[TF2] Stop the Slop

It didn't get better
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Please respect each other in the comments.

[@Monkey_XDD]

I just wanna say this. I don’t like making these types of videos, but if nobody else is gonna talk about it then I will do it. A Twitter post or reddit post isn’t gonna be enough. And surely nobody else is gonna talk about it on this platform because it might hurt their sub count or social status. I’m not considering myself a hero or anything, I am voicing my concerns for the game’s charm and longevity, and reminding of what people are really here for. You can play whatever you want, but TF2 should always remain as a casual, team based-class based first person shooter, and you should NOT strip anything away from that. Gmod is right around the corner people.

[@owen608yt]

I feel like prop hunt will be a community only thing , zombie game mode was fun towards me, but stuff can be fixed, it was gimmicky for Halloween, not tf2. But about the gmod thing: TRUEEE

[@cicadaknight3048]

"I'm not some sort of hero" Nobody said that "Social status" Only you seem to care about that every big creator shits on valve and the state of the game every now and then. You seem really focused on this "other creators won't say it well I will!!!" perspective, perhaps there's other reasons people don't "talk about it", because it doesn't really matter. People won't play it if it's such a novelty just like pass time and that will be it I don't understand why you call this point of view "delusional" and that people (like me) who think that way should go back to Roblox or whatever. DeGroot Keep is such a fun little "minigame" (as you call gimmick gamemodes like these) that very few people play every now and then because its just fun to play tf2 but melee only. What if other small groups of people find tf2 but zombies endearing as well? etc Very weak video tbh could have been redeemed if you didn't clearly (in my opinion) think you have the ultimate truth that 'must be said' so to speak

[@milesdavis3921]

Yeah and its not like its expensive or anything either, gmod is like 10 bucks and any other zombie game like l4d2 (barely 10 bucks) and 7days to die with dying light are roughly 30$ i know people sometimes cant spend much money on games i get it but still...

[@flamingkittyumad]

What do you think 'charm and logevity' in tf2 actually means? Releasing new and interesting game modes and events is good for the game, do you expect them to only release generic payload maps?

[@Monkey_XDD]

@@flamingkittyumad for 16 years people have been playing the same game, people boot up TF2 and expect the same class based first person shooter, that fight over territory and control points. They don’t launch it for prop hunt. That’s where Gmod is for. Just because you can make prop hunt with v script doesn’t mean it needs to be in the game. And also, community servers exists, and from what I’ve seen nobody plays prop hunt. So no, adding this to the game would not increase its longevity, it would take away charm for what this game is.

[@mrnutman096]

that krampus map looks so cool and, more importantly, actually FITS tf2. its 100% the kind of game to have krampus as a character

[@Supershadow301]

Considering we already have the Australian Santa, yeah

[@EthVortexShield]

Too furry coded

[@dkskcjfjswwwwwws413]

​@@EthVortexShieldzesty jesus when hes driving and sees a deer on the road

[@CharaGonzalez-lt7yw]

@@dkskcjfjswwwwwws413 literally me

[@bobertastic6541]

@@EthVortexShield well on tf2 you are either gay, a furry, racist, or all 3.

[@BlueStarSixtyFour]

oh monkys paw, please bring back the days where TF2 got regular updates. and a finger curled

[@30.lehoanggiaphuc61]

Mönkey's paw lol

[@familiayoutuber4769]

Oh dear, this is the megaman battle network dude.

[@on_the_inverse_5193]

*The Zombified corpse of Gabe Newell knocks on the door*

[@Torkujra]

@@on_the_inverse_5193 Come on man, not every undead guys knocking on the front door is a zombified Gabe Newe-

[@duckesome]

​@@TorkujraHi, this is zombie Gabe

[@listertf2]

I'm glad people are speaking up about this ahead of time. What bothers me the most about these new V-Script modes is the fact that Valve is adding so many maps for them - why would you splinter an already niche gamemode even further??? And of course that also makes the bloated map list even worse

[@simplysmiley4670]

To me it's not about the amount of maps, honestly imo it's good to have more then 1, prevents the gamemode getting too boring too fast. No. It's more about lack of any Quality Assurance. The maps don't get playtested and it's how we get ZI Woods or a botched version of Sanatorium instead of more balanced and fleshed out maps.

[@DEWILL]

As long as you don’t queue, problem is irrelevant. I’m having a hard time understanding why people are saying it’ll ruin TF2’s purity, when adding Prop Hunt as a seasonal gamemode isn’t equal to removing badwater or upward from the game

[@arthurpietrogarcia1057]

@@DEWILL gmod's at the corner dude, this ain't silly sandbox game, its first person team based shooter. And in this fricking game mode one of the teams don't even have first person or shooter! Just team based.

[@DEWILL]

@@arthurpietrogarcia1057 Can you explain me why class based fps shooters shouldn’t have alternative seasonal gamemodes? If you gonna keep on saying “Cause it’s class based fps shooter”, it’s just a looping circle without a proper logic so.

[@dkskcjfjswwwwwws413]

​@@simplysmiley4670degroot is 1 map and noone complains

[@r4dbro]

Basically every popular gamemode in each valve game gets officially added to TF2, while I am aware that it might be good or bad, I just need AN OPTIMIZATION UPDATE FOR TF2 !!!. Most of the time now when playing TF2, I get lots and lots of lag either due to my craptop not processing the chaos it's happening, or the servers keeping on crashing whenever I join one.

[@Monkey_XDD]

I have to restart my game to just reset the game’s cache for maps. Due to many things being custom, it overwrites certain textures and the hud. And when you load in to Monsterbash after Farmageddon (or whatever they pumpkin map is called) You are most likely going to experience missing textures in the bud because the game’s cache failed to reset correctly.

[@MeatwadMeatwad]

I love how slop is now just a normal term on the internet lol.

[@PerplexPrays]

it was destined to be

[@ChronoSquare]

yum yum goyslop so good pop pop pop

[@Sandvich18]

that's what always happens to 4chan lingo

[@MeatwadMeatwad]

@@Sandvich18 at least its funny to see people use it when they don't know the context it was original used in.

[@nothanks39]

​@@MeatwadMeatwad what was the original context it was used in (i am curious)

[@NeverackWinteright]

I am kind of on the fence about all this. I like seeing new gamemodes be added, but I agree they should have some sort of balance and player testing (wild dreams I know). I also find it really hypocritical that the people who complain "there are too many maps" unironically play Dustbowl and 2fort, notoriously bad maps but get the pass because they are "OG"

[@NicoLas-xy3ew]

im an og player and i play on any map that is not confusing. i do try newer maps out, i want to check out what i missed out honestly.

[@honkhonk8009]

Maps should be temporary. Older unplayed maps should be cycled out in favour of new ones. Same with events like VSH/Zombie infection. These events should be available once a month and give out exclusive contracts, and should go out of service for an undefined amount of time. That would make sure they keep feeling SPECIAL. Its like the McRib. They add it back spontaneously and people love it. If it was a permanent addition, people would hate it.

[@cubix_walrus7560]

A lot of the newer maps are either reskins of existing maps with little new to offer or they're "bad" bad, unlike older maps which yeah are bad, but they're a "fun" bad. Comparing Dustbowl to Wutville is like comparing drinking soda to drinking sewage, both are bad for you, but you at least enjoy drinking one of the two.

[@neondead2.0.15]

Dustbowl is not a bad map, it's one of the maps that FORCE you to play as a team OR be spawncamped (and than some spies just backcaped point since everyone went to spawncamp).

[@yogurtColombiano]

Only street OGs know the real fun in bad maps. Alike cashworks and its last point's bridge.

[@toasty_mann]

Why are we so mad, werent we just 3 updates ago begging for anything? Now suddenly we're too good for it and just want the crates and maps? Make up your mind goddamn Not saying zombie escape is perfect and Im not begging for prophunt but its better than the same crummy holiday reskinned maps because these are at the bare minimum different

[@toasty_mann]

Also why omit your reasons for not queueing for the maps you dislike? Saying "UHHHHH play road blocks, kid" is not a good argument for what's a large hole in your entire argument

[@dkskcjfjswwwwwws413]

>implying people werent mad about bad modes years ago >mannpower >passtime >just dont play it bro >nobody plays it >not even you >???

[@toasty_mann]

@@dkskcjfjswwwwwws413 what the fuck are you talking about. I don't see people steaming mad like this guy is over mann power lmao

[@uprank]

missing textures/models in added maps are valves fault btw, they compile the maps on their end before adding them into tf2 which means they need to re-pack the custom assets which is a pain in the ass to do and it is easy to forget assets if the map has alot of them.

[@flamingkittyumad]

the maps are only broken for the first time you play them, restart your game and it's fixed. ez pz.

[@uprank]

Agreed, But first impressions are important. seeing giant red errors or broken viewmodels may put someone off an entire gamemode/map if they feel so inclined

[@rojoscostanada8685]

Wait so that glitch in Garry's Mod TF2 maps was because of TF2?

[@flamingkittyumad]

@@uprank tf2 is an old game, unless you were a 12 year old and this is your first time playing any source game, everyone knows there are some quirks to source/ tf2

[@Monkey_XDD]

Did you see when they updated Soul-Mill? There were missing textures EVERYWHERE, and there was a giant error sign on zi_murky for DAYS without it being fixed, even tho updates and fixed were addressed before all of that.

[@sergioescobar1391]

Thank you for finally taking a stand against Pyrocynical.

[@NotoriousF.A.G]

Okay this but unironically, though

[@greyarea6688]

This dude backed and believed Venusian Rapper lol

[@notanarcissist9853]

@@greyarea6688 Source?

[@Monkey_XDD]

@@greyarea6688 I thought Venusian was just some unhinged dude but then I quickly realized what he was doing. The Fatmagic cheating thing was interesting but then I realized that he’s just doing this for drama points, and it’s just all so unnecessary. And he got knocked out of the park by Vorobey and that video was a joy to watch.

[@sparkie1j]

Also pyrocynical is a groomer

[@Mr_lugi]

real ones know this was both a reupload + unlisted 🗿

[@colanialcranial283]

Audio Nonexistent

[@_KroW_]

audio? whats that?

