The Deadly Obsession of Lucas Markham & Kim Edwards

[@poophead1503]

Killed the sister so she wouldn't call the cops, stayed at the crime scene for 36h waiting on the cops. Makes sense.

[@lori3548]

Sick

[@stuartl4545]

Ii8

[@alzychoze6591]

Under-developed mind of the pubescent on display.

[@TheMADMonkeyLOL]

Well their original plan was to commit suicide right after, and didn't want Katie ruining it by calling the police. Course, they abandoned that & spent time together instead downstairs and I guess they knew eventually the police would come.

[@Boo-dawg.]

People like us will never comprehend the genius of people like him. 🤣

[@robertahubert9155]

Every time you say “ Hey You” my husband comes to mind. That was his greeting to me from day 1 and until his last day on this earth.. 🌹 Thanks Mike for all your hard work and thanks for you just being you.

[@jordansummers8857]

🖤🖤🖤🖤🖤

[@catherinegriessel56]

That was lovely, you were and are a lucky lady

[@71Bopper]

Snap! This always makes me think of my husband too, he always said that & the “love ya” as greetings & goodbye! It’s nice to hear a familiar story. Thanks Mike I always answer your sign off with the “love ya too”. Silly I know but nice to hear that even if it’s only through video! 🤣💖

[@nobbynoris]

@@71Bopper Reminds me of my ex-wife. I always used to say "Let's give it a goo!" before we would have sex. She divorced me and she cited my, ahem, "weird, eccentric sense of humour" as a cause. Bitch.

[@mxkvri]

awh thats so lovely

[@legoqueen2445]

So messed up. The single mum having spent her life either beaten up or trying to escape her violent husband only to be killed by her own daughter. A daughter who was already getting beaten up and controlled by the boyfriend. Tragic all around.

[@DarkCaseDocumentaries]

A tragic symptom of an increasingly broken society. So sad.

[@hannah_wolf]

The mother also beat the daughter. I keep picturing that child coming home to find everything in her room gone. Things she kept from her childhood. From her friends. Maybe photos from good memories. A stuffed toy maybe. Even just your familiar bed. I hate that I have to qualify this with the 'I still don't condone what they did' statement, I don't condone it. But that act was so cruel. The mother could not have sent clearer signal: she was done with her. She must have felt so unloved.

[@kathleen5296]

@@hannah_wolf ​ I completely agree with you. 💯 Violence and murder are not the answer. Nothing excuses what Kim and Lucas did to Liz and Katy. Therefore, it should go without saying, that I also don’t condone Kim’s disgusting crimes. However, and again, though Liz did not at all deserve to be killed, I do believe she was highly unfit for guardianship; custody should never have been reinstated. Liz chose violent partners who she had planted in her daughters’ young lives. She may have left those partners, eventually, but she then became violent herself. She punched a six year old! Liz was not able to handle teenage angst, she could not control her own anger, but she couldn’t even handle a defenseless child of only six. Since she was unable to calm herself enough to sit down in a loving, open and mindful manner to communicate possible resolutions, she most definitely needed professional help. Instead, when things began to boil over, she fostered further deep-mistrust and resentment by going through her daughter’s belongings (probably some holding sentimental value) and clearing them out. Liz essentially threw a fit, and sent a clear message of cruelty. I’ll never understand why some parents set a bad example throughout their children’s young lives, then fail to listen to their issues with an open mind and loving heart when they grow to be teenagers, and/or they ignore clear signs of mental illness. Instead, these parents do nothing but scream and yell, including threats, without listening for a single moment, but then act as if they’re utterly gobsmacked when their teenager acts out more severely. Teenage acting-out generally (thankfully) does not devolve into this extreme level of darkness. It sounds like Kim was seriously mentally ill, but was never provided with treatment. This, again, does not mean Liz deserved death. It’s just very unfortunate that this all may have been avoided if professional intervention was taken, especially after Kim’s relationship with Lucas began, or whenever there were behavior changes.

[@pakde8002]

Her mom Liz also used violence against Kim when she was just six years old. Violence breeds violence.

[@romeowandrainbow1040]

@@hannah_wolf I totally agree. My dad still keeps my room at his house as it always was and I don’t even live there and im 38. Completely heartless and not the right way to show guidance and unconditional love to your daughter. There are other ways. She already felt unloved as it was. Probably why she thought being treated like shit by that boyfriend was ok. Not saying this girl is justified tho, not one bit. I think she’s very damaged, she didn’t actually go through with the killing tho as she couldn’t. the boyfriend did tho he is deffo a psycho. Never should be allowed out

[@HamsterK37]

Criminologist David Wilson has bluntly described them as demonstrating a 'high level of psychopathy', singling out Kim’s egocentric belief that she was actually doing her mother and sister a favour by killing them. In Kim’s words, 'my mum doesn’t have to deal with me anymore being like suicidal and she doesn’t have to wake up worrying every morning to see if I’m still alive', while killing Katie saved her from going through 'the heartbreak and just all the emotions

[@lynn5050]

Exactly! If you listen to the taped interviews, she's accepting no responsibility.

[@SeanGilbertson]

I had the same reaction: everything she said about the victims was about herself.

[@sofiakatelyn]

absolutely

[@teresareynolds4364]

Yes, Unbelievable, yet said she hated her mother because she loved her younger sister more, but justified it by saying her mother wouldn't have to worry if she was going to commit suicide, total contradiction, pure evil and will kill again if crossed,

[@UnknownFlyingPancake]

People regularly underestimate what children are capable of. Empathy is something that is largely learned. Combine a lack of empathy with still underdeveloped brains, kids can be absolute monsters.

[@if91100]

Empathy is largely hindered by puberty fun fact.

[@ladydragon5526]

And with the increase of social media there will be an increase in the lack of empathetic responses because when you have no such social interaction face to face then you can't engage someone's response when you say or do something that's the problem with today's society!

[@MN-bf1me]

@@anthonyryan6716 "you've been saying"? This is a *single* case spoken about here. One case does not represent a damn thing. Your logic is so flawed that it's astounding.

[@smellygoster2657]

Anthony Ryan there's no logic to what you said at all.

[@mikoshmitty]

anthony ryan that's a combination of a straw man fallacy and a circular reasoning fallacy. Try harder

[@lostsoul3353]

I feel most sorry for the sister. They should never be let out.

[@TheGalacticEmperorOfLabels]

They should be let out when they are both extremely elderly and infirm, to be paraded through the streets in leg irons and manacles.

[@TheSoonToBePurgedJackMeHoff55]

Short drops and sudden stops

[@Drake-qg6ot]

So true

[@Schinzo__]

She deserved it

[@calumbutter8959]

I despise what they did but children's brains are unable to make rational decisions. It's the very definition of not competent. It's why we helicopter over them and guide them as much as we can for as long as we can.

[@wendywhistles674]

I’d listen to you reading the phone book. Best true crime KZbinr out there. Thank you for all your hard work, Mike x

[@harridan.]

Echo that

[@redriddler1231]

Alpha Bravo Tango that too

[@lisacanavan5665]

@Red Riddler😂😂😂

[@RendaJane]

Wow. Hadn’t thought of it before but that’s probably true if he had a good story to tell about every 7th number.

