Cult-Like Narcissistic Systems

We commonly associate cults with religious systems of dominance and control. But Dr. Les Carter describes how many other social structures can share the same traits of authoritarianism and exclusiveness. He identifies the primary qualities of cult-like systems and addresses ways to break free. Being fit into a narcissist's tightly defined social structure is no way for anyone to live.
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Dr. Les Carter is a best selling author and therapist who has semi-retired to Waco, Tx. In the past 40+ years he has conducted more than 65,000 counseling sessions and many workshops and seminars. He specializes in anger management and narcissistic personality disorder.
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[@daphventurer7475]

It is ok to be hated and to be an outcast or a loner if it means protecting yourself from these cult-like demented systems.

[@digitalmarketingadvertisingtip]

❤️❤️❤️💯💯💯🙏

[@taraarrington2285]

Yes no Faustian bargain for me

[@targetedtyranny4661]

They use lots of people coming against you as proof your a bad person, yet if these people doing this were good they wouldn't be doing this in the first place, but I do believe decent people can get sucked into this group think situation

[@nicselectronics81]

Much rather be hated which I can ignore than be an all consuming hater.

[@targetedtyranny4661]

@@nicselectronics81 Good point,I wouldn't want to live like that,always competitive,always worried about someone else being better,that would be a miserable experience

[@goldilocks3593]

The most cult-like system I have ever been involved in was a public school district. It can happen anywhere when the wrong leadership becomes entrenched.

[@richardwalker1405]

I too had a Narc that was a principal in the school district. I retired. Free at last.

[@goldilocks3593]

@@richardwalker1405 Congrats! Yes my principal was a real charmer: stealing from the school for disadvantaged kids to the tune of a quarter million dollars. I was also extremely suspicious of his “counseling” activities with wayward young women but that was something I could never prove. I became the whistleblower who got arranged out of my job and although he did get fired five years later, an excruciating amount of damage was done in the meantime. Many great teachers out there but unfortunately strong ethical leadership is very hard to find.

[@Mr0rris0]

Maybe its a pareto prices law peter principal/dunning kruger mass clumping mimetic desire thing. Such becomes a currency of a realm and these qualities essences sort of converge paperclip maximizer style then infinitely regress into this fractal microcosm that is also represented in the macro as above so below style.

[@Mr0rris0]

We may need to examine how exactly the tyler perry show works

[@BrickbyBrick4U]

@@goldilocks3593 I just want to say, “Thank you”, for being a whistleblower. It’s a tough spot to fall into and many people choose to look the other way rather than face consequences from it, as you mentioned.

[@lane6216]

I was raised in an actual cult, then accidentally married into a family cult system. My goodness I wish I had understood what I was getting into. I know now why I did what I did, and I’ve grown tremendously. Thanks for spreading the word on how many ways these narcissists can create their own little clubs.

[@obscurum6]

One of those "clubs", cults, is called the World!

[@peterlopes1989]

LMAs0ff you hit the tail right on the donkey

[@christinalw19]

Well, we know how we are raised! It takes a while to figure it out. I wish you well, and God’s Blessings for your autonomy. 😘🙏🏼❤️

[@The.Indian.Goddess]

So am i

[@tanit7741]

Yup

[@PassionateFlower]

No need to be afraid to lose people who are not afraid to lose you✌️😘🌟Just keep on shining like the beautiful sparkly diamond that you are💎

[@SteeleMagnolia]

But the narcissist IS AFRAID to lose, because that loss has the knowledge that can expose them for what they are. The very threat of truth is groundshaking for the narc, and the vengeance that they will cast upon a deserter is life altering.

[@joshuaanzalone2060]

Once your awakened to the matrix, it's sad because you are shunned because your different and have morals and don't believe in breaking others down. You don't want to not be able to be yourself. I'm glad I'm not welcome. I'm not lonely at all and being alone means I don't have to be around gossiping or fake people.

[@user-tn8wg1qe2n]

✔️

[@ijustrealllylikecats]

I have a narcissistic mother and that whole side of the family is very cult like with my mother as the leader. I've always referred to them as "the cult" not really knowing what else to call them, and I never knew that it's an actual thing with narcissists to have the family be cult like. I was shunned by the family years ago after my mother ran a bizarre smear campaign that nobody questioned at all- which hurt so much but actually improved my life a lot once I was away from them.

[@melissahoffman9433]

🙏🏼 you must be my sister! 😉 it does get better with distance and newfound boundaries ❤️💪🏼❤️

[@christar9527]

I feel for you. My Narcissistic Personality Disorderd mother did a big smear campaign against me around our city and the family believed her BS. My father was the cult leader at least originally. I could tell that I was in a cult, not a family, after I was discarded by them. So glad it happened though and I’m free!

[@lovemymini8418]

You must be my sister too! Glad to be free!

[@michellebergeaux2290]

You are not alone…. My narcissistic mother has obliterated two of their three children’s families. Of her children the only one she could “stand” was her son, not even his wife…. As he was the only one that kept her exact line. He (brother) has even said he moved away to create a physical boundary because she was trying to micro manage his daily life as well. It’s tough… very hard. I have gone no contact with my mother and so has my sister. It’s very very sad.

[@ladennayoung2939]

Yeah it can be a blessing in disguise getting away from these type of people. This include toxic and dysfunctional family members. I pray your strength in the Lord. I know it's tough, and it wasn't a easy decision for you to make. But you did the right thing. Hang in there. Better Days are coming for you in Jesus name.

[@nagammahill7886]

You just described the family I was raised in. I was the independent thinker.

[@shenika1979]

This is exactly me. Independent thinker

[@annking8633]

I got fired from a cult-like workplace. Worked there for 3.5 years. Worst experience of my life. Totally shunned during my tenure. Getting fired was the best thing that has ever happened to me, second to Dr. C of course!! He saved me.

[@SurvivingNarcissism]

It's like you can breathe freely again. And thanks for the kind compliment, too. Dr. C

[@MJ-qb5ph]

You say tenure. Was this a university?

[@annking8633]

@@MJ-qb5ph no, it wasn't a University. It was a private company. I use tenure loosely...

[@MJ-qb5ph]

@@annking8633 Thank you and good luck

[@taraarrington2285]

Yes who wants to live under the thumb of people who don't respect or understand you.

