Tesla Ends Production of LFP Model 3 😞

[@dylanwhite6539]

LFP is actually not as 100% friendly as initially reported. Cycling from 80-0, 60-0 and 25-0 yield more cycles. Cycling from 100-75% is actually WORSE than 100-0%. So unless you actually drive the majority of your range every day, you really shouldn’t be charging to 100% daily. Either plug in only when you’re at a low SoC, or reduce your charge limit and remember to charge to 100% somewhere between once per week and once per month. To be clear, Tesla has never said to charge to 100% daily, only to charge to 100% once per week. And ford recommends once per month. The ONLY reason to charge to 100% is to calibrate the BMS, NOT for the health of the battery. See the engineering explained video on the subject

[@gerritgovaerts8443]

and the reason for all of this is the very flat charging curve which prevents the BMS of knowing in which SOC the battery is

[@TailosiveEV]

I have, the point is the cycle life is so high that it doesn’t really matter if you charge to full daily cause you’re talking about the difference between lasting 1 million miles and 2 million miles. Most likely the car will be totaled before the battery goes bad

[@dylanwhite6539]

@@TailosiveEV that’s fair, but I don’t want people to misinterpret what that means. Someone who primarily 70-20% cycles a NMC very well could get more miles than a LFP which 100-75% cycles their battery. I personally rarely use 25% in a day so charging to 100% daily for me would be awful.

[@MH-Tesla]

​​@@dylanwhite6539 I charge to 100% every day and have 95,000 miles after 15 months. 3-5% degradation! Driving Uber I'll go: 100-10-65-10 back to 100 repeat. Or, if I'm driving less hours: 100-15 back to 100. That being said, my car doesn't sit long at 100%. Also, 70/30% home/supercharger. I was shocked I had such low degradation, but I tested two ways and both said the same result.

[@mousegw2415]

@@dylanwhite6539 LFP is just way more durable that it doesn't matter how you cycle it. I think you're grasping there at the nmc possibly getting more miles... I've seen the exact video you're talking about. There is only data showing increased degradation for 75-100% cycling compared to any other type of cycling, but the data itself tells you nothing about comparative lifespan of NMC. (Which is kind of the big point about LFP's in the first place, isn't it...???)

[@jimgraham6722]

My two year old LFP Atto3 is fantastic. Wouldnt swap for anything.😊

[@Guerreropowerr]

I got the RWD LR M3 two months ago. It is such a good vehicle, and with my feather footing I'm averaging 215 Wh/mi!

[@richarda3659]

Keep in mind that this end of LFP production is just temporary. Soon, we will be able to build LFP batteries in North America, and when that happens, this model will be re-introduced. Tesla can also redirect their LFP cells to non-automotive uses and even to the Semi - any product that where Federal tax credits don't apply. So this is a flash in the pan - -LFP will be back. If you really want LFP chemistry, there's unfortunately an almost unlimited supply of used Model 3s on the market.

[@TeslaFuture-b2r]

That´s great, hopefully they come back soon. The manufacturing emissions footprint for the LFP model are actually significantly better than those of other NMC based models. If the goal is to reduce emissions, LFP is the way to go.

[@BobbieGWhiz]

@@richarda3659 Do you have a reliable source for North American LFP manufacturing happening “soon“.

[@davidbelecci6970]

Redirecting LFP cells to other products is no gonna happen since there is an 100 % import tax now (from 25 %) from China. Making it economically infeasible. Only when there ever is a US LFP facility will they consider this. But that could be years from now.

[@johnsullivan8673]

Lol. Good luck scaling against China.

[@garethrobinson2275]

​@johnsullivan8673 The tarifs are what make it worth while, or did I misunderstand your point? Sorry, I usually find all the lolers are haters but it's only correlation?

[@gforce2002]

My understanding is that they are still in production, but being shipped to here in Canada as the tariffs on Chinese (Shanghai) produced EVs just kicked in here on Oct. 1

[@ewitte12]

I wasn't aware of this date I'm glad I got the batteries/inverter for the house a few months back. LFP from a Chinese company on Amazon...

[@3DThrills]

The LFP is the only Tesla battery I would accept. I just bought my 3rd LifePo4 today, for my Morphous.

[@alexagut]

Loving my LFP, and it was super cheap. Couldnt be happier.

