Stylization in gaming means MORE than you think...

[@L_inkle]

Lmk your thoughts on the whole thing too, because there's like HUNDREDS of sides to this discussion👁

[@lobsterare]

Tbh, the way Sony advertised jet set radio as if it is a random 3d game got me sad. Bring back choppy visuals fr

[@L_inkle]

Been seeing that kinda thing with a lot of stuff lately, definitely disheartening

[@pacioli]

I think generally more stylized games work better because they tend to have a clearer vision. when games go realistic, i feel like they tend to be less cohesive. not all not all not all, but thats my general feeling about it.

[@L_inkle]

Definitely see what you mean, they kinda lose their identity when they go into the vein of realism

[@UltravioletNomad]

I think comparing the swinging in Spider-Man 2 and Insomniac Spider-Man is interesting from a game design perspective. Most people know that despite being inspired by the same source material its an apples to oranges scenario (and they leave it at that and don't think about it much about the why of the situation cause they're just having fun), but the people who argue about this stuff REALLY want to convince you one is better than the other... but if you're paying attention to the argument, you realize they're still not arguing about a quality assessment (and I promise this circles back to the 'stylization means more than just artstyle' topic) You see the best argument I've seen about why Insomniac swinging is bad, not just explaining a difference and saying you don't like it but like actually attempting to explain how it hurts the experience, was the assertion that "there is no failure state". And they are correct, that is the most succinct way to explain the fundamental difference between SM2 and ISM is that SM2 LETS you be bad at swinging, and ISM DOESN'T... but like... is there a REASON why swinging has to have a skill floor. Like I play platformers and racing games, I love when a games core focus is complex mobility, cause it makes you feel good to do it. But why does Spider-Man's core mobility option NEED to let me fail. If you were playing Red Dead or Witcher or Elden Ring... you wouldn't want your horse to be HARD to ride, I mean one of the biggest complaints about horses in games are they way they stick to shit, you wouldn't you want to get stuck on a corner in a Spider-Man game... or would you? But instead of framing this as a right or a wrong, we can instead ask what the hell kind of game even IS a Spider-Man game. If you expected a skill floor for swinging then you probably expected Spider-Man to play more like an action platformer, and if you expect swinging to JUST be a form of mobility, akin to a mount or a dodgeroll, then you probably expected a narrative action game. Are either of these approaches WRONG for Spider-Man? Well the answer is that while yes, the source material can FAIL mesh with a certain gameplay style in the same way it might not mesh with a visual style, its not set in stone, theres wiggle room. In actuality, both aesthetic and mechanic choices also reflect on the audience, WHO do you expect to be playing. The reality is AAA devs LOVE low skill floors, heavy scripting, and gameplay systems built around simple fundamentals. None of those assertions are meant to be inherently derogatory, there are fantastic games like Ghost of Tsushima that embody all three of those philosophies to their fullest. But there's a reason EVERY team leans on that these days. Cause every AAA dev studio (minus Nintendo cause they're always the exception) wants to make sure that EVERYTHING they make for the game is something the player is going to see. And its hard to blame them, these games are fucking expensive (they probably don't need to be that expensive but that's beside the point). That ability to take an active web line between you and an enemy and wrap it around things is AMAZING, but also hard as fuck to code, and a strategy that most players will fail to engage with. (Granted these are expensive games by talented programmers, they did it back then they can do it now) Because as Kannon pointed out, its weirdly MORE realistic than some scripted finishers in ISM, so its clearly NOT driven by a desire to stay grounded in how Peter's abilities are depicted, its instead a desire to streamline the gameplay experience and cut down on complexity. They want EVERYONE to play the game, and as we've seen time and time again, experienced players are a smaller demo thats WILLING to play something at a lower play grade if its still fun, but casual players don't want to spend money on a game they not going to experience a large chunk of. Insomniac is an amazing case because you can actively see where this philosophy paid off MASSIVELY with 1, raised complexity in Miles to a little bit of ire, and then pulled back SUPER FAR with 2. Its telling that there are so few challenge missions in 2... they're supposed to be optional, we can complain about balance or if the games systems make for a adequate skill ceiling. And they take development time... but a lot of casuals either complained about their general difficulty or just didn't interact because they didn't care to engage with content that didn't have a story attached. (and time and time again that we can point out that when you get some casuals to eat their proficiency greens and they find a groove they SEE why it makes an experience more engaging, but not always, not everyone want to let Farewell tear them up with challenge before it tears them up with story despite that being THE WHOLE POINT AND EVERYONE SHOULD GO BACK AND FINISH CELESTE, IT HURT SO GOOD) Meanwhile, while Kannon used Arkham as an example of GROUNDED gameplay, the reality is that they 100% went down the MGS route... VR missions and hallucinations. Narratively they are an excuse to do wacky things while remaining within the realm of realism, and mechanically they are an excuse to push the games core mechanics and create scenarios that wouldn't fit in the narrative. Actually Kojima is THE BEST reference for why high narrative, and high detail, does not mean removing all the silly and weird in your presentation or the creativity in your gameplay. Take Death Stranding. I just talked about how most people don't want open world exploration to be permanently paired with challenging gameplay, to make the horse a source of resistance rather than a means to an end. But Death Stranding is entirely about making exploring and getting from point A to point B more complicated. And it did it in the name of realism, INCREDIBLY GRANUAL, PAINSTAKING TEDIOUS courier work... and yet its so creative and well... silly, its funny and silly in this post apocalyptic world with eldritch monsters to see the protagonist fumble around with a stack of packages. Its not crazy and amazing and wacky to have the MC drink so much energy drink he has to take a leak, its frightfully mundane, but the fact that they did it in itself is silly. Or fuck it, forget Kojima, play one fucking Yakuza game to see how the mundane can be twisted into crazy impactful moments.

