[TF2] Stop The Slop Part 2 (Gun Game)

[@Monkey_XDD]

Here, play the better version: openfortress.fun/ Aar's VOD of Gun Game in action: kzbin.info/www/bejne/q37df4yiacmfaK8&ab_channel=A%282%29r Shounic's video on TF2's design: kzbin.info/www/bejne/sKapmHuqd9Gglck&ab_channel=shounic Open Fortress' Gameplay Video: kzbin.info/www/bejne/bZ6WkKqKi9J-nJY&ab_channel=OpenFortress Another thing to mention, you cannot make a custom UI with V-script, and Valve has already said no to the custom UI question before. However that doesn't stop the Gun Game devs to photoshop a hud into the workshop promotional art to make you believe that it's gonna be a part of the final product, THEY don't even know if that's gonna get implemented, it's up to Valve. So false advertising I say.

[@domaws]

all of the youtube links are timed

[@samm_yanders]

Double edge sword using Aars footage

[@Popcorn_Pillow]

the hell happened to your accent. Swear it was so much heavier like 6 months ago.

[@GarethJason]

@@Popcorn_Pillow Hanging around Americans more will do that to you.

[@Monkey_XDD]

@@domaws Yeah KZbin is dumb.

[@dancintilldeath]

Players will dump huge amounts of cash for some hat that you can't even see ingame, but they will hesitate to actually buy another game.

[@mockery_finn]

THIS

[@Trooffe]

you do not even buy it. its free!

[@Boomrainbownuke9608]

@@Trooffe ---------------> the point ---> you (0_0)

[@chanceamirian6522]

Define “can’t see ingame” with all due respect you literally join servers with the so called hat😭

[@roman108]

@@chanceamirian6522 he means you don’t see your hat unless you taunt (third person) or go to the loadout menu screen.

[@apurpledragon]

I'll repeat what I said on Zesty's 2nd channel, I think Vscript can be used to make some great community game modes but if it HAS to be in TF2 it NEEDS to follow what TF2 was originally designed for. Take Stop That Tank for example, all it is is Payload but with a unique MvM twist. The objective is still the same, but now the BLU team are robots, the Payload is now a tank that moves by itself and even if the tank is destroyed the robots still have a chance to take a bomb and win the game with a giant robot spawning in from a randomly selected player. Even if the giant bot is destroyed the bomb can still be picked up by the regular robots. Stop That Tank has the chance to be a very fun mode that if done right can potentially be added into the official casual que, but it's slept on because people wanna use Vscript to make TF2 more like gmod.

[@chippedtoothentertainment]

I actually miss that gamemode, RIP all the community servers that ran it.

[@quek04]

stop that tank was my favorite gamemode/server years ago, RIP

[@kooz8279]

I remember STT. I didn't play during its hayday, only sparsely populated servers at the time. I would adore a comeback. You could totally have STT be some continuation of the sorta-story blurb we got in Versus Saxton Hale. Saxton Hale is defeated, and gets kicked out by Gray Mann and the Mercenaries he hired. Who he then fires since they served thier purpose. He then sets his robot army on the old decrepit (mostly payload) bases of RED. Where there is (allegedly) more Australium to be scavenged. The Mercenaries are then hired again to protect these bases, or to be a distraction for Gray while the Administrator takes the Austrailium for herself. THERE IS INCREDIBLE POTENTIAL HERE GUYS COME ON!!!

[@apurpledragon]

@@kooz8279 I was also thinking about not just getting the VA who did Gray Mann in the Saxton Hale mode to be the one who does lines for exclusivly the robot side, but also getting the VA for the Administerator for the human side. It would be super cool! And not only that but the spawn point for the robots before the round starts every time would be a carrier tank where RED can see it actually moving into position for the robots.

[@CommanderLex]

Man I remember when I was constantly checking the STT steam group to see if they made new balance changes to mode or added a new giant robot. STT was so much fun to play and I'm still not over the fact that it's currently a dead gamemode.

[@МаксимНаумов-э7т]

i haven't paid taxes since 2015

[@thing.]

watch anomaly's passport forging tutorials and get outta there

[@Beanibirb]

​@@thing.I thought you were joking but holy shit

[@c0smic959]

same

[@theodore-by9nl]

OMG! TAX Evasion: the new tf2 V-script game-mode!!!!

[@3ndm3]

Amateur. I havent been paying taxes ever since i was born!

[@hatcrab4923]

Can't wait to play TF2 with it's 60GB of slop content

[@ranimdude]

Only to play badwater again

[@angiovanni7356]

@@ranimdude and trying to get well on ctf that lasts more than 2 rounds

[@Monkey_XDD]

We’re getting near that. TF2 right now is 26 Gb.

[@MrFi-es2ie]

​@@Monkey_XDD After 5 months of playing my TF2 folder gets to ~50 Gb, idk where all the i formation is comming but after delleting the while folder and reinstalling TF2 its vack to 26 Gb. You might want to check on your folder, right click and properties.

[@hatcrab4923]

​@@MrFi-es2ieMoral of the story: disable steam cloud for tf2 lol

[@blazinglightgt8673]

Missed when tf2 was only like 9 to 12 GB at most. But now it's what? 27 GB.... fuck me bro...

[@nicthemasterclown1974]

just get a multi TB hard drive.

[@konah4547]

@@nicthemasterclown1974 Easier said than done.

[@creeperizak8971]

I get it but hard drives are so big nowadays, if you can replace your old one TF2s current size will be a drop in the bucket. That's not really a good excuse to just let the file size bloat up though.

[@pphrph]

@@nicthemasterclown1974 long as you're paying

[@thecrimsonviscount5689]

​@@nicthemasterclown1974 "If you're homeless... Just buy *ahouse"* assa

[@UsedRags]

It'd be cool to see v-script used for more MvM stuff tbh. I've been dying for more MvM stuff and it'd be cool for valve to shine a spotlight on it.

[@starmaker75]

Seriously community mvm is quite fun for the most part.

