The Virtue of Evidence - with Ex Hare Krishna PRADEEP THAKKAR

PRADEEP THAKKAR is a Talk Beliefs subscriber who got in touch so he could speak about exiting the Hare Krishnas. Pradeep currently lives in Mumbai, India, and has done some very deep thinking about cults, critical thinking, and the virtues of doubt.
With actual footage of Pradeep as a Hare Krishna back in 2008, filmed by the group for their own KZbin channel.
#integrity #beliefs #criticalthinking
LINKS FOR PRADEEP THAKKAR:
Pradeep's Blog: Pradeepfun.blogspot.com
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[@vinniechauhan2062]

Growing up as a Hindu I have learnt that in Hinduism, there are many philosophies and schools of thought so disagreement and contradiction isn't out of the ordinary. As long as there are some relation to the ancient texts it will be kind of accepted. I think this is one of the reasons people can easily compartmentalise various Hindu beliefs. Like with a lot of cults and religions, they require resources to keep sustainable such as funding and followers. In-group volunteers, especially in cults, wouldn't see themselves as being exploited as they are devoted to service or seva. They would also feel privileged to be in that position especially in ashrams. By the way I was brought up in a Hindu household but personally I'm not religious. I align more toward Humanism and also support Humanists UK. I find world wide beliefs systems interesting from a non-believers POV. I see religions as part of human history and started out as a way to explain to world around them. What I do object to is the extraordinary claims being made coupled with the low standard response which is usually a logical fallacy.

[@Pradeep-nv8zl]

Well said. 👍Appreciate your thoughts & time in writing such a detailed comment.

[@ayamatmabrahma9658]

That fact that you say means you know nothing about history and how offensive that is.

[@prajalpi]

@@Pradeep-nv8zlatheism is essentially materialistic monism, no? while advaita is spiritual monism. maybe watch an interview of farhan qureshi, a muslim who became an advaitin. ramana maharsi bases it off of experience

[@pramilathakkar9215]

It needs courage to speak up fearlessly. Thanks for sharing your experiences!

[@Pradeep-nv8zl]

My Cousin's comments.. summarising & adding to this interview: 👍🏼quiet profound and succinct Pradeep. So sorry that you went through these troubles and I am glad that you are such gem of a person at the other end of your experience. I wish I had such clarity of thought. Cliques, clubs and cults are necessary evils and each one of us has to participate but we got to guard against what we put our faith in. As you said very nicely, faith is what we believe in without seeing the proof of its existence and so we have to be careful and be deliberate in what we chose to put our faith in. Be it self, friends, family, religion, nation, government, humanity or the existence/universe. Be open minded and inquisitive but always challenge all authoritative thinking. Thanks for all the advice!🙏🏼

[@coolpanda7132]

Appreciated 👏, but I still have doubt that Yoga, meditation, AUM mantra, the near exact dating of age of universe are all coming from Hinduism and are proved scientifically to be indeed useful and relevent. Please enlighten me how you overcame this hurdle?

[@Pradeep-nv8zl]

@@coolpanda7132 I replied in your below comment.

[@dharineebapat1680]

Rational thinking is not appreciated today, but it is not there for appreciation. So let your critics be. The fact they can't accept your position just reflects that they are way behind in their thoughts and still seek external validation. Ideally a true devotee wouldn't mind any view. But they mind, because they are stuck.

[@stephenmcdowell5248]

Thank you for this.. I had my doubts about HK to be honest.

[@Pradeep-nv8zl]

I'm glad this has helped confirm what you felt.

[@coolpanda7132]

Appreciated 👏, but I still have doubt that Yoga, meditation, AUM mantra, the near exact dating of age of universe are all coming from Hinduism and are proved scientifically to be indeed useful and relevent. Please enlighten me how you overcame this hurdle?

[@Pradeep-nv8zl]

Thanks Darpan for your appreciation & intelligent enquiry. Yaa, these things puzzled me as well. Some things are useful indeed for good health like Yoga. But that doesn't necessarily mean there is anything supernatural about it. Hinduism is human imagination & no doubt there were some intelligent people back then as well. However, many things are not that age old as we think. Also, vedic cosmology is pretty childish. Today we can verify that majority of stuff is not true. For few things that do match, I give some benefit of doubt to possible coincidences as well.