[@Morganistas]

Thank you for addressing this! We decided to leave a cultic church (and then the narc discarded us in grand, rageful fashion, of course). The hardest part after recovery is wanting to rescue the other people still stuck that you care about and watching them succumb to cult mind control time and time again.

[@themysticalexperiencer8141]

Reminds me of John MacArthur and his mind control over his congregation. His Master's Seminary and Master's University are under accreditation probation due to the climate of bullying and nepotism as well. He is an absolute cult leader.

[@bloodymary3008]

they're weak. You can only do so much, then you have to let people go

[@SweetiePieTweety]

It is difficult to watch those who are still under the influence once your eyes are opened. But as a cult member defense attorney once said... “You can’t tell a cult member they are in a cult”. It just doesn’t work.

[@christinalw19]

Michelle, how did you come into the world? You came in alone with God. That is all that matters, your personal relationship with Him. The other stuff is hubris. Blessings to you. 🙏🏼🕊❤️

[@sparklecanada0112]

@@SweetiePieTweety I know from Personal Experience, having been in a Religious Cult and am still married to a Staunch Religious Cult member; You can tell them it's a Cult or even offer to provide proof it is a Cult ; But, Constant Indoctrination by that Religious Cult and Cognative Dissonence on the Member's part,will prevent the Cult Member from seeing Reality from Fantasy or be open to reasoning or debate. They are the only one that can choose for themselves to Investigate or Leave. It's out of Anyone Else's control or desire. It took 12 yrs and a Life-Changing Circumstance to wake me up to Reality. Other people may need an undisputable circumstance as well or they might never get one. Some people never wake up or they die still as a Cult member. Sad but true.

[@mariaawake4502]

Narcissistic cults-No thank you, I prefer solitude and even temporary loneliness over that kind of social engagement.

[@cindyann4474]

Me too ✌️🦋❤️🙏

[@grannysweet]

true, true avoid at all costs. get a restraining order if necessary.

[@spreadthelove77]

Same, Maria! 👍🏼😀

[@suzyhomeacre]

Heck yeah!! I like my solitude better as well. 🦋

[@SunshineSuperstar]

Right on!

[@toveirenestrand3547]

At <a href="#" class="seekto" data-time="647">10:47</a>: No human system or no authoritarian individual has the right to micromanage your life, variety, individual taste, unique ideas, social preferences, all of that is built into the fabric of human nature. We are meant to be unique and distinct. ... You deserve a mindset that says "I'm free and I want to live inside a position of PEACE". ~ Les Carter

[@Notme811_you]

Beautiful

[@joshuaanzalone2060]

Yes tove Irene I'm not going to change who I am for anyone. I'll continue to be genuine, authentic,and myself. I'm not dimming my light.

[@pyarkaaloo]

💯💯💯💯

[@Consiouschoices]

Amen

[@cynthiateramura3307]

"I'm not dimming my light." ~joshua⭐

[@grantaugustyniak6667]

Live at least 30-40 minutes away from this type of world. Limit your family gatherings & never loose your true self & be free ! Stick to your boundaries. It works !

[@Jarvis-MkII]

Timely, and a real "tonic" for those of us who see the red flags all around us but are made to feel that we are the evil ones.

[@aliceroberts1980]

Yep we’re the crazy ones!

[@SunshineSuperstar]

@@aliceroberts1980 Yeah! It's fucking laughable!

[@sweetielady7710]

OMG this sounds so much like my experience in high school marching band. The teacher was a completely abusive narcissist and would humiliate and verbally (and sometimes physically) attack a student over playing a wrong note or something else stupid like that. A lot of the other band members were like his flying monkeys who worshipped him and insulted any one of us who spoke out against this teacher, calling us lazy, unmotivated or overly sensitive. Even the school authorities did that as well, or they'd turn a blind eye to it. It was so strange, and honestly, extremely traumatizing. Great video!

[@tanit7741]

I woulda quit

[@sweetielady7710]

@@tanit7741 I did lol. I was forced to do it for one semester and I quit as soon as I could lol

[@taraarrington2285]

I had a teacher like this too. She would criticize my singing because I didn't sing like her.

[@naomizacharias8767]

a year and a half ago my husband and i left a cult-like church system. Best decision we have ever made.

[@methodicalmysticbutterflyi2669]

I can't wait for this one, Dr. C! I left the churches when the hypocrites refused to do the right thing that they were preaching.

[@SurvivingNarcissism]

Say one thing, do another. Too common. Dr. C

[@verabolton]

Narcissists LOVE churches and use religion to their own advantage. God be merciful to the church where they grab power. However, it doesn't mean that the idea of church or religion is bad :)

[@methodicalmysticbutterflyi2669]

@@SurvivingNarcissism yes, Dr. C. that is correct. It's a terrible testament to what lies beneath. I still trust the LORD, just not the people who claim to love HIM, but hurt others who are already hurting.

[@methodicalmysticbutterflyi2669]

@@robertruge2916, unfortunately. It breaks my heart.

[@michellefarris3961]

Some psychology group, magazine, whatever rated historical leaders and determined that Jesus was a narcissist. He couldn't be more opposite; guess mental health professionals can be cultic also.

[@bluemoon2482]

Dr Carter, thank you for reminding some of us that we should never allow anyone, to control us. It is, however, easier said than done, as predators are expert manipulators, who know exactly how to handle their chosen victim(s).

[@bjgk1007]

Totally agree with you

[@signsfrombeyond4863]

Yesterday you happened to comment on a full blue moon :)

[@bluemoon2482]

@@signsfrombeyond4863 I was aware that a blue moon was coming but thanks for Leong me know. 👍

[@bluemoon2482]

@@signsfrombeyond4863 * ..for letting me know

[@The.Indian.Goddess]

I agree its so difficult if everyone surrounding you is part of it

[@christineribone9351]

Yes Dr. C, it's a deep deep pathology. The DSM-5 should have a long diagnosis on these beasts. They laugh at your boundaries, no matter how firm you are.

[@christineribone9351]

@Pedro Ivan Sanchez pedro I like the way you express yourself. They do seem to pop up out of the dark and take over a whole community. In Steven King's movie "The Perfect Storm" that very same thing happened. The villain caused havoc in a small town and made the people do outrageous things they didn't want to do. The whole town went crazy mad

[@annemccarron2281]

The DSM is sorely deficoent. It is basically useless when it comes to NPD and it doesn't even discuss narcisism.