[@OldmanIm]

He'll be fine though.

[@ADHDIIncarnate]

Hi lugi

[@herpyberpy2461]

Funny audio moment

[@BlueSnowBerry]

The zombie infection gamemode is really old but they added twists to this one, the zombies were once just medics and the survivors were only engineers that could build dispensers and teleporters, now it's an all class catastrophe and I liked it at first cause it was something new kinda but it's just dog barf and sorta like it

[@Veltek_]

That's one variation. Another is zombie escape (?) with knockback, control points and super high HP zombies, but yeah I'd say what you mentioned is the most fun EDIT: there's a couple more variations, but I don't remember exactly the details for each.

[@legospartan3.042]

I like the classic medics vs engineers. Very enjoyable. With a lot of custom maps made for it.

[@Karatarari]

There are so many versions of this, we've had shit that mirrors the current version too just without interesting mechanics, same with VSH. Maybe its just me not playing the game for years but like why bitch about new stuff being added in a semi-official way?

[@Veltek_]

@@legospartan3.042 very sad those servers (rushy servers) are pretty dead, at least for eu

[@indecisivemann4349]

the version i remember only spy heavy and scout were zombies and you could select perks. that was my favorite

[@staceymcnae4434]

Community :"We want new items and balance changes" Valve: here's 3 new gamemodes

[@EvilSantaTheTrue]

Nahhh the higher priority is finally optimizing the game

[@staceymcnae4434]

@Cakidie you right, we got the technology, but it might be a big task for the 2 devs still working on tf2

[@MrFireWolf]

"""new"""

[@pseudonomenclature8054]

Isn't Zombie Infection literally SUPPOSED to have a small winrate for Survivors? Isn't that sort of reflected by how surviving once as survivors gives you 30 points on your contract? That's how the zombie infection community server gamemode usually played out in most scenarios anyway back in the day. It's supposed to be difficult to win as Survivors. It's supposed to be an achievement to do so. That's literally the point.

[@ChronoSquare]

it was hella fun when I rallied a casual server into winning on the garage level for the first time in like 16+ loses

[@evdestroy5304]

That's just bad game design.

[@pseudonomenclature8054]

@@evdestroy5304 If it's intended and it works and it's the main reason the gamemode can feel so rewarding then it literally is not bad game design.

[@wrongemail5242]

@@evdestroy5304 dude will just call something they don’t like bad game design

[@evdestroy5304]

@wrongemail5242 I mean, it is. Why even play the game if the result of every match is going to be the same every single time? That's called poor balancing, not rewarding gameplay lmao. That's like calling Wutville well designed because "Well, it's supposed to be challenging to defend!" Also, for the record, the map makers don't decide the contracts. That's all Valve. On top of that, the zombies get double points for kills, so you also get actively rewarded for becoming a zombie, which completely kills that argument of why it's "supposed to be that way"

[@ShockInazuma]

The TF2 Community can never be truly satisfied… I'd wager even a proper update would satisfy this community. New summer update: Mad people. VScript implemented: Mad people. Someone trying to find a way to eliminate bots and cheaters: Mad people (of the cheating variety)

[@gaming_bigfoot]

I can agree to leaving the community modes to the community, for sure

[@minicritman999]

I disagree. While they could be implemented better, these game mode updates give the community games a “second chance”. I had played very little Saxton Hale before and had never tried TF2s zombie mode before it was added. Tf2s prop hunt was something I put dozens of hours into, but now all the community servers remain dead. If an official Vscript mode brings it back for even a while it will be worth it.

[@memele4991]

THIS :D. Of all the arguments people give for and against they forget some crucial details... 1. Prop hunt is fukin awesome 2. you can choose to just play "the tf2 experience" regardless@@minicritman999

[@theghosttm8245]

Some of the community game modes could work with development time like VSH Prop Hunt, TF2 Ware, Slender Fortress, etc. shouldn’t be in Casual at all. Community Prophunt > Vscript Prophunt Much more balanced and fun

[@ninjadanoite1560]

I don't wanna waste four hours of MY life downloading 1000000 useless files.

[@Piper9080]

@@ninjadanoite1560 You're effectively going to be doing the same once you end up not playing the official version anyway, so works both ways I guess. One at least gives you the option to go into it and download god knows how many items, the other is forced upon you bcs its official

[@theghosttm8245]

@@ninjadanoite1560 Vscript makes it so it’s part of the map I don’t want PH in Casual what I mean is what about more TF2 themed like Stop That Tank!

[@SashaTheGun]

@@theghosttm8245 that gamemode have shutted down by creators themselves tho, due to unpopularity. There is only few STT servers left alive, but almost no one plays on them, and your company is only bots

[@theghosttm8245]

@@SashaTheGun oof Wanted to play it again and I couldn’t find any Sadge

[@25kamul]

I'm certainly not a fan of chucking new untested content onto the wall just to see what sticks, but let's not throw out the baby with the bathwater and claim that we should return to single crate "updates"; remember that we were stuck in this hell for over 4 years until last summer and no one was happy about it. All I want are a few (three or four) WELL DONE maps and, I cannot stress this enough, some balance changes for once.

[@PoopTickler]

The slippery slope has begun. Can't wait for TF2's FNAF spinoff.

[@dkskcjfjswwwwwws413]

fnaf map already exists

[@Monkey_XDD]

Can’t wait for TF2 dodgeball

[@engagingbus7991]

Slippery slop

[@Neoniq41]

Cant wait for a dating simulator to be added

[@SaintRedFox]

FINALLY, THE SEX UPDATE@@Neoniq41

[@herbivorethecarnivore8447]

3:14 I think this is the main flaw in your point. You say what people are "here to play", but that's not your decision. If people want to play zombies or VSH or are excited for a prop hunt gamemode, let them be. I don't think there's any gain to being negative about this. The new stuff may be a bit rushed and broken, but it's still new stuff. Plus, you did have a whole segment earlier in the video about letting people have fun and "you do you".

[@soundproof132]

It's about setting standards for what is expected from updates from here on out. Valce focussing on adding gimmicky gamemodes that dillute the casual experience and bloat the games performance and charm for quick cash instead of fixing genuine issues with the game is the problem.

[@fractalisomega9517]

The biggest issue with stuff like this is getting enough testers and going through the feedback Saxton is largely just a ported gamemode from community servers, but Zombie infection added a lot of new and unique stuff to try and stand out but didn't have much testing behind it

[@wolfcl0ck]

"I don't know anything about development, but-" Nope.

[@DEWILL]

I have to disagree with you on this, mate. A concept of seasonal side gamemode you can goof around with for fun isn’t wrong. Never wrong. And most importantly, adding it WON’T HARM the core TF2. I mean, how it can? Adding those somehow removes Badwater and Upward from the map pool? I agree that it should be polished and playtested enough to prevent letdown on release, but gatekeeping it? I mean, Jesus…

[@Spokenword]

I'd argue that these additions take away from the already limited time tf2 developers have to work on it and they will also change what workshop makers focus on. I think it's fair to say that there are core areas that need that attention more. What ended up happening to the community fixes? It doesn't harm tf2 in the sense that it doesn't replace what it's known for, but it harms it because it's spending the time and manpower tf2 team has on gamemodes and maps that will be forgotten in a few months.

[@DEWILL]

@@Spokenword So… Copypasting few more maps in the game each season is enough to eat up the entirety of TF2 dev team manpower? Uhm, well, I’m not a developer, but it doesn’t sounds like a job costs more than 10 minutes.

[@Spokenword]

@@DEWILL It appears that way, yes. That's also disregarding any potential issues and bugs that will eat even more time.

[@DEWILL]

@@SpokenwordWhich the creator of the gamemode handles, not the Valve.

[@Spokenword]

@@DEWILL Sound like all the reasons in favor of implementing those community fixes instead

[@FyerCrackerr]

"if you dont like it dont play it:)" Time for a well thought out and respectful answer. "fuck you go back to roblox" perfect

[@martinpachu7125]

yeah,that was when i really felt the contempt behind the video.

[@mr.teobruh977]

Yeah i hate how he didnt need to do that, he had good points outside of saying that sh

[@dkskcjfjswwwwwws413]

>if you dont like it dont play it >noone plays it now what? did you win?

[@Vedsetta]

"You're delusional if your argument is just to not play the sh!tty game modes" Refuses to elaborate. Meanwhile, the community proceeds to just not play the sh!tty game modes

[@Weldedhodag]

Settle for Less is the new TF2 slogan

[@TheREALLofiat]

@@Weldedhodag there's really nothing else we can do except for boycott valve (didn't go well last time) and try to make the most of the tools already given to us.

[@herb_2]

Yeah I liked this dude's content but he really seems like an @sshole, especially with that "go back to Roblox" thing

[@Iloveyou-dz7mq]

Don't ask questions, just play shitty game mode and get excited for the next shitty game mofe

[@dkskcjfjswwwwwws413]

whats your point, they added things that people dont play lol why even add them in the first place? yeah total moral victory over monkey, the modes we shill for are all dead because theyre bad!!!!

[@CherriPicking]

i have to disagree - people come to team fortress 2 for a lot of different gamemodes, not just "casual 12 v 12." i would tend to agree that there should be more quality control on what gets in, but to say that all new vscript gamemodes should just not be added because of initial implementation issues of the *first two gamemodes in half a decade* is extremely short-sighted. i, for one, think that the zombie mode is the most fun i've had in tf2 for quite a long time, even moreso than saxton hale which also breathed life into the game for me. if you don't want to play these new gamemodes, just don't queue for them!

[@tonycallme3667]

I agree with your opinion, despite being a gamemode restricted to a holiday, people treats it like Saxton Hale gamemode and people just won't take it if the quality aren't what they wanted. It's the most toxic behavior imo.