[@farmerfarmerer3847]

@@alexagut These LFP Tesla’s go fast enough, too.

[@alexagut]

@@farmerfarmerer3847 fast enough for me, and my previous car was a Jaguar XF 300hp, this base entry Tesla feels quicker and lighter

[@debaser3000]

LFP is still available for many other parts of the world (e.g. here in Australia) via the Shangai factory. There is no way Tesla will stop LFP production from that factory.

[@fjalics]

We need a LFP factory in the US.

[@BobbieGWhiz]

@@debaser3000 Sometime the US forgets that there is a rest of the world.

[@brucealmberg]

This video is about lfp mode 6:15 l 3 production for the US market. Sounds like you only read the headline.

[@BobbieGWhiz]

@@brucealmberg It’s not mentioned in my 6:15(?).

[@johnsullivan8673]

@@fjalics we need to stop taxing American consumers due to some nebulous “national security” bs.

[@MOBMJ]

Although the long range rare is cheaper, if you can qualify until the credit last. I like the simplicity of just plug it in and let it charge to 100% with out really thinking about it. no stress and thinking of how many miles you have under the 80% limit of the battery pack.

[@MH-Tesla]

I got 80,000 miles in 12 months on my LFP M3. Shooting for 500,000 in six years.

[@OrganicStuff1]

I don’t believe you

[@empanadaguru]

Easily achievable, I drove 38,000 a year and wasn't even my full time job....if you do gig work Uber or Lyft or drive for a living like picking up medicine to ship to pharmacies etc... you can easily hit 100,000 a year, most Gig work full time drive 2k miles a week ​@@OrganicStuff1

[@vanadium0101]

I believe you.

[@rogerphelps9939]

That is around 250 miles per day. 5 hours at highway speeds. seems you like the prospectt of an early grave.

[@Yannister]

@@rogerphelps9939 For a taxi it's possible

[@photofusionart]

FYI - I just got a RWD Model Y brand new and it did not come with LFP ….disappointing - but the range says 320 miles at 100%.

[@tony34star]

LFP is still for sale in Australia from China. But I bought the Long Range...better power and you can go 100% maybe not as many times but hey Need for Speed for me..

[@SpeakerKevin]

I owned both long and standard range models and on long trips, the reduced charging time that the long range overs is worth considering.

[@battery_wattage]

Some things to understand about LFP. It still experiences accelerated wear from charging to full AND cycling above 70%, HOWEVER, the extra wear would still not be as fast as non LFP batteries and should not be something to worry about in real world conditions. The reason Tesla states to charge to full at least once a week is for calibration, not health. I always charge my LFP packs to full and it’s not something to worry too much about, just don’t leave it full for long periods of time.

[@petersimms4982]

❤ my mod 3 , 60,000 miles , not even a bulb replaced 😊😊😊

[@rogerphelps9939]

Tyres. Wiper baldes. Economical with the truth, aren't you. With the advent of LEDs bulbs are tthe lastt thing I would expect to fail.

[@petersimms4982]

Ok 4 tyres, 5 lt screenwash 5 air fresheners , as a retired mechanic, it’s a joy to own 😊😊

[@pauld6967]

I am a little surprised by this move but since I too was goving a serious look at the LR RWD Model 3 because of the point-of-sale discount, I can understand it.

[@slyguyaction]

Kinda sad. I adore my 2022 RWD with the LFP.

[@dwylhq874]

Not true. Ends in USA. Still available _everywhere_ else!

[@robingrieves]

In Australia, the gap between the RWD and LR is A$11,000! I bought the RWD because its by far the best value for money. We don't have a national credit for EV's. My state does $3,500 rebate which I got.

[@tovarejacobsen2971]

It makes sense not to offer an option that could be a bad decision for many people in the US. I appreciate the simplicity of choosing a Tesla compared to many other brands. I just got the VIN for mye cheap model 3 RWD with LFP headed for Oslo from China, so the title of the video grabbed my attention :-)

[@cJeremy]

man it's sad politics always hurt hard working Americans. left or right, the trade war has been seriously terrible for most people here and globally.

[@ledzeppelin1212]

Yup, glad I got my LFP Model 3 when I did. I would love to buy a BYD from China also...but politics!