[@oazazdravlja5]

I strongly agree with you,It is pathology,it is diagnosis and have to be far from human !!!

[@christineribone9351]

@@annemccarron2281 Anne Its missing because most of the men that pulled together that book are Narcoholics!

[@TheMaryam1891]

You may not want politics here, but wannabe tyrants and dictators have taken over many of our government entities.

[@colindunne674]

I'm free now 5 years after a narc marriage and her cult family, also hiding childhood abuse....sadly my 3 daughters are still blind...it's a living nightmare trying to empower them.

[@bloodymary3008]

Yeah its unbelievable all the things they get away with

[@cindyann4474]

I believe you 🙏🙏🙏

[@lindarosebuchanan1650]

This channel is so healing. My family completely turned my adult son against me. I'm connecting the dots and this has been going on for a long time. Thank you Dr. Carter and I appreciate the comments.

[@educocult]

OMG! He's going there! Can't wait!

[@Elizabeth-yg2mg]

My narc mother has developed her own little cult. Everyone has to share her political beliefs; she is right and no one may differ from her. She doesn't like the color blue so you aren't supposed to wear that color or use it in your house; she disapproves of dresses because she thinks they're antifeminist. It's nuts that so many people let her lead them around by the nose. I live a long ways away.

[@The.Indian.Goddess]

Sounds like my mom she hates red ...oh well

[@Pushing_Pixels]

She doesn't like blue so you can't use it in your house? Not her house, yours? That's so controlling.

[@Elizabeth-yg2mg]

@Fancypants McVomitshirt She would scowl if I wore blue and let me know she didn't like that color. I moved 3000 miles away years ago so she never saw my house. She was an awful, very sick person who died a couple of years ago thank goodness!

[@Polina-ji4fe]

Yikes

[@Polina-ji4fe]

I've notices there are some very narc women in radfem circles who call other people narcs. They go beyond ideology or believes about gender, for example, and use other people (for example, trans or gen z or doesn't even matter who) as scapegoats. For some it's more about hatred and scapegoating, insults etc than about everything else. I actually have similar views as them on gender etc, but some of them have such an attitude that is so off.

[@margochanning6868]

Using the word, "freedom" has become a dirty word in our mass media driven popular culture. "Independent thought" is another dirty term. If anything has become systemic and institutionalized, it's a hive mind, lockstep mentality that is not to be questioned or defied.

[@maxineboxer9714]

It’s hard to see people you love become total believers, then expect you to join them. You have to withdraw to save yourself. Hard when so many people are against you. Especially when the panic is unrelenting, lies and more lies. You have to keep a clear head.

[@christinalw19]

Dr. Carter, thank you for Always confirming that my autonomy is healthy. I won’t change, even if it means I am completely alone. 🙏🏼❤️

[@lovemymini8418]

Me too! 🙌🏼

[@maxineboxer9714]

My thoughts too.

[@Elizabeth-yg2mg]

Nature abhors a vacuum--someone and something more suitable will eventually turn up if you stick to your guns!

[@James-re4pb]

Me too

[@sage9836]

Reading an amazing book on cults by Steve Hassan was how I started getting the groundwork knowledge about natcissism because I kept seeing the big picture of how the cult dynamic was the same in other systems. Its called Combatting Cult Mind Control.

[@Morganistas]

Excellent resource!

[@sage9836]

@@Morganistas Yeah. I recommend it often.

[@Morganistas]

@@sage9836 It reveals that any system can become cultic due to toxic leadership. I sought out Hassan's book after dealing with a Baptist church cult. Everyone ought to know this stuff because you'll eventually run into a narcissistic cultic group somewhere.

[@bloodymary3008]

Ohh yeah that really is an excellent book 😃👌

[@morganackerly721]

Great book

[@lindabest3184]

Thank you Dr Les Carter for addressing this Topic.I've experienced this reality in society in many areas, especially in Churches.Many of these ppl claim to be Godly, but the Spirit of God they do not have.Religion teaches a list of do's and don'ts,I joined a Church yrs ago when I was first redeemed they taught that wearing pants or jewelry or make-up was sin, the helped me to develop a mindset that I was better than others who did, they turned me into a bigot, thank God that he delivered me from being ensnared from the devil's bondages.

[@bmoremom8458]

We or bodies are the temple of God and we are supposed to groom and look dignified. Everything in excess is bad for us (I.e., too much makeup, immodest clothes, etc.).

[@m.s.biteth1164]

Are you part of a cult that drinks blood and eats flesh and has telepathy with a murderous psychopath named Adoni who loves foreskins and the smell of burning animal flesh?

[@Pushing_Pixels]

@@bmoremom8458 That's a lie. You yourself are trapped inside one of the narcissistic cults the video is talking about. You are participating in a system of abuse. You should try to escape, but if you can't do that at least stop projecting that mind-control onto others.

[@kadootje77]

Went no contact with narcy cult- like family, and after 43 years also left the religious org that has turned into a cult , it is extremely hard, but also very liberating, I found out my church turned cult by watching and listening to videos about narcissism to help and heal myself, this video is very validating and dignifying, Many Thanks!!

[@lynnemarylou7611]

I don't know why I didn't see it before but I've just realised that my church that I've been going to is Cult like.... thank you for this video

[@jamesrutter4100]

The problem is way bigger than people realise. Predators have been forming church/ cult groups under America's "freedom of religion" laws. For personal gain and predatory purposes, they have been using these religious "freedoms" to enrich themselves as well as to form militias and hate groups to further thier agendas

[@Pushing_Pixels]

It happens to a lot of churches. Even whole denominations can be cults.

[@BrickbyBrick4U]

“It’s a very sick system”- Well said. Very true. I left one of these systems four months ago. Still a lot of hurt remains, but I know leaving was a necessary move for freedom.

