Takenoko - Shut Up & Sit Down Review

[@CoryFleury]

I will forever be thankful for this game, it's the game that finally got my girlfriend to start playing board games with me and has led to so many more. And we still find it fun for what it is, so I'll have to respectfully disagree with you on this one. Cheers!

[@pucke1bd]

My wife and I love this game. Simple, not too long. Not a brain burner. Nice after a long day of work. My wife isn't one for complex, long games. She loves this one and I love playing it with her.

[@hoguemr]

Same exact situation here. Takenoko was our first game and now we have over 100 but we still love it and play it. It is best with 2 people I think though.

[@littlemissevel3607]

I agree. I have played it with friends and family and they've all enjoyed it (.. apart from my dad who for some reason has chosen not to understand the rules..) It's not a thrill ride but it's a pretty good "how long 'til dinner?" Game. Also recommend for sitting in front of a fire. I'd say it's best with 2 or 3 but I play it mostly with 2. Also it is probably worth mentioning that MOST of my friends aren't particularly competitive...

[@Tjolmir]

I also enjoy playing this with wife

[@clivecrous]

I showed this game to my wife. 3 games later it was I, for the first time, asking in a tired voice if we could go to bed and rather play more the next day. We've played it once to twice per week since then.

[@lukeboy61]

Ha, so I've just finished a game of this with my wife. We've just started trying out a stack of my brother's boardgames and have come to a similar conclusion. It's a fine start for us. Granted we spent the whole time painting a narrative that we are the Emperors most useless vassals, relegated to this 'honourable' position of panda carer to keep us busy. Think the game has a few more goes in it.

[@taylorlovell3072]

I respectfully disagree with 2014 Matt Lees. Takenoko is a great gateway game that's fun and cute! I've also found that when playing with experienced players it's actually pretty easy to figure out what objectives the other players are working on. To each their own but I love Takenoko!

[@iansharmacook]

My kids love it, I think its more a gateway game than the quintessence of panda based gaming

[@Trinketorium]

I respectfully agree with you, it’s a great game :)

[@MrZephy]

Trying to make moves that aren't likely to help your opponents is a good part of the tactics, and working around that is also interesting.

[@SeriousLark]

Completely agree with you. I've been playing this online and don't know if it's different, cause objectives wise it filters out ones that have already been fulfilled, but with experienced players you can really observe each others strategies and work out how to swing your game to suit how other people are working. If everyone's hitting those panda objectives, gardening is almost impossible and you really have to change up your game, whereas, if that's not happening and you have someone who's going really plot heavy you might want to go gardening instead. Not to mention deciding when to irrigate and put down plot objectives, not wanting to do it too early cause you're scared of helping someone but having to sacrifice that objective slot you could otherwise use. Really love the game to bits! The only gripe I have is how the randomness of the objectives can really leave someone with a shit hand of very low scoring and difficult to complete objectives without a way of discarding them making a game hellish for them. Had a few instances though where those very people have come out on top.

[@DstoltYT]

In future Nopeners, I'd love to see you talk about a handful of games that you think do the same sort of thing as the game in question, but better! Cosmic Encounter seems like a bit of an orange to Takenoko's . . . bamboo.

[@Trinketorium]

My wife and I also love this game - it’s one of her favourites - this and Viticulture - and we’ve never found it boring at all. Quite the opposite. Maybe it helps that I’m forced to go “num num num in my tummy” every time the panda eats some bamboo.. We recently got the chibis expansion with the Lady Panda (pandas are very formal and rarely use their first names) which adds some nice elements and fixes a few balance issues. But it’s a solid fun game, and provides hours of entertainment. My wife asked if we can play TI3 next week as it has cool ships. I’m concerned about what sound effects I’ll have to make for the Lion..

[@jspviking]

Thanks for uploading all of these older videos! I know you get a LOT of crap when you criticize something that many love, but I really value your opinion and LOVE hearing different viewpoints on games. No game will be loved by everyone and it's important to hear about the aspects people may potentially dislike. This is a subjective endeavor and the best you can do is be entirely honest about your experience - and you always do that with such flair and kindness!

[@ClarkPotter]

Just loved your comment 😊

[@andywilson5677]

Nice review. I love a bit of solo Matt action and I appreciate that you guys aren't afraid to criticize. Some other board game channels just praise everything and it becomes hard to know what they really like/dislike.

[@MAabacadaba]

I miss Matt's big-hair days.

[@yuirick]

わかりません　= "I don't understand" やめて = "Stop it" なに = "what?" 死にそう = "I am going to die" 危ない = "Dangerous" That was fun stuff. Hehe. :P

[@elonwhatever]

Nani? :)

[@richardguidote8490]

I love takenoko. Its a great game. I dont think its a gateway game more of an intro medium weight game. Its easy enough to know what ur opponents objectives are just by looking at how they move their panda and farmer or how they place their tiles.

