T-Fade reacts. JP34 vs. Arc Audio

Just sharing my thoughts on a recent review I read comparing the D4S JP23 vs the Arc Audio ARC1000.4DSP.
Read the full review here.
www.bestcaraudio.com/bench-br...
#down4sound
#arcaudio
#audio
#amp
#car
#bass
#react
#sq
#classd

[@wal]

I read the article and found it sad, deceiving and an obvious attempt to bash D4S. Fade does an excellent breakdown here! David commented on Facebook saying he could pick out 0.001 vs 0.01 percent THD with music...easily! 😛

[@scottiffanimccord1509]

Didn't you and JP address the bridge power misprint in your review?

[@jackykimes]

Was D4S mentioned in the article? I don’t recall seeing the brand or model anywhere.

[@TrunkThunderLithium]

Like fucking hell he can. My white half hairy ass he can tell any distortion on that low of a level percentage wise. Come on now... Really 😂😂

[@Vegas_Baba808]

Like some of the others, I too am here because HiFi Vega referred us to you. Also subbed. 👍🏼 Not sure why someone would compare different class products, but it humors me greatly in watching this comparison get shredded. 😂

[@johnbooth3]

Good comments. Probably the best information about graphs and how to really read it and understand what you are looking at.

[@THELIFEOFPRICE]

Thank you for stating the obvious again! And yes we will be fixing the misprint on the bridged rating =D Not sure if you saw my post the other day but it went a little something like this july 30th So it’s been brought to my attention that 🤡SOMEBODY🤡 was so butt hurt / jealous of the amount of exposure / love our new jp34ab amp has gotten they decided to TRY AND SLANDER IT. They also did this in the shadiest / vaguest way😂😂 how might you ask? Well one they gave ALL KINDS of “hints” BUT would never mention DOWN4SOUND OR THE JP34AB amp model. NEXT what did they decide to compare our $279 amp against? A $1400 ARC Audio ARC1000.4 D four-channel Class D Amplifier saying this 250wx4 amp OBLITERATED the jp34abs power output WELL DDUHHHH its rated at 134wx4😂😂😂 yes you read that right. Imagine being THAT upset about all the hype / exposure the jp34ab is getting that you do something THAT DUMB and think it’s a great Idea🤡😂 run that 250x4 against OUR 250x4 jp234 and see how them power ratings stack up against an amp that costs 75% less😂😂 Anyways I’m flattered that down4sound is constantly on all of these peoples minds like this. Some I wouldn’t have ever even thought we would be 🫣😅😮‍💨 Anyways y’all hAve a great night 😁

[@jrwinckler6744]

Been on the fence for the jp34ab this video just sold me on it! Jp you know your doing something right when you get haters like this, your doing what the masses want we’re not all able to buy a 1400-1500$ amp. That’s about the budget for my whole system and through down4sound I can build a very respectable system for that. Your jp8 is killing it with my sa12 v2 in a profab box can’t wait to order the jp34 and some good speakers. ❤

[@RandoManFPV]

@@jrwinckler6744 some people are just upset that in today's world, as much as the price of most things has gone up, the price per watt/price per db has gone down a lot; and now you can spend less than 1000$ and have the same output as them who felt they had to spend many 1000's for it and just look different. I don't know about all this controversy but if jp is right and they compared the jp34ab to an Amp rated around 250x4 then somebody is retarded 🤷‍♂️ aNd tHaTs aLL I goT 2 saY boUt thAt 🤪

[@tatialo37]

Great comments! It's like the tubes vs. solid state argument! Both have their uses, but cost is the defining factor.

[@LivinLoudwithAndy]

Psh I can hear the difference between a 149.99 and a 150 bruh 🤣

[@scottiffanimccord1509]

JP already stated a long time ago! the rating at bridge was a misprint so did Williston Audio Labs.

[@bennyblanco14]

I love Arc Audio its nothing short of a beast company that makes everything great .. JP amps are NOT SQ....ARC AUDIO IS SQ..... I am pretty sure NO ONE in the SPL side gives a fuck about frequency that cant be heard...like you said, most people who buy the JP amps are using them for PA and the rest of that horrible shit speakers and super tweets while the Arc series amps will more then likely run some active set up on high end speakers who will spend hours tuning the fuck out of their system....so, this comparison was fuckin terrible...

[@EverydayAudios]

The brand doesn’t dictate whether it’s SQ or not. I’d argue that the amp is the least important link in the SQ chain

[@alconyers2003]

@@EverydayAudiosthe least important. Wow. Thd dampening are the main things in sq.