[@js6546]

Before I had any idea that my husband was a covert narcissist, I used to say to him that his family was like a cult. When his mother, a narcissist, divorced her husband, she never mentioned him again. He was ‘dead’ to her, and the teenage children were expected to follow suit. As the cult leader, no questions were to be asked, just blind allegiance. When I produced three grandchildren, they were seen as her progeny, not mine, just as children in a cult become the property of the cult leaders. My husband started to visit her without me. The children were treated as deities, glorified as somehow better than other children because they were part of this cult like family. I was triangulated and relegated to the role of ‘the downstairs help’, seen occasionally but not heard. I went grey rock and then no contact before I knew what these were. No contact with her worked, but I was still married to a covert narcissist. I largely stopped propping up his life and he relied more on the validation from his mother. His enmeshment with her became more obvious, just as members of a cult become enmeshed and lose their own identity. Early promises of a great life together were lies that, just like a cult, lured me into an abusive marriage. The closeness was replaced by controlling behaviour, the love by hate. I tried for years to rescue him, just as families try to deprogram their loved ones who are trapped in cults. It was only when I learnt about npd from Dr C that I became aware of the pathology I was dealing with. I am now on Team Healthy and looking forward to a new way of life. Thank you Dr C! Your expert knowledge has freed me from a cult that kept me trapped for nearly 30 years. I knew something was wrong but, like all cults, coercive control keeps us trapped. To know that I am an okay person is liberating and freeing.

[@ggg5110]

From my experience, this describes covert human rights abusers/organizations/associations/clubs and the people who are compensated to do their dirty work. A narcs dream come true.

[@cindyann4474]

@God IS Love GOD FORBID 👉 THEY IS STUPID 🙏🙏🙏

[@pyarkaaloo]

💯💯💯💯

[@halphantom2274]

I think, that reminds me of something. Becoming a vegetarian slowly was a weird struggle in my family. It was as if I had fallen off the right believe. Everytime I was invited to a family dinner I found meat on my plate again. Wasn't this open authoritarian way, but this subtle "You must be crazy not eating meat. Let us guide you back to the right path."-treatment. As if I had lost my marbles. Very elitist. No empathy for another person's boundaries at all. I never, not once tried to convince another person to quit eating meat. I was completely passive about this and saw this just as a personal choice. That made the strong reaction appear even more weird. It was as if some felt threatened of me just having an individual point of view.

[@guylamullins3602]

Try finding out you have food intolerances. This entire community is obsessed with wheat products. Gluten and fructose both cause me problems. Yes occasionally I want a hamburger and coke but I pay for it afterwards. Here you get the “you’re a weirdo” comments. I don’t tell anyone anything anymore.

[@tmfpunk]

This!!!!!

[@lynnemarylou7611]

Yeah totally understand I get that a lot for not eating meat... Strangest thing is the people that attacked me the most are the ones in the church the pastors wife even came over to me and started praying with me against my will, by laying on of hands so that I could eat meat... I mean how ridiculous.

[@nehla47]

American people also behave in a similar attitude around people who dont drink alcohol out of choice. So weird.

[@The.Indian.Goddess]

Same here ...about the vegan thing ...cant even respect my right to eat proper food ..they keep saying i lack protein

[@drat9957]

I married a narc, who was from a male dominated culture that reinforced and condoned his narcissistic traits and was cult-like. Early on, I asked what I was to do when I knew what I was being told was wrong. The response was "do it anyway". In order to gain my freedom, I had to leave both narc and the extended family I had come to love. As hard as it was, it was worth it.

[@EMO_alpha]

I am gonna take a shot in the dark. You are actually the narc. Lol

[@methodicalmayhem5881]

Hello Dr. Carter, the community appreciates all the informative and educational content that you and your team thoughtfully create, edit, and upload every week. We recognize and appreciate the importance of your work. I would love to get the opportunity to meet you one day. God bless you sir. Have a great day!

[@methodicalmysticbutterflyi2669]

I am ever grateful for Dr. Carter. He's helping me transition into the person I was always meant to be. 👑😇🙌💪☝

[@bjgk1007]

You hit the Nail on the head with this video! I left the "cult" and now I'm being shunned 😞 Freedom!

[@karinberonius8799]

Woot Woot!👏👏👏

[@sparklecanada0112]

🤝💖🌹Barbara J Gordon-Klavons.

[@pamelatoombs4150]

😊🕊😉 FREEDOM!! Embrace the shunning, makes it easier to get past their abuse. No contact works. That's the unseen gift of shunning, it's all a matter of perspective.

[@sandrab.5065]

The reality is “cult-like” systems exists in all areas of life : health insurance, hospitals, family, clubs, political parties, military, governments, police, schools, workplace, social media, etc. You get served overtly or blatantly that it is either “ their way or the highway” attitude.

[@daphventurer7475]

Even in neighbourhoods !! You can find people crazy enough to try and control you and your home just because you happen to live close to them. !!!

[@SurvivingNarcissism]

All you have to do is show up and they go into action. Dr. C

[@Jenifer_G]

I experienced this at the Doctors I used to attend. It was the reception area run by 2 women, very controllling and the more friendly receptionists one could see were under the thumb. Felt the oppression. One of the rude loud mouth receptionist abused myself when I chose another person over her to attend to me. It evenuated in a big problem as the Dictors refused to address the issue and I said if I was abused again I would seek police help. The Doctors etc didnt like it and said they cant service me, but I had already left the practice. But I would not crawl to the so called bosses at the frint desk.

[@peterlopes1989]

@@daphventurer7475 That's horrible?

[@daphventurer7475]

@@peterlopes1989 Yes. It is horrible. A home is someone's personal space.

[@TimErwin]

So true. I grew up in a Christian family headed by my narcissist mother. Everything the church said had to be followed. You doing anything even remotely different than the church meant you were going to hell. For instance, our church was old-fashioned and didn't believe in streaming services over the internet, therefore my mother would claim that any churches that did were evil and that new technology was sinful. For most of my life, I was afraid to even go to other people's churches or discuss religion with people outside my family. The "teachings" from my family made me afraid that any venturing out would have me burning in hell. I don't blame God or our church for cult-like thinking. God believes in free will and freedom. The blame goes to the narcissists who use religion as another tool for manipulation and arrogance to make themselves feel superior.

[@lovemymini8418]

This is my dad. I find comfort knowing I’m not alone. I don’t have any kind of relationship with any one in my immediate family now or those in that church. We are estranged from our oldest daughter because God told my dad to favor her, like God favored John. My other children blame God, because of their example. They have destroyed it all.

