Terminator 4K Big Screen Review With Images From My Projector

[@LordDementus1987]

I have it. It's not bad, but it just could have been so much better. I'll start off with the fact that it's an upscale, not a new 4K scan. The audio is a remix, not the original mono like the old Laserdisc has. None of the extras are here like we had on the DVD. Really wish they would have let Kino Lorber or Arrow do this one instead.

[@doublebillmovies]

Yes it's definitely an upscale. To be honest. The state of the original negatives if scared in 4K other 4K's wouldn't have yielded much more that what we have here. The 2K master that was used didn't look very good on Blu-ray, I checked my bd copy after I did this video. I personally would have preferred a 4K scan and have this 4K look closer to what was released in cinemas, no matter what it looked like. Than this AI interpretation of what it could have looked like had James Cameron had access to better film stock. No audio mix on a 4K is ever going to be the original cinema mix because since VHS and Laserdisc they been remastering the audio to give an "improved" home cinema experience. These new DTS-HD MASTER encodes are thin and have no or little low end and everyone want a bloody Dolby Atmos mix, which does my head in. I have a really good sound system with a huge subwoofer yet I don't get the think rumble I did on DVD Dolby Digital mixes when I had cheap 5.1 The mix on this 4K is impressive and actually does carry some decent weight. The bin truck scene actually sounds like I'm Stood next to I watching. Sadly the Mono mix is a DTS-HD MASTER encode, so you're right. Even that isn't "original" Thanks for watching. Trevor

[@LordDementus1987]

@@doublebillmovies Regardless, JC and WB should have been honest about the source and mastering provenance. Especially if we are spending big money on these releases. It's like when MOFI lied about using all-analog sources for their remasters then later we find out a lot of them are DSD. This is better than what we got on Blu-ray, but that mono track is still heavily filtered, not the same one that came on Laserdisc. FWIW, some DVDs carried over the Laserdisc tracks. I own a few examples myself.

[@doublebillmovies]

@LordDementus1987 yes some DVDs definitely have the Theatrical audio. Some early Bluray's do too. The PCM encodes are direct from the mixing desk. I don't think we were ever lied to about Terminator. We knew that the previous JC releases were upscales so Terminator wasn't going to be any different. However, transparency from the studios like we get from the Boutique labels (most of the time) would be nice. Trevor

[@MadMartysMovieReviews-gv6hk]

Excellent vid Trevor, mine arrived yesterday, I'm looking forward to watching it..I'm glad the transfer is excellent 😊

[@doublebillmovies]

I'll be sure to check out your review fella. I hope you like it as much as I did. Trev

[@coolerhash]

Great video Trevor as always, Mine should be here tomorrow and after seeing your review I'm really looking forward to it. All the best my friend, Jer

[@doublebillmovies]

Thank you Jer as always. I'm sure you'll love it. Be sure to let me know. Trevor

[@cheekster777]

Someone (who shall remain nameless) posted this info regarding the new 4K UHD Blu-ray of The Terminator. “The actual “old” master is the original 2008 MGM Blu-Ray that used MPEG-2 compression. The “remastered in 4K” Blu-Ray that came out in 2013 was done from a 4K scan of the negative that was downrezzed to 2K, had the clean up done, and then the cleaned up 2K was uprezzed back to 4K. I worked for the company that did the work at the time it was happening. The 4K digital master was also filmed back out to a new archival 35mm print. I agree that the new “4K” disc is simply the 2013 master dressed up with a new filter or two. The funny thing is, it’s “fake” 4K even though the negative was actually scanned at 4K. But the reality (not many film nerds wants to admit this) is that it really wouldn’t have made a difference in this case. I’ve seen the 4K scan, the 2K downres pre- and post cleanup, and the 4K upres from the 2K, and I can tell you you’re not missing anything. The added “enhancement” to the 4K disc, well... YMMV of course. I hate the color timing revision already and I watch a custom regraded version of the 2013 blu-ray whenever I choose to sit down for the film. It’s my #1 movie of all time, so that’s pretty often. As for the sound, I am also surprised they finally “did the right thing” by including the mono track but I am not at all surprised that it sounds poor compared to the laserdisc. Sometimes you just can’t win.”

