Tales from the Borderlands - Best Moments (Jack Loyalty) P2

[@Tahanok2]

I like to think Jack AI really was on Rhys's side until he connected to the network and found out what happened before he died, driving himself crazy in the process.

[@anastasius3477]

Not to mention he would have also realised his daughter betrayed him and died in defiance of her father

[@fine_ol_chap]

Even though he's a psychopath, it's actually kinda sad he still cares about his daughter so much even though he knows she betrayed him

[@waxerwaer9700]

He cared about her only in a narcissist way. In reality he tortured her to a point where she begged for death.

[@symmetrymilton4542]

He got her hooked on that glowing shit and made her life dependent on it. Not to mention, he had her trapped in that godamn computer room for most of her life. Angel literally DIED cursing him.

[@zgama6511]

His one redeeming quality morality wise was his care for his daughter imo. He locked her up yeah but if you listen to the audio logs in one of the side quests you learn that he did have to do it to keep her and others safe bc she couldn't control her powers. Yeah he used her for sure and had her using so much eridium her body became reliant on it but that doesn't mean he didn't care about her. Keep in mind very little is known about sirens especially in borderlands 2 from my understanding so I think it's logical to assume Jack just didn't know the dangers of pumping his daughter full of eridium. But even if he did he's so delusional he could very well care about his daughter and still do these awful things while thinking it's what's best for her. It's fantastic writing imo especially since you could argue Jack is actually the hero of borderlands 2s story even if his methods were fucked up entirely. Also side note he's not a psychopath they're incapable of caring about anybody but themselves and it's made clear he loved angels mom and was in a genuinely happy relationship with her before angel accidently killed her which sent him down this twisted path. He's narcissistic and completely delusional but definitely not a psychopath. (If that's not enough it's also said I think by moxxie herself that Jack actually was a good guy and treated her okay she only left him bc of his sociopathic tendencies were starting to show at that point and she knew she had to get out of there)

[@oidrops]

@@zgama6511 Yeap. Jack is the hole script of "If you fight monster for long, you too can become one" In the end he just want to keep his daughter safe and finish with all bandits on Pandora.. he just got lost in the process.. Sad history, amazing character.

[@commanderblack5045]

​@@symmetrymilton4542 agree but there a 2 different stories with locking up Angel in a room, in the Borderlands 2 echo log looked it if Jack doesn't care at all and Smoke agressive to Angel while in Borderlands 3 Jack locked up Angel to protect her

[@Mark-Givent]

god I wish there was a full side with Jack and rule Hyperion ending 😩

[@kanrascinematicgaming8687]

I do too. At least as a non-canon secret ending. Sadly most telltale games only end one way no matter how you play it.

[@zgama6511]

Unfortunately telltale never gives us multiple endings it's why they went under unfortunately. People realized your choices don't actually do anything and they became trivial lol. This game was lit though I was hella annoyed siding with Jack and still getting betrayed it honestly didn't make much sense to me why he needed Rhys body when he could put the robot skeleton in anyone's body but it's whatever still a great game 😂

[@Stargun-vj1uh]

@@zgama6511 Way I see it, he didn't want to feel like owing Rhys anything. He saw Rhys, in a...more positive manner than other people, and in his eyes, what greater a "honor" than to BECOME Jack? By lending him your body...and killing you in the process, but let's not dwell on that! I think that's the issue, Jack cares about what Rhys can do, and I do think he may have thought briefly of using Rhys kinda like he did Timothy. Someone to do his work, just this time more like a right hand accountant than a bodyguard double. But, after jacking into the systems, he knows everything about himself again. He's not stuck to Rhys, and he wants a body. At least in Rhys, he has the chance to take over his body at any time. But in the network? There's only one way to get his body, right then, and that's put the skeleton in him. You lose the debt owed to Rhys for getting him there, you get your body back, you get your company back, and you get to keep going where you left off. By all means, there's not a negative for Jack. It's just a matter of if he can do it. He could have put anyone into the skeleton, but I really feel like? Jack actually may have appreciates Rhys's actual body and face enough to just be Jack in his body without needing to change appearance. I dunno. That's me theorizing. Maybe being in Rhys long enough, he wanted Rhys to be his host body and dwelled on that. Whatever the case, it was singlehandedly what made everything fall apart. All it would have taken for a loyal Rhys to keep working with Jack, is for Jack to just find someone else to take over the body of.

