Terminator 2: Judgement Day Deep Dive Review

#tyandthatguy #reaction #review #terminator2 #terminator2
TERMINATOR 2: JUDGEMENT DAY DEEP DIVE REVIEW
Ty Franck (one half of James S.A. Corey) and Wes Chatham ('Amos Burton' on The Expanse) finish the Terminator movies (yes there are only 2 that exist) and recap one of the best sequels ever made.
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[@jamesmoriarty7796]

I love that Wes plays Captain Enoch. One of the coolest looking stormtroopers I’ve ever seen

[@dallesamllhals9161]

Who?

[@princepsbellum3413]

Ahsoka as a series completely sucked, though. Wes deserved better.

[@daisuke133]

Let's just hope that in season 2, he gets to say W E L C O M E B A C K to Ahsoka.

[@charlottegerken4477]

Oh wow... didn't even realize that was him... now I gotta go back and rewatch Ahsoka knowing he's in it!

[@targe762]

I had no idea but guessed when I saw the helmet. Loved him in Expanse who doesn't.

[@user-ro9lu7uo1j]

Ty: "Pretty fit for an old guy." Arnie in T2: "*several years younger than Wes now*"

[@Bonko78]

They are very close. Arnold was born in 1947 and was 44 when he made T2. Wes was born in 1978 and is now 45. It's fascinating to think that Arnie was already 35 when he did Conan the Barbarian and 40 when he did Predator! He became a movie star later in his life than most people realize but his physique makes it easy to forget.

[@shanepye7078]

I liked the idea in lore that the T-1000 never made it out of the prototype phase because it couldn’t be switched to read only like previous terminators, and the T-1000 had a high probability of becoming totally sentient and possibly turning on Skynet. Bottom line, Skynet knew that it couldn’t control the T-1000 forever and saw it as a threat.

[@SLKRR]

I was in high school and one of my friends worked at the local movie theater. He let me sit in with him and a couple other employees and watch the movie at midnight a couple of days before it released. One of the most amazing cinematic experiences ever to see it in essentially a private viewing. Absolutely incredible. I went back and watched it a few more times later.

[@desanc33]

The deleted scene of turning on the terminator's learning ability had another key character development moment. Sarah wants to destroy the chip to kill the terminator while John says no. He challenges her that how can he be this great leader if his own mother won't follow his ideas. She realizes he is right and doesn't destroy the chip.

[@yamagata008]

Being an Ahsoka fan, I really appreciate the character mask you wore in that series. Wes, thank you for sharing that in background. It was a thrill to see.

[@Paul-vf2wl]

Were you still a fan after watching the series?

[@sail3695]

You guys have taught so many master classes. I love your commentaries.

[@miller-joel]

Ty forgot about Empire Strikes Back.

[@HungryEyes-sl3mu]

Godfather II Mad Max: Road Warrior Beverly Hills Cop II

[@GilesGuthrie]

This is my favourite ever movie. I've seen it a million times. But the way you guys talked through it was super-interesting and it was great to hear your perspective

[@Jackomack]

One of my favorites is how John was fully convinced that Arnold was a Terminator because he stood on one leg

[@princepsbellum3413]

Wasn't Arnold shot like 20 times, went through walls and fought of T-1000 first, though? 😂

[@Jackomack]

@@princepsbellum3413 Kids, amirite?

[@Mortys_Toilet_Attendant]

Wes going off on one about Johns attitude to his foster parents 😂😂😂

[@JustinStarrPhotography]

You guys inspired me to sit and rewatch the movie again. I totally forgot that when we first meet Robert Patrick as the T-1000, he kills the cop with a thrusting stabbing movement, but we don’t see his arm/hand - we don’t see it has (most likely) become a blade. And then there’s a cut to him already dressed in the uniform - we don’t see the transformation. We are misled to assume he took the cop’s clothes. What an utterly brilliant choice by Cameron to save the reveal for later in film when he fights with Arnold.

[@vincentmccormack3629]

I’ve the DVD with the metal box, and have watched no other version since, I didn’t realise the scene resetting the chip was cut from the theatrical release!

[@jeffrh63]

I heard someone describe the two movies this way: T1 is a horror flick, T2 is a science fiction flick.

[@Dre7]

Regarding the T1000 and not touching clothes in the future, the T800 said it was a prototype. So it probably went right from production to the time displacement equipment

[@peterlenham3180]

Its also a storytelling device. They obviously didn't want to give way that hes also a Terminator.

[@yamagata008]

LOL! I loved this intro! I tune in each week just see Wes and Ty will do in the intro. This was priceless. The episode was a great treatise on Terminator and John Cameron. Thank you guys for doing this! Excellent!