[@faefee]

@@RendaJaneor every “tird” 😂

[@hellobirdie0617]

This episode really shows how truly talented you are as a true crime narrator. You have an amazing ability to seamless weave in humour while showing the utmost respect for the victims and their families. You have found your true calling 😉

[@karakolles4872]

I agree!!

[@SilentEchoes91]

Right he had this story organized and told it perfectly. I say this because wow it's such a jam packed story.

[@amberspaulding]

I bet it could be fun though, if instead of horrible stories and gross people, Mike could lead us on tours of his favorite small towns. "Best Small Towns and Villages of Florida, Ontario and Upstate New York!" We know how much he longs to dive into the life of these fascinating places and the kaleidescopic life their citizens are always leading-- endless variety, cultural excellence-- that's the kind of thing he'd show us. And instead of plunging into the lives of sick families on the verge of dissolution, there'd be visits with the mayor, his lady wife, and other dignitaries. So interesting for him and us and we don't have to fear tuning in to Mike, only to get massively depressed and bummed out. Not that I'm complaining but--just an idea, Mike- Oh.

[@callunya]

The irrational underdeveloped minds of teenagers really do scare the shit out of me

[@theblackbaron4119]

Inhales *THEY SAY THAT TEENAGERS SCARE THE LIVING SHIT OUTTA' ME!*

[@whythenumber]

@@theblackbaron4119 🗣🗣THEY COULD CARE LESS AS LONG AS SOMEBODY BLEEDS

[@kurtcurtis2730]

Yes - exactly. As we learn more about brain development and how traumatic exposures in early childhood affect the brain it’s surprising the human species made it this far

[@calumbutter8959]

I remember being a 14yo boy. They are not nice, not at all. I think it's why evolution makes them play with themselves so much. If not for that little blessing there would be loads more of this.

[@endless3cho]

@@kurtcurtis2730 I think it's more sad we've only made it this far.

[@nonabliss]

I love how the girl tried to make herself seem kind and merciful to her mom and sis by saying that they don't have to worry about her anymore now since they were slaughtered by her and her boyfriend. Yeah, she's a very thoughtful person in that sense, right?!?

[@donnabednarczyk786]

Jill

[@cathiefaith1434]

Right if she was that concerned just k!ll yourself if you care so much about your family.

[@markmike7933]

I'm pretty miserable most of the time. But I hope someone out there doesn't love me that much! :) In fact, if everyone who worries at one time or another or is not that happy at one time or another was killed, there'd be very few people left on the planet.

[@tasteslikepennies2549]

Shit there's a couple of KZbinrs that I would rather end up murdered by then watch them again. Who knows it might be an actual mercy lol

[@1997bronco]

Classic narcissistic behavior clearly has a wire loose somewhere needs serious help.

[@RikiB004]

17 years, zero remorse and still only 17 years. Horrific justice system

[@robswystun2766]

Geez, I accidentally ran over a cat yesterday and that's going to haunt me for months. I can't imagine being so callous that murdering your own mother and sister is seen as some kind of favour to them.

[@isabb]

What about the oldest sister? Time to Google. Edit: Apparently the oldest sister had to go identify the bodies and she went to court to listen to the trial. That poor woman, I hope she gets all the therapy she wants/needs. 17,5 years is not enough in my opinion.

[@TheStar798]

I've known this story for years - and never knew about Mary! Thanks for the update 👍 Poor lass

[@chick-fil-agal2264]

They should add the victims ages n hers and give both that amount of years.

[@mauricedavis2160]

Not an ounce of remorse and eventually will be released to prey on someone else!!!🙏😢⚖️🤔

[@melissadunton3534]

@@chick-fil-agal2264 excellent idea. I’ve always thought they should average out the amount of time someone has left to live and then give them those amount of years, but i guess if they kill an older person that wouldn’t exactly work out very well for the victims or their families. Maybe the sentencing should be one of those two options. If they kill someone 50 and under then they estimate that the victim would have lived to...say, 75 years old. Then the murderer gets 25 years in jail minimum just for the murder charge. Then they also get the minimum time for what ever other charges they accrue while committing the onslaught of their crime(s). If they kill more than one person you add up all the years and that is also part of their sentence. If someone kills a person that is over 50 years old then the judge or jury adds the age of the victim to the number of years the killer must serve. Then all the other minimum required years for the rest of the charges. This should especially be true in the UK, Canada and Australia, as i believe they are immeasurably lenient on murderers.

[@Autumnpearly]

@@melissadunton3534 there’s also have way lower murder and crime rates in those countries because of their lower sentences and the fact that they actually do their job and rehabilitate these people. They also treat their prisoners better in every aspect. And before you say it, yes…I know that “these people should be given the worst circumstances available” but people that say this stuff don’t realize that murders only take up a small percentage of the prison system so that argument is moot. Not only do they actually rehabilitate people but they’ve also decriminalized drugs and have true harm reduction programs so the 45% of our prison system that are in OUR prisons for non violent drug charges are non-existent there. Canada has safe supply programs where they can go to a type of vending machine/kiosk and get opioids 3 times a day to get high with so they’re not having illicit fentanyl on their streets being the number one cause of death like in the US. The Netherlands have clinics like our methadone clinics where people with substance use disorder can go and get their daily dose of heroin and/or cocaine in the 80s. They’re actually the the first ever to even have a harm reduction center and clinic. Guess what happened to these people that 🇺🇸 would deem a waste/too far gone/living off the government/degenerates ? They lived normal lives and were productive members of society. The best part of all this is because drugs have always been legal in the Netherlands so there’s absolutely no freaking stigma surrounding people who use substances and their success rate of their treatment facilities is through the roof because they don’t drill into peoples heads that abstinence is the only way to recover and that myth of “once an “addict”/“alcoholic”, always an “addict”/“alcoholic” that were both made up by AA and were both dangerously incorrect and have costs millions their lives. So people always bash these countries but they got it figured out. Our prison system only teaches criminals to do even harder crimes cause theyre never taught they can be more than what they think and that they’re better than this and creates severe untreated mental illnesses. Hence our extreme and rapidly increasing crime rates.

[@DovieRuthAuthor]

So sad when kids are attracted to abusive mates because they are familiar in a sick and dysfunctional sort of way. Of course, adults do this too.

[@ianjacka469]

I couldn't agree more, very common when you look at a lot of couples.

[@j3611]

If Kim hadn't met Lucas, it would have been someone exactly like him because even though he could be violent and abusive, he still showed her love. Kim was primed for any future partner who gave her affection & "love", regardless of how toxic that relationship might be. The only positive I can see that came out of this case, is that by committing the murders at such a young age they were separated early, before they could have children and drag them into their violent & toxic version of a love story, and create a new generation of damaged children.

[@oliveryt7168]

Too many women (or girls, like in this case) are attracted to idiots, bullies and jerks... It's like a force that attracts them to their own ruin.

