[TESLORE] Elder Scrolls #6: TALOS: Ysmir Wulfharth & Tiber Septim

[@MigrantThought]

A problem with ES game all the cool shit happens outside of the games.

[@shinon748]

Naw I consider the Warp in the West cool shit and that happened in the second game. Same with the story of the Nerevarrine and the fall of the Tribunal. That was the third game. The oblivion crisis was ok but we've seen a lot of doomsday/apocalypse themes already.

[@VMUDream]

Thats tolkienian fantasy for ya.

[@CernobilRS]

This is all fan fiction, scarce and contradicting "lore" from 5 games, fake and fantasy stories from fantasy and myth books that are in games and 5 minutes to midnight solutions (aka ok we somehow survived as a company to third game, what to do with second game ending.... ahh fuck it all are canon and not, now lets not talk about it again, Cyrodiil is a jungle, nah easier and better to make standard european medieval fantasy world... urrr changed climate with voice,yes that will work etc.) all meshed up together. I admire this guy dedication and ES lore knowledge but...

[@CernobilRS]

Zaric Zhakaron I know thats why i said "fake and fantasy stories from fantasy and myth books that are in games ". Stories told in many in game books are fake and fantasy inside fantasy game.

[@pumpkin6429]

Going to Nord heaven to kill a dragon was kind of cool.

[@LilDurr]

I think the most common misconception among TES players is that Talos is only Tiber Septim

[@JacobSmith-uo1fx]

+Mannimarco *anyone who didn't care about the story.

[@kimeradon]

"Only Skyrim" is an insult X) We are talking about video game lore. You are not an idiot if you think Talos is only Tiber Septim... There is a good argument for people who spend time delving too deeply into fictional lore being the real idiots XP We probably take this shit way more seriously than the people writing it XD

[@JohnnnyJohn]

In a thousand years there will be scholars that believe there was a cult that believed this stuff. There will be books written about the 8/9 divines, Deadra, the Tribunal... and so on, and so on, and their many followers.

[@SasukeTheCursed]

Zaric that might be true but realize that many elder scrolls fans started with Morrowind, not Arena.

[@Rhis2137]

So Heimskr/Nords worship the Wulfharth Talos or the Tiber Septim Talos? I'm a lore noob, sorry.

[@dragerv4118]

I came here to learn about the under-king I left learning that the legend of Tiber septim was deeper then I realized. Elders scrolls is a dangerously deep series!

[@CoolStoryJo]

I think TESLORE would be a damn good TV show.

[@polartaxias2702]

A very expensive one

[@warrenbobbitt2126]

Better than game of thrones

[@ChachoChadd]

watch your mouth

[@davidking6242]

make a tv show on tiber septims conquest. or better yet a strategy game based on tiber septims conquests

[@zurinarctus1329]

Better than Tolkien

[@nolaz010]

Oh! I'll finally understand more about Talos! *clicks thumbnail* "I'm more confused than when I started..."

[@TheDarkestNothing]

I trust what you say over a lore master to be honest.

[@libenhagos9335]

Dunkin Vonhosahin idk if he does it unconsciously but zarik ignores some stuff in-game that contradicts some (emphasis on some) of what he says. I think it's because he just mentally corrects a lot of the worst writing to make more sense.

[@quattro4468]

He gets all this from r/teslor lol. KZbinrs are not unique. They take info they get from forums from creepy pastas to lore and make videos from it.

[@NAUTIIBOII563211]

But they are doing a service; they're accumulating information that some of us just don't have the time to hunt down and presenting it in a more palatable form

[@iRemainNameless]

Indeed. It takes great talent to be able to explain a deep story with such clarity making it not only understandable but entertaining as a character. Zaric is the lord of lore. As far as I’m concerned in the community Zaric is the goat

[@Moirai343]

So, in essence, Auri-El, Akatosh and Alduin form a triad similar to the Moirai of Greek Mythology: Klotho, who weaves the thread of life, Lachesis, who guides the thread of life, and Atropos, the bringer of death who cuts the thread of life. Interesting...

[@GeraltofRivia22]

I think the elder scrolls has got to be one of the most lore intensive games of all time. Hell, it even rivals Lord of the Rings.