[@nukeplayer2847]

3 people that still play mannpower agree

[@pk_infone6974]

although there is a great argument here, most likely it will do nothing. tf2 fans are so deprived of anything that a new gamemode called "capture the poop (with v script)" will get into the game

[@akihikosakurai4013]

VSH is great and I think it adds to the game rather than takes away from it. This is TEAM fortress 2 and it feels great to have a game mode where working together to win is more important than your place on the leaderboard. Even if you die in VSH you still feel like you did a good job because every bit of damage you do brings saxton closer to dying. You could do 1k dmg and die in a totally bullshit way but it's fine because at least you did your part and contributed to the team

[@filthycasual6118]

>if you don't like the maps don't play them >okay >gamemode dies in a matter of weeks >new gamemode gets announced >cycle repeats

[@LeahThe3th]

It's not like they're impossible to queue up for, why does a gamemode have to appeal to the overall community (hint: impossible, not even Valve could do this) to have any staying power? People still play Mannpower and Pass-Time and fully well enjoy it, and it doesn't harm the overall community, what's the problem with adding niche modes that appeal to small groups?

[@Lucasberrin]

@@LeahThe3th The problem is that you must appeal to the masses, not to a small group. That's the issue.

[@LeahThe3th]

@@Lucasberrin No, no you don't, and they've proved that time and time again. TF2 in itself is not appealing to the masses, it's a team vs team arena style FPS released in a day and age where that was waning in popularity, and updated in an age where it was straight up unpopular. There are plenty of modes in the game that are just unpopular, but aren't really deemed an issue, PD was well enjoyed even if it was only on 1 map at first, Doomsday was an okay mode, PASS time and Mannpower have their own dedicated communities, etc. etc. VSH in itself is appealing to a small group, and even then it was deemed pretty good by the community once it worked.

[@Lucasberrin]

@@LeahThe3th Oh you silly lil kid. Literally everyone within at least 100 hrs on TF2 played VSH on community servers, so that was a mass appeal.

[@LeahThe3th]

@@Lucasberrin No, no they didn't, which is why VSH has over the years been a mode that struggles to stay on anything but the typical small sets, and FF2 is only popular due to the novelty of all the different characters, and ALSO struggles to stay on anything other than the small sets.

[@NodeNodeNode]

New game modes are not inherently a bad thing, and their addition to TF2 doesn't make TF2 less of itself. A great example of this would be MvM. It sure as hell broke TF2 conventions by being a PVE about fighting robots with weapon upgrades, and yet people still consider it an integral part of the games identity. (I do however agree that prophunt feels too wacky for official tf2)

[@Lethal_Spoon]

please don’t compare mvm to prophunt, mvm is actually good

[@bruxtle]

I mean at its core MVM is still a team based FPS, prop hunt isn't even in the same genre as TF2 and doesn't fit at all.

[@slyseal2091]

I think due to being divorced from the movement shooter aspects, Prophunt mainly doesn't fit as a standalone gamemode. It literally is already in the game in the form of Merasmus' healing phase, integrating it into the game would work by using the original Scream Fortress approach, as the gimmick of a new scream fortress boss.

[@TheREALLofiat]

@@Lethal_Spoon and so is VSH? He wasn't saying "prop hunt isn't bad" he was saying that the majority of gamemodes were not taking away from the game and by comparison to MVM aren't that out of place, I mean TF2's story really shifted when MVM was added. (edit: the rest of this is my own rant sorry lol you'll see "Edit: rant over" when it's done) Everyone was like fighting against robots instead of other players? Fighting 1, very powerful player instead of 12? Fighting a zombie horde with different abilities instead of classes that are the same as you? You see the similarity don't you? *(Edit: rant over)* He even said that prop hunt was too wacky for TF2

[@thetrueinferno7993]

MvM builds on top of the tf2 formula, with a huge amount of effort going into its design, gameplay and function. Its not just a game mode, its new items, new story, crafting, trading and new mechanics. Remember, it came out when the game had heaps of developers, artists and designers working on it and took YEARS to make, test and launch, not one month, or 3, or a single year, YEARS. Stop lowering your standards and respect yourself- and your cash, a bit more for gods sake.

[@SolaIvyCeleste]

This is something I don't understand: Why do people want TF2 to be modern? Modern games these days are just battlepass esports tailored games that try to cater to the most players possible by adding random gamemodes and pandering cosmetics and whatnot. TF2 is a game with its own identity, it should be kept that way. It doesn't need to copy whatever the new hot games are doing, it's already past its prime. TF2 will NEVER become mainstream again, I hold that opinion to heart. And honestly? It doesn't need to. This game has so much charm and passion in it that it's still up and running until now despite it having been so long since its golden era. I've played this game for 11 years now and I've loved it every step of the way, even with the frustrating roadbumps I've encountered. Stop trying to make TF2 something it isn't.

[@SamuelTrademarked]

yeah, tf2 is 16 years old, a game this old should not be forced to become modern, or even become modern at all, because all attempts at modernizing it will destroy the game

[@9onetwo223]

I'm sorry, I gotta disagree here. I'm completely behind you on the age-old frustration that Valve only takes community-made content and slaps it together for updates, don't get me wrong. And I'd certainly prefer that some of these maps mentioned like Krampus get more of the love they deserve as official additions instead of something like the Zombie Infection gamemode. But the idea that these new gamemodes detract from or devalue the core TF2 experience is downright silly. Outside of sweeping balance changes or weapon additions, the core TF2 experience will always remain. It might be disorienting for newer players that join in the midst of a holiday event (and the amount of Halloween maps that exist now is absolutely dizzying for sure), but it's by no means delusional to just play the main maps and gamemodes. Doesn't change the fact that I wish more fitting, better-quality stuff was added in lieu of shoddier community content, but let's be honest with ourselves: unless we send in our own secret agents from the TF2 community, Valve will continue to blindly sort through workshop contributions and slap the random fistful they find into the game for each update we get. It's not the fault of the people who made this stuff that it got chosen as official content. Nothing's getting stripped away from the core experience. Although some of this content may feel like weird additions, that doesn't make them subtractions by any means. Even if the next official gamemode added is a Balloonicorn Sleighride Race, you can bet your ass that I'll be excited to try it out in-game. And if it isn't fun, there's always Frontier or Upward for me. That's my two cents, anyhow. Keep up the good content, Mönkey!

[@martinpachu7125]

definitively agree that it doesnt take away from the experience,i think monkey is saying something about tf2's identity and perception,but i dont think a few new gamemodew will change it so drastically after so many years

[@9onetwo223]

@@martinpachu7125 I agree with this. I still think it's a bit silly to try and defend something so abstract and (at least currently) beyond our realm of control as TF2's identity from this new community content of all things, but I completely understand the frustrations that lie with seeing something you love take on an unfamiliar and even uncomfortable form, regardless of whether or not it remains a fundamental option to ignore it by playing another gamemode/map. For long-time & die-hard fans (myself included), moving past that feeling is no easy task.

[@orangy57]

almost guaranteeing you that this prophunt thing won't get in but I'd say tf2 survived for so long *because* of the custom gamemode stuff. There was never really any "Core TF2" experience when TF2 came out. Custom gamemodes and maps were basically the norm until quickplay was added, where the rules for regular tf2 were toned down. I'd say the grand overwhelming majority of tf2 players were ultra-casual players on community servers until about 2016/2017. You can see the drift because steamcharts shows that when TF2 lost a ton of community servers in 2017/2018 all of the people that played ultra-casually kinda just stopped playing or migrated to other games. While TF2 has really good bones in the core experience, the people that actually kept the game alive for over a decade were zoomers playing on trade_minecraft and freak fortress maps. I'd know because I *was* one of those zoomers playing custom gamemodes back in 2012. How do you not remember this? Weren't you there?

[@Monkey_XDD]

Mainly the unranked causal nature of the game was huge. I know community servers were there first before valve servers, but when valve servers hit, TF2 hit its mark and identity. Community servers can vary from rules and mechanics, no random crits, no rbs, class limits, custom maps rotations, custom gamemodes etc. However TF2 has never been serious and many people love the gameplay it offers, to play around an objective and fight the other team. Prop hunt removes this entirely from hiders, same thing goes for zombie infection. Ofc it doesn’t make these modes TERRIBLE. But the community tab exists for just this sort of reason. Casual mode should always remain as the base game. Sorry for the long novel in advance. And no I wasn’t around for this time, I believe I started playing TF2 in 2012 but it didn’t catch my interest till 2013 when I was really getting into it. But mainly by then I was hooked on valve servers, and sometimes I tried out the community stuff for some extra spice.

[@FelipeJaquez]

That's the thing, he wasn't there. My man joined after TF2 went free to play and introduced all these systems that killed community servers which were the life blood of so many old shooters. The server browser was how people used to find games that catered to their specific tastes and preferences. It's funny he styles himself as the "grizzled veteran" that's safeguarding the game from bad content without realizing the irony that he was once part of the horde that came in and killed someones old personal server and TF2 experience. The consolidation of the game into the same KZbinr approved maps and metas while being completely dependent on Valve to do everything. I guess it's all perspective. One mans slop era is another mans golden era. It feels great to be old.

[@dkskcjfjswwwwwws413]

@@FelipeJaquez >NOOOO WHY DID THEY KILL COMMUNITY SERVERS >boot up cs 1.6 >at least 30 servers running dust2 24/7 >yep "SIPPPPP" thats how its supposed to be

[@SnackPatrol]

@@dkskcjfjswwwwwws413 Yeah except we weren't talking about CS 1.6 were we? That game's lifecycle is 100% completely different and has been around since 1999 with the last major update literally over 20 years ago. There have been 3 successful sequels to the game since then, the franchise in its latest form being F2P for almost 6 years. Obviously there's a huge chance the original's gonna be next to dead, like any game in that scenario- That's an absurd analogy. I've been around since the start with TF2 (the Beta actually), and CS since about 2000-2001- TF2 is still fun now, and matchmaking has its benefits, but it was definitely better with a wide breadth of community servers to choose from. I would know, I ran one. People still talk to this day and have met up IRL who became friends there. They were some of my favorite memories that I wouldn't trade for the world. And oh yeah, know how about half those people discovered it? Quickplay. Up until around 2014 TF2 felt like going bar hopping in a lively fun town with friends, rather than going alone to a club you make small-talk at, moderately enjoy and then bounce. And I'm wondering if you were even around for that former era because you know it just hit different back then. It's like how MMO's have been watered down into spreadsheet simulators with 0 community or social aspect. The guy you're replying to wrote the most based, true TF2-related comment ever, you literally have no clue what you're talking about I'm sorry.

