Suikoden Lore - The 27 True Runes

[@CulganValya]

Reuploaded the video because I found a lot of spelling mistakes in the captions in the video. That'll teach me to write captions at 4am. If there's any other spelling mistakes, I'm too tired, we'll just have to deal with them. Wishlist and pre-order the Suikoden HD Remaster - PC version 25% off at Fanatical: www.fanatical.com/en/game/suikoden-iandii-hd-remaster-gate-rune-and-dunan-unification-wars?ref=culgan Amazon US Physical Switch Copy: amzn.to/474Pr5P Physical PS5 Copy: amzn.to/3Mtnv1W Physical Xbox Copy: amzn.to/3TvNeuX Amazon UK Physical Switch Copy: amzn.to/4drycgy Physical PS5 Copy: amzn.to/480NZSN Physical Xbox Copy: amzn.to/47LCMFo Steam: store.steampowered.com/app/1932640/Suikoden_III_HD_Remaster_Gate_Rune_and_Dunan_Unification_Wars/ Nintendo Switch: www.nintendo.com/us/store/products/suikoden-i-and-ii-hd-remaster-gate-rune-and-dunan-unification-wars-switch/ Playstation: store.playstation.com/product/JP0101-PPSA18305_00-SUIKODENREMASTER Xbox: www.xbox.com/games/store/Suikoden-I-II-HD-Remaster-Pre-order/9P9FM62WZXR2 twitter.com/CulganValya www.twitch.tv/culganvalya #suikoden #幻想水滸伝 #konami #jrpg

[@StewNWT]

I really really want to know what the last unknown 9 True runes are

[@kingoverseas9052]

I would've taken the typos as homage to Suikoden's original translation. 😂

[@Vexander01]

An excellent video, as always. Would love to see a speculation video on the final nine True Runes sometime. That having been said, isn't, 'Woven Web of a Century,' all contained inside of a True Rune? Never had a chance to play that one, but I recall reading that somewhere. Assuming it's canon to the main timeline/universe, that would mean we'd know nineteen True Runes. As a note, I was always under the impression that the, 'Sword of ' runes were the children of the Black Sword Rune. Sword of Rage, Sword of Cyclone, Sword of Thunder, etc... Granted in Suikoden V they were the, Flowing Sword, or Rage Sword runes. I imagine that's just a change due to translation moreso than anything else. Coincidentally, runes such as the Beast Rune could theoretically have more child runes than we consider. The Falcon Rune, the Fire Lizard Rune, the Firefly Rune, the Great Hawk Rune, the Viper Rune, the Unicorn Rune, the Raven Rune, etc... if the bestial-named runes would have this connection, it makes one wonder about the Sovereign Rune's children. For example, the Champion Rune absolutely strikes me as being a potential child of the Sovereign Rune, but then you have others such as the Warrior Rune, the Wizard Rune, the Barrier Rune, etc... All of which feel like they're thematically and aesthetically potentially connected to the Sovereign Rune, given what limited knowledge we possess of it's abilities and nature. Speaking for myself, if there was a True Rune I'd want to bear, I imagine it'd be the Gate Rune. The ability to travel via rune magic, or summon either monsters or perhaps even allies, would be quite interesting. I was always hoping we'd get a game in the series eventually that'd involve a new bearer for the other half of the Gate Rune. Rather than relying on Viki for teleporting, or stopping by your HQ to swap in or out party members, you could just do so yourself. Viki would still have to be in the game, though. That having been said, even assuming the rune is used on Earth here, I wouldn't mind saying goodbye to all car related expenses. Insurance? Gas? Repairs? Good riddance. Never have to deal with another everlasting red light, or terrible drivers again. Could show up to work exactly on time. Bonus points if it allows travel to other worlds/dimensions/universes. (Edit): To build off speculating on potential True Runes, I would be interested in seeing the inverse of a Cursed True Rune. That's to say, one that is moreso considered to be, 'Blessed,' if you will. For example, let's say there's a True Kindness Rune, which governs the forces of empathy and healing. It's power grows as it's bearer is increasingly held as beloved by others. One obtains it and possesses very little power, and only through building a reputation do they finally gain even weak healing abilities that common runes such as the Water and Wind Runes outclass by magnitudes. Its as one approaches the fame of a Hero that the Rune begins to gain power worthy of a True Rune. While its known to possess mostly healing abilities, it's offensive powers could be more reflective of empathy: force your foes to feel the harm they themselves inflict on others. The nature of the rune is caring and supportive. It exudes a soothing aura on all around it, whether they be other runes, people, or common beasts. Ultimately, the great flaw of the rune would be it's, 'Martyrdom,' effect. That is to say, actions taken against its bearer incite a deep anger in those whom admire them. Imagine your MC is a healer, takes damage, and the rest of your party gets the Fury/Berserk effect. In such a game, all bad endings involve the death of the main character resulting in a blood bath that would leave whatever land/nation the game takes place in a ravaged, desolate, and lawless hellhole. Although not a cursed True Rune, the bearer eventually realizes the danger their existence causes, and goes into seclusion. Poker Night with Tir/Lazlo!