[@bailaohu7819]

You sure? It feels more like ultra vague lore with fans filling in their interpretations of the vague elements...and since everybody has a different take, you get one complex weave trying to unify the head canon of hundreds of fanboys. The actual written lore of TES doesn't seem remotely complex or particularly intensive-though you do have quite a bit of contradictions that even a first timer could see. The way I see it, it's like trying to make sense of the bullshit retcons in DBS, but in a universe where DBZ itself had just as many plotholes and stupidity as super. So the intensive/complex nature on display is more fans trying to create a reasonable world and chain of events rather than simply accepting that Bethesda fucked up because....well...if you accepted that they fucked up then you really couldn't get invested in TES at all...

[@itisWhatitis12345]

@@bailaohu7819 But its not fans filling their interpretations. The lore comes from all the Books in the game you can read. And those books are written by residents of Tamriel. Various authors in tamriel and hence is bound to multiple historical accounts with contradicting details. Just like the real world history is written by its victors Heck even as early as WWII there are contradicting accounts of what happened. That is how lore written by MK is delivered in game. Then even more you can start with C0DA

[@jaguillermol]

Lord of the Rings has no lore. They walk and walk and walk and throw some object away. Same in Silmarillion, they elves they walk and walk and walk and throw swords and diadems away. And rings.

[@loremasterghosty]

@@jaguillermol as a fan of Tolkien. That is u true. Very untrue.

[@jaguillermol]

@@loremasterghosty "as a fan of Tolkien" that statement just disqualified you. Sod off fanboy

[@freekillerwhale]

Oh, poor poor poor poor poor Unedrking. This series is fantastic. This series is a credit to humanity, could you please continue them

[@BroadwayRonMexico]

I mean, in the end, the Underking is as much Talos as "Tiber Septim" (that is, Hjalti) is

[@proudyank4785]

Three individuals one God Oh were have I heard this before.

[@proudyank4785]

Christian theology ( im not saying it biased of it, it just sounds similar)

[@darkdave1998]

You're not far off, but I think a more fitting example would be Triple Aspect of Woden (specially since the Holy Trinity is a pagan concept)

[@comradecommissar311]

Dave The Knave yeah Christianity stole a lot from Germanic paganism

[@Brandanus]

@@comradecommissar311 both of you seem to be unaware your "Germanic paganism" (whatever you think that might have been) was preserved by Christian clerics.

[@SamucaGamer100]

@@Brandanus Yes, and the concept of the Holy Trinity dates from the very early days of Chridtianity. No way they "stole that" from Germanic Paganism, they were an underground cult in the Roman Empire at that time. How tf they would have stole that from Germans?

[@Keldrath]

This series is awesome. I thought I knew a good bit of Elder Scrolls lore, but you demonstrated to me that I essentially knew nothing at all. It's actually more interesting now than I thought it was.

[@Nixicated]

sooo after years of Skyrim, I started playing Morrowind again (after 15+ years), plan to do Oblivion next (never played it). Came to KZbin to brush up on the lore. Jumped into the rabbit hole (I'm still falling btw), found Fudge Muppet and this channel and now I can't stop! Pls, send help! 😫 Also, great video! Love it - obviously! 😁 I will now continue to wither away binge-watching all of your videos... 👍 ok bye!

[@JEOVAHxRxGOD]

I've only recently gotten into the elder scrolls deep lore but I really like this as it sets up Talos as a tribunal for man with lorkahn as his anticipation. I also appreciate the 3 in one like the irl christian deity.

[@JEOVAHxRxGOD]

@@Super50ldier yes, there's multiple ways to break it down but for me the 'peices' of the modern Jehovah and Talos correspond in a lot of ways. Like wulfharth the father figure or YHWH is a far older much more composite entity with great power and scores to settle, Tiber and the Nazarene both lived as men walking and acting amongst mortals as one of them before their ultimate ascension, zurin arctus like the entity that would be known as the holy spirit is all but forgotten and has also lost his name but both give life in some way forming the third corner of a holy house

[@JEOVAHxRxGOD]

@@Super50ldier I'd say big E and big T are both referencing big G. Idk how much they're referencing each other. I can see may Talos as Jimmy Space with the Numidium being like the primarchs

[@JEOVAHxRxGOD]

@@Super50ldier definitely, at least by 40k the emperor as a 'man' mantled humanity in it's totality (or is in the process) coopting all but the cursed faiths into himself. The God Emperor is a significantly distinct figure from the thing sitting on the throne

[@JEOVAHxRxGOD]

@@Super50ldier the god emperor is capable of things well beyond jimmy space's already formidable capacities well before his nap

[@Eueueyw]

When you are talking about the first battle of red mountain, you say that the nords fought the dunmer. This was before the tribunal ascended into godhood and the chimer were cursed by Azura, so they would have been chimer still, not dunmer.