[@TimErwin]

@@lovemymini8418 ​Thank you. So sorry to hear about your daughter. I hate when narcissits get ahold of the bible. "God told me" becomes their goto explanation for whatever abuse or mistreatment they do. Yes, the damage they do in God's name is horrible. I pray your children one day see who God really is.

[@lovemymini8418]

@@TimErwin Thank you. 🙏

[@SurvivingNarcissism]

Tim, what you say it so true. Dr. C

[@cpoeticjustice5724]

Wow....best description I have ever heard".....

[@natashatomlinson4548]

The United Methodist Church is a perfect example of this. It is a covert narcissistic system. . It’s why I left as a pastor fifteen years ago . And even then I needed professional help to see what really was going on and get the courage to leave . The whole s-show revolves around bishops who have unregulated control . Every bishop I’ve ever served under would step all over his mother to get where they are if they needed to. From a narcissist’s perspective , being a UMC bishop comes with premium-grade narcissistic supply , so they play all the games to get there . If you are UMC , run . You’ll never regret the decision .

[@cgrassen]

Wonder if he'll mention what Erich Fromm wrote about with 'group narcissism neurosis', aka totalitarian psychosis.

[@SurvivingNarcissism]

Didn't mention Fromm in this one, but he is a major influence. Dr. C

[@victoriasavage]

Thank you!! I’m working in a Cult-like office right now. It’s HORRIBLE! Good to know I’m not making things up. 🙏🏼🙏🏼

[@harleyquinn5774]

Public school system comes to mind. Note: it’s not education that’s Narcissistic, it’s having a Malignant Covert Narc teacher who uses Narcissistic abuse tactics for classroom management by ignoring instigators of bullying and punish the bully victims for “making noise,” “causing a commotion,” and “being an attention seeker.” As a regular witness to these classroom management tactics, what I saw the bullying victim exhibit was the trauma response, their legal right of denial of consent, and legal right of physical self defense.

[@karolinagren5846]

I'm on team Guss. I prefer animals over humans, because there are so many narcs around.

[@Lyrielonwind]

You described my family.

[@suzyhomeacre]

If this doesn’t describe the division in America & the cult like, narcissistic system that’s happening, idk what does.

[@Pushing_Pixels]

Yep. There's a few large scale cults driving wedges into society. Religious, political, conspiratorial...

[@nancymurphy6483]

My exe’s mother was the reigning narcissist in the family. Fortunately, we lived about 3 hours away-not far enough, but still a buffer. One weekend we were visiting, and she started talking about the Vietnam War. She said if her son had been drafted she would have sent him to Canada, as it was only the poor, uneducated, (and a particular ethnic group) who fought and died. Normally, I was able to keep quiet, but that time I spoke up. My first husband (a college graduate and CPA) had been drafted, and he became an officer, although he didn’t go overseas. A high school friend had graduated from West Point, and died in Vietnam, as did others I knew. I said the people who served were not throwaways, and I resented her saying that. The rest of the family sat in stunned silence.After that she started calling her son to complain about me on a regular basis and she sent articles from others who agreed with her position. Even my husband (also very narcissistic) said, “I wish she wouldn’t do that.” She couldn’t let it go. She had to prove she was right. When my husband’s first ex criticized her for not watching their 3 year old (the neighbors told her she was running in the street) she threw herself on the ground and began kicking and screaming. Her husband stood by, wringing his hands, saying “this is really bad, this is really bad.” For a year after that they were not allowed to visit her house. They still drove down, but stayed with her daughter. I’m sure it was a welcome respite. What a group! And I was expected to join the cult.

[@SurvivingNarcissism]

Good for you that you spoke up. And if they are mad b/c you won't join the cult, oh well. Dr. C

[@jamesrutter4100]

I would spit in her face and never speak to her again and let EVERYBODY know why. AND YOU SHOULD TOO. WHY LOWER YOURSELF TO HER LEVEL. LEAVE THEM TO WALLOW IN THE MUD

[@cassiebrown9786]

I went through this with my narcissistic sister. She has decided to turn family away from me. I told a brother you have drunk the Kool-Aid. I've seen other people face the same. Evil.

[@stephcats20]

Dr. C., thank you ! In this video you describe perfectly the community in which I spent 25 years as a cloistered nun, 25 years of trying to figure out what was wrong with how we operated. I finally had to leave because, having been marginalized, invalidated, and ostracized for so long, I was suffocating and finally gave up on the hope that it would ever get any better. That was 23 years ago. By the way, that community eventually collapsed and had to merge with another one.

[@natashatomlinson4548]

Which is another reason I left my U Methodist church as a pastor fifteen years ago - I knew they were destined for failure in the near future . They recently split up but it’s not because of LGBTQ issues at its heart but because of its narcissistic toxicity .

[@patriciawalker9461]

"Just Passing Thru" Very Very Informative! "The system is truly full of these demons!" Thanks for Sharing👍🏾👍🏾

[@baroquefiddle4790]

Awesome video, thank you Dr. Carter. I'm fully estranged from my family of origin because of exactly what you described & adding in some other abuses too. I've healed my CPTSD, which I believe I've had most of my life & my last session with my therapist, I told him "I feel super free, super empowed & can make whatever choices I need 😍." I feel so exctied as it's like seeing the world for the first time and all the beauty in it without my CPTSD shadowing every experience. I wish us all the same healing. The work took a long time and was very painful and difficult and it's the greatest gift to finally come out the other side 🥰

[@karinberonius8799]

Woohoo! I'm so happy for you!🎉🌼🍀💐

[@baroquefiddle4790]

@@karinberonius8799 awww thank you so much 💓

[@lovemymini8418]

This is me too. I’m glad to have this connection to know I’m not alone. Continued success in your life free from the mess!!

[@baroquefiddle4790]

@@lovemymini8418 that's wonderful, well done!! It takes tremendous courage to look inside, wishing you the best that life has to offer 💚

[@lovemymini8418]

@@baroquefiddle4790 ~~Thank you and same for you! 💕

[@annking8633]

My eyes are opened.

[@SurvivingNarcissism]

Good! Dr. C

[@Gatosani]

It just happened to me. I left a calvinist congregation because I didn't follow the narcissist leader, he was nicer to me until I started to talk about the points I was disagreeing with, then I got isolated and became his/their enemy.