[@vaan_]

potato mvm tours are magical, the tour they did after vscript was added had so much fun stuff on every mission

[@radial8955]

@vaan_ iirc that tour actually had nothing to do with vscript. The vast majority of mvm content only started getting moved to vscript when the 64bit update started coming up. The majority of custom mvm content instead ran on a server mod.

[@efuctz]

Can't wait until they eventually officially add TF2Ware into the game! 🔥🔥

[@theabsolutetrashman3708]

Fellas, always remember: just because you put a lot of time and effort into something, that won't necessarily turn the final product into being good. The road to hell is paved with good intentions after all

[@samtinkle9076]

And sometimes your magnum opus will turn out to be something you just decided to shit out in one day. Ain't art weird?

[@acanadianderg4035]

@@samtinkle9076I totally get that, my account is proof of that

[@PuncherOfWomenAndMinorities]

​@@samtinkle9076art is weird, not an out-of-place underdeveloped shit alt gamemode in a very carefully balanced game keep your good, but entirely irrelevant and disproven opinions to yourself🥰

[@proto_shane5059]

The bots couldnt kill the game so the workshoppers wil

[@roman108]

Both of them playing the challenge of most insufferable annoying pests to TF2.

[@yosefsantoni599]

You can thank Fortnite for introducing the crowd of people who just want their games filled to the brim with shit instead of making something cohesive.

[@DrPenz]

as much. as I like workshop and gmod, I hate how much the main lobby menu is filled uefn stuff. like lemme play thr original game

[@hipposeducer28]

The triple A gaming companies have really pushed forward into this direction as a whole, with other examples like call of duty and valorant also heavily leaning into this, just to make players buy more content without any regard toward the actual game itself.

[@CarCorSnoAllen]

You can thank roblox for raising kids that can’t play more than one game type in one product, actually

[@bassbusterx]

Fortnite is actually having a similar problem right now lmao

[@Iteration456-8_codename_goblin]

Open fortress is actually a goated mod on its own But it does not belong in Team Fortress 2, it strips away everything but the art style and at that point just play open fortress

[@BoiledTable]

That’s what confuses me so much about this whole thing, all this effort to just not play a free mod which already exists and is already really good.

[@ttpbroadcastingcompany.4460]

How does it take away from TF2?

[@Iteration456-8_codename_goblin]

@@ttpbroadcastingcompany.4460 1. Teams 2. Communal Objectives (the point) 3. THE GOD DAMN MERCENARIES 4. The “free victory dopamine” when a bad player is put in a team where they feel like they are contributing 5. Fortress (but that’s just the nature of deathmatch and lacking teams) To name the main items that are outright erased from this gamemode

[@ttpbroadcastingcompany.4460]

@@Iteration456-8_codename_goblin 1. Teams don't matter. Auto-Balance, scrambles, etc have existed for years. A FFA mode wouldn't change much. 2: People have been clamoring for a DM or TDM gamemode for a while now. Perhaps Gun-Game can be that? 3: Open Fortress Mercenary has a lot of character all on his own, and the original mercs could also be made their own thing. 4: Oh no, people actually have to learn how to get good at a gamemode? What will we ever do? 5: Not even a proper argument.

[@evdestroy5304]

​@ttpbroadcastingcompany.4460 You lost me at "teams don't matter," game is literally called Team Fortress 2. If you're bad at working with your team, that's on you and not the game.

[@marty01018]

workshop creators rlly changed team fortress 2 into fortress 2

[@evdestroy5304]

There's no Fortress to be defended, so really, it's just 2.

[@galanga21890]

@@evdestroy5304 but both teams are gone, so does the 2 even fit anymore?

[@evdestroy5304]

@@galanga21890 The only reason the 2 is there is because it's a sequel, so yes it still belongs

[@Travisgaminglol]

can't wait for Gungame to be added, have tons of videos the first month and then die the second and the third month have videos about why it died

[@OfficialMisterBoo]

I can't wait for next summer when someone makes an inferior copy of TF2C's VIP and/or Deathmatch game modes.

[@starmaker75]

Honestly having a tf2 VIP game mode would be better and fitting then gun-game. Still wished we have stop that tank

[@apurpledragon]

Difference is at least VIP still retains what makes TF2 unique and fun.

[@sabo1789]

At least I won't have to play TF2C and suffer through their (Somehow) worse balance than what live TF2 has

[@maximilianklinger2712]

@@sabo1789?

[@DegmoGrandfather]

Gun game could be fun. Not for official game mode though.

[@BoiledTable]

It is fun, it’s called Open Fortress go play it

[@Des_fa]

It's strange, if this gamemode will be in game (I hope not), this just will select a piece of the players from Open fortress. Open fortress team shoots themself in the self 🤨

[@FrostyTheNightmare]

Roblox kids when they want to add their favorite game into an official game mode in a game that’s out of their league

[@otmanbudunt6992]

Hop onto typical colors 2 Babies 🤑🤑🤑🤑🤑🤑🤑🤑🤑😢😢😢😢

[@kieranocity]

Hey, don't point fingers at Roblox at this issue. Got nothing to do with this

[@domaws]

instantly gonna be made fun on twitter for criticising workslop for making sloppy videos (backwards thinking)

[@mep867]

Did i ever tell you what the definition of insanity is?

[@Geebanger0]

Insanity… is doing the exact, same fucking thing, over and over again, expecting shit to change

[@Mr_lugi]

My head hurts thinking that people will literally defend this painfully obvious cash grab like what are you gonna get from doing that other than more waste of memory space 😭

[@hipposeducer28]

Maybe 10 minutes of entertainment and a pat on the back from the circle-jerking workshop sphere for supporting the mode.

[@Modeus.]

PASS-Time was the OG experiment of putting mini-game modes in TF2, and look how that turned out.

[@fadedgames1]

Mannpower was the first "whole different game" inside tf2, and even then, it still had the classic tf2 element of team ctf. Despite that, not a lot of people play Mannpower.