[@stanstefan7532]

So this might be an unpoppular oppinion or just something that happened to us . We played Takenoko in a public cafe for the first time and we bought it for the wooden pieces and the genral feel of cuteness. We played it with several group of people most of them new to board games and they all loved it . The feeeling of building something of changing the board and in small ocasions in realising what other people are trying to do and locking in their eyes while you ruin their last 4 turns was priceless and always fun . Anddd there is the 2nd part of this the fact that me and my girlfriend have played so much of it only us two and we know most of the cards and moves . With all that knoledge it turned in to a really complexe strategy game where you need to prevent the other person from completing their tasks. We tried a 4 player game where you can se the cards of other players with some of out veteran board game friends and it was a whole new beast. I think this review is fair that the game does not offer much but in comparison to other games it is a much more powerful tool in making people like boardgames . You just need to know how to set up the game and make people interact give them hints and have fun bulling up on people that have completed more cards thay the rest of you.

[@SandCannon]

I am wondering do you still play this game and enjoy it? I was considering buying it for my niece and I thought that if you play with the objectives turned up then it fixes the main criticism in this video.

[@stanstefan7532]

@@SandCannon Actually yes, surprised to se that i bought the game more than 6 year ago... yes we still enjoy the game, it does not get to be played as much but thats just because we have more games now then we did then.

[@Endeva09]

The core element that thus review hinges on is not knowing others objectives. After a few games everyone knows there are only like 3 of each type of objective, just the coloure change, so you can figure out what people are going for and ruin their plans, its best to play the first 2-3 games with new players with face up objectives, then you can learn the cards while playing. Also you are limited to a hand of 5.

[@bigfatgoalie316]

The review boils down to the reviewer not being able to read his opponents. When I first got the game in 2013, each time I thought the game to a new player, they bought a copy. Years later, folks still want to play it with me. It’s an evergreen game for my play groups, and a go to gateway.

[@alxabreu]

I can only disagree. Great game to play with my kids and I don't ever feel bored playing it. It's a fast game when everyone know the rules and it's not that difficult to figure out what other players are trying to do and block them or take advantage of that for yourself. I guess it's one of those "If everyone liked blue, what would happen to yellow?"

[@Aversoul]

To be fair, they didn't ever feel bothered playing it either. In fact, they didn't seem to feel much of anything. I think they described it as disconnected. Their evaluation is basically the same as yours, isn't it? You haven't introduced anything that contradicts his review other than that its easy to figure out the strategy of other players. Even if that alone turned it into a recommendable game, I hope you're saying that in the context of playing the game with other adults as opposed to children.

[@alxabreu]

how one word can lead my comment the wrong way. I wrote bothered when I should have written bored. Matt mentions how boring the game felt. It never felt boring to me. Of course there's more tactical than strategy for most objectives but it's a fun light game to play with both children and adults. It's also a great gateway game.

[@kevinporter7065]

This is one of my favorite games to teach people new to gaming. Then again, there are other games that I do consider better for new players. That being said...while I disagree with some of your points, I hold nothing against you. Keep up the great videos. Looking forward to the next one as always!

[@user-sl4sx6dp4c]

What are some better games then?

[@anonleft]

Weird choice for a "nopener". There's a reason Takenoko is popular and it's not that people enjoy being bored. It's that, yes, it's pleasant to play with, but also it does give you lots of little strategic choices, and there is plenty of interaction bc you do get an idea of what people are trying to do *by watching what they do*. Not sure why players having hidden objectives is inherently boring? Look I do love SU&SD and if it didn't click with you it didn't click with you. Just think the reasoning for why you didn't like Takenoko was itself... a bit thin.

[@Aversoul]

From their experience, "bc you do get an idea of what people are trying to do *by watching what they do*" was clearly not true for them. They said so explicitly. "Not sure why players having hidden objectives is inherently boring?" This, on the other hand, they didn't say at all. Maybe that's why you aren't sure of why?

[@KindredBrujah]

I would wonder what they missed that they couldn't get an idea of their opponents' tactics when other people here clearly can. Besides... it's not like you can ever really know what your opponents are going to do in Twilight Imperium, for instance, but that doesn't detract from it as a game. The only difference there is that there's direct player interaction, but if that's your criteria for what makes a good game or not, you're basically writing off every single Eurogame, which is obviously a nonsense proposition.

[@artstsym]

Generally speaking, hidden objectives are a negative mechanic. There's a lot of reasons why, but the best might be their impact on the story. I'm not talking about the story the game is portraying, but the story you and your friends are building. Stories are strongest when they have strong characters, and strong characters almost always have clear goals, hence muddying those motivations better net you some big thematic points, or at least constitute a character choice. There are plenty of games which hide the weight those goals carry, and almost all (in one way or another) hide the resources that players can use to recognize those goals.