[@ellik1817]

Aaawww.. Gus is so cute..Just soaking in all the information. Thanks Dr.C. 💛✨

[@chinookvalley]

I'm dealing with a narc who abuses his dog. The more people try to get him to be kind, the worse his behavior becomes. It's like he feeds off of it. The poor dog is the victim of his inferiority mentality. He can't get people to do what he wants so he takes it out on the dog. He's the devil and then some. Too many people are like this.

[@SurvivingNarcissism]

You can tell a lot about a person by how they treat animals and small kids. Dr. C

[@karinberonius8799]

Please alert the police, an animal shelter/ rescue organisation or anyone who can help this dog.

[@langlang1287]

Please call animal resue organisation to help the dog.

[@TheQueensWish]

This person enjoys inflicting pain on the good people that challenge him. The dog is his method for attracting a lot of attention his way. This attention then gives him the opportunity to torment those who try to step in. He isn’t fooling anyone. Send LE and animal control to his address. Let a judge treat him like the dog he’s allowed himself to become. Fines, court records, legal troubles, etc are exactly the kind of negative attention he should be going through.

[@girlygal098]

Please liberate the dog and find it another home.

[@l.5832]

I worked in a great clinic, then things went really bad. The head dentist became very controlling. Years later I was talking with a sales rep that serviced the clinic and he told me that dentist had actually joined a cult during those years (he named the cult but it meant nothing to me). He was totally controlled by this cult. I had quit when it got bad. Any controlling entity is bad.

[@kirabarsmith9353]

Great post Dr. C, I find it interesting how narcissism and authoritarianism go hand in hand, especially at this moment in time when totalitarianism is being thrust on the public by "elites"/narcs.

[@DennisMC1974]

A lot of narcissistic cults are in our local churches and spiritual healer Narcissists

[@krissykatportal]

Thanks Doc. I’m going through this exact situation. It’s hard to admit that the people I loved and trusted the most betrayed me and had no intentions of keeping me safe. I can’t leave without being shunned by my entire family and friends. This cult controls our thoughts, our behavior and emotions by manipulation and controlling what information we’re allowed to consume. Thank you for speaking about this.

[@SurvivingNarcissism]

Best wishes to you Krissy. Keep an eye out for this Saturday's video on authoritarian systems. It should resonate. I'm pulling for you.

[@phantomvampyressshadowkiss4690]

This is just what i told my mom about husbands family. I said. No one ever tells his mom shes wrong or is over stepping. Its like a cult.

[@themichaelhartwell]

I was born in one, a religious cult. I didn't see the light until I was already a man. Freedom is the most valuable possession I will prize to the rest of my days. I hope we can all help other empaths to find their freedom from both cults and narcissists, leaving this world in a better state than we found it one step at a time.

[@katebrunne4311]

is this Bane?

[@Marcelube]

Congratulations, Dr Carter. You're a very brave man.

[@chinookvalley]

Jeez. It seems every single facet of life is subject to Narcissist behavior. You'd think people in charge would WANT to see people do their best, and be proud of those who work hard. But whether a preacher, teacher, president, or commander - bad behavior is rewarded. Cruelty and cunning is what wins in our society. Bullies.

[@cindyann4474]

🙏🙏🙏

[@CJ-hz1uj]

If by “wins” you mean destroys everything else, perhaps.

[@digitalmarketingadvertisingtip]

Thank you 🌹💯💯❤️🔥

[@GerryRose777]

@@chinookvalley please don't use 'Jeez' it's a derivative of Jesus and used as an offensive expletive offensive to God and Christians u wdnt use buddha or Mohammed's name why the True God? Thank u x

[@denisesatt7044]

Thank you doctor, I was in a narcissistic relationship for over 3 years . during that time we had some groups of friends that were strongly cult like. I have always been rather "free to be me" and these associations almost changed me. Shame was used freely. I have seen the light and working on my self esteem. Thanks for all your help. This happened in my early 60's . some days are more hopeful than others.

[@s.s.8029]

You just described the family I married into. I rarely thought like the rest of them and eventually they discarded me. One sil is the ring leader and tries to keep everyone tied together. My older teen and younh adult sons see it more clearly and I am thankful they do not spend much time around them. I am grateful they never accepted me.

[@izawaniek2568]

I am free and I want to live in a position of peace.

[@beryllaing6992]

Doctor Carter I was in a “church” that dictated exactly what we were allowed to wear, eat, drink, whether we were allowed pets or not, absolutely everything in our lives was controlled. It was extremely hard to get out, especially the mind set. I always felt condemned. But by the grace of God we finally were given a way of escape. I am so grateful for the freedom that true Christianity gives. But it leaves scars which never really go away.

[@SurvivingNarcissism]

Hopefully you can find that freedom you mentioned and move away from their control mindset. Dr. C

[@jamesdouglas7345]

Your true faith and Christ does heal even takes away psych scars of marc abuse.

[@beryllaing6992]

@@jamesdouglas7345 it has been a painful journey to freedom from condemnation (which is what most cults use to keep people in bondage) but reading the Bible has given me a true picture of who God is - and He is not what cults portray. He is love and compassion and holy.

[@Pushing_Pixels]

Jesus was not about controlling people with threats (of damnation), but a lot of his followers sure seem to be.

[@susansacco7583]

Yes. This is it. I don’t blame them. They were conditioned early in life. Yes, authoritarian. Thank you💕

[@Meeeeowowow]

This is how I was raised. I am no longer in contact with my parents and building my own family of people who accept me.

[@joanfrazier916]

Makes you fear failure as if it is death!

[@donnajay17]

Thank you, I will be watching this video again.🇨🇦

[@izawaniek2568]

Connecting with people who Let you be yourself is critical. Thank you for a great description and analysis of cults, spot on. They forget that we are born to be free. No human system has the power to micro manage your life. It is important to live into the things that make you you to be truly you!

[@lw2099]

this is the exact type of religious family system I grew up in. All description of the feelings traits and behavior are deeply ingrained in me. Thanks.

[@annec100]

Thank you so much for this video! I've been living in this system for years. Unfortunately my husband is a toxic narcissist and the church just made it worse!

[@donnavickery9623]

I am from a Narcisstic family cult and you discribed it perfectly!

[@carolmoger9869]

I always referred to my family upbringing as a cult experience. This is the 1st time I've heard my experience validated. Thank you for this gift!!!