[@kingoverseas9052]

Fantastic and very informative video again Culgan, perfect refresher course for the remakes.

[@Dash-oPepper]

I'm not sure if I learned this in-game or from another source, but what I'm made to believe is that the reason why Lymsleia was not able to bear the Sun Rune was because she had not received the blessings of the Dawn Rune and Twilight Rune. Early in the game, it is said to just be ceremonial for the crown princess to visit the two palaces. However, Arshtat DID receive the blessings of the child runes which made her eligible to wield the Sun Rune, where Lymsleia never received either one. It's the same reason Gizel couldn't take the Sun Rune nor anyone else who may have tried.

[@MigrantBirdStudio]

I just finished watching it. Fantastic video! I liked when you said why the Sun Rune was your favourite. My favourite is the Rune of Punishment because of the whole tragedy aspect of it and how the scenes where Lazlo is in it in his dreams feel like a horror movie (and I am a massive horror fan). One of my friends years ago proposed that the True Runes could be based on tarot cards, but the devs addressed how it wasn't. I think that for the Rune of Punishment, Lazlo's mothers connection with it would have been the reason that it protected him. We could see how its connection to past bearers is a big thing from the dream sequences. The True Rune that I would want to wield is the Night Rune. He is up himself, but it would lead to fun conversations. XD

[@CulganValya]

Rune of Punishment has a fantastic story behind it. It's a never ending tragic tale, and as you said, constantly pulling its bearer through the memories of past bearers. Night Rune would be a wild time to be around, but I could definitely see everyone eventually pulling a Viktor and foisting it off onto someone else or hiding it away.

[@MigrantBirdStudio]

@CulganValya That is true. The Night Runes personality is a bit much... to say the least... huh... maybe the Sun Rune dodged a bullet with that one.

[@Holeros]

Arshtat accidentally vaporising Ferid and her realising what she had done hit me hard. 😢 No idea why that scene isn't ranked higher among the fandom for emotional scenes. I thought it was quite possibly one of the most tragic scenes in the Suikoden series...

[@CulganValya]

It's one of my favourite moments in the entire series. You could see her heart break as the runes influence took total control over her. Her heartache breaking the runes influence just long enough for her to suffer the pain of what she just did before totally snapping and going insane.

[@MigrantBirdStudio]

I am 10 minutes and 8 seconds in (clever way of transitioning to the Rune of Beginning right at that point which is why I brought it up) and learning the extra information about Ted was so sad. I would love to see Tir in a sequel as having mastered the Soul Eater. As for Windy not being able to obtain it from Tir, I can't remember if in the series if it has been mentioned if a True Rune wielder cannot wield more than one or if that is mere speculation based on what we have seen in the series. I am enjoying the video a lot and I can't wait to watch the rest! Great work!

[@nworder4life]

Didn't tir master it in Suikoden 2? Lazlo is a freakin power house too. He can shoot giant death beams that can level islands and huge fleets of ships and he can use it to heal too.

[@MigrantBirdStudio]

@nworder4life Tir didn't master it. There is a scene where the Soul Eater hurts him, but yeah Lazlo has scary powers.

[@CrnaStrela]

​@@MigrantBirdStudioI think that's just soul eater resonating to bright shield, but yeah he probably haven't mastered it yet, else he wouldn't be traveling with only Gremio who presumably already immune to the soul eater curse due to his soul already devoured.

[@nworder4life]

@@CrnaStrela Good point. I just always thought getting 108 SOD was mastering the soul eater but as Culgan pointed out in this video, that was the back end of the gate rune's power, not the soul eater.

[@CulganValya]

Ted's backstory gets more tragic the deeper you dig into it. Windy discovered a method that allowed her to bear more than 1 true rune. But there are things to consider, is it because she only bore half a true rune? Would it work with 2 full true runes? We'll never know.

[@MrDimrey]

Another great video, love your attention to detail^^

[@CulganValya]

Thank you. I appreciate the kind words!

[@Suleiman2000]

Clive's Gun named Storm is also said though unconfirmed by Richmond in Suikoden 2 that Storm had a true rune embedded in it

[@JeremiahEcks777]

They don't. All of the guns of the Howling Voice Guild are all 'sentient' but not because of True Runes. This is expounded on by Suikogaiden. Richmond knows a lot but probably doesn't know how the Guild plays ball.

[@Suleiman2000]

@JeremiahEcks777 maybe because Richmond doesn't have any lead on the guild which is understandable but really good analysis he could be the best spy, but he chose to return to Raddat after the war he never worked under Teresa

[@JeremiahEcks777]

@@Suleiman2000 I feel Oboro probably would figure it out. Richmond is very good but isn't as well informed as Oboro. That makes sense given Oboro's background, of course.