[@doublebillmovies]

Interesting. It was a 2006 BD unless bluray.com is wrong. Also a 2012 remaster. The 4K scans back then weren't as good, I don't think as they are now. Saying that. The Bond films were scanned back in the early 2000s and they looked fantastic. What we we're missing is the natural grittiness of the film. Also the original colour grading. Colour timing is where they match the colours from shit to shot in the same scene. Grading is the overall colour look of the finished film. I think I'll have to get the 2006 🇺🇸 BD as I loved the original Predator BD which was also an MPEG2. Trev

[@LukeLovesRose]

Soo many great Christmas gifts this year

[@doublebillmovies]

Oohhj. What else you hoping for? Trevor

[@LukeLovesRose]

@doublebillmovies The new 4K of North by Northwest and Aliens. I know Aliens is controversial but I still want it. Aliens is my favorite sci-fi

[@doublebillmovies]

Ooh cool. You'll be happy with Aliens. It just has a modern feel to it like James Cameron wanted originally. Hopefully we get the negatives scan we all wanted one day. Enjoy your Christmas Presents. Trevor

[@dinny7777]

Watched it back in 1984 as a teenager on 35mm in CinemaScope on its release in my local one screen cinema in Ireland...awesome. Sadly the cinema closed in 1990. I saw all the great 80's films there Rambo 2, Aliens, Robocop, Predator. Great times.

[@doublebillmovies]

They sound like great memories. I've caught up on some of the 80s classics at the cinema but they've all been digital presentations. I definitely got to see a lot on 35mm when I was a kid. Wrath Of Khan, Superman III and IV just to name a few. Those were the days huh!? Not this bland digital age. Thanks for watching. Trevor

[@davemillage6129]

Morning Trevor! Stayed up late and put this on going all the way through. So great to see this again this way . Looked and sounded great especially the flashback battle scenes. Wow. Only blip was ONE small glitch during one battle scene late. Before I put disc in I gave it a good wipe down so perhaps need one more wipe down as no scratches were visible. Think lots of us are happy with this James Cameron release. Cheers D in BC!!

[@doublebillmovies]

Hi Dave. Glad you liked it. Give your disc driver a vacume. I just put the slip vacuum nozzle on and get it as close to the trive as I can with the tray open obviously. You might have a bit of dust or hair in the drive. It's not what we wanted but they have done a spectacular job with it. Trev

[@systemmonitor5295]

Christ alive. No. It's an AI upscaled mess, taking the 2K scan up to 4K with clear artifacting and garbled text. It does not look 'just like the cinema in the Eighties'. Also, if you don't know the difference between grain and noise (the 4K UHD uses a fake grain plate to mask the upscale, by the way) then I don't know what to say to you. If you put this side-by-side with a 35mm scan, your head would implode.

[@doublebillmovies]

Wow. Can't someone enjoy how a 4K looks and have feeling of watching a true 80s film knowing full well its not a scan of the original negatives? I worked in the QC industry for 10, I think I know the difference between film grain and digital video noise. I was merely bringing people's attention to the area of the image I was referring to, in a way they'd understand. I did notice a few compression artifacts and yes, anything that is not the main focus of what's on screen is mired in digital noise. Learn a little about someone before you run your mouth off. Then you wouldn't get so hot up and leave such comments on a spontaneous 1 take video. Thanks for watching. Trevor

[@systemmonitor5295]

@doublebillmovies You worked in quality control for ten years, yet don't have a problem with the Griffith Observatory sign now reading 'OAIFPITH O????VATORY'... okay.

[@doublebillmovies]

Yes, I worked for a company called Testronic Labs for 7 years until we were all made redundant. 7 years of driving into Pinewood Studios saying "morning" to a face hugger from Aliens that was in the window of a prop shed at the time. I then worked for Sony DADC and did freelance QC for Arrow and Network. The best job I ever had. I've learned to turn off my QC head and just enjoy the film. Studio Canal are the worst at 4K releases. If you want to see the kind of thing I'd pick out during a QC watch through then take your pick with The Fog, Total Recall and I forget what else. 2 things. 1st, Sorry for my backlash. 2nd. Thankfully Terminator is on a BD 100 and not a BD 66GB. I don't know what resolution the bonus features are cause I haven't watched them yet but I imagine are exclusively on the 3rd layer of the disc. Thus shouldn't interfere with the feature. I just looked at the Observatory text in the background of the T101 walking towards camera. You're right, it's not particularly legible. That's mostly to do with lighting. Also it's exactly the same as the 2012 Blu-ray. The DVN is far more intrusive on the BD than the UHD but is pretty much the same digital noise. Further proving as you say, it's a 2 upscale. When you QC. You only point out what artifacts are intrusive and that detract from the viewing experience. If the Observatory text was plot relevant, it would have to be flagged. Trust me. The 4K image, regardless of how they achieved it is far superior to the 2012 BD. I hope that helps. Trevor