[@cryptghoul]

its so upsetting to think that the mother fought for her life most likely thinking her entire family was in danger that night. her last thoughts were pure struggle and fear for her kids

[@rockyrox4591]

Your intro and closing NEVER gets old to me! It ain’t That Chapter without “let’s have a goo” and “-cuz I love ya… Mike out.” It’s such a simple but great opener and closing, that’s makes me excited to hear the storytelling and ends with the best feeling, cuz we Love ya too, and your storytelling is important and means so much to us! I’m Irish as well, but 2nd gen American. My name is Erin, last name couldn’t be more Irish either. Just adore you Mike!

[@tech5298]

He really does make murder and family insanity stories a lot of fun! Luck of the Irish ☘️?

[@1017BrickSquaddd22]

people post this so mike will do this case, i just heard about it and theres a lot of footage online of the killer in court so it fits perfect for mike format, the CASE OF Matthew Cecchi, he went into a public bathroom while his aunt stood outside, and someone killed him inside, the aunt saw several men go in and out of that restroom, and what seemed like 4ever, she finally went in to check on him and he was dead, i dont wanna look more into the case because i want mike to cover it so i can watch his vid the first time i really check it out

[@Terri_MacKay]

@@1017BrickSquaddd22 Suggest the case to him on Twitter...there's a much better chance that he'll see your Tweet than a YT comment.

[@imaginarydreamz7794]

You mean, "let's have a gew". haha.

[@DarkCaseDocumentaries]

@@1017BrickSquaddd22 I've added this case to my list of scripts to work on. I will get a video out covering it this month. Sounds very interesting.

[@riversong6216]

I remember when Mike seemed a little embarrassed to say, "cause I love ya...," but now he says it with confidence. 🙃 So sweet! We all love you too Mike!

[@matthewcarter2639]

Right!!!

[@NajwyzszaKaplanka]

Yeah! Ive noticed it too! :-D

[@dennyhooper8987]

Spot on, when i’m having a rough day,listening to Mike always makes it less difficult.

[@LadyLsound]

This episode is quite different to me, as Mike is much more opinionated compared from before. I thought It used to be more facts and figures with a slight thrown wonderful opinion, but this time it's a narrative as if he was right there! haha ! Its different...

[@phyllisholt5005]

Couldn't agree more. Mike does a fabulous job. He has sensitivity, wit, charm, great sense of humour. Why I watch that chapter! Not to mention he has an honest take and delivery on what happened.

[@ValouQc]

I was having an ordinary lonely day but once I heard « Hey you! » it made my heart smile and I’m happy you’re there!

[@alexafelix2877]

Brought a little tear to my eye. I feel like Mike is all our best friend.

[@taz454]

It made your heart smile.....and then you hear a horrific story of murder. I get what you mean, though 😉

[@ginaandseason2774]

Always remember you are important. Find joy in yourself and not in circumstances. Happiness is a choice. I wish you happier days and lots of laughter.

[@Schinzo__]

No such thing as a lonely women

[@Always-Hustle]

Have a lonely day, but when a murder show comes on, you're happy? Weirdo

[@lynn5050]

I was teaching in that school, at the time. Don't remember Lucas, as he had been expelled, by then, but Katie was a happy girl, around school. Kim was very quiet. When they "disappeared " together, in the previous November, that should have been the hugest red flag. I mean, they went off camping, in the middle of winter! Mental health services, in this country, are not what they should be and I'm pretty sure that this previous incident was not treated as seriously as it should have been. It was an incredibly tragic outcome to what I'd call a Romeo and Juliet situation. BTW the school was not Spalding Academy, at that time, it was called Sir John Gleed. Spalding does seem ike a sleepy, little market town but, around the same time, a man shot his wife and daughter, outside the local gym. Spalding is on the map, for all the wrong reasons.

[@elizabethforsyth4814]

"Romeo & juliet" really?????

[@TheWoodEyeLyes]

@Elizabeth Forsyth Like a version where Romeo & Juliet killed everybody but themselves

[@SundayMourningLove]

@@elizabethforsyth4814 in a sense, yeah! "Star-crossed lovers", teenagers whose families don't want them together, and it ended in death... Only difference is *whose* death.

[@lynn5050]

@@elizabethforsyth4814 yes, really. A tragedy that should never have happened. Why so critical?

[@lynn5050]

@@TheWoodEyeLyes exactly! Thank you.

[@jennruggles3528]

Thanks! My hubby and I look forward to your videos every week (Tues and Fri). Keep up the great 👍 work. We send our love. Blessings.

[@fulanichild3138]

I hope the surviving sister is ok. She lost her whole family---mom, siblings. Didn't seem like her birth father was in her life.

[@janeeyre1990]

[CW: abuse, the cycle of abuse, toxic families, violence, ableism] My mom was born into an extremely toxic and abusive family. To give just one example, her mother tried to murder her at least twice before she was a teenager. My mom broke the cycle of abuse and no one in her family talks to her. The only time they come around is when my mom is struggling or suffering, so they can gloat. I have always had an extremely close relationship with my mom and thought I was close with other family members and friends until I started having health issues, and then they abandoned me because I wasn't fun anymore, they couldn't "deal" with it, etc. That did almost break me. Losing everyone but my mom when I was sick. But for both me and my mom, losing toxic relationships was a good thing. It is better to be completely alone in the world than connected to people who will only ever take and take and take and never give anything back. This is the best hope for her. She is free.

[@bubblegumbruxa8183]

@@janeeyre1990 im sorry

[@DarkCaseDocumentaries]

@@janeeyre1990 thank you for this insight. Hope you continue to heal and thrive.

[@poopghost9845]

@@janeeyre1990 no violence or ablism there Jesus christ your just weak minded really

[@romeowandrainbow1040]

@@janeeyre1990 I hope you are feeling much more healthy now. Credit to your mum for breaking the cycle

[@alycmatrose1501]

Don't you just love how Mike's confidence has grown over time?...just as much as his shirt collection 😂..... In all seriousness, watching from Kenya, I love the coverage, Always looking forward to the next new video, THUMBS UP!

[@sadiyasaleh233]

Yep you are right. Watching from Nigeria

[@pascaliakaguara2630]

watching from kenya too

[@alycmatrose1501]

Priscilla Kaguara, I thought I was the only Kenyan obsessed with the spooky....😅

[@LynnAgain83]

That's exactly what I was just thinking. If you go back a couple years he's a tad more reserved, still fantastic but his confidence and skill at crime storytelling has absolutely taken off! We're so proud of ya', Mikey! ♡♡♡♡

[@Mayhamsdead]

I don't. Bit of a prick.

[@CoryFiscus]

Mike: "Inside that rucksack were four kitchen knives" also Mike: holds up tree fingers

[@vdigiulio550]

I saw that too!

[@violetmartha916]

😂🤣😂👌🏼

[@lisablock5662]

omg...so Mike made a mistake. So he must be human, unlike those that commit the crimes.

[@Maceman486]

Their last moments of freedom and they choose to have a Twilight Marathon? Clearly they were going for an insanity defense.

[@calmbeforethestormo4136]

My goodness, I found this channel 2 weeks ago! I have been binge watching everyday since. I love true crime and to me this is the best way to get it. No bad actors, no endless conversations that mean nothing, no repeating the facts over and over …I love this show! Thanks 🙏

[@ginaandseason2774]

Mike is the absolute best!! Enjoy

[@augustcannon]

Now we can all give it a goo

[@kurtcurtis2730]

Calm - goooo on , enjoy

[@Julia-uh4li]

Welcome to the family or cult or.....? Zoo? 🙃😆

[@imthedevilkys536]

I'm jealous, you have alot of great stuff to watch for a long time.

