IDENTIFYING MISFIRES USING PICO MATH CHANNELS!

Thank you all for tuning in to Super Mario Diagnostics!
Today I'd like to share a technique that can be helpful in pinpointing light/intermittent misfires when scan data is of no help!
I hope you all enjoy, like, share, comment and subscribe!
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[@jameswasher3938]

Mario, I'm impressed with all your growth these past couple of years. Your customers are lucky to have you work on their cars!

[@billyyoder8171]

Thank you Mario. Great job. I hope you don't let the critical comments affect you. You did just fine. You did state the scan tool gave no direction as to which cylinder was misfiring. The key points you taught us: How to setup and use the frequency math channel to identify which cylinder had the fish bite misfire. Then focusing on that cylinder's secondary ignition waveform to see the low kV and short burn time. Then you went further, than most shops would have, to locate the root cause that will shorten the life of ignition coils. Awesome job brother. I'm very proud of you. Have a blessed and safe week.

[@SuperMarioDiagnostics]

Thanks for the words Billy! Always good to have people understand the intent of the video. 👍👍 have a great weekend buddy

[@billyyoder8171]

@@SuperMarioDiagnostics you are welcome. You too have a great weekend.

[@alexanderthegrape5370]

Putting the 'S' in Super very informative and educational. Thanks for sharing 💪😎

[@codysautodiagnosticsprogra8706]

Man you are killing it on the math channels bro!! Also like the monitor mounted on the wall. Top notch stuff like always

[@JoesAutoElectric]

Very good information. Great video! Keep em coming brother!

[@chrisczarnik3439]

An excellent diagnosis of the misfire. I am 78 years old, so all this equipment was before my time. Interesting to say the least.👍👍👍

[@ScienceOfDiagnostics]

Great usage of the math channels Mario. A prime example of thinking like the computer to analyze a fault. This definitely could have run a lot of techs around for quite some time. Keep it up man.

[@davidmuley164]

WoW. It's great!!;!

[@andrewk778]

Another exceptional video. Videos like this are exactly why I watch KZbin videos. Thank you for sharing.

[@orville58]

Man dude you are nailing it I used to understand some of your stuff but now you’re up in the ozone lol I’m going to keep digging to try and keep up. Thanks for sharing

[@ThePracticalMechanic]

Top notch information Mario. I will have to try this on the next misfire.

[@DylanRabier]

This is fascinating. So many features on the Pico that I'm not aware of. Thanks for sharing Mario! 👍

[@spelunkerd]

Always nice to see things from a different angle, especially when it points to how the computer uses CKP frequency to do a misfire count. Most of us would have found the vacuum leak, fixed that and then months later get a callback for the bad coil or plug/wire.

[@SuperMarioDiagnostics]

Couldn't have said it better myself!

[@MaicSalazarDiagnostics]

Definitely top notch info my friend! I’ll be trying this my self too! Thanks for sharing your knowledge

[@lowridermig]

As always great job!

[@High_Tech_Mountain]

Wow! That’s crazy! Your last video was helpful but this was on another level for me. Never heard or seen of math channels being used in that manner! That’s awesome brother! Thank you for sharing! Top notch! I also believe Jim Morton mentions Lean is harder to burn & it’ll continue to kill coils. Great diagnosis!

[@SchrodingersBox]

Dude that is a brilliant technique!!!

[@gregjones8501]

Great video!! I just learned a tad bit more of what to look for using a math channel!💪🏾

[@manuellamas4747]

Never disappoint. Great video and strategy. You show live info to teach . Awesome

[@weldingjunkie]

This was fantastic Mario I’m glad you’re getting this stuff out there so people can use Pico to his fullest potential. Great stuff man keep up the great work.

[@kc360awareness]

Love it Super Mario Thank you for keeping it simple and concise.

[@vlstyles]

Found this in a search for cylinder contribution without Pico Automotive software. Thanks a million.

[@halvorsonmx]

That was awesome. Thank you for making these videos. It's greatly appreciated!

[@stahuskies2539]

love it! Fantastic video!!! Never tried math channels to find those tough misfires but man is that ever useful!!!

[@caliautotech21]

I’m loving these how to on pico videos !! I’m gonna be way ahead of the game when I finally get mine! Great video bro!

[@carlasagaris8259]

Brilliant information as usual, thank you 🙏

[@steveanderson4553]

Great Stuff Mario !! Thank you

[@kirkabrahamson1148]

Great video Mario. Using the more advanced features of the Pico is what will separate the men from the boys when it comes to that ultra tough diagnosis. You are right up there man.

[@geologic740]

Good presentation. I appreciate your in depth explanations as someone new to scope testing.

[@ginuwine11]

Mario I asked you earlier on vids about Math Channels, Thank you for coming through. 2020 is looking good already!