[@systemmonitor5295]

@@doublebillmovies I've A/B'd the Remastered Blu and the 4K UHD. The sharpness and detail in the 4K is artificial detail generated by the AI as both physical releases come from the same scan. Things like hairs, fibers, leaves and foliage get reinterpreted by the AI upscaler and come out looking funky. Look at Reese in the motel also - the AI can't play nice with edges, so he looks comp'd into the shot. The garbled text is also spotted around the police station, but even if you make the point that movies are for watching and not freeze-framing on (which I agree with), it's impossible for me not to see the AI in every frame. I've worked with Topaz on independent projects and all the hallmarks of the AI facelift are there. Check Arnold's hair in the close up after he arrives, when his eyes scan side to side. The hair is being artificially redrawn in. For now I'm keeping the 2006 Blu-ray for colour grade variety and the Remaster Blu-ray for picture quality. I'm working on a custom remux using the 2013 master, colour graded with the 2006 as a basis, and a LaserDisc mono track for AQ.

[@doublebillmovies]

@systemmonitor5295 well good luck with your remux. I can see the AI. It's hard not to but projecting on the 106" screen stops it looking so obvious. Are you watching on a 4K TV? What settings are you running, picture mode, Sharpness, Brightness, contrast, noise reduction and such? If you've seen AI render a digital image first hand then you eye is now trained to see it. Like I'm trained to see compression, macro blocking, flash frames and so on, it hard to unsee them. Just enjoy the films, forget how the image was created. I might have to check out the 2006 SKU. The colour grading will be wrong compared to the Theatrical release unless it came from the Laserdisc master. Trevor

[@andrewattenboroughtwothumb4697]

Saw the terminator recently on a projector in HD a few months ago it was interesting can’t wait to see it in 4K ordered it yesterday here in Australia

[@doublebillmovies]

Hi Andrew. I literally just took a look at the 2012 BD to compare something to the 4K. The video noise that's visible on the 4K but unintrusive is really intrusive on the Blu-ray. The 4K is stunning. That's actually what the barcode says on the thumbnail 😆 Enjoy it when you get it. Nice to have another Australian comment on my videos. Feel free to check out my other Big Screen Reviews. Thanks for watching. Trevor

[@cheekster777]

The 4K review I’ve been waiting for since I watched the 40th Anniversary release at BFI IMAX on Judgement Day in August. Thank you Trev.

[@doublebillmovies]

Ah cool. Well I'm glad I could deliver. Trev.

[@javix2013]

Of Cameron's remastered films, Titanic is in first place and this one would occupy second place, then the rest. It's very good, but I don't know if it's 100% perfect, I've noticed some weird moments, in distant shots the faces look waxen, without details, not so in close-ups where it's very detailed, I would say my only problem are the people in distant shots, the rest is very good,

[@doublebillmovies]

Those are supposed to have less detail. That's just the way it was shot. It depends on the lenses used for each shot and what the director wants in focus. The same master used for the 2012 BD was used to create this upscale. That master had a lot video noise so it would have been hard to clean it up. They did a splendid job. You're right, it's far from perfect. Make sure your TV settings are correct. Incorrect settings can exaggerate these imperfections. Trevor

[@eastwood4lifefan334]

Hi Trevor, Hope all is well buddy, I do have a copy coming my way as “The Terminator” is one of my all time greatest movies, so I’m super happy that the 4K is a fine looking one, let’s jus hope that “T2” the extended cut gets the treatment, thanks for sharing this video & your thoughts 😎👍

[@doublebillmovies]