[@glenrkat]

Probably just an omission based on simplifying a complex video. If he'd mentioned the Chimer he'd have had to explain them and their fall, which largely wasn't relevant to the subject of the video. It's easier to say Dunmer or Dark Elf for fans who had never heard of the Chimer.

[@dowekeller]

In his defense, the in-game books get this wrong too. You have to imagine these were written after the fact by scholars who weren't well versed in Chimer/Dunmer history. The Elder Scrolls games contain many writings, none of them are word of god, but different accounts from differing (even conflicting) points of view. This is my favorite aspect of the Lore, because it echoes real world history and myth.

[@iRemainNameless]

Man, you guy are awesome. I love learning about tes lore

[@speedygun198]

Heimskr approves of this.

[@Brigis14]

+Zaric Zhakaron hahaha

[@andrewc3336]

For I love, LOVE you!

[@Sw-qc1zo]

*Talos Stormcrown! Born of the north!*

[@arandomgreekfrombactria6302]

He has been anointed to spreaaaadd my ASs for u!

[@tomsurwill3150]

Talos is a complete lie hail ysmir the Dragon of the north

[@fodspeed]

It's almost confirms that only avatar of shor can beat alduin, which mean last dragonborn indeed avatar of shor and he might be mantling talos.

[@arawn1061]

FodSpeed more like we (the player) are the avatar of Lorkhan.

[@tomsurwill3150]

Ysmir not talos

[@theboy1625]

@@arawn1061 Shor is Lorkan

[@realzachfluke1]

@@theboy1625 (lol)

[@realzachfluke1]

@@tomsurwill3150 Ysmir Wulfharth was a person with the literal name Ysmir. But "Ysmir" became a title bestowed on supposedly worthy people, including you, the Last Dragonborn we play as in Skyrim, and according to what the Greybeards who gave us that very title believe, "a young Talos" as well. It's up to you whether to believe in the story of a young "Talos" venturing up the mountain to hear the Greybeards speak (and whether you want to question the Hjalti and Tiber Septim angles and all of that fun stuff), but I can tell you what I believe. The Greybeards who proclaim us, in the name of Kyne, in the name of Shor, and in the name of Atmora of Old, _"Ysmir" _ at that shouting ceremony in their monastery, definitely believe that previous Greybeards met the young Talos and gave him that title. They believe the story they're telling us, that much is beyond clear to me, but the rest is up to us to piece together, or not, and to question, _or not._ It's part of the fun of this universe!

[@cjware316]

Love your lore videos! Thank you for putting so much time and care on them..

[@seandarko]

Could you do a video covering Mannimarco?

[@raziel6304]

Once he gets to the 3rd era he will.

[@mohammadwaquiullah6049]

I proclaim Zaric as Master Loremaster :)

[@kapistar1]

It's been almost half a year... Zaric my dude - we need a new episode! Pretty please

[@realzachfluke1]

lol

[@kenthorhagadol9675]

This was enlightening, absolutely. Please continue!

[@Valencetheshireman927]

The lore surrounding Talos has always been confusing so thanks for helping me understand it more 👍!

[@Valencetheshireman927]

And keep up the great videos !

[@shoc2177]

8:06 haltie the daggerfall guard made me laugh hard xD

[@HowitzerGaming]

Another amazing video!! Loved the motu teela shot in there with Kyne.

[@samuelreyes5546]

Still waiting for the next one, this series is one of the best lore videos I've seen.

[@AnDottie]

This is probably the best explanation of what Talos is

[@Brandanus]

The greatest invention of the Elder Scrolls team were the ways to write lore in a way it reflects multiple game endings (all are more or less true at the same time, so we can consistently follow-up with the next game) and lore is solely told ingame, without any omniscienct narrator. Imagine, you played the game one way and your friend took different decisions and even played a different character. Still, both of your stories a true ingame with a new joint of the multiverse ahead. Both stories leave evidence in the form of books written about it, by the (non player) characters who have seen or heard about.

