Taking a Deeper Dive into the ACC Lawsuits with David McKenzie - FSU, Clemson vs. the ACC

The Big Mountain sat down with David McKenzie for a discussion on the ACC Lawsuits.
We discussed Intellectual Property Law (specifically Copyright law in the ACC case), Exit Fees vs Unenforceable Penalties, Sovereign Immunity, Statute of Limitations, and David gave his thoughts on whether this case could go Federal and how close he thinks we are to a settlement.
We want to give a HUGE thank you to David for taking a lot of his time to sit down with us on The Big Mountain! Be sure to follow David on X as he continues to follow these lawsuits closely.
Find David on -
X: @McKenzieLaw
LinkedIn: mckenziedavid
The Big Mountain is your trusted place for updates on the ACC Lawsuits as we keep the conversation going!
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#ACCfootball #clemsonfootball #fsufootball

[@505premoto]

He cites the Troy v Farmer case to establish the fact that FSU does business in NC. Very poor choice. Troy OPENED a business office in NC, INCORPORATED in NC, had a REGISTERED AGENT in NC, APPLIED for a business license in NC and ran a DAY TO DAY business in NC. Exactly which of those things did FSU do in NC? The answer is NONE. Zero correlation. As has been pointed out repeatedly here, disagree with him on anything and he will block you.

[@kingspleen2152]

The Taylor Swift ticket example was not a good one in my opinion. The ACC has not pre-paid FSU, nor any school, for future games. Also, FSU is also alleging the ACC isn’t doing what they agreed to in the contract with FSU. So prepaying for Swift tickets at Beyonce’s price doesn’t really apply here. Also disagreeing with your guest isn’t just about our “narrative”. There are facts omitted in some statements and they may not have a much weight as we think, they have weight that should not be disregarded.

[@Almighty5-ww1kl]

So is it fair for the ACC to forum shop when FSU hadn’t even filed they only had a meeting that was open to the public but FSU is wrong to ask for sovereign immunity

[@elliottcrews4997]

You are beating a dead horse. The rightful place for the case to be heard is NC and sovereign immunity is a red herring.

[@gustavovz8431]

Sure it is. That's why it took bledsoe 76 pages to explain keeping the case on NC. Notwithstanding the fact that acc provided zero actual evidence of compliance with it's own rules

[@LoCoVANole]

McKenzie comes across as too emotionally invested. He calls the legal “balls and strikes” as he sees them, but FSU’s exit will not come down to who has the better arguments - any lawyer who practices knows that the legal issues are only a point of leverage and not the be all end all. FSU will pay more to get out than has been let on and the ACC’s litigation funding is not limitless. In the end (within 2 years, in my opinion), FSU will get out of the conference and end up in a more favorable financial position than it currently finds itself (in all likelihood the B1G). The real question is what happens to the ACC at large and the “Tobacco Road” heritage and pride that’s at the heart of McKenzie’s take. While his legal assessments MAY end up being correct, his emotional tone and anti-FSU slant suggests he knows full well that FSU will get what it wants at the expense of his beloved ACC.

[@TheBigMountainPodcast]

Fair enough comment. Thx for the view.

[@mikesheridan2]

Wait.. Does McKenzie envision a scenario where FSU/Clemson leave the ACC for another conference and the ACC will continue to produce and broadcast home games through ESPN and Pay the colleges for those games? That is just not reality and it is in fact crazy... If a school leaves they lose their cut of conference revenue... So how does McKenzie imagine that the schools will continue to get paid for their Rights?

[@mikefredd3390]

Did I hear him say that states sovereign immunity is anachronistic?

[@davidkreitzer4401]

This man did understand the absolute reality that a cap on damages can happen even if he hates the idea. He definitely doesn't understand how willing Florida is to do whatever it wants. The ACC should save a gazillion dollars in attorneys fees and figure out what the FSU figure will be.

[@shallojalloh]

Doug Rohan disagrees with your assessment, Mr. MacKenzie. You're the guy who claimed that venue doesn't matter in thr FSU n ACC lawsuits. That didn't agree well sir.

[@TheBigMountainPodcast]

And that is why we have had both on. It’s good to hear different views. Not on side is 100% correct here.