[@alconyers2003]

Jp amps are not quality nor sq. They are cheap. They use cheap internal components. You get what you pay for.

[@bennyblanco14]

@EverydayAudios that's a lie, the Amp is a huge factor and it dictates how well it will reproduce the sound without adding too it..cheap amps like Skar or JP have a ton of noise but if you notice how almost every single spl brand 4 channels will have amps that do 200 watts rms a channel ..they know that more power will hide that floor noise it produces at low power.... now, compare that to SQ amplifiers that will do 50-100 watts.. companies like zapco, xcelsus, tru technology, helix, etc. Need to build there amps with far better high quality resistors

[@donjaun540]

A fair comparison would be JPs $900 classAB amp vs ARC 100.4. Price wise within a couple of hundred dollars but JPs amp is more powerful. 🤔😏

[@MullinPerformance]

I would love to see a "SQ" guy take a blind test switching back and forth between amps.

[@djloveattack]

Me too none almost no one could tell 😂

[@Vegas_Baba808]

I too would like to see someone be able to discern the difference. I know I sure as hell couldn't...

[@timweis6951]

There was a CD distributed among some IASCA competitors and Audiophiles in the 90s. Someone played a song at different clip levels through different amps and recorded the output through an attenuated mic input to match the levels on the CD. The only amplifier that sounded "different" was an ancient Class A vacuum tube amp. "It makes everything sound like a heavy metal guitar" :D

[@jackykimes]

@@timweis6951 Those tracks were to tell (by ear) if your system was distorting, not to tell amplifiers apart. Are you saying that you could not distinguish the distortion tracks except on a tube amp? I recall hearing the difference on my xtant 2200i via Phoenix Gold processors. Not shabby equipment but nothing exotic either.

[@devanjames877]

@@jackykimesseems like a pissing contest. The internal components will make a difference it’s a joke to say they wouldn’t. Wipe your ass with 1 ply and 2 ply tell me there ain’t a difference yk.

[@speedpros]

Good video, D4S is good to go in my opinion for the budget and quality. Yes people can get higher end but can you install it correctly and have the ability to tune it and have the presets good enough to fully recreate the artists music. I collect amplifiers and have different eras AB and currently running wolfram AW amps as a test and drive on hi end dsp and speakers and they perform well where I'm impressed. So it is a matter of budget and how you listen to music where you get your enjoyment

[@TaylorFade]

Lol @ 10*10 = 1,000. Some Skar math there.

[@evilinside5984]

Good points that you brought up. Sound quality, without actually listening= Blows my mind! Just wondering, but 34 seconds into this video, and you say Jp23 amp, and also again later in this video. Are you talking about the Jp34 as the title says, the Jp23 as you say in this video, or the Jp34aB?

[@paulgood2218]

Good video and completely agree

[@bassahaulic]

I'll bring over a JP-34ab to your house this week. Let's see what's up.

[@erobles396010]

Did u guys do that no video

[@z1berzerker]

Most people can't hear under 1% thd... dude should take up crocheting 🤷

[@BeSome1]

A lot of people don't know what makes an amp produce quality audio. Me included That was until I started Repairing my own equipment,Learning about amplifier repair as well as amplifier design. A huge eye opener to me was when I seen a stetsom amplifier class D will with a Carrier frequency of over 800khz So if you want a extremely cheap amplifier that can output clean audio from. get a statsom amp by- pass the horrendous pre amp circuit and use a dayton dsp. 😆. Oh and do some more streams damit 🤣

[@kewlbug]

I couldn't find anything wrong w the Dayton DSP except it wont take in more than 1.5vrms and only puts out 2-2.3v on the ouput. I went from that to AudioControl and that was junk. Finally got a new Helix.

[@SaltwaterBoogeyman]

😂 I actually have two on a cdt audio 3way and coaxials. Phenomenal amp, amazing sound! They replaced a ct sounds 150.6 and 60.4

[@mistertroysd]

Good video!

[@96kylar]

Good shit TFade.

[@johnnypiper1717]

You seem to really know your car audio equipment. I been trying to decide on a mono subwoofer amp. I was looking at the DD M2000, Salt 3 the Synergy WFO 2.1 and someone metioned the JP23 v2 was the best for the price. Which price really doesnt bother me im jus looking for good solid quality efficent amp that does more than rated power. Was looking at 2.5k to 3k jus to have a little head room. Any suggestions 🤔 thanks Dude appreciate it 🙏

[@RandoManFPV]

Ah who cares about all this, let's all just giggle about the time that kicker guy said anything under 40hz is a waste and unused 🤣

[@erobles396010]

Where can i find that

[@Bugglebub]

Regarding JP34ab (mismentions JP23 the whole video) anyway, has someone heard the JP34ab with tweeters while running but with no source? How much hiss is there?

