Team Flash Decides On Thawne's Fate | The Flash Armageddon Crossover [HD]

[@hyphil1354]

"thawn has consistantly tried to kill us, he killed my mother, he killed you in an alternate timeline, he killed cisco in an alternate timeline, he's the reason eddie thawn is dead, he tried killing iris, he tried killing the legends of tomorow, he tried killing Ollie AND firestorm. and he has killed SEVERAL civilians, we dont owe him shit, this is his own actions fucking him over." "yeah but you have to save everyone" CW writers, everyone.

[@DarkAngelEl]

“,Even Manipulated Nora(S5) To GET WHAT HE WANTS And By So Erasing Nora Out Of Existence”

[@rantmasterbeta1955]

And allied to alternate Nazis

[@sheldonrhymes8900]

Right tho! Terrible writing for that scene, honestly letting him die is the best choice for everyone and in the end at the end of the season they let him die anyways lmao so what was the point of saving him to begin with when he's just gonna try and kill everyone again and end up still killing himself

[@yamamato910]

@@sheldonrhymes8900 i feel like everyone is media illiterate, barry is a hero, it doesn’t matter what thawne does barry cannot turn him down if he asks him to save his life, it is the meaning of being a hero in the dc landscape, the same goes for batman saving/ not killing the joker, of course to regular people it makes sense to just kill them or let them die but it’s goes against the meaning of being a hero

[@yamamato910]

not bad writing it’s literally the whole purpose of barry as a hero, it doesn’t make sense to you because you are a regular civilian. i’m not saying this is anywhere near the same quality but this is literally the flashes version of batman not killing joker after he killed jason todd

[@GamerX13X]

Timeline: Tries to kill Reverse Flash Joe: And I took offense to that.

[@matthewjuarbe5826]

Joe is the Father we need in this world. you do the right thing not for recognition not for cheers or for awards or anything. you do the right thing cause its the right thing to do even if its hard. Joe told Barry the truth you don't get to choose who you save. Joe is Barry morale Compass the reason why Barry is the Hero today because Joe keeps him on the path.

[@rudrasingh6354]

@@matthewjuarbe5826 mate Thanwe has only one thing left to do in life, destroy Barry and his friends and family. He did this to himself when he killed Barry's mom in S1 and set in to motion him being erased and has been running from death ever since. After S1 he has no "home" to go to, he will only spend his life trying to kill him. why should you save him?

[@matthewjuarbe5826]

@@rudrasingh6354 because he asked for help. Yes he did this to himself and the easy thing to do is just to let him die bit just letting him die wouldnt make Barry a hero it would make Barry less then. A Hero it wpuld make Barry like Thawne like all the rest of the villians he has stopped. He doesnt get to choose who lives or who dies. By him not trying to save thawne he would have made a choice that will affect his moral judgement because that one choice will change how he protects and serves the city. Barry isnt the law he isnt god he doesnt have the right to choose who lives or who dies.

[@kdubbss0583]

@@matthewjuarbe5826 but it’s not his choice. It’s the timeline’s. He messed with time and time is messing with him back. So it’s not technically Barry’s responsibility. I’m sorry, but as much as I love Joe, I cannot agree with him on this. This isn’t some run of the mill robber, or a thief stealing a old lady’s purse. This is THE REVERSE FLASH we’re talking about here. There is not enough text to type on what that man has done to Barry and the team, Joe included. I mean how many times have Barry taken the high road, or just let Thawne escape causing him to hurt more people? I hate when the CW shows do this, where someone who is clearly irredeemable is being written to be given sympathy. Daredevil and the Punisher did a much better job at blurring the lines than this.

[@matthewjuarbe5826]

@@kdubbss0583 true but at that moment forgetting thawneuch like Barry are tied to one another whats to say by letting thawne due it affects how Barry got his piwera which implies all ofnthose lives barry has saved all erased due to him not having powers. Alao the morale factor on Barry he knows of another way to protect the timeline protect people and bring justice for all the people thawne hurt. By nit attempting to save thawne barry would morale compromise his views on second chances and forgiveness. The whoke point if barry being able to run as fast as he can is due to him not having that anger and guit if thawne weighing on him. And punisher and daredevil didnt do it better. Look at s03 of dare devil. Matt was so hell bent in killing fisk but at the end he soared fisl and let justice and the law take its course. Matt murdock is the man of the law he believes in the law still he isnt judge jury exicutioner barry also grew up in a similer manor with Joe being a cop. Despite hiw bad simekne is you dont turn back on someone who ask for help. Cause it shows youre mirale charecter. Barry found a way ti get justice protect the timeline and the people without letting somekne die and alao giving that person a chance for redemption.

[@jaquariusgriffin1807]

Joe brought out that dad voice towards iris and barry

[@ArkhamJacks]

The fact his 2 kids are fkn makes this comment hella wierd

[@YasaByYasa]

@@ArkhamJacks Crap, that’s true

[@YasaByYasa]

I know! I actually got scared!

[@Beachboy757]

I felt that shit

[@benjaminscott8198]

I recoiled from Papa Joe's voice lol

[@PhatOof]

"Take away his speed, permanently" To a dude who created his OWN speedforce.

[@BrianR246]

Yeah this is what I'm confused about. The Negative Speed Force is supposed to protect from timeline changes. Now it's not. Even if they take his connection, why can't he just make another? Lol

[@blaquephyrekendra1779]

@@BrianR246 thawn isn't using the negative Speedforce here because if he was he wouldn't be at risk of timeline erasure

[@BrianR246]

@@blaquephyrekendra1779 But Caitlin said there was no longer any trace of the Negative Speed Force in Thawne's body after Barry took his speed. That implies he did have it up until then. That's what is the confusing part. Unless he had to be in the Negative Speed Force to continue to exist.Or after the Reverse-Flashpoint the rules no longer applied or something.

[@blaquephyrekendra1779]

@@BrianR246 ok i just saw that part. Ok wtf then 🤦🏾‍♀️🤷🏾‍♀️

[@BrianR246]

@@blaquephyrekendra1779 Right?! All their different time travels in this show it makes it to confusing to keep up lol.

[@chrisbowers2450]

I want Joe, Cecille, Chester and Allegra to remember that since they want him to live; whoever he hurts or kill is on them, they can be responsible for that

[@nicolemarshall1574]

Ain't that the truth

[@greenightponydragon5127]

@@nicolemarshall1574 of course joe understand that he a cop 👮‍♀️ everyone he chooses to save in certain situations weather good or bad he understands the consequences but it like he says being a hero is about making the right choices and saving everyone even your arch nemesis.

[@davantesevier4650]

Exactly like this man literally rewrote the timeline and killed Barry’s mother and manipulated everything and everyone to gets what he wants yet they have to save him cause they’re the good guys. Where is the justification

[@jacobdenness8659]

Yeah especially Joe, talks down to them like that and tries to make them responsible for it. Next time Joe should really look at him self

[@tayc9542]

Do you not understand what would happen to Barry’s powers if Thawne permanently dies?

[@blackbankai0354]

I don't agree with him, but damn, Joe has a lot of integrity.