[@KindredBrujah]

That's an interesting take Meris. I don't know that I entirely disagree, but I will say that stories in games are great (Small World is an excellent idea of a game that lends itself well to running narratives), but it shouldn't be overlooked that these are still first and foremost _games_. It is important to have something that isn't clear to everyone or games lack longevity, because it becomes possible to predict too early who will win, and that's rubbish for everyone. An excellent example is the base game of the Game of Thrones board game. In a four player game, and played correctly, Baratheon can win without there being anything the opposing players can do, because there simply isn't enough secret stuff going on for other players to spring on them. Every action can be taken knowing exactly what your opponents can do in response.

[@artstsym]

Having never played the Game of Thrones board game, I'll take your work on it, but on the surface that sounds like a problem with resource transparency, not motivational transparency (in other words, people need more unpredictable actions, not goals). Also, "it's a game first and foremost" doesn't address why we play games in the first place. There are plenty of reasons, and saying what constitutes fun for the population at large is literally impossible because many have opposing definitions of fun, but you'll find SUSD (and me) on the side of games that build memorable experiences, ones that our brains naturally craft narratives around. I've played many games with very limited information, and in my experience the ones where I don't understand (fundamentally) why my opponent is doing something are far more boring because I can't connect with (or more importantly, manipulate) that.

[@brucewayne3148]

Years after first playing, someone told me about the variants included in the expansion that can be used in the base game: 1) The Panda can't eat the bottom stump, only the upper sections, Pandas aren't stump removers. 2) For each set of 3 different objective types completed, earn an additional 3 points. Using this variant made the game much more enjoyable and secured it a spot in my collection.

[@RWHShadow]

Just yesterday, I played this game with my cousin.. & Oh My God, that was the 1st time I found someone who desperately wants to play the same game over & over again (Yeah, we spent 2 hours playing it 3 times, won't mind the 4th, but the clock did mind).. I just love this game.. Love the artwork, love the mechanic, love how smooth it is to teach to newbies.. My Top1 Gateway Board Game ever..

[@GretSeat]

I'm in a weird position. Just bought Terraforming Mars and Takenoko for my birthday today. I also love your reviews. So I started the Terraforming Mars video review for my fiance and you guys couldn't recommend it. But we played it and she was like "huh they were wrong" And now I watched this and she goes "babe maybe they just suck at reviews, because they said Mars sucked too but it's a great game and I had fun" So now I can't watch your videos around her because she thinks you guys have bad taste in games lmao

[@AhJong0]

I admire the honesty of this review. Thanks SU&SD

[@harrij9831]

Takenoko has been one of my favourite games since I first played it. It's very simple and very calming. It's a fast game to play and it looks beautiful. It definitely earned a permanent place in my collection.

[@photoben]

Way to improve on the hot toddy, simmer a chunk of ginger in some water for 15 minutes (and longer for a really firey flavour), and use this instead of the plain hot water. This makes a ginger tea, really gives a kick to the toddy.

[@jergarmar]

Even just a pinch of ginger powder will do in a... umm... pinch. Not perfect, but still quite good, and if you're sick you may not want to hassle with simmering ginger. And then to be really extravagant, add a teaspoon of allspice dram. Killer.

[@Mat23]

This was my gf's first board game I bought her in 2015. Tho she has moved on to other more complicated games now. She still says it's her favorite mostly due to nostalgia, as it showed her that boardgames don't have to be competitive. (Which was the main reason she wasn't interested in board games in the first place). But I agree, I dread having to play this game more then once every few months. But I will say it is great for kids, and new players looking for something simple.

[@mremogay13]

Takenoko was one of the first games I bought. I absolutely love it. We've got it to the table a few times and it's been well received. It's good to just have a bit of a chill out between more intense longer games, as it's so light and playful. :]

[@salmanqaisar7377]

Have to disagree with you. I played it with my 3 kids, and didn't enjoy that first game much, so it sat on the shelf for months. My 8y old son and I played again, and we REALLY enjoyed it - quick, simple decisions but with some strategy too. Our first game, he stomped on me with a panda strategy. Which led to look on bgg forums about whether that is broken or not. Found out expansion fixed it with 2 simple rules: 1. Panda cannot eat first bamboo on any plot (so makes panda objectives a bit harder) 2. At end of game, every set of completed objectives (ie panda + plot + gardener) is worth 3 bonus points - this encourages variation in play + strategy. Played my son again, and had N epic game with both of us figuring out each others objectives + me winning 41 vs 40 (even though he got emperor card with 2 points). Fantastic fix to that issue + really fun game! I think the reason the very first game went flat was my daughters were not interested.

[@salmanqaisar7377]

Btw You don't need the expansion to add those rules.