[@zgama6511]

@@Stargun-vj1uh Yes but I don't believe Jack really senselessly kills his own people especially those who have proven useful. You can show him full loyalty and yet he still betrays you it doesn't make much sense from the character we've been shown. The best part about Jack was that yeah he's insane but he's not inherently evil. His girlfriend he gave an entire town and Wilhelm he gave entire new bodies to satiate his addiction to cybernetics. (I know there's like deleted dialogue of him saying he poisoned wilhelm before the fight with the vault hunters in borderlands 2 but since that's deleted it's not canon and it still works regardless. Either the vault hunters die to Wilhelm and there's nothing to be concerned with or they kill Wilhelm and bring back the spiked power cell or whatever it was either way jack would win. Wilhelm was also unstable so it's believable jack wouldn't trust his judgement anymore.) Rhys was a part of his company and idolizes jack or at least used to according to Vaughn, Jack has no reason to believe Rhys is against him if you choose to rule Hyperion with him especially after taking his side all game his betrayal comes out of no where and just feels like a cheap way not to have a different ending for the game. You make some good points but it only really makes sense if Rhys were to go against him and unfortunately that's how telltale wrote their games. One correct path and then the path they think no one will take so they put zero thought into it and just have things abruptly change directions to get to where the other path ends. Tales was their best by far for having the least of this for their games and it's still one of my favorites today but the ending was definitely very rushed. I'm pretty sure they were having budget issues with this one so that's probably why although I can't possibly understand how it's literally a point and click adventure game pretty much. Either way I just don't think Jack would do that if Rhys were to take his side all game it just doesn't fit his personality and the character that we've been shown in the previous titles. That along with how telltale makes their other games in similar lazy fashion just make it's easier to see when choices are just that way bc they didn't wanna put in the extra effort or they didn't have the budget. Telltale was honestly such a disappointing company they made killer stories but the gameplay was severely lacking. I realize it's a modern game but baldurs gate 3 has insane levels of diversity in your choices on top of being an already solid game the fact that a double a company could make that and telltale which was I believe a triple a company back in the day couldn't even come close to the level of player choice that that game has is insane. I wouldn't be so harsh on telltale if they had an actual game behind their story but they don't so there is absolutely no reason the story should be so lacking especially when they're so short. If it was a bit better written where Jack had a reason to turn on Rhys no matter what then that'd be fine but unless you just want to do a bad guy playthrough it's literally pointless to side with Jack since he turns on you no matter what. It just leaves you feeling unsatisfied and annoyed bc you spent the whole game doing one thing thinking it'd do something only to have it tell you you should have been the other way the whole time bc the games gonna act like you were anyways. Most of my issues with telltale can be summed up by reading the words they put at the start of every episode, that your choices matter and impact the story. When in reality it's the same story no matter what just with a mildly different coat of paint based on what are supposed to be major choices. Only thing that ever changes is whether or not someone likes you (sometimes the game just has someone who shouldn't hate you hate you for no reason too bc they can't find any other way to progress the plot.), characters will always do what the plot needs them to do rather than what they would actually do, the same plot points from other telltale games getting used (character doesn't like player at first but then one small decision will randomly make them realize the error in their ways and sometimes even when you're an ass to them and don't choose to help them.), dialogue being the same no matter what option you pick (you'd be surprised how not diverse the only gameplay function they have is. You basically have 3 options get right to the point, get right to the point nice version, be a d*ck or you could be silent as always but every one of which a lot of the time results in the same exact dialogue with maybe one or two words in response to whatever way you chose to say usually the same thing. And while on the topic of dialogue diversity I've gotta say they definitely designed it with certain choices in mind for the most picked as rarely is there more than one dialogue option that actually fits what's happening it's either overreact, get something wrong even tho your character should know it's wrong, or somewhat right dialogue option that doesn't say what you think it would say. There's also the issue of not being able to pick the right dialogue bc the plot demands you not be allowed to talk your way out of a situation which happens a lot.), and then finally they just lack endings the games just end without your choices really coming into play and you get no choice to drastically change anything that happens in the story at all. This turned into a bit of a rant against telltale but they are the reason the whole issue with Jack exists in the first place, it's mostly a nitpick for tales but when you've seen it in a bunch of other good stories that they've made too and then see it here it kinda ruins the fun of the game. Tales is thankfully one of their best so i won't trash on the rest of the game bc it can mostly be forgiven it's just the fact that the ending is always gonna be the same that annoys me.

[@manateeman2188]

@@kanrascinematicgaming8687they should’ve done it like Batman season 2 episode 5 where their is 2 different episodes depending on what you say to joker

[@ItsyourboyPenguinboy]

26:15 he was not letting that one slide 😂😂

[@IdostuffsometimesMP]

Man Jack sounds like he would make a great father and a hero but the way he acts is what shapes his title A drop of malice in virtues can warp others perspective

[@thefourthdymensionmusic]

well said. its amazing just how many people we have today who's perspectives are warped.