[@nkuniverse7856]

Fax

[@kennymccormick2370]

I feel like if the Villains go out of there way to ask for help, it becomes more controversial with the no killing villains rule. For example Batman, he might let villains die, since he's not directly killing them, but if they ask for his help, then it makes things more on him, because they asked for his help. Refusing to help means you aren't that much of a hero, as on the otherhand, if a villain dies via timeline fighting back for example, and you have nothing to do with that, plus they do not ask for your help, you didn't directly kill them, or refuse them. It's very controversial, but who knows.

[@g3orgge788]

@@kennymccormick2370 No those rules don’t apply to mass murderers like Thawne.

[@michaelkean5969]

@@kennymccormick2370 the thing is it's all based on who,what and why. if Joker came to Batman to ask for help to save harely for example then he would do it (even when he knows that Joker will just use and abuse her as normal) but he'll still do it because another person's life is at stake. right after that he'd still toss both of them into Arkham. i know batman did say in Arkahm City when Joker was lying on the ground dying that even after all he'd done he would still have saved him.......but would have he though because the deed was already done Joker had caused batman to drop the cure and it smashed on the ground and Joker was already dying if Joker hadn't attacked him would batman really have given Joker the cure because he was in a situation that would end their battle for good. that's the one problem i had with the arkham city game it took the easy way out to absolve batman of the joker's death.

[@kennymccormick2370]

@@michaelkean5969 Yeah, it kind of all depends on the Mind Space, but we all know Batman keeps a level head especially with his morals. I do agree with you though.

[@vinboy11]

Joe in Season 2: Shoots what he thinks is old Harrison Wells without a warning. Joe in season 8: Dont kill him, you need to be good people

[@ansutoure5583]

Right like tf

[@technotrack5959]

Yeah the flash literally saved him by picking up that bullets and now this dumb ass joe giving this statement like WTF is going man 😂

[@dagoat8432]

@@technotrack5959 characters cant change?

[@eZeero]

@@dagoat8432 Depends on what exactly we're talking about.He has been portrayed to be a man with integrity. Now he suddenly does a 180 while still maintaining that frame.That's just a little contradictory...to say the least.

[@malvi616]

It’s called character development understanding the dangers of what can come

[@ta5664]

They did the right thing. But part of me was thinking in Batman Begins terms: “I’m not going to kill you, but I don’t have to save you”

[@babytoshiro7014]

That would work in this instance too

[@nobleskywalker4639]

Totally separate situations though. Cause Batman directly caused the crash that lead to ra's death with Jim driving the batmobile on his order.

[@rayburks7059]

@@nobleskywalker4639 ra was using the train and was gonna wipe out the city he was the cause of his own death batman only stopped the city from being decimated these aren't different situations jus different solutions

[@technotrack5959]

That joe says we can't kill him but its actually his karma himself trying to hit him back and joe stopped this by happening he did interference laws of karma!

[@nobleskywalker4639]

@@rayburks7059 he stopped Ras by ordering Gordon to destroy the train tracks causing his death. Unlike the Thwane situation Barry never told him to mess with the timeline

[@step2807]

Chester and Allegra don't understand so I can see why they are being like this. The team understands. The original team but damn Joe that was powerful

[@vmaninc.761]

Yeah that was powerfully stupid, this is the whole reason why I cannot stand team flash even though I enjoy the show so much; the morality argument is straight up stupid, eobard thawne has made it his life's mission to destroy Barry and all his family and friends he has made it clear that he's never going to change and is never going to stop he altered the entire timeline and made Barry's friends his and made them turn against him that asshole has ran out his Mercy card and needs to go Point Blank Period!!!!!!!

[@demontiming3234]

@@vmaninc.761 exactly, like save him and then what? He kills your family, then what? He kills you. It makes literally no sense to save him, The Flash needs actual heroes not adults who talk, think, and act like children who are playing make believe

[@MyahUnleashed]

@@vmaninc.761 Joe is the voice of reason.

[@maaax5092]

@@MyahUnleashed joe is the voice of an idiot

[@michaelkean5969]

@@vmaninc.761 so bloody true even the most stubborn of the DC heroes like Batman even he has contingency plans for guys like Darkseid,Doomsday Reverse flash that you kill them first then discuss morality later because those type of Villains are the kind that will take the time you have the moral talk to kill you dead.

[@zannia5510]

I honestly can’t believe this was even a debate. It’s not like they’re actually killing Thawne they just have to let nature take it’s course. Like I love Joe but I can’t believe he laid into them about that of all things. That man has murdered countless people and basically promised to continue to do so if they let him live. I SAY LET KARMA DO ITS THING!!

[@MrOmegatronic]

That's the thing, though. It's not about what Thawne did, it's about who a hero is. And what justice is: _Blind._ If you only give your all for the people you like, and leave the people you don't like to die, then you're not a hero. You're just a corrupt cop, taking your first steps down the slippery slope. Joe would know, he's probably _seen_ it. Seen how a cop can give one murderer's lynching a blind eye, and how next time, it might not be murderer... and how eventually, the lynching that gets a blind eye will be for the innocent civilian that the cop just plain doesn't like. Being able to help Thawne but refusing to do so would kill him, yes, but it would _destroy_ Barry in a way Thawne never would. Barry letting Thawne die is how Thawne would win.

[@Hiramekiza]

@@MrOmegatronic Yeah I don't like this argument at all. A hero doesn't just save people in the moment. A hero makes sure that people don't have to suffer in the future too. Sometimes that means doing things that don't look heroic or virtuous. Otherwise you're just serving up platitudes. Thawne caused his own demise, he's played his mercy card several times. At this point being a hero would be to let him die because to not do so would mean to allow countless people to die later on, and their blood would be on the hands of team Flash.

[@ItsXetren]

@@Hiramekiza I agree that Thawne deserves to die, and that realistically speaking, a hero should make sure he can't hurt people ever again. But this is more about the SHOWS interpretation of what a hero is, not what we or the real world would consider one. In this show, a hero doesn't just let people die without trying, for any reason. That's the argument here. Hell, it's the logic of nearly every superhero property. I'd argue that most heroes in DC would not let Thawne die. Also, if they were to kill Thawne, it becomes a question of why they don't kill other villains too. After all, they would be saving future people from being a victim, right? Its not realistic, but it's a superhero show.

[@robertoibarra3960]

@@Hiramekiza just think of the movie and game injustice, flash would become like superman in that if he let's reverse flash die he would also start killing all those other villains that try to hurt his family. That is what Joe is trying to prevent from happening

[@snakekingblues3017]

@@ItsXetren i agree for the most part but why it got to be one way or the other beside at this point barry has killed people anyway by letting Thawne live so what about that?

[@coreymajtyka460]

Regardless of Thawne's fate, I've missed Joe so much.

[@tyjomi71]

You kill Thawne you kill the show I think it’s a trap by Thawne

[@randomeguywhonotthereverse6635]

@@tyjomi71 darn it! thawn replace logic with the righters

[@JashXD]

@@tyjomi71 thawne hasnt been a good villain since season 1

[@crystallxix1493]

This is fucking ridiculous. The fact that they made Flash look like the asshole for wanting to let the guy who could potentially destroy the entire timeline die is ridiculous

[@hoodiek6802]

The didn't make Flash look like a bad guy he's just not A K1ller watching a bad person Doenin front of you When you know you can help Him.