[@yoloswagb0i]

Binge watched all your lore videos today, really great stuff, can't wait for the next ones. Where do you personally get your information from and how do you figure what is true from what is false?

[@MrUnknownzz1]

This guy knows the lore to a whole other level compared to some other youtubers (no offense to them - they're alright). I've been looking for someone who can convey Elder Scrolls lore quite like this.

[@Chrymzon]

I have been waiting for another one of these. Excellent.

[@OrigierdoesRPG]

I am really enjoying this series, nice work Zaric.

[@lastdovahkiin5759]

Sorry if my question sounds dumb, it's just that I've never known much about TES's lore; but if King Wulfharth was the first person to use the title 'Talos of Atmora' and then both Zurin Arctus and Tiber Septim used it in their favor because it became popular among the Nords, wouldn't it make more sense to say that Talos is just Wulfharth himself instead of an aspect of him, Tiber Septim, and Arctus?

[@kaalsemulzii1920]

Wait... if Voryn Dagoth (a.k.a. Dagoth Ur) cut out Shor's heart during the battle, Wulf helping the Nerevarine against him can be taken as an act of revenge? Or just an effort to free the Heart of the usurpers?

[@31JerBro]

Great now my head hurts

[@SasukeTheCursed]

I have to applaud how TES has multiple lores for multiple cultures to describe how certain events occurred. Though its made pretty obvious that one in particular is the most accurate.

[@Pink_Noodle]

I think the reason why the Elves do not like Talos is he is the Enantiomorph embodied in a single identity; and therefore is an echo of the original narrative of the dream. This makes him more powerful than any other being in Mundus (gets more complicated when one considers that Mannimarco used the Mantella to ascend)

[@Fortify2030]

Also bare in mind that Zurin was probably half-elf, so after the merging in one deity Talos gained elven aspect as well. So Talos combined anu and padomai aspects in one being...

[@MrRevan0035]

+Zaric Zhakaron If the resolution of conflict in the Iliac Bay, the ascendence of Mannimarco, and the final death of the Under King caused the Warp in the West therefore creating a new timeline through a dragon break, would you consider the introduction of the Yokudans and the Sinistral elves into Tamriel to be a previous dragon break or is it something else all together?

[@Gamerpower]

Episode 7 still in the make ? I never learned so much about ES as in this movies! Great work :)

[@Tonius126]

I think Lorkhan tricked/convince the other et' ada to create mundus in the sole purpose that it can study the wheel or aurbis. It also knew that it would be killed and took advatage of that because with it's death, it would be able to create aspect of himself via Shezzarine. With its Shezzarine it would have free reign to walk mundus and achieve CHIM without the threat of zero sum(and do whatever the hell it wants) Unlike the other aedra, Lorkhan is free, the ultimate representation of freedom and liberty at the cost of his fellow devine of thier own. If you think about it, he's pretty much a selfish, greedy asshole.

[@misterkefir]

PLEASE, do more of these! ASAP.

[@Strawhat_Kal]

Are you going to make another one?

[@theshitlordhopeyougettrigg2307]

Tiber Septim how you get internet connection

[@andrewcameron4277]

Tiber Septim turns out the underking never died and still lives on in modern day with ... internet connection.... unfortunately due to the time warp no one remembers that he is a true king

[@Strawhat_Kal]

Ang ! You caught me

[@Arcantropolo]

or... CHIM.

[@antonderitu1877]

I thank you for your videos. you helped me stabilise my skyrim game. Im also fascinated by your lore series. They are informative and really good than most videos out there. I hope you make more lore videos or just more informative videos. You may not call yourself a lore master, but you are certainly elligible to be one.

[@mikaeladeleon7128]

addicted...I even took pages and pages of notes of your series. sigh

[@PSNSMANIACALMIND1st]

be sure to cross reference with the sites in the first episode, most of this episode is HEAVILY debatable. Zaric interpreted a lot of the mythical Talos info differently.

[@mikaeladeleon7128]

+PSNSMANIACALMIND1st differently bad? I haven't revised my notes yet but I find the idea of three becoming one in the form of Talos rather fascinating.

[@PSNSMANIACALMIND1st]

+Mikaela DeLeon I don't believe in a bad sort of different when it comes to lore, but I believe understanding the multiplexity to be more important than aligning to a single interpretation.