[@dkskcjfjswwwwwws413]

@@SnackPatrol buy vip for 5 dollars for 2x sentry health and to reduce its cost by 50%

[@O_vk]

I actually dont know why people complain about ZI being dead, ive been playing the gamemode everyday and its always full with players. Granted it may be related to timezones but the gamemode is fun in its own right and is entirely optional. I understand the main argument being the torrent of useless gamemodes being made official in the coming future but some of these projects were things creators made in their free time as passion projects before it got added officially

[@wonkglorg]

This exactly, I really enjoy Zombie Infecation, most matches usually end in 12/13 or 11/13 I rarely if every have a 1 sided match. Depending on the map ofc but both sides have a chance to win.

[@O_vk]

@@wonkglorg For real, I genuinely enjoy the gamemode for what it is and knowing that it was a passion project makes it feel unfair that it's getting caught in the crossfire

[@arosbastion7052]

The problem isn't the gamemode itself, the problem is that the devs are using what very little time they spend on tf2 doing these gamemodes that nobody cares about instead of actual changes people want

[@orangy57]

zombie infection isn't dead, it's just how the TF2 came coordinator detects people playing maps. It works based off of player joins, so every time it switches map it counts as 24 players entering that map. Since sombie infection takes 25 rounds to refresh the map, that +24 player count never gets ran, meaning that TF2 thinks it has less players joining relative to the other maps. This happened with VSH when it first dropped and actually became playable. It was the most popular by far in the summer update but since the matches literally never ended and the maps never changed due to a bug, the game coordinator detected that nobody was playing the maps and made the bar completely gray

[@minispy9770]

I disagree for the most part. Adding fun new gamemodes that only last for a single holiday update doesn't tarnish TF2's mighty prestige as a FPS. Team deathmatch is and always will be the main focus. Temporary gamemodes are not gonna slowly evolve the game into another GMOD. They would be nothing more than fun and quick little additions to the game. If Prop Hunt ends up being a permanent mode, then yes it would be a problem. But goddamn, this community really needs to loosen up and not be so serious about some goofy zombie mode that you won't see in a year. TF2 for me is about having fun. If Prop Hunt is fun then I will sure as hell play it regardless.

[@moony_otter]

The 'too much of a good thing' concept doesn't apply. 'Too much of a good thing' is specifically 'too much of ONE good thing'. Too much cake, too much video games, too much sleep, etc. The different things people are doing with TF2 using VScript is not 'too much of a good thing,' it's just a good thing that YOU don't like. Stop saying 'we' when talking about wanting or liking things, that's objective, and I think experimenting with a TF2-- a game where a lead-poisoned war criminal turned mercenary is roommates with a wizard who owns a talking book that cursed the Demoman's eye, which itself is summoned as a superpowerful floating eyeball boss every Halloween-- is a good thing. TF2 started out simple, and Valve experimented on it; built upon the foundation that was TF2. Let Spy fake his death on damage, let Pyro reflect rockets and other projectiles, let Scout gain superpowers by drinking radioactive soda, let Demoman just drop the whole 'Shooter' part of 'First-Person Shooter' and become a shield-charging menace. TF2 and it's source was MEANT to be toyed with, was MEANT to be experimented with, and was MEANT to have ideas mashed into it. I do agree that TF2 has an artstyle, and that it is a Class-Based shooter, but that doesn't mean that anything that isn't Payload, Attack/Defend, Capture the Flag, or 5-CP is illegal. Just because the new game modes drop off after awhile doesn't mean their existence is meaningless. The few people who ARE playing Zombie Infection, Vs Saxton Hale, Mann Vs Machine, Crasher, hell even Passtime, they are all (hopefully) enjoying themselves with this funny game. This is just the war between "Boomers" and "Zoomers" (even though that's such a stupid derogatory version of what's happening). The people that grew up with this game or got heavily invested in purely the concept of TF2 and its world, people who see what their beloved IP used to be get buried underneath unbalanced, buggy, low-quality content that is so far from what they know feel like they're being overrun. Meanwhile, the people that see this game as a creative platform to experiment and grow, who see TF2 as not just an IP, but as a chance to make something new and share it with the world all through the lens of our funny mercs; the ones who understand that Valve will not return to TF2, and it is up to the community to innovate and expand on the ground work laid by Valve; are given backlash for the mere attempt to make something that isn't "TF2-enough." Stop. This is gross, THIS isn't TF2. The community shouldn't be divided like Red and Blu, we are all on the same team just trying to hold on to this game and its world, and the creativity of the community and innovation on what already exists in the game is how that happens. Many games get a culture gathering behind them, but very very few get a culture divided into subcultures, like those of Mann Vs Machine, Traders, SFM Animators, and, ofc, KZbinrs who do challenge videos (insanity). Stop pretending like new content for this game is 'too much.' It's not. Is it sometimes/often buggy, broken, laggy, unpolished, ugly, and/or unbalanced? Yes, but so was a lot that Valve added and later fixed. There absolutely should be more quality control from developers of community content; they are the future of this game, and they should strive to have Valve-level standards, though we have to recognize that these are usually small teams of dedicated people who also have jobs and lives outside of TF2. Oh, and last thing. Probably the most important. If what we're getting is so bad, so "not TF2", then propose ideas that ARE in line with the style of the base game. Don't just say 'it's bad' and walk away, because that's not criticism, that's just whining. This game WILL die if the community lets it. New content brings in new blood and renews interest for past players who dropped TF2 for one reason or another. New content is GOOD. And this is the kind of good that you cannot have too much of. Either be a part of the community, or stop crying that the community doesn't do what you want. If you have concerns or criticisms, don't just say "bad", offer solutions or alternatives that would still help the community innovate with TF2, while still sticking to TF2's inherent art style. This video doesn't do anything but dishearten developers from creating new ideas within TF2, and that's what's wrong.

[@dkskcjfjswwwwwws413]

>you NEED shiny new keys to play tf2, base tf2 is STALE, you WILL agree with us, all content is GOOD content how do you think anyone has invested thousands of hours into the game, do you think they need 20 additional classes to stay engaged? or do they find the core gameplay of a few the most exciting

[@epiclamp44]

​@@dkskcjfjswwwwwws413 adding new gamemodes doesn't erase the "classic" aspects of TF2. Remember the changes they made to the direct hit, or added a limit to taunts, and removed badwater completely? Oh right, NONE of that happened, nothing "core" to tf2 actually changed. Some bad gamemodes, made by the community, came out for a game that hasn't had a team of developers with a vision work on the game in over 6 years.(and probably never will again) Grow up with your complaining, nothing important about TF2 has actually changed (except some people get to have fun on wacky gamemodes, feels pretty TF2 to me.) It's quite clear your anger is misguided and unproductive. Your puritism is utterly pointless. "If I complain about new shit I personally don't like and actively hate those that do, Valve will finally arrive like the Messiah and save tf2". -that's just stupid thinking

[@andydandy8525]

I entirely disagree. This is a bad take. I’m all in favor of seasonal game modes! Overwatch does it, Fortnite does it, CALL OF DUTY DOES IT, FUCKING CLUB PENGUIN DID IT. It keeps the game fresh from season to season! As for infection, the maps just suck. They are either op for humans or op for zombies. And yes some tweaking to the formula is called for. But we can’t give up on this game now that it’s starting to actually feel alive again! Smissmiss and Scream Fortress have both been nothing but barely touched, repackaged content for 8 years now. Now we’re getting whole new game modes and people are wanting them to go back to being lazy and repackaging content?? No way! Zombie infection is the best thing the tf2 dev team has done since Jungle Inferno and you will not ruin it for me.

[@SqrunkTrep]

I don't see what's wrong with the idea of vscript maps that heavily skew from the core of TF2. I mean they're just like any other community-made map, or community servers which run gimmicky modes like deathrun or that wario microgames inspired thing. The only difference on paper is that vscript allows for way more freedom with the custom modes and such and honestly I still think it's one of the best things to probably happen to the community interested in that sort of stuff. *HOWEVER* I do think Valve is just being lazy as they've been for the past five years with TF2. It's just an unfortunate truth about the state of the game. I don't really see what shitting on whacky game modes is suppose to achieve anything when in the end it should be Valve's responsibility on approving community-made gamemodes which should fit into the game. Also making sure that said community game modes actually work and aren't buggy messes.

[@ninjadanoite1560]

THANK YOU!!!!!

[@fauxparadox]

At this point with how long valve has been considered lazy on tf2's update schedule, I would say the dream of valve pushing official updates is long dead. I don't understand the "settle for less" mentality people like mönkey have because it's just leading to a dreadful stagnation. Is prop hunt stupid and wacky, and I'll only play it for like an hour? Yeah! Is that a bad thing and when it inevitably dies after a week does that mean tf2 is over? Fuck no, lol.

[@honkhonk8009]

Yes but they shoudl be temporary events that are unplayable after the event ends. Then its like the McRib. Its only liked because its temporary and has artificial demand. If it was permanent, people would despise it. Would people buy Unusuals if every player in the game had one??? Fuck no. Same mentality should be applied to events and maps. People want constraints, not freedom. If they want freedom, they queue for community servers, not for valve servers.

[@SqrunkTrep]

@@honkhonk8009 I mean, do we know as to whether or not zombie infection is staying all year round? Was this confirmed somewhere?

[@dkskcjfjswwwwwws413]

community stuff stays in community servers, thats literally the whole reason why valve made valve servers, quickplay and matchmaking

[@cardinalprism171]

getting fed up? my man we only got 2 new game modes and you are saying we don't NEED it. sure we don't need it but somethings are better than nothing. leaving the game with only crates will only leave bad stigma in the peoples mouths as they are gonna keep complaining more and more only for them to add modes and people complain again because they add stuff? whatever they do is gonna cause a bad backlash. you are complaining about the current and upcoming game modes while i wish for more of them to be add to the base tf2. with all due respect monkey, this video is not NEEDED. WE don't NEED this video.