[@BionicSpider]

@@hoodiek6802 WHEN THAT MAN HAS LITERALLY TORTURED, TORMENTED AND KILLED PEOPLE THAT YOU LOVE OVER AND OVER AND OVER AGAIN AND HAS NO INTENTION OF EVER STOPPING WHY THE FUCK WOULD YOU HELP HIM. Its not heroic its stupid and idiotic. Thawn is a unhinged psychopath and by saving him the heros are responsible for every single person that gets hurt or killed after the fact.

[@brainloading5543]

@@BionicSpider I agree, here the choice needs to be made by logic, not by moral(which is kinda stupid here)

[@pseudonym667]

@@BionicSpider tell that to batdumb

[@TheBobist]

Stupid TV hero logic

[@Calypsis1]

This season has sooooo much potential following this event. I hope they make the rest of the season as good as this

[@salmonshiki]

This is the last episode for this season

[@sauccytime7527]

@UCYuytw43IKaWKInJ9T7oEtg it is

[@Jahof20s]

@@salmonshiki This part of the season

[@shamarmyrie7467]

@@Jahof20s they said it was the last episode

[@Jahof20s]

@@shamarmyrie7467 of this event

[@hunter17835]

Personally, I'm less bothered by Joe's point itself and more by how he made it. Even when at his most disappointed and upset after learning Iris was going to die, he never ranted and screamed at Barry and Iris for keeping that from him. But here, when Barry and Iris aren't even planning on killing Thawne, they just want to let him suffer the consequences of his own actions, he blows up at them in a way that he's never done before. It gets worse when he talks with Damien and Nora about being a father at the end, because he sure as hell was not acting like a good father in this conversation.

[@DeepikaGinger]

I agree. The man who helped a prisoner escape to try and save his daughter doesn’t get to use that tone. I believe in the ‘heroes shouldn’t kill’ rule, but that doesn’t mean they’re wrong or immoral for considering it. He could have shown more empathy.

[@rayburks7059]

@@DeepikaGinger they weren't going to kill him doe the timeline was they were jus going to let him die

[@DeepikaGinger]

@@rayburks7059 I personally don’t see a ton of difference between letting someone die when you can stop it, with no harm to yourself, and killing someone. But, while I don’t like heroes killing, Thawne is someone who manipulated the timeline to free himself (at the cost of Barry and Iris’ daughter’s life) so he’s always going to be dangerous, and I wouldn’t really condemn them for making this choice. Certainly not the way Joe seems to condemn them.

[@rayburks7059]

@@DeepikaGinger rf is responsible for his own demise for messing with the timeline the universe was erasing him from existence jus because you know how to prevent doesn't mean you have to that wouldn't make you a murderer every action has a consequence and Joe spazzing on Iris and Barry to prevent Eobard consequence will easily come back to bite them this is one of the dumbest things Joe has ever said and one of the dumbest things flash has done he's not killing thawne he would be letting nature take its course but nah the writers are obviously gonna bring him back like always severing his connection won't do anything because he made the negative speed force he can easily reconnect

[@DeepikaGinger]

@@rayburks7059 You’re free to disagree with me about this. We’re on the same page about Joe yelling at Barry and Iris. This was about the man who killed Barry’s mother, their daughter, and many other people, and who basically promised to continue hurting them. This wasn’t something they were doing lightly.

[@KingYama74]

First off not saving someone from their own destruction isn’t killing them it’s not saving them. He won’t change, he can’t be imprisoned forever and has shown to be a threat to all life itself. Letting live means everything that happens after will be on them. It is honestly insane how this is even a discussion.

[@jovonheron6388]

Facts!! It drives me nuts that they always let him get away or don’t kill him because of moral codes. They are given the best opportunity by letting nature do the work but nope letting Joe talk them out of it. The same Joe who in Season 2 walks in a room sees Harrison Wells 2 and immediately unloads a clip on him without taking any steps. Everytime RF hurts or kills someone id remind Joe & gang it’s on him.

[@jester1924]

So we should try to save the sociopath who commits genocides for fun because that’s what heroes do -Joe West 2021

[@joshheralal8758]

Well yes, they save people.

[@papaofthejohns5882]

@@joshheralal8758 Wait, so you think Barry would and should have prevented the nazis sentenced to death during the Nuremberg Trials from being killed if he was there?

[@Jaegar19Ultima-u9d]

@@joshheralal8758 We even save genocidal maniacs because saving them means that we can't be blamed if saving the maniac kills millions. Wokism everybody!

[@Da_Senate7T]

Heros also make hard choices for the greater good. Letting this mf die is perfectly fine lol

[@pokemonmc7798]

Maybe its because I haven't seen the full episode yet, but why is Joe, in any capacity, defending Thawne? Didn't he shoot Harry Wells on sight back in S2 because he had the same face as him? But now he's defending the real Thawne, who he knows killed him and completely fucked up the timeline how many times??? Why would Joe try to kill him with a gun but not let the literal force of nature deal with him accordingly.

[@Qevox]

+1

[@badatvideogames5832]

Holy fuck exactly, like I won't discredit the acting but how is he defending the most evil fuck in the multiverse.

[@Angeleyes8082]

I suggest you LISTEN....AGAIN to what Joe is actually saying. Nobody has the right to kill anyone....regardless. Unless its self defense. Joe knows the effect it will have on Barry and Iris if they kill Thawn

[@bots604]

@@Angeleyes8082 you're telling me, the guy who was responsible for altering the world two times, and also assisted the Nazis of Earth-X doesnt deserve to die? Even if they didn't help Thawne, they wouldn't be killing him perse, they just wouldn't be saving him

[@mekhimcdaniel2994]

@@bots604 we should start paying attention to THE Paragon of LOVE

[@Melomaniac1956]

From here on out, Joe is solely responsible for all the suffering, misery and death Thawne will inflict on them and everyone else; because he decided that upholding his precious principles was more important than safeguarding the lives of his own family or the lives of innocent people.

[@criscabrera9098]

I agree with this joe this is your fault for you telling us to save him for whatever reason and I’m sure cisco would vote let him die too let’s remember Nora both mom and daughter would be here had it not been for him

[@joshheralal8758]

That's the same bulkshit that Batman is responsible for the people Joker kills. He's not.

[@criscabrera9098]

@@joshheralal8758 but the joker wasn’t dying in any big story line and if he was I would expect Batman to let him die and move on but he’d be stupid and save him

[@gilbertmillers4865]

Absolutely true

[@Eros565]

Amen

[@Cosmicmorales]

“There's no hero without a villain.”

[@rayburks7059]

A hero with no villain becomes the villain so another hero rises

[@technotrack5959]

Then what's matter? U want villain and heros or peace?

[@rayburks7059]

@@technotrack5959 no such thing as peace because there will always be those that want more and will kill to get it even if you wipe humans out another species will take over

[@Nyualum21]

I love Joe but that is some of the dumbest logic I've ever heard. Big difference between straight up killing a villain and letting a villain face the consequences of his own actions. Thawne deserves no help from Barry.

[@JKumar100]

yeah

[@simonling4644]

Joe's argument is the single most ridiculous argument to surface this earth

[@a4charger834]

Nah it's solid but obviously backed by emotions and personal ethics

[@Korax0t0x]

@@a4charger834 basically, it's bullshit...