[@crystal1484]

Great work!!👍

[@wyattoneable]

That's really digging into the debts of the PICO! Fantastic information Mario.

[@paulpaquette1961]

Extremely useful information Mario! Great vids on Math Channel usage. This is a dead nuts ringer for misfire diagnostics tool bag!

[@padraiggalvin2807]

Great job. I always thought this could be done some how but never put the time into studying it and figuring it out. Thanks for sharing. very well explained too

[@alexandriabowe]

Thanks super Mario, great lesson.

[@kellyr9388]

Great info Mario Thanks.

[@Pablo_Automotive]

Great job with math channels again, thanks Mario

[@terminaldiagnostics5576]

Great usage of the Pico been using maths channel for various things went on a Pico course and the things it can do that you didn't know was there is unbelievable great informative video keep them coming

[@catzwa]

Fantastic video!

[@JBTaylor86]

Impressive stuff Mario 👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻

[@DanWallis86]

Really great explanation.

[@christianbateman4530]

Good bit of information. Bud you make our lives easier.

[@alfredofonque9707]

Hola Mario, excelente vídeo, algo nuevo, una cosa mas para diagnosticar con pico, gracias por compartir sus conocimientos

[@kellyspeppers]

Nice video, always learn so much.

[@hansvarca3616]

I like the way you make a video mate so short but meaningful , keep it up 👍

[@user-bp1sw1wh8e]

Great video. Bro. Have a good one!!and safe day!!

[@EugeneIrimia]

Thank You for this case!)

[@edwinbrewer1789]

Bad ass! Thank you for sharing. I will have to start practicing.

[@exmotorsports]

Dang Bro..again another kick ass math channel video. Impressive stuff. Show us more 😀

[@kellyr9388]

2nd time watching this Mario, great share thanks.

[@stephanevaucelles6378]

thank you for the video and these explanations

[@JoelAutomotiveInaction]

great content very high tech💪🏻💪🏻

[@nelsonnarciso1791]

Because of you I'm starting to like math again. Lol. Great video buddy.

[@Dont_Gnaw_on_the_Kitty]

This technique furthers the art of diagnosis. Who would have thought to use crankshaft speed to identify a misfire!

[@brianritchie75]

Great job

[@frogger18w25]

excellent info you are using a software very well nice job

[@mike-yp1uk]

I think it's time for me to invest in a pico. Great work

[@billyr9840]

Nice !

[@MiguelMartinez-np8uo]

Great video Mario I have much to learn about scopes and how to use it properly. Which model do you have if you don’t mind me asking ?

[@SuperMarioDiagnostics]

4425

[@markferraro5250]

great job SM love the way your using pico with these case studies Got me thinking if the Trans ISS in park at idle would feel a misfire much like the crank sensor unlike the crank sensor its not encoded its pure frequency no normal drop out i will run a test on my honda a creat a misfire and create math channel to see if it has diagnostic value thanks again

[@SuperMarioDiagnostics]

Great idea! That would make for a great capture 💡

[@alekstolstoi]

what book or dvd training do you recommend to me for proper use of my picoscope to get 100% use? where can I get it?

[@dannynelson2763]

Great video by the way. I do have a question was the misfire still there after the vacuum leak was repaired? i'm assuming it was the vacuum leak its self could cause misfires. Thanks again mario another tool to put in my arsenal.

[@SuperMarioDiagnostics]

No the vacuum leak did not fix the misfire, since the coil was already weakened, the damage was done. The vacuum leak only caused the coil to weaken over time, not directly cause a misfire. So fixing the vacuum leak, the intermittent misfire kept happening.

[@joshstaton508]

Good stuff here, and a great thought process. How long do you think you had in the total dish time. I would have gotten funny looks from the management if I tried something of this nature, but I would have been fumbling around not knowing what I was doing. 👍👍

[@SuperMarioDiagnostics]

Racking it up, hookup up the scope, spending some time with the secondary, hooking up to ckp, analysing math, honing in on cyl 4, scanning it, checking live data, then some testing it, I believe was about 25-30 minutes

[@joshstaton508]

That’s awesome, thanks for taking the time to share. I will be working on be more proficient with this.

[@techoldie932]

👍👍👍

[@ablackformula]

I'm curious if this vehicle's transmission has some sort of input shaft speed sensor. Perhaps that trigger wheel would not be missing teeth and can make the waveform a little easier to read. Then again who knows if it would have the resolution and detail to show each cylinders contribution. I like what you did here though-- you became the pcm! Maybe pico can make an update to somehow "average" in the missing teeth to give a better rpm variation waveform..

[@xerxes456]

the coil was bad? and it was bad because of a vacuum leak. Great tip Mario

[@SuperMarioDiagnostics]

The coil was over worked, and prematurely weakened, by a lean condition. Which led to an intermittent misfire

[@xerxes456]

@@SuperMarioDiagnostics thanks Mario it makes sense, less fuel make it harder and more energy needed to jump the gap at the spark plug

[@gcmd5852]

Cool process. Similar how the Escope software uses ckp to pickup crank acceleration/deceleration?