Hey buddy good to see you in the comments. I hope you like it. Obviously mine is a projector perspective, not a TV one so some people will still be unhappy. Thanks for watching my friend. Let me know what you think when you watch it. Trev

[@DIMEDAMAGE]

i was blown away by the sound and video.this is how t2 should have looked

[@doublebillmovies]

It's a brilliant 4K. Not perfect by any means but a massive upgrade from the Bluray. Thanks for watching. Trevor

[@By_His_Strypes]

You have the right attitude. As it shouldn’t really matter how if the result is pretty much as good as one could’ve hoped for! 👍🏻

[@doublebillmovies]

Thank you. It's looked stunning, I massively enjoyed watching the 4K so I told it as I saw it. Thanks for watching. Trevor

[@gurdipvirdee7176]

Good Day, Classic.❤ Recieved mine yesterday.

[@doublebillmovies]

Good day to you too. I hope you enjoy it. Trevor

[@davemillage6129]

Hi Trevor! Thanks for this review. Unfortunately I'm notified the estimated time of delivery will be Dec 3rd so a bit more of a wait. Meantime very encouraging to hear your thoughts on this one. My T2 4k was a whoppin 5 bucks in a bin at Walmart lol. Again great review and glad you enjoy your new copy of Terminator Cheers! All the best D in BC!!

[@doublebillmovies]

Hi Dave. Ahh, well it will be worth the wait mate. None of what I saw bothered or even distracted me. The look and sound combined is jaw dropping. I hope you get as slip as it sounds like you might be getting a second print run. Or did you go for the Steelbook? Trev

[@davemillage6129]

@@doublebillmovies Yes fingers crossed it comes with a slip. No steelbook just a regular copy. Got word today it has been shipped and now to arrive on the 22nd. Yahooo can't wait. Picked up Young Guns 4k and watched it a couple nights ago and it was so wierd. Faces were red red red and dark scenes were way too dark. I'll be damned after all my tweaking (on your advisement) Someone had switched it back to Dynamic picture. Once i went back to theatre mode the PQ calmed way down and looked pretty great agaIN. LOL Tales of an amateur home theatre lover lol Cheers Trevor have a great Thursday D!!

[@doublebillmovies]

@davemillage6129 I hope you get the slip. Hhhmmm. I wonder if your TV had a firmware upgrade. That may have switched it back to factory mode. Well I'm glad you sorted it. You had me worried then 🙄 Have a great day. This video is doing quite well 😁 Trev

[@davemillage6129]

@@doublebillmovies Morning Trevor! When Terminator is a subject people listen lol. I lucked out I guess and opened mine up WITH a slip. My suspense is over lol so will watch this tonite.. Hope you have a great weekend . Cheers Dave!!

[@LittleMissGrosser]

What a belter of a film! Terminator 1 and 2 are two of my favourite films of all time. Love Michael Biehn and Robert Patrick. Yeah. MGM and its classic lion ident were amazing. So many old film and TV logos I wish still existed.

[@doublebillmovies]

I hear you Alison. I'm glad we get these titles just in a new set of clothes. So many 88Films, Arrow and Shout Factory titles are from the MGM catalogue. T1 and T2 are awesome. My Trilogy is Salvation first the T1 and T2. Trev

[@michaelkuhlman883]

I'm blown away by the deep blacks and rich colors. I've NEVER seen Terminator looking this good, and that INCLUDES the theatrical release print I saw in 1984!

[@doublebillmovies]

Wow. Well that's saying something. I don't think the original film stock was much good, even the 70mm stuff. I still wish we could get proper scans of the original negatives like most other 4K's. We can only hope. Trevor

[@danemoreno88]

I need a screen like that lol about to watch mine right now on my projector

[@doublebillmovies]

Did you agree with my comments? I got my screen in a sale, was going to go for a pull down one but this was only about £40 more. Thanks for watching. Trevor

[@danemoreno88]

@@doublebillmoviesI agree with you looks absolutely phenomenal whatever they did ,they killed it . I had this on Blu-ray and it was 100 percent better on 4K in Dolby vision . My screen is a fixed 120 inch no alr nothing fancy

[@doublebillmovies]

@danemoreno88 I'm glad you liked it. That bigger than my screen 😁 Trevor

[@ryokodeivisu]

What projector you have? Looks like Optoma. I'm curious if it has rainbow effect. I bought a dlp projector once and it was really distracting. Now I use a 3LCD - Epson EH-TW6250

[@doublebillmovies]

Hi there. I have the Optoma UHD35X Once in a blue moon to I notice the RGB rainbow. So you should be fine. Some of us are more susceptible to seeing it than others. On my brothers Office projector I could see it all the time if you looked around the screen. Trevor

[@Bozlee22]

I think it looked absolutely amazing on my 120” screen. I think James Kamran got the message about the AIDNR and really tamed it down this time.