[@wahhdy9508]

I'd agree if the gamemodes weren't holiday restricted that are only here temporarily. Sure yeah, some of the gamemodes & maps maybe needed some more time in the oven but honestly they're novel at best & always have been like every other scream fortress update for the last nearly ten years. You play for a bit, enjoy the new stuff for a couple of weeks, then go back to queueing for normal maps in the casual queue. The mappers & v-script guys put a lot of work into these things, too, so it just seems like nitpicking & punching down on the people just trying to make something with v-script and for something thats not even here 10 months out of the year. It's one thing when it comes to generic holiday cosmetics, it's another when it comes to map design & trying stuff with v-script. Idk just seems weird to call the content from dedicated mappers who still care about the game "slop". Not saying they're completely immune from criticism, but the least people could do is give it more than a single season rotation before they start shitting all over these guy's work.

[@gurra981]

"i dont like being negative" everything that isent the casual montage videos have been a negative video, i think you enjoy being negative to bring a problem to the limelight, it feels like you activly trying to find a problem that you can complain about or critique to make a video about it

[@simplysmiley4670]

VSH worked, it had practically years of playtesting on various different versions across the years on community servers, years to see what works and what doesn't and what can be improved. Plus it fits TF2's aesthetic and even story to an extent, not perfectly but still seems like there was some effort put into it. Even maps themselves fit TF2. Zombie Infection meanwhile, with some actual work put into it, would also fit in with halloween's vibes, if it wasn't just "hee hoo random zombie virus", hell this would be a great one for environmental story telling if maps had any real effort put into them, I could imagine a ritual gone wrong, maybe Merasmus learning how to be a threat to mercs instead of an annoyance on Ghost Fort. Most importantly though it needed way more time in the oven. It wasn't ready for this year, hell prolly wouldn't be ready for the next year either. But it did have potential before getting botched and rushed into casual. Prop Hunt however does _not_ fit the game, it should stay in community servers and same as ZI, get more work done on it instead of getting rushed and flooding the workshop with a sea of maps, also same as ZI. And also, the Krampus map, amazing, fantastic, still wouldn't play it because of what mode it would be based on but I definitely see it having effort put into it.

[@dkskcjfjswwwwwws413]

vsh doesnt work, play against me when im hale and youll see why it doesnt work

[@doodlenov]

Thats why nobody plays vsh lmao

[@AlanRuiz-gv5vi]

@@dkskcjfjswwwwwws413 Hey man, I recommend you make a copypasta that contains every point of why vsh sucks, because now with this kind of comments, you look childish, even if you are right

[@AlanRuiz-gv5vi]

@@dkskcjfjswwwwwws413 No hate tho

[@dkskcjfjswwwwwws413]

​@@AlanRuiz-gv5vinoones gonna read allat so im just gonna be a dick about it

[@Halucygeno]

You're completely right; nobody should ever have fun with wacky gamemodes. Whenever I'm trying to play on normal TF2 maps and I remember that community gamemodes exist, my nose starts bleeding and I begin violently convulsing, making the game unplayable. I just get so angry seeing this extra content; it LITERALLY erases the original game! Keep in mind: when Zombie Infection was added, Valve had to delete cp_granary, pl_badwater and koth_lakeside to make room for it. What sacrilege! Plus, I'm sure once we shame all these irresponsible mapmakers into leaving, Valve will be so moved by our puritanism, they'll come back and give us major updates again!

[@Whatever-pb2dy]

I honestly hope to see the krampus map for smissmas, it seems REALLY fun

[@Monkey_XDD]

I’ve seen a bit of that maps development and I’ve playtested it a bunch, and before Krampus was added; the map is a real treat. The praise it gets is 100% justified. AND YES I KNOW THERE ARE FURRIES THAT WANTS THAT KRAMPUSSY BUT IGNORE THEM.

[@ChronoSquare]

@@Monkey_XDD oh no, monkey no you've acknowledged the existence of the forbidden Now you've sowed the seeds of the thoughts 😔

[@SaintRedFox]

thats me btw 👅@@Monkey_XDD

[@thenekokatze1141]

If they keep adding more and more game modes we'll have a club penguin situation where the game can not handle it anymore and will have to be closed to not be a living corpse

[@Jasonwithadot]

Yeah tf2 will never close

[@thenekokatze1141]

@@Jasonwithadot source may be strong, but it has limits

[@jehooft8569]

Fyi: vs saxton hale is not balanced, it’s very skewed towards Hale but people are clueless and forget to use his abilities. I really like the gamemode, but I’ve never lost as Hale besides losing rps or suiciding for fun

[@sasasa1541]

Yeah I really don’t get why there’s no cooldown for brave jump, a bad Hale can become impossible to defeat so long as he spams space and crouch, it’s like fighting a flea with 20,000 health. The games are so much more fun when the Hale isn’t aware of that little trick

[@jehooft8569]

@@sasasa1541 for me the biggest problem is his stomp ability. The range on it (especially vertically) is way too big and the damage is very high too. It makes escapes almost impossible if hale focuses on you because he can just go to your general vicinity and kill you along with any nearby buildings and below half health teammates

[@dkskcjfjswwwwwws413]

when the average casual player doesnt even know what airstrafing means, its clear why the winrate just happens to be 50/50

[@jehooft8569]

@@dkskcjfjswwwwwws413 also remember that A LOT of players who are Hale intentionally lose by suiciding or losing to rps (or they're just friendly, idk why)

[@nickosman1556]

I mean... "just dont play it" is a valid answer.

[@crispy3556]

Shitty maps take up space for good maps.

[@tonycallme3667]

What kinda argument is this? Just because it is published early than it should means that it is inherently bad? Imo, they did it because it would be significantly easier to find bugs and tweaks when you have actual players playing it rather than testing them themselves. On the plus side, it's a halloween restricted update, how would it impact the game when it lasts only about less than a portion of the year? It brought a lot of people to the game including veterans, it genuinely is a pretty fun seasonal gamemode. What i think is wrong with your opinion is that you views it as a permanent gamemode, and also using Cyberpunk as an example. It's true that it is very buggy and drawn out the hypes when it released, but it improved and is enjoyable nowadays. For a gamemode using V-Script like Zombies, it would be pretty much the same albeit not that drastic since it does not affect the entire game, it sits by itself and whether you enjoy it or not, is entirely up to you. What i am saying is this is only the second instance of the Developer adding entirely brand new unique mode to the game and i honestly think they shouldn't get scoffed at just because they didn't do enough. Give them some credit, they pumped a meaty update only after a couple of months prior to the previous update and people just won't give them slack for it.

[@ninjadanoite1560]

THANK YOU!!!!!

[@ydav]

"we don't need new vscript gamemodes". tf2 fans are so funny, they ask for content, you give them content, and they bitch and moan about it.

[@gigaberos4239]

No one asked for game modes present already in community servers. People wanted actual updates that fixed bugs and add content made by Valve, be it maps or weapons. If you think an ok update is adding 10 maps to eventually have Halloween and Smissmas pass the number of maps vanilla tf2 already has, then I guess the game deserves its fate.

[@ydav]

@@gigaberos4239 if you think tf2 will recieve any new content from valve, I think you're incredibly gullible

[@dkskcjfjswwwwwws413]

@@ydav >w-well! its the best were gonna get so, like it!!! like it NOW!!! the cope is insane...

[@ydav]

@@dkskcjfjswwwwwws413 you're not on 4chan buddy

[@dkskcjfjswwwwwws413]

​@@ydavwhatever you say.

[@vtm06_vipes]

This video is a bit unfair. Before Meet your Match, people played these gamemodes constantly. All three, VSH, Zombies, and Prophunt started as community modes way before MyM. And were promptly killed like all Community servers because of MyM. I really don’t think you realize everything MyM took from us. Personally I’m all for new gamemodes, especially once classic staples now becoming official modes. Give me more Passtime. Give me more VSH. Give me more modes. However I do agree about them being rushed. They need actual development.

[@dennnnnn1352]

He didn't bring it up because it would go against his argument of keeping mini-games type gamemode out of the official playlist.

[@mmWz-fz8to]

I started playing before MyM (right in the middle of Gun Mettle) The community gamemodes were PACKED. Not even Staples like vsh, prop hunt, death run etc. But even the less known stuff like Smash Bros had at least 4 Servers that were decently full. Community servers are the backbone of tf2 imo. They used to be the only way to play before the Über update. Custom plugins were the norm, not exception. Its only MyM that the perspective has been skewed more towards tf2 being a more "serious" game. Let TF2 be silly and have wacky gamemodes

[@chuckmann7127]

So I've been playing this game since 2013 and I enjoyed Zombie Infection despite its flaws as a goofy, seasonal event to play a few times a year. Clearly I am a delusional Fortnite Zoomer who cares nothing for classic TF2 and its style and actively want to see it die. Dude I understand that things like 2Fort and Upward are what constitutes "core" TF2, but TF2 has had so many silly servers in its life span that to act like they have not had an impact on the TF2 experience is just blatantly wrong. You could argue that since those were community servers they don't count, but then what about MVM? That game mode is PvE tower defense with weapon upgrades but that gets a pass? Listen, there are so many damn problems with this game right now. Whether someone likes a niche seasonal gamemode is not one of them.

[@xanious3759]

ive been playing tf2 since 2009 and most of my playtime is community VSH, lmao

[@cheezkid2689]

Exactly. This video is genuinely embarrassing to watch, it's like he thinks that he's speaking for the entire community when he throws around "we". Claiming that wacky gamemodes "harm the longevity/charm of the game" is genuinely fucking idiotic. It doesn't make any sense at all. Who is going to quit the game because Valve added three or four maps for a bad gamemode that'll inevitably be forgotten? Who's gonna want to try the game then see that it has prophunt and not play it? The logic just doesn't hold.