[@jeffreyzeiss1326]

When I said very politely to the narcissist that I know that "we think differently" when discussing the aging process because I accept it and I'm 3 years younger than her and she apparently has a extreme fear of aging she threw at me the closest thing she could find. Nearly foaming at the mouth and unable to control her Temper by the grace of God I was blessed it was only a piece of cardboard. Had it been a fork or a knife she would have thrown it anyway. I read that narcissists have a fear of aging because they associated with losing control.

[@wendychavez5348]

I grew up in a "traditional" and somewhat conservative household, went to a Christian school with fairly strict rules and a definite hierarchy--both family and school were perfect environments for me because I have always been a natural submissive. None of them were as strict or as limiting as you're describing; I have always been permitted to find my comfort point within whatever "rules" I'm living under at the time. It taught me about responsibility and consequences, and when I was connected with narcs (as I have been a few times) I was very uncomfortable because "I" just wasn't an appropriate part of their equation. Huge difference between healthy structure and narcissistic cult atmospheres!

[@surlif]

Dr. Clark is trying to help those in a cult controlled by narcisscist. You seem to have a real need to defend your background and that is ok but this discussion is not about healthy backgrounds.

[@wendychavez5348]

@@surlif, forgive me for not being clear. My background was healthy. I did fall in with narcissists from time to time, though I was raised in such a way that I had the tools to escape situations controlled by narcissists. Love and self-government has surrounded me most of my life, and Dr. C is validating my family and my world.

[@surlif]

Well, I know it must feel really good to know your background was so superior to those who came here for help because the pain they have suffered.

[@wendychavez5348]

@@surlif, I don't want to say I'm superior. Even with my stellar background, I've been used and abused by narcissists. I've also survived, partly because my family and friends wouldn't permit me to be hurt, though if I hadn't chosen to break away, there's nothing they could have done without violating my autonomy. My point is, it was my decision, and once I made it I found the resources necessary to help myself. I try to be optimistic, and wish to show people that they can choose to live away from toxic people. Yes, it's a difficult choice to make, and narcissistic persons are skilled at convincing us that we're alone and helpless, though if we really want to get away, the tools we need can be found. I choose not to dwell on the five years that I trapped myself in the narcissist's jaws, or the times before that which I have deliberately purged from my memory, because I think I have finally learned the lesson the universe was trying to teach me. If my experience can help someone have hope for their situation, it's worth the pain of remembering parts of it. I apologize for not being able to force myself to relive all of it; it doesn't seem necessary or worthwhile to do that without Dr C (or someone of his caliber) standing over me right now.

[@JackieSuz917]

This point is exactly what i believe my adult son is experiencing as he was such a wonderful son, but once he went to collegex he turned into a angry man, especially grad school...this mama has the biggest broken 💔 and would love my loving son back....

[@TheQueensWish]

Thank you Dr. Carter for your insight of how this works.

[@michelepascoe6068]

The enablers of the vulnerable, covert narcissist don't realise it it because they're so busy "protecting" and "helping" the "poor" narc. I think it would be more obvious if they were raising their voice and throwing their weight around visibly instead of surreptitiously.

[@phoenixrising1221]

control is everywhere, the only way to deal with it is inner freedom which will help to navigate through toxic environments & people once we navigate our own shadow

[@lilc5353]

You just blew my mind and I have been studying narcissism for over 10 years! ❤

[@SurvivingNarcissism]

There is always a nuance tucked in there...which is why you and I both can consider ourselves lifelong learners!

[@unconversantcallowincandes1540]

Thank you for going over this topic and the known associations for these matters that go unnoticed. Tha k you Dr C and Miss Laura!! I'm gonna give up the chat rooms, I HATE being left hanging, it's a trigger I'm not passed and I understand listening, but that is different. Walking in a room full of talk and then everyone goes silent, is a bad trigger. So I sincerely appreciate your help and look forward to seeing you guys again. Thanks 🙏

[@brettneuberger6466]

Thank you for all the work you do to bring awareness to what’s certainly a dilemma of our time.

[@makesnodifference]

My narc forced us to go to the IFB church. He knew exactly where to find the best nests of flying monkeys, fellow narcs, and other enablers. They were defeated by me simply quitting going. LOL

[@t.l.7733]

Yes. My Covert/Malignant GM, slowly, methodically, triangulating his boss as well as HR, blocking access for his employees to reach out for help, thus, turning the office into a snake pit of his breeding ground of endless "supply." It reminds me of that chilling scene in Silence of the Lamb where Buffalo Bill kept his victim in the basement.

[@Sara87521]

I grew up in a church movement called Every Nation Ministries (a branch off of the disgraced Maranatha movement in the 1970’s) and it very much fit this description. Now as I get older, I worry that I am still lured in by groups with very black/white thinking. The last thing I want to do is become like the authoritarian people I used to have to submit to, but it’s almost like a knee-jerk reaction, just in opposite ways! “You either think like me on social/political issues, or we can’t be friends”, especially in these last two years it’s been increasingly difficult not to draw really hard lines between myself and others.

[@cymbolichuman433]

Read the Bible. If you can't think of where to start, read the whole Chapter of Matthew. Genesis is good, but Matthew is the Christian handbook for beginners. Then you can think for yourself.

[@SurvivingNarcissism]

It's like you having to learn a new language, but the old language is still in your head too. Dr. C

[@paulzeigler1075]

Don't be too hard on yourself; I've had similar experiences off an on through out my life and I can tell in hindsight that I have a tendency to get suckered into such groups. Another thing I've noticed though is my internal BS Gauge is more sensitive than it was when it first started in my younger days. I found that making time for solitude such as scheduling solo rides on my motorcycle, flying, journaling, etc...anything where I'm alone with my thoughts helps me identify the red flags earlier. Stay strong and guard your time!

[@Pushing_Pixels]

As long as you remain self aware, and reflect on your thinking sometimes, you will be miles ahead of a lot of people. On the intense political polarization, it's important not to cut off dialogue prematurely. People with different views talking to each other, instead of only people who confirm their views, and trying to find common ground, is the only antidote to this schism. Don't accept abuse from people and don't let yourself be baited by those with no intention of engaging in good faith dialogue. But people need to hear the other side from the other side, instead of only hearing the strawman version from their own side.