[@ttpbroadcastingcompany.4460]

That's because it's not Payload and the average TF2 player can't wrap their head around a different gamemode.

[@Monkey_XDD]

@@ttpbroadcastingcompany.4460 I wish people had some variety in their map pool, but as it stands, it’s Badwater and Upward 24/7. However there is nothing bad with the gamemodes we have, I wish we got more player destruction maps into the game and made into a category.

[@ttpbroadcastingcompany.4460]

@@Monkey_XDD Ok, but a lot of the gamemodes that we have don't get as much playtime due to a variety of factors, such as being put all the way down in the Alternative Gamemodes section. Most new players don't even know that PD exists or care to play it. Payload is easy for them. It's something a bunch of other shooters have copied. I'd argue that Gungame, at worst, would just be another dead game-mode clogging the veins of Alternative Gamemodes, alongside the likes of: Territorial Control. Medieval Mode. Payload Race. Pass Time Mannpower. VSH. And more. Honestly, there's no harm in adding it. Downloading it doesn't mean you have to play it. Most people will probably play it, get bored, and move back to their usual. That, or maybe it gets the community's attention. Maybe it becomes something people actually enjoy playing and doing more and more. As it stands, Valve ultimately have the final say, so anything we do amounts to sweet F-A compared to them. If it gets added, great. If not, oh well.

[@TCLG6x6]

I love arena

[@JJazzyWob]

I agree with mogey, at this point tf2 feels more like of a unfinished gun game or anything different other than tf2 it self.

[@FunnyMantf2353]

What this game needs is more pirates

[@domaws]

pirate infection featuring only 1 class: the demoman

[@Beanibirb]

That might actually be fun

[@Sgt_Ham]

THERE BE TREASURE

[@thecrimsonviscount5689]

​@@domawsalcoholism epidemic

[@pallah0077]

Balloon race 😭

[@uprank]

i like super mario

[@zeal2814]

😁👍

[@setmain5442]

I’m happy for you

[@zodd5260]

Mario told me he loves you too

[@twitchyeyess]

I like super luigi

[@Redmont_]

in real life?

[@funnyname8004]

Well, it makes sense that the open fortress devs seek to collaborate with tf2 to increase their mod's popularity since open fortress is also quite dead, with about an average of 8 dedicated players on one single server per day (at least that's what I saw the last time I played open fortress)

[@bluedogz1624]

Open Fortress' devs are notoriously lazy, I know a guy who was banished from the dev team for suggesting that they weren't doing enough work, Retro Mode will never be finished

[@PatchyMcSlashy]

Monkey never fails to play a video game

[@Byrd873]

I completely agree with everything said in this video, but at 11:00, I don't think the VScript zombie survival is equivalent to Left 4 Dead. This can be found in another gamemode in GMod, literally named zombie survival. Which is far better than the jank we got in Scream Fortress. Would I *like* to see custom game modes? Absolutely, I'm not denying that. Deathrun, dodgeball. super zombie survival and smash fortress (Smash Brothers but TF2) are all fun gamemodes, but as you said, they're not modes meant for TF2, and the game's better without them being part of Casual and staying on community servers. Though, I do wonder where medieval mode fits in all of this...

[@leverposteifantomet]

I can live with VSH and even zombie infection, since it's locked behind a holiday restriction anyway, but the bloat is getting to be a little problematic. We already get like 15 christmas/halloween maps a year. Like Zesty Jesus said, I'd much rather have one or two really well made maps, than 7 mid maps

[@Monkey_XDD]

Back in the day when we got actual major updates, we used to get 2-4 maps. Earlier we got like 1-2, it sometimes varies. But nowadays, yes, we got 12 during scream fortress last year.

[@feefre]

Dont you love when someone sees the most dead gamemode in the community servers tab and thinks "this would make a good vscript gamemode"?

[@Or_ange]

I really hope people actually watch this to the end where you suggest uploading maps/mods to gamebanana for people to download and use on their own. In the past I LOVED playing the TF2 dodgeball game mode and sometimes I'll still hop onto a community server and play with the like 3 other people that might be playing at the time. People can and should experiment and mod the hell out of the game! That's how you learn and improve and maybe someday you can take what you've learned and make your own game! or a game mode that's actually fun and a good addition to the game! (or at least a fun community server game mode/map) Shame the people trying to make a quick buck off the game ruin that for everyone. (I also just miss when community servers were more popular...)

[@bluedogz1624]

7:47 They're dead because Casual killed most community servers. I genuinely believe more people would care about these side modes if valve didn't shove casual in your face so hard. Also, the jailbreak gamemode still lives because people still make KZbin content about it. It's more of an awareness thing.

[@delila5034]

In VSH's defense, I don't believe the low play count is because people don't like that mode, it's because nobody plays any of the modes under the Advanced Game Mode section which I think is a design issue. Having these modes be separated from the "Core" game modes and having them not be selected by default for new players limits how many people queue for them, and because so few people are queued for them, people decide it's not worth it to queue for them and the cycle repeats. Mann Power and Pass Time are bad game modes but payload race and player destruction are certainly popular, and I know maps like Snowplow and Probed would receive way more players if they were in the normal A/D KOTH selections.

[@alexm9603]

I'm not about to defend Gun Game, but saying that people should go play Open Fortress is kinda silly because Team Fortress 2 does not have assault rifles, doom-like double barrel shotguns, and other such weapons, while Open Fortress does. So I can see why people might want gun game in Team Fortress. And one last thing, using dead community servers feels like a bad example because the server browser is really, really awful to use, meaning that the majority of the playerbase doesn't even get to see that gun game exists.

[@MrETF2]

Can we agree that the new project, (not the gun game), that involves brazil, is a masterpiece with a few flaws? It has the 12v12 fit, along with adding a few cool things.

[@hipposeducer28]

Personally I would consider most of the content, especially the maps, to be pretty mediocre, definitely wouldn't consider any of it to be masterpieces (except for maybe a couple of the cosmetics and warpaints.) I think there is a lot of other maps out there floating around on the workshop, which have a lot more design put into them to be balanced and replayable, while many of these maps were just put together and thrown out with a minimal amount of time to be properly tweaked and adjusted. Fitting casual 12v12 should be an expectation for new content, not the top bar.