[@blacklotus9530]

I mean he has a very valid point. Hero’s save everyone not those who they deem as villans. He may have a stupid argument in everyone’s eyes but take away how stupid you think it is and realize heros do what they have to do to save the people. Thawn is a villain and Barry hates him but Barry knows he has the ability to change but chooses not to. So take the ability to make him choose away and put him in lockdown. Then he won’t have anything to do other then sit there and help the hero’s cuz no speed no transportation and he will be under surveillance. I think they should make an apartment inside star labs for thawn and other villans. That way they would be able to use there powers and would be free but in jail. They would basically have there own world where they do what they want but they would be thousands of feet under ground. The only way up would be through a 5 person elevator and with a key, a badge, eye scan, thumb print, and the speed force lightning. If you don’t have even one of those then it alerts the hero’s and they put everyone in lockdown. Then the ones that tried to escape would be put in solitary. So basically if the world pools there money to make an underground world where those that do bad live the problem would be solved. Make a way for the sun to get in and make it look just like the city

[@blacklotus9530]

That reply is longer then I thought so I apologize

[@doctorwho3708]

But he not wrong.

[@xuanangliu4674]

The Reverse-Flash is the only character that keeps this show alive. I really want the show go back to season1-3 standard

[@theencryptedpartition4633]

It's like CW is deciding whether to keep Reverse Flash in the show or not

[@matthiasck]

Amen. I loved those seasons. I even own them on blu ray. Stopped watching after Season 4. The writers and direction for these DC CW shows are trash these days. They desperately needed and need much shorter seasons with less filler.

[@ninjafrog6966]

It’s really funny because the only reason they’re not letting Thawne go from the show is because they need a way to cram him into a storyline when they’re feeling lazy, so they’ll justify anything to keep him on

[@r4pemachine189]

Didn't Joe too decide to shoot Harry on sight the first time they met because he looks like Eobard lol?

[@thomasraines1396]

He did yes.

[@alanvalencia8585]

lol he did

[@Zacurafire]

Clap it up for Joe guys. Just popping up at the right moments with just THE worst advice

[@spectral282mcoc]

Disagreed

[@gilbertmillers4865]

Totally 💯 agree

[@gilbertmillers4865]

Not to mention coming from a hypocritical, contradicting condescending character no less!

[@Eros565]

Straight facts

[@SixSirens]

Joe "Empty clip at guy who slightly resembles Thawne posing as Wells." West needs to shut his mouth 😂

[@getemmemes9434]

Hold on there Joe, I'm sure we all remember that time when you seen wells 2 and immediately pulled out your gun and fired shots thinking it was Thawne.

[@daltonoakleyjr391]

Can we all agree that Damien Dhark has to be one of the most redeemed big bads in the arrowverse ?

[@bingizzle]

The way Joe said Barry and Iris made me think I was in trouble

[@dompanarello6780]

Let’s remember when joe seen wells in season two the man literally just pulled a gun out and fired without hesitation but now he wants to save the guy 🤦🏻‍♂️

[@elusana]

i don’t know why they even have a say in thawne’s fate. it’s not like he murdered both parents, created them so that they’ll be lifelong enemies, created timelines to ruin their life, made every scheme as personal between them, it’s absolutely nothing like that

[@HelloGudbye93]

SO ridiculous. And that's just what he did to Barry season 1. Thawne KILLED Iris's child right in front of her. She literally held Nora in her arms while she died. Iris's fiancé killed himself in front of her to stop Thawne from killing Barry. Thawne JUST killed Iris's father AND manipulated a future where he was going to marry her. Thawne directly killed Caitlin's husband TWICE. First with the particle accelerator explosion and then with the singularity thawne created. Thawne also killed Cisco and he'd still be dead if Barry hadn't run back in time in 1x15. So, why the actual FUCK is Joe, Cecile, Allegra, and Chester even opening their mouths to say shit?? They only dislike Thawne because he's just a bad guy in general. Not because Thawne destroyed their lives the way he did Barry, Iris, and Caitlin. This was such a dumb plot point. And it further drives home how the writers CONSTANTLY try to write a team of helpful Co-workers to be equally as important as the show's title character. They're not. And they should've never opened their mouths or tried to debate ANYTHING regarding Thawne.

[@theoutsiderjess1869]

The only one who should have a choice is Barry, Iris and Caitlin since Thawne hurt them

[@jb57551]

@@theoutsiderjess1869 didnt Thawne ALSO HURT JOE?

[@theoneaboveall4533]

What needs to happen. I mean needs to: They need to start the loop again. Go back in time. Make Thawne lose his powers there. And keep the loop going. I feel like Barry loses his powers there as well. And in order to keep it accurate, they need to use their old suits and Thawne needs decide not to use Well’s face. But either way, something needs to happen and cause this nexus that was mentioned in season 1.

[@ianr.navahuber2195]

that nexus is way long gone my pal

[@refelicia824]

I'm sorry. I personally don't like this argument and I'm not on Joe's side. Killing Thawn solves so much yet he wants Barry to save him because its wrong??? Uk what's wrong the reason that Thawn even hates Barry is the dumbest shit I've ever heard and because of that he terrorized Barry and Team Flash for years and years to come. Barry killing Thawn won't do anything cause with Thawn gone that's one big less person to think about coming after him and his family when they are happy.

[@hoodiek6802]

Ofc because Hes a Demented psycho who found a way to give himself powers It's not bad writing at all you just don't understand it.Barry is a hero Who has never taken a life before. Even his worst enemies he still tried to help . But Barry never k1lled anyone Even If the timeline was Going to kill Thawne they were literally deciding if they should just let.Joe knew everything thawne did and knows he's a monster So he told them to find another way Chain him up. If anything that's good writing it shows Pa pa Joe is being just that A Dad.Trying to make sure Barry keeps on his Path Is what Joe always did

[@nkuniverse7856]

@@hoodiek6802 barry killed sand demon

[@Cacao613]

@@hoodiek6802 Barry didn't try to save Zoom. Why should he try to save reverse flash

[@hoodiek6802]

@@Cacao613 He couldn't save Zoom he already broke the rules of The speed force

[@lobofka.1543]

I can see what Joe is telling them. I can see the message for the audience for the ppl for the kids watching but to be honest they gonna be even bigger HEROES if they JUST LET HIM DIE. Cus we are writing our own destiny. And Thawne did this to himself a lot of times. About the saving part... You don't try to save a man that's been killing millions... YOU JUST DON'T. PERIOD. He even told him that he won't change. -.- wtf are they on about.

[@technotrack5959]

Yes they interfere in law of speed force and disobey the natures law and claiming themselves an heroes! Holy shit!

[@technotrack5959]

Then also why there is death sentence in law? By this logic a judge also have to let live criminals if they asked jude to save them 😂

[@joshheralal8758]

@@technotrack5959 The death sentence is bullshit anyway

[@d.t.5390]

This episode annoyed me so much

[@d.t.5390]

This episode annoyed me so much

[@jeffn4836]

The reasoning for keeping him alive was so forced and hamfisted. He’s a literally threat to time itself. The whole is more important than the one.