[@doublebillmovies]

Hopefully. And hopefully if we get T2 done properly that it will fit nicely with Terminator. Thanks for watching Trevor

[@garytilford6503]

Looks fantastic doesn't it. Yes I did get a slip cover and I also have the steelbook coming as well. I wasn't going to get it but it's grown on me. Apparently they are redoing T2 on 4k blu ray. Take care mate. Gaz.

[@doublebillmovies]

It definitely does. They are getting better at these algorithms even when they aren't trying to emulator film stock which they definitely didn't on this. 🤞🏻for T2 Trevor

[@garytilford6503]

@doublebillmovies Yeah, looks nothing like film does it but I'm very happy to watch it like this, plus it has the original mono audio as an option as well. I know a certain youtuber will have a field day on this transfer (idealistic crusader). Take care Trevor. Gaz.

[@doublebillmovies]

@garytilford6503 Thanks Gaz. That's why I give an honest review of exactly what my projector shows me. I know mostly what's been mentioned with and whats more authentic to film. But to me, most people just want to know if it's watchable. I would love all 4K's to e as close to the original film as possible. It's not going to happen though. Trev

[@xwing8675]

I've been waiting for a good 4k transfer for this one....

[@doublebillmovies]

To my eyes we got it. I hope you agree. Trevor

[@doublebillmovies]

It is an upscale but it's been done really well. It's far superior to the 2012 Bluray. Trevor

[@duncandonuts5268]

the overall viewing experience i had when i watched this in 4K was amazing and i had a blast. we also got the original theatrical audio back which is awesome. however, it certainly isn't anything close to what it looked like in 1984. the color timing is very blueish green like. the grain has been toned down some and there was ai used to make the image look sharper. i thought it looked pretty cool and will definitely be watching it this way most of the time, but in terms of seeing what the film actually looked like in 84, your best bet is one of the old dvds from the late 90s and early 2000s. the 2006 blu ray could do the trick to, but you won't have the original theatrical audio.

[@doublebillmovies]

I didn't notice any blueish green colour pallette on my screen. I'm sure I would if I watched it on a TV as all the colours get concentrated and you don't get to see the image as intended. We have to remember. The Image is graded for the cinema, so once blown up on the cinema screen, any teel hew applied won't be visible. I don't see it on my projector but I see it on my phone screen when I take the pictures I show. I'm glad you got a great experience from it. The original film stock was pretty poor, even the 70mm elements so it shouldn't look this good 😀 😄 Trevor

[@duncandonuts5268]

@doublebillmovies If you look up comparison videos between the old DVDs and the 2012 blu ray (which the 4K disc looks very similar to), you'll notice a pretty big difference in the color lol I don't mind it, but it's definetely a reason for me to hang on to the old stuff.

[@doublebillmovies]

Yes there will be a bigger difference with the older formats. The DVD will look redder, the BD more blue. The 4K with Dolby Vision should match the original Theatrical colour grading unless James Cameron has altered it. All DVD released differ colour wise from their original Theatrical release due to lack of available colours for the format. Same for BD. Trevor

[@duncandonuts5268]

@doublebillmovies It was altered to make the film look more modern.

[@doublebillmovies]

@duncandonuts5268 in this case I'm not surprised it's been changed. Most other 4K's though should represent the Theatrical release.