[@K-Effect]

When is every day audios #118 going to be posted? I hope you’re still doing the show? It was the best one around!

[@EverydayAudios]

We’ll be getting back to it soon! Stay tuned!

[@TheSFFV]

Hifi sent me. That test has more holes than swiss cheese. No.mention of the control input device and how much thd it has. Also what were the gains set at? If it is the same source this should be the same. Also the graphs. FFT's actually that show resonant frequencys but taken with different machines. Even different o scopes have slightly different results. Also to compare a $280 amp to a 1700 amp that has DSP and I am sure a ton of filtering circuits is not even close to a fair comparison. I smell snake oil. Also the supported btands on the site Arc, Sony, Rockford, Hertz and a couple of others. Great job pointing out the hate on this one. Just subbed.

[@jackykimes]

"We’ll run both amplifiers on our audio analyzer with a very pure 1-kHz test tone..." You're grasping for straws here against a bench quality audio analyzer. -Why would you think that the gains were not set correctly? -Different 'quality' oscilloscopes will not vary by 40dB. That's just a silly assertion. And the author states that this is the same analyzer but upgraded (twice). Upgrades in this world improve resolution. The best argument that can be made is for the author to retest the Arc with the upgraded analyzer. I assumed that he did not b/c the Arc was no longer in his possession. Happens all the time with reviewers. Regardless, the order of magnitude of difference is in amps, not test gear. -The DSP circuitry only adds to the burden on the Arc. It does not help it perform better on distortion tests but actually makes it worse. -The point of the article was to compare cheap AB to quality class D. The price IS the point. w/out proof that the test is fake then your comment is the one that comes across as snake oil. You're looking for problems in the test that don't exist and your bias (whatever the reason) is apparent. I don't own either amps, don't care which one measures better. But one is objectively better than the other and this article proves it.

[@ralphlongo1975]

I don't call class D amps terrible, I say that you have to spend a ton more money on a D to get the sound of an inexpensive AB amp. The best D amp will never sound better than the best AB amp, the absolutely best you'll get is they sound the same, so all you're getting is a smaller chassis.

[@ericperry72]

Yeah I wouldnt say that anymore. I played with a Arc 1000.6 and it's was noticably better to my ears than my Phoenix Gold m44 and my ppi A.600. I also know one the of the highest rated amps in home audio is the fairly new technics Gu700, which is ganfet class D. When car audio start putting money on the input stage it will be a wrap for class Ab. And this is from a guy who covets Soundstream reference 500/300 amps. Hell I'd put the Kenwood xr-401 class D to a avg class Ab amp.

[@ralphlongo1975]

@@ericperry72 I'm not trying to be a jerk, but they have literal limitations in the construction that says they can't measure as good as a good AB, ever, it's literally not possible. So we still find ourselves in the position that we don't know if you can hear that difference with the human ear, when you can buy a Sony GS4 for less than 300 dollars that will outperform anything anywhere near double the price, it's hard to say there is any advantage to class D until they just don't give us a choice and stop making AB.

[@ericperry72]

@@ralphlongo1975 I had that Sony amp, very transparent amp, I also still have a mtx2300 and a PG zx600.2, but I'm not running any of them, I'm running my pioneer stage 4 prs- D4200f and the power, non existent noise floor, plenty of reserve power, and that amp will let you know if the recording is garbage. I use to be the same way, but then I started listening to the mid-level and higher end class D amps that use SQ input setups. Try looking up amps from Yamaha or iotva, those are class D and kills most class Ab home audio amps. If you wanna see where the tech is really at before it hits the auto amps go listen to real separate home audio equipment. If McIntosh is now making class D amps it's a wrap for class Ab. And again the newer designs with tube inputs or more input boards with killer op amps is where it's at. Actually the report that ranked that Sony amp highly, look and see where soundigital sd300.2 ranks...it's a ganfet class D.