[@jeanraymond9114]

Weird I still see the standard rwd model 3 on website 😊

[@BobbieGWhiz]

Inventory?

[@philborer877]

My guess is that they also want to start using 4680s in the not so distan future for the standard range to lower the price. It will take a while to get the line ramped up but they are moving on them now.

[@ChipMIK]

4680s made today are utter crap and nothing like what was told on that super hyped batteryday so many years ago by now.

[@xcom115]

You are probably right but having a Model Y with the 4680 I can say that pack is crap. Max charging speed is roughly 150 kwph and it falls of very fast. If I could do it again I would not get one with that pack. It’s interesting that one of the complaints of the cyber truck was charging speed and it has the 4680 also. Oh and that pack does not hold that charge well ( from my experience)

[@bearcubdaycare]

I like my LFP Model 3. I guess my next car won't be a Tesla. Rivian I hear.

[@mizzslim17]

I don't know what he's talking about.Either because it's still on the site in america too.

[@halkon4412]

Not anymore.

[@Harrythehun]

Probably a better LFP battery incoming for Tesla in China, Oceania and Europe.

[@abebegirmay3327]

May be you need to say Tesla USA not other parts of the world. The one from China and Germeny is still LFP included. Remember CATL is also producing an updated LFP which is much more better range, energy density, etc but Tesla has not yet started to use it. So the future is amazing with LFP developments.

[@TailosiveEV]

Less than 1% of my views are from Germany. KZbin is banned in China

[@abebegirmay3327]

@@TailosiveEV Ok it makes sense. What I meant was almost the whole Europe is getting Model 3 from China and Model Y from Germany. Both comes with LFP batteries and I do think there will be many people who will view your youtube from Europe as well. By the way you are making nice videos and keep it up.

[@kylie920]

Model 3/Y use NCA & NCM batteries in the US not just NCM

[@danlewis243]

Yes where did he get that Panasonic 2170 are NCM?? They are NCA higher energy density for US Performance Y and 3 The LG NCM used in UK Performance Model 3 Highland is considered inferior. slower charging and about 100HP less at the wheels. Would anyone with a NCA Performance model trade for NCM or LFP , Not likely. For home battery back up yeah LFP sounds good.

[@kylie920]

@@danlewis243 yup I agree. I don’t understand the lore that LFP batteries get. They are inferior in almost every way in comparison to NCA. The whole “charging to 100% daily” thing is BS and is more related to voltage/BMS calibration than it is to degradation

[@xrom2863]

They can ship all LFP Model 3 to Canada

[@ledzeppelin1212]

For now...Trudeau likes his tariffs, too. Not saying I agree with him, but he will find a way to screw things up.

[@redbrazos]

After the last few years of this conversation I believe there is no definitive answer. Amazing amount of people are so comfortable with their "FACTS". EV makers , batt makers, engineering papers are so cloudy with their confusion in owners manuals of their own products... Don't ask me, I have no damn answer. You are on your own and good luck with your choices. I will not even tell my method if asked....

[@jtr82369]

Ohh course the Gov screws up the best battery option… LFP is the only battery I want until a new tech is avail.

[@halkon4412]

I guess you like Chinese imports and would hate tariffs imposed on them then, right?

[@tooltalk]

It's best low-end batteries.

[@jtr82369]

@@halkon4412 no one in America gets around buying things from China 🤷‍♂️ And no I don’t like tariffs as it mainly hurts the consumer who is already struggling as it is.

[@ewitte12]

This may explain why it took so long to get my RWD (lease).

[@deej628]

So I buy a 22 m3p with 35k on it, 1 owner blue/white for 30k or spend another 12k on a 24 long range awd same color options after rebates.

[@jasonkalin181]

My tought is LR is not needed at all RWD has tons of range for daily driving. And roads trips in it are great. stoping about every 2 2.5 hours for 15 to 20 min is no deal at all.

[@deej628]

@@jasonkalin181 I appreciate that. I wish it came with the better sound system though. Audio is a big thing for me in cars and I don’t want to go aftermarket. Awd would be nice as well for the Oregon winters if I visit family.

[@jasonkalin181]

@@deej628 I kind of wish they would make a shorter range "city" version! I would be all over a 200 mile MD3. My RDW is super efficent with a liftime 223 Wh/mi 37584 mi. My friends with LR just can't belive it.