[@zarasbazaar]

It's heartbreaking to see the photo of Katy's sweet little face. Poor Katy and Liz.

[@4Moth2Mellow0]

You are who you hang out with. She is not that innocent obviously

[@ladeelibra925]

🙏

[@rimok.2765]

@@4Moth2Mellow0 are you....talking about a little kid that was murdered in her sleep for no reason other than she'd call the police? is this real? it's late but if i'm reading this right you are one sick person.

[@ZoeF.O]

@@rimok.2765 They are probably aware of what you are saying and that is even more scarier than that comment they made like it was nothing.

[@Delicate_Disaster]

This is just so hard to grasp. Looking at Kim and Lucas's photos I just see babies, not violent killers. It's scary. And it's scary how calm and emotionless they were while explaining what they'd done and why.

[@SamLyn]

It’s an incredibly self centered view that they would have outgrown. I love my sister but she isn’t the center of my life… this kid consoled herself by saying “my sister won’t have to worry about me. Or mourn our mom” but she didn’t consider that her sister might have a life independent of both of those traumas as well. Horrible.

[@halaltequila547]

it's mind-boggling how such baby faces are paired to these detached, horrific crimes

[@tonyabrookes9931]

Agreed. It's jarring

[@schrisdellopoulos9244]

As opposed to Mom's monster face? Hey, I'm just sayin. Bride of Frankenstein over there.)

[@cathiefaith1434]

@@schrisdellopoulos9244 what are you trying to say. Kim and her boyfriend are entirely to blame for their actions. You sound ignorant that’s all I’m saying.

[@markmike7933]

@@schrisdellopoulos9244 LOL MAN is she hard to look at. Those Brits aren't no. 1 in the looks dept i'll tell ya. throw in the bad teeth and forget about it

[@markmike7933]

Yeah we have learned from this channel and others that looks can be deceiving. But I bet it would be a little more obvious what he was like if one knew him. Probably a real jerkoff

[@FratterKnox]

It’s absolutely insane that even after the murders they both feel that they did the right thing, clearly some level of sociopathy or psychopathy for both of them. Honestly, the fact they got less than 20 years is absurd, they both should’ve gotten at least 40-50 for something that heinous.

[@fulanichild3138]

I find it a bit odd that they both got the same sentence. She helped planned the crime, but in the end she couldn't murder. He, on the other hand, murdered two people.

[@helenmurphy36]

I disagree, they both need rehabilitation and shouldn’t be locked away for 50 years. Besides it’s a minimum term of 17.5 years.

[@Danny-mg1hu]

In Europe and especially the punishment for teenagers is very lenient compared to the USA. In the USA at least these guys would have gotten a 30 years or more. These two most likely can get back together after they're out. I hope not because that would be really messed up especially for the victims. It's like they got what they wanted in the end.

[@daBEAGLE1017]

a 14 year olds mind is not fully developed and throw in mental illness.....I hope they realize now what they have done. neither child was in their right minds.

[@0912sooli]

Prison will give no reahabiltation especially for children...if they got 50 years and then got released they will be even more sociopathic...they need therapy and medication or life in prison I guess

[@johnr797]

When you ask if it's possible to rehabilitate them, it certainly brings to mind the James Bulger case. I guess only time will tell.

[@sap3338]

This whole situation makes me feel so sick to my stomach! I hope she sees her mother and sister every time she closes her eyes, for the rest of her life!

[@kellykapowski1969]

Hey you! I'm here, and you're my alibi. 😆 Thanks for the show. Muah!

[@thornglitter]

Hahahhaha

[@ThatChapter]

Haha! I’ll be your witness any day

[@asiandrama5890]

Hahaha

[@Ms.Ktty_]

🤦😅

[@keenfar4338]

Hey nice shirt mate 😜

[@teresac3964]

I think it's safe to say that these two will always be dangerous. There's no rehabilitation I don't believe when you are that broken. And I doubt 17 years in prison will change them for the better.

[@ibelieveinyourgalaxy]

Agree. There is a certain callousness that’s unmatched with these two and I think the 17 yrs, it that they’ll even do the full time, will only help them to learn to hide better but not change their selfish nature.

[@yagesh287]

Absolutely agree. They will be around 30 when they are out, and looking at their emotion less attitude, we will probably see another video about them in this channel after 11 years. 17 years is too less a punishment for two pre-meditated murders.

[@lindanicola]

I totally agree. After doing something like that, they are marked. Your mother and sister for crying out loud.

[@eggbirdtherooster]

Long sentences never work..

[@richardclifford003]

@@eggbirdtherooster Yes, but capital punishment will ensure they'll never be a threat in the future. The justice system should treat them as the cancer they are.

[@SomethingWet]

You are my absolute favorite true crime KZbinr. II've seen like almost all of your videos because you're a comforting figure to me, i binged them for a long time. I love that you can even sneak in some humor while being respectful to the victims and i think you're the best example of a person who's into true crime for the right reasons. I like your accent and the way you talk, and of course your storytelling. Your videos are extremely high quality and i really like that you actually show your face when you talk, it's much more enjoyable than true crime videos just filled with stock footage and almost robotic speech. You're a great character and i hope you continue to do what you do. Your way of narrating is always a pleasure and you know how to present these cases without trying to make them "spooky" as if they were horror stories and i think that shows the respect you have for the victims as well, treating them like real people and not horror characters. I also love your choice of music! Just kudos to you over all man.

[@crystalenrriques268]

I personally don't believe there is a way back, they were so young when they planned this, and went thru it but not surprisingly they didn't want to finish the last part... the time they spend locked up is only going to make the more dangerous. I really hope and pray that they both see the light

[@nicolecummings4597]

They have a long life to live still when they’re out. I wouldn’t trust that they’ve changed. Love ya Mike!

[@mikehunt8375]

Prison certainly isnt going to rehabilitate them! I've been to prison, it makes you worse, way worse! You're surrounded by monsters.

[@Andrea1542]

Hell I'm well into middle age and still will have a lot of time to live when these beasts are free. Not a very long sentence at all.

[@Not_Always]

@@Andrea1542 Well you aren't their parents, so I think you'll be ok.

[@calumbutter8959]

My sister worked with one of the Bulger killers. These kids get a hell of a lot of attention and guidence.

[@DemocracyOfficer2485]

Killing them seems reasonable

[@elizabethgrogan8553]

I'm glad you covered this awful case. It made no sense to me at the time. It still doesn't. It's frightening to know that 2 very young people could plot and carry out the murders, with no remorse.

[@primesspct2]

I am sure they felt that no one ever gave a damn about them. Its shocking and awful, yes. But these kids were failed by their own families, in ways that damage their sense of compassion. I think the girl truly felt like they had spared her mom and sister from the pain and heart break of life. She obviously knew that pain, and it had overwhelmed her life . I am not saying I understand, I am saying that in their eyes ( childrens eyes) they had been failed by their family and the system. Children are often unable to see past their own pain. A terribly sad and devastating case, a mother and young daughter gone, and then their lives are gone as well.