[@CW-hw8nu]

Fun fan theory of mine is that Jeane is the holder of the Rune of Change and the Sindar Leader. She's constantly moving around as the rune causes its barer to do (as shown by her always being present in different areas of different games) She's highly knowledgeable about runes and even the Sindar people. She seems ageless. Idk if it was ever even remotely Murayama's intention, in fact, I doubt it. But I really like it as a theory lol

[@nworder4life]

This is what Eiyuuden was missing, the design of the true runes is creative, complex and each possess a duality to them that somehow affects the bearers in both good and bad ways. I love your thoughts on the sun rune being separated from the Night rune and the kids keeping her in check. Gotta wonder though, why wouldn't sun be with moon and Night be with I dunno..light? Kinda strange. if I could have a true rune it would be the dawn rune because it's not going to try and kill me, it's gonna give me healing powers and protection with zero consequence. Bright shield would force me into a destined war with my friend lol. The elemental runes out of control can cause catastrophes, otherwise I'd take 1 of them if I could have that power fully under control. possibilities for the other 9 true runes? I HAVE TO go with Viki's rune, must be the rune of time and space magic. Blinking rune is either a child rune or it's a true rune IMO. Jeanne has that charm rune, maybe she's a true rune bearer with how many times she's appeared throughout the timeline. Maybe the dual nature of having people love you is the ability to have you understand how to love others. Yeah other than those 2, I really don't know what's gonna be revealed to be true runes, they all seem so random.

[@futu007]

If there would be a continuation on the main Suikoden series, I hope they include more background stories about the elusive characters, like Viki, Jeane, Eresh, and the likes. Speaking of Viki, I also wish they can include a true rune related to her blinking rune, a rune that somewhat enables the bearer to move between timelines, but the curse effect would be forgetfulness and eventually be lost in time if used frequently.

[@CulganValya]

Agreed about Eiyuden! The Rune Lenses in Eiyuden were lacking. They were just powerful ancient artifacts. They had no depth, no story, no complexities to them. I found it difficult to get invested in caring about them. Dawn rune is a solid choice. Nice mixture of healing and offensive magic with no negative effects. Picking a true rune is a tough choice. Too many of the true runes come with major negative effects that require mastery to tame them, and if you can't master it, the devastating effects could harm not just you, but everyone around you.

[@nworder4life]

@CulganValya Yea, imagine owning a True elemental rune. You would be 1 of the most powerful beings on the planet, but without mastery, the rune could go berserk and cause untold devastation, which could even turn governments against you.

[@michaeldychiao13]

Great vid! I still find the Moon and Night Runes very confusing (they both have power over creatures of the night)... The Moon Rune seems to share domain with Beast and Night (since it drives you mad [also like the Sun Rune])

[@CulganValya]

There's definitely some overlap between certain runes and their powers / domains. I wish we had more information on them.

[@eliotwildermann]

This was a great and informative video 😊

[@SailorYen89]

Also it's always so interesting hear someone else pronounce stuff. Either I'm very wrong, or you're very wrong, but either way it's fun to hear Suikoden words said outloud lol.

[@KingBuilder525]

When I saw your video on Yuber and Pesmerga, I was confused how Suikoden was inspired by the Eternal Champion books. Now, learning about the Soul-Eater Rune I am no longer confused. You should look into "Sailor on the Seas of Fate"; it'll put the Fog Ship in a new light.

[@CulganValya]

I just read a synopsis of it. Very interesting. I might have to check out his novels.

[@tanepukenga1421]

It's a good thing you're doing here, keeping the lore of these stories alive. Love the video, cheers

[@CulganValya]

Glad you like them! I have more on the way.

[@final909]

Good lore video, really hope Konami will contine the series to uncover the rest of True Runes

[@CulganValya]

Fingers crossed! If the remaster sells well there's hope the series will continue.

[@final909]

@@CulganValya Ikr, I know it sell well, I be getting all platforms for the remaster, just to support the series lol

[@viki803]

Nice explanations! I like it! I think you should change ur profile picture into serious one bcs this one is like parody sonic channel 😂😂

[@CulganValya]

I like my picture, it's dumb and unserious. But what should I change it to though? I don't really take the channel seriously because it's just a hobby for me. Something fun to do in my spare time. I'm not a professional youtuber. It's not a job for me, I make no money from this, so I may as well goof around with dumb pictures 😅

[@futu007]

I wish the bright shield rune and black sword rune had a unite magic like the dawn and twilight runes.

[@CulganValya]

Would've been cool, but considering the runes are at odds with one another. Narratively, I'm not sure a unite would make sense. At least until the end of the game when Riou and Jowy overcome the runes will and break the curse and the cycle.

[@futu007]

@@CulganValya makes sense. Since the united power of both the B. shield and the B. sword runes is the Rune of the Beginning.

[@JeremiahEcks777]

They technically do - Riou and Jowy use them together to kill Gerudo. I know it's their Lvl 4 attacks joined together but it's still a thing.