[@L_inkle]

This comment needs to be framed on a wall

[@lordofyggdrasil9633]

music recommendations are very cool I hope you keep doing them edit: counter-recommendation White Ward (specifically Stillborn Knowledge and Futility Report) and Show Me a Dinosaur (Plantgazer album), both are like asunojokei

[@L_inkle]

Appreciate the recommendation 🤝🤝🤝

[@lordgrim9560]

AYYY YOOOOOOOO 17:40 SHIT HIT THE GROUND SO HARD;CALL IT POUND CAKE 🥵🗣🗣🗣🗣🗣🗣

[@L_inkle]

😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭

[@CaptainFlippy64]

bro i hear that astral chain police station music

[@sandwormleto3358]

babe wake up, new kannon just dropped

[@sandyaxe5138]

i really appreciate you using "from the roof top～somewhere in the silence" in the video. I love that song so much.

[@1nfinit3THPS]

i still think the tasm 2 games traversal was lowkey ahead of its time

[@L_inkle]

Wish they got ONE more chance to do something really crazy with it

[@griffinking4755]

ive binged all of your videos in like 2 days love the videos so glad i found this channel

[@L_inkle]

Appreciate u gang🤝🖤

[@ty_teynium]

This is really spot on fr. Really good job!

[@griffinking4755]

that mahogakko album is great it reminds me of the early sweet trip stuff its that blend of like 9 different electronic subgenres with those super light vocals. if you liked that album and havent heard velocity design comfort by sweet trip i cant recommend it enough

[@Kuup20]

KANNON UPLOAD LESS GOOOOOOOOO

[@L_inkle]

🤞

[@PhoenixDowned]

Catch me if you can is peak music choice. Love these videos!

[@ACameronUK]

The obsession with photorealism in modern games has gone way too far 🤷‍♂️ games take so long to make now and they all end up looking like carbon copies of one another. Having an actual stylised art style is almost always better than trying to copy reality, and it usually means a game will age much better as well.

[@L_inkle]

Fax

[@Larolex3]

W Kannon upload let’s go

[@enjoyanxiety]

This video deserves waaaaay more views wtf

[@L_inkle]

More than 20 views is all I need🫡

[@enjoyanxiety]

@@L_inkle w humility

[@arcadius71]

i feel like most new AAA games are too slow nowadays, they kinda feel like the same slop with the same graphics

[@L_inkle]

I feel u on dat

[@smokedope2024]

comin in clutch w the upload love your videos

[@L_inkle]

APPRECIATE U GANG🤝

[@thecabbagemerchant8469]

Kannon simpky cant miss

[@taiketsu]

ahh yes kannon upload

[@L_inkle]

🛒🛒

[@Pfeifenkraut]

Lets go

[@Drydoctor-qo5wt]

Honestly, in Twilight Princess, the copious amounts of bloom and the overall darker art style never felt like they were going for a more realistic look, but a differently stylized art style. All of the characters are basically, well, caricatures, and everything takes on a darker and more angular look. I feel like calling it “realistic” does the game a disservice. Twilight Princess tangent out of the way, realistic graphics never really hold up in the conventional sense, but they are sometimes inseparable to a games atmosphere and overall experience when done well. Compare a game like Gears of War on the Xbox 360 to a game like Slap Happy Rhythm Fever on the PS1. Gears went for ultra-realistic graphics (for the time) and SHRF went for a cel-shaded style. SHRF looks better conventionally, but neither is necessarily better due to Gears having such a different atmosphere and the art style reflects that. It comes down to what the devs want out of the game.

[@TheDandy99]

What are the best open world cel shaded games?

[@slavi9968]

Yo bro, can you tell me what pc you got, cuz my one is ASS and I need some recs.

[@griptriix]

WWWW