[@Des_fa]

Well, it's you opinion, I think they just good, not bad, not masterpiece, just normal maps with brazilium

[@evdestroy5304]

I tried some of it out on their official servers, it was pretty good. I remember not really liking the CTF-KOTH map (why are the bases so close???) but I personally enjoyed Embargo.

[@MarkStillPlays]

i play war thunder because the snail enslaved me to spend 1k on it💀

[@brem-]

I feel it would be helpfull if there's like a 1 v-script gamemode per year rule. That way people can't just crap out community gamemodes and call it a day, they have to actually do something since they now got a least a whole year before their game can enter the game instead of the 7 months between smismass and summer, the 3 months between summer and scream fortress, and the like 1 month between scream fortress and smismass. That's my idea anyways, if the 1 v-script gamemode per year rule was acutally a thing people would probably still shit out a gamemode a month before release. And I specify gamemode because the maps that use v-script are pretty alright, so I'd say there isn't a limit on those.

[@j4c0b_that_fell_off]

According to one of the comments on ForgeCall map page: "If you scroll down you will see Wendy (the developer of this map) also saying that if it were for them, they would also make this mode Team-based. Meaning that the person telling them to make these Free-For-All is most likely Lizard of Oz (the developer of the mode and also creator of Saxton Hale)." Your thoughts on that?

[@evdestroy5304]

Not only would these maps bloat the filesize, but they would take up space that could've been used for other maps in the update

[@ErichGrooms1]

Now the VScript gamemode went from GunGame to Deathmatch and it now has the exact same weapons from Open Fortress.

[@CookTF2]

In defense of the Zombie game mode: The servers were kino as the map didn't reset after every round and alltalk was enabled. There were minimal wait times where you are not playing the mode you queued for. It didn't feel like "Casual" and that made it tolerable, even when the mode was arguably terrible. The zombie servers were how TF2 servers were meant to be and it is shame the same config wasn't rolled on every server.

[@Softjuice100]

i really like ZE in communtiy servers the skial ones always have people playing but i understand Monkey s point

[@baconandx1858]

Yeah reasonably ZI seemed like and still kinda feels like the generic “zombie game mode” but admittedly I had a blast playing it when it was fixed. It caught me by surprise so much so when I finished my contract for one of the maps I kept playing for a while. Not all the maps are the best but at the very least it did follow the rule of feeling casual and requiring a team. It’s a stretch compared to VSH with feeling like TF2 but I’d gladly prefer ZI over Prop Hunt and Gun Game.

[@Softjuice100]

@@baconandx1858 cool have u tried zombie escape from skial theres more team work there and its a fun with 50 players

[@felipehbritzke5520]

ah, yes, lets make a gamemode for team fortress 2 but we gonna take off the team part

[@Ledplous]

Play open fortress it's a really fun mod of TF2. Please give it a go. To be fair gun game at least tries, there's effort not greed like prop hunt

[@danielsurvivor1372]

Imho, what's worse for me is that we Already have so many wacky gamemodes, but either because 1) nobody loves them or 2) no updates to said modes makes them super unpopular so why tf we are adding more? Can't we just update existing one's that are popular or atleast potentially can be popular? Just keep updating VSH with QOL changes or maaaybe new boss. Or update those alt gamemodes to make them stop being dead. Like how many ppl play the God damn Express Delivery rocket thing?

[@mrmintymayhem]

If they added in civilian escort then they could maybe keep that in the base map pool

[@Captain_p0wer]

🤓 actually rlcraft and tekkit are modpacks not mods 🤓

[@keeb__]

The problem is quality control. There should be room for the community to experiment and upload their stuff. These things should exist in tf2's workshop. I don't think there is as much money in it as you believe there is. You need to provide evidence that the workshoppers are just trying to make a quick buck.

[@MasterChibi]

I mean prop hunt and the like used to be quite popular, stuff like death run too. Can't discredit them entirely, time comes for us all!

[@omni2066]

honestly thats what competition is all about, who can produce the best thing, if you cannot do that then you wont be as popular, literally the community tab is a great example of this, because, again people are just there for casual tf2

[@TBRACKET]

Hope this videos gets Open Fortress more players

[@hatcrab4923]

I heard that there is discussion about putting it on steam. I pray to God that happens

[@galanga21890]

if there's anything this cheap knockoff is good for, it's for bringing more attention to Open Fortress. i'm pretty casual and don't even like fps arena shooters like Quake and I still found it really fun for the twenty or so matches I've played out of sheer curiosity. anyone who likes to sweat as hard as they can while playing would probably have a blast with it for a while, honestly. as for lizard of oz, i feel like the goodwill he's garnered from updating vs saxton hale (and i genuinely believe it's an amazing update to what's now an ancient community gamemode, despite the balancing issues. wasn't even mad when it got in, to me it's basically just another halloween boss but with a player behind the wheel. adheres to the lore fine too for the most part.) has either gotten to his head or he at the very least had some very false takeaways from the success that the mode garnered when it was first uploaded on the workshop. doesn't help that the people browsing the workshop will upvote anything slightly wacky to oblivion, so that only gives him more incentive to pump this kind of shit out. the dude is crazy talented, ever since vs hale he's just been going in the completely wrong direction, i feel.

[@Flashyface]

Why can't people just fucking play Open Fortress, give it a couple years and people will be making crazy shit in that game. Someone sorta remade COD: Zombies in Open Fortesss, hacky sure? But it's impressive especially since it's not even done via vscript.

[@freddiefishton]

I feel like instead of making new game modes, we should go back and refine old ones (like Medieval!)

[@rig_]

why dont people just play open fortress

[@Purpbatboi]

shit server support

[@ttpbroadcastingcompany.4460]

Valve could take it down at any time if they so wish.