[@PSNSMANIACALMIND1st]

+Mikaela DeLeon If you're interested, I'd say this is the most interesting post as it further complicates the legitimacy of Talos. Tead this bethesda post (linked in the reddit post) and u/Samphire's analysis in the reddit comments. www.reddit.com/r/teslore/comments/4bdpnn/betrayal/

[@PSNSMANIACALMIND1st]

+Zaric Zhakaron I get what you mean, but without the Scifi elements it would still be a Tolkienian fantasy to me. Dune was brought in to morrowind to break that mold. While I don't see the scientific lore to be the truth of the elder scrolls universe like our own, it is an interesting counterperspective that allows for further discussion and interpretation. In my mind, science is just a brand of magic under a radically different philosophy.

[@michaelrussell7806]

So when on the timeline does Dagoth Ur tell the Nords about the Heart? As in, was this before, after or during the Battle of Red Mountain? I remember Vivec telling us something of the Nords appearing there, but most of the other sources don't mention them (as I recall). Just asking for some clarification here.

[@skyrimbear7106]

i have one question when does voryn dagoth speak to the nords about the heart of shor i though that the war of the first council was fought upon the discovery of the use of shor heart by the dwemer did voryn dagoth tell the nords about it so they can be a distraction from the dunmer army ?

[@billtnp3875]

Zurin and Wulfharth fused into the Underking that creates Daggerfall, when they activated the Numidium in separate timelines which made them the same being.

[@Ghostyx1989]

I always look forward to these videos

[@tsgaming6033]

Amazing series, just finished watching them!!! Please do more!!!!

[@osamaaftabusman3121]

Fantastic series, waiting for episode seven!

[@scottish8900]

great work interesting to hear the differences between these two ancient hero's

[@slamallama2385]

I love this series please never stop

[@lakonikos8791]

I thought I knew a good deal of TES lore. After I watched this, I feel like a begginer again.

[@jemolk8945]

Well, I finally watched the playlist you have here, and this series is awesome. Can't wait to see your take on the Heart, the Battle of Red Mountain and the Tribunal. I especially want to know what you think happened to the Dwemer, since as far as I can tell, nothing in actual canon can give us any hint of the answer. Personally, I've been having in my headcanon the idea that they achieved Amaranth and we see nothing of them because basically they no longer give a damn. Why? I just like the idea better, that's all. None of the conclusions seem to have any more real evidence behind them than any other, after all.

[@azraelbokor9588]

Will you ever talk about necromancy? I heard it was one of the oldest magics on Nirn, yet it seems to be one of the most arcane, unknown. And how does necromancy relate to the soul cairn and the ideal masters, did they come before or after the magic of necromancy? What would the implication be if necromancy came before the masters, does it mean that of all magics, necromancy should be considered a seperate school entirely, and the masters are the apex of necromantic power, and they created the soul cairn as an extension of that power. Or was the soul cairn already established, being the source of necromancy, and the masters were created with it? Another question I've always had is, in the world of TES is it possible to create a perfect undead? Not a lich, vampire, or zombie, but something nearly indistinguishable from life, something that grew and aged but never got "old", that was immortal and but mimicked mortality?

[@parsesnarseh7536]

You cover the lore brilliantly. But i wish that you would make more videos not necessarily telling the lore in chronological order but discussing more deep lore and concepts. Also tribunal are barely mentioned in the series. Great job nonetheless! I would for one love to see more episodes!

[@ArmouredProductions]

If the Numidium is a mech the size of a Pacific Rim Jaeger, how did Vivec "give" it to Tiber & how does one transport it if it was missing it's power source.

[@3lloGuvner]

Armoured Productions A *LOT* of feather spells.

[@FriendlyArchpriest]

*C H I M* (yeah, I know, this was before...)

[@carna-9501]

Armoured Productions a wizard did it

[@HardcoreHector]

Vivec stopped a meteor, so I can't imagine it was hard

[@Sehtlimbo]

Vivec was still a God so I’m guessing teleportation or levitation.

[@KingRumar]

Nordic history and religion is so rich and vibrant. Makes you almost cry from the beauty

[@FormidableFungi]

This is excellent nerdery! Well done sir!

