Surveillance Education (w/ Nolan Higdon & Allison Butler) | The Chris Hedges Report

[@ChrisHedgesChannel]

For the students and former students watching-has your school ever made you use one of the platforms referenced in the interview, such as GoGuardian or Turnitin? And if so, were you at all aware of the surveillance implications, and what do you think knowing them now?

[@mrp1927]

You use them or you fail. In k12, most states use them to track children's progress. This progress is then used to determine teacher's wages in places like Florida. There is no path for objection. In university the same thing happens. Students have to use programs like Canvas. Your teachers track you with it and your data is used to show teacher success and college success rates in classes and types of assignments. I used them. I objected to them. I was laughed at or told, "do it or quit". Capitalism has bought everything. There are no spaces for ethical objections left. I have had education experience with these types of programs in Florida, Mississippi, and Idaho.

[@JessicaPhillip-i8l]

As a former student, I've used Turnitin before for assignments. I had no idea they saved our data back then. I plan to have kids soon, I wonder what measures parents can demand from these districts to protect our kids data. Does the book specify a way forward?

[@Thurnishaley6969]

For online tests in college we have to use Guardian Browser which monitors your screen and mic. The site Proctor U is what we use for a live monitor (usually from outside the country) to send us a file to download which lets them control our computer and sign into midterms and finals. You have to find out how to delete these surveillance permissions yourself after the test is over. It's essentially malware and they have been sued by the US govt before. I would look into Proctor U, they're very sketchy but I have no choice.

[@matthewingerson]

Stop voting for RWers. RW-extremist Repub & moderate-RW Dems have enabled this, and allowed it to continue.

[@kellidoty1]

I'm a reentry student at California State University Long Beach, taking classes online. Turnitin is used and although I know that it means there is surveillance, I can really only choose to drop the class or agree. Zoom as well. I have stopped using social media (Facebook) because of the Harvard scholar who wrote about surveillance capitalism years ago. I'm considering leaving my phone at home. I feel for the youth who only know education through technology. Just requested your book at the local library.

[@Marxist2]

This is an incredibly important topic & the realities it unveils should frighten us all.

[@thomasmollo3568]

Thank you Chris Hedges & Guests for this masterpiece discussion. Much better wake up than a whole pot of coffee. Great work from all of you! 👍

[@lindarichardson4986]

Thank you, Chris Hedges, for interviewing the authors -- and for inviting students and former students [teachers too, i presume] to comment on their own experiences with Ed Tech.

[@d.thorpe2046]

Every time I hear Chris speak about Zucotti and Occupy I get a huge swell of pride. Best thing I ever did with my life. The 99% will win.

[@lokiva8540]

@@d.thorpe2046 I wonder why Occupy didn't occupy 1400 Federal Blvd, Carteret, NJ? That would have been taken far more seriously by Quants and scammers inside FINRA and NASD and SEC. ((Both ideally could supplement each other.)

[@halloola3636]

I wish I could agree with your last statement but I can´t. 80% are lazy and thus dumb.

[@TheEraLad]

Thank you for your journalism. I did not know this was happening. We need more privacy protections

[@jennybleasdale1815]

Get of your phones

[@abelflores1593]

Really you didn't know it was happening have you noticed all the cameras at all the traffic lights they're monitoring you at every intersection

[@lawrencea274]

Absolutely excellent dialogue with two well informed people.

[@jodis8689]

Thank you for this! I am a community nurse and my tablet that we document on tracks us for so-called "productivity". I did not find this out until I tried being a manager and then immediately stepped down.

[@rozalialuks6583]

Thank you all! #LONGLIVERESISTANCE

[@TI.T.O]

You just ended up on Maincore or T.I.A (total information awareness) You might hear a voice in your head, telling you things. These "voices" are from real people. They are pigs. They can neurally monitor you from your cellphone.