[@mariakelly90210]

@@primesspct2 Seriously?

[@manuxx3543]

If they almost carry out a suicide they already have little to loose, and if they think there is a killable cause of that misery, just by vengence with enough gut and hate suicide can turn to murder pretty quick

[@DeliriousSquid]

@@primesspct2 you're condoning what they've done. I grew up in foster care, and whilst i did, i was raped, beaten, left in a small room with a bucket to do my business in. My family, although dysfunctional, still love me, and i them. What she did was straight up evil, there is no excuse for it. So her family life may have been difficult, but so were most peoples, doesn't give us a right to kill people. Seriously mate.

[@daviddavidson1412]

@@primesspct2 Lol man stop with the excuses. Most people that feel nobody cares about them usually kill themselves not innocent people that didn't do anything to them. There's also kids in WAY worse situations that don't turn to murder. These "kids" we're clearly messed up in the head.

[@chaoticlizsama]

Mike's videos never get old. Great research and always so well presented, with that touch of Mike humor of course 😂 Thanks for the new video every week.

[@juliadoherty83]

Horrific. I'm lost for words. Apart from to say that they shouldn't ever be released. Thank you for all of your video's. Have a good day. From a fellow Irish, though I live in England.

[@andicrossley6562]

Of all the dark love stories to choose from, they chose Twilight? That's a tragedy in itself 🙃

[@ROT4RYfc3s]

Anyone who likes that stupid series needs some serious help

[@saf1999]

Lmao

[@michiganpride389]

You win

[@wondernore]

No one's introduced their kids to NBK💞🙌🏾

[@stupid4867]

It makes us cringe about as hard as their story, so it’s fitting

[@cuiretvanille8426]

The truly frightening thing about this is that once they are released they will be able to change their names and relocate. So no one will ever know what they did unless they commit other crimes in the future.

[@mickjones55]

Bodycam clip during the intro music... it's gonna be a belter again!

[@maryfuller8598]

Hey Mike! This is Mary! Please consider doing an 'ol video' covering the murder of Walter Scott, a would be Superstar singer here in the Midwest, had he not sang about a Cheater, surrounded himself by cheaters, and been a cheater himself. Gripping story...

[@annegoodreau4925]

Both families threw all their belongings out except a mattress. It reminds me of when my son was on drugs and the standard advice I got was that I should throw him out of the house. These are one-size-fits-all, "There, that'll show 'em" answers. I never threw my son out because I knew it would confirm to him the one thing he was most afraid of, and it confirmed to Kim what she was most afraid of: that her mother didn't love her. After that there's nothing left for kids to listen to or care about in their families. It is all but impossible to figure out what each teen needs, but these methods that say, "I loathe you. You disgust me." are really not it.

[@jenniferjones8453]

I have 3 boys and I don't think I could ever kick them out or turn them away either. I've always said the house I live in will have a extra bedroom in case my kids ever need to come home for any reason. Idc if they're 45 they can always live with me

[@lornarettig3215]

Good for you, Anne. Parents always deny they have favourites, their children always know who is the favourite and who isn‘t, and it‘s horrible. I love that you consistently showed your son that you love him and tried to help. No-one is saying that Kim‘s mother deserved to be murdered. But being so ignored in favour of a sibling absolutely sucks.

[@aurelienlux]

Yeah I agree, honestly those methods are closer to abuse than anything else. And in this case I think it's clear it made things way worse. Especially with kids who had already suffered some forms of emotional and/or physical abuse. I don't understand how anyone could think that this would help. Especially with teenagers that young who are still very emotionally sensitive and whose brains are still far from fully developed.

[@i-vlog1994]

Allowing a teenager to live in your house while they steal from and abuse you isn't doing them or you any favors. All your doing is showing them that their actions don't have consequences. A lot of times jail and or prison is the only way for addicts to string together any sort of clean time. they'll introduce them to suboxone and rehab programs that will give them the tools to stay sober. I know you think your helping but your doing the opposite by allowing an addict to live with you. This is coming from someone who went to prison and that made me realize that was going to be my life If I didn't straighten up. I now have a 4 year old daughter and haven't done drugs in 7 years. I wouldn't allow her to live with me while she was an addict if she took that path. Every single rehab I've ever been to and every addict I have ever ment has said that did nothing but help further progress their disease

[@ruthrandall2451]

I have three girls and one boy. My two eldest girls went to university, my boy is a whole different kettle of fish. At 15 he was smoking weed, drinking, stealing from me, hiding out in my shed in the winter to do all this. Everyone said I needed to kick him out. My oldest daughter still doesn't speak to me because of his disgraceful behaviour. I'm a single mum and have done everything for my four, I have a little one with downs syndrome who is younger than my boy. All I ever thought was someone needs to be there for him, when everyone else gave up on him, he still had a lovely heart and although I wanted to throttle him I knew someone needed to be there. He's 19 now and on the other side, so much more to go into but he goes to the gym every day. Still free loading, but hey... 😉

[@raechelgrantham8134]

I will never grow tired of your content. You manage to tell these stories with humor while also being respectful to the victims and their families.

[@AParallelReality]

That Chapter and True Crime Loser are the only 2 channels I’ve found that can pull it off and makes them a joy to watch

[@jenniferg.3857]

Totally agree 👍

[@saf1999]

💯

[@milkyo1206]

@@AParallelReality try deadbug

[@alliekattlopez5535]

@@milkyo1206 I love him. He just uploaded today. 👊🏼

[@blyssedbe]

As someone who has been through family trauma (verbally and psychologically abusive father) and has battled chronic depression for over half my life with bouts of suicidality…having been in that deep dark place, I can almost understand Kim - the way she felt peaceful about how her mother and sister wouldn’t have to worry about her anymore. When you feel you have nothing left to lose, the consequences of reckless actions lose their hold. Depression Brain is a force to be reckoned with. For that reason, I don’t think Kim was so much a sociopath/psychopath as a tragedy. She latched onto the only type of person that could successfully convince her that he knew her pain - someone just as broken. I’ve been there. Thankfully, I got help. As for Liz… How crazy it is to have the courage to leave an abusive situation and raise your daughters in a safe environment, only to have your own spawn plot to end your life. Just awful.

[@Euntooda]

I just wanted to say you did great job on the 2 chapters this week, even more so. Nanbro, the book review was so hilarious. And the twilight kids, the way you sat and told the story felt like extra relaxing for some reason, lol. I really appreciate what you do. Looking forward to next chapter.

[@lisahinton9682]

I remember when, as an adult, I was not afraid of teenagers. Now? Terrified. There are too many stories similar to this one with these deranged, pathological monsters that are all of 15 years of age. Another great video, Mike. Thanks for telling it in a respectful way to the victims, as you always do. We all luv ya, too!

[@TheDramacist]

These two in particular had personality disorders that needed therapy. Something many countries fail to identify or provide. The kids usually just get punished for bad behaviour which ofc doesnt work on them. It would work on a normal person. Most plp with personality disorders really show as teenagers as the hormones rage, but they're actually born that way. Normally they get overlooked as just problematic kids

[@danielbradley5255]

When you were an adult you didn't fear them, so are you no longer an adult?