[@theoutsiderjess1869]

It tells me that they don't have a good villain for this season so they're keeping thawne alive who is one of the best villains

[@Onxys01]

@@theoutsiderjess1869 You forgot Zoom, and the show hasn't used Cobalt Blue, Red Death or Black Racer yet

[@jb57551]

@@Onxys01 Zoom is already turned into Black Flash, and even then he is frozen by Killer Frost at Season 3 finale so they cannot use him unless the team travels back to the past

[@Xehanort10]

They tried to frame a writing copout as some deep moral debate.

[@davenierop1540]

I know that for the last 8 years Thawne has been the most hated enemy to the team but like this is their decision

[@Cgo952]

Si

[@nicolemarshall1574]

I see Joe's point of view but when thawne ends up killing iris,cecil and Jen your gonna wish you'd let him die bc thawne is gonna keep coming after barry and there's no trying to save this lunatic and letting him live your sending the people u love to there graves bc u won't do what's necessary and one of these days thawns gonna succeed in destroying barry

[@theoutsiderjess1869]

Like seriously did he forget that man killed his granddaughter right in front of his daughter. Joe I love you but come on that argument doesn't work here because if they let the speed force take him due to his own hubris there is nothing wrong with that they saved millions of life by doing that

[@coreynance3874]

@@theoutsiderjess1869 agreed.

[@antonrueda1044]

Wow. Just wow. Thawn will keep ruining their lives. He will do anything to make Barry suffer. But this time the team is responsible for the suffering he will cause them. It's honestly hilarious how much they doomed themselves and the lives of other people just so they could selfishly keep their morals squeaky clean.

[@cinematastic1814]

Remember that time Joe West tried to murder Harry Wells because he looked like Eobard Thawne?

[@porpus99]

Rather ironic that Joe criticized Flash's decision to let Thawne die when he once tried to shot Earth II Wells thinking he was Thawne.

[@dylanm2517]

Word

[@fierdrages6523]

A person can change you know

[@christopher961]

Eh, well currently Thawne is imprisoned and came to them for help. If he shot him at the station before Thawne’s plea, that would be different. When Joe aimed at Earth 2 Wells, this was a person who literally looked just like Earth 1 Wells, an already case of mistaken identity, but it was because when Thawne is not binded, he is a danger to everyone, just like Barry can be if he wanted to. For all Joe knew, Wells 2 was Thawne and was about to pull something

[@joekokai5765]

If there's anything we've learned from the past is that Thawne always comes back. He's like a Cockroach that doesn't know when to die

[@GZilla311]

When I read what they did to him in the end, I laughed. I don't believe for a SECOND this is permanent.

[@tyjomi71]

Thawne is the true Speed God You can’t kill a God

[@tyjomi71]

The more you kill them the harder they come back

[@ianr.navahuber2195]

@@tyjomi71 Thawne is more than a god. he is a force of nature.

[@taraungoogle8482]

According to the comics, Thawne has traveled and messed with reality so much that he became a "living paradox", a being without a past or future. Thawne exists like time exist, that's is why he keep coming back even if you kill him or a past relative.

[@darrienlewis6137]

Why is there even a debate like there’s no changing Thawne, he killed a lot of people, including Barry’s mother and got his daughter erased, well she’s back tho but still, and even if they do let him get erased he’ll just come back and make things worst

[@Savataric]

yeah but he is still a person

[@PhilipJohn2004]

@@Savataric Tf does that have to do with anything? Then why does Joe shoot at dangerous criminals or meta humans if their just people?

[@Ozinarg]

Joe is full of shit. Back in season... 3? When they were trying out new wells from alternate universes. He saw the new wells, thought it was thawn, and tried to shoot that dude ON SIGHT. Now he wants to prattle on his high horse about saving everybody, AFTER thawn's done a whole bunch more despicable shit, including *killing him.* Joe is stupid as fuck.

[@nkuniverse7856]

@@Ozinarg yep

[@vortechx7176]

@@Ozinarg season 2

[@Abshieje]

Joe literally tried to shoot harry in season 2 thinking he was thawne??? This is so inconsistent

[@allensmith8459]

and he was willing to kill harry for helping zoom AGAINST HIS WILL....

[@jb57551]

Well Joe may have learned from his mistake

[@MonkeyDLuffy-wm7br]

@@allensmith8459 No, Joe wasn't. That's why he threw Harry in the Pipeline. If he hadn't, he would have killed Harry. That's what he said. That means he wasn't going to kill Harry as he maintained his control and calm mind. Also, you guys forget something. Characters get development (more than just more power) as the show/story goes on. Character development is essential to stories. Joe doesn't have the same mindset as he did in seasons 1, 2, 3, etc. It'd be stupid if he did.

[@allensmith8459]

@@MonkeyDLuffy-wm7br ok I remembered that wrong ill give you that but it still doesn't make this decision any less stupid. powered or not leaving thawne alive is basically asking for more trouble and more likely than not the writers are gonna find some way to give thawne his powers back/bring him back. if the writers were actually done with him they would've killed him. Besides, by our own judicial standards he would've gotten the death penalty at least 10x over

[@twinkles190]

Tbf, Harry would have had access to all his powers if he actually had been Thawne, i.e. dangerous. In this situation, Thawne is in a cell and harmless, i.e. not an immediate threat. Pulling his gun on Harry, was an act of self-defense. Pulling a gun on Thawne here, would be pulling a gun on a "theoretically" defenseless man.

[@Jaime13R]

If I was Barry I’d be like “ok I’ll save thawne but ANYTHING AND ANYONE HE HURTS FROM THIS MOMENT FORWARD IS ON ALL OF YOUR HEADS.

[@faiqamel4005]

@Ian Gardner thawne😡😡😡

[@faiqamel4005]

@Ian Gardner wtf how u are on youtube i thiught u were just a character

[@faiqamel4005]

@Ian Gardner no you are really thawne

[@anindyadutta65]

Pinki bon khanki maghi

[@criscabrera9098]

I would been like okay well save him but next time he does something you guys can stop him and count me out

[@Rende20]

I suppose the convo should be like this : “we must let Thawne die bcus we have been suffering since season 1 , but we can let him live to carry the show for upcoming season” 🤣🤣🤣

[@hxmzix]

2:52 I HAVE NEVER SEEN JOE THIS MAD. I WOULD HATE TO BE BARRY OR IRIS RN.

[@afrobuddy4801]

I honestly hated joe in this scene. Superb acting but the anger and rage he was defending thawne made no sense. You would think thawne was someone he was close to or something

[@dcworld4349]

I know it's a deleted scene but Joe did threaten to hunt down Thawne and end him if Barry was hurt in the season 1 finale. He shot the disguised Hannibal Bates Wells. Then when he thought Thawne was back when it was Harry he didn't hesitate and shot three times. And would have succeeded if Barry hadn't gotten faster. Eric Wallace as a showrunner destroyed the show. The one character who wouldn't be against this is Joe. And they broke his back to twist him into a shape. So they could use him as a counter mouth piece because they realized that what Thawne did was so unforgivable non of the original team should have a problem with letting Thawne fade out of time.

[@DannsProductions]

The "new kids" are making no sense, Flash is not going to kill Thawne. He going to let the timeline take him away.

[@matthewturner279]

Anybody else feel the disappointment in Joe’s voice calling Barry and Iris? Man I felt like I was in trouble.

