Survival Shelter- Basic Scout Pit

[@primitiveskills]

Excellent theory. After living in one for weeks at time over the last twenty four years, I can see where sound theory would make sense over the experience of building them in the appropriate location with the right materials. I invite you to come to our school and experience a scout pit your self. The experience is fun, comfortable, and educational.

[@primitiveskills]

Thanks Braden, valid points. We cultivate a degree of literacy outside of "suffering until rescued" and need reminders that many folks aren't inclined to train to the point of comfort without a knife in wild places. The lean-to is a popular shelter, and effective in sub-tropical and arid temperate zones. I would recommend our debris hut shelter for a tranistionary (survival) shelter. You're correct, Scout Pit is more toward "Earth Living" than survival.

[@primitiveskills]

Awareness and knowledge of place make all the difference. No backhoe, my neighbors tractor hauling round bales. With e-tools in Maines rocky clay soil this took three hours, double that time with digging sticks. Most of the time was dumping the dirt around the bases of trees and camouflaging it to look like part of the trees root ball. These pit shelters are still there, still dry, and ready to be used. "Earth Living" goes beyond small three to five day excursions with stone tools. These are placed on migratory roots. Here that means seasons foraging, trapping, and hunting areas.

[@primitiveskills]

10 yrs. is a healthy start! I too am a beginner and student of these skills at only 32 years. All we have to rely on is our direct experiences & the comparison of ea. others stories. I've lived in these for a number of weeks as both a long term (anything over 2 wks is no longer survival, but earth living) shelter, & as a hide. Your assesment is correct, for "survival level" skill sets, this is too laborious, & only a "hide". For those going beyond, it is a great migratory shelter.

[@woodsyteacher]

As an environmental educator of 10 yrs & a retired military survival instructor of 15, I've not found a school that comes close to Maine Primitive Skills School. You should know that the staff at PrimitiveSkills trains SERE instructors as part of their rotation. Each instructor is mandated to go through at least ten days in ea. season in full survival (no knife, no gear) for 2yrs before being put on the pay roll. They humble, professional, & speak from decades of their own direct experiences.

[@primitiveskills]

Thanks "Woodsy"! We have a lot of folks that come through our programs fitting your description/background, so I apologize for not knowing who you are. Your assesment of our school means a lot. I hope our paths cross again sometime and that we have an opportunity to share skills again. See you on the trail.

[@primitiveskills]

In wet/dry sand or friable conditions, shoring is achieved with stakes and saplings. In short, you weave a retaining wall that also acts as a compression ring. Your minds are taking you in all the right places, now you just got to plug in the rest of you for an amazing experience. Come on! Get out here! We're about to start a Scout class this Wednesday. It's going to be a great experience. I promise you won't regret it.

[@primitiveskills]

Excellent question! "below frost line". The term "below frost line" refers to earths mass retaining a temp around 52 degrees f. yr round depending on dpth and severity/duration of the cold. A grass mat/ leaf litter & the trapping of radiant body heat makes this shelter "comfortably cool" year round. It can be used as a LP/OP as well as a migratory hide/rest area. In mobile survival, involved shelters such as this are a liability, & site selection for hasty shelters becomes vital.

[@primitiveskills]

We do! Our courses run year round. Today we start a hide tanning five day and next week is a winter skills course that deals with getting shelter, water, fire, and food from the winter landscape.

[@primitiveskills]

Excellent theories. After living in one for weeks at time over the last twenty four years, I can see where sound theory would make sense over the experience of building them in the appropriate location with the right materials. I invite you to come to our school and experience a scout pit your self. The experience is fun, comfortable, and educational.

[@primitiveskills]

The door plug is put in to place and removed from within the shelter by its occupant. Come to a scout class. We have had apprentices live in them for weeks at a time over the last seven years and I and my instructors the same since 1989. We would love to show you how comfortable they are as well as the details necessary to weatherproof and camo this versatile and effective shelter design.

[@barbelman3089]

I like the concept but I would try and dig this pit on a hillside or slope with a drainage hole, at the bottom of the pit, going down and out lower down the slope, otherwise the pit will just become a pond in rainy weather. Also the bark would have been better layed at right angles to the cross beams ,so it doesn't curl under through the gaps as it was doing. Great video though, thanks!