[@SuperMarioDiagnostics]

I think the escope uses exhaust pressure pulses to identify misfires,

[@hyundaitech]

Hey mario thats a great video, do you know any chance i can apply to that frequency measuremnt to an autel scope? Thanks in advance..

[@SuperMarioDiagnostics]

Not possible at the moment

[@hyundaitech]

Ohh.. i would really love that feature especially to identify those intermittent ones. Maybe i need to buy pico or escope. Haha but kidding aside, thanks for the reply.

[@jerrychircop7121]

Where do you get technical info and wiring diagrams?

[@wh7349]

1word - golf 72

[@enriquelucio1646]

Exelente video todo un profecional porfabor los puedes elaborar en español por fabor

[@SuperMarioDiagnostics]

Este video tiene subtítulos en español

[@jameswasher3938]

Fantastic Job Mario. Any chance you'd be willing to share the psdata for that?

[@SuperMarioDiagnostics]

Sorry bud i don't have the psdata saved

[@jameswasher3938]

@@SuperMarioDiagnostics no problem. Thanks for responding. The reason I was asking was that I thought it would be fun to post-process the CKP data to impute the signal for the "missing tooth", then run it though FFT to see the rpm changes. I'm kind of a data junkie.

[@philh9238]

Where did you learn all this math channel stuff? Just accidentally found it one day?

[@alanw5879]

How do you get the freq to have that wave like look to it? I'm running a module around 10khz and all I get is the elevated wave but it's all spikes, just straight up lines.

[@SuperMarioDiagnostics]

You will have to edit the range, and zoom in tighter to see the waveform how you should

[@alanw5879]

My range was about 9k min and 10k max, plus other adjustments I've tried, what range would you recommend for a 0-5v pwm @ 10k? Maybe it's a zoom thing on the freq?

[@SuperMarioDiagnostics]

Send me the file through messenger

[@ozzstars_cars]

Nice job Mario. Math makes my brain hurt. 😬

[@bosshoss14]

Wait so I don’t know if I understood correctly. Did the vacuum leak cause the premature failure of the coil?

[@Leo00893]

Bro u guys don’t sleep?

[@lovetolearn5253]

Just curious and to make sure I'm understanding your thoughts and findings. The lean condition caused the coil break down? To much air and not enough fuel so the sparks can't make the jump? I have a hard time with things like this. Can lines and electrical issues come easy for me but this stuff just seems like a lot of variables. Please DON'T THINK I'M SECOND GUESSING YOU I'm just trying to learn and it takes me a couple times to truly click.

[@SuperMarioDiagnostics]

The lean condition caused the coil to over work and weaken over time. A weak coil is the direct cause of the intermittent misfire. The lean condition is why it got weak.

[@jbaerial537]

I love most of your videos, I do, but I can only give credit when I believe it is due

[@SuperMarioDiagnostics]

kzbin.info/www/bejne/r3TGmXqEhqqAmqc You're welcome And what credit? This is the first comment you've ever made in my channel!

[@jbaerial537]

I have already watched his videos a long time ago. At 55 seconds into your video you commented that the scan tool gave you no direction. At 8:00 minutes into the video you said that you looked at fuel trims after doing your scope testing. It was your fuel trims that set you on the path of repairing the problem. Not spark outside of the cylinder. A vacume leak could give you a lean misfire which would affect the burn line in the ignition wave form but not the spark outside of the cylinder. Besides are you are trying to imply that a vacuum leak will cause the misfire to happen in the same cylinder ? Come on man. You know better than that

[@jbaerial537]

I loved your video on the pressure pulse sensor in the coolant to find a bad head gasket. I loved your in cylinder pressure testing to find the faulty lifters on that Chevy Taho with that cylinder drop out system. You are very knowledgeable and are a good mechanic and a guitar playing is cool. But you tried to stretch the facts here. You should do like Danner does and just admit when you went down a wrong path instead of insisting that you haven’t. It would be more respectable. It makes me question your motivation to put out videos.

[@SuperMarioDiagnostics]

Joel Bookhardt "there was nothing in the scanner that would point me into a direction of which cylinder was the culprit" Lean misfires are often disguised until the ignition system is loaded. That's why many times the car has to be snap throttled to load the ignition system, in order to reveal a lean misfire. A burn time of 600 microseconds is proof that spark did not enter the cylinder. A lean condition weakened the coil. This coil happened to be the first one to show symptoms of an intermittent misfire. If the resistance within the cylinder(lean) is higher than what the(now weak)coil energy is able to overcome, spark will not enter the cylinder and will find an alternate path to ground. I never said the vacuum leak is the direct cause of the misfire, only the root cause of premature coil weakening/failure. The direct cause of misfire is a weak ionization For you to say you give credit where it's due, this is the first comment you made in any of my videos, even though you say you usually love my videos. But the first time you make a comment, you call it a horrible video? That's a bit unfair I'd say. The information is still valid: a ckp frequency signal can pinpoint a misfire, when there's no misfire codes, no mode 6, and no misfire counters to help pinpoint which cylinder is misfiring(which is what i said at 50 seconds into this video). Which is the real intent of this video.