[@littlesigh]

Amazing… had no idea. I recall lifting my desk lid to hide my actions from my teacher, yes I am that old, marking up text books and such. As noted it is ubiquitous and we have asked for and allowed much of it to happen. Nolan and Allison are intrepid writers and should be heard. Thanks for this discussion Chris.

[@theflyer4285]

Excellent work. Thanks for the interview. I will read the book.

[@liesarenowtruth3880]

Wow excellant guests and this topic needs more coverage. Thankyou!!!

[@ghostagee5232]

This is a masterpiece. Bravo sir.

[@evel7344]

Excellent, Chris.

[@SusanD101]

Mr. Hedges, thank you for bringing this out especially where there are no social programs to help the poor and some of the city kids, in both the US and Canada, are now illiterate or semi-literate. Also, it is important to never do an online survey where one is offered bonus loyalty points or cash if one does that survey.

[@23shan]

Great discussion, a topic that is hardly discussed anywhere else.

[@Frisbieinstein]

Training youth to serve the state cannot begin too young.

[@SavePlanetPlease]

What a world

[@smurfmama2020]

A cell phone is the ultimate surveillance tool , don’t fool yourselves.

[@peterboytRaKs]

Great book. A must-read textbook for every high school pre-grad.

[@denversdabsc6073]

touches on what Yanis Varoufakis calls technofeudalism.

[@fredfredrickson5436]

Sure, but wasn't this conversation more focused on real-world automated discrimination, thought policing, and exquisite social conditioning. To be honest, I don't find Varoufakis' thesis particularly helpful, since it untethers our present dystopia from its historical context by explicitly reframing late-stage capitalism as a distinct sociological phenomenon (.i.e. technofeudalism) rather than defining it as a phase shift within an ongoing continuum. Perhaps if he'd shifted the emphasis of the metaphor and described what is unfolding as technoauthoritarianism, or techofascism (which is the inference here), he might have been more persuasive. But good luck getting a book deal, and lucrative commissions on the speaker circuit, on the terms of that argument, right?

[@shyman3000]

@@fredfredrickson5436 untethering it from its historical context is the very point of his thesis. That historical analysis has a limited application to what is going on now. We are in a fundamentally new context.

[@fredfredrickson5436]

@shyman3000 And yet, at a fundamental level, capital is still the enabler, capital accumulation still the incentive, and commodification still the model. Yes, there is monopolisation ("feudalism"), but monopoly is a natural and ongoing feature of the capitalist paradigm, just as it was during the age of the robber barons that followed the technological phase shift of the last industrial revolution. I know capitalism is like a religion to the media saturated American cult, and in that regard they hardly notice the heads tumbling down the temple steps, but the simple truth is, if perverse profit incentives were removed from the equation, and robust democratic oversight applied to these powerful technologies, we'd be experiencing them in a far more positive and constructive way.

[@rogant19]

thank you chris hedges

[@joshl.685]

Great conversation guys. I hope we can wake up the rest of the public to what's going on. Maybe then we can see these tyrants fall.

[@slampersand3145]

Not surprised. Thank you for your work.

[@tshanahan6934]

Thankyou Nolan and Allison.

[@peterandjoycevanbreemen600]

Thanks Chris Hedges.

[@silviopina_111]

Brilliant! Share, share, share!!!

[@MikeBohlmusic]

Important topic thank you for the upload!

[@KC-lc8dx]

Freaky, but not surprised. Keep up the great work.

[@Brinjal-yu1vi]

Salute Chris Hedges. 🙋🙋🙋🙋🙋🙋🙋🙋🙋🙋🙋🙋🙋🙋

[@KC-lc8dx]

The view to like ratio on this is pretty amazing!

[@jaysphilosophy1951]

The future is offline.....

[@user-yuan-s6g]

Thank you

[@lokiva8540]

One consequence of these systems is that they track and sometimes monitor or record camera images on laptops often set up in student bedrooms at home. Some teen students have sex, alone or with partners, in those spaces. Schools and their remote contractors record those camera views. Has anyone yet heard of a school system, its admins and teachers and School Board, and their remote contractors, being prosecuted or convicted of producing CSAM, using covert tracking of minors?