[@eliasfranca7173]

It seems that Jane is in possession of the Rune of Change. She is always in various places looking for something. She doesn't age and in my view, any strange speech she has, when she doesn't seem to remember things, is just a writing error due to a change of direction. In Suikoden 5 she is linked to the ruins and is even treated as equal to or superior to a mysterious witch who is also linked to the ruins. It shouldn't be much different from that since it's a rune that they never showed the image as well as never mentioned Jane's secret. (here I take into account the interviews about her not having a True Rune. In my opinion, they only said this to create confusion or even just to talk nonsense/lies).

[@nworder4life]

Do you think change can somehow be related to charm? Cause she's always with the charm rune.

[@grahamlanfear3900]

And that she has pink hair in 1 game only

[@eliasfranca7173]

​ @nworder4life , It could be that the Charm could simply be a rune that comes from the Rune of Change itself. Appearance (makeup) has to do with changing appearance, i.e. the Rune of Change itself. Here I am making a comparison that a person changes a lot with a good makeup.. which can make people feel attraction more easily. @@grahamlanfear3900 , In my opinion they just changed her art. I think it was possible that it was one of the ideas that was used in Suikoden 5.

[@CrnaStrela]

The true rune that I've always held soft spot at is always Rune of the Beginning. Forcing 2 people which most likely being best friend to fight each other to death in an attempt to become united as again is quite diabolical. I really don't want to be the bearer of this nor any of its component, but I've always thought the story it brought through the conflict it created was very melancholic and endearing.

[@muhammadrafifmurazza8377]

watching the suikoden 1 clips, made me excited for the remaster version!

[@2ndIgnition]

Interesting theory about Leknaat bringing back a Gremio from a parallel world, probably the best explanation Ive heard for that so far

[@CulganValya]

It's the one that makes the most sense to me. It can't be revival because nothing remained of his physical body. It can't be resurrection because his soul remained in the Soul Eater even after being brought back to life. He couldn't have been pulled from the past moments before his death as his clothes and axe remained. A parallel world makes the most sense.

[@iorifori91]

Imagine the beast rune in suiko 2 was just a tease for a future suiko title dedicated solely to that rune some tragic animalistic theme will go well with it

[@Sirmarklee23]

Loved this game to death. Still the number one on the list of all the games I ever played.

[@CulganValya]

Same. No other game has drawn me in as much as Suikoden has. There's something very special about it that other series don't have.

[@joshjuntilla]

I remember back then I was so invested on the lore of Suikoden so when the series discontinued, I was kinda disappointed that you will never ever know the complete lore especially about the 27 True Runes. You know what, since Konami releasing HD Remaster for Suikoden I and II, why not try remaking Suikoden 3, 4 and 5 into 2.5D graphics. I'm pretty sure long-time Suikoden fans would appreciate that. But that's just a wish. Pretty much it will not happen.

[@planescaped]

I'd rather a new Suikoden 6 set chronologically after 3. Or at least around the time period of 1,2 and 3

[@CulganValya]

I would love a "de-make" of 3, 4 and 5 in the artstyle of Suikoden 2, or HD2D. I agree, I think most long-time fans of the series would dream of something like that. It's basically a guarantee it won't happen, but it would be incredible if they did it.

[@NumberFiveYT]

The 2.5D graphics would be so sweet! Personally I think Suikoden 2 is still one of the best JRPGs of all time graphics-wise.

[@Suleiman2000]

i have a theory that Luc isn't just a clone. He is, in fact, the incarnation of the wind rune itself

[@Thejeretic]

Always loved the elemental True Runes from S3. Thought they did a great job fleshing out more of the story and the background of the runes. Plus it has Yuber, Luc and Sasarai, can't go wrong!

[@planescaped]

It really is surprising that the Night Rune wasn't in Suikoden 5 at all considering the games story revolves so much around the Sun Rune and the Night Rune's child runes. But I suppose it also helps make the world feel larger and grander in that the events of Suiko 5 can occur without the Night Rune even showing up.

[@CulganValya]

I imagine if the Night Rune was present the entire story could've played out every differently. I like that they keep things spread out. The world would feel too small if too many things or people showed up in each game.

[@rizuteru5361]

I always love the mystical and mysterious vibes of the 27 true runes , they grant you ultimate power but sometimes at a cost of your own life / sanity , like a saying say great power comes with a great responsibility. I love your theory about the sun rune angered because of being dumped by the night rune , and also anger because one of its child got abducted. It makes the rune very human which is actually makes sense considering the night rune itself have a personality. As for the question of which rune i would love to have , the answer is probably the bright shield rune , because i have too much attachment to it , more precisely riou , because he is my most fond childhood memories that i could never forget 😢

[@Suleiman2000]

Star Dragon Sword and Viktor are the best bromance 😂😂😂😂

[@CulganValya]

They do! Viktor + Star Dragon Sword is an unmatched duo. Star Dragon Sword and Edge from Suikoden 3 just don't have that same fun dynamic at all.