[@totlich]

This is great! I know you guys trenched and made a good water proof roof with the bark but I am guessing this would turn into a bath tub with some heavy rain?

[@primitiveskills]

Excellent question. For snow we have a whole different approach to mobile survival and keeping our signature on the landscape to a minimum. Tracks radiating out from a scout pit is like painting a "bullseye" on your location. Thank you for your interest in what our school has to offer.

[@jelkel25]

Thanks for the upload! That's the beauty of having a human brain, if you see something that doesn't work for your environment/situation/liking you can get off your backside and change it. Most armies have some form of semi/covered fox hole or trench designed to live in for a few days or longer, there's also shelters designed to avoid capture and they both have common features with your shelter so I think yours is a very good starting point and people can then use their own intelligence and ingenuity to change or improve it.

[@primitiveskills]

Only for the novice. In time you transcend the need for a structure and adopt concepts/materials available in the area of operation; 3 most important in our bioregion is managing conduction, radiation, & convection of ones core body temperature. It's good to that you are concerned & motivated enough to develop & share your skill sets. Would love to have you over to the school sometime to demo how these & other concerns are/have been effectively addressed w/ this shelter for centuries.

[@josedejesus6209]

Always carry a shovel with you when in the woods----Rope---lighters---matches---rifle --- 10 x 10 tarp .....a shovel...... in cold weather you can dig a 6' X 3 ' by 12 " deep hole in the ground and fill the ground with green branches---cover the top with branches and you got a shelter....Or look for a ditch and do the same process, you don't have to dig in the cold ground.... Another easy emergency shelter is a TEE-PEE 3 --4---5 --6 branches 4--6 inches thick and with string around the top of the logs you have fast tee---pee shelter ---all you have to do is put the tarp around the logs---or---branches tie the tarp with strings ----put branches on the ground and you are protected from the winter.. Easy survival shelter.

[@Shrewd_Enough]

I like it its kind of like our fortified foxholes for the Army. Though it seems like a lot of work if I was out in a survival situation. Is it more of a fall back type of deal?

[@primitiveskills]

@totlich Hasn't yet. The clay rich soil remains damp regardless of the weather, which can cause your grass matts to rot if you dont line the floor with boughs to keep it elevated in your absence. I just checked on of the three scout pits just recently (this is mud season) and the floor has no pooling of water. Again, location is key. The Scout Pit is for long term stealth applications, no shelter at all or a modified debris hut are best when fire making is a liability.

[@LesRamboGrylls]

@primitiveskills I have experience with this pit shelter. I dug mine on my uncles property with a backhoe in 20 minutes. Mine has never gotten wet or flooded. you guys lay off the maine skills guy. He may be rude to you viewers in the comments but he knows survival and is an excellent teacher.

[@primitiveskills]

@enjoythewildUSA Excellent point, thak you. In this weekend course we built one shelter as a class in order to leave time for other skill sets. The hours invested, if multiplied by the folks involved would be a little over five and a half hours for one person. This terrain is one of the worst possible for digging as it is rich in thick clay and laden with large rocks. As a stand alone shelter, it is one for sandier of loamier conditions. We modify the key concepts in ME to make it work.

[@1x93cm]

would this shelter work in the winter? it looks really neat since its so low profile

[@primitiveskills]

@colddrake80 Again, location is key. I've lived in a Scout Pit for two weeks w/ no moisture problems. It's more comfortable than debris hut in that the temp is comfortably cool yr. round with some tweaking in the winter mnths & you have space to move. The dirts & excess is camo'd as a tree root ball or dispersed. I mound it next to/around a leaning tree, or place bark over it to mimic a fallen log. The biggy is avoiding routines & making trails to your scout pit. Rock/Log hopping helps.

[@yahyahaider7942]

THAT TREE BARK THINGY IS EPIC!!

[@primitiveskills]

@sundogforlove Hasn't yet. The clay rich soil remains damp regardless weather, which can cause your grass matts to rot if you dont line the floor with boughs to keep it elevated in your absence. I just checked on of the three scout pits just recently (theres a thaw) and the floor has no pooling of water/ice. Again, location is key. The Scout Pit is for long term stealth applications, no shelter at all or a modified debris hut are best when fire making is a liability.