[@ralphlongo1975]

@@ericperry72 you're still missing the point, at the price point of whatever class D you have, you'll have a better AB available (on paper for sure.) I'm not saying you can absolutely hear the difference, I'm saying you're buying an inferior product to gain a size advantage, they have simply put a ton of effort into that inferior product to make it sound close to or the same as the equivalent AB, but you're still getting a product that is less capable on any test bench. There is zero question about this, it's absolute fact, the only question is if you can hear the difference, that question will never be scientifically answered because no company gains from it more than they could lose if they lose, and no person has the funds to put together a real genuine test. All class D gets you is a smaller size because of less heat and power draw, that's literally the only actual advantage to it. That's important to some people, that's fine, have some company made it work? Maybe, sure. Will it ever have a clearer actual testing than any class AB or A amp? It's simply not possible.

[@eduardobatista329]

None of that matters at the end of the day , unless your into competition, because regular listening while driving or in noisy streets you will not be able to tell much of a difference, specially with a dsp and 😮good speakers

[@brianrich7828]

Running 2 Zapco component amps with a JP43@2ohms powering an 18” Adire Kali. Haven’t noticed it sounding any worse than any other sub amp I’ve ever used. The only thing that suck about the JP amps is the BT bass knobs,they simply don’t work.

[@Llegando_Tarde]

Sorry but I would never buy a Jp amp anyways, he didnt make up the numbers it is what it is.

[@Bassotronics]

Cerwin Vega Hifi sent me here.

[@user-oe4zr2ik3j]

Dmac will hear it sir.

[@EverydayAudios]

I one day aspire to also have magical golden ears

[@angelvip2474]

Very good video. Very good points. Only problem is I don't see this same energy in the comments with all the amp dyno videos with skar, JP, Wolfram and the many of the same rebadged amplifiers out there. All I see is expensive brand bashing. "This is why I love "clone amp brand" and hate JLaudio etc. Those are nothing bud overpriced crap. I love skar, JP, Wolfram etc because I get way more power for the buck. These brands are way better than "JL", "focal" etc. Then someone comes along and shows numbers and it's..."come on, not a fair comparison"🤦🏽‍♂️. And they w9uld be correct, it wasn't a fair comparison. So next time you see the mega watt china factory amp, be happy but don't try to compare with companies who actually continually bring innovation to the market at a price. Just think 15 years from now if companies like skar are still around their amps will be most likely rocking JL old tech and making a nice amplifier to boot. But remember that the innovators will also be light years ahead. Again really enjoyed the video just wish the audience understood that it goes both ways.

[@EverydayAudios]

Thanks for the comment. And if you follow me on social media… I always try to highlight the points you’re making. I’ll keep that energy.

[@angelvip2474]

@@EverydayAudios are you on insta and Facebook?. By the way you made excellent points. My comments were towards the groupies of brands in the comment section. That praise one way and don't look at the other side objectively is all. Again thanks for the vids

[@Arker57]

WHAT ARE WE BATS 🦇 lmaffo

[@lanewarriorillridez3739]

More like Audio Control D-6.1200 6 channel DSP amp vs Arc Audio Arc 6.1200 6 channel DSP amp! There you go!

[@BrandonBuckaudioanarchy]

Looks to me like he chose the Arc amp because he already had test data on it from a previous review. But still, this is nonsense. Particularly the bashing over noise that's -60db down from the fundamental. This is exactly how snake oil salesmen in car audio get away with their bullshit. They show someone that distortion and then sell them a set of speaker cables for five grand claiming they will eliminate the noise.... that you can't fucking hear. For the most part, I don't care at all about any measurement that is outside the resolution of human hearing. If I can't hear it, it's not there. Period.

[@freddiemoralez1536]

That's Hate at it's best, JP amps are for bass heads & like comparing McIntosh to Samsung audio dam ! I am going to get that same amps plumb crazy 🤪 combo. I'm going for SQ AND 🔊 BUMP ON A BUDGET.

[@jero1820]

16:45 differential inputs matter only when your hooking up RCA cables. Only use twisted RCA cables in differential inputs. Standard or shield RCA on the rest. Best way to tell what input you have. Ohm meter from the putter shield on the RCA and the ground on the amp. If it’s higher than 1K Ohm. Then it’s a differential input. Only if it’s higher than that use twisted RCA. Fact ck me if you don’t believe me.

[@Hittin2thabass]

It don’t matter bc they all make the highs “crispy”

[@JasonWW2000]

What does?

[@TrunkThunderLithium]

He should of compare the JP13.2 class ab 1-100 made amp. Then you'll be atleast getting close to honest true power an price almost

[@mistertroysd]

Through a DSP is different though

[@paulgood2218]

Not if your not using the dsp part

[@jackykimes]

the extra circuitry (DSP) actually makes it harder for the Arc to do well. The "cheap AB" amp should have demolished the class D Arc with DSP.