[@hipposeducer28]

@@ttpbroadcastingcompany.4460 Which I find to be incredibly unlikely when Valve doesn't give a shit about tf2, let alone niche mods for it.

[@drawter3592]

@@hipposeducer28 they did kill tf2 source 2

[@hipposeducer28]

@@drawter3592 tf2s2 was a re-make of tf2 in the source 2 engine, that was planned to be released to the public for anyone to do whatever they want with it. I find that to be much different from a mod of tf2 that people just play for fun, and I imagine from Valve's viewpoint it's very different too.

[@eroedellabrina3851]

I honestly don't understand how this is a problem, I know you said that the "If you don't like it, don't play it" argument doesn't work because you have to install the maps, but you also do that with a bunch of shit base game maps so it's a valid argument. As you said some custom game modes are literally dead so they're hurting no one but the people that host the servers. I can only agree with the game modes not working as they're intended at times, but I don't think the "Just go play another game that does it better, stop playing this game" works, the TF2 community is the TF2 community, you don't get the experience anywhere else. In the end it's not the vscript game mode makers that are in the wrong even if I go by your logic, it's Valve's being in the wrong for putting them in there. Another argument I think is valid is the cluttered menu but even then, you have to open the drop-down menu to even get all the maps shown to you. I really think that this is a non issue that is being blown up but I respect your opinion, just disagree with it.

[@hipposeducer28]

The game needs more quality control over all with non v script gamemode maps included. Either that or Valve needs to work on the matchmaking system, which I don't see happening, and pretty much proves your point that it's Valve's fault for the game's current state. Valve additionally does not test any modes or maps before adding them, and they most likely just leave the community to rate for the maps themselves and then Valve picks from the top rated maps within the past 3 months. With that said though, Workshoppers are putting these modes together in a minimal amount of time in order to push out as much content as possible before an update is released in order to maximize the chances of it being added, and within the workshop sphere these people generally ingore criticism that actual players give them and instead move onto the next project as soon as possible to make more money and receive more gratification from other people within the workshop sphere. The few v script modes that have been added show this very clearly, and the same goes for maps of normal game modes that are added in without the proper amount of tweaks and adjustments to make them balanced and replayable gameplay-wise. This all really sucks because there has been high quality content on the workshop for years that has never been added, and there is high quality content still being created on the workshop that may not be chosen if Valve decides to add something else like gun game or some of the new hastily put-together Tropic Crisis maps instead. It's important to still work for some type of quality control even if Valve refuses to do it themselves.

[@eroedellabrina3851]

@@hipposeducer28 I agree, quality control should be extremely important, not, as you said, just the top rated things. I feel really bad for this game. It used to be amazing and now it just doesn't feel the same. People still seem to enjoy it so maybe some of us have changed and not so much the game...

[@shrimpchris6580]

No it's still a fucking dogshit argument. At the barest minimum, watering down the map pool so much is awful for a games long term health

[@FungIsSquish]

Absolutely true, I don’t get why he cares so much about literally nothing 😭😭 people are so desperate for something new to complain about...

[@Monkey_XDD]

If you give them an inch, they’ll take a mile. Open Fortress is way better in every way when it comes to Gun Game, and it’s free so just go download it if you haven’t. Gun Game is nowhere close to what Open Fortress is. Open fortress is also getting continuous support from the developers, more maps, cosmetics, guns etc. And it would make sense for these people to go and work on that game and bring attention to it, instead of poorly shoehorning it into this game instead. And even if it got added, it would not get any care whatsoever, because there is 0 money to be made once valve accepts it. The workshoppers will go and make other stuff because AGAIN money. Just because something is new, does not justify it being added into the game.

[@Real_RUBB3R]

Personally, I think it's fine and even cool to see what people can do with V-Script gamemodes. Even if they're rushed, unfinished, not as good as their counterparts, etc, whatever. However, I do agree that these gamemodes should not be added as official game modes like Vs Saxton Hale was. Yes, other games can provide the same experience, like how Gmod gives you a better Prop Hunt experience rather than TF2, but if it's a custom gamemode that's only playable in community servers, who cares? It's not hurting anyone

[@Monkey_XDD]

If they were made to be put into community servers than I’m more than happy with it. However, the fact that I don’t see any of these v-script maps on game banana or something and only on the workshop; tells me that they just wanna make money instead of an actual new experience.

[@IsaacShoebottom]

@@Monkey_XDD Or, they just don't know about gamebananna and just view the workshop as the official place to put maps. Community servers can use the workshop as a cdn so they don't have to have everyone download the map from the server itself, which is a lot of bandwidth and storage space if the server has a large server pool.

[@Pokets]

Will you ever make "Stop The Slop Part 3"? I love this series.

[@NoobWonderWaffle]

Yknow this issue kind of reminds me of that issue, of that one restaurant owner in Kitchen Nightmares where he was just adding things he saw from other restaurants for no reason.

[@bapbop2399]

TF2 has been going on for years without update so adding something new i pretty nice, but yeah adding gamemode not for the game is kinda just stabbing yourself

[@chilX3467]

I wouldn't mind existing game modes from other games being implemented into tf2 so long as it fits with the core game. I don't know why people are prioritizing unorthodox game modes over game modes that looks and feels like it belongs in the casual map pool. This might not be a good a example, but I'd prefer push from overwatch 2 or hardpoint from cod being added into tf2 over prop hunt because at least there's an objective to contest and defend akin to control points and payload carts.

[@Ang3lUki]

Monkey, do you not realize there have been TF2 Zombie Infection, Gun Game, and Prop Hunt modded community servers for ages? You don't need to own gmod to play these gamemodes.

[@Ang3lUki]

You're gonna shit yourself when Vscript TF2 super smash bros mode gets in.

[@titicaca.]

there used to be gg community servers where you played as the classes normally, it was quite fun.

