for the information. I’m going to use vacuum from now on.

[@davewilson4957]

That cubitron paper is a game changer, worth every penny

[@marvistawoodworks7624]

I have a DeWalt ROS which has some form of air-suction built into it. It comes with a small dust collection "bag." I believe this is common with ROS's. For me, a more interesting test would be to compare results of the dust collection bag vs attaching a vacuum using disks with holes for both examples.

[@nightcatarts]

Those bags are a poor substitute because the sander can never apply enough suction on its own. Still worth using if there's no extraction since they'll keep a huge pile of dust from getting in the way though, but more for just tidiness.

[@sail4life]

Residual cooling flow from a 600W sander used for dust extraction can never equal 1000W of shop vac.

[@StumpyNubs]

Every sander is different. Comparing how mine works doesn't help you with yours. And it would not have changed the conclusion, which is that dust collection, wherever it comes from, speeds up sanding.

[@joshuamurphy5073]

I have a dewalt. Use mesh paper and always use dust extractor. Bought mesh in bulk last year, so it'll be a while before I try 3m. You don't really need a scientific test here. The results are obvious the first time you hook it up. At least mine is.

[@leerosson216]

The bag is an improvement over nothing, but worlds apart from even the cheapest vac setup. Sheesh

[@hishamhamdan2105]

I'm a fan from Syria.. A guy made an ultimate sanding pad comparison. Long test video.. Cupitron kills the competition

[@stadleroux]

First time I saw these disks was in this video, so I wasn't very hopeful that they'd even be available here in South Africa, but that's OK, I thought, we do have the Mirka Abranet, which I have been using with great success. But then I googled 3M Cubitron and, lo and behold, they are indeed available, but maybe just not at the places I'm used to look at! And the ones with the zigzag pattern are significantly cheaper than the Abranets too, at just below U$0.77 each, although the minimum number you can order at that particular shop at a time is 50, so it could become pretty costly if you start looking at three or more grits... 😮 Will definitely keep looking for them though!

[@Malkki79]

Mirka Abranet is superiour, especially with their Deros sanders.

[@andyc972]

Interesting, thanks for sharing this !

[@DaveIngle1]

Love the videos... keep them coming. Would a more fair test have been the disc with holes, no dust extraction vs the disc with holes, with dust extraction? Just wondering if the holes also had something to do with the better removal. Not sure how but, it was another variable.

[@sinsofvorador]

I really like the Milwaukee tools. But I had started off with the bosch platform. I'm really happy with the bosch 12v line and don't really see the need to switch at this time, but. If I they start dying off on me, I'll switch then.

[@hamonthecob]

I'm only 1 minute in, but if I had to guess, I'd say the dust collection actually has a huge cooling effect, which makes things better overall.

[@elberthardy961]

So cool to learn this! Thank you!

[@pamarcoux7134]

In my personal quest to woodworking, sir, you are a reference, and I really appreciate your videos ! Now, if you could make one, where are you find a solution to making sending one that would be awesome 😂

[@billybike57]

Thanks for sharing some great advice!

[@markduggan3451]

Great information as always.

[@rickmunn7356]

Very interesting once again. Have you done a comparison between a palm sander with a dust bag and holes in the paper? I find my Dewalt palm sander with the bag leaves very little dust behind. I can attach dust collection to the sander but to be honest it’s much more comfortable and convenient to not connect the hose. Any thoughts. I have not tried the Quibitron paper yet but I will. Thanks.

[@orionred2489]

I would LOVE to have been there when someone said... ya know, we might be able to use smaller holes to get better suction. That nerd moment of grabbing onto an idea and running with it is glorious.

[@joelico3983]

Great video. I have a Makita orbital and I’m forever replacing the pads as the Velcro no longer sticks. Any tips as to how I can get the sandpaper to last longer? Cheers

[@thomaskirkpatrick4031]

That's was impressive, I'm gonna have to dig out the dust extractor hose that came with my sander.

[@DD-uf2uo]

Excellent video. Thanks 👍.

[@amazinga.f.artwork9047]

Hey could you go over end grain & finishes. I’ve tried going up some grits and leaving the top 1 grit lower. Some times my endgrain looks way way darker on walnut. I notice when I sand the resin , it seems to clog my vacuum more. I pull the vacuum apart and clean my filter bag thing , then get back to sanding. I always kinda test it and make sure it holds itself down to the work. As long as it does that , I know I have enough vacuum. Great video

[@B30pt87]

Outstanding! Thank you very much.

[@JohnDlugosz]

I think the Cubitron sanding disks might be particularly prone to this effect; they are designed for and meant to be used with dust extraction. When buying sandpaper, there is "open" vs "closed"; there's also "stearated". Now there are more advanced anti-clog coatings.

[@joshuamurphy5073]

My Dewalt sander actually runs at higher rpm with the extraction on. Doubt that accounts for more than 10 percent performance though. Extraction on an ROS is night and day, performance wise. I'm thinking about mounting my sanding kit to the rolling extractor, since I never use the sander without, and the extractor is about 80 percent for sanding. The only thing I miss is having that little ROS bag of matching sawdust to make putty.

[@jasonricchio5139]

I am still in the “Shop Vac” phase of dust collection. Hoping to upgrade to a 2-stage, ductless system for my small shop over the winter.