[@nkuniverse7856]

Same lol

[@Beelzebub066]

Yes me

[@TroyNaumu808]

The best way to prevent the Reverse Flash is prevent him from becoming Reverse-Flash. Change the incident that started Thawne on his path of hatred in the first place.

[@ericx6969]

Or lock him somewhere to rot

[@greenightponydragon5127]

May I remind you the reverse flash is the main vessel for the negative speed force even if you kill thawne realistically another will rise in his place.

[@satukayu4706]

Bruhh....if you do that,timeline will disturb too

[@rayburks7059]

@@satukayu4706 but he's from the future not the past the present wouldn't be touched unless you make it so Barry doesn't have his speed which causes the obsession to no longer exist

[@rayburks7059]

So basically get rid of the flash

[@gregjenkinson7512]

Soooo have they all forgotten that Iris shot Savitar? And that Barry let the time wraiths turn Zoom into an undead speedster reaper? What's wrong with letting Thawne fade out?

[@KojinMacJorn]

None of them came to them for help. Thawne did. He is now a victim; of his own circumstances, but a victim never the less.

[@smf6765]

2:52 Old John is so old that he can't even distinguish the difference between an ultimatum and a choice.

[@MyahUnleashed]

When Joe said Barry and Iris name like that I was like that's not good.

[@Eldritch-1]

Needs a mental health check what the fuck is he even saying this is Thawne a guy who travelled time to murder a child over a petty slight why isnt everybody putting ounds into him?

[@DaneWinter1213]

@@Eldritch-1 Becuase CW Writers lol

[@cyrilconanan6054]

Lmao it's like that moment where your mom calls you by your full name

[@kld2009]

@@DaneWinter1213 It's so stupid. Iris killed Savitar by shooting him, in the back. 🤨 Yep. Now I remember why I stop watching this. Inconsistencies. Self-contradictions. Stupid stuff. 🙄

[@MyahUnleashed]

@@cyrilconanan6054 My mom says my fist and middle name when she's mad at me

[@GloriousPM]

I kinda hope that despero succeeds in stopping team flash from saving thawne, I also hope it’s not with a giant fight but instead more of a covert thing

[@cycedetteferrer4286]

Ok I have a theory:Maybe Barry would do the same thing in the comics where he help Thawne, and Thawne became a Good Guy where he really loves the Flash, maybe the ArrowVerse would do the same just like the Comics did to Thawne, is a REDEMPTION

[@Kenro200x]

I'd rather live with awkward moments from Joe than worrying about more Thawne bullshit. He goes bye-bye.

[@sadwdwfr]

Barry: I'm not gonna kill Thawne .Despro if you want him dead do it yourself... Desporo : No you kill him. If I kill him he'll find a way back Also Desporo when Barry isn't gonna kill Thawne: if he's not gonna do it I'll do it myself.. ARE THE WRITERS HEARING THEMSELVES?

[@OmegaII]

Desporo: I would, but he COULD come back. Flash killing has better chance of working, that is all.

[@Cittadini07]

He isn’t just going to kill him he is going to try and get him erased so (e is permanently dead. He didn’t say he was going to kill him he said he is going to permanently end him

[@afrobuddy4801]

@@Cittadini07 stop trying to defend bad writing

[@Tywil714]

Yeah it makes no fucking sense ok since thawne is gonna die rgardless from earsing why dosnt despero just to take him somewhere and let thawne die there that way its out of barrys hands

[@chiffon788]

Haven't paid attention outside of crossovers for a bit, Thawne's still the guy who killed Barry's mom, right? Him killing Joe was erased from the timeline, but he still killed Nora, right?

[@tomngo7364]

Without Reverse Flash then there isn’t the Flash show

[@spiritualjalen220]

Flash has many more villains thawne is just the main one

[@ansutoure5583]

@@spiritualjalen220 right and they’ve brought him back so many times it’s time to let him die because I don’t know if they’re saving it for the 2000 fight with him and Barry but like that should’ve happened in crisis and it didn’t so I feel like at this point they should just kill him because of this one he’s just coming around so no reason it’s awesome to see him but like there’s so many other villains that didn’t get the same kind of love that he is getting for example Godspeed red death we haven’t seen him yet it’s been three seasons since his name drop and we haven’t seen him yet same with a bunch of other villains

[@Eldritch-1]

yeah it would probably be more intersting and not as lame and boring

[@tomngo7364]

@@Eldritch-1 well Barry wouldn’t have his speed without Thawne

[@cactus374]

@@tomngo7364 ?? Flash would’ve gotten his speed regardless of Thawns interference, he just made it quicker with the particular accelerator.

[@459B]

I remember the movie 'Batman begins', what batman said to Ras Al Gul: 'I won't kill you but I don't have to save you'. I think this is what team flash needs to do, they don't have to save Thawne. Thawne dies because of what he did himself. There is no any obligation for team flash to save him. Barry, Iris and Caitlin know what Thawne is capable of but Chester and Allegra don't. Joe got such a sense of self-righteousness but this is way too strong. They could just let him die because Thawne is not going to change. He will hurt and kill more people if he is saved. The blood will be on those who decide to save him. I really don't agree the point of Joe but I got to say the actor plays really well here.

[@richconner6389]

This comes from the guy who instantly fired 3 bullets at Harry Wells when he first seen him in season 2

[@joaquinurbina1238]

2:30 In my opinion Joe is a hypocrite, does anyone else remember that at the beginning of the second season when they brought Wells from Earth 2, Joe seeing him and thinking that it was Thawne shot him 3 times if not for Barry who saved him? 3:30 and was that a threat? i mean sometimes i wonder that Barry who became Savitar got reasons to hate Joe in the future for what he did to him

[@Cosmicmorales]

I thought the same as well but I realized that this is from a slightly altered timeline. Cuz remember, Barry created Flashpoint.

[@andredawson6748]

Damn Joe came back and already giving a good speech

[@tayc9542]

Yeah Joe don’t play

[@spiritualjalen220]

Lowkey that barry scared tf outta me I had my headphones on blast

[@maaax5092]

How? Joe is the police man out of all ppl he should know some people have to die. Policeman SHOOT at criminals if their life or the other life is in danger. HELL THEY ARE STILL DEATH SENTENCES IN AMERICA

[@g3orgge788]

@@maaax5092 I know right? Thawne has killed hundreds of people and joe is cop and a cop would kill a person like this so what the hell is he talking about?

[@ericx6969]

@@g3orgge788 like bruh it make no sense keep someone so evil that destroyed human civilization planets and timelines lol

[@claritycontrol1530]

They said it themselves. Thawne dying is his own fault. Let karma run its course. Thawne has proven he won't change. If they save his life and he goes on to kill more innocent people, they are just as responsible as him.

[@shaquelcunningham9135]

When joe gets mad its scary

[@tayc9542]

Facts

[@ADDodd]

"Uh... I'm the Freakin Flash. WTF are you talking some complete bullshit?"

[@khashmoney6985]

Thawne: I need more time. Kang the Conqueror: I can give you that

[@theosmith6275]

Never seen Joe so pissed off before.

[@dvineforever5002]

Oscar winning acting from joe, the seriousness in that scene

[@LordVanOskuro]

You don't need to kill him, but you don't need to save him either. Batman has used that logic towards Ra's Al Ghul twice. The 2nd time was a better representation though.