[@cosmiccandlz377]

He basically tried to Freddy Fazbear everyone, except it’s kinda in reverse. Instead of putting you into a suit, he was gonna put a suit into you.

[@thefourthdymensionmusic]

something something play dead and they might think youre an empty costume.

[@christyshultz6443]

Well in a way it's like Hail on supernatural that just really wanted to spend eternity with Castiel. Except hail was just a little bit scared and sweet and just reacted wrongly jack isn't scared but he wants a body and he wants Rhys forever because he said the dark was lonely and kind of scary.. okay maybe he didn't say scary but you know it's implied just checked and like being there. Honestly I think it's sweet that he wanted to finally spend forever with somebody and yet he just went about it the way the wrong way. Because I didn't want him to be alone..i kept his ai .

[@chebypattern]

They did Rhys dirty in BL3

[@cybershoutmon9741]

If only jack realized he can just digistruct his body and physique onto that robot instead of that crazy idea

[@cybershoutmon9741]

Or do the equivalent of a Humagear

[@zgama6511]

Only part of the game that pissed me off was Jack betraying you for that even if you sided with him all game was so annoying and makes very little sense considering he could literally take any dude and get surgery to look and sound like himself he has zero need for Rhys and it's never explained. (Like seriously it would be no different the body doubles are exact replicas of jack like exactly other than their personalities which wouldn't matter so he doesn't need Rhys at all for that) not to mention Rhys has a prosthetic arm so he'd be losing a fucking limb as well unless they can regrow those which I mean they have machines that bring you back to life if you die in the actual lore of the game so probably but still that's just more work for Jack at that point.

[@codyraugh6599]

​@@zgama6511 it's Jack, also, if you listen to him, Jack was going to do that to EVERYONE, everyone was going to become Handsome Jack, his ultimate gift to them all.

[@zgama6511]

@@codyraugh6599 I've played through every game with Jack in it multiple times and also watched multiple playthroughs of tales as well as beating it 3 different times myself and never once have I heard him mention anything about that. You can give him everything he ever wanted and he still betrays you which isn't like jacks character at all I mean a little but not in this way he's never needlessly killed his ally before Wilhelm happened bc he needed the vault hunters in 2 to bring back the spiked battery thing so he could take down sanctuaries shields. And Wilhelm was a lost cause anyways bc of his addiction he'd have gotten himself killed regardless whereas Rhys (the way I played him at least) was actually useful and got shit done and would have been jacks only real friend considering everyone else was dead or grasping for the power he left behind after he died in 2. I realize this is just telltale being telltale they went bankrupt bc in their choice based games your choices don't matter but still it's worth noting that jacks character in this makes no sense for certain endings. Like I said above jack could do this with literally anyone he wanted and he'd have his body, voice and face back like nothing ever happened yet for whatever reason he decides he wants rhys's body when that doesn't make sense if you side with him all game. I also find it funny that that ending wasn't added since you'd think this franchise would do anything to bring back their fan favorite bad guy (I hope to fuck they don't) and they had the perfect opportunity to let that happen if the player wanted it. I think most people agree telltale games kinda suck bc of this they're fun for the first playthrough but then you do a second and realize the other choices lead to the same exact outcome as the other just with different dialogue. Realistically all they had to do was like 3 or 4 diverse endings for their games where your choices actually take you somewhere different than the others and don't result in the same exact dialogue no matter what you choose especially if you're mean to a character all game and they still talk to you in a friendly way it really ruins the immersion.

[@NoThumbnailGuy]

@@cybershoutmon9741 Kamen rider Zero 1 reference i like it

[@bigcazza5260]

if jack got "shot to death by like five vault hunters" then that means kreig was probably off eating the 2nd wind rakks bbq'd over the lava that keeps coming up

[@bigcazza5260]

i win

[@caveformations1337]

They probably didn't recognize him as a vault hunter, considering he was a psycho.

[@bigcazza5260]

could also imply that melee krieg is the only canon build but if gameplay and lore intertwine then a bandit pistol was kreigs weapon so in code it would count as shooting, i still vote he was having bbq rakkwings @@caveformations1337

[@BrendenTait8858]

To be fair I'd imagine Krieg primarily uses his buzz axe more often than a gun in canon

[@michaelbarkan2994]

I thought that meant the max four players, or the four og vault hunters, plus Lilith since she was there at the moment

[@Arclight104]

Course AI Jack does not have all the originals memories since he was created in the pre-sequel before any of the events of Borderlands 2 kicks off. Of course, once he accessed Helios, he should have known that Angel was missing at least since one would think that the first thing he would do would be to covertly check the status of his Siren Daughter while Rhys was messing around in the office. That being said though, its entirely likely that the real Jack never left a record of Angel's death on Helios and so AI Jack would just have to go with 'missing' for the moment with a need to confirm if dead later mentality.