[@shallojalloh]

@@TheBigMountainPodcast| Yea. You guys are not wrong at all. But this guys is clearly biased. Its quite obvious. With Rohan....hes a FSU alumni and fan but he clearly aims to not pollute his professional opinion w/ his FSU biases. As a consumer of your content, I understand and see the limitations you guys have w/ regard to challenging the guest with legit follow up questions. But by no stretch of the imagination is it any fault of you 2. Great episode.

[@powell4661]

​Rohan is a workman's comp lawyer. He is an intellectual rights attorney. Copyrights are the issue.

[@shallojalloh]

@powell4661 | MacKenzie isn't boarded in the state of Fl. So he wouldn't know Fl law. Need boarded in thr state of NC. SO He sees law grin that perspective, which pollutes his legal opinion. Also, the NC judge, Blesdoe, ruled on this lawsuit as contract law,not intellectual property law. It was Doug Rohan who spoke on that well before the NC judge w decided to rule. The stare of Fl new it was IP law. The FL judge, Cooper, is the states leading judge on IP. You might wanna do your research.

[@richardbrookins5406]

@@powell4661 Excuse me but I think they all sit for the same bar exam.

[@throwback_850]

man said FSU is an unreliable contract partner 😂😂 Yeah ok pal no other conference has decades on the TV deal…but the ACC

[@elliottcrews4997]

I bet if the Pac12 could go back in time they would have signed a 20 year media deal rather than the short term one.

[@Thachadnwf]

When does the conference have to answer for its miss management of the conference.taking bad deals etc etc

[@505premoto]

He says that the exit fee of $130m is a pittance. Hmm…interesting. How much is the exit fee for the B1G? Zero. Curious as to how he would explain the disparity. You should ask him.

[@gustavovz8431]

Exactly. And the exit fee for the sec is between 35-40. It's just painfully obvious that the ACC is just trying to hold on to its two premiere programs just to make money out of them for their own benefit not for the FSU and Clemson.

[@elliottcrews4997]

That's simple. With the revenue the P2 generate why would any school willingly leave. You don't need an exit fee if no one is a threat to exit.

[@richardbrookins5406]

@@elliottcrews4997 The ACC could have made it a P3 if they had done what was promised to FSU when they joined. Instead one commissioner enriched his family and his replacement is just taking his check for as long as he can. His reaction (or lack thereof) when FSU was denied their spot in the CFP shows that he does not care about the individual teams. Phillips needs to be fired and a commissioner hired that has the interest of ALL the teams first and foremost. The conference will grow with a leader like that instead of withering on the vine like it is doing now. Hell the Big12 is now a better conference that the ACC. WTH??

[@elliottcrews4997]

@@richardbrookins5406 You are spouting the FSU party line. It's like a broken record and is highly bias perspective.

[@505premoto]

@@elliottcrews4997 Don’t tell David McKenzie. He thinks that $130m is too cheap to escape the magnificent ACC. A school would PAY that much to a P2 to get IN.

[@Doc_Boots]

I appreciate hearing alternative perspective even when it is one I hope to be incorrect. I think Judge Bledsoe would agree with this perspective based on NC law. I also think Judge Cooper and AG Moody would disagree with this assessment based on Florida law. Just hammers home that we have a long way to go in all this. I just hope we can actually start the case and hear the facts and interpretations and quit stalling with venue arguments. If the ACC (or FSU) had a slam dunk open and shut case, we might be done with the case by now and not still fighting over venue

[@TheBigMountainPodcast]

Great comment and as you know, we are about the conversation - agree or disagree.

[@richardbrookins5406]

This was an interesting show and thanks for doing it. Your guest obviously leans more toward the ACC then the two unruly children but then again he is looking at things through the NC state laws and not Florida statues. I disagree about the remoteness of a settlement because eventually the contract (both Media and GOR) will be made public in Florida and ESecPN will not allow that. He appears to refuse to acknowledge that the ACC has become a second rate conference and the leadership is okay with that. I do not believe that that is what FSU signed up for. Oh and I would have had more respect for the guest if he was not the one to sue to prevent the UNC board to meet in closed session.