[@Medal-EED]

Consider the 2024 model possibly dark grey color, the blue color has not been updated and is more expensive, the 2024 grey is darker shade than the older and its free. Now the reason is you will get an additional 2 years warranty additionally the new upgrades are very significant and most importantly the Performance trim is very expensive to insure in the longer run.

[@JonathanTamm]

350 million people in the US and 7 billion in the world 5% of the worlds population is not everyone.

[@TailosiveEV]

Most of my viewers are from the US. LFP teslas are still available in other countries

[@BlindedByLogic]

The Inflation Reduction Act did good things on infrastructure, but stopping cheaper batteries and safer LFP from China was definitely a big lose for consumers.

[@ccibinel]

And the last minute edits to cut credits for autocycles/motorcycles has been a massive hit for Aptera. Up to $15,000 off a model 3 in california between state and federal incentives vs $750 off at a state level as a "motorcycle"; this is not how you encourage innovation and efficiency.

[@rogerphelps9939]

Blame that on lobbying by legacy auto.

[@falsedragon33]

Most of you are too young to remember what it's like when the world fights, and the Candians never really knew.. This one is going to be a doozie. Get ready to go without.

[@Theboardsurfer]

'Tis true. Everyone in their own country thinks they will be on the benefiting side, but most likely we all lose to some degree.

[@carperdiem8754]

Ugh was planning on getting one. Cheapest for me

[@BobbieGWhiz]

I assume it won’t be long before they start producing a standard range non-LFP model 3.

[@solteszan]

Tesla has not stopped producing the LFP M3 in general. Only in the US. Title is very misleading.

[@TailosiveEV]

Majority of my audience is from the US. KZbin is banned in China

[@arnoldm889]

New data shows lfps get degradation as well. Charging to 100% constantly affects them as well.

[@TailosiveEV]

All batteries get degradation, that was never the debate. Point is LFP has twice the cycle life

[@ccibinel]

LFP makes a ton of sense but this is all a side effect of the IRA picking winners. Government policies should encourage choices by punishing new gas cars to offset their external impacts. this would encourage any existing vehicles to stay on the road, ride sharing, ebikes, etc all good things

[@juliahello6673]

Americans would complain.

[@Dularr]

We just not building LFP battery factories.

[@Nickregier]

Everyone is going to complain and an additional tax on gasoline should not be off the table.

[@ccibinel]

@@Nickregier Who said tax gas? I said tax new gas vehicles (like 10-15%). It encourages fixing existing ones and alternatives to driving 4000+ lb with one person in it.

[@brentsmith-d8h]

@@Nickregier Sadly, you would not have to add an additional tax, just ending the SUBSIDIES to big oil would have the required effect.

[@brianmb]

Currently waiting for my power wall 3 install… is that LFP?

[@pegefounder]

Only in mad USA. LFP 3 and Y available in EU.

[@NextGenEvs]

Here’s a theory, Tesla needs the LFP packs for Robotaxi and/or the other lower cost vehicles.

[@JeffKubel]

One thing I don't quite understand is if cycle life is supposed to be so high for LFP why does Tesla offer the lowest mileage battery warranty with that battery at only 100,000 miles? It's almost like they don't really trust it. And if the "you can charge it to 100%" claim was debunked after a few years, what's that mean for the cycle count claim? It sounds like where everyone very confidently boasted about a certain product being safe and effective and then realize a few years later it's neither safe nor effective hehe oops lets not talk about that. Ahh, well, at least LFP doesn't give you turbo cancer.

[@imzjustplayin]

The LFP battery has the lowest total KWH capacity and that's the only criteria they're using to calculate the life of the battery.

[@jimmyobvious1651]

Tbh the 100% charging is more for battery calibration. That said, battery degradation for LFP is slightly better iirc from Tessie. Warranty could just be for product differentiation; theres every indication that theyre very reliable.

[@ChipMIK]

Why should they raise it? It would only cost Elon more and customers doesn't demand it so wont happen. 100% agree on the 100%. Its indeed very much needed for balancing but the cells themself degrades faster, like Li-Ion. Only difference is you got so much lifecycle to trade with that you wont notice the difference for the first many years of ownership. (Now you could send that ? about warranty length a thought ;-) )

[@ewitte12]

market segmentation. If the threw tone of those new CATL batteries on a model S/X rest assured, it will have the best warranty.