[@freethinker9630]

Ok its your belief but that is not truth for other sects . Why you still supporting iskon .Now iskon is not only a missionary organisation but it became a fundamentalist missionary organisation too. Now iskon devote started threating people that if a person not believe in hare krishan or does not follow vedic dities it would punished ,beacuse these rules are provided by gita .

[@prajalpi]

@@Pradeep-nv8zli’m sorry i’ve insulted u in the past, i’ve also left iskcon now. although i subscribe to advaita philosophy and consider myself a perennialist/monist/polytheist/pluralist/agnostic theist, etc. i also believe in evolution now

[@klila16]

It was much harder journey for me because I was born into it. And I still struggle because socially I’m so strange and people cannot seem to pinpoint those sorts of regular assumptions. They cannot figure out my background or where to place me. Also once they know my name a lot of assumptions are made which backfire because I’m a single mother with a prestigious Indian name. Hard to explain the complete insanity of my past.

[@Pradeep-nv8zl]

Yes, I can understand the post exit struggles especially if you're born into it & your very name (identity) is stuck with it. To be honest, I also am struggling to not be strange socially. I agree, some damages are irreversible.

[@AnkeHolst]

Glad you got out! Your father sounds wonderful ❤️

[@Pradeep-nv8zl]

Thanks! Yup, his shelter & support was indeed the reason I could even think of exiting :)

[@bhumikasharma5716]

Ultimate goal after death!? What a misunderstanding of the science of Krsna Consciousness

[@citoyenjoseph]

here, have a book to tell you what to think, dress, and do with your body. the hierarchy would love that.

[@kishorthakkkar6882]

Very good Pradeep keep it up

[@jtveg]

Thanks for sharing. 😉👌🏼

[@iraja333]

Om HaraHari Namo Namaha 🙏🙏

[@mahapurushadasmanojbarve1019]

Krishna, Supreme personality of Godhead doesn't belong to any cult & is not a property of any cult. On an individual personal level, anyone who follows what Krishna says, will experience what Krishna guarantees. But to follow Krishna's instructions one may need guidance & because Krishna who is supreme personality of Godhead is logically & naturally best teacher, himself appears as Chaitanya mahaprabhu to guide everyone about how to follow Krishna's instructions. I don't know the reason why you left iskcon or hare Krishna but one should not leave Krishna & following his instructions realized & presented by an authorized bona-fide pure devotee & that's SRILA prabhupada. Iskcon is in material world & everyone in iskcon is not pure devotee. So just because someone in iskcon is corrupt in money matters or is a womaniser, I can't leave prabhupada & Krishna. Your wife & children will not leave you because your subordinate in your job doesn't obey you. Radharani & prabhupada are not going to leave Krishna because you left iskcon or you left Krishna or whatever. Your subordinate in job is not going to leave the firm because you are corrupt or womanizer. An honest & sincere person will stick to the principles whatever happens, be it in job firm, brahmachari, family or sanyas life. Dealings of dishonest people around you in your job place or in your cult, is not going to hamper honesty of sincerely honest person & dislodge him from his path. I can see that you are intelligent person. So finally I can conclude that you drifted off from Krishna because of lack of your sincerity or because of not believing in Krishna's words. If you have exited iskcon because you don't like behavior of some people there, it's OK but I request you to not drift away from Krishna. Regarding following rules (point you raised during your talk), rules are existing whether one follows or not. One should try to follow them to the maximum as per one's understanding & capacity honestly & sincerely & must be constantly aware of what one is not following currently & basically not worry about why I am not following so & so rule just because one is not able to follow it. Just follow whatever you can currently. If you show consistency in that, Krishna will upgrade one pleased by sincerity of a follower. Yes, it takes time. Regarding rule - sex should be only for procreation, yes it's perfect rule, law of nature. But if one cannot follow, doesn't mean one should quit or exit the path. 99.99 % devotees in iskcon are not following this rule, maybe there is a possibility that some sanyasi is having sex secretly also. Why should I exit & stop loving Krishna just because some another is screwing up his own spiritual life. Just stay away from such persons, asatsanga tyag, continue to walk on the path, in your & my case, path given by Krishna. Hang on with whatever you can follow sincerely & honestly. It's Krishna's duty to purify you & upgrade you for that purpose if he sees that you have a strong desire for that. Trust me, he has his own ways to execute that. There is a lot more to say, but you are intelligent & you will understand what I mean here. Still I welcome your comments, questions or suggestions for me. Hare Krishna & dandavats.