[@comitateus]

4:03 Lo-fi Longcat: "Don't clip that" sorry bud you're in the rant video now everyone saw you

[@darkynu_san7121]

God for second i thought it will be about de_dust2 gungame map

[@i5565]

Mönkey: *explains what is video about at the beginning* Me: *watching pyro destroying the Red team*

[@hydroponicgard]

This is the sole reason I stopped playing tf2. Shoving useless stuff in the game n just making my game run like arse, and then having MORE POINTLESS GAMEMODES added... I'll just go back to speedrunning Cruelty Squad at this rate.

[@s_callahan]

you don't have to play them lol :3

[@ids.]

@@s_callahan yeah you should play open fortress instead it would be way better than that v-script slop

[@toasty_mann]

>criticizes V-script users for creating slop >channel is dedicated to creating casual mode slop videos with occasional videos like this that are just him bitching and swearing like he's in some shitty adult swim show lol

[@Monkey_XDD]

Difference here is that, I make stuff on KZbin, you can always choose to ignore it and it doesn’t have any effect on the game at all. I play with my friends and I share my experiences with people and that’s all I give a fuck about. I don’t try to forcefully inject another game into this game officially for a paycheck, just because Valve has my name and tax info written down on paper that they can copy and paste for every update season. I care for this game, and valve is definitely not caring for it so I’ll do my best to preserve this game for how it is.

[@toasty_mann]

@@Monkey_XDD nobody is forcing you to play the gun game. experimentation has been a core part of TF2 for a while, the only difference being the community makes it now and not valve or some other studio If we were to get something like MVM, mannpower, or pass time today I'm almost sure you would be saying the same thing you are now about community gamemodes suggested. I'm not here suggesting deathrun or murder mystery or something along those lines that you and ZJ like to strawmen people in support of this into, trust me, I did not want prop hunt either, but this keeps its roots as a fast paced shooter and does something interesting. I would take this instead of another summer update that's just more crates and war paints

[@Monkey_XDD]

@@toasty_mann With how Valve is now, they will not care for the game at all. I think we preserve this game for what it is, Team Fortress 2 and not some diet Open Fortress, again you can go play that right now. And let me say this again, we got Saxton Hale accepted, and that opened the floodgates that are these soulless v-script gamemodes that tries to imitate another game entirely. And these workshoppers will do anything to make another paycheck for themselves. They will make more gamemodes, and will not care if it does or does not fit within the style of the game. This game is not flourishing at all, it will slowly decline due to the lack of support from Valve, cheaters and bots ruining it for players and with the F2Ps being mute; this game will not grow. I wish they pulled the fucking plug.

[@toasty_mann]

@@Monkey_XDD Just because a V script maker makes something does not automatically mean it will be put into TF2, if that's the case, where's that prop hunt map you and (In this case, rightfully) bitched about? Even then, you act like making a V script is some overnight job that takes a couple of hours like submitting a hat on the workshop. You guys act like the V script creators are some sinister group of people trying to deride TF2 of it's identity solely for the purpose of money, because why the fuck else would you bring the bot crisis up? What do they have to do with valve's laziness on their end? "I wish they pulled the fucking plug" lmao, you don't have to be so goddamn dramatic, as much as you hate this community you know its also where you get your views from, like it or not

[@metrocop_elite]

difference is that his content doesnt affect the game like these slop v-script gamemodes do

[@HamaIicious]

The game is called team fortress 2, not fortress.

[@aereonexapprentice7205]

I was coming here to disagree since the first thing that came into my mind was Open Fortress' gun game which looks so fun, and valve putting it into the game will put more traffic and attention more than Open Fortress which literally nobody knows about and even if somebody knew, they would not bother playing it (speaking as a South East Asian player). But then i found out from this video that it is different and wow so that's why it may suck butt. Edit: Also some reason i would absolutely play Open Fortress' gun game if it got put into the official game: The movement feels nice since it's TF2, other games with gun game has either slow pace (CS2, which also has bots lol) or crackhead energy (COD). The physics too would have the same argument. And i would play Prop Hunt in TF2 rather than GMOD is because TF2 is free and gmod is almost half my weekly allowance (89000 rupiahs plus taxes, i could genuinely buy 5-7 full meals with that). But alas, even the prophunt gamemode in the workshop is a rushed ass of a product that even pales in comparison to the old ones that community server hosts where the props are scouts and the seekers are pyros. Honestly why did the workshop creators not restrict classes and allow aimbotting sentries as the seekers, are they dumb?

[@stoneapollyon8313]

if you play gun game would this be called "Fortress 2"?

[@NotASealZebra]

I think the overall bigger issue is we need a new Team Fortress game. I'd be perfectly fine if TF3 had gamemodes like Gungame, Infection, TDM, Prophunt, etc on top of some other traditional gamemodes, but TF2 should stay as TF2 to not ruin its identity.

[@profikiller7303]

We need 3fort

[@miguelpp8342]

3:50 Soldier: Don't clip that Mönke: *I'll ignore that*

[@Monkey_XDD]

I’m gonna pretend that I didn’t see that

[@dirtyrat886]

You know he has a point when the only counter I’ve seen to this video is “ Oh, you cursed too much.”, “He’s being too mean.”, and “Be grateful of the slop you’re giving.”

[@Canonically_canon]

I quote "tf2 is not a modern game, so dont treat it like one."

[@southernninja7786]

Can't wait for vscript official deathrun, prop hunt, call of doo doo

[@o_psicopato]

we are so outta content we resorted to making sequels

[@BotFisherman]

More mogey ranting, love it

[@miguelgarciagarcia6576]

The latvian council will come to a conclusion in 37 marianas trench squid years

[@noobnotarealanoob8631]

i thought of a map where its like degroot keep but every point brings next age of technology up to the future

[@Alphalesbien]

Do you think we’ll get more support for community game modes or do you think they’ll just shove in more vscript “mods”?