[@user-pl4hh9rb6t]

Agree, but the fact that he took on the UNC board shows Mackenzie is tough as nails. He is a homer but tough as nails and ballsy

[@TheBigMountainPodcast]

Appreciate your view and comment.

[@elliottcrews4997]

So you are saying that the Board of Trustees should illegally meet in closed session? There are open meetings laws in NC and they were about to violate them had he not taken issue with that. It seems to me like he was doing everyone a solid. Don’t we all want as much transparency as is possible when it comes to the actions of our government?

[@B1GNole]

Im not a lawyer but i stayed at a holiday Inn express, this guy is ridiculous. If the ACC is so high and mighty add WHOEVER and let Fsu drown in it's own misery! We all know why the NC schools are holding on, contracts are broken EVERYDAY! Its funny that for Fsu to be so irrelevant to people in college football it sure takes alot of so called smart and powerful people to share the opinions about everything they do! No other team gets this treatment and its obvious the weight this move will make for FSU! Imagine what would happen if Fsu had the budget of the Buckeyes or Alabama! The ACC is dead and holding onto anything when they could've prevented this instead of making backroom deals with Raycomm like idiots!

[@davidbrown386]

I am a Penn State guy ( so I have no “Dog In The Hunt”). But I enjoy Big Mountain for unbiased coverage of college football issues. But I could not continue to listen because he sounded like a Stephen A. Smith/Bob Costas type arrogant individual ( not the least bit humble). ps. Could you do a story on the PSU BOT approving the Beaver Stadium renovation?

[@gustavovz8431]

Tobacco road arrogance on full display.

[@woodybortner5583]

He's wrong about the acc by laws state Clemson and FSU wouldn't receive payments from those games after leaving the conference

[@seminoldschool7032]

lol he’s wrong about 85% of the things he discussed

[@trick7884]

​@@seminoldschool7032he's correct about a lot. He just ignores a lot of the other fact that either weaken his argument and/or renders it irrelevant

[@seminoldschool7032]

@@trick7884 …except he literally isn’t🤷🏻‍♂️😂

[@jafuscavil6300]

Excellent Interview! Extremely Informative!

[@TheBigMountainPodcast]

Much appreciated!

[@davidjorgensen8635]

Part of the issue with the ACC contract is the ACC contract for some reason does not state that legal issue will be resolved in NC. Example Bid 12 has it in there contract that all legal issue will be dealt with in Texas. B1G will be handled in Chicago (Rosemont) IL. The ACC left it open-ended and now they are paying for it.

[@TheBigMountainPodcast]

Yes, Choice of forum is a glaring omission in this contract.

[@davidjorgensen8635]

Also love the new point that FSU has brought up in the new filing, If ACC/ESPN hold the media rights of the current schools, why does the media rights put a minimum number of schools (15) in the contract? If you own the rights even if they leave, who cares if they leave? Why put a minimum number?

[@TheBigMountainPodcast]

We will be digging into that later this week. That’s a solid question to raise. We are also planning another guest for next week.

[@elliottcrews4997]

I would assume the minimum number it because of the need for a certain amount of content. A 10 or 12 member conference couldn’t provide nearly as much sports content as a 15 or 18 member conference.

[@davidjorgensen8635]

@@elliottcrews4997 That's the issue, if you have the media rights of a school even if they leave, you still have their content. If Florida State Leaves but you still have their media rights, you lose no inventory, so why put anything about a minimum in the contract? That is what Florida State put in their new filing.

[@tomsmithdeal775]

@@elliottcrews4997 Precisely. The ESPN agreement states a minimum number of schools. It does NOT specify which schools. That is to ensure ESPN that there will be enough games to broadcast. And that is exactly why the ACC added the three new schools as they correctly guessed that some schools were leaving. The “necessary” clause in the agreement is for that purpose and that purpose only. The only thing that ESPN is requiring from the ACC is enough inventory to satisfy the requirement. Nothing else. The ACC is trying to say that ESPN requires the GOR to be for the life of the contract. It does not. It only requires for ESPN to have exclusive rights as long as a school remains in the conference.

[@PWB1280]

Well done, guys! Another great interview! 🎉

[@TheBoroDawg]

Good info … HOWEVER he blocks everyone on twitter. I have never tweeted at him and I’m blocked. Stay off social media if you don’t want to be social. He is an a$$

[@505premoto]

He would be very happy to be friends with you. All you have to do is agree with him on everything. Now, that’s not such an unreasonable request is it?