[@pradeep1445]

Pl continue to follow your path with all seriousness and see if you attain your goal! I'm more than happy if you do.

[@mahapurushadasmanojbarve1019]

@@pradeep1445 even if some selected few people go back to godhead, maybe myself also hopefully by Krishna's mercy, who can tell you later.

[@mahapurushadasmanojbarve1019]

@@pradeep1445 your reply reflects that you have become an atheist, don't be angry, that's my personal guess. You can clarify if you want.

[@pradeep1445]

@@mahapurushadasmanojbarve1019 Yes Sir. You're right. However, I acknowledge that it'd be a very painful transition for a faithful person. It'd take at least a decade of real-life experiences in sincerely following a religious path.

[@ayamatmabrahma9658]

@@Pradeep-nv8zl You should read the comments on that post as well. It would help improve your English as well but I think it’s good you left Jayapatākā since he grossly disobeyed Prabhupāda by unjustly usurping his position along with the rest of the Guru-hoaxers. Having the proper Guru is essential and you started off the experiment with so many flaws.

[@omastrolife]

I am happy to see you pradeep with your full confidence to succeed your happy life

[@pradeep1445]

Thanks Vipul for your appreciation. I hope this would be of some help!

[@special.force.underneath]

Critical thinking and science is extremely useful but religious people will not have any of it.

[@abhijeetpatil7262]

Raju was a naughty boy. He was not interested in studies. He used to always play with his friends. When some of his good friends suggested him to be serious, he took admission in one of the reputed institutions. He got best school, best teachers, best facilities to study. Initially he was very happy due to change of atmosphere and also pretended to study. But his mind was not actually in the study, it was somewhere else, at the old friends playing pebbles. As it is said old habits die hard, he started to neglect studies and he was reading comics keeping within the books. His head was always in the books. His parents became very happy that finally their son is serious in studies, hardly they knew what he was reading and thinking. Exams were closer but Raju was absorbed in playing and comics. He was also remembering his old friends.....how good they were! They used to make me feel good! , and how bad this school was, always gives homework and assignments.... On the day of exam Raju decided to cheat as he didn't study. But he was caught red handed and debarred. When people asked why did he do this, He started blaming everyone else but him. He said school was not good, teachers were not good, friends were not helping.... and so on. People were confused as they saw him reading always, then why he was debarred? Little they knew ....what he was reading and what he was thinking??? Except few, most of the People couldn't believe him as they saw that, from the same school many students passed with flying colours and got admission in reputed institutions like IIT, IIM AIIMS etc. Raju was telling people, " Don't you know? these guys have bribed examiners to get good marks and also to get admission in good institutes" and he thought he could successfully fooled everyone. But his true friends and kind techers always felt sad and pity on him. What else they can do? And Raju again started playing with his old friends, reading comics and fooling people..... He never accepted his mistakes. Infact to hide his mistakes and guilt he always blamed the school, the teachers and the friends amidst his group.( Birds of the same feathers flock together.) But to whom he was making fool??? Parents? People? Teachers? Friends? Or Himself? There are many Rajus living in the society who are eager to take credit for success and blame others for failures. But what difference will it make to anyone else than themselves? "God helps those who help themselves"

[@pradeep1445]

What better evidence can there be of followers having horse blinders. They can't fathom even looking in the direction of doubting their religion (as they fear it's a grave offense). This indeed makes it impossible to help people whilst they're within the cult.

[@abhijeetpatil7262]

The problem is you will doubt whole world but not your own fickle mind which is cheating you! Even Duryodhana did that, he was so obstinate that he didn't listen to anyone and ultimately ruined his own life along with life of his hundred brothers. We are not horse blinders we are antivirus, we protect ourselves and others by getting corrupt like you. Better if you don't talk about offenses, because faithlessness is the outcome of serious offenses. You have proven yourself to be another Raju. Because you have lost complete gratitude for what you have received. How such ungrateful person can become a sadhu?? Atleast you should have been loyal to the free morsel of food eaten at the place to which you are criticising. We wouldn't bother If you keep your opinions to yourself but if you are putting absolutely wrong opinions about ISKCON then we can't keep quiet. ISKCON is not a cult but your materialism is a cult, for which you have returened to your home to again get kicked by Maya sufficiently. Its called Vantasi...licking ur own vomit. Without qualification if some one artificially try to renounce his duties and become a sadhu, such person is called a falgu or Markat vairagi. And a falgu vairagi cannot get any spiritual realization just like a barren women can't get a child.