[@TheSectorM]

Question about Ysmir: The Greybeards say that they formally recognized Tiber Septim as Dragonborn and named him Ysmir, Dragon of the North (which is then repeated for the Last Dragonborn in the 4E). So, was Wulfharth the one who actually stood before the Greybeards and gained that title? Or was there more than one person bearing that title at the same time (Tiber Septim AND Wulfharth)? Or do the Greybeards have it wrong? Apologies if this has been answered elsewhere already. Cheers!

[@cancerbucket2245]

Probably just a Effekt of the dragon break

[@ev3603]

1:14 wuts up with flash of girl wear white grey and red for

[@jell0berryroger831]

EV 360 she's that chick from Heman, Kyne looks like her

[@ryanstannard1933]

when do you plan on releasing the next one? these are very interesting i had no idea the lore was so confusing lol

[@Sdesser]

Any chance you'd make more of these lore videos?

[@yazabner]

FINALYYYYYYY the episode is here i was waiting for this

[@andreyrussian2480]

Whell, if shezzarin's appearence is counteraction then what was the action at the first place? Alduin's end of times or what? Daedra invasion? Aedra's hunger for power?

[@trapstargth33]

wow great lore series hope you can continue

[@pineappledude2048]

Great video Really love your content. Keep up the good work!

[@TehFlush]

This was by far the clearest explanation. I actually get it now. I think

[@gendor5199]

Feth I'm late, but... I wanted to ask people, as someone who couldn't get into Morrowind because there was little hand holding (I pretty much got lost after 20 or so minutes of walking and when I reached a city on a giant flea I got lost there as well, not to talk about having to find out about a topic before learning about it as if I was playing a detective game) but I could get into Skyrim because it was easy to learn, should I try out Oblivion? What other early games may not be as pretty as skyrim but at the same time doesn't force you to go detective to learn the lore would you recommend?

[@Sehtlimbo]

None dude lmao if you can’t handle it then I’d just watch let’s plays. 🤣

[@Sehtlimbo]

@@Super50ldier piss off

[@Sehtlimbo]

@@Super50ldier listen cornball if you keep replying to me I’m gonna keep insulting you and I’ll get my friends on Twitter to insult you as well.

[@Cool_Adam]

I feel like the new lore ep is gonna be about the bretons or redguards or nords or imperials...

[@TheDragogiovanni]

This is more and more proving a theory that you play Shor in Skyrim! The fact that men are in civil war against each other due to the Thalmor, and that Alduin has come back to enslave men, and the fact that Thalmor want worship of Talos to stop all suggest that Dragonborn is the Shezzarine or Shor incarnate!!! Plus Shor is not in Sovrengarde when you go there!!!

[@user-ys3jq3uf4p]

Hayabusa Dragon shor/lorkhan was killed in the dawn era and only temporarily ressurected as kinda mentioned in the video so the last part makes sense

[@NamelessKing1597]

Wait, so Lorkhan/Shor/Shezzir has his heart cut out and shot into the ocean creating a volcano, then got it cut out again and left under the same volcano. How many hearts does he have?

[@Fortify2030]

1. Heart in the volcano was original heart of Lorkhan/Shor 2. Heart in the Numidium was the heart of Wulfharth (avatar of Lorkhan/Shor)

[@highwaymanlee4467]

Are you going to make an episode on the tribunal and how they came to be?

[@Acronimz]

Wait where is the next episode

[@TheSmokeyDawn]

No more lore videos? I love these.

[@ryancoldiron554]

@Zaric Zhakaron slightly confused about accounts of shor’s defeat at red mountain. Wasn’t his heart already there bc Auriel shot it with his bow and created red mountain? How would Dagoth cut a heart out when it’s under the mountain with the dwemer?

[@carle2511]

I’m not sure, but it was the dwemer lord kagrenac that had found the heart of lorkhan in red mountain, (remember he was using tonal architecture on it to make the dwemer ascend into immortality and ultimate power) When the tribunal and Dagoth ur we’re fighting the dwemer, red mountain and the heart came to be in their possession. Dagoth ur ultimately obtaining it. Watch episode 7 it explains it better.

[@vcfb62]

If Tiber, Wulfharth & Zurin are aspects of Lorkhan/Shezzar/Shor & they became Talos the god, is Talos the god Lorkhan/Shezzar/Shor?

[@killerfurball]

The idea is that they mantled him (which is to say took his place). It is one of the reasons the Thalmor want Talos worship gone. Not only is it an affront to them that a human could ascend, but that Lorkhan is now represented as one of the divines is a major slap in their face as they blame Lorkhan for losing their divinity. And as long as he, or an aspect of him, is worshiped they can never ascend back to divinity.