[@imlistening1137]

Please don’t be afraid of the 99% who are awesome! Well, most are awesome… a few have some hormone surges that make them sassy, but not many are like this!

[@LynnAgain83]

@@TheDramacist RIGHT. Sad the mother chose to ship Kim off to foster care instead of sticking by her through therapy.. Just my 2 cents. I can't say what home life was like but I would never. Doesn't excuse what they did....it's just sad AF

[@LynnAgain83]

@@imlistening1137 Ehhh, maybe. It's def good to have hope for our future. I guess living in inner city low income housing has made me a wee bit jaded but others here give me hope. So, you never know! ♡ Children here have very little to no parental supervision Many of them are criminals by the time they reach teens. Sad, sad, sad. 😞

[@RooBot]

Teen lovers are disturbing regardless of murdering, I was a teen lover once so I speak from experience.

[@erickiyoshiphillips2323]

Right it's scary

[@markmike7933]

That's the most INSANE thing I've ever heard. Maybe you were disturbed man but I wasn't. Neither were my girlfriends. We had a lot of good times. And nothing disturbing was done or happened.

[@rustinstardust2094]

I always find hearing "teen" and "lover" in the same sentence is in itself disturbing. But yeah, I found them disturbing even when I was a teen myself.

[@RooBot]

@@markmike7933 - I was being SILLY (as we're doing caps, apparently) apart from the murdering part. As you were. Edit - You need to listen to more things, if that's the case.

[@deniseroe5891]

I was a teen in love once, have been married to him for 43 years. It is not always bad.

[@WeBeatMedicare6969]

5 years from now she gonna be like “I killed my family for that dork?”

[@amberimmel1887]

I love Mike and his wonderful voice lol I listen to him when I fall asleep almost every single night. His voice is like a lullaby... Please don't ever stop telling us crazy stories, we all love you mike!!💘

[@mattilove6028]

The older I’ve gotten the more murder sentence of 15 years to 25 years seems way to little amount of time. Even when someone is young enough that the time is not a life sentence....there should be some kinds of save guards relating to the specific nature of their crime.

[@myfaveyoutube]

on the other hand, "20 life sentences" is hardly comfort to family of victims. In other countries we don't understand why the United States does that thing.

[@4Mr.Crowley2]

@@myfaveyoutube . Maybe not, but releasing sociopaths back into society at relatively young ages is *dangerous for the community.* Therefore we follow stricter sentencing procedures because perps of certain types of crimes (especially sociopathic murderers for example) present ongoing issues. The old and now outdated psychology that undergirded the “rehabilitation” idea - a rose-coloured-glasses idea popularized in the 1960s and very outdated now - has been losing support for decades.

[@princemononoke2477]

Honestly they'll probably be in for a lot longer. Often times the original sentence will get close to finishing, the person will be re-evaluated, and if they're found to still be dangerous they'll have the sentence extended.

[@_HimToo]

A: They obviously never planned to off themselves, otherwise they wouldn't have had to kill her sister to prevent her going to cops! B: It's insane to kill someone because they'll call the cops or cuz they're a witness, when ur crime is something you're definitely gonna be caught for anyway... even more so when you literally make zero effort to prevent being caught or minimizing evidence. They coulda just tied the sister up or whatever. Totally senseless crimes! No point whatsoever.

[@marysloane1709]

She said it was out of jealousy.

[@daijme]

Ofcourse they would kill the only witness..

[@4Mr.Crowley2]

@@daijme The poster is correct however - that may have been her excuse later but it was born of jealousy and a desire to get her out of the way. They made zero effort to conceal their crime so the idea that they were eliminating a “witness” is ludicrous.

[@mallorycannon3011]

Wow both great points but thanks for pointing out A! Very smart.

[@irisu-edits]

Kim kept saying her mum liked Katie more - I feel like there is jealousy there from Kim that could be more a motive that she might be too proud to admit

[@bettyannflaggriggins8143]

Mike you dont seem to tell people that you love them just willy nilly so thank you. I lost my only child recently and every little bit helps.

[@MikeRetroModz]

The fact that the parents wanted to kick the kids out when they were 14 years old just shows that they had no grips on their kids whatsoever.

[@jameskennedy721]

OR there was a vague sense of the danger brewing ...

[@TallulahFoxxx]

That’s not what was meant by that part. The parents removed all their possessions from their bedrooms - it was a punishment, yes, but also to prevent them from hiding things they shouldn’t have. At 14, you’re still technically a kid, but you’re not a baby… Parenting isn’t easy and by age 14, most parents don’t have the “grip” on their kids as they think they do 😌 they’re at that age where they’re making their own decisions AND their own mistakes, which is essential for adult development. It’s why I don’t believe in parents “banning” their kids from dating until they’re 18 🙄 Most of us get our hearts broken/realise that partners aren’t always truthful or genuine as teenagers - we’re much less likely to be quite as naive when we’re 18, at college and independent. The point is, you can be a good parent and still have a kid that doesn’t want to listen, and is troubled. I was one of them. I had issues, and my mum did the best she could. She didn’t do anything _wrong_ but I was excellent at manipulating people and lying to her face. Her flaw was that she wanted to trust me because she loved me. I wasn’t absolutely terrible, and I grew out of it thankfully 😂👌🏻 however, I had her at her wits end on many occasions. She would never have thrown me out but it doesn’t shock me that other parents have been pushed to their limit and threatened to do it. “Out of control” teenagers aren’t always a product of their parents.

[@st-ib9xl]

Mike you are a national treasure and should be protected at all cost.

[@WeBeatMedicare6969]

This saying is already getting old..it is literally stupid

[@st-ib9xl]

@@WeBeatMedicare6969 sounds like someone's mom didn't kiss you good night huh?

[@superhotnutjob]

Every time I see anything about "teen killers" I always think that I'm about to hear about some real losers.

[@aj3431]

His profile picture claims he is Batman. You hit the nail on the head.

[@TheStar798]

Ditto 😂

[@whythenumber]

And you're absolutely right

[@lavernedefazio3845]

Mike, I love your KZbin channel! I just can't stop myself from watching That Chapter! You obviously research each and every episode. paying meticulous attention to even the smallest detail because I've given them all a major goo! Thank you for all of your hard work Mike and I'll see you real soon in the next one!

[@renee1961]

My God, they are Horrifying!!! Rest in Peace Liz,and Katie

[@mumtazamiri6409]

You are one of my favorite TC KZbinr. I love how you recount these cases by sticking to the facts, adding no fancy frills or bows, respectful of everyone including us, your audience and with a subtle sense of humor. No false lowering of the voice, no creating suspense after every 2-3 sentences, no false crying and getting all emotional, no puppies and babies popping up, etc. You ze bezt Mike ! Love from Brazil 🇧🇷

[@vanloojan4206]

I mean, is it subtle? He's pretty hilarious considering the subject matter. Hahahah. Like you said though, there's nothing but respect there. The balance definitely makes this channel one-of-a-kind.

[@a.patrickkilkenny3036]

Mike tells the stories like the old irish playwriters like samuel Beckett i feel ,tragedy mixed with humour, its part of our DNA.😉🇮🇪🇮🇪

[@davidmetzler6670]

Stop sucking up haha it was a decent video but come on

[@eemilybrowniemix]

@Van Loojan I agree!!! The perfect balance.