[@dkskcjfjswwwwwws413]

​@@cheezkid2689counterpoint: whos gonna play these modes

[@dkskcjfjswwwwwws413]

​@@xanious3759whats your point, vsh isnt problematic

[@chuckmann7127]

IKR this is the epitome of "I'm a TF2 KZbinr so I speak for the entire community" syndrome. @@cheezkid2689

[@bigboi380]

Epic Audio Fail

[@PuncherOfWomenAndMinorities]

Gatekeeping is not always a bad thing Gatekeeping (W.R.T workshop) enforces higher standards for content added and ensures quality and that the people behind them know what they are doing. Gatekeeping new content like this ensures balance and makes sure people dont hop between the new-and-shiny. "jUsT DoNt quEuE fOr THeM" It spreads the playerbase thin, there are no people to queue with, at all *_MORE OFTEN THEN NOT_* (not always) the people who complain about gatekeeping are the reason the gates are guarded

[@fusrosandvich3738]

The problem tends to be when people are gatekeeping HOW to do something, instead of gatekeeping the product releasing. It's one thing to try and keep a bad product from getting out there, it's another when you tell a newer creator to screw off in response to them asking how to do certain things. Obvious example, being a new player to a game, asking how to do certain things, and just getting mocked for being new instead of receiving instructions.

[@PuncherOfWomenAndMinorities]

@@fusrosandvich3738 i think i didnt make it clear enough so let me explain: what I meant by "Gatekeeping" was rejecting low-quality or inappropriate items or submittions, not "you can't make or do anything". Prop hunt servers wanna run the VScript version? no problem. Add the VScript gamemode to casual? nope We need to maintain a standard of quality for casual maps unless we want another pl_Wuttvile. A standard of quality community servers inherintly dont have and dont need to worry about because they don't impact the base game and the experience of most players

[@tallystuff]

Dude, You could have just said "Bad Content should not be added to TF2." and 90% of the comment section would have agreed with you.

[@ms0342]

really bad presentation on this one, yes

[@RumpelTheFrenchSpy]

You and Zesty Jesus uploading videos about the same thing almost at the same time is such a bliss

[@luuc4sflp]

Except Zesty Jesus just complains

[@skr1ptz422]

@@Lucasberrin bro what? he was talking about the game, not gay rights lmao

[@AdmitThatYoureInsane]

huh???@@Lucasberrin

[@ravels700]

​@@Lucasberrinthats the dumbest argument ive ever seen

[@thedarter]

I know I'm gonna be crucified for this, but I really liked ZI and I'm actually looking forward to prop hunt. Yeah I could go to community servers for these modes, but community servers tend to be either sweatfests or incredibly toxic from my experience. There's a reason I still prefer casual over, say, Uncletopia, bots and all.

[@Monkey_XDD]

I would be crucified for saying this too, because I spent 4 days making this video: you have your right to have this opinion. You like zombie infection because you don’t wanna deal with tryhards? Sure I accept that. Been there too sometimes. I sometimes hop on VSH to relax and not play seriously, same with MvM sometimes.

[@timelesspoultry8849]

2fort is (usually) a great place to hang around and do silly shit with randoms. CTF also doesn't have a time limit, therefore allowing for unlimited ammounts of goofballery per singular game until some random lime cosmetic-wearing tryhard caps the intel 3 times back-to-back. But even then, people tend to vote 2Fort as the next map anyways, so the silly shenanigans typically just go on until they're tired of playing 2Fort and either play a different map on casual, hop on a community server or shut down tf2 and do something else.

[@thedarter]

@@timelesspoultry8849 yeah, I play my fair share of CtF where I exclusively play caber knight, but sometimes variety is nice too.

[@lore3127]

I honestly appreciate your effort monkey at trying to keep this game's artstyle in line but i think that is a lost cause... things change and so did the tf2 community, this arent the old fellas that we used to play with back in 2014, this arent the same workshop creators, actually some of them are. They all came after 2016 or 2017, which is not a bad thing, but they do not know how stuff used to be back then and how good it felt when we got proper updates, so maybe thats why they dont understand your anger. Maybe we are just being nostalgic i just miss when people used to play and create for fun not for pride or money.

[@oneshinyboi3083]

I do agree that the prophunt gamemode is not needed, and shouldn't really be in the core game. But this response seems to be rushed, made with misplaced anger, and is blowing things a bit out of proportion. Attacking people by insinuating that they are idiotic children for wanting the gamemode is, ironically, quite childish. And I get that some things will just not fit with tf2, but calling creators dumb for making those things isn't going to help. The constructive criticism and showing good use of vscript is good, but pared with the unnecessary aggressiveness makes it all seem more destructive than it is. It turns it into more of a "hating this thing" video than "discussing a problem" video. I just think everything here could have been worded better, and made with a lot less of a serious tone.

[@denisdubovik228]

accurate title: an internet microcelebrity doesnt like that valve adds content that WE voted for, and talks about how he wants the game be practically abondoned for 9 minutes 7 second

[@acidule445]

My brother in christ YOU play the gamemodes YOU want Nah genuinely this is the most crybaby video concerning TF2 i've seen in forever Complaining about seasonal gamemodes that are meant to be silly rather than extremely balanced, when they don't even fucking affect the rest of the game? There's no risk of it dividing the playerbase since most people barely play them just to get a change of pace from time to time, and it's not like they change anything about base game, there's no need to ""gatekeep" something that hasn't changed in the past 6 years. Also crying about the fact that we've not gotten any balance/content updates for the past 6 years The game is dead in Valve's eyes cmon now

[@ArcticHuskyy]

It honestly concerns that so many people in these comments agree with this guy.. damn purists, they want the game to die for real, to go back to a state where nothing interesting happens. TF2 is 16 years old, it should've been dead LONG ago if it wasn't for the community. These gamemodes are well made, are fun, and are at the very least bringing some people back to the game to play them. These people do not want the game to thrive

[@Yoshers.]

The cope on this game is just saddening, most of the players who come in the game now don't really care about getting better and making use of the already huge amount of content that the game has, it's kinda annoying that they are trying to make TF2 like Fortnite, an amalgamation of random crap just packaged together without cohesion because more = better, and ironically, did a hard reset yesterday because people wanted it to be more basic and have actual fundamentals to work and experiment with, sad honestly, like TF2 is already done, stop trying to reinvent the wheel and just improve on what's already been proved to work and be enjoyed, by this point It's really not necessary, and yes, workshop creators are to blame because they lack focus and awareness for what works for TF2 well knowing Valve really doesn't care about anything else but money by this point.

[@TCLG6x6]

the biggest issue with misc vscript maps is that you have to scroll to find them rendering them dead by default

[@DaRealDemobird]

Seeing VSH get so much time and effort put into it by Lizard and his team only to get dumped into Misc is Soul crushing.

[@TuMadre8000]

i think most reasonable people can agree that, while vscript prophunt is cool and will certainly be fun on community servers with a bit more work, it has no place in casual. fingers crossed that eric will exercise some reason this smissmas

[@TuMadre8000]

also, fingers crossed that eric will add the krampus map. that one's really cool and it (respectfully) puts sinthetic to shame

[@idkwho5339]

i feel like most of every game with community made content is going to have slop, its just inescapable. someones going to want to have their creations on display so they can either get money or become popular.

[@santiago681]

The problem is that valve rewards slop putting un low tier cosmetics on the crates. More as a twisted joke a think the tf2 years back had a workshop community that actually give a shit putting good shit.

[@kaleb4184]

"you control the buttons you press" just dont queue for those maps if you dont like them they are an entire different gamemode meaning you will NEVER be put in one if you dont queue for any the large amount of seasonal maps feels overwhelming, but they're limited time meaning 11 out of the 12 months a year, you cannot queue for them outside of community servers the incessant bitching and moaning from people who complain about optional gameplay functions that have ZERO effect on the way you already played the game is depressing if you hate the new maps, gamemodes, and cosmetics, then make better ones yourself.

[@puzzlepuddles6712]

fun fact did you know krampus is a wizard 101 reference? tf2 is famous for being the most easter-egg packed game on the market, with hundreds of them scattered across cosmetics, maps and weapons

[@ahilltodieons]

Maybe this is how Valve wants to kill TF2

[@Pyromaniax]

We still didnt get the community fixes from the summer update, even though they are already been on the workshop

[@Monkey_XDD]

That is true, however the fixes can only be accepted from the creators of the item that needs fixing. For example if there’s a bug on a map, the map maker must send the fix, not a random person. Same thing goes for hats, weapons, props etc.

[@Pyromaniax]

@@Monkey_XDD yeah but thre are stil a shitton of fixes for the base game itself, stuff thats been in the game since 2007 like the flamethrower hose being stuck in pyros thumb

[@danic_c]

While I agree that going forward, we should be more selective with what custom gamemodes make it into the game, at the same time, this "pour amber over everything and preserve the game for what it was" is a pretty bad mentality. That is effectively how you slowly kill the game. I get it. I'm a veteran of the game too, and I miss the Valve content updates that weren't so amateurish. But the odds of us getting one in the near future are slim to none. So, adding new community gamemodes is a perfectly fine way to add variety to the game and draw new and old players back into it. Granted, I think there should be more testing and community feedback so we're not just throwing shit at the wall to see what sticks. Ideally, any gamemode that gets added should be well-tested, balanced, and fun before getting put out so that anyone who joins the game because they enjoy it sticks around. Besides, if a new gamemode does flop, all of the normal gamemodes are still there available for everyone to play. I mean, Territorial Control servers have been rotting in the alternative gamemode category since 2007, and they haven't interfered with the main gamemodes that give the game their appeal.

[@Monkey_XDD]

You raise good points. I think if they devs delayed this game mode by a year, they could’ve made.. something? Yet again, when did the mercs suddenly turn into props? Never seen that in the lore. If they add this game mode, it wouldn’t kill the game, far from it. But it would take away a lot of its charm. Where you can just queue up for a random prop hunt game mode that isn’t even finished yet, because they started to work on this game mode AFTER zombie infection!

[@filthycasual6118]

Prop hunt in its current state is an underbaked stinker, and if _that's_ what gets released for this year's holiday update, it's going to set a nasty precedent. I think a big problem is that community content creators who are ambitious enough to pursue having their stuff get added to the game are also unconcerned about how it'll look/play. There's a lot of cool stuff that gets made because someone woke up and decided to make it, and that mindset is wholly different from a cynical, "I'll make something that'll get added to my favorite game," one. You _can_ do both, but it's easier to make something passable instead of something amazing. When you're only concerned about making content that gets slapped into one of the big three yearly content updates, it's easy to start cutting corners.