[@Zitronbtw]

I don't understand the negativity surrounding these new game modes. VALVE's last major update was Jungle Inferno. Since then, most updates have consisted of bug fixes, cosmetics, and automatic holiday events. Any substantial content updates have typically come from the community. The game is fortunate to have people dedicated to revitalizing it with new and interesting content. The new vscript modes simply offer players a different experience from the usual "push the payload" or "capture the points", they still give the players an objective to do such as "Kill Saxton hale", "Survive the zombies". Sure, they are buggy and broken on release, but they get fixed over time. Look at VSH, it as literally unplayable for like what, 1 week? 2 weeks? But then it got fixed, same thing with the zombie mode. I played the game for five years before quitting in 2019. I returned solely because of the summer update that added VSH to the base game. While I'm not interested in Gun Game, I am anticipating the Tropical Crisis project and hoping it gets added.

[@sadmate_]

Yeah, and I fail to see where this is the issue of the creators themselves. Valve's TF2 dev team is choosing to add these, thats where the liability should be at. This rant is blatantly negative towards creative thinking and developing, yet people are praising it cause its coming from their "favorite tf2ber". I have said this before and I'll say it again, Mönkey's takes are generally one of the worst ones I've seen in this community so far. The only reason I'm watching him is for the funny compilations and he should stick to those if he is not going to put more effort into his rant videos. He legit called "RLCraft" and "Tekkit" a *mod* lol. Those are *modpacks* consisting of many, many mods that are stitched together. Funnily enough, now that Mojang is under Microsoft, they are doing a very similar thing such as TF2 is doing right now where they have a marketplace in bedrock edition that sells "mods" which are basically crappy scripts that add janky functionality of actual mods to the bedrock edition, with a price point. I have seen people complain about this too but not to this extend cause you can choose between which version to play, so I get that its problematic that you cant do the same in TF2 if the devs bundle it all together. Otherwise I don't really agree with the rest of the video.

[@blazinglightgt8673]

I'd rather not have 40GB of bloat on my pc... Adding new game modes and maps add more storage, meaning more bloat on the game... fuck that shit.

[@hipposeducer28]

The current tf2 workshop sphere, especially when it comes to these v script modes, is full of creators who hastily put together these modes in hopes of them being added and then don't touch the mode again after they're gone, just for nobody to play them outside from a very small niche community of people, who could have simply chosen to play on community servers instead, especially with the fact that the now poorly maintained and overly bloated holiday rotation only makes some of these modes only last for a twelfth of the year when they could be up year-round in the server browser. Again, not all of these creators are dedicated to revitalizing the game, and some who are decide against even paying attention to any criticism toward what they're creating and only want to receive praise for having their product added into the game. Both Monkey and Zesty (primarily in his Too Much of a Good Thing video) stress this fact of how many of these creators aren't caring at all and are only after money and gratification. And to the sadmate guy in the replies, people aren't lashing out against these modes for the sole purpose of their "favorite tf2ber" talking about it. What happens is that these youtubers are revealing what is happening on the workshop and how it is effecting the game, so that people who actually play the game are able to be informed and then make their own decision off of that. I wouldn't say it's Valve's TF2 dev team's fault at this point, because TF2 really doesn't have any resemblance of a dev team anymore aside from two known individuals who provide a few fixes now and then and randomly pick out high rated content three times every year when the holidays roll around. Which leaves content into the communities' hands to properly create these projects while listening to criticism and working off of that criticism to create a result that makes everyone happy. Branching off of this, just because things are high rated does not really reflect the actual playerbase's opinion surrounding it, which Zesty reflects upon in his latest Nobody's Home video at the end and especially in his latest video on his second channel, which I really suggest you take a moment to listen to, and he brings up a point that most votes come from external vocal spheres outside of the workshop, usually consisting of people who don't all play the game and mostly of people who don't bother testing and picking between low and high quality content, and how people who actually play the game aren't all aware of the facts surrounding how content is implemented into the game, and likely don't care because they don't want to spend time picking out content to play, which leads to many of the people who assist Valve in picking content out being people who may not even be playing the game much, if at all. He also expands upon how a lot of gameplay based content on the workshop doesn't even have a reliable place to test it to begin with, with the latest Tropic Crisis content pack being a first in actually having dedicated servers to test and play the content on.

[@alanwie3914]

If you don't want to "push the payload" or "capture the points", then just go play a different game, because that's clearly what you are looking for.

[@MerkONeil]

Bullet Points make life easier - Community Outlets Exist to cater toward these various tastes that cant be aquired in base TF2 (Community Servers, Projects, etc). But only a minority ever really touch them (or the catered to audience flatout doesnt exist at times) - Why do we need to intrude this distant and antithetical gamemode into a game that no one that plays the base game wants. Only those that like t hat taste of content will play it and likely move right back to whatever community server / game they were plaiyng to begin with. - VScript is NOT a modding tool, but is being treated as such. Theres limitations that cant be pushed past . Why are we making full-on gamemodes with it that are firmly within mod territory. Poor Optimization and MANY bugs to be expected from overusing a tool (You wouldnt use a pressure washer to solve -every- problem, as impressive as it may be, its a bad idea) - Precedence exists that proves that gamemodes diverging from the Vanilla TF2 Experience are NOT recieved well and are eventually abandoned by the playerbase or only played by a minority of players that dont want to play the base game (e.g. PASS-Time, Mannpower, 6v6, etc). (only exception to the above is MvM, which is a well-established and entirely seperate game embedded in TF2 that still retains many core elements and design aspects of the base game -- either unchanged or expanded upon via upgrades) - stop pissing on my fucking carpet, take it outside or use the bathroom. Its there for a reason-- stop ignoring it or being oblivious to the fact.

[@Hihi-pv3qg]

Alright, that raises the question. What do YOU think is a good game mode to make for TF2? I can agree that the game modes being made for money are horrid, but it's clear there's a demand for it, and talking shit about what's on there already without offering ideas feels too negative in my opinion.

[@hipposeducer28]

V.I.P gamemode from tf2c would be cool (assuming workshoppers dont botch it)

[@hatcrab4923]

​@@hipposeducer28that's a good fuckin mode

[@purplehaze2358]

"And for the record, you can like gun game; fun is objective" Uh, Monkey? I think you used the wrong word. "Subjective" would be the better term.