[@Suleiman2000]

@CulganValya he acts like he hates Viktor, yet in reality, he loves him

[@williamzeo2493]

Man I didn't realise that Tyr didn't have a happy ending, even though he returns to his house in Suiko2 sidequest the guy still will have the fear of killing his closed one friends. I thought that all the true runes were cursed but this seems not to be the case.

[@CulganValya]

It's thought that the Soul Eater is malevolent and cursed. But those are tales passed down through time. Once mastered, and Tir may have mastered it, the curse may be broken, but the fear that it might still take the souls of your loved ones will always be gnawing at the back of your mind. And that little fear will be enough to isolate yourself.

[@KingBuilder525]

One of my favorite aspects about the Runes in Suikoden is the contrast between their name and design. When you hear 'rune' most people would think of symbols used in a written language, but the runes are too complex and detailed to be a practical language. To me it gives them an air of ascendance, they are the language that the rules of the universe itself were written in.

[@SailorYen89]

omg i can't tell you how much "stupidly named village of the hidden rune" got me, laughing so hard while eating lunch. i'd never considered what a dumbass name that is.

[@CulganValya]

I mean, who names their village that???

[@SailorYen89]

@@CulganValya NOT people who want to hide a rune that's for sure.

[@Jimmy-ph8xn]

The missing 9 runes were surely held back for future installments. Given that we have so many life/death, elemental, and dimensional runes… I’d wager these runes are similar to the night rune in that they are more sentient and can speak. I’d wager vampires, like dragons came from other worlds and these remaining runes act as seals preventing cross over with these dimensions.

[@PrismaticWolf]

I am pretty sure that "Eightfold Rune" is a mistranslation from Suikosource and "Eight Section" is more correct. Murayama confirmed in an interview that this rune represents chaos and that Yuber is the embodiment of chaos. This leads me to think that it's called "Eight Sectioned Rune" because its design resembles the chaos symbol from the Eternal Champion saga. IDK I just think that "Eightfold" is leading people into overcomplicating things. (I think I left a similar comment on another video so I'm sorry if I'm repeating myself. That comment has disappeared, I think because I included some links to my sources and forgot KZbin hates links in comments)

[@CulganValya]

I lean more towards the translation of "Eight Section" as well. Especially after the Yuber and Pesmerga video I made. I was unfamiliar with the Eternal Champion saga at the time, so I researched a bit into it before making that video and Eight Section makes far more sense for the runes name. I never saw any original comment, but you're probably right that it was auto blocked by youtube for including links.

[@Suleiman2000]

I'm surprised the gate rune wasn't used to Isekai a hero 😂😂😂

[@CulganValya]

Don't give them any ideas. I'm so tired of Isekai 😅

[@Suleiman2000]

@CulganValya Sorry 😂😂😂

[@scottlemiere2024]

It's just too bad Konami has left this series dormant for 20 years. If the remaster sells enough, they might make Suikoden 6 finally.

[@CulganValya]

Fingers crossed. I think it's more likely that we'll get remasters of the other games in the series before we get a Suikoden 6 though.

[@vorchrollo]

In my head, vicky and jeane have true runes of their own, both are present in most of the series

[@JLorak13]

I've always beloeved that Viki had a True Blinking Rune.

[@rawwleklueze]

The child rune of the Beast Rune isn't identically named in Japanese, it's known as the Cursed Beast Rune or Wild Beast Rune depending on how you want to translate it. Also it being Sasarai that gifted the Beast Rune isn't actually a mistranslation as the error is present in Japanese as well, though Sakiyama confirmed it's been fixed in the Remaster.

[@mooby1721]

Am i tripping? I could have sworn there was a lesser version of the Black Sword rune you could equip in later games, just like the shield rune?

[@CulganValya]

@@mooby1721 You're tripping. Hopefully if they continue the series they'll make a child rune for it, because the black sword rune is awesome.

[@radosawtomaszsum8182]

I actually have 6 of those runes on my back. All made on the same day (summer of 2023) 😎😁 I have Soul Eater on my left shoulder blade and then 5 going down my spine: from True Lightning Rune to True Water Rune. I'm thinking about having the 7th one, most probably Rune of Punishment on the right shoulder blade 😎😎😎

[@kingdomtravelers]

I think that your comments about the sun run being a messy divorce holds true even more if you consider that the sun and the night runes were intertwined like husband and wife. That would make the leader of the queens knights the holder of the night or "knight" rune. Giving a reason to why the star dragon sword is so arrogant. This may also lead into why Ferid could sniper the queen out of rage and the games to pick the next leader of the queens knights showing the night rune that the next bearer would be worthy. 😮

[@heyrayraylv]

I can't believe Tir is Riou and Jowy's dad.

[@graycard668]

What if the circle rune is the rune of change inversed. Thats the sad part of suideken is that the world was so intresting ruled by these primordial concepts given form

[@davidfidiansyah170]

🤩

[@graveyardgary4482]

Didn’t Stallion have a true rune?