[@LeahThe3th]

@@Monkey_XDD See this is a major problem with this criticism, you're not arguing on the validity of the mode or its qualities or its enjoyment or how it affects those uninterested etc. etc. You're arguing that it discomforts you that something you don't personally like is added, and justifying it by claiming the development time matters for how good it is (how hard do you think it is to make a mode like Prop Hunt? you don't need to re-invent the wheel here) and throwing in that it loses a bit of charm purely because it doesn't fit in the with the lore. To get into the first issue, the development time is a worthless metric, TF2 is a finished game, it doesn't need to be re-invented to make a game building on-top of the fundamentals, setting up the game just disguising you as a prop will not be difficult and all you can really do to add to the mode is just add like, the ability to choose your prop and whatever buffs the last player standing gets, everything else can be easily whipped up in a day. With VSH the only reason the mode took so long in development was because it was being experimented with due to being a reinvention of the mode, in a mode that actually has space to be reinvented, there was time spent seeing how the objectives can be redesigned, how class weapon interactions can be tweaked, voice line addition, animations, and wiggle room to completely scrap something if it didn't work out (which did happen for some parts of it) Something like Prop Hunt or a Zombie mode doesn't have that leverage to take extra time with, because it's a basic concept and it doesn't really have much wiggle room to be reinvented without converting the gameplay too much. Secondly, the lore argument is incredibly weak, How does VSH work out in the lore? You're probably coming up with some weird headcanon reason, maybe Saxton did such and such or whatever, but turn around for a second and think, we can easily apply this for the other modes. Zombie Infection? Merasmus is doing some Halloween Shenanigans, and now due to his hatred of Soldier, He's risen his recently slain opponents from the grave, as mindless zombies with strange new abilities, with the zombies intending them to join their ranks! Prop Hunt? Just make it spy-tech shenanigans, We've all seen the set-up in a SFM before where a spy disguises as a Dispenser or something, it's not a stretch of the imagination that the goofy cardboard cutout masks and a puff of smoke couldn't hypothetically be justified to work for hiding as an object, the RED Spy is trying to sneak past the Blue base with a new trick, he's trying to hide in plain sight not as a member of their team, but as an object hiding around! So, instead of making arbitrary arguments that hold no weight for why something shouldn't be added, have a healthy discussion on how you think something needs to improve before you think it should be added, and don't deflect by saying any diversity in the modes doesn't belong because it's not ROBLOX, as that is just a complete and total excuse to entertaining any sort of discussion.

[@gravina6827]

@@Monkey_XDD I honestly don't understand this point of "taking away its charm", because it's not really doing any major changes to the game permanently that will affect the casual experience outside of the specific gamemode. Casual won't change if this gets added, it will only be something that you can play if you want during smissmass. But that's it. There isn't really any major alterations to the game to say this will take off the charm off TF2. If anything, I feel like the TF2 charm nowadays is the community support since jungle inferno. The radio silence from valve has caused talented creators to share their works in the workshop, and getting featured to the game in casual enhances the charm of a game that the community has refused to let die. The identity of team fortress 2 now is hat game supported by the playerbase instead of the main developer.

[@dkskcjfjswwwwwws413]

​@@LeahThe3thtf2 isnt gmod, end of story pls play another game if you want to experience another game, its that simple do you think visual novel fans want an fps built into the game?

[@gigachad4159]

Thank fuck tf2 doesn't celebrate april fools, otherwise we would definitely get X100 full crits randomizer into casual map rotation.

[@MrSpecialjonny]

luckily these gamemodes are optional to play and easy to ignore, so get over it and learn to ignore

[@StillTheBest1973]

Tbh, started playing TF2 In 2007, and sometimes changing the way you play the game ( with other gamemodes ) feels fresh I would have stopped playing tf2 a long time ago if all I was doing in that game was killing , fragging over and over While I agree literally every '' seasonal updates '' are trash , thanks to shitty cosmetics, the gamemodes are fine, they're just temporary anyway. It's just a 'event gamemode' like so many other games are doing

[@Dimitri9511]

Its still on the gamefiles and its just bloat just liked every Community Halloween map

[@apollyonTF]

as a oldhead 2007 player myself, i agree with this. mixing up how you play TF2 is what the original appeal was, and still can be, for so many people, minus the dedicated part of the community who take it seriously (competitive and such.) while the game is stagnating, some find simple enjoyment through routine of playing the game "how it's meant to be played" and won't really venture out of that, leading to stagnation and boredom. there's a whole sourcemod scene that most TF2 players still don't know about, and they have made some of the most interesting concepts out of old TF2 source code. It's been a way for me to still enjoy TF2 in a way, without having to deal with the live game's mainstay issues.

[@bowlofsalad8777]

Using Vscript they could've just re-release arena game mode? That would be..useful?

[@lollermann]

"STOP HAVING FUN ON HALLOWEEN" This guy

[@captain1238]

The tf2 community has been without an update for so long they can't comprehend constant updates anymore

[@stacksofslaps7442]

As an avid mannpower player, i feel attacked

[@pinkmail6841]

Same :(

[@maxchrome_]

Yes, officer, these people☝

[@cottoneyejoe8285]

The mannpower experience: Wait to queue Wait to queue Wait to queue

[@say_sae_right_now]

Genuinely, Mannpower can be really fun, you juat have to wait for a lobby.

[@dkskcjfjswwwwwws413]

mannpower haters always cite the op powerups as being the downfall of the mode they have yet to realize how ungodly broken and unfun to fight the grappling hook is

[@KingOfNotHere]

I'll summarize what I said on ZestyJesus's video, (which coincidentally was posted around the same time as this one) V-Script gamemodes peaked with VSH, and instead of getting Zombie Fortress (and potentially Prop Hunt at this point), we should've gotten more VSH maps. A lot of the popularity of VSH was hype, but by God, it deserves more than that. VSH not only fits the theme of TF2, but is FUN AND BALANCED. Instead of getting completely new crap which stuffs up this great game, we need to get more of what we already have, VSH included.

[@bugpocket]

I dont agree with you, this feels incredibly negative and tunnelvisionny. This will create a stigma toward other potential developments for gamemodes and cause a lot of problems in the community towards workshoppers. The zombie gamemode was rushed and bad but you're causing a lot more than just that by talking about it.

[@LukeRkam]

I actually really liked the zombie gamemode, the zombies being overpowered was much much better compared to how strong the humans used to be

[@Dizeased]

I would love an mvm update even if it just overhauls the upgrades and fixes the broken upgrades.

[@DaRealDemobird]

I don’t think this will happen, When making MvM. Valve Had to change so much about the code it was a huge pain for the devs, artists and Modelists. Believe me I would love a world where all the Upgrades work. New MvM maps and robots were added. But MvM is a super complicated issue. Not only because of how it was made but also because of how shit the source engines code is. We did have some changes(Uber bots don’t have knockback when leaving the spawn to prevent soft locking). But that’s the bare minimum. Poor Eric is on his own juggling two games in a sense which should be done by a team of 12-20 people.

[@htyv2605]

Zero updates on 7 year, monke: Calm 3 updates on a year, monke: AAAAAAHGGG STOP!!!

[@tsx-mx4sh]

Quality matters

[@TheBadlandsSandvich]

This is copy paste from another video, but I still think the points I make still stands. I agree with most of the video. Zombie Infection and Prop Hunt does not belong in TF2 in any OFFICAL capacity. But that's just it, in OFFICAL capacity. But saying these shouldn't have been made and any map/mod that does not fit in TF2 has no right on the workshop? No, I beg to differ. I don't have a problem with people making new game modes with V-Script, remaking other games in TF2 with V-Script, or even making maps that don't fit with TF2. It's how people see what can be done, how people learn to use V-Script, how people come up with new original game modes that actually fit the game, even come up with entirely new games, or even just to have fun and see what they can make! Antichamber, a slow puzzle and exploration game spawned from a mod of Unreal Tournament, a fast FPS. A slow puzzle game CLEARLY doesn't fit in a fast FPS game, but by twisting the game into something it's not just to see if they could; we got an excellent puzzle game. The Stanley Parable is a walking simulator that was originally a mod for Half-Life, another FPS. A walking simulator CLEARLY doesn't fit in an FPS game, but again, by twisting the game into something it's not, we got one of the funniest games of the 2010s. So many games spawn from mods taking existing games and twisting them into something it's not. Yes, TF2 is not Zombie Infection or Prop Hunt, but pointing at a map that implements it and saying it should never have been made feels wrong and short-sighted. If that mindset were taken to every mod, many groundbreaking games would have NEVER been made. For all we know, discoveries made while developing this, or one of the people learning V-Script to make this, could lead to a fun and fitting map or an entirely new and exciting game. It only becomes a problem when this stuff is officially implemented into the game. THAT I agree wholeheartedly and never want. But to condemn ALL V-Script mods and maps that don't fit 100% in TF2 sounds wrong and stifles creativity, experimentation, and learning opportunities.

[@pikachufrankie]

Uniform and consistent artstyle? Fun and replayable game modes? Character outlines? What are those? You sure you’re not making these things up? I’m tired of this game being turned into the Fortnite of Valve. Stop da slop.

[@missingtextureman101]

I disagree with your point. Vs Saxton Hale is the only reason I actually wanted to play Team Fortress 2 again after a year or two of not playing it... Wow... It's almost like new content actually attracts people into playing the game again! I didn't play the zombie gamemode, but it fits in with TF2 a bit more. The only gamemode that I really agree shouldn't be added is prop hunt. And there is no guarantee Valve will add it either just because it's being worked on. Your whole video seems very pretentious. You are acting like new gamemodes are somehow breaking the old gamemodes. They aren't. If you don't like Vs Saxton Hale don't queue for it, just like how if you don't like any other gamemode, don't queue for it. EDIT: Just reached that part of the video where you try to make a "counter" against that very point. But your counter is just whining like a child going "WAHHHHH I DONT LIKE NEW GAMEMODES!!" Your complaints about them being buggy on initial release is valid, I'll give you credit for that, but the fact Valve is still trying to update this game at all is incredible. The only valid point in this video that I agree with is that prop hunt shouldn't be added due to it completely going against the general nature of Team Fortress 2. The Zombie and Saxton Hale gamemodes fit a lot more then you give them credit for.