[@ince55ant]

i dont even think it needs to actually have recorded anything, just he potentiality is enough. like if someone put cameras up in a public bathroom, thats surely illegal even if no one used the bathroom while the cameras were up

[@lokiva8540]

@ince55ant Privacy and surveillance laws are a mess of disparate laws and standards across states, and with many twists. What if public officials take a meeting agenda item into a bathroom, or if employers or employees do so, for sexist reasons, to violate public records law, or if a criminal defendant does so, whether individual or corporate, and someone detects a discussion that reflects the legal felony or fraud exception rules to legal confidentiality or privilege, and a conflict exists of privacy law, versus exceptions to collect criminal evidence; or one party vs two/all party consent laws, and quirks of applying differently across states to audio, video, stills, or telephones or online defined in disparate ways? OTOH, CSAM laws are far more uniform, but have some different defects as to how they're applied. They're also usually more serious, and have fewer quirky conflicts of law or fine print issues.

[@MarianneVelasco-f9r]

@@ince55ant

[@crackthefoundation_]

There have been cases of this, I think in US and also UK at least

[@lokiva8540]

@@crackthefoundation_ I know I've seen specific cases of school officials and/or their IT contract services producing and viewing CSAM remotely. What I'm unaware of are prosecutions or convictions of school admins, political overlords, or their contractors of systems or software who have violated such laws, and belong unemployed and convicted felons.

[@billfargo9616]

A body camera that the cop can turn off is useless in policing them.

[@krisniznik3953]

They're not really for policing the police.

[@walterlippmann4361]

Snowden tried to warn us. It's a real Permanent Record, the kind we always feared.

[@l.w.paradis2108]

The kind we once laughed at when they threatened us with it.

[@davidwright8432]

Yes. You are what we've recorded about you, and concluded on this basis. Only this, and nothing more - as that's all 'the system' knows about you.

[@stephenluksic3448]

Thanks!

[@lynnhilding3200]

Love your work!

[@Guitarpima]

2:57 movie. The 10 Commandments. Ramses is inspecting the murder scene of Baka. Ramses says to Dathan, “because of you, the pharaoh sees”. We have been under surveillance for a lot longer than you think. The technology has improved ever since.

[@beritmason8567]

they probably studied 1984 and Brave New World to learn how to do this. those tales were words to the wise. but for tech bros, those books were blueprints.

[@cheri238]

💯 correct

[@lindarichardson4986]

Even GPS has a dumbing down effect.... I've found that few youth can read a map or know where they are in time and space. Few have navigable skills or exploratory interests in the world around them. Many can't even identify N, S, E, and W when they are outside and lack the ability or desire to grasp or appreciate the spatial layout of a community, town, or city.

[@02sweden]

This is what author Paul Kingsnorth calls "the machine".

[@joecalta3679]

Turn it in has been around since early 2000’s at least. I remember having to submit all of my essays to turnitin back in 03 or 04.

[@christophertinklerart2020]