[@CulganValya]

Nope. The name of his rune is actually a mistranslation. The True Holy Rune should've been called the Godspeed Rune. It's not one of the 27 True Rune.

[@VoltMagnum]

what about the true holy rune by that running elf, it has true in its name

[@CulganValya]

That's not a True Rune. It's a mistranslation. It's actually called the Godspeed Rune.

[@firesmasher999]

It’s called the soul eater not the rune of life and death, the rune governs life and death. Like the rune of punishment governs atonement and forgiveness.

[@CulganValya]

Incorrect. It's called the Rune of Life and Death. The Soul Eater is a nickname the rune has been given in the Suikoden world. It's known by that nickname as it's believed to be a cursed rune that steals souls close to the bearer. The fears people have about the rune is what led to the nickname "Soul Eater". 生と死の紋章 - Emblem of Life and Death.

[@firesmasher999]

@@CulganValya i would like to see real proof if not its nothing but headcanon.

[@CulganValya]

@@firesmasher999 The sources are the Genso Suikoden Encyclopedia and the Genso Suikoden Kiwami Encyclopedia. Two official encyclopedia's released by Konami containing comprehensive and detailed information about the series as a whole. Buy the encyclopedia's and look it up. Since you want to talk about liking to see proof. Where's your proof?

[@firesmasher999]

That book is like 400 to 500 $.

[@firesmasher999]

I can admit when I’m wrong. There one I want to know in the remaster version what going to be the name of the farmer in suikoden 1 are they going to change it?

[@PatrickYule-u9j]

Too bad Chris Magic sucks in 4, only Runer Bearer who can't use their level 4 spell.

[@CulganValya]

She can use it if you get her to level 99, but she's an odd choice to be the bearer of a magic heavy True Rune.

[@MuhammadSolehBinBaharuddinxWF]

how bout True Holy Rune???

[@SeventhheavenDK]

If I remember correctly that's not a true rune, and its name is actually a mistranslation. The real name of the rune is Godspeed rune, IIRC.

[@Jeymz]

I always think that the suikoden makers sell themselves short when they said there is only “27” true runes. If they didn’t say that we could have make more amazing runes in the suikoden universe 😅

[@SeventhheavenDK]

Not so short. We didn't get to meet the 27 anyway. 🥲

[@Jeymz]

@@SeventhheavenDK yeah i know but we could have "true" runes for all regular runes we have. even the really dumb ones xD

[@nworder4life]

Too many runes makes them lose their mythical rareness.

[@Jeymz]

@@nworder4life hmm fair enough. i guess my biggest worry is that once we use up all 27 runes idk what they going to do after that

[@nworder4life]

@Jeymz move the runes to a new world, 1 of the many worlds the gate rune is connected to and then make new stories in a new world with the same True runes being involved....maybe😏

[@lordhawkeye]

Gate rune section - On the Gremio resurrection topic. First recall that the Resurrection rune exists. So reviving a fallen comrade is not impossible in Suikoden's world. Second recall that the Soul Eater, to be blunt, consumes the souls of those it kills or dies around it. These souls continue on stuck inside the Soul Eater. The Saturn version of Suikoden expands on this with a set of scenes inside the Soul Eater with Gremio. Lastly recall that Leknaat's rune is the "exit" half of the Gate rune. So it took the combined power of the stars of destiny to power Leknaat's rune enough to open an exit door to the Soul Eater's void, where the souls consumed by Soul Eater reside, for Gremio's soul to escape and be resurrected. Night and Sun rune - I always thought the Night rune was just being childish when you first meet it. Claiming its counter part annoyed it into severing the bond between them to roam the world free. Then you play Suikoden 5 and you do see just how unhinged the Sun rune is, how it constantly warps the bearer into unleashing its destructive side and requires the Dawn and Twilight rune just to keep it dormant. No wonder the Night rune wanted out. Can you imagine having a counter part whose only desire every waking moment was to just see the world burn? That would exhaust me for sure.

[@lordhawkeye]

For details of the Saturn version just google Suikoden: In Depth Analysis: Saturn Comparison Guide. It should take you to the Suikosource website with pictures and translations of the texts those that missed out by playing the PlayStation version.

[@CulganValya]

The resurrection rune being able to "revive" is more about waking people up from being unconscious. We've never seen a case, nor has there been any documented cases of it actually reviving someone. Gremio's soul didn't escape though. In the scene with Windy at the end of the game in the gardens of Gregminster palace, when the Soul Eater rejected her, Gremio's soul was still present within the rune even after being brought back to life. Also, remember that Gremio's body was eaten. No trace of his physical body remains, so hypothetically, even if Leknaat pulled his soul out of the Soul Eater, there's no body for it to return to. I have the Saturn version. I've played it multiple times. I even have a video uploaded about it.