[@quietspirit9345]

Indeed!🌻 Many employers are doing this.

[@sharontalley2155]

What used to be my family is now a cult. They answer to the narcissist cult leader only. She has convinced the family that i am not worthy of their love or any affection. I am "the problem." They all live in my home and every one of them only does what the cult leader says. Their kids range from age 10 to mid 20s they have no outside connections excep for a part time job. To them she speaks sweetly and they believe she really cares about them.

[@symeebryant]

Freedom.

[@cindyann4474]

🦋❤️🙏

[@godblissfulfun]

This is very important information everyone must know💯💯💯 this can be commonly seen in varying levels all around us and we all need to be alert to create a healthy society ❤❤❤

[@naseemm2930]

I didn’t realize that a workplace can be cult like, until I started working at a very toxic workplace. If anyone spoke up for their rights, they would ignore them at first. If they wouldn’t let it go and demanded some type of change to take place, that employee would be fired. I heard that this happened multiple times before I started working there. Then, it happened to me. They refused to listen to their employees’ concerns, because they didn’t care. Employees were expected to be on call for an entire week, answering the phone at <a href="#" class="seekto" data-time="60">1:00</a> a.m and losing sleep, even though this was just an HVAC company. It was sick.

[@SurvivingNarcissism]

That's how it works. Dr. C

[@jh2325]

Sounds like my entire family haha

[@sheilajac]

yup mine too. literally said to me: "we all see things the same way"...that "way" is that I am the problem and they are infallible, despite their overt abuse, sadism and sociopathic behaviours (and that they hide that nasty stuff from "outsiders"). I recently told someone a few things my dad has done to me (and to animals)...and she was horrified. I told a psych nurse something my mom said to me and the nurse cringed and looked like someone had stuck half a lemon in her mouth! Prior to seeing "normal people's" reactions to abnormal treatment, I was pretty much convinced I was the "problem".

[@sheilajac]

@Pedro Ivan Sanchez where you going? I might need to meet you there lol! No empathy, they might as well be robots. most of my friends are the same way, especially the ones I made in my youth. shallow, mean-spirited and aggressive.

[@jh2325]

@@sheilajac my dad sees me sexually; its pretty messed up that I'm 30 and he still smacks my bottom and sends me p0rn. Yea not only a narcissist but something else entirely that I no longer wish to know

[@cindyann4474]

I believe you 🙏🙏🙏

[@cindyann4474]

@@sheilajac 🙏🙏🙏

[@SteeleMagnolia]

Dr. Carter, I truly appreciate your acknowledgement that narcissists seek therapist roles, for obvious reasons. I know I speak for countless others when I say that you are a remarkably honest and pure soul, with such professionalism that's a true rarity. Thank you immensely for the knowledge and guidance you provide to those of us in desperate need of tune-ups and maintenance.

[@LiminalDrag]

I feel this mindset may be what's behind my dad's belief that it's he who decides to be in your life, not you. You don't get to make that decision for yourself, and no amount of abuse gives you the right to make that decision. You must go down with the dysfunctional ship and save his image.

[@Pushing_Pixels]

You can escape. It's hard, but you can do it.

[@LiminalDrag]

@Fancypants McVomitshirt Oh, don't worry, I have gotten away. Thank you. His ego is number one priority, so he's happy I'm not around to probe his conscience anymore🫠

[@SteeleMagnolia]

My mother is the narcissist, still going strong with her toxic mind, at the age of 82. I went no-contact a few years ago, and it's been a lifted burden, knowing that I have a choice as an adult, but didn't as the scapegoated child. She's very aware that I know her "game", since I'm most likely the only human on the planet that has called her bluff. I know that her furry exists, because of my absence, and as word got around that I would never allow her inner demons to dictate my life.

[@LiminalDrag]

@angelasizemore6005 Yep. My parents gave up on the hoovering pretty quickly with me, too. I'm just a giant pain in their ass because I wouldn't yield to their bullying and manipulation anymore, so they happily leave me alone now. I'm of no use to them, and they know that i know 😆

[@SteeleMagnolia]

@@LiminalDrag Comrades in arms!!! Yay for our freedom 😃

[@lovesings2us]

Looks to me like Gus is enjoying his special gifts that make him just who he is - including the gift of napping.

[@SurvivingNarcissism]

That's his best skill. Dr. C

[@pameladeleone135]

I think you just said it all!

[@5DNRG]

This post is especially relevant in our (USA) divided political environment. Thank you for this intelligent analysis.

[@christopherlyman1486]

Thank-you, there's almost no hope. My life is ferociously horrible.

[@maggiegarza9]

Oh no! Christopher, there is always hope!

[@christopherlyman1486]

@@maggiegarza9 Thank-you, however, it's not a recurrent feature of my social involvement with others. This has posed and effectuated total financial ruination. While hope is an abstract detail, it's not part of certain neurogeneses (or pathological personality disorders). What do you mean? I'll gladly discuss this with you. Please begin now, if you've time enough, for I'm on the run constantly. As a neurotypical, this is quite evident.

[@jolly7728]

Glad you are dealing with this subject. So many people have suffered and are still suffering from cult involvement. It's very pervasive. I am aware of someone who has to ask permission from a cult associate before doing the simplest things, such as going to visit a parent. It's an insane mind control system. Of course, many of these destructive groups/people require members to separate themselves from loved ones, using fear tactics to quash dissent. Yet, little is being done to get the message out about this serious threat to a person's mental health and livelihood. Dr. Carter, thanks so much for broaching this extremely important subject where few dare to tread.

[@CJ-hz1uj]

Last year, seems like such personalities inverted the whole idea of a cult. They tried to subject the whole world to their cult system, so that seemingly smaller groups and individuals who could think independently and for themselves were made out to be something like heretics to be burnt at the stake. Respect for individual views and choices seemed to be suppressed.

[@maxineboxer9714]

So true, we are seeing such a cult now and it’s scary. Try questioning the worldwide narrative and you will be vilified and cancelled.

[@premgarjan6197]

"do things that support you in being you". I feel encouraged. thanks!

[@craigmerkey8518]

Thank you for all your fantastic information and dedication! We all know the type where a warm summer breeze is an inconvenience! A hollow shell will never be satisfied!