[@go4hydro]

thats pretty cool for a shelter but what happens if it snows and you are trapped?

[@primitiveskills]

@actonbath This shelter's a favorite of the Dine' or Apache'. These nomadic desert dwellers are renound for their tracking, mobile survival, and adaptability. In fact, it wasn't until the Apache' wars that the U.S. military, seeing how useful these types of shelters were via their own Apache scouts, started using "fox holes". These folks live in a region filled w/ scorpions & pit vipers. Some awareness w/ these critters goes a long way in preventing careless encounters. Your Experience?

[@primitiveskills]

@brizzx32 No, with this shelter, the point is to remain undetected, this design, used by the Apache scout, is still used as a Listening/Observation platform in modern areas of operation.

[@primitiveskills]

Good insight! While this shelter is camouflaged to invisibility it does temporarily disturb the mycelium mats. The long term change in elevation and soil stratification actually increases biome diversity in this area. This runs against the contemporary approach of "no-impact", but works well couched in "pro-impact" models more aligned with hunter-gatherer philosophies found around the globe. Lean-to's can be effective for short duration. Check out debris huts (we have some vids on them too).

[@11rachelannlong]

Would bugs be a problem? Also, could this be made with a debris shelter on top? Maybe for storage or for extra warmth or even like a 2-story shelter for 2 people?

[@TheWesternking]

@turbzdajuggalo for the heat "problem" your talking about, the grass tput in the bottom and the coverage put on top plus your natiral body heat would keep you nice and war

[@Krakology]

can u build a deeper one, for Long term shelter

[@primitiveskills]

We peel the logs to prevent them from rotting. In our climate leaving the bark on the logs means they won't last more than two years. By peeling them we get five to seven years out of each shelter.

[@primitiveskills]

@colddrake80 I understand where you are going with the raised wooden floor, & it would certainly last longer than the grass mats we use, which are good for about 3 months, unless you leave your door open. Ishi! Great study in invisible survival/importance of community to make long term survival work. I often position my scout pit among fallen trees to both camo it better and provide multiple points of entry/exit with minimal disturbance. It's a quieter approach, helpful in noisy understory.

[@siinew]

Awesome for hide sites, for sure, but depending on the weather and where you dig this, you may need to BYOS (bring your own snorkel). This approach to staying hidden on the landscape has been around for thousands if not 10's of thousands of years. We used variations of this idea very successfully on many a recon mission when I was in the military.

[@christinadepa5431]

having a 'staff' of people to 'help' build always is ideal....We can accomplish way more working together as a team

[@conmcg6917]

how do u make the grass mats plz do a more in depth video

[@primitiveskills]

@slinkydog2222 A fine example of lack of awareness or consideration of depth, drainage, weather, and usage. In comparison, the scout pits we have slept in over the last 8 days in this course and the Scout Class remain dry and comfortable despite three days of heavy rain. Experience trumps theory every time.

[@jebus419]

you said you lived in one of these for two weeks? is there any problems with carbon monoxide build-up? or are there any other problems with using this as a living quarters? i think this would be a nice shelter that could be left behind when needed but be undiscoverd while your gone. thanks for posting!

[@primitiveskills]

@T3hJones I wish! Unfotunately, we haven't had much luck with legless lunches. Occasional frogs and toads and insects and spiders, but they are easily removed or "smudged" out.

[@conmcg6917]

i can rain for a couple days straiht where i live how do u keep water off u from the side walls?

[@sundogforlove]

would this shelter fill up with water in the rain?

[@williamburdon6993]

If you build these on a small rise of ground , water is not a problem, unless the whole area floods I built about 20 of them when I was a kid. You learn as you go to get above the level of the land.

[@primitiveskills]

@siinew Thank you for your intelligent response. Your comment regarding awareness and location are spot on. Too many folks disregard the value of direct experience when it comes to learning these skills, especially with shleter design. It takes a few miserable nights to increase the learning curve. Something not available to folks who only read a book, watch a video, or hypothesize with undo authority from their chair. Hope to meet you on the trail.

[@colddrake80]

@colddrake80 Also would a raised wooden floor be feasible? Have you ever tried it? Yes it is more labor but I think it would be worth it.