[@John-qs8rw]

Acc/ NC crony, definitely not considering both sides of the argument. I believe he is propped up by ACC to be the public mouthpiece for their argument

[@gustavovz8431]

Guys I'm a big fan of your show and I think it's great that you have someone like this fella on and as is evident from his conversation he is completely and totally pro ACC and everything he does is color toward that. If you notice his demeanor is dripping with disdain for FSU and it's funny that you guys asked people to join this guy on Twitter because he will block you at the drop of a hat if you dare disagree with his super genius legal conclusions. This guy Mackenzie being a lawyer doesn't change the fact that it's just his opinions and that's all it is because what matters is the people who actually have significant experience in contracts litigation commercial litigation otherwise it's just one person's opinion and it's going to be tainted as you can see from this guy's discussion

[@elliottcrews4997]

You are obviously an FSU or Clemson fan. Did you miss the part where he pointed out he grew up in Clemson, or that when he sympathized with big brand school's situation. How about the years of experience he has in this type of legal work?

[@gustavovz8431]

@@elliottcrews4997 right only to make the same arguments over and over again of how FSU is going to lose, how Clemson is going to lose blah blah blah so yeah the guy is definitely an ACC Homer We're talking about complex contract and commercial litigation, areas which this guy acknowledged he has no experience

[@elliottcrews4997]

@@gustavovz8431 No experience? Intellectual property / copyright work is contract and commercial litigation! This guy has years of experience.

[@gustavovz8431]

@@elliottcrews4997 I'm not sure where the disconnect is with this but this particular case strictly revolves around the contract between the ACC and FSU and Clemson this has nothing to do with any copyright issues

[@karenbuchan1]

Elliot what’s your favorite team?

[@user-ot2in8kc1l]

The commercial activity that the GOR specifically identifies is the home games. The GOR and all payments to FSU is based on “home games”. They don’t get paid for away games (wake Forest, Duke, UNC, etc -those teams do). So, the commercial activity in question, is what Judge Cooper stated is the taking of the rights and payment for Tallahassee games.

[@Almighty5-ww1kl]

FSU last season in the ACC will be 26

[@shallojalloh]

This is guy is the guy who said venue doesn't matter with regard to the ACC v FSU lawsuits.

[@TheRealJackMcCoy]

Incredibly strong but the unenforceable penalty. lol

[@lukefletcher4689]

Great Show!

[@daviddejesus5376]

I'm taking receipts

[@Doc_Boots]

The further this plays out, the less I grasp the ACC’s true goals with these cases. What are they actually fighting for? 1. Is their ultimate goal to hold several universities hostage for over a decade in an extremely hostile and unhappy business arrangement that grows even more sour as years pass? 2. Is it simply squeezing every possible cent from anyone trying to leave and if so, why not just state that number? 3. Is it a stalling approach to ensure this drags out past February of 2025?

[@TheBigMountainPodcast]

All 3 are certainly plausible options.

[@TheRealJackMcCoy]

Newsflash there is a lack of vision by the ACC conference lol. What’s the ultimate goal?

[@gustavovz8431]

Excellent points and I am with you. Ultimately all the mumbo jumbo aside you can't expect any entity to continue in lopsided contract where you are ultimately forced into irrelevancy just to keep feeding the bottom feeders to the detriment of your own School.

[@elliottcrews4997]

Obviously the goal is to hold FSU and Clemson to the contract they willingly signed twice. This doesn't have to be with them remaining in the ACC. It can also be in them buying back their rights from the contract. I don't know how much more straight forward it could be?