[@jorge3234]

I think it’s simple. Why would Tesla offer the 120k warranty on their cheapest car/ battery pack? Why not just give the people that buy that car just 100k warranty and if they want the comfort of having an extra 20k warranty they need to move up (spend more money) on the next trim up.

[@carpetsushi24]

At 2:40 why doesn’t anyone mention that there’s not only an income limit to getting the 7,500 but also an income baseline. If you make $50k $55k or $60k etc.. you don’t make enough income to pay $7,500 in taxes. This seems like a big mistake not to mention. Since this applies to many interested buyers.

[@TailosiveEV]

Not true. The credit is point of sale meaning it’s a deduction on the vehicle price not a check you get in the mail

[@carpetsushi24]

@@TailosiveEV yes but at the end of the year if it turns out you didn’t qualify for it, you’ll owe the difference back on your taxes

[@carpetsushi24]

@@TailosiveEV Please let me know if I am wrong about this? All of my research and conversations with Tesla have led me to this understanding. If you don’t pay $7,500 in federal taxes during the year of your purchase, you’ll owe the difference back on your taxes at the end of the year.

[@CrumResearch]

Cybertruck not yet shipping with dry cathode Cobalt-free chemistry, right?

[@waynerussell6401]

Dry cathode possible. No Cobalt, not yet.

[@garywozniak7742]

That's unfortunate.

[@jayd118]

Model 2 on the horizon probably has something to do with it as well

[@jjamespacbell]

Good luck on your quest to 1,000,000 miles, maybe you can reduce from 40 years by joining the RoboTaxi fleet ;-)

[@whiteandnerdytuba]

Tesla raised the price to 42 grand… for a compact car

[@alex54545]

Cybertruck needs a 200kwh pack, don’t care which cells they use just make it… Double stack the Model S pack…

[@AkumaQiu]

Laughing in BYD and CATL

[@TheJ02gt]

Would it.have been cheaper woth out tax credit

[@Bemx2k]

Do not trust them that you can charge LFP up to 100% all the time , it is pure nonsense . If you want to keep LFP battery in best possible condition chare it up to 100% only when you really need . Good standard is every 5-6 charge to 100% 1-5 charge up to 80%

[@BobbieGWhiz]

@@Bemx2k Exactly what degree of degradation happens by charging in the 75-100% range compared to your practice? Can you state a number and a Source. Thanks.

[@battery_wattage]

In the real world you would still get better cycle life if you charged to full every day. I can’t link sources, but multiple studies show if you charge to the max voltage every single time and leave the battery full, you would still get 1000 cycles, or about 240,000 miles down to 80% (my napkin math estimation for current M3). Keep in mind 1000 cycles is the lower end of LFP cycle life and avoiding charging to full will drastically improve to 2000-3000 cycles. Also the battery is still perfectly useable (maybe not convenient) with 50% capacity remaining. Probably why Tesla states it’s ok to daily charge to full because you would still (theoretically) have more percentage of battery health remaining even compared to long range NCA after many miles.

[@Bemx2k]

@@battery_wattage :) :)

[@t.d.5804]

Dont charge any battery often to 100%, LFP doesnt like to sit on high SoC. Charging to 100% is a misunderstanding. The BMS needs 100% to read the battery, the cells itself degrade faster on high SoC. Also NCM is outdated, sad that the taxes tell you what to buy. Current LFPs (2024) are far far superior than the current NCMs. That old 2021/2022 CATL Lfp Tesla uses is outdated. At least they put the 2023 BYD blade LFP in the EU made MY. That battery is far better than the NCM LR LG they use here in the EU. 2024 LFPs are even much better. Lets hope Tesla will switch to the lastest LFPs and abandon current NCMs. There is much work on the 4680, today they are not on par

[@Corey25]

20-80% of RWD LR is close to 100% LFP. It’s faster. You get the tax credit.

[@ledzeppelin1212]

True...but I do trust the LFP for longevity. Hoping to keep my LFP M3 for fifteen years or more.

[@andremcamara3120]

Wonder how much longer the IRA will be around, after this election and LFPs start being made in North America Just a question.