[@Tidbitkid]

The Ai tools they are using are essentially applying "intelligent sharpening/noise correction" you can tell this has issues when you look for not forefront information but background info including text that sharpening/incorrect use of auto noise correction has been applied. My theory is they are doing the auto noise correction to make it appear it used highest quality stock of film when this was not shot with probably the best stock money could buy also a higher mm of film. The issue also becomes noticeable in shots that have composite work done when you will notice forefront info including actors look really good and natural and once the composite shot occurs the lower resolution effect has been sharpened which than makes errors in judgement making things look out of place in background info and would probably have cases of smoothing occuring. Not to mention many companies are putting artificial film grain over top of a transfer that's been applied with these tools so it fools the viewer in thinking they are seeing a pristine film to video transfer with little tinkering happening. This can be noticed by frozen grain.

[@Tidbitkid]

About the film stock used it's been described as "color rendition is pretty poor in shadows and pastel tones. And the whole thing is very grainy" If you see good shadows and pastel tones and very little grain you know a bunch of tinkering occurred in this release that are not what the film shows even in its most pristine condition and minimal tools to enhance.

[@doublebillmovies]

It definitely wasn't grain I could see. I said that to draw peoples attention to the noise I was talking about. I looked nothing like "Film" and yes, the 70mm footage always looked really grainy before and did look cleaner. As a 4K, it looks fantastic. As a representative of the original film, it looks nothing like it. When you do see genuine grain on a 4K, it is frozen. It's a photo of the grain on the frame and doesn't behave anything like film grain cause it's static. Film grain when running through a projector cancels itself out and almost becomes invisible to the viewer. It's a brilliant 4K. They've done a really good job. And nothing distracted me or made me look elsewhere on the screen. And for some who worked as a QC Technician for 10 years, that's saying some. Also, projectors shoe the image different to how a TV would. Thanks for watching. Trevor

[@Tidbitkid]

@@doublebillmovies To add even further issue is this is not from a native 4K or higher source and is an upscaled to Ultra-HD 4K release. This itself would already exhibit upsampling not native to its 35mm source.

[@doublebillmovies]

You are correct. I just noticed I put was instead of wasn't film grain. You can't see any film grain because the image is too noisy to apply it. This 4K was upscaled from the 2012 remaster. The video noise is definitely there but far finer than the BD. If you have contrast set to high, it will exaggerate the noise on screen. If you have any sharpening on your TV (it should be off) or any other noise reduction tools active, you won't actually see what's on the disc accept a messed up image. I worked for 10 years as a QC Technician in the DVD and BD industry. On my set up, none of what you talk Bout is obvious. I'm not saying it's not there but not once was I distracted by the image, hence my reaction to seeing it. Make sure your system is set up correctly as it sounds like you're seeing things worse than they actually are. Trevor

[@bumpersmovies]

I was expecting another waxxy turd from Jimmy C but glad to hear that's not the case. Great review Trev, I'll be grabbing it on the weekend based on your solid review. Cheers dudey

[@doublebillmovies]

It's not a filmic looking 4K but I thought it looked amazing. Trev

[@thecoolj45221]

I also heard Titanic had a great 4k transfer

[@doublebillmovies]

I've yet to get round to watching my Titanic 4K but I believe it has. Trevor

[@mexdrago3009]

Im a friend of Sawah Cauna. I was told thst she was here. Could I see hur pweese?

[@doublebillmovies]

😆 wrong film 😆 The T1000 is played to perfection by Mr Patrick. Likewise. Arny played the T101 and the T800 to perfection also. Trevor

[@mexdrago3009]

@@doublebillmovies The Terminator Police station scene

[@doublebillmovies]

Oh yes. Sorry, you're right 😆 That's an awesome scene. When we watched it for my Stagg do, I had said "no shouting out movie quotes" But when it got to that scene. I said "123 I'll be back" we all did 😆. Trevor

[@loftlegacy]

Bought another Arnie film last week on 4K at a CEX "cheap" for a tenner on a whim. I recall watching it when I was younger but don't remember it. It's "Raw Deal" and it's a stinker. The transfer is woeful and think who ever did the colour grading was out of the room. The brightness even shifts between shots and one goes from daylight, to one that looks dusk, to daylight again in 20 seconds....avoid!!! Kind regards, Dave

[@doublebillmovies]

Hi Dave. I have Raw deal. It's a Studio Canal release. They don't do particularly good transfers. I don't recall seeing any of the issues you mention. If I watch it again soon I'll take a look. I hope you enjoy Terminator though. Trevor