[@gustavovz8431]

​​​​@@elliottcrews4997 yep and that's exactly what they are litigating the contract. Contracts are not static and in this particular case to continue to the contract's logical conclusion will result in both Clemson and FSU becoming nationally irrelevant. I'm absolutely sure if the school you supported was in that position you would be screaming to to get out of that ridiculous contract

[@trick7884]

He wasn't as awful as he often is. And I generally agree with most of what he says. It's just, he ALWAYS excludes key FSU and Clemson arguments that make his points irrelevant. For example, being so proud of himself for pointing out statute of limitations when neither FSU nor Clemson are trying to breach the GoR or have it nullified. They want the GoR to be properly interpreted by the courts based on the contact's actual language and not what the acc claims it suggests. It also completely blows his "FSU and Clemson can't get out of a contract just because market conditions changed" argument out of the water. Because they aren't trying to "get out" of the deal at all. FSU and Clemson want the contract enforced, because, by its own language, it never granted their future rights to the acc (or espn) once they withdraw from the acc (i.e., no more "contractual obligations" to "fulfill the espn agreement"). He makes a spectacle out of sovereign immunity. I don't think FSU believes that's their strongest argument. But FSU is damn sure going to use every option it has to get the legal outcome it desires, and that means fervently playing even your weakest hands. Also, his point that all state entity contracts in Florida would become completely void - at the sole discretion of the state entity - due to enacting sovereign immunity is total bull 💩. If FSU wins because of sovereign immunity - and it won't - future contracts would merely insert language stating that the Florida party "expressly waives sovereign immunity". PROBLEM SOLVED. This doomsday scenario he describes is a compete red herring scare tactic. I think he misunderstood JY's question about past games vs future games. To be fair, I also was a little confused by the first part (past games) until it continued by mentioning future games. Not a big deal but i see how the question kind of confused him/was hard to follow. That said not sure his concert ticket example is all that accurate. Espn didn't pre-pay the acc through 2036. But regardless, it's just another example of his irrelevant "they're just upset because market conditions changed" talking point. (While it's true they're upset about that, that's not the crux of their legal argument.) I also like how he said he'll get blasted on Twitter for his comments. What a joke. That mofo blocks anybody who disagree with him or presents a counter argument to his claims, no matter how innocuous the reply is.

[@TheBigMountainPodcast]

Great comment. Yes, express waiver would need to be given moving forward. Fairly easy remedy for future contracts, IF, as you say SI is a winning argument. Yes, he missed the second part of JYs comment regarding the hypo of a bands contract with a record company, but it’s all good.

[@gustavovz8431]

Your legal analysis far exceeds what McKenzie can cobble together.... excellent work!

[@LoCoVANole]

FSU and Clemson - as the premier football powers in the conference - have landed a fatal blow on the ACC. No matter what ends up transpiring with the litigations (and how long they take), it’s safe to say both will end up in the P2 and remain competitive power programs going forward. On a related note, it is sad to watch the “Tobacco Road” heritage diminish before our very eyes. It’s truly one of the more unfortunate casualties of the evolving college football power structure. Mr. McKenzie seems like a fine lawyer but one senses the pain and frustration he’s enduring watching his beloved ACC culture come crashing down. No doubt this clouds his judgment and takes on the matter - his tone and demeanor say it all. The harsh (and unfortunate) truth is that basketball and other revenue sports do not match the remarkable and ever-growing value of college football. Programs like UNC, Duke, Kansas and others will in all likelihood take on tier 2 status in the evolving P2 framework. While the P2 may end up accommodating some of these programs, they will only serve as chum to the alphas in both the SEC and B1G. What remains to be seen is how basketball and other sports fare within the coming landscape. The internal struggles and financial problems in Chapel Hill make this all the more evident.

[@SpecialK32]

Okay I am 24 minutes in a see a lot of flaws in the points. I am not an attorney lol but here is what I see. 1.) When FSU signs a contract, the other party can request they expressly waive it. Sraye law says it cannot be implyly waived. So any future parties that contract with FSU or any Florida company could request this be waived and expressly spell out how any litigation should go. 2.) FSU is suing because the ACC has not lived up to its contracheal terms and have allowed the acc and it's members fall behind its counter parts. ACC had a winning record in football amd how did the acc parlay that in the latest cfp negotiations? It folded like a chair. 2.) Who is taylor swift and who is the fan in your analogy? If FSU is taylor swift, she can just refund whatever money that has already been spent. If fsu os the fan then they can just sell the tickets and go. 3.) Dave Chappelle analogy. He could have quit the show and went elsewhere just like fsu can quit the acc and go elsewhere. Both analogies kind of don't apply 4.) Failed to mention that the statute of limitations can be extended if fraud has been found. This possibility increase if the case gets to discovery.