[@konstantinstepanov5461]

idk i had fun with this game, well mostly because I would make a game for myself of figuring out what is everyone working towards. After a few plays its quite easy to see patterns in their moves and knowing what cards score most react to those actions. You see a player laying pink tiles together - cock block them with another colour tile, you see player focusing more on moving their gardener to grow three tile high pink bamboo - time for panda to chomp. Its also quite nice that you get to choose your objectives especially with decisions of do you mirror your opponents and ride on their back completing same objectives, or do you do something opposite to what they are so you can score points while denying them theirs.

[@JosephPage]

I felt like one of the pleasures of this game was the kind of character that you could project onto it - like, with each of the weather rolls, you could say something about the character of the panda with how he scuttles away in terrified fear and comfort-eats some bamboo to calm himself down every time lightning strikes, or how the gardener is living in an absurdist nightmare where he just wants to make his nice garden bigger and more efficient even though he viciously hates the panda that keeps destroying his work and he can't get rid of it, or how the emperor is basically Prince George in Blackadder the Third in how he clearly has no idea how to actually be an emperor yet is unreasonably happy anyway. I think Takenoko is one of those games where people enjoy playing it not because it's strategically deep but because they enjoy spending time in that world and just playing around with those characters. Kind of like Life Is Strange - for all its flaws, that game is really popular because their characters resonate with players. They certainly do with me. It's just nice. I like nice things.

[@RowantarotBlogspot]

Precisely! :)

[@DAmaster07]

I disagree. I've had a lot of fun with Takenoko since I've owned it. I think it's fair to say that there isn't a lot of direct player interaction because you cannot see other players objectives, but it doesn't feel like I'm playing solitaire. Every time someone moves the Panda, the Gardener, or makes bamboo grow, it's affecting everyone. It's a light game, but a great one for the family or more casual gamers.

[@sarag8925]

What if you keep your objectives cards face up? would it make the game better, more fun?

[@mkietzmann]

We love this as a 2-player game, which makes it a lot easier to figure out what the other one is aiming for and screw them over in the process. The online version on BGA is really good, too.

[@darylburt4194]

Funnily enough this was my first boardgame purchase after discovering modern boardgames and it lasted exactly one go before I exchanged it...agree with everything said!

[@KindredBrujah]

I've played this game a few times and had little trouble in judging broadly what my opponents were attempting to do and stymieing their actions by tactical movement of the panda or the gardener. It's really not all that complicated: If someone's trying to build pink bamboo in a square, then you send the panda in to eat it. If they look like they're trying to set up a particular shape (like three tiles in a row), then send the gardener somewhere such that they won't be able to reach the tile they want on their turn.

[@joshestes6427]

I played this with some friends and felt that I must have missed something, the pieces all seemed in place, I may have even won (shows how memorable it was for me), but I didn't want to play again.

[@michaelp6313]

Love you guys. You are my go-to reviewers. But....you are wrong(ish) on this one. Sure, it's simple. But, I do believe you can spot what your opponent is doing and thwart them. It's fun. Great? No. But, fun. Thanks either way. (Did you ever review the expansion)?

[@letsgetsomeshoes1239]

how can an opinion be wrong?

[@KindredBrujah]

Because they said you can't see what your opponents are doing, and we believe that you can.

[@SnazzBot]

I've played this game once and enjoy it, but that was with the expansions and everyone else said it's usually quite a passive polite game but that time it was quite aggressive. But a game should not need an expansion to be good. Good little review and glad to see you back Matt 😁

[@PonSquaredJapan]

As someone who can read Japanese, thanks for the laugh.

[@nanogibbon]

Abunai!

[@jonathankatz9259]

As someone who is about 1 year into my self-teaching japanese journey, it was fun to see the humor too! 　全部がわかりました！毎日、より習っています！

[@AStrayJose]

A friend of mine bought the game while we were hanging out together along with my little sister (who doesn't play games that much). My friend found it fun, but My sis and I really didn't want to play again. It was pretty boring, even for a chill day. I think we switched up to Ascension afterwards. - J

[@MightyAx]

I help run a public games event in at Heffers Bookshop Cambridge and if people are looking around in awe at the fact that boardgames arent just Monopoly anymore I generally sit them down and play Takenoko. It has that easy on ramp of foundational rules, its quick, non-confrontational, its super cute! Once they are done they have all our other games to play and might even pick those rules up easier and have found some people to play with. NOPENER you will not deter me!!! But you’re right, I’ll almost never play it apart from with some newbies. Takenoko, its fantastic (with caveats).

[@JosephPage]

"Hot Toddy - I don't understand!" Nice ;)

[@carpemkarzi]

Wish I had seen this earlier. I did pick it up and my kids found it really boring. They prefer Survive and Pompei.

[@luiscarlosqg]

Carpe Mkarzi thank you. I wanted to buy it to play with my children, but now I won't.