[@mogges1]

Will i hear the guy up by the fire pit saying it was freezing. so I assume it must of been pretty warm in that scout pit.I think one could add a fire pit in side and leave a place open to let the smoke out.only downside might be that would let rain in.

[@primitiveskills]

@ArtisanTony Haven't had one fill with water yet (21 years and still buildin' 'em). Secret is location and a slightly domed top, coupled with a cork shaped door plug (tapered). They're pretty cozy. We have had folks w/ claustrophobia freak out a little bit though!

[@SPACEMONKEY288]

if i built into a big mountin just a hole big enough for me to barley stand in an just big enough for a one person bed an a fire pit for cookin food is there a chance of it caveing in on me

[@colddrake80]

I would consider this more of a hide than a shelter. Even properly placed I can see water as THE problem. A raised wooden floor w/ a sump might help but it would still be damp and dirty. A debris but would be better but easier to spot. Though if place in a thicket or behind some terrain features would mitigate that. How widely would you disperse the bark shavings to prevent detection? Would you have a separate processing/construction site?

[@primitiveskills]

Survival only takes a lot of energy during the transition stage (first 4 days) & beginner levels after that. We eat nutrient rich/calorie poor wild foods (flora & fauna) instead of modern nutrient poor/calorie rich foods. Even in kids programs, when knives are allowed as part of the survival experience, we have to bring fruit, not due to expended energy, but to address the physical withdrawals from sugar/refined flour on the 6th/7th day. The pit, for well drained soil, is comfy/long term.

[@primitiveskills]

You are only lost w/ you've a place to be & time to get there. Fear & suffering are healthy responses to the unkown. Therefore, if you are well aquainted w/ your area you've all the time in the world. Suffering in nature: a comment on lack of awareness/skills (confused w/ some distorted version of a heroes journey). Don't shy away from discomfort; the increase in bounty once you learn through experience to be comfortable & unrushed in landscapes devoid of climate control is priceless.

[@primitiveskills]

@hoosierarcher Excellent queries! It would seem so at first glance. Location is key. Choosing a well drained, slightly elevated area on the landscape and doming the top gaurantees water sheds off and away. The grass mat or thick debris floor couples with keeping the radiant body heat from escaping too quickly helps to maintain temperature and offset any cold sink effect at such a shallow depth (usually 28-34 inches).

[@primitiveskills]

Yeah, I'm very familliar with military training, a lot like Boy Scouts w/o the adult leadership. Too many folks think it's long term or "expert" level. I invested 8yrs looking for "expert level" survival training. Headgames, rifle cleaning, PT, but avg. woods skills. I really like the hammock as mobile E&E shelter, & use a jungle hammock when doing contract/security details in swampy/hilly terrain. Low signature as opposed to lying on the ground. Scout Pit is LP/OP (intel/infiltration)

[@drewkroeker]

Do you get mould in your scout pits? I have been living in my hole for almost a month and I have noticed white mould growing on the logs of my roof. When I built the shelter I put a tarp over the logs to waterproof it. The moisture from my breathing ends up on the ceiling. What can I do to solve this issue?

[@Mingebagz1]

How well would this work in the winter for someone who was homeless?

[@primitiveskills]

It has been used for that purpose by our staff and community for extended periods of time.

[@Mingebagz1]

Thank you, would adding a tarpaulin improve the water resistance?

[@primitiveskills]

We used birch bark, but yes. The important piece is that it is located on a high point and the covering is slightly mounded to shed water on all sides. In "living outdoors" conditions, these discreet shelters are ideal in elevated areas near urban areas because they are low profile (nobody steals your stuff) and you can access them quickly. If you use them, create multiple approaches to avoid making trails that would give you away. I walked on fallen trees and logs and usually kept three approaches. You don't want folks observing you entering your area for security reasons. Good luck!

[@stdugo1]

so what happens when it rains and your sitting in a little pond???

[@emood219]

Hey guys I would love come up and join you on an outing, I live in Warren so its not that far from you. Do you have any winter courses?

[@primitiveskills]

@dbdbdb1111111 Good awareness and compassion for Birch. The bark was taken from birch that had died from being ovetaken by a spruce/fir stand (natural sucession). The pits have been used repeatedly over the last twelve years with no water or snake issues. We did have a few toads and spiders, but nothing big enough for a meal.