[@TheBigMountainPodcast]

1. Good point and correct. 2. Argumentative 4. Correct, in the event fraud is proven

[@timothyblack3322]

I wish I could have been here to ask a couple or more questions. I’m your favorite Seminole & your source on the Unique Authority on matters of Governance, matters of State & Local Entities, Matters surrounding Elections, Review’s & Corrections made to District lines drawn by the Florida Legislature that rest within the 2nd Judicial Circuit located in Leon County aka Tallahassee Florida. All rulings/judgments that fall within this framework: Do not go to the Court of Appeals in Tallahassee. They go straight to the Florida Supreme Court. The reason I mentioned this again, or gave further context was due to him specifically saying Court of Appeals. They have no say in this matter. Florida State University is not seeking to leave on Strictly on Sovereign Immunity. Judge Cooper wants that in the Complaint to ensure the ACC/FSU Case happens in Tallahassee. Judge Cooper ordered the 120 days of Mediation for a purpose. Suggesting both parties make use of the time period the Court has given. I only know of one side of the mediation and that is Florida State offered a $350 million offer. The ACC scoffed at that figure. I will touch base with you guys tomorrow. Timothy in Tallahassee ✌🏼

[@TheBigMountainPodcast]

Thx for the comment Tim, as always. Would love to have you on a live ep!

[@MP99.]

You guys know This guy blocked damned near the entire FSU fanbase on X the last week or so. You recommended follow him but you can't unless you are outside of the FSU dome.

[@gustavovz8431]

Lol...Mr. know it all has been blocking Noles as soon as he started spouting his clichéd faux legal opinions. He's an arrogant tool.

[@TheBigMountainPodcast]

We understand that he can run his accounts as he deems fit. We can’t really provide further comment on that.

[@gustavovz8431]

@@TheBigMountainPodcast no worries man. It's all good. You've got a great show. I'm a big fan. You guys are fair, respectful, upbeat and honest!!

[@TheBigMountainPodcast]

Appreciate it

[@tjbean6472]

"There is NO question that this agreement will be interpreted under NC law." I'd encourage all to bookmark this vid and revisit it when it's all said and done. Dude has no idea whether or not the ACC & ESPN are living up to the promises they made in this contract. Yet he speaks as if he does. He's pulling his opinions out of his a$$. If anyone can present any evidence to the contrary, feel free to do so. Good luck with that.

[@TheBigMountainPodcast]

That isn’t just David’s opinion, it is also Judge Bledsoe’s. We will see where this goes.

[@gustavovz8431]

​@@TheBigMountainPodcastrespectfully, bledsoe's decision on was over 74 pages! He had to go through a great many contortions and gyrations to not dismiss the case. The acc violated it's own rules and filed without any evidence of compliance then 6 weeks later, the ACC "cures" it's deficiency. Unbelievable.

[@gustavovz8431]

​​@@TheBigMountainPodcastbledsoe did maintain jurisdiction. But it took him seventy six pages to do so. He had to go thru contortions to keep the case.

[@jcfilms4433]

This guy sued the University of North Carolina. He’s invested in seeing UNC stay in the ACC.

[@user-ot2in8kc1l]

This is the same guy that filed the grievance s UNC board of trustees to prevent them from having a “closed door” meeting about their athletics department audit / finances?

[@scrappinwolf220]

It's the epitome of arrogance that this attorney insinuated himself into something he is not a party to, nor is it any of his business....

[@elliottcrews4997]

It is.

[@elliottcrews4997]

@@scrappinwolf220 Why is that arrogant and none of his business? He is a taxpayer in the state of North Carolina. He pays tuition (which is affected in the form of student fees) for his son to attend UNCCH. North Carolina has a public hearing law that limits what and when discussions can be conducted in private. He clearly has a vested interest in a Board of Trustees hearing regarding athletic department business.

[@scrappinwolf220]

@@elliottcrews4997 Yes it is arrogance

[@tomsmithdeal775]

@@scrappinwolf220Have to disagree. Virtually ANY member of the public in a state has the right to force any state entity to follow the law. That’s arrogance? According to who? On what grounds?