[@ralphlongo1975]

I want to see it up another known inexpensive amps now, Sony GS4, USAcoustics Barbara Ann, etc. If it performs vastly worse than those then there's something there, this sounds like a nothing burger argument from an uppity SQ guy.

[@SaltwaterBoogeyman]

Nobody will do that. Sound engineers have trouble distinguishing between the two lmfao man it’s a great amp for the money and this dude is on his high horse like most serious sq guys.

[@ericperry72]

I can't follow a review on a amp or speaker and the reviewer never listens to the product(s). Paper measurements are a starting point when comparing, it's your ears that determines which is superior.

[@d77543020]

Jp34ab

[@EverydayAudios]

My Bad. Will edit.

[@kewlbug]

I saw this article last week. It reads like a paid ad. Also, spot on w the "This Ferrari blows away the Honda, so Hondas are shit and a waste of money!" I still want to see someone start to run amps through all the kind of tests you see Audioholics *and Audio Science Review do with home receivers. Once we have the data, people can make their own decisions as far as what you get for the money.

[@THELIFEOFPRICE]

Thank you LOL

[@jackykimes]

"I still want to see someone start to run amps through all the kind of tests you see Audioholics do with home receivers. Once we have the data, people can make their own decisions as far as what you get for the money." That's precisely what the original article did and now people are complaining b/c the "cheap amp" lost.

[@kewlbug]

@@jackykimes I'm not complaining the cheap amp lost. I'm complaining they showed us something we already knew. I mean, at least compare amps in the same price range if you're gonna show Class D vs Class A/B..

[@kewlbug]

@@jackykimes I want to see which amps are overpriced, and which ones are actually amps to desire. Which amps have issues. And if a cheap amp does perform great, I want to see that too. I could see a cheap amp getting super popular if it gains reputation as an SQ amp.

[@jackykimes]

@@kewlbug audio science review started testing a some car amps but only a few.

[@asherdie]

The dollar amount does not denote class, or quality.

[@ryanamen6397]

Real comparison would be REAL total cost of manufacturing per amp compared to its price to consumers...then u can see which company is the shark thats stealing your money lol...cuz at the end of the day...its in a damn car...the worst enviroment for sq or spl

[@mcloopie]

I've had dealing with D.M. in the past. I have no idea how this guy has managed to get where he is in our industry. The guy is a clown that tries to slander any shop he hasn't personally dealt with. I've experienced it first hand. Someone needs to let the air out of his head. lol

[@bobit8742]

😂 the human ears can’t hear pass 15k why the fack test 19k-20k even at that range and It’s .09 😅. Why do people like to put other people down when they doing something great for everyone to enjoy? JP gave everyone afford and quality products. People should be grateful instead of talk trash. I am happy there are people like him in this world, that is not all about profit. He stands behind his products.

[@christiandshatto7765]

Honestly, I own audison Forza 8.9bit, jp34 a/b, audio control amps, sundown, old skool phoenix gold, morel etc.,etc.- lots of amps- call me crazy, but the only class d I've never been disappointed in has been alpine pdx. Don't get me wrong my Forza sounds good, the ac sound good, but only the alpine pdx has never sounded flat& lifeless to me. That's why I bought the Mosconi one 130.4 a/b dsp amp, it sounds wonderful!!- sorry, manufacturerers, but I don't care about efficiency, or size, I care about "lively"& OUTPUT! And, yes the beautiful jp34, purple sounds good to me!!! AS a matter of fact, I CHALLENGE any brand to send me their "top of the line" d amp for mids and highs"& I'll listen and give my honest opinion, and ensure it safely ships back to you. ( I'm over the "efficiency& small footprint" hype.)

[@EverydayAudios]

I have a few of the Mosconi 130.4DSP myself. I love those amps!

[@christiandshatto7765]

@@EverydayAudios I love that amp( Mosconi) it's the only amp I haven't taken out since I got it a few months ago, lol

[@ryanb8736]

Mosconi amps are amazing.

[@christiandshatto7765]

I got a new TV( KZbin app on it), and I was rewatching this, and I "may" pull my 130.4 out just to hear the purple jp34 again:-)

[@ganeshnarayan5505]

I really don't care what people say but JP amps are on of the best and beautiful amps i seen so far plus JP bass knobs are one of the best.Down4Sound rules all the way.

[@THELIFEOFPRICE]

Thank you =D

[@scottiffanimccord1509]

@@THELIFEOFPRICE Oh snap the man the myth the legend!! Love yea man

[@scottiffanimccord1509]

@Imagine That ! You sound like a child, reread your post.