[@wh7349]

Excell

[@wh7349]

Mate I am 13.5 tonne 2nd gr is the key

[@IamReadyToRock]

min 3 el man que pasa tapado 😄

[@christopherdwayne1110]

Don’t understand you method of putting in the firing order , I don’t see how you can say that some peaks have 2 cylinders an some have one ,can anyone help out here .thanks Dwayne newzealand.

[@christopherdwayne1110]

I don’t understand the crank notches as ther is 4 notches in 720 deg not two , has it got 2 cutouts per revaluation.Dwayne nz

[@SuperMarioDiagnostics]

Yes there's two cutouts on the tone wheel. 4 notches for every 720 degrees

[@NOEISY1]

HOLA Mario ayuda por favor tengo una 2003 nissan frontier 3.3 con misfire PO300 y ya le cambie , bujias ,cambles ,distributor y con el scope en los injectores todos medan una signature de 90v a 94v y con la Amp clamp de 800 a 900 milli Amps cada una ,y I test los upstream oxygen sesors con una vacuum leak muy grande y poniendo brake cleaner y Si responden, pero tengo el SHRTFT1 a -18% y LONGFT1 a -10% pero el SHRTFT2 25% positivo y el LONGFT a 5 positivo por momentos en cuando se ciente Mas el misfire !

[@SuperMarioDiagnostics]

Suena como un catlizador restrijido. O un exhaust leak, este vehiculo, es muy comun que tenga un exhaust leak.

[@NOEISY1]

@@SuperMarioDiagnostics muchas gracias ya estoy listo para aser eso ahorita estoy viendo un video de scannerdanner sobre eso ,gracias Mario

[@NOEISY1]

@@SuperMarioDiagnostics Hola Mario a chequiar los catalizadores en contre el problema los upstream O2 sensor estaban conectados MAL with the wrong Bank muchas GRacias

[@bennybenny31]

Were about are you?

[@SuperMarioDiagnostics]

Miami FL

[@richardcranium5839]

wow thats some deep thinking. now figure out how you can use the math channel to find a short duration on a burn line in an ignition pattern i challenge you!!! ( mostly because it would take me a decade to do lol

[@SuperMarioDiagnostics]

😂 that's a great idea! 💡

[@VoltageDropDiagnostics]

First! Haha!

[@CO-mp3dw]

Voltage Drop Diagnostics 😂

[@wh7349]

1111.11

[@jbaerial537]

Ok so now it’s a faulty coil caused by a lean misfire stressing the coil ? I didn’t hear that in the video. I went back and rewatched and again didn’t hear that. It may have been a oversight in your behalf to not explain that part. My understanding was (spark outside of the cylinder.) then you went on to the vacume leak, so I’m not trying to bust your skills I just didn’t follow that because you never said that you had a bad coil in the end.

[@SuperMarioDiagnostics]

In the video i said spark isn't entering the cylinder. Then i mentioned Jim Morton and his question, what's the root cause, did the coil fail, or did something cause a premature failure of that coil(where I'm looking at the secondary waveform) ? That led me to look for a lean condition, since high compression was ruled out since it wasn't a dead misfire. Should i have used scan data first to find the vacuum leak, sure. But in the end of the day, I reached the same result. And finding the vacuum leak first would not have led me to the misfiring coil anyway. The result is the same.

[@SuperMarioDiagnostics]

To think that fixing the vacuum leak would have fixed the misfire would directly contradict your statement of a vacuum leak not being able to cause spark outside the cylinder. Two separate diagnosis Fixing either won't help fix the other

[@jbaerial537]

Gotcha. Like I said. Until this discussion, I had no idea that you replaced the coil. I believe that is where I got lost. I thought that you were trying to say that the vacuum leak was causing the spark to occur out side the cylinder. To me that was B.S. I am sorry about calling your video horrible but I don’t think that you relayed the info well in this one. If you would have been trying to make that connection, then I am right to call B.S. when I hear it. I appreciate you filling me in on the rest of the facts

[@SuperMarioDiagnostics]

No prob, I'm glad I could help clarify. The last thing i want to do is misinform. Maybe you're right I could've explained it better. Hard to be extremely focused when filming, it's a work in progress for sure

[@carstengotfredsen160]

🚘🔧💻📊📉📈 ✔️ 💪