[@carpemkarzi]

luiscarlosqg no worries. It’s hard to find games they like. I have a few and I am building up a library of games until they are old enough to get into some of my more complicated ones

[@LucianoHilton]

Well, I disagree, but that's ok.

[@ZerolightX]

Excuse me sir, but you are doing it wrong. According to the internet, you are supposed to outraged that someone did not agree with your views.

[@LucianoHilton]

OMG You're right! Shame on me! lol

[@ViperaRaddei]

I've lived off of hot toddies this winter... I've found a blended scotch to work phenomenally well, and I stir it with a cinnamon stick.

[@yannlaliberte8407]

for a family game its ok, wife and daughter, its fun and beautiful

[@Absydion]

I agree. Takenoko is a game that we never go back to. It's boring with little opportunity for interaction.

[@ganzheston2313]

i watched the review and read the comments , it is interesting to see different opinion but given in a good way

[@tominatorxx]

Honestly, for me the fact that objectives are hidden adds something quite nice to the game. Not only are you trying to look for the patterns that others are making, but at the same time it's also about using the moves from other players for your personal objectives. Last game I played, I prevented my brother for about 4 or 5 turns to finish up on one of his objectives. He was always really close and eventually he got it. Not because I couldn't do anything about it but because his last move aided me in finishing my objective. That's what I love about Takenoko. It's a relatively simple puzzle with at the same time the element of trying to assess what the other players are up to. And using their moves for your own gain. I feel like it's quite a bit more aggressive and devious than some other gateway strategy games simply because it isn't necessarily about blocking a player immediately. But rather using their moves in combination with your own to gain as many points as possible. Call it a COOP game where the others are unwillingly helping you to achieve your objective. The fact that you can subtely influence their aid is excellent imo.

[@inkcoffeemarks18]

The game is charming and is a family favorite! Love you guys, but obviously this one is just a difference of opinion 🤔

[@eviebee3188]

This one is interesting. My (casual) board games group have played both Cosmic Encounter and Takenoko. Takenoko *is* a very simple game. We play it with the objective cards face up, though, so perhaps that fixes your issues with it. The general consensus has been that Takenoko was fun, relaxed, and sociable, while Cosmic Encounter required a lot of stopping and checking the conditions of other players, more time spent explaining rules and sorting out components. Certainly not the worst game ever, and also not the most hard core group (they love Talisman, for example) but I think something I'm finding with SUSD reviews is that they are aimed at more of a core market for gaming than I am part of. Mostly this comes up whenever they delight in the density of the rulebook :P

[@oliviaheis2905]

was waited for this video, you killed me when you said "incredible boring" no need to continue :) thank you very much for telling the absolutely true ....horribly devious :))) Just love your review ! keep the good work, an fantastic review deserve a huge like.

[@drsch]

Takenoko is an outstanding and entertaining game that I've played with dozens and dozens of people. They've all enjoyed it quite a bit. Is it a super deep and detailed and full of conflict? No. Is it a great quick game that you can play with friends when you don't have hours to give and just want to get through a few games after dinner? Yes, of course. It's a game that should be in everyone's collection. It's not completely random. Once you've played it a few times, you start to catch on quite quickly to what other players are trying to do and it's quite easy to mess up what they're doing and impact the game. Go get the game, you'll enjoy it. This guy is the first person I've ever met who didn't enjoy it.

[@marcosousa4029]

Loved the channel, you guys are adorable! The sincere review is always welcome, it is really hard to find trustworthy reviews.

[@CitrusArchitect]

Man, Takenoko is my favorite game - I definitely disagree with this. I much prefer low-to-mid complexity games than the most of the games you guys have recommended. Love your channel, respectfully disagree on this video.

[@Juz_P]

I'm gonna defend Takenoko as good introduction to stategy boardgames (learning to manage resources and multiple objectives) for non-strategy boardgamers. I had a lot of fun teaching it to wife/coworkers/non-boardgaming friends etc, and everyone seemed to enjoy it as a fun lunchtime game. It is not too competitive, not an objectionable theme, and there is a little messing with people, as with some experience you can determine what they are chasing by their actions. Negatives for us was the "hold a bunch of points back till the end" and if you allowing top-decking points from the objectives pile, can result in massive power shifts in the last turn (though everyone can do it) that seem a bit unearned. Not saying there isn't better games, but am saying I found about 6 people who have all enjoyed it enough to play it a few times.

[@niederman]

Can you guys create an opener playlist? Since you don't put it in the title it's kinda hard to find em all! They're my favorite

[@shutupandsitdown]

We have one on the website: www.shutupandsitdown.com/videos-page/ A lot of the openers are still on Vimeo and haven't come over to KZbin yet, we're trying to correct that this week!