This seems tangentially related to the fact that at least in Canada there is a police presence in schools. They have a “liaison officer”; this was brought in when a school shooting happened in Toronto I believe and without serious public debate was mapped nation wide or at least in Ontario. Once that kind of thing has happened it is hard to remove such a change. Likewise with technology, information has been sequestered digitally in a curated garden just like with Wikipedia, omissions are made to make it double plus good. The decimation of agency of the citizenry is a huge issue not just in this context, across the board. Books have largely been taken out of school libraries which have now been digitized. One solar magnetic storm later we will have the library of Alexandria all over again. To the point though, we are forced on to digital media for precisely that, capture, control and grooming for an ideology that the population never signed on to. Back to the issue of criminality, it seems that “curating, data mining, predictive human behaviour modelling, selective information dissemination, behaviour and social engineering” are not in the reasonable realm of acceptable either in the hands of the private sector or corporate or oligarchical controlled government or even government. There is never any discussion, we are spoon fed “progress” without question. In a climate crisis when deg-rowth is what we need to be doing and getting our lives back. There is also the concept that the more Ai noddles on our thought pattern development the more easily our inherit creativity and individual natures and intelligence are extracted and weaponized against us or sold back to us. “ The excuse of Plagiarism is a joke as these technologies are precisely an attempt to capture minds completely and intellectual ways of thinking that power would not otherwise be privy to as let’s face it we are all on computers increasingly with little AI thieves on our shoulders. You couldn’t get more Orwellian then that. It’s like they read 1984 and said to themselves, er… let’s make it happen. One of the Greek philosophers chided that writing was a dangerous technology. Publishers were the curators of that. It’s an interesting concept to think how things remain fest and compound but not in a good way. In these modern times the kings=oligarchs and aristocracy=corporations”private sector” cattle=the rest of us human beings essentially we are owned almost entirety by these two groups corporations and oligarchs so what has change from pre-enlightenment times other then the efficiency that technology provides to capture and commodify us more completely and throughly. At no point is community in this equation other then that our communities are decimated and not allowed to grow through non managed social interaction at every level.

[@w__a__l__e]

the future is so disappointing it is literally the opposite of what i expected.. i was expecting getting close to some sort of utopia but reality is closer to a fuckign dystopia..

[@KnicksTape73]

happiness is a function of expectations

[@Turdfergusen382]

Chris Hedges, could you please consider putting on the folks over at Project censored? Please and thank you

[@davidwright8432]

I assume the notion that students, parents or guardians should have view, or review power over what's recorded, simply elicits hearty laughter from the algorithmic providers.

[@frankesquivel7590]

Great show, pretty scary stuff,thank y'all so much🙏

[@Warkurus]

I believe the bias of algorithms is terrible oversimplified. It sounds as if your program just copies the programmer. However the biases of social sciences and of natural sciences are different. For example in social sciences you have a personal or political bias, rather self explaining. In natural sciences your maximum likelihood estimator for example gets a bias just from the provided data being normal distributed and its bias will depend on the standard deviations of the normal distributions. This is not necessarily bad, because the bias-variance trade-off will help you to minimize your error.

[@glengrant3884]

SHINE BRIGHT CHRIS!!!💥🙌AUSTRALIA!!!🤍💙❤️💥👊

[@woodysdrums8083]

We have no need for anyone pointing out more horrible shit in this country..what we need is action to stop it.

[@michaelgnit8476]

Years ago I was performing as a farm animal at Yonge and Dundas in Toronto and watched as person after person was so engaged with their phones they walked off curbs, into trees, parker cars and more. Phones aren't addictive? Of course they are. When the use of a device can put your life in danger without you recognizing it your an addict.

[@DrumguyCiv]

Can you say “control freaks?” I knew you could!

[@LadybugWinter]

Informed consent needs to become the law for everyone, including minors. Parents don't often understand what their consent means for the child when it comes to government surveillance, especially when the government decides the surveillance needs to continue well into adulthood, again without informed consent. This is a complete violation of the 4th Amendment (against unreasonable search and seizure). The 4th Amendment was written 250 years ago because other people's information has always been valuable and for sale. By the way, the telling of half-truths is a type of lie called lies of omission. Lies of omission are meant to deceive.