[@bobinmissouri]

great to see the teaching of basic traing of how to surive if i was 20 yearsyounger what fun i would have at a camp outing 5 stars ***** keep up the great traing of our younging

[@conmcg6917]

how do u keep big animals of it (like a pack of hogs)

[@seaner21889]

how will you find it if it snow

[@primitiveskills]

About an hour and forty minutes...but in native time, "from the time you start to the time you finish". If you have the skills, then your only lost if you have a place to be and a time to get there. Suffering and Rushing in survival means a lack of awareness/skill sets. In a stealthier situation, it may take days, or pre-scouting months in advance in order to set them up along seasonal migratory routes, enemy encampment areas, etc.

[@enjoythewildUSA]

@primitiveskills Thanks for the response. I'm a subscriber now and look forward to learning from you guys.

[@BBP081]

How long did this take to dig?

[@MILOSLAVJMP]

Dobrá legrace. Díky

[@seaner21889]

were u guys at any were near nc

[@ArtisanTony]

Not sure about this. I am sure this would fill with water in a good rain storm. I think I'll keep my shelters above grade :)

[@avair12]

I am familiar with the scout pit and have used one in the past, I am not sure why you peel the logs? seems like a lot of effort for no reason.

[@andrewsheldonreeves]

Instead of going low just go high and hang a jungle hammock 30 feet high in a tree. Most people never look up when walking through the woods. They are too busy watching their footing while carrying heavy gear. It also helps that the bottom of the M 1966 is od green. Lighting a fire on a green wood and mud platform high in a tree useing hardwood will not make smoke and the enemy will not smell it because the smoke will drift over their heads just like how a deer tree stand works.

[@DrowDove3]

A lot of effort but may be worth the effort if done ahead of time. Personally, I prefer evasion. Please don't take this wrong but does that also double as a grave?

[@sessary]

They make it LOOK like a LOT of work, but in a pinch you can cut corners down to the bare bones and get snuggled in within an hour.

[@randyjaco1]

You need to run the tree bark perpendictual to the timber and put a slope on it so water drains off.

[@qlimex8393]

is this a coffin you building ?

[@zachiary56]

@goldenscales I understand that, but my point is that you can build another shelter that is much easier and requires less energy to build. If you try to build this in a survival situation you will use more energy and time than required. If you build a more simple shelter you can use that time and energy that you would've spent building this you could use doing other important things such as hunting for food, building a fire, etc.

[@primitiveskills]

@yatzy75 You have a great start as an avid outdoorsman, evidenced by your appreciation of the amount of energy invested in making these amzingly efficient shelters. Now, picture your skills (or any ones) evolving so that their shelter is constructed well enough to trap radiant body heat & need no fire, whose knowledge of plants, tracking, traps, snares, lithic technology, field meteorology, animal behavior, ecology, primitive skills makes entering the woods & thriving easy. Thats our school.

[@enjoythewildUSA]

That looks like a lot of labor for a lot of guys. If it is to be a practical shelter, one man should build it.

[@rigsby556]

you dig the drainage ditch around the hole in the ground. surface water wil run into it before running into the hole.

[@primitiveskills]

@actonbath I've lived in these on and off over the last twenty three years, and a few of our instructors more so. While your assesment seems steeped in good theory, I would love to hear of your direct experience. WSe haven't had any of the issues you reference. I DO love the reference to Red Dawn, by the way, one of the few movies pivotal to our childhood persuits of survival, invisibility, etc.

[@manawyddanivomagus1096]

You left out a lot of important details like how you gathered the timber that you used in the beginning, and how you made the grass mats

[@primitiveskills]

@chanonee You can gain the experience and awareness necessary by actually building ad living in one during a rain. After that, you will realize that the reason it works is based in the sae principles that keep most well built basements free of water. Come on out for a scout class, the skills are fun to learn and you'll have a better understanding of the skills!

[@whitedevilrandy]

Actually a scout pit or spyder hole i very easy to build fire ready,a little longer deeper with a slight slant dig a 10X10 in. Spot at your head into dirt line with gravel move sod above it put small wood in pit enuff for the night and keep fire small,you can lay on matt feed fire and cook. draft will take smoke right out,you have light and heat. It does make it easier to find if your hiding but normal use it makes this shelter hard to beat and you could use an alcohol stove or ocandle lantern

[@Rick1dat]

So people pay to come and do this ?? If so how much I live here in maine.