[@SamuraiFantana]

I nearly bought this game a few months ago, but Matt's review made me hesitant. Last night I finally got round to playing it and . . . I liked it. A lot. So much so, I'll be picking up my own copy later this week. I see Matt's points, but my collection needs a nice relaxing game that can be used to bring others to the hobby, and this should do the trick. While reviews are great (and I mostly match SU&SD's thoughts like 95% of the time on everything else I play) you can't beat a bit of "try before you buy".

[@difenderu]

Get better, Matt! Thanks for the review! =)

[@lystic9392]

Have you tried playing it with the player objectives open? Or all open but one? I wonder if that would be more interesting?

[@DavidChong]

Right? That was my first thought as it seems to be the crux of the objection to it.

[@lystic9392]

Peter Dorsett Well thank you for thinking about it and replying to me. That's a shame though, I had hoped there would be a relatively easy way to houserule the game to alleviate its biggest problem. Well looking at the other comments, the game does seem to have fans who like it the way it is.

[@Jinxaire]

I have to agree. I bought this game when I was new to the hobby after watching the Tabletop episode. I thought it looked really appealing and that the cute design might appeal to my non-gamer roommates at the time, too. We played it once and I thought it was dull as hell. Ended up trading it away after that; we never wanted to play it again.

[@cnlawrence1183]

I like Takenoko for what it is. And specifically for what it is. Kids and Casual Gamers can enjoy the game because of its cuteness and heavy dose of luck instead of strategy. Even though you can still increase your chance to win by applying strategy. Either way, we like it as a family and when in-laws come in for the cute board games. I agree that you don't want to request for another game but I can play it with the kids right before bed or use it for a relaxing filler game in between brain heavy strategy games (for the casual). I would have liked to hear your recommendation for alternatives instead of saying it's not as good and leave us without an idea of a replacement. I still really enjoy the vids and I'm glad to see more of these! Thanks!

[@lunheur]

It's funny that I see exactly where you're coming from on all those points...but this was one of the games that got me and my friend group into BGs. Mostly, like you said, because it introduced to a lot of mechanics we didn't think could be in board games and the aesthetic. We don't play it that often but we still bust it out sometimes and got an expansion recently. Recently played Cosmic Encounter for the first time after a few years of playing board games. Absolutely hated it haha (might've had to do with the group not being a good mix). I was disappointed in myself for hating such a classic. But there's a game for everybody out there.

[@BorrisChan]

So I have a quick question... would there be any value to not hiding one’s hand? Playing with the cards turned up on the table for the rest of the group to see? I feel like that was a big part of why the game came across as a bit broken in the review. Could that help fix it in anyway or does it still fail? Love the show!!!

[@helenaclarkson6978]

aw :( my heart cried a little bit, I love this game - still love your reviews though!

[@corpclarke]

I love this game. One of the strategic factors you haven't really discussed is you have to choose between trying to finish the low value, quick missions and get the extra points for finishing first (but risk a lower score) vs going for the higher value missions which risk falling behind and completing less missions.

[@egoszmotyike]

Well, for me its boring too, but I have it because I have a lot of friends and family members who dont like screwing anyone over but they dont want to play cooperative either. I think this game is a good family weight game. Dont get me wrong I wont ever play it if I can play something better but there are people who will want to play this and then I will play with them.

[@celebjeapordy]

I like many of the people in the comments have to disagree. The main complaint that I saw was that you can't see what other people are trying to accomplish. That is incredibly easy to solve. Just have everyone show their goal cards. If you are looking for more conflict which sounds like is the complaint than that should solve your issue.

[@aaro1268]

I think this is a case where the game isn't a deep tabletop game, but it's an excellent board game for kids that teaches some math and basic strategy. It's really not a deep and interactive game. I played this with my girlfriend a long time back and we enjoyed it as a diversion at the tabletop coffee shop. As you mention, it's a really smooth introduction to the world of tabletopping. It's not a crunchy or social one though.

[@seanhillman1016]

Is it possible that the game is supposed to be a bit of a Zen experience? Whether it succeeds or not is another matter, but your critique may in face be the way the game is designed to be played? Shrug.

[@Aversoul]

How is he supposed to review that game from a perspective he didn't experience? I think the failure of the game from a zen perspective (in his specific case) is self evident. Sure, its possible, but its just as possible that Monopoly is meant to be a zen game. Competitive games where the only way to defend its mechanics is to judge it as a zen experience makes me think the game, as a competitive game, is a failure. Maybe it'd do better as a co-op.

[@seanhillman1016]

Because you can walk into a Zen garden and be bored because it is not your idea of what a garden should be.

[@pareod]

This is the one time I've disagreed with a SU&SD review. Takenoko has flaws (tile placement cards are worth nothing), but I think it's about as good as Ticket to Ride. Also, after becoming familiar with the cards we've gotten pretty good at guessing what other players are working towards. The Chibis expansion makes it even better by allowing you to swap out cards and have a second pond for irrigation.