[@danielasteierer6135]

No technology in the classroom until let’s say 10th grade??and prior to using technology in a classroom students should be educated on surveillance history (court cases/laws enacted -reasons and implications on learning and society-possible exploitation thru behavior modification)

[@meganbaker9116]

The idea that American public school students ever had any privacy or a shred of sovereignty at school to begin with is ludicrous. I certainly oppose the government and corporations using students and their information, but I’m not so narcissistic as an adult as to believe that this is THE problem with industrial schooling. In reality, nothing is more at home and logical in such an authoritarian and distrustful system than standardized testing and surveillance. This is my gripe with Hedges: he unpacks every injustice and indignity EXCEPT the school system (and Child “Protective” Services, child abuse, etc.). He is, at the end of the day, as adultist as anyone else. As far as he goes he’s correct and more informed than most critics, but he has the same massive blind spot everyone else does.

[@fancyprinter]

So, what you're saying is that we're being stalked in every aspect of our lives, and that this surveillance will probably/is already being used to stifle dissent/opposition/new ideas? That's frustrating, to say the least.

[@matthewingerson]

It's even worse than you've described. They are using your information to come up with ways to shape your thoughts and propel your actions. But that's always been the goal of the corrupt wealthy-class with their corrupt RW-politics. kzbin.info/www/bejne/fYuYiYGVoq94brs

[@PeterPotnoodle]

What do you suppose teachers do? They are the original and still the best surveillance system, and still the best suppression system for creativity, originality, and dissent. Nothing beats the classroom environment for damaging children, that's why it's compulsory.

[@onebigzero5266]

thx mate.

[@Kuleto]

People need their privacy. Individuals and developing young people need their mental, psychological freedom to explore and learn freely without fear (except taqwa for Muslims) and to think freely for humanity's own sake and for our own individual humanity, to be ourselves, without some computer A.I. or government or any such programming.

[@badomaji]

My HOA uses surveillance on homeowners - they are looking for anything they could possibly use against residents to assist in confiscating their real estate. They are conniving to acquire the number needed to sell-out this subdivision to a hungry developer. Real property to be developed is becoming scarce in FL, so along with building in flood-prone areas, confiscation of citizens' property has gained in popularity.

[@ince55ant]

can children make FOIA requests? also everyone should watch Cory Doctorow's speech at this years DefCon

[@madeleineswords704]

This was the plan since universities/ schools became " Businesses " oh and "profit before people " Then written into the law " feduciary responsibility~ The company must, by law, put profit before people

[@silviopina_111]

32:45 The "red apple" example

[@christiansmith-of7dt]

I go through the entire process so I know what you guys did wrong later

[@michaelc35162]

Ableism is baked into society; marginalization continues. Where in this important topic are privacy protections, if any, for students with disabilities and/ or chronic medical conditions?

[@lowkeylikeLoki]

Great video but re: the concluding advice, our schools are already "factories" with almost no space for curiosity (through no fault of the over-regulated/over-burdened teachers). We can only hope more teachers here this message to resist.

[@lo5374]

Does this include Canvas, the ‘ learning management system’

[@gregorylumpkin2128]

We are screwed as a species.

[@batekrown]

Panopticon 😱

[@lifeofdesperation]

Wonderful interview Chris. Nolan and Allison deserve amplification of this important topic. They were also on the Coming From Left Field podcast a month ago: kzbin.info/www/bejne/bZa1m4ugq7tro9U

[@d.thorpe2046]

The comment about "totalitarian regimes being able to deny the right to ask certain questions" really hit me. I'm gonna tell my boss the suggestions box should be renamed the above.

[@bohditony]

Lexus Nexus is also the data base any employee who is fired from a corporation is added to . Especially if they are pro union

[@DreamMadeFlesh]

Nietzsche already wrote about "factory schools" a long time ago. To the extent that education is sanctioned by the powers-that-be, then it is then it is the mechanism that drives us to hegemony. The form of enforcement is new but the principles behind it are very old.

[@littlesigh]

1984 is what we want and what we will get

[@Michael-nt1me]

...School to Prison Pipelines.... Digital ...Surveillance and Visioneerings.... Future ...Citizenship and Censorship....