[@GazpachoTabletop]

The thing about that chip removal scene in the garage is that if it was included in the theatrical release, you couldn't have Carl in Dark Fate. But I doubt it could have saved that movie lol

[@plexibertrand]

Random Arnold trivia: Arnold is neck & neck with Bill Paxton, Sylvester Stalone, and Elvira for appearing on the most pinball machines. By my last count I think Elvira holds the lead.

[@DoctorX101]

Now THAT is a trivia question!

[@Paul-vf2wl]

Personally I only count the new ones that come out in 3 or 4 different price versions as 1 machine.

[@plexibertrand]

@@Paul-vf2wl We are counting machines the same way.

[@Vatolicious]

New cameras! Now I can be jealous of Wes in 4k.

[@peterlenham3180]

It actually makes perfect sense how the time travel works. When they go back in time, an alternate timeline and reality is created. Also, the reason why other Terminator films exist, is because they exist in their own realities and timelines. So for instance, when Reece goes back in time in the original film, he goes back to an alternate timeline in that reality. That is how his future can exist, but hasnt happened in Sarah's future yet. Other realities also explains how John, Sarah, Reece and Miles look different in the other films. One last thing. Wes has actually worked with Robert Patrick on The Unit.

[@LukeLovesRose]

The Terminator and T2 were the Star Wars and Empire Strikes Back for my generation. The Terminator is possibly the greatest "B-movie" ever made. By that i mean, it is the greatest low-budget sci-fi ever produced. Some of the effects stand out like a sore thumb. But The Terminator is still a great inspiration for future filmmakers. Cameron showed us what can be possible on a small budget and its freaking amazing. T2 on the other hand is the greatest action movie ever made. Cameron showed us whats possible once youve established yourself in the industry. And its freaking phenomenal. I mean, Linda Hamilton was so great in T2, she made Sarah Connor one of the greatest, strongest, most iconic female roles ever put on film. Her Sarah Connor is right up there with Cameron's own Ellen Ripley in Aliens and Scarlett O'Hara in Gone With The Wind. There is far more depth to the character of Sarah Connor in T2 than anything in the original film. She goes full Taxi Driver on Miles Dyson. "I need a vacation" probably came from Miles Dyson. Its ambiguous. You do not need to show EVERYTHING for everything else to make sense. Stop underestimating James Cameron. I'm sure you guys have never actually studied the use of art direction and set design in James Cameron's masterpieces. All you focus on is the shot. Not what's in the background and how it relates to the foreground. How it all relates to the characters and stories. Look for all of the instances that the number 57 shows up in the background in Aliens.

[@AthAthanasius]

The thing about the Terminator movies and its version of time travel is that the main axiom is "No Fate". Time can be changed. You can argue whether this is just multi-verse and we see a different universe in each movie. Fold in the idea in Charles Stross' "Palimpset" (short story his collection "Wireless") where the moment you have time travelled (it's stepping through a portal in his version) your timeline is cut off from before that point, with the Universe considering you mass/energy that's just popped into existence and you can explain why: 1) Things don't play out as "they had before". 2) Changing things doesn't result in a causal paradox. However, this *does* mean that you have to posit *at least* one prior version of the timeline where John Connor was born of Sarah Connor and became the great resistance leader, after SkyNet was created and caused the nuclear war in 1997. Yes, this means that before the first movie *someone else* was John's father... er, maybe Kyle Reece's father somehow ? But, yeah, without these sorts of axioms any time travel story quickly becomes a mess, and these might not even be sufficient.

[@davidcoleman757]

Another banger of a show. Need to check out that out-take scene. Keep doing what you do, guys; thanks for the entertainment and insight.

[@MaxiTB]

Austrian, Wes, Austrian, not Australian (1:04:36). We don't have jumping rats in Austria. Well, natively we don't. But we got some Australian actors coming in the winter season every year like Chris Helmsworth ;-)

[@Allomorf]

It sounds like Wes says both Austrian and Australian at the same time. To make sure he's got it right

[@ArcaneSorceror]

The Terminator Resistance is a must-play for fans of the OG Terminator movies

[@xyehsus]

I could listen to you guys talk about a good SciFi movie for 3+ hours. Also, mad respect for the background shelf game you have going

[@DoctorX101]

Still think he first should have asked, "Sarah Conner?"

[@sorscha1308]

Don't get me wrong i do love the theatrical release of T2 it IS the ultimate sci-fi blockbuster popcorn epic. However, if you've never seen the extended cut then you haven't really seen the whole story. It elevates the whole piece SO much. It's honestly like Aliens Special edition, once you've seen it, you really just never want to watch the reader's digest version anymore.