[@sebasculin3739]

It would be cool to see a 2 player version of this where the gardener is trying to keep up with the hungry panda. Hidden info would make more sense there, co-op?

[@Aquadoozy]

Agree. Played it once and sold it. The panda theme is adorable and I wanted to love it, but it was too overly simple. I could see it working with kids maybe. But there are too many really good games with strategy that could also work with kids,

[@superchee2e]

I respectfully disagree, though I do see your point(s). I love big games like xia, star wars: rebellion, fields of arsle, eclipse, mage wars or one of my favorites, caverna, you get the idea. But sometimes I love turning off my brain (apart from some very light puzzling) and just watching a cute panda eating some cute little bamboo pieces. I understand why you wouldn't recommend this game, But it seems like you're implying this game should never hit the table and that I disagree with. But I am glad you recognize this as a possible gateway game, especially for children. I'm not starting my kids off with any of those other games but I am going to try this with them.

[@kotieerwee2593]

Completely disagree with mostly everything in the review, still entertaining though so keep it up.

[@JHuntjens88]

I don't know if 'boring' is the right word... I think that the lack of control and the randomness in objectives (with fluctuating levels of difficulty) really bugged me about this one. If you had bad luck with the objectives being dealt and you have no way of knowing what your opponents are up to, then it just feels like an unfair game. The cuteness is this games only selling-point. But it is a trap...

[@tapion1ives]

Amazing most of the comments disagree with this

[@pasqualecirone9755]

Certainly a well presented review that is spot on. I own and indeed enjoy Takenoko (for what it is). As much as I've tried to play this with my 8 yr old daughter, she just never got into it. All that being said, I still like the game and it looks really pretty so it'll stay on my shelf a while longer.

[@ijskender]

Me, my family, my friends, basically everyone I played it with must respectfully disagree with your review. It is a semicompetitive game with a zen feeling. Very relaxing. Does it's job of relaxing and amusing time very well.

[@frankiepb]

Bought Takenoko for my girlfriend as the first game in our collection, and she is IN LOVE with it. She keeps asking to play over and over again. Now we want to find new games to add some variety to our weekends, but I'm struggling to find any other that might live up to expectations. I cannot find anything close to the combination of gameplay simplicity, strategy variety, component quality and, of course, cuteness that this game provides. That's how much we (respectfully) disagree with the review ;) Any ideas welcome hehe

[@nikolaistarkweather5313]

I want a hot toddy now. I love how you put more whisky than water in.

[@Zanik99]

I like this game, but I think there's a problem with the scoring. The "eating bamboo" objectives are the easiest, but they'll give you the same amount of points as the more difficult "growing bamboo" and "laying tiles" objectives. In fact, the eating bamboo objectives can't be blocked by the other players, because the bamboo will stay in your own belly forever, until you use them to complete an objective. Just keep eating bamboo, and you will complete the objectives automatically, finish the game first, get the emperor's extra points and with that win the game, I think... You can prevent this by saying that everyone has to reach at least 2 objectives of every kind, and the game is fun again!

[@MozilloGames]

I quite liked Takenoko, personally, I've played it with my sister and then also with my brother and his partner as well and it became pretty cutthroat. Your argument that you don't know what people's objectives are is like saying the same thing for Ticket to Ride. There was nothing more entertaining than watching my brother's partner desperately try and get enough tiles with 4 pink bamboo on, to see the excitement pop up on her face when someone else creates this scenario and then the dread to arrive as that immediately gets eaten by the panda. It's not the most thrilling game, no, but it's definitely a little fun. The main complaint I'd have about the objectives is that some can seem almost impossible with higher number of players. When you need to get the aforementioned 4 tiles each with X amount of bamboo on them, the lack of control you have can see these tiles you're focused on fluctuate rapidly around what you want but never landing on it as people move the gardener and panda for their own reasons. Meanwhile, getting 4 bamboo on a single tile with the no panda thing could be surprisingly easy. The same can be said for the objectives that rely on the placement of patterns of tiles as well and my brother managed to win the whole game twice without once placing a single piece of irrigation as he just let other people do the leg work. Oh god, that's most the script I was mentally writing for many moons from today. In short though, Takenoko is quite the fun game for when you've a small gathering and don't want anything too taxing, or it's Christmas and you all have to pretend to get along, but it's not exactly going to compare well to the hardcore games that'll make even some of the more die hard board game fans weep.

[@nERVEcenter117]

Seems like something you could house rule. Draw six to eight objectives, and place them publicly for all players to compete for, each one exclusive to the first person to score it. Suddenly, it’s a strategic brain-burner.