[@christyshultz6443]

No he remembered.

[@zgama6511]

He knows he was constantly updating his memory thing or whatever it is that makes him the ai. This is most likely Jack just before he goes down to awaken the warrior not pre sequel Jack. (It's definitely not pre sequel Jack btw he has his mask which doesn't happen till the end of that game when he gets scarred and he has memories of the events of the second game and his daughters death he openly talks to Rhys about it in his office and later before you kill him for good talking about how bandits murdered his little girl)

[@Zal-TheBug]

Honestly, I wish there was security footage, that he coulda looked through after Helios went down or something like that, get this version of Jack's actual redemption before death. Something to put em at peace knowing all he was destined for, was for nought, and his own daughter couldn't live to see his own dad destroy himself, and others. Woulda been something... nice.

[@killerpopcorn1848]

Only jack can save the borderlands franchise

[@zgama6511]

No thanks these new writers ruined every other character don't let them ruin Jack too 😂

[@pileofsaltOG]

i actually appreciate the anotations

[@The_Punisher]

Man imagine if New Tales was as good as the original

[@okzazu]

realistically there probably would’ve been another way for jack to come back but y’know. plot.

[@SuppressedSoldat]

It’s as simple as him just making an android of himself and uploading that ai onto it really but we can’t have that. If it’s cannon that he did keep the ai after taking it out then there’s hope for a future title. (Haven’t played the third game so I wouldn’t know if there was anything in there regarding to tales of the borderlands)

[@demonyt6558]

Maybe when the vault hunter kills Jack in bl2 That was a fake double body Jack When the real one still alive

[@meowm.7108]

@@SuppressedSoldat in borderlands 3, you have vaughn leading bandits on pandora, and rhys leading atlas (with zero working for him), as for fiona and sasha, they are nowhere to be seen in b3 (in tales from the borderlands 2 sasha is mentionned, and fiona is a narrator at the end, just like marcus) but nothign about jack AI, even tough we have a dlc about a jack clone (the one we play in the pre sequel)

[@HardDiff]

Still don’t get why he needs Ryze body…he could of just kept some trust and it would of been fine till the vault hunters find out anyways

[@ganadibanprathaban1737]

lazy writing to avoid giving the player options

[@ricardomiles2957]

Because... He's Jack. Even if you choose to be with him all the way through you can't win.

[@40dollhairs]

Nah. He wanted Rhys body in particular because he was linked to the gortys project and he knew he couldn’t access the vault without Rhys.

[@Tywil714]

Or he could have just had one of the scientists to build him s temporary android body to put his ai into and hsve them create a replica of his orignal body

[@40dollhairs]

@@Tywil714 That’s not guaranteed to work and Jack was impatient.

[@Bruhtatochip742]

Could the characters on the side talk any louder over Jack

[@40dollhairs]

Sasha and Fiona secretly hated Rhys and they were using him the whole time. Thats why they dipped right after the vault was opened. He gave up his entire old life and killed almost all of his coworkers in an attempt to protect and be liked by them but it was all for nothing. Jack actually cared about the wellbeing of the employees there (in his own way).. Rhys betrayed jack in the worst way possible because he was so naive and he was being manipulated by two slimy scam artists that used him for financial gain. I can’t stand Sasha and Fiona for these very reasons. Sure, Jack did some very evil things in the past but at least there was a well intentioned cause as his motive. Sashas and Fionas motives were purely based on selfishness, envy and greed. Sasha and Fiona were put on a bounty for a good reason. They were running from their own consequences but expected Jack to face and perish for his own. Sasha and Fiona were wicked slimy hypocrites.. Sasha and Fiona are worse than bandits/Skags. They’re dangerous backstabbers that’ll pull the rug from anyone then play the victim whenever they’re called out for their crimes. Its pathetic. They’re not just villains but they’re the most pathetic kind of villains. Who knows how many lives they ruined. So far we know they ruined August’s, Rhys’s, Hugo’s, Scooters, Vaughn’s, Jack’s, Finch’s, Shade’s, Kronger and The entire Hyperion space stations lives. (or created a chain of events that killed them) Sasha, Felix and Fiona are the most destructive characters in the entire series. Jack was right when he attempted to “shoot at Rhys’s friends” at Atlas. They were worse than bandits. Rhys’s canon loyalty to them was the worst decision he ever made in his entire life.

[@net343]

Jack has experience at being used by “friends”

[@thefourthdymensionmusic]

its pandora. hell, at this point, the whole entire solar system is like this. almost every single person is a bandit in one way or another.