[@pradeep1445]

@@abhijeetpatil7262 Thank you for documenting evidence upon evidence of this blind following philosophy - as you ask people not to trust their mind & intelligence. This is the best I could do to help people like you. Take care.

[@abhijeetpatil7262]

@@pradeep1445 Blind following and absurred enquires both are of no use in the path of spiritual realization. There may be many blind followers who don't have any scriptural knowledge but we are not one of them. There are highly educated and intellectual people in ISKCON. These IITians, engineers, doctors have not sold their intelligence to get fooled by anyone. What is the function of mind? accepting and rejecting, which you are following right now. What is the function of intelligence? To discriminate between good and bad. And good and bad in this world is relative. Otherwise how a intelligent doctor smokes, even though he knows smoking is injurious to health. Thus unless and untill one is guided by scriptures, he will not have intelligence to know absolute good and bad and he will act according to dictations of his whims of his mind. With your tiny intelligence you can't even know about this Universe then what to speak of unlimited spiritual realm. Such people who bost of their intelligence and scientific advancement are shown their place by a infinitesimal virus like corona. It is the nature of humans to become proud and boast about their achievements but one little slap of nature brings them on their knees. The builders of the gigantic Titanic ship had made their slogan that " We made a ship, even god can not sink it". then what happened, every one knows. It is not only in ISKCON but all over the world people are trying to understand their real self. There are true spiritual practitioners in all the religions of the world. And it doesn't take profound knowlede to understand the existence of God. It requires simple common sense that creation can not come into existence without a creator. But even after one has knowledge of all the scriptures, why one denies to surrender god??? The answer is because of the false ego, the tendency to Lord it over material nature and slavery of one's own obstinate and rebellious mind. Ravana, Hiranyakashipu, Duryodhana ...all these demons were not illitrate fools. They were profound in vedic knowlede. Infact the powers they attained is through the same knowledge but they simply didn't want to surrender due to their false ego. And what was their fate??? This rebelliousness of living entity is the cause of his suffering in this world since time immemorial. Unless one gives up this deeply rooted tendency and surrender, he can't get out of here. If you have some other way please suggest. You were speaking about your Father's love in the video, but no one told you to leave your father and go to join brhmacahri asram. It was your choice. Millions of devotees all over the world are staying at home and performing their duties and happily engaging in devotional service simultaneously. What made you to leave your father and go temple if you really loved him? You were not a kid that you were forced to join or brainwashed ?? neither ISKCON was in desperate need of you and your services. Without proper understanding of renunciation and maturity if you give up your duties and accept pseudo renunciation then ultimately you have to get frustrated. And I have seen such many people who blame the Institution the authorities and everyone else ??? Be a man to take responsibility for your own decisions and stop the cowardice act of blaming others. How long you are going to sit in the lap of your father?? Don't work and just sit idle then you will know how much your father loves you! You are not grateful to the supreme father who has given you everything inspite of your rebellion, and you are speaking about your father's love in this life. If you truely love you father then give him something that will not finish with his death. If a son liberates his father from hell names Pu then only he is called Putra otherwise he is called mutra because he is of no use like urine. May god give you good intelligence and rescue you from demon of atheism.

[@ayamatmabrahma9658]

@@abhijeetpatil7262 Very nice reply but he doesn’t accept the system of initiations laid out by Śrīla Prabhupāda and was a disciple of Gordon Erdman so he’s pretty stupid to begin with, which is evinced by his lousy English.

[@harinakshiurde1550]

U r looking at something...and saying

[@Pradeep-nv8zl]

Yes... I'd prepared a script (points that I wanted to cover.)

[@rohanshetti2989]

He says there is no Hinduism or such thing. But then tells that Bhagavadgita is the Hindu religion book. What contrary? He himself is not sure what he is talking.

[@Pradeep-nv8zl]

That's exactly the point. Something that has such a funny origin actually has a revered text like Bhagwad Gita! Can't you see the sarcasm?