[@MerkONeil]

4:10 This isnt to detract from your point as much-- But with more successful community servers hosting these vastly different experiences, they're able to serve the minority of players that enjoy it. They've already been cattered to and have an outlet for their fix-- So why do we need to shoe-horn it in officially when literally anything else can be added or implimented to fix the game? Nevermind how distant and antithetical Gun Game is to TF2's Core Principals. Can it be fun? Sure Is there already an outlet for it that the community can tap into? Yes Then Why Do we Need it in the official game? Short answer: We Dont. No one wants this--- if they do theres plenty of community outlets (Open Fortress / Modded Community servers) to get their fix. Or alternatively, another game entirely that isnt trying to be TF2

[@MerkONeil]

tl;dr: Theres community outlets already to play other games in TF2 via community servers or projects that only a minority of players enjoy -- Why do we need to shoe horn it in and dump it onto the majority of players that dont want it or dont care. It only serves to bloat and further distance the game from what it strives and intends to be-- and what the vast majority of us pick up to play. Or in other words "Stop Pissing on my fucking rug asshole. Take it outside or to the bathroom"

[@youtubeisnotsocialmedia]

Slop is such a nice, succinct word. What else is such shovelware but crappy, smelly slop placed upon a plate?

[@thecrimsonviscount5689]

I think what this game with the unique visual style and gameplay actually needs is a new gamemode where BLU play as Oskar Dirlewanger and his [Assass] gang and the RED as Jewish and Slavic children. Sounds authentical to me.

[@ztql]

while i agree with playing gmod for better experience you forgot one vital thing, gmod cost money and tf2 doesn't, that's why a lot of player who is mostly f2p or don't want to spend money on gmod sees this as golden chance to try new gamemodes even if it doesn't fit tf2's philosophy. but a gun game in tf2 is such a stupid idea

[@Monkey_XDD]

Roblox exists and community servers exists but sadly they’re dead because nobody is looking for that experience. There are literally 0 people wanting hide n seek in TF2.

[@ztql]

in my region there is almost no one playing community servers and no kids playing roblox, so when saxton hale and zombies gamemode came I finally got a taste of a different custome gamemode in tf2. maybe its the server browser fault but I digress.

[@hipposeducer28]

@@ztql If you're in a region with nobody playing roblox then I don't think you're in a community with people playing tf2

[@ztql]

@@hipposeducer28 that might be it tbh, guess i should have seen this coming ever since causal take 20 to 30 mins and most of the times its bot

[@stubbystubby]

I want to see vscript used to make unique game modes centered around the 12v12 casual format. Capture-the-Payload, for example. I can't think of too many examples, but that one train/cp map is basically capture the payload on crack, and Overwatch sorta perfected it. I like the idea of mixing capture points + payload objectives into one. It's unique, and adds variety. Capture a point, summon payload, push payload. Maybe you're given a new objective before you can cap the next point. Could be fun, could be awful, but at least it'd be something cool to see experimented with. Or, what about a new CTF map that tweaks how CTF is handled? We're all used to crits on cap, 1 minute briefcase respawn, instant briefcase capture, etc. Would be unique if you had to do more to capture a flag--or taking the Doomsday style of flag capture but change it so there's just one flag each team has to contest. Such as adapting the Power Seed game mode (forget what it's called) from Halo: Infinite. Capture 5 briefcases and your team wins. The briefcase will spawn in different parts of a, somewhat, large map. Briefcases can be reset entirely by knocking them out of the map, too, just for added fun. I agree with you, though. Tired of these weird game modes being pushed. I was okay with Vs Saxton Hale because it is a classic of TF2 "community game modes," and there was a lot of passion put into it. And while it's not RED vs BLU, it at least TRIED to keep the essence of team work there and replaced the announcer with Graymann to make it a bit more unique. But, I do see how it died down and why it diluted the pool. If I had the time and energy, I'd probably just try and make maps/game modes myself. Sadly, it's a big creative effort that I can't pursue due to my efforts being placed elsewhere. Hopefully some people with more talent, energy and motivation read this and maybe get a few ideas for making twists on game modes we already have and using VScript to enhance those game modes.

[@Geebanger0]

Tf2 no longer fits on my hard drive, I had to uninstall it

[@reax5526]

I think a problem is that TF2 doesn't have the player count to support these many maps and game modes

[@KalaschniKlown]

name a person who still plays open fortress actually don't even try because nobody plays it, thats why its in tf2 now

[@starmaker75]

If we truly going to add new tf2 mods, I think the best community mode would be stop that tank. It basically playload mixed some mvm stuff . Sure some of the mechanics of it, especially the robot can be confusing at first. However I don't think it that different from regular playload, offense bring the bomb and defending prevent it

[@Nobleflounder74]

Gun game huh, didnt hear that for a long time from this chanel, but hope you do good. :D

[@Vekxz1]

and then god came down from heaven and said:

[@J4X1Z]

This is the same song and dance (with gamemodes) again, can't wait for the Halloween version of this.

[@nike5772]

Not too fond of Gun Game, let’s give Prop Hunt another shot right hahahahHAHAHAHAHAHHAHA ❤ Let’s hope this game isn’t more joever than possibly thought

[@JohnnyCZistaken]

the workshop has fallen, millions must play vscript slop

[@Davtwan]

SpaceGuyOnline lets out a single tear. (Joking joking, don’t snap my neck.)

[@CHARLESAUVET]

PLEASE go play open fortress. One of the best fps/quake-like game ever. It just lacks players!

[@BoiledTable]

It needs its own steam page, that would probably help a lot. Also it’s still technically in alpha

[@elviciosanto3275]

buenas pfp charles también me gusta buckethead! yo si fuera valve compraría los derechos de open fortress! posdata: puta madre bethesta deja que ID saque un nuevo Quake con estética Lovecraftiana

[@hatcrab4923]

It's really really really good. Hope it gets on steam

[@Monkey_XDD]

Me and my friends have thought about playing it, it looks intriguing.