[@user-pl4hh9rb6t]

Took some serious rocks to come on this show. I respect that s#@t. I will grant the bro that he is smart. also raises some points I haven't really thought of. But he is clearly biased . . . Duke grad, lives in Tobacco Road, etc. He says nothing about all the mismanagement. Of course he wants the ACC to survive . . . He doesn't want Duke playing Valdosta State . . . But it did take some srs rocks

[@elliottcrews4997]

Did you miss the part where he said he was born and raised in Clemson SC and was a Tigers fan?

[@gustavovz8431]

Or possibly the guy is an arrogant tobacco road sycophant.

[@user-pl4hh9rb6t]

@@elliottcrews4997 No, I thought he said Raleigh.

[@user-pl4hh9rb6t]

@@gustavovz8431 My man, that's harsh. All I said he's biased . . . smart but really biased and doesn't want Duke playing Valdosta or East Car

[@elliottcrews4997]

@@user-pl4hh9rb6t He was born and raised in Clemson SC, he is a Duke grad, has a son at UNCCH, a son that will be applying to WF, cousins (?) that went to FSU, grandfather that went to NCSU, parents both went to VT and he currently lives in Raleigh.

[@Mr.Ed_Wayner]

WildUte on the Big12 Mafia channel ran numbers and says for the remaining ACC schools to be made whole by FSU & Clemson, they would be around $292 M each.

[@richardbrookins5406]

Yeah its funny how much money the lower ranked schools make off of FSU and Clemson. No wonder why they don't want to leave the teat.

[@Mr.Ed_Wayner]

Great guest get!

[@steveharriman7128]

Thanks for joining us David! For our FSU fans, I do believe it is important to hear differing opinions in order to have a broader perspective on the case. - TMB Steve

[@gjohnson320]

So according to him, the ACC committing fraud against the state of FL in the Raycom deal (not to mention failure to negotiate in good faith) can never be challenged in court when discovered because statute of limitations trumps all arguments. The level of denial with some of these people who will never acknowledge the legitimacy of provable facts.

[@user-pl4hh9rb6t]

Fraud? where is that?

[@gjohnson320]

@@user-pl4hh9rb6t The ACC represents institutions on their behalf to negotiate the maximum value for those institutions. We know that the ACC sold tv rights to Raycom, where schools lost millions per year, and the commissioners son made millions for spearheading that sweetheart deal. That deal also caused permanent damage by making games largely unavailable and drying up national exposure for years. This is the fraud that we know of due to investigations and we haven’t even begun discovery yet.

[@benjaminhawkes6693]

It is hyperbolic to suggest that no one would want to contract with FSU or the state because of sovereign immunity. It is waived in Florida, by law, if the contract was properly signed. FSU argues it wasn't. Constuctive agreements aren't found where the proper authority to a contract is publically listed... and constuctive agreements do not waive sovereign immunity. FSU cannot survive in the ACC. CANNOT. It is mostly relegated already and things will only get worse, across sports.

[@TheBigMountainPodcast]

Actually, that isn’t their argument in the second amended complaint. They are arguing SI straight up. We will get an episode out in that tomorrow.

[@benjaminhawkes6693]

@@TheBigMountainPodcast Cooper made the suggestion... in court... don't be shocked if it comes up somewhere, however you feel it is or isn't covered in the complaint.

[@TheBigMountainPodcast]

Understood

[@Nick_L_Mangia]

Horrible choice for a guest fellas. This guy is as biased as can be and filed an injunction so UNC couldn’t discuss the athletics during a BOT meeting.

[@TheBigMountainPodcast]

While we understand that you didn’t appreciate this episode, many others did. We try and give different flavors and views, none of which are perfect or fully flawed.

[@Nick_L_Mangia]

@@TheBigMountainPodcast I understand. I appreciate other views on things as well, but this particular individual has shown bias in the situation and blocks FSU fans for engaging with him. I do appreciate the videos y’all do, and hopefully FSU will be up in State College in the coming years to give Steve’s Nittany Lions a nice L. :-)

[@TheBigMountainPodcast]

👍😉

[@user-pl4hh9rb6t]

Agreed, but do think that took some srs nads to sue UNC and come on this show, but yeah he's biased and is a FSU hater

[@edbrooks9540]

You have a very biased guest

[@elliottcrews4997]

Sometimes when someone just sits in an echo chamber, when they step out and hear things that don't fit their narrative they mistake that for bias.