[@ajsabum]

Oh look, the complete character assassination of Joe West. The person who literally shot 3 bullets at Harry Wells with the intent to kill.

[@AzguardMike]

the way Jessie Martins (Joe West) ROARS "Always have a choice!" made me jump. Amazing actor.

[@veronstross2913]

So guy kills lots of people and rucks with everyone, he’s going to die and gives the puppy dog eyes to those he’s hurt the most and suddenly he deserves help. You can claim it goes against being a hero but it’s actually counter productive. This is some shirou emyia logic here. Save everybody no matter the consequences right. Screw that. Love thawne as a villain but there is no moral reason to save him. Joe getting made over this choice is just bad writing. If you didn’t want reverse flash to die then don’t write him as dying. You can write him doing just about anything else.

[@gilbertmillers4865]

Exactly I just hate Joe at this point

[@theoutsiderjess1869]

Not only that antagonize everyone that he wants to save him

[@hoodiek6802]

It's not bad writing at all you just don't understand it.Barry is a hero Who has never taken a life before. Even his worst enemies he still tried to help . Barry never k1lled anyone Even If the timeline was Going to kill Thawne they were literally deciding if they should just let.Joe knew everything thawne did and knows he's a monster So he told them to find another way Chain him up. If anything that's good writing it shows Pa pa Joe is being just that A Dad

[@veronstross2913]

@@hoodiek6802 ironic that joe tried to shoot dr wells on site in season 2 thinking he was thawne. I suppose hero’s who always find a way can be praised. But as far as writing goes I’m sure they could have found a better way or at least someone else. Saying berry has never killed anyone is a stretch. He has never directly killed anyone, but he has caused the deaths of a few villains. Zoom, that savitar (i don’t recall the spelling.) plus flash has rewirten the timeline altering my everything with little regards to others. I won’t defend the writing mostly because flash looses fights to people who don’t have super speed. People get away running around on foot from him when the story says they need to get away.

[@rebeccaliar9873]

This argument is such bullshit. Joe was fully willing to kill this bastard before he confessed to Nora Allen's murder back in Season 1 (the Hannibal Bates incident), and Thawne has only killed more and more and more since then. And Barry is NOT fucking obligated to keep Thawne alive, especially when Thawne has promised that this will change nothing and he will keep killing Flash and his entire family over and over again in every way he can.

[@tayc9542]

It’s not bs because if Barry let Thawne die, it will affect him later and plus do you know what will happen to Barry’s powers if he dies tbh? Plus if you just do your best for the people you like and let the people you don’t like die then your not a hero, you don’t just turn your back on someone who ask you for help in a situation like that.

[@tayc9542]

And plus that was in season 1, you can’t expect him to act the same seasons later

[@rebeccaliar9873]

@@tayc9542 Nothing will happen to Barry's powers. Thawne got killed at the end of Season 1 and that didn't break Barry's powers. Thawne is the one who draws his powers from Barry, not the other way around. And this isn't about something as widespread as "you have to help assholes", Thawne literally promised in the previous scene that he would keep trying to kill Barry and he has such an enormous kill count that in one possible future he was literally on death row.

[@tayc9542]

@@rebeccaliar9873 Hm? I thought without Reverse flash Barry wouldn’t have his powers and I mean Thawne technically didn’t die die. I meant like if he is dead dead but well not everything is comic accurate idk. But still they did the right thing because i feel like if they let Thawne die it could effect something tbh

[@rebeccaliar9873]

@@tayc9542 Yes, Reverse-Flash caused the incident that gave Barry his powers. But that incident has already happened. It cannot be un-happened. And the only thing that killing Thawne would affect is that they'd need to find a new way to bring him back to life when they remember he's the only good part of this show. Thawne isn't important, he's a punk obsessed with ruining the life of someone who has always, and will always, beat him.

[@jokerknight1247]

You realise how Barry and Team Flash was talking about Thawne, the One Earth Regime probably could’ve happened?

[@kevinlopezcastellanos4263]

I spent some time reflecting on this scene and I think it all boils back to that moment after Barry was tricked by Snart and then he released the Rogues back in "Rogue Air". Joe said that Barry is the type of man who sees the best in people, unlike Joe who believes himself incapable of doing it because of his years as a cop making only open to seeing flaws and lies. Joe explicitly said he wishes he could be Barry and I think as the show went on, Joe started trying to be more like Barry and be willing to give others chances at redemption. He looks at Barry and Iris as his heroes for changing his perspective. That's why I think he was angry. It wasn't just anger at Barry and Iris for making the choice to let Thawne die. It was anger, frustration and sadness over how Thawne has hardened Barry and Iris so much that they were willing to compromise everything Team Flash stands for. And I think he's angry at himself for not doing more to ease their pain from what Thawne has done to the family over the years. He's angry that his children, "his HEROES", are willing to set aside their morality and sense of justice in order to stop Thawne. It's something he wished would never happen. That his heroes would become that jaded that they were beginning to pick who lives and who dies. He feels that if Barry and Iris went through with that decision, they would have lost their light and never come back from that decision. And from then on, Joe's heroes would be gone forever in his eyes. And that is why he got so angry.

[@sonario6489]

Everyone except Joe: Let Thawne die. By the end of the episode, everyone except Joe and Despero: Let Thawne live!

[@Pres100]

God Mia is so fine like wtf marry me already

[@ItzHope1412]

So Joe is stupid now? Joe, Thawne fucking KILLED YOU! And you still push Barry to save him?!

[@marvelfuture2057]

I know right

[@MrFraknak]

Everyone keeps saying how the writing of the show is getting better again. This scene here just shows me how bad it still is. This whole scene is ridiculous. 1st season Joe would have agreed with his kids.

[@marvelfuture2057]

Yep

[@joekerr971]

That's why I root for the villains, even tho it's in vain

[@BionicSpider]

@@joekerr971 At this point the Heros are more Villainous then the actual villians.

[@fictionverse7292]

Well he changed for the better

[@sarama7579]

@@fictionverse7292 definitely not

[@khuechuong]

Joe back and being annoying for the first time ever lol. I get his point but why he so mad like wtf? From what I know he should have calmly talk and let them know that it’s their decision and there might be consequences? I’m all for letting thawne go. But to say he will be the one to break family if they let him die? Right after he said he want thawne dead too. Remember in season 2 when joe shot wells thinking he’s thawne? What a hypocrite. Joe just became one of my least fav

[@spiritualjalen220]

The actors getting paid hella for this shiiii I would be angry to 💀

[@adamrussell9389]

In the comics thawne is a living paradox thanks to the negative speedforce. If barry strip him of it, he can't travel through time and will stop messing with flash. We all know how well reverse flash came back after being erased. Hopefully if he is stripped of it, he can't pose any more danger for some time.

[@glydoughnut9432]

I bet Joe regrets this after the most recent episode

[@AlienSteel5253]

Joe West, the voice of reason. And DAMN! I’ve never seen him so upset since he learned that Savitar is gonna kill Iris

[@Eldritch-1]

maybe he liked being dead and not having to deal with super humans?