[@Bonko78]

The time travel in Terminator works so well because they never explicitly explain how it works. We never get to see whether the future is changed because of the events in the movies, so that's left to our imagination. All we know is that Skynet is working off the assumption that it does, which is all that is needed for the story to happen. To my knowledge there are two different versions of time travel in movies: The first one uses a continuous timeline (as in "Back to the future") where your present self could basically go back in time and kill your past self before travelling, after which both versions of you would cease to exist. This is a theory rife with paradoxes but can still be entertaining if done right. The other common version used in movies is the one with multiple timelines, where the time traveller creates a new branch of events from the moment they arrive (used in "Avengers: Endgame", "Primer", etc). If your present self goes back to kill your past self, only your past self will die. Terminator is probably meant to use the continuous timeline, but if it used multiple timlines it can theoretically work without paradoxes. Anyway, a very nice deep dive as usual!

[@ptonpc]

Missed it live.

[@OffRampTourist]

Guess I need to see that extended cut now.

[@CostanSequeiros]

The thing with the philosophy of timetravel is that there are two main currents. First one is the multiple timelines, where you timetravel, change something and this creates the "new" timeline with the new events and the old one no longer exists (Back to the Future, for example). The second one is Terminator 1 and 2, which is the idea that there is only one time line so there was always a terminator timetraveling to the past, and so on. It doesn't erase the time paradox of the hand, but it ties everything else into it since, afterall, the whole thing actually achieves no changes at all in the timeline: John is born from the man sent back since the beginning (a second paradox, how could he have been the rebel leader "the first time" if no one had yet travelled to the past he wasn't born) but the terminator fails to kill Sarah; and then the new terminator fails again but still the end of the world is not averted and Skynet is created. So it's just a perfect example of the one only timeline philosophy, and that's why everything in the end is futile, because it has always been that way (and the main problem with adding new films and stuff because either you become inconsistent, or you are irrelevant unless you tell stories in the unknown - the future; plus they're bad).

[@IanGilmore]

The other sequels aren't very interesting, but the TV show The Sarah Connor Chronicles had some interesting ideas.

[@monicafelstead3260]

Now I have to see that deleted scene Ty describes! Because yeah, Arnold's Terminator in the 2nd movie had shades of Jar Jar Binks....

[@jpavlik04]

Best sequels of all time in no particular order: T2 Aliens Back to the Future 2 Shrek 2 Godfather 2 Wrath of Khan Empire Strikes Back Evil Dead 2 Temple of Doom Top Gun Maverick LOTR Two Towers Spiderman 2 The Dark Knight

[@GazpachoTabletop]

14:20 I think the T1000 goes back naked because the way the film is shot (if you hadn't had it spoiled yet) is to make the audience think the T1000 is the good guy. We don't see him shape shift into a cop uniform even But idk from an in universe reason

[@hbdude155]

peep that enoch mask, such a cool role

[@Stolen_]

Cyberdine was a big company with lots of people and the future was already predetermined since the end of the first movie Dyson even says so…. The chip took their thinking in a new direction…. The dates might have changed from the future the terminator came from, but the end result will still happen just at a different pace…. The seeds of ideas that result in the future where the world needs John Connor are planted…. Greed will make skynet happen…

[@seanconery]

You guys need to see the Sarah Connor chronicles. The only good sequel to t2.

[@raquelveloz2481]

When I was a kid, T2 was one of my favorite movies. Now as an adult, I find myself preferring T1

[@ZiggySA]

Hello its me. That one guy who likes Highlander II.

[@DaizyCutt3r]

Aliens 3-6 vs Star Wars Ep VII-IX…

[@HobbitFeet42]

Up to a rukus. Yeah, ya think?

[@OffRampTourist]

Aim to misbehave.

[@stanthechanman]

Some other bad sequels for your consideration: Edward Furlong was in one of the sequels to The Crow which was absolutely terrible. Sicario 2 was not terrible but it was extremely average and thus a huge let down compared to the first movie.

[@peternordgren]

Some of just deny that... that movie... even exists.

[@unropednope4644]

Its kinda obvious the t1000 is bad because when he first arrives, he kills that cop without any emotion.

[@LukeLovesRose]

Hey. I like Memoirs of An Invisible Man. In The Mouth of Madness was great. Its Ghost of Mars that was s**t.

[@barryskellern7250]

Highlander 2: There Should Have Been Only One.

[@roovodi]

The crystal skull was not that bad. I consider Indiana Jones quadrology only, thou.

[@targe762]

I love Salvation too, but biased as Im a Huge Christian Bale fan and he is my John Connor. So I include it as my #3 in-canon set, ranked 3rd.