[@vanloojan4206]

It's not sucking up. It's called support, Sir. For those of us that can't pitch on Patreon, we leave comments that we support the work and would like him to continue making it 👍

[@beckyvl134]

The fact that they are all gone but these two will be freed 10 years later makes me sick to my stomach.

[@schrisdellopoulos9244]

England doesn't put kids away for life in a cage like America does. Get over it. Which is more civilized? We'll answer. England.

[@dannymurray9047]

I know it's a tragic story but I literally spat my tea out laughing when he played that little McDonald's whistle 🤣

[@TouhouNazrin]

This story is very similar to that of a girl I knew and her boyfriend, who killed her grandparents and tried to kill the boyfriend's parents as well. Cassie Bjorge and Johnny Rider. After killing the grandparents they sealed off the room that had the bodies and proceeded to stay in the house for days and even hosted a party.

[@deniseroe5891]

No I don’t really think they can become “normal”, they weren’t normal to begin with. I remember how emotional teen crushes are, I was there once a long time ago. I was devastated when my first boyfriend broke up with me, thought my life was over at 16. But I never considered killing anyone. BTW, the second guy I dated has been my husband for the last 43 years and counting. Senseless murder of two lovely people for no reason what so ever.

[@ExarchGaming]

Oh there was a reason for it, we just don't consider it valid, or at least some of us. Lukas's issues weren't well discussed here, but Kim's were, and she dealt with significant mental illness, possibly with the most comparable murder in the UK being Mary Bell's murder of those two little boys in 1968. She was released and treatment back then compared to now was much different. She appears to not have reoffended despite t he heinous nature of her crime at 10 years old. There is nothing that says that Kim is untreatable, she just had an absolutely fucked life as a child, to the point where her older sister was not surprised at the remorseless nature of her participation, towards her mother. Showing that she was well aware of the issues between Kim and her mom. to not be shocked that your little sister has no remorse for killing your mother is just absolutely nuts, was kim right about her mother and the blatant favoritism towards katie? where your 13-14 year old daughter attempts to end her own life, and you don't have her admitted to be treated for severe depression? What the hell was going on in that home. there was a perfect storm of factors here that any one of them had they been caught would have changed the likelyhood of this happening. She may have never even met Lukas, if say she had been appropriately treated for you know...trying to end her own life at 12-13-14 years old? WTF.

[@tan4uk69]

Wow, I'd love to find someone I could be around for 43 years! Congratulations :)

[@walkersmith9009]

There was indeed a reason for them to kill. Wanted to? Independence? Drugs? Personal af tho

[@dannywilliams6290]

You married ur second boyfriend in ur life and had a successful marriage?? That's amazing, congratulations!

[@deniseroe5891]

@@dannywilliams6290 thank you. I am proud of us.

[@dickyalbar]

It's heartbreaking to see the photo of Katy's sweet little face. Poor Katy and Liz. Mike is probably one of the best true crime story Tellers even if he had no visuals just by the way he explains things you would have a visual in your head

[@teslagirl1]

Right...look at that little face and you could almost see everything that is missing in her sister. Katy's gaze is direct, frank, gentle...her sister looks like a doll, with a doll's lifeless gaze. Even in photos where she's supposed to be happy, Kim's eyes are kind of...empty. I know a photo can't tell you everything, but still...

[@conorlynch1272]

You know that it's going to be bad when the pictures of the children are not blurred out, it's even worse when it happens just because the children are in the way wrong place at the wrong time.

[@caseyminett7394]

All because of her sisters vile jealousy 😓

[@1017BrickSquaddd22]

people post this so mike will do this case, i just heard about it and theres a lot of footage online of the killer in court so it fits perfect for mike format, the CASE OF Matthew Cecchi, he went into a public bathroom while his aunt stood outside, and someone killed him inside, the aunt saw several men go in and out of that restroom, and what seemed like 4ever, she finally went in to check on him and he was dead, i dont wanna look more into the case because i want mike to cover it so i can watch his vid the first time i really check it out

[@berylrobinson1129]

It is a horrible story. I feel terrible for the sister and the mother also. You never know about kids these days. They can be as dangerous as psychopathic adults. You have to watch everyone.

[@anovemberstar]

sophie Elliot -stabbed 216 times while her mother was on the outside of the door desperately trying to get in. You cant begin to imagine the hell and trauma that poor mum went through :(

[@sarahb2618]

You're killing it, Mike. Don't stop. 😳😂 You've found your niche. Long time listener, first time caller.

[@dunndorr5651]

Bro, your cool jokes and the way you don't try to make yourself sound all creepy/cringy like all the other crime channels out there. You being yourself and simply adding your commentary where you are just being you, and not trying to make it creepy. That's why you're by far my favorite True Crime YTber. I love it so much man. Never change, keep being yourself. I will always watch your videos as soon as they come out. I've gotta be one of the biggest fans of this channel. Much love Mike. Fa sho. You will always have a lifelong fan

[@187mrsmith]

Mike is probably one of the best true crime story Tellers even if he had no visuals just by the way he explains things you would have a visual in your head

[@giggleweed]

Mike and MrBallen are the best

[@nancyneyedly4587]

@@giggleweed I prefer MrBallen, I find Mike to be a bit disrespectful to the subject matter sometimes.

[@giggleweed]

@@nancyneyedly4587 I can see that, I still love them both though. No one can pull me in to a story like MrBallen tho.

[@Charlotte---]

@@nancyneyedly4587 Nothing remotely disrespectful about Mike. He is a fantastic storyteller , perhaps you don't understand/get his Irish delivery.

[@nah656]

@@nancyneyedly4587 right? He’s so upbeat and tells cringe jokes while talking about horrific crimes. His old videos were better and easier to follow cause he wasn’t so focused on trying to be “funny”

[@melissaward9031]

Watching you is addictive Mike, you've got the perfect personality for doing what you do! Keep hosting these vids and I will keep watching them all with a thumbs up!

[@HaleiwaGirl808]

You’re having a bad day… You go on KZbin trying to find a video to cheer you up and you see Mike… You click on his video and you get “let’s give it a goo…” And all is right with the world lol

[@norriskp]

Everybody gathering around for Friday story-time by Mike - Yay! We're so excited to give it a goo! Love ya, Mike! (Nice shirt too, btw)

[@TheKatiewindow]

Maaaan I was checking his channel all day at work, like "It's Friday, Mike!!! Wheres the video?!" Lmao😂

[@builtinsuspicion]

What an interesting tale they tell. If it took about 10 minutes for Liz to die & she was screaming for even 1 -2 minutes of that time while being stabbed, why didn't Katie wake up? How did Kim get covered in so much blood that she had to take a bath with Lucas if she had no part in the murders? As you can see I have a few issues with their explanation of what took place. I am more inclined to believe that while Lucas killed Liz, Kim killed Katie . As for teen killers being rehabilitated, history shows that this happens once in a blue moon, all too often once released they go on to commit more murders.

[@boathousejoed9005]

But perhaps they commit another crime to be sent back to the place they've been conditioned to see as home.Prison,even without violence causes serious mental harm.And there is no effort to rehabilitate anyone.