[@BobbieGWhiz]

Who knows?

[@cherokee180c0]

@@andremcamara3120 if it doesnt stay in place it dooms legacy auto to bankruptcy. China, Europe, at least 10 states in the US will no longer be customers they can sell to. Check out Stallantis’ current financials. They may already be there.

[@chilis_guest_wifi]

I agree its too bad that there are no longer any LFP model 3’s being made in the US, but i think complaining about the IRA misses the point.

[@TailosiveEV]

I blame Tesla and other automakers for not making LFPs in the US

[@chilis_guest_wifi]

@@TailosiveEV you make it sound like the pesky IRA and politics got in the way of LFP proliferation though, based on how i interpreted it. I’m sure the LFP cars will be back in the future. If anything, tesla should have started working on this a long time ago. Its surprising they have no ability to make LFP cells in the US even though the chemistry has been around for a while

[@ewitte12]

IRS? IRA is a retirement account.

[@Jcewazhere]

@@ewitte12 Inflation Reduction Act. Brought back a bunch of manufacturing jobs, threw a ton of money at infrastructure, and changed import laws somewhat to incentivize 'made in america' stuff.

[@BobbieGWhiz]

@@ewitte12 Inflation Reduction Act.

[@davidj7607]

So the current Model 3 Long range RWD with 363 miles is nickel now?

[@deej628]

Has been since it came out.

[@TailosiveEV]

All long range batteries are nickel based

[@davidj7607]

@@deej628 that is not true, I got one a few weeks ago and it’s LFP.

[@davidj7607]

If it is nickel now, how did they match up the exact range as I bought one with LFP a few weeks ago with similar 363 miles of range. Are they still selling the remaining LFP or they sandbagging the range with nickel?

[@deej628]

@@davidj7607 you said current rwd lr. That one has never been lfp, just the one they removed.

[@chenyansong]

In US only, model Y SR still available in China

[@TailosiveEV]

KZbin is banned in China so this felt safe

[@chenyansong]

@@TailosiveEV it is also available in Tesla Canada, so I guess US is an exception rather than norm😀

[@kevinforde1720]

M3 and MY RWD SR still available in Europe too, so this is USA-specific specification change only.

[@johnsullivan8673]

@@TailosiveEV it’s not banned. You need to read a book.

[@LarryRichelli]

I know your young but if someone is on a fixed social security income, the tax credit is just not there..

[@aprihar216]

Now that the tax credit can be advanced and transferred to Tesla at the point of sale, even someone on a fixed income with no tax liability could still claim the full $7,500 credit.

[@nosult3220]

Lfp sucks

[@farmerfarmerer3847]

LFP is a winner, and the BESS use LFP and thats an emerging business that is set to out perform even the car business, especially in South East Asia.

[@nosult3220]

@@farmerfarmerer3847 no

[@Wendy-nm9zw]

Junk cars, badly built

[@farmerfarmerer3847]

Thats why the Model Y they outsold every other car worldwide last year.LOL.

[@authenticNL2]

​@@farmerfarmerer3847 Tesla still has reportedly bad QC, it's annoying to deal with

[@waynerussell6401]

Tinker Bell has been spreading lies to you again... Least warranty claim brand - WarrantyWeek Least manufacturing faults of all OEMs in China - 12365Auto Cheapest brand to own in 10 years - Consumer Reports 2024 Least call outs for German ADAC Tesla gets the top rating for owner satisfaction in US, China and Norway surveys Tesla has best selling car in the World Model S Plaid described by Munro and McElroy pre tear-down fit and finish as 'good as a Bentley' Model 3P assessment by Out of Spec Detailers, 'Porsche level quality'. "I was stunned. Not only was the paint without any discernible flaw, but the various panels formed a body of precision that was beyond reproach. Gaps from hood to fenders, doors to frame, and all the others appeared to be perfectly even, equal side-to-side, and completely parallel. Gaps of 3.5 to 4.5mm are considered word-class. This Model 3 measured up." Bob Lutz, Road & Track Jun 14, 2019.

[@petersimms4982]

As a 56 year old mechanic, Tesla is a wonder 😊

[@farmerfarmerer3847]

@@authenticNL2 Heard that years ago, however the shanghai factory has never had that reputation.