[@Whatdahwhere]

How would someone file a lawsuit against surveillance responsible for stealing your idea / product ect… involving a patent . This is just one example of negative aspects pertaining to surveillance that I’m going to mention. Would it ever be an option to be in a designated area where surveillance is posted as prohibited with fines and other penalties for the perpetrators?

[@AndrewAnderson-vb4pp]

They are building a profile of you from the day you are born to be used against in the future

[@MJSSPACE192]

Not surprised at all, thank you for sharing

[@Chipwipple]

A camera in every home, every classroom, every terlet….

[@johnlone141]

Unfortunately, young people are so easily conditioned. To be honest, I just want to fast forward to the Mad Max future, that I can handle. What we live in now, I cannot take seriously, what a clown show. Thank you Chris.

[@musiqtee]

As important this is - I hope we as people can transcend the «issue» stage, as well as its parallel of individualism. Most «issues» are interrelated, and most individuals again relate to them and other individuals. No «fairy dust» needed, this isn’t magic. Just very strange to us, because of our education and culture. Indeed, it’s getting worse since tech that we like & use, is the very tool for _some entity_ to get the holistic _we_ are mostly distracted away from. Ironically, the distraction is created & delivered through tech itself - the «bread & circus» of our day. Keep us happy and distracted… If only for ecology itself, we need to connect dots to reimagine some form of holistic realism. That’s probably on the individual, the ontology - but very contrary to individuals in blinding competition…?

[@lindarichardson4986]

And, sadly and dangerously, medical portals have very limited algorithms that cannot handle the nuances of health and disease insofar as patients and doctors' entries are pre-prigrammed and have to fit into already-determined categories, all of which may not be sufficient. Medical data used for determining policy and designing or evaluating research is, therefore, bunk. Yes, garbage in, garbage out.

[@nickjohnson3619]

Anyone remember the Simpsons episode with funzo?

[@TheHumanEarthling]

For the algorithm >.

[@TI.T.O]

All our cell phones have neural surveillance technology embbed in them. Our cell phones can read our minds

[@therealtoni]

how do you criminilise someone who has indeed broken our laws to get here???

[@jonathannigro875]

This book ties into all of this: School World Order by John Klyczek. It dives into the forming of Public Ed and Rockefellers....pancake poison manufacturers.

[@land8871]

Hello Chris. Can you do a video about your qualms against Marxism. You have said on various occasions that “Marx’s critique was right” but you always follow up that you aren’t Marxist. Thank you

[@TheEraLad]

I would be interested in seeing this as well!

[@cheri238]

✌️

[@radman1136]

$56.50 for a new trade paperback? Good luck with that.

[@punapeter]

All the smart parents I know homeschool or use charter schools that don't even use the grading system. TAKE CONTROL of youe life and the life of your kids. Although we don't have that kinda tech in Hawaii. LOL I'm still on DSL

[@MarkGledhill-s1q]

The firms you are talking about are sinister predators,gaura nitai gauranga

[@jaysphilosophy1951]

Didn't Snowden identify the problem a decade ago? And yet were still talking about this?

[@bobhope5114]

We lack any agency to influence outcomes...don't kid yourself.

[@abdullahbueno7532]

Eric Arthur Blair’s 1984 in 2024

[@kristinashepherd3003]

Thank you for your articulate guest . I really enjoy Whitney Webb as she says basically the same thing but it sounds more conspiracy theorist and bat shit insane but articulating and framing the issue with better terminology and linguistics goes a long ways and is actually threatening to the status quo’s and this also lends credibility unlike her .

[@Puffball-ll1ly]

The Left was hood winked away from economic and social issues by all this woke crap. More than half this conversation is about woke issues.

[@therealtoni]

What's wrong with using tech for finding illegals?

[@txexmxiii9561]

A LOT OF UN MONITORED MONORING

[@MichaelMikeTheRussianBot]

Turn It In - anti-plagiarism software that allows AI/advertisers to better plagiarize kids? :0

[@ChukMitchell]

A digital Gestapo