[@primitiveskills]

+Rick AB. Yes! We get Instructors from the Navy coming here as well as first timers from Quebec. We've trained participants who later went on to shows like Naked and Afraid as well as advised on Episodes of Dual Survivor. Our weekend course is $210.00 and our Five Day is $610.00. Hope this helps! We've been sharing skills in northern Augusta since 1992.

[@Barskor1]

The point is a place to hide with relative comfort is it perfect no but sitting out in the open in a big brush shelter when you need to be hiding certainly is worse. You can add gravel filled and camouflaged trenches to channel water around the pit. You can add a raised bed to the floor so you can take in a few inches of water and remain warm n dry. Open your mind before your mouth.

[@rigsby556]

place on a rise with adequate drainage on sides and cut a small ditch around the shelter to be drained towards a lwo lying area. thinking outside the box is the first step.

[@goldenscales]

@zachiary56 Yes, you got a valid point. I watch a lot of Dave Canterbury's vids, and try to learn from him. So a spider shelter, or a lean-to would certainly be much easier, especially if you had to move a lot.

[@gregry111]

I guess it could be very comfortable if it were big enough and waterprjoof. Of course if you stayed there for any length of time you'd need a light (battery power?) and something to sit on (you wouldn't want to have to lie down all the time) How could all this be achieved?

[@primitiveskills]

Happens ALL the time. Hard part is figuring out who's gonna be big spoon and who's gonna be little spoon. Deer are easily swayed, but some bear can be pushy.

[@primitiveskills]

@joec123able Survival is only the first four days of transition. After that, it's living with the landscape and you have all the time, shelter, water, fire, food in the world. "Terrible" is the vocab of a defeatest. Stealthy, invisible, well placed, Listening/Observation Post, those are the words of a ferral and fully awake mind and body living undetected amongst the many and not "surviving" but flourishing.

[@Thewatcher19190]

what about rain not good planning

[@primitiveskills]

No leaks, four years and counting.

[@ThatRat12V]

Great video! I subscribed!

[@primitiveskills]

@equallywrong All three scout shelters made it through Tropical Storm Irene without a drop in their interiors. Armchair survialist often make the assumption until they build and live in a few of them over the course of a few decades. You're forgiven.

[@primitiveskills]

I agree from the perspective of a modern person cast into the "wild", it would be too much effort expended. Most modern folks would be reduced to being dehydrated & exhausted after less then a week in full survival. The scout operates at a different level of survival skill sets. It takes decades of commitiment to all of the disciplines, wild edibles, medicinals, tracking, counter tracking, awreness, traps, snares, etc. & from the cultural context of a hunter-gatherer. Now add modern gear...

[@darcythurlow2544]

basic is ok....can fix it to make it even better and safer...i would work from the bottom up....get the end side done first then doing the roof last...but making it rain and snow proof .....

[@taylorpelletier396]

This is awesome i live in Bangor

[@primitiveskills]

Come visit the school sometime! We are located in Augusta...

[@sessary]

There's not much to see inside - just four walls of dirt, sometimes shored up with short planks or poles. One person I knew build a full-size shelter completely paneled with cedar planks. Great idea for bug control as cedars repel bugs

[@primitiveskills]

@actonbath No scorpions in Maine, and no venomous snakes either, so basically, it would be like breakfast in bed.

[@IntoTheWildOregon]

That is an interesting idea. However, if I'm in a pinch, I'm going lean-to: less energy to construct. My concern with the design is that is REALLY leaves a scar on the landscape.

[@hoosierarcher]

Only problems I can foresee are first cold air sinks so having your shelter floor lower than the ground level you'll make a cold well. Second water will run off into this shelter.

[@T3hJones]

Nice one. I guess snake etc. love that pit to :P

[@yatzy75]

@primitiveskills So it is not a survival shelter, but a hideout for special forces and apaches? Extreme amounts of energy goes in to building a shelter that is very small, has no room for a fireplace or drying clothes and probably fills with water as it is below the ground. The trenches i ww1 gave all the soldiers problems with the feet due to being constantly wet on them. I am an active outdoors person and spend many nights in the woods in all kind of weather.