[@karenbuchan1]

@@elliottcrews4997you should try it elliott

[@trick7884]

He wasn't as bad as normal But he continues to ignore the stronger arguments FSU and Clemson have made

[@trick7884]

​@@elliottcrews4997coming from someone who sits in their own echo chamber

[@elliottcrews4997]

@@trick7884 no echo chamber for me, I watch the B12 mafia, FSU no slaw boy, all sorts of channels that very much support the defections and revel in the belief that the ACC should and will die.

[@505premoto]

He is dead right when he says that Florida State is a completely unreliable contract partner. Fortunately for the ACC there is a specific provision in the Bylaws that covers this type of situation. The ACC has the express right to bring action against any school that brings shame and dishonor to the conference. The ACC can bring charges against FSU and, with a 3/4 majority of the members, kick them out of the conference. As it has been clearly evidenced by this attorney, the ACC would not be taking their responsibilities seriously if they did not commence action against FSU to separate them from the conference. The ACC could levy a $10m fine to cover the administrative cost and deduct it from the $39.1m that the ACC owes FSU for 2023. That course of action should commence immediately.

[@gustavovz8431]

You do realize that FSU has propped up this conference since they entered and Clemson has as well. especially in the last 10 12 years. The college football landscape has changed massively very recently necessitating these actions. Neither school is going to be tethered to a contract that merely supports the non-performers and ultimately leads to the two schools' irrelevance.

[@elliottcrews4997]

@@gustavovz8431 When FSU joined the ACC basketball was king and FSU was a drag on the conference.

[@gustavovz8431]

​​@@elliottcrews4997too funny. In actuality, football is the revenue generator.

[@elliottcrews4997]

@@gustavovz8431 you didn't read what I typed. In 1991, when FSU joined the ACC basketball was the greater revenue generator. FSU basketball was awful and while they've improved their competitiveness they can't even fill their arena on a regular basis. The ACC enabled FSU to build up their overall athletic program and their academic position. While they have carried the conference in football, it hasn't been a one way street. They have benefited greatly from being in the ACC.

[@richardbrookins5406]

@@elliottcrews4997 Damn, I don't remember it like that but then again I lived through it.

[@elliottcrews4997]

Another outstanding episode. McKinzie offers important legal expertise to the discussion. It is funny reading the FSU comments here, just as would be expected. So many have a very hard time accepting that the stronger legal position is with the ACC. 😂😂

[@TheBigMountainPodcast]

Thx Elliott. We were very happy to have David join us for this one. Glad you enjoyed it.

[@alexjackard6198]

I get on Twitter once every 5 years…I look him up to see what he was saying and I’m blocked …really? Pound sand dude

[@fsujl11]

sovereign immunity is the weakest argument and most fsu fans that follow this know this. Its just another thing the ACC has to defend and spend money on

[@TheBigMountainPodcast]

It seems weak. But Judge Cooper made this a fairly large part of his hearing. Maybe it’s just fodder, but he has seemed to suggest this could be an issue for him.

[@shallojalloh]

I see u know little of fl law on sovereign immunity. But I'm glad Judge Cooper disagrees with stance

[@woodybortner5583]

It was the weakest in the NC court for sure but under the way the FL laws read it a huge point because waving it can't be be implied

[@user-ot2in8kc1l]

He’s delusional to think that there won’t be a settlement in this case. Especially, if UNC or other schools join the fight to get out of the ACC.

[@scrappinwolf220]

Go to the Florida Statutes on that, and it will give you more information

[@user-os3kp4xt8w]

Soooo the big mountain decides that it’s a great idea to have a known FSU hater in David McKenzie to speak on its legal process with the ACC?? A person that’s clearly bias, and his recent lawsuit against UNC proves just that.. FSU and Clemson is suing the ACC, but somehow it turned into a “LET’S BASH FSU EPISODE “… Do better if your goal is to remain unbias.

[@TheBigMountainPodcast]

Hearing all sides is important to us, as we have said many times. There is no obligation to agree with any of our guests.