[@cjmassino]

What's Ty's hat?

[@stevepittman3770]

Wow, you ain't kiddin' re:budget. Wikipedia reports the budget at ~$100mil ($225mil today) and it made more than 5 times that back - $520mil (if those numbers aren't adjusted for inflation, that'd be $225mil and $1.2bil today.) Also I'm absolutely with you on Highlander 2. It should've been called 'Highlander 2: There Should Have Been Only One.'

[@shaggycan]

13:45 the only time I've seen time travel done well was in Babylon 5.

[@smithaz1981]

I WAS LOOKING FOR A BILL PAXTON MOVIE CAUSE BILL PAXTON IS BILL PAXTON AND I SAW THAT 4K HAD A MOVIE WITH BILL PAXTON I HADN'T SEEN CALLED ONE FALSE MOVE. BEST BILL PAXTON MOVIE EVER.

[@roovodi]

Not the worst, but really disappointing sequels are of those pirates of the carribians movies AFTER first trilogy. Gore Verbinsky left and movies lost the magic.

[@justinproctor960]

I will say, while Terminator 3 was pretty awful, and the ones that came later even worse; the TV show was actually pretty good, and it's kind of a shame that it was cancelled when it was so that it ended on a cliffhanger; plus the T-800s that appear all being played by different actors instead of Arnold is more in keeping with how they're supposed to be according to the original movie. Also, since Cersei Lannister played Sarah Connor in it, it's kind of weird that Daenerys played her in one of the later movies.

[@calisthenicsmachine9725]

T3 awful? That's the best sequel it was far more faithful to the original than T2, which spat all over T1.

[@simonemason2281]

T3 has nothing on the 1st two but it's my favorite after that@@calisthenicsmachine9725

[@smithaz1981]

TERMINATOR 2 IS A PERFECT MOVIE. SAW IT AT A PACKED DRIVE IN THEATER DURING A MINNESOTA SUMMER. I CRY I LAUGH I IMITATE I GET NERVOUS. I MEAN SKYNET. CAMERON KNOWS THE FUTURE NEEDS TO BE LOOKING FOR UFOS WITH ADMIRAL TIM GALLAUDET.

[@kerrissedai6857]

I happen to love Jaws 2 and Grease 2😂

[@flee4urlives]

the 1st one is better because it doesnt have a kid in it.

[@moonrazk]

Dark Fate is kinda OK, it's the only sequel I kinda liked.

[@simonemason2281]

Blues Brothers 2000 was a huge disappointment to me. Loved the first one.

[@OffRampTourist]

I treat it like a series of music videos but only watch it every 5 years so so.

[@SuperCutealien]

Arnold’s net worth for 2024 is estimated at $450 million.

[@pacodance29]

Jurassic Park sequels

[@ChrisGwilliam83]

👍🏻🔔

[@user-ro9lu7uo1j]

If you're going with the threequel, how the hell does Godfather Part III not top every list?!

[@roovodi]

Worst sequels ever? Disney's Star wars, hands down.

[@williamlloyd3769]

Arnold was a billionaire before the divorce but who knows now but who cares

[@abdialvarez1929]

PACIFIC RIM UPRISING 🤢

[@HungryEyes-sl3mu]

Ty and Wes acting like Shrek 2 isn't right there (as one of the greatest sequels, obvs).

[@muttsnuts1982]

Independence day 2 is my worst sequel. Such am awful film. Generally nowadays I never look forward to sequels, apart from spiderman 3 they are never shown love

[@simonemason2281]

There are some movies I pretend never happened. That's definitely one of them 🙈🙉🙊

[@milesdecker1]

Ow come on guys jaws 2 is a great movie not as good as the first but it's nowhere near jaws 3d and 4 also terminator salvation is actually pretty good I like Christian bale as john connor and anton yelchin rip I loved him he was a pretty good young kyle reese he was believable amd terminator 3 is just ok worse than salvation and a redoing of T2 basically but at least salvation they tried to do something new but very true to honoring the fans and the mythology of the terminator universe give it a chance t5 and t6 I completely understand I still think you guys should watch it though for the crazy ways it messes with the franchise

[@BrianSherman-TheTVGod]

Hot take: Terminator 3: Rise of the Machines is a better movie than T2. PS - no appreciation for Robert Patrick's dong?

[@canht95]

Hot take: I liked Terminator Salvation more than Terminator 2; Terminator 1 is probably the best one

[@calisthenicsmachine9725]

T1 is the best one. I put T3 over T2, which is seen as a hot take as well.

[@Browncoat66]

T3 Kristanna Loken❤