[@ayyappaad9376]

@@Pradeep-nv8zl yes.. He's such a fool.. See what Vasudeva Krishna says.. BG 15.15 - He is remembrance, forgetfulness and intelligence

[@special.force.underneath]

Religion is a hobby

[@ayyappaad9376]

If it's a cult or what else you think, what you think about the other Sambradayas, Hindu religion in India.. If you need to be athiest that's your wish go on. I can say he just speculates.. Just some 10 people in 1000 may come out. Prabhupadas message to this mankind will exist in at least next thousands of years. No one can stop.. Juggernaut is the word came from Lord Jagannath himself

[@sandeeprai4316]

This is one sided video

[@pradeep1445]

Hi Sandeep, I can’t recollect you very well. If you like, you can privately reveal your identity to me via email. But I certainly empathize with your hostility as I might have done the same was I in your place a couple years ago. This happens because we completely identify with our faith & any attack on it is taken very personally. Yes, you’re right. It was my brother’s incident that became a catalyst in intensifying my desire to know the truth. I also wanted to do something for the well-being of his soul. As I've mentioned, due to our innocent faith in the protection and care of almighty lord (in the beginning), we become blissful and carefree. As you feel this is a one-sided video, I’ll try to expand on these side benefits of a Religion / Cult in Part 2 of this video. I hope that’d be to your satisfaction!

[@freethinker9630]

Ok its your belief but that is not truth for other sects . Why you still supporting iskon .Now iskon is not only a missionary organisation but it became a fundamentalist missionary organisation too. Now iskon devote started threating people that if a person not believe in hare krishan or does not follow vedic dities it would punished ,beacuse these rules are provided by gita .

[@sandeeprai4316]

You ( Pradeep) forget to tell that your mother or may be brother some one committed suicide and because of that depression you searched for God. And Hare Krishna (Iskcon ) helped you to come out of depression. Now you are talking about world is beautiful etc but that time you were really depressed and because of iskcon Now you feel world is beautiful. Don't you think this is what you got from Iskcon.

[@abhijeetpatil7262]

This is absolutely ungrateful

[@Pradeep-nv8zl]

Common sense isn't common. Happy trolling to you guys 👍

[@freethinker9630]

Ok its your belief but that is not truth for other sects . Why you still supporting iskon .Now iskon is not only a missionary organisation but it became a fundamentalist missionary organisation too. Now iskon devote started threating people that if a person not believe in hare krishan or does not follow vedic dities it would punished ,beacuse these rules are provided by gita .

[@pradeep8867]

You've spoken enough - Krishna Consciousness is not a cult - You should be the last person to say that since you've been preaching its not Just because it did not work for you does'nt mean it did'nt for others - MAYBE you engaged in too much Vaishnava aparadh gossiping, judgemental, hatred, lust etc. I dont know you but i can tell just by looking at you your character - Just look at the parampara and look at you - You're hardly someone who can be taken seriously - Ramanuj, Madhva, Vishnu Swami, Nimbaka, Jesus, Buddha etc - Great souls - Why dont you strive to at least follow their footsteps - How do you reconcile those devotees who've dedicated 40,50,60 years and more - What does that say about you - So for me, you and your white boyfriend there were'nt convincing in your arguments and ideologies - Good luck on your new religion Atheism. Please make another video when you come back to your senses - Amen

[@freethinker9630]

Ok its your belief but that is not truth for other sects . Why you still supporting iskon .Now iskon is not only a missionary organisation but it became a fundamentalist missionary organisation too. Now iskon devote started threating people that if a person not believe in hare krishan or does not follow vedic dities it would punished ,beacuse these rules are provided by gita .

[@behindpuzzles5653]

Wow ! 😇 when do Mr.Pradeep thakkar appointed as the whole and sole of Hinduism🤭.. Even Ravana and Kamsa Taught So and Kept Spreading their Myth and unfortunate One day they meet with the same Personality "Krishna" Face to Face, then REST IN PEACE... OM SHANTI.... Finally They understood RAM NAAM HI SATYA H 😅😂🤣

[@arkadipmondal5402]

Jhonny sins is better than Krishna... Atleast jhonny sins exist

[@behindpuzzles5653]

@@arkadipmondal5402 happy be Watching Him with your Family on this new Era and Make your offspring's like Johnnny SINN...

[@arkadipmondal5402]

@@behindpuzzles5653 better than waging wars... Sexually abusing under age women, unlimited list on gopis, etc.... At least jhonny sins would not be branded as a criminal... But accvto world Krishna would be a mythical playboy

[@behindpuzzles5653]

@@arkadipmondal5402 you call it myth and also abuse his acts "how hypocrisy looks So... You make your family to be a kind of Johnny sin..