[@SrEobardThawne]

the voice of bad reason

[@SladeX2000]

The same dude that literally shot an innocent man for looking like Thawne >_>

[@AB-tf2ik]

Why's he so mad they're not killing him it's the timeline getting things straight

[@Beelzebub066]

Yeah and plus aint he already dead so it shouldn't matter

[@yourboymalikcoleman8731]

Exactly

[@JKumar100]

Damn straight!! Team Flash don't need to do anything. It's Time getting things straight.

[@Darth-z8v]

YOU ALWAYS HAVE A CHOICE!! Joe is so badass lol

[@NativeCommieAdora]

Also. I love how iris and Barry really did agree on stuff this episode while other episodes dealing with thawne like last time with Nora was iris being an ass to Barry.

[@Scarkesley]

When you have a psychopathic murder who runs around at speeds you can’t even comprehend causing as much destruction and death as possible maybe it’s in the best interest of everyone if he’s killed but idk why use common sense

[@Asterx5]

Thawne is my favourite character but the fact that someone Especially like Joe wanted to save his life is beyond me

[@JoeFanik]

Most criminals deserve to go to jail to rot for everything they've done. It's the villains like Joker and Thawne, the ones that will NEVER stop no matter what you do, that deserve to die.

[@marvelfuture2057]

This is why superheroes and supervillains don't exist in real life their logic would could kill us all

[@jcaracole]

Barry : He killed you ! Joe : We protect everyone ! That's what Heroes do ! Barry : He banged Iris ! Joe : Can I shoot him ?

[@stevendchu]

Since when do we let people die? -Barry called the Time Wraiths on Zoom and turned him into Black Flash -Iris shot Evil Emo Barry and let him get erased -literally pulled the plug on The Thinker and his chair -idk about the other villians bc I stopped watching

[@AgentYellowWang]

the thing is all of them need to be stop right there since they can't capture at that time.

[@thedeanogaming]

Barry throw a lightning at Sand Demon to turned him into glass back in early season 2 alongside Jay Garrick/Hunter Zolomon and Atom Smasher become bathed with radiation thanks to Cisco and Barry. They ended up did some killing before but they never called themselves out on it.

[@Itz_eddzofficial]

I like how *Joe* council his two siblings by giving them a serous talk and something to think about deeply.

[@argentumseth8878]

Siblings lol

[@jetguy128]

Something is wrong with Joe here. There must be side effect from reverse flashpoint. Why would he get so mad and warn about family breaking up because of Thawne? He knows what Thawne did to Barry. Even if he is concerned surely he should surely understand why Barry would choose not to save the man who ruined his life. Since when did he care so much about Eobard? Why didn't Barry mention his mother as a reason not to save the villain? Barry would have risked his life for another villain, but saving Eobard is a whole different story. Is Joe that ignorant? Who does he think he is yelling at Barry like that? I would not be so mad if Joe tried to convince him warmly, but no he just had to point fingers at the Flash. Could it be mirror Joe?

[@henryromero4743]

​@@jetguy128 not to mention joe(as far as i remember) tried to kill eobard once or twice(once the shapeshifter guy from season 1 he killed and then harriso wells from earth 2)

[@jetguy128]

@@henryromero4743 He is either a hypocrite or fake Joe.

[@farolddatrinidade6149]

@@jetguy128 no jie always help if they ask him even the villains.

[@OptimusWombat]

Joe is being ridiculous. This is not unlike all the times that Batman could've killed Joker but didn't, which allowed Joker to escape time and again and kill even more people.

[@pokemonmc7798]

In this case, letting him go in S7 led to Armaggedon now. And in the same way, Injustice shows what happens when Joker kills the wrong person by Batman letting him live for too long. In both cases, it basically leads to the end of the world. I don't see why he's defending him because in S2 he literally tried to kill Harry with a gun instantly... so...

[@michaelkean5969]

the difference is tho Batman letting Joker escape constantly is actually apart of why Batman is such a compelling character because every Batman Game,Comic,Series,Movie etc have always showed why Batman's ironclad no killing rule is not actually a good thing and is one of Bruce Wayne/Batman's massive character flaws. the under the red hood animated movie (the original AKA the good one) went into this and explored it perfectly. Batman explains why he doesn't just kill the Joker because he's terrified of himself he admits to Jason that if he did Kill Joker he'd get a taste for it and would never stop. this is a compelling character trait to Bruce Wayne and him and Joker's dynamic relies heavily on this trait and it has lead to some of the best Batman stories ever written. Flash has no such level of dynamic with Thawne. Thawne is just a petty villain with no motive that just happens to be written in a semi-competent manor Thawne has nowhere near the level of staying power as the Joker does nor as deep a connection to Barry as the flash writers like to think he does.

[@rickwinthrop6685]

Joe's speech is making me cry.

[@afrobuddy4801]

Yeah same, I am crying at how stupid it is

[@joshheralal8758]

@@afrobuddy4801 I can feel the edge.

[@adolphgracius9996]

Normal people stay dead, meanwhile thawne: "My Death was....... Greactly exagerated''

[@MysticalChampion341]

Thawne is smart. He carefully calculated all this. He knew that team flash would save him, otherwise he wouldn't have gone to Barry. He knew how Joe would react if they chose not to save him and that Barry wouldn't risk losing his family and will always be the hero.

[@matthiasck]

Joe’s speech is crazy flawed. Yes as a protector, you save those who can’t help themselves. But you can’t save or help those who continuously enjoy hurting others and refuse to change. Ted Bundy is the perfect example of someone you can’t and don’t save, or else you and others suffer the consequences. The Reverse Flash isn’t a rapist but he damn sure is a monster who refuses to let go of his hate for Barry and takes pleasure in hurting and/or killing those connected to him and other superheroes. Remember when he ripped out Atom’s heart in LEGENDS with zero hesitation. An experienced cop like Joe would realize this too and not lecture Barry and Iris for their decision. Forget the attitude. Even if he didn’t agree with their choice, he’d support their decision and let them decide without acting like the Reverse Flash didn’t happily kill Barry’s mother and constantly put others in danger. These CW writers are smoking their own farts 💨

[@davidjacksonjr.3840]

It was good to see joe in this episode i hope to see him more he brought the dad and the police officer force talk on Barry and iris

[@llleonardo_king6408]

Joe's got a point you know, we all know Joe's one to actually determined to kill Thawne but he holds himself for the sake of the greater good, remember when Joe fired 3 shots at Harrison mistaking him for Eobard....

[@jb57551]

"Remember when Joe fired 3 shots at Harrison/Harry mistaking him for Eobard?" That is EXACTLY why the scene is contradictory here. I mean NOW Joe already could distinguish the Wellses (Earth-2 Harry, Earth-19 HR, Earth-221 Sherloque and Earth-? Nash and even the REAL Earth-1 Wells) from Eobard. So if you ACTUALLY got Eobard about to die/erase from existence, why not let him be? Before you give me the "If you let him die you'll be as bad as him" argument. Keep in mind that NOBODY is actually gonna pull an Anti-Hero action like mutilating and torturing Eobard, if anything they are lettin him be. So they are NOT killing him, NOR do they initially plan to save him

[@eshaansimha3625]

This is one of those cases where that one person really contributes to the group project, just they do the wrong assignment

[@JoelMiller431]

Well that explains why Mia is attacking Team Flash in the promo photos