[@vazzaroth]

Love this review. I feel like Takenoko isn't that great of a game, but few people want to come out and say it. It's very pretty, it's cute, it feels pretty fun to play for a few games. It's good for casual gaming. But examining the actual game design makes it fall apart. It's really just a race in the end. I've basically never seen anyone win unless they were the first to finish their objectives. And if you're just going to play a casual, not-that-competitive nice looking game, I think Tokaido fills that much better.

[@janstehlik8713]

its a game about open source. It teaches kids that while you chase your own goals the open source resource can grow.

[@yofdldlek]

What do i do with the 2 big panda plates? Are they decoration only next to the green/pink/yellow plates? And i got only 10 of 11 green plates, are all needed for balance?

[@pm71241]

Reviewing board games is hard... but I'd love to be guinea pig in the playtest group for SU&SD

[@Ashcombeguy]

Here’s a drinking game; have a swig every time Matt says either “game” or “games”. XD

[@dancingfishfilms]

Old Matt, what a wonderful Matt

[@ukalaili2450]

Takenoko is the first game I ever bought. I play it with my partner and we both love it. If you like the art style but want something a little more challenging try Tokaido. Its another great game and is very pretty to look at :)

[@SpaceGravy]

Now to be fair, I really did want a second game before realising I didn't want a third. Could a house rule to show some or all of your cards save it?

[@LaughingOwl10]

The very first move shown at 0:33 is an illegal move. The panda must move in a straight line unless a storm was rolled.

[@JosephLachh]

I was searching for tokaido. I found this. What if you just play the game pretending that the rule is that you need to keep your tasks open for everyone to see?

[@AdamLichfield]

This was a good assessment. I played the game, and thought it was beautiful, but dull. This review puts into words what I couldn't figure out for myself. I have a better grasp now of why it doesn't work for me.

[@lipinskimax]

Cute - agree, boring - disagree. You can interact by limiting options for players by moving panda in places where move will not give them anything. Playing more will allow you to learn garden missions and gardner tasks that gives many points so you may act to do what you need and prevent someone from completing their tasks. I understand it may not be your style, but it is not fully accurate review :)

[@bythesea__________________1708]

You are so funny and so british and I wanna say thankyou for making me smile. 😘

[@hadlee73]

Matt's reviews are often hit and miss, and in this instance he took up the bat, swung at the ball, and not only missed but swung the bat so far around himself that he clubbed himself on the face. To outright say this is bad game when so many love and adore it is just misguided. Sure, people are welcome to their opinions and preferences when it comes to board gaming, but the fact that this review is trying to convince people that the game is just bad and not worth buying, is frankly disappointing.

[@venarez7484]

having played after a few beer sit was ok and got completed (more complex games tend to devolve into chat and "what were we doing again?"). From what Matt was saying though it sounds like the game would be instantly improved by having all your objectives on show, a quick fix that does sound like it would make the game better, i never understood why the objectives were secret

[@KindredBrujah]

Because knowing that you cannot win with half the game still to go is completely shit?

[@venarez7484]

KindredBrujah you don't need to have your objectives on show to know that

[@KindredBrujah]

Perhaps not, but it makes the chances considerably greater. It's a lot less frustrating to find out right at the end that you didn't have any chance than having to sit through half an hour of a game where you know you can't win and you're just going through the motions or, worse yet, playing Kingmaker to the other players.

[@venarez7484]

KindredBrujah it's not sounding great either way now :-/ I was pondering if some kind of objective pool would make it more exciting? You start with 3 hidden objectives and when you complete one you take one from the available pool of say 5 cards which in turn is then replaced with a new one.

[@KindredBrujah]

That could work. That's pretty much how TI works - some secret, some public. In respect to Takenoko though, it really isn't as difficult as Matt made out to work out what other players are trying to achieve. Or not in my experience anyway (I've only played it a few times, but nonetheless).

[@eljayplay]

So, if you house rule that all objective cards in hand must be laid out in front of each player, face-up, is the game fun? It seems to me as though it would be, according to your description and opinions of the game mechanisms. If you don't try this, I will--if I ever run into anyone who owns a copy of Takenoko...

[@RowantarotBlogspot]

Nope. My husband and I love this game. We really enjoy it, and have our little phrases, for example when the thunderstorm roll comes up and the panda runs, we always shout, 'Lightning!!! Ru-u-u-u-u-un!' And whenever we trade in bamboo pieces we say we're playing a poop card. And unless they were being uncharacteristically polite, the gaming group we sometimes attend enjoyed playing it with us when we brought it in. :)

[@Martian81]

I don’t normally disagree with these guys cos I think they’re awesome. But this is a hard disagree. Takenoko literally got me into board games, we always want to play it again and again

[@guillermoz4914]

SUSD you guys are great but I wonder if you guys just recently played this game that's been out for a few years now? I ask because it's been praised so much and I wonder with high hopes did you go into Takenoko expecting more and ultimately just telling yourself, "why does everyone love this game?"