[@_mark342_]

if valve were to make gmod free then this vscript hell might end

[@DaRealDemobird]

Valve doesn’t own Gmod, Gmod is owned by Facepunch, the guys who made RUST. Valve just allows them to use the source engine for the game.

[@_mark342_]

ok thanks for the info@@DaRealDemobird

[@ChizuruMinamoto]

In my opinion, the main reason why people don't go to community servers, and secondary gamemodes for the most part, is because kids don't know how to click on buttons or read. PLR is barely played aside from Hightower, but that mostly is because it is set as a secondary gamemode in the casual's game list. Most players don't even bother to scroll down there to enable them, they just click on the big gamemode checkmark and look for a game. Hightower is the exception because it is a meme map for trolldiers, on the same account as 2fort being a meme map for friendlies. Prior to the Meet Your Match update, you still had plenty of community servers running. Most of them died after that, because people somehow can't find the big "community" button (just like they can't find the mute button since the game came out in fact). I don't mind myself because I mostly played on Valve's official servers when I wanted the regular TF2 experience, so it didn't change much for me personally. But it is the main reason why these servers are dead, with most community servers still being up being mostly just 24/7 2fort. I don't think the main issue is Valve adding community gamemodes, it is more that most people wont bother touching them because they don't even see these modes exist. Yes the gamemode "isn't TF2" but that's why there is a secondary gamemode tab. The sad thing, again, is just that people don't see these to begin with. Many people advocate for Arena to be re-added in the casual launcher, and I would be okay with it being there myself. But it will undoubtedly be dropped in that secondary gamemode bucket, and most players wont even bother, already that they'll cry because "OMG I HAVE TO WAIT FOR THE ROUND TO END", which is already what some people cry about games like Counter Strike or Rainbow Six Siege, they just wont scroll down to that category. I am not saying that the gamemodes are necessarily good (Pass Time is just not fun without any form of team cooperation which will never happen, and Mannpower is kinda fun, but essentially never ends), but even if the gamemode is good like Saxton Hale is... People still wont see them because of the secondary gamemode tab that nobody clicks on. Just like the community server button, or to some extent the MvM button (Mann Up excluded).

[@Q_i_e_]

TF2tubers will write out an entire essay on why (what is essentially) a community-made update is shit but also complain when they don't receive an update promised from 7 years ago Also "preserving the game the way it is" is entirely subjective since a good chunk of people that still play tf2 started playing after the meet your match update (which changed things a *lot* with what "normal tf2" was defined as)

[@Lucasberrin]

"Entirely subjective"? Why should that be subjective? The game was born to be timeless for its own unique style. What's subjective about that? Also, more people than you think want MORE GOOD updates (like Summer 2023), not trash updates like this one. That's why he complains, because he wants QUALITY over quantity.

[@dooms040]

I mean if we still updates but they are just full of unfun/broken maps (which are the main reason to play) then there's really no point in playing it, gotta love when you are not allowed to say something negative about the community updates lol. and the "preserving the game the way it is" is prob refering to keep the main gameplay, something VSH and zombie infection are not.

[@carotte9581]

Play Roblox, just like Mönkey suggested, instead of being a tumor and adding irrelevant shit to the game that will only be appealed less than 1% of the total player base.

[@xanious3759]

@@Lucasberrin it *is* subjective considering the casual play experience of TF2 is in no way the same it was in like, 2009 in casual you can't freely switch teams or spectate, no team scramble, community servers running mostly vanilla gameplay aren't as prevalent, etc.

[@Lucasberrin]

@@xanious3759 It may have changed, but the core is still there, and these modes want to destroy it.

[@slop4308]

if someone wants to play community game modes, thrn play them in the COMMUNITY SERVER BROWSER just because YOU want something, doesnt mean everyone has to fucking deal with it, its literally available to you, adding it to the main game doesnt do shit

[@tosdy8480]

in defence of zombie infection it being tilted in the zombies favour is way more fun than a 50/50

[@thomas044]

until they get closer to you and your fps starts to drop because of that godamn green smoker particle

[@aulosrazr_7285]

I think TF2 should do a hard reset with Valve porting TF2 into source 2 like cs2 (once cs2 is fine tuned to perfection)

[@RAKESH-xw9xm]

nooooo , nope , source 2 is just shiny flashy trash !! 😂 , tf2 has its own beautiful cartoony artstyle that HAS to be preserved !! 😊

[@Starlit_Juno]

@@RAKESH-xw9xm You can keep the artstyle and have it ported to source 2, stop talking about things you have 0 knowledge on.

[@DaRealDemobird]

@@RAKESH-xw9xmthat “shiny flash trash” also allows for the code to be better and less clunky, which may motivate the developers to keep working.

[@pedroveras12]

Imagine being the people working hard on the mod, trying to keep the game fresh and having it called "slop". TF2 players are so entitled and still wonder why Valve doesn't give a shit about this game anymore.

[@OldmanIm]

The thing about Zombie, as shit as it is, still had a plan through design of what TF2 is. Prop Hunt can't bend around what TF2 is and people don't realize it because they want to see TF2 become the next wild card insano haha Robux2 game. Thank God vscript stages like the new Krampus stage are there to fill my heart of missing bosses.

[@Dark44Mod]

I agree with Monkey, but I feel simply gutting the community-made gamemodes from TF2 would cause a bit too much outrage and sometimes the gamemodes can be fun (sometimes); so perhaps Valve could compromise and put the alternative gamemodes (PassTime, Mannpower, VSH, ZE, etc.) into a weekly spotlight where only one is available per week and the list gets randomized with every cycle.

[@naomeencheosaco8595]

Would encourage people to tune in frequently, and you could always have a community map to hos the gamemode you want 24/7

[@lonelyshpee7873]

No.

[@brokendoop]

Outrage for the 3 people who play them. Honestly who cares if some morons get mad, just play the modes on community servers, almost no one is playing them officially anyway.

[@naomeencheosaco8595]

@@brokendoop im one of the morons, and i dont want to join in some community server with 300 ping

[@ChronoSquare]

unfortunately, I don't think the one dev has enough time to dedicate to cooking up something like this

[@OneHundredFiftyTwo]

Funny how everyone was pissed with there just being loot boxes and new maps and now hate the fact that “new” things get added

[@AChristianGamer19]

So it's wrong for indie devs to experiment in a less closed way with Vscript in TF2, because Valve won't update TF2.... How is this the Vscript Devs's Fualt, how does any of this change anything about the base game, and how does simply ignoring new content hurt anyone? If you're mad at Valve for not updating the game like they used to, then don't take your frustrations out on inexperienced Vscript Devs, who less than 2 years ago got thier hands on Vscript, who don't owe you, Valve, or this community anything, and who are working on all of this FOR FREE!

[@waluigiisthebest2802]

Because Valve refuses to listen, so V script devs are the next best thing, apparently.

[@dkskcjfjswwwwwws413]

if they dont owe me nothing why they want their stuff in the game

[@AChristianGamer19]

@@dkskcjfjswwwwwws413 Wouldn't you also want to see your work in a game you cared a lot about?

[@quinnmcmurtrie8022]

If VScript can enchance gameplay on a map-to-map basis, then can it implement weapon stats changes exclusive to a VScript map? Because if I was ballsy enough to do this, I will instantly coding in nerfs for the Kunai.

[@Damonj17]

I've been playing TF2 since Orange Box on the 360. I have over 4000 hours on Steam. I like Saxton Hale and Zombie Infection. I think they're fun. I enjoy the frantic tug of war of trying to scramble to build a level 3 while fending off hordes of Zombies. I like schmanoeuvring around Saxton, barely staying out of his range while still wailing damage on him. I think the new gamemodes and maps are interesting. Don't like the new gamemodes? That's fine. Don't play 'em. I don't like most of the KOTH maps in the game, for various reasons. So I don't play on them. Let people experiment and make new gamemodes. Valve has basically abandoned this game, but will never admit that because people buy Crates, so its up to the community to make new gamemodes. In addition, I don't think all cosmetics and maps are made for profit. Sure, that's part of it, everyone does everything in this world for money, but also if I had the ability to have something I made be put in this game I love so much? I would.

[@dkskcjfjswwwwwws413]

you will return to payload where you belong in 1 week

[@The_D_ray]

"You're delusional; go back to Roblox, where you came from". I'm genuinely envious as I never came up with such insult.

[@_-Huligan-_]

I think full-on new game modes are fine, but I feel like there's so many obvious options for Vscript gamemodes that are being skipped over in favor of decade old wacky shit. If you are gonna make something new, make it in line with the existing game. Something like the old VIP mode or some kind of KotH/CtF hybrid with 1 flag and a capture point that dynamically moves around the map (à la Apprehension, an old mod for Unreal Tournament). Something that fits with TF2's existing mechanics and gameplay loops, not just another regurgitated community server gamemode with unnecessary "special abilities" and confusing balance changes slapped on. That, and spend more than a quarter of a year developing them and working out the kinks.

[@xanious3759]

damn, wasn't expecting ut99 apprehension of all things to get brought up lmao speaking of UT gamemodes, it actually bugs me they never touched up passtime, since its for the most part just a copypaste of bombing run, and bombing run is actually really fun and a better fit for TF2 than "stock" CTF (i say stock in quotes because TF2's flag return rules are stupid and my main problem with the gamemode in TF2 aside from no time limit lol)

[@primarchvulkan4013]

Speaking of UT gamemodes brought in TF2, would be nice to see an Attack/Defence map for TF2, inspired by the Assault gamemode. BLU team needs to capture objective A, then destroy objective B, and then simply reach an objective C, while the RED tries to stop them

[@xanious3759]

@@primarchvulkan4013 the funny thing is, attack/defend is just assault with better communication, as in, "what the fuck am i doing" you could actually port most assault levels to TF2 just fine lol

[@primarchvulkan4013]

@@xanious3759 would love to see a remake of UT2004 assault map, where you need to steal rockets from a train

[@xanious3759]

@@primarchvulkan4013 what's funny is ctf-convoy exists lmao

[@gp-1542]

We were worried about valve screwing over v-script but forgot to check the people using it