[@hotcoldman]

I think the deepest cut in the Septim/Talos lore is that the heirs of the Septim dynasty (Uriel VII, Martin) are actually descended from Tiber's brother. Tiber's direct bloodline ended with his grandson. Yet all of the future Septims still inherited dragon blood.

[@Imperiused]

Criticism: I know the story but you seemed to somehow make it more confusing with this video. As an example: in the Heresy, it rather straightforwardly states that Ysmir came to Hjalti at Old H'roldan as a thundercloud and followed him ever since as his Voice. In your telling he sort of drops out of existence after becoming the Underking and then when addressing the Numidium you say "its not known how they found out that Wulfharth was with them the entire time." There is no prepping for this revelation at all in this telling (and to my knowledge no source which claims such a revelation happened at this point in time, but that's beside the point) and no explanation as to why he was with them or when he joined them. There were a few moments like this through the video, but this one stood out the most to me while writing this comment.

[@jackdaly4258]

pls continue the lore vids theyre great

[@lamorte42]

"They were close to desertion. Then Wulfharth said: "Don't you see where you really are? Don't you know who Shor really is? Don't you know what this war is?" And they looked from the King to the God to the Devils and Orcs, and some knew, really knew, and they are the ones that stayed."

[@Rockah0lic]

This seems really cool but what the heck is the context!? What are you referring to?

[@lamorte42]

Read "Five Songs of King Wulfharth" The setting is during the Battle of Red Mountain. Wulfharth tells his troops "Don't you see where you really are?" Where they are is in the middle of a Dragon Break in which local time and events reset back to the Dawn Era. Time doesn't behave as it should during a Dragon Break which is important in its larger context within the lore. "Don't you know who Shor really is?" During a Dragon Break there is no distinctions between races, gods, and cultures, only the Old Ehlnofey and Wandering Ehlnofey. Shor is Lorkhan who led the Wandering Ehlnofey during the Dawn Wars. "Don't you know what this war is?" The warriors find themselves in the middle of conflict that mirrors the 'War of manifest metaphors' of the Dawn Era. The Dwemer and House Dagoth become like the Old Ehlnofey who followed Auri-El and the Chimer Houses, Orcs, and Nords become as the Wanderers following Lorkhan. History is repeating itself in the most significant way possible and Wulfharth's warriors are in the middle of it. The ones that truly heard his words and recognized their true meaning were the ones that stayed to fight.

[@zbynek.gazdik]

ELDER SCROLLS LORE IS FUCKING AMAZING!!!! I mean it's so complicated and you can never know what really happened and I will never truly understand it. It's essentially like real history. And that's what makes the Elder Scrolls world stand out for me. Big like, man!

[@XenonBlu]

In many ways like actual history, as the saying goes, history is told by the victors, and many a time history has been bent to fit the victors, so contradictions in historical sources are often present.

[@HQ_Default]

So The Elder Scrolls has the first known case of an in-universe retcon then? Also, what ARE the actual divines? Or is that still under debate?

[@projectpems8304]

The Divines are planets. I'm not even joking about that part. The Divines are not the god of their sphere of influence, but literally are their sphere of influence e.g Akatosh isn't the god of time, he is time itself. These beings manifest themselves in the same way that the Daedra do in the form of a plane(t) made of their power.

[@HQ_Default]

Brian Ngo Soooo... the divines aren't living things. Or at least not in the traditional sense.

[@projectpems8304]

HQDefault No, they are. Sort of. When the world was being made, Lorkhan essentially tricked all the et'Ada (Original Spirits) into sacrificing themselves to make the world. When they found out, a bunch of things happened. Those who escaped before the world was finished became the Magne-Ge. They tore holes to Aetherius and made the stars. Those who didn't do anything to help make the world became the Daedra, although they weren't called that until later on. Those who were stuck in Mundus became the Ehlnofey. Of these, a few more different things occured. Those who gave all of their power into making Mundus became the Earthbones. Essentially the laws of reality. The gods are kind of like Earthbones, except they're barely alive and float around Mundus as plane(t)s, still somewhat influencing the world. The moons Masser and Secunda (Big and little moon) are actually the corpse of Lorkhan's plane(t) after his divinity (The Heart of Lorkhan) was removed. His Void Ghost apparently uses the Serpent constellation to travel to Aetherius (Where he rules as Shor) and back to Mundus (So he can incarnate as a Shezarrine). Said Serpent constellation moves around the sky and tries to "eat" the other ones.