[@lordhawkeye]

I find it funny how you dismiss that fact that it is called Resurrection rune as some kind of wording error. My point is that it exists. So resurrection itself does exist within the world albeit rare and likely at a great cost. If it were just a rune of waking people up then it would be the Awaking rune. It is not. The name matters. That has been the case in Suikoden. Gremio's soul has to have left from Soul Eater in the perfect ending. Since you played the Saturn version you would know the scenes of Gremio inside the Soul Eater while Leknaat is channeling her exit half of the Gate rune. If they did not matter then why were they created in the first place? Their very existence denotes relevance. Why would Leknaat's Gate rune be able to bring anyone back at all if it were not creating a exit point from somewhere. That is the very nature of her rune. It makes sense that she was creating an exit from the void of the Soul Eater's realm. We know that realm exists after all thanks to the scenes of Gremio's soul within the Soul Eater. It took the extra juice from the assembled stars of destiny to recreate Gremio's body back along with his soul. Fast foreword to the end of the game. To when Tir gets transported to a different plane thanks to Windy's entrance half of the Gate rune and the Soul Eater then communicates directly to Windy. But it can not talk. So instead of speaking the Soul Eater shows Windy the four souls that it recently had manipulated the deaths of to consume. The Soul Eater then tears a hole in reality to put Tir back in Gregminster. Now Windy is not Tir. The faces of those four people carry no meaning to her. She would recognize Teo and Ted, she might recognize Gremio and Odessa means nothing to her. Windy does not understand what Soul Eater was trying to convey to her hence Windy's outburst of frustration when she is rejected. She thought this whole time Soul Eater's nature is just to kill people and eat their souls. It is not. The Soul Eater's nature is to consume the positive forces in the rune bearer's life until they themselves give up and want to die. At which point the Soul Eater will then gladly consume them and move onto the next host. That is why the Soul Eater rune is called the most cursed rune. Windy however has no love for anyone, no close ties to be manipulated by and no desire to die. Windy has nothing that would sustain the Soul Eater's hunger thus Windy is rejected.

[@CulganValya]

​@@lordhawkeye ​ Because it is a wording error. To be more accurate, the rune is a translation error. It's name when directly translated from Japanese would be the Demonic Emblem, or to more accurately describe it, the Exorcism Rune. It's a holy rune to purify evil, and its primary function is fighting the undead. This matches with the description of its spells. Scolding - Damage vs the Undead Yell - Cures Unconscious vs 1 ally Charm Arrow - Damage to all vs Undead Scream - Heal HP Not a single one of that runes spells makes any mention of resurrection or revival. Every time, Yell is specifically mentioned as "Unconscious" or "Unconsciousness", and the damage spells deal bonus damage to the undead. The runes name is a translation mistake. It's the Exorcism Rune. If Gremio's soul had to have left the Soul Eater in the perfect ending, then why does his soul remain in the Soul Eater during the perfect ending? But let's pretend that Gremio's inclusion in that scene was an oversight by the developers, and hypothetically, if Leknaat did pull his soul from the soul eater, where did his body come from? It was devoured by man eating spores. Nothing remained of his physical form. There was no body for his soul to return to. His body didn't exist within the Soul Eater, only his soul. Now look at how the Soul Eater works. It gains power by taking the souls of those close to the bearer. Each soul it consumes unlocks new powers. If Gremio was revived in the way you say, and his soul removed from the Soul Eater. How does Tir retain access to the final spell? If it loses a soul, the source of its power, shouldn't it lose its corresponding power? As for the moment of his return, rewatch the scene or read over the dialogue from the Saturn version. Gremio says "I don't want to die here". If he was being pulled from the void of the Soul Eater, why would he say that if he was already dead? He knew he was already dead at that point because of the way in which he willingly sacrificed himself in Soniere prison. I'm not saying you're wrong about your thoughts on his revival, but I do disagree with your view on it because it seems improbable as I consider other alternatives to be more likely. No official answer was ever given about the specifics of how Gremio's revival was possible. Everything everyone is saying, you and I included, is nothing more than our interpretation of events. I fully agree with your last paragraph.

[@onefatpiggy]

I thought Jeane, Stallion and Vicki are carriers of True Runes hehehe

[@CulganValya]

Fumi Ishikawa (character artist) said Jeane doesn't possess a true tune, but she has been wrong in interviews before. Stallion's rune is a mistranslation. It's the Godspeed rune. It's not a true rune. Viki is unknown, the Blinking Rune is not a true rune as you can get one in Suikoden 2, and you can get two of them in Suikoden 3. Although she *may* possess a "True Blinking Rune", but that is unconfirmed.

[@blumiu2426]

How does a shield represent chaos? That just seems like being contrarian without putting thought to it.

[@KingBuilder525]

I'm reaching here, But Jowy's plan was peace through overwhelming force. Order requires law, which in turn requires the ability to enforce law. That being said everything around the lore of the runes says otherwise. The sword became the sky which is associated with air and chaos, whereas the shield became the earth. Perhaps the Shield represents the chaotic nature of wildlife and growth?