[@HQ_Default]

Brian Ngo I guess that makes enough sense. But really all I wanted to know was which race got the religion right, if any. (Though judging by what I've seen, I wouldn't be surprised if they're all 100% correct.)

[@projectpems8304]

HQDefault All of them are half-right, to make matters more confusing. Which is to say, it's pretty much impossible to tell. Most people go with the elven or human view of things, since most races of Elder Scrolls lore are either human or elven. Argonians on the other hand might be from another timeline, and the Bretons' religion was based off of that of their elven overlords.

[@iainfry4155]

If Talos is a Shezzarine, that means he can still manifest in Nirn just like Shor/Lorkhan did right? I was often under the impression that the 9 divines were the earthbones and so could not manifest that much. The more I watch your videos, the more it seems that the 9 divines aren't the earthbones and are just powerful ehlnofey

[@travus111]

great video, thanks for teaching us about the lore, btw i have a question can someone be a shezarrine and dragonborn?

[@howardmoon3075]

yes

[@travus111]

thanks

[@travus111]

+Gage Godwin thanks, I just thought of a cool build that is a champion of both, again thanks

[@lamorte42]

It's possible that is exactly what the LDB was. Also Pelinal Whitestrake probably was as the guy above mentioned

[@skyslayer6104]

Like the vid, though I personally think Orkey has no totem, with Shor bring the snake, and Ysmir being the fox.

[@lol69203]

Wow, sweet channel. Any plans to continue these lore vids?

[@Ryan-fh9fh]

You forgot To mention Tiber Septim also achieved CHIM and that Talos manteled Lorkhan and replaced/became him

[@Bybrunoxp45]

Great video, please keep it up

[@TheSuperQuail]

Talos is the biggest headfuck in all TES lore. And I love it.

[@IRONSIIGHTz]

I'd love a movie on the rise of Talos, imagine seeing the numidium in 2016 cgi 😱

[@jell0berryroger831]

IRONSIIGHTz *2017

[@scottz9834]

*2018

[@giannimatteo9196]

I will return to this chain in a good ten months, and leave a comment none will expect!

[@paladinheadquarters7776]

Or 2018-2019 CGI.

[@iamaheretic7829]

*2019

[@Ryu_no_Ninja]

If i had a son, i would have named him Wulfharth. Like the sound and meaning of it.

[@2idiotsandamicpodcast661]

Ysmir Wulfharth chilling in sovngarde after one of his deaths *Gets resurrected* "Oh shit, not this again"

[@NoradNoxtus]

So deep you'd dig up to China...

[@odd-eyes6363]

I just don’t understand how Tiber Septim managed to unite his soul with the other heroes, since all the emperors are supposed to be reunited with Alessia inside of the amulet of kings

[@rodolfoalvim]

is about time to have another episode don't you think? events such as the disappearance of the dwarves along the Falmer enslavement and the origin of the dunmer is still to be told by your interpretation of the Lore...

[@chlaospooks1712]

So basically Talos is a cluster fuck

[@arawn1061]

Sneaky Sneaky yea

[@larrydavinci2844]

This topic is soooooooo confusing

[@NarsMcain]

fucking honestly out of all the videos this one has to be the most convoluted

[@TheDragogiovanni]

This is helping prove that the Dragonborn is Shor reincarnate! The Greybeards call you Yesmir in the game.

[@LynnWinx]

I hate that I knew most of that already, and yet I have no idea who the prime minister of my country even is.

[@deanr.throckmortonjr.133]

Hello, I am an aspiring mod developer and I just finished watching your Elder Scrolls lore series and am now watching your What if Skyrim were good series, and I would love to pick your brain in regards to my mods and ESL in general?

[@michaelmcghee6594]

Wait so who do you speak with in Morrowind? is there a form that Talos takes that resembles one of the three or is he an entirely new being with characteristics of all of them simultaneously? ES lore....

[@arawn1061]

Michael McGhee he is all of them and none of them at the same time... But since he is now a god His is all of them and has Always been none of them Its simple really.

[@michaelmcghee6594]

Aron Johansson. Lol brilliant thank you!