[@CulganValya]

@@blumiu2426 I suspect it's for reasons similar to what KingBuilder said. Sword represents law and order through force. Look at Luc's vision in Suikoden 3. Order won. A lifeless empty world of perfect law and order. No freedom, no individuality, nothing. Perhaps Chaos isn't exactly chaos. It may not be a tale of good vs evil as we might suspect. What if Chaos is freewill? And the Shield is to protect freewill from Swords law and order? Freewill leads to chaos, which goes against Swords perfect order. What would be more chaotic, at least from Swords perspective of wanting total law and order, than people having the freedom to choose their own paths. But this is my sleep deprived brain talking.

[@blumiu2426]

@@KingBuilder525 Order means that all things are in their proper place, in harmony. People tend to confuse order with authoritarianism or they take it to it's absolute extreme. You don't see this with chaos because the extreme of that is just hell. It's based on the DnD alignment or that is based on Yin/Yang philosophy rather than adhering to the definitions themselves. The sword is used on the road to achieve peace, but never the thing that actually brings it. One can debate on that, but as for the shield being chaos, no. It just makes zero sense. Not even it's magic implies this. Nature is actually ordered through entropy, we consider it "wild" in our perspective because we're vulnerable to it, yet conversely we can have dominion and be stewards of it. Just looking at the color schemes, abilities and positions of the protagonists all illustrate a specific contrast.

[@blumiu2426]

​@@CulganValya We can logically understand that's not "order", that's oblivion, nothingness. Order implies things are in their proper place, in harmony/entropy. If there is nothing existing, there's no order. That's like a bad guy saying he's come to bring order to the world when he means destroy it. I can't recall any villain ever saying such. If anything, it's an extreme exaggeration and fallacy, because order can be brought through the sword, but not by it. Swords are tools of war meant for conflict, to take a life. The intent of the wielder doesn't change the nature of the tool. That is unless we call war orderly conflict. Law are rules to protect the individual and society, that's not the same thing as abuse of the law. It's describing corruption of law and order. Also, that would be tyranny, totalitarianism if there is no freedom. One has to apply their definition of freedom as almost anarchy if the reverse is that extreme in response. So it makes sense chaos is the opposite, yet "order" is not the right term. Freewill is the ability to choose, right? I don't find that chaotic, it just allows people to choose rightly on their own. The cost of that is they can choose to do evil. It's one option of it, but so is to do good. People use a shield to protect life, preservation, the sword is meant to take it. If we have to apply philosophy instead of looking at things how they are, one can interpret it however they please. I think they are simply being abstract not exactly using the best symbolism as far as the shield goes, as they seem to be Yin and Yang and we know they apply a relativist thinking to such. That may work in Eastern thinking, but the Western world thinking is more in absolutes' we only have two results in the world based on our actions, separating intent. Joey represents chaos as he was led by his emotions, was impatient, demonstrated disloyalty and distrust in others and gained authority and control by the sword. Riou's path was the structured one, harder fought but guided properly by the other 108 stars on the correct path. He even shows mercy to Joey, always in control, didn't even fight back canonically. If you asked anyone who represents what, they won't give a contrary answer one has to do mental gymnastics for.

[@williamzeo2493]

@@blumiu2426 It's confusing but when you mentioned chaos by D&D rules I agreed that it makes sense for the shield, as for the alignment system chaos is the resolve to choose your own path and not abide by the rules (law), remember that we also have chaotic good and neutral (with neutral being the most dangerous one in my opinion). Riou chooses to break the tradition and refusing to kill his friend. Long @ss answer of the D&D book: Lawful characters tell the truth, keep their word, respect authority, honor tradition, and judge those who fall short of their duties. Chaotic characters follow their consciences, resent being told what to do, favor new ideas over tradition, and do what they promise if they feel like it. "Law" implies honor, trustworthiness, obedience to authority, and reliability. On the downside, lawfulness can include close-mindedness, reactionary adherence to tradition, judgmentalness, and a lack of adaptability. Those who consciously promote lawfulness say that only lawful behavior creates a society in which people can depend on each other and make the right decisions in full confidence that others will act as they should. "Chaos" implies freedom, adaptability, and flexibility. On the downside, chaos can include recklessness, resentment toward legitimate authority, arbitrary actions, and irresponsibility. Those who promote chaotic behavior say that only unfettered personal freedom allows people to express themselves fully and lets society benefit from the potential that its individuals have within them. Someone who is neutral with respect to law and chaos has a normal respect for authority and feels neither a compulsion to obey nor a compulsion to rebel. She is honest but can be tempted into lying or deceiving others. Devotion to law or chaos may be a conscious choice, but more often it is a personality trait that is recognized rather than being chosen. Neutrality on the lawful-chaotic axis is usually simply a middle state, a state of not feeling compelled toward one side or the other. Some few such neutrals, however, espouse neutrality as superior to law or chaos, regarding each as an extreme with its own blind spots and drawbacks. Animals and other creatures incapable of moral action are neutral. Dogs may be obedient and cats free-spirited, but they do not have the moral capacity to be truly lawful or chaotic.