[@jenniferjones8453]

It happened with Mary Bell. She was 10 when she killed 2 little boys. That poor girl had a absolutely horrific upbringing. Her mom started selling her out for sex starting at 4yo. Her mom made it clear she didn't want her or love her. But she was able to grow up and live a normal life and even had a daughter of her own.

[@armcollector5856]

@@boathousejoed9005 exactly... and they know prison is designed that way just to keep the revolving door going pretty sad... they also don't have no interest in rehabilitating anyone & they know it... hope u have a wonderful weekend!!

[@montanaelkwhisperer1744]

I'd be really impressed if you can name one underage killer that was caught, released, and killed again.

[@ExarchGaming]

@@montanaelkwhisperer1744 Same....and can they do it without googling a specific wildcard. lol

[@waytansea]

I could listen to Mike reading the entire twilight saga and it would even be interesting. We love you Mike, thank you for being as you are 🖤

[@1957jmhiser1]

You can never go back to 'normal' after acts like that. Because they're not normal. We love ya too, Mike. Keep the stories rollin along.

[@janicekamalski5938]

How magnanimous of Kim to spare her mum and sister the pain of worrying about her. She's awesome.

[@deniserossiter1059]

Right? Isn’t she so thoughtful?? 😱

[@BulkernatorKerb]

Her mum was a child abuser and her abusive upbringing was the price factor in this crime occurring.

[@ZoeF.O]

I also wanted to pay her respect for thinking so gently about her mom and sister's fragility and their mind process. She's a real sunshine.

[@littleblackpistol]

Her mum was right not to like her. She was never likeable. Likely the traits that caused her to murder were there from early childhood. Likely inherited from her dad, the psycho wife batterer. Abortion is a gift, more people should have them.

[@janicekamalski5938]

@@littleblackpistol lol

[@jenniferjones8453]

I absolutely love how Mike uses a plain black background instead of having a bunch of stuff behind him. You're awful! Lmao that little McDonald's whistle got me. Omg I snorted laughing

[@taras6806]

Likewise. ('I'm lovin' it'....) :)

[@jenniferjones8453]

@@taras6806 lmao right? I'm like deep into this story then out of nowhere "do do do do doooo"

[@taras6806]

@@jenniferjones8453, I chuckled too. That's our Mike :)

[@taras6806]

@@jenniferjones8453 New dingle there :)

[@ghostchick5275]

I think there MAY be some hope for Kim with some seriously intense counselling. Emphasis on MAY. I think she needs to believe that she did her mom and sister some kind of favour in order to live with herself and what she did. Lucas, on the other hand, is a stone-cold psychopath and I believe he should never be outside of a prison ever again. This is a guy who at 13 was beating and controlling his girlfriend and didn't even hesitate to commit double murder. At least Kim couldn't go through with the killing. He had no qualms about doing it. I don't have much faith that he can ever be rehabilitated for that reason. But that's just me.

[@TS-zl3rc]

RIP Liz & Katie. Mike find your stories sometimes unbelievable what human beings can do do Loveones. Hi from Australia

[@petahoee8281]

I feel like sometimes you could do everything right as a parent and still have the child turn into a little monster, but I'm not a parent so what could I know

[@tonyabrookes9931]

As a parent, I personally don't buy into that line of thinking. It's all about what we do or don't do all along the way. Ultimately we can't control who they are inside, their true nature - we can only observe, guide & nurture what's already there - but it is up to us to pay attention and notice when things are not okay with our kids. It's our responsibility to intervene & get them help if they are struggling or going down a dark path. I think a lot of otherwise "nice" parents don't pay attention or take their kids seriously when there are signs of trouble

[@tallgrasslanestitches6635]

I think that’s possible, but extremely rare, and even when a person is born sociopathic, it doesn’t mean they’ll end up committing crimes.

[@maritapramalte3104]

I seen parents who treated their children like dirt, but was loved by children unconditionally and they grove up really nice people. In same time kids who were "understood" came out absolute morans.

[@00muinamir]

There's no such thing as objectively "doing everything right". Different kids will react differently to the same circumstances.

[@susiefoxy8130]

@@tonyabrookes9931 my older sister and I couldn’t be any more different, same parents, brought up the same, if anything she was favoured by my mother, I won’t bore you, but she’s a thief, and her 3 kids have all been in trouble with the law…don’t see her anymore thank god!

[@ch3wt0y]

always brightens my mood when you post! happy friday mike. much love from texas💖

[@ThatChapter]

Thank you so much Kaylee!

[@shards0fwords]

Love from San Antonio, Kaylee. Hope you’re staying cool & hydrated (:

[@ingesexton811]

Lol stories of murder brightens your mood ey? Lol jk I totally get it! I love it when he posts too… even though that means people are dead..l

[@JillBallard639]

Too hot here in Texas!

[@taz454]

It brightens my mood too, until I hear the story of tragic murder....it's kind of a downer 👍.

[@mercielynmarmolejos7888]

I am a middle sister too and we all think moms love the oldest and youngest more but we don’t go around killing our moms and younger siblings.

[@kimmoran4437]

Moms love all their children equally. ☺️

[@sabinewren6588]

That insert of the whistling the McD's theme had me on the floor laughing

[@CowboyredPedro]

Depressed teenager who wants to commit suicide decides instead to have her boyfriend kill both her mom and her sister, simply because she would call the police on them, and then both of them have no remorse afterwards, and don’t feel sorry for their actions in anyway. This is a really sad case.

[@buffirice2265]

They say they murdered her because she would call the police but they sat in that house waiting on the cops to show up so that logic doesnt seem true to me

[@robwebb3882]

I mean you’ve guessed there is no remorse, it could be really eating them up on the inside. Something like this 100% would. Especially when they have 4 walls to look at everyday. They were defo failed by the system and their families.

[@cf3208]

@@robwebb3882 that's no excuse for killing the mom and little sister. They knew precisely what they were doing and planned it for days prior. It doesn't matter if the system failed them because they're still 2 little pieces of evil shits. I've known a handful of people who the "system failed" and they didn't turn out to be murderers, and they were abused like crazy too. These 2 are just evil people for whatever reasons and that's all there is to it. I mean they killed the little sister, they said because they didn't want her to call the police but obviously it was because Kim was jealous of the relationship between her and their mom like she said before. That little girl was abused just like Kim, and ended up being murdered, not the murderer.

[@klass_1221]

This sends a bad message to future teens committing murder. Hey, you're still young and impressionable. So go on ahead and murder. You don't have to worry about life sentencing or death penalty. See you out in the real world in your 30's. Shake my head.

[@gravityslave6277]

I believe the suicide was after the fact.

[@oldetymebiker2405]

10 years, two murders. Yep, that makes sense. These "kids" can't be rehabilitated. You can have all the psychoanalysis in the world, The cold, emotionless voices describing those brutal murders and his response to the reason for killing the little girl... completely dead inside and he will not hesitate in killing again.

[@williamhaynes2392]

European countries have way different laws than we do in America!

[@prettyokandy230]

Yep just look at prisoners per capita, EU is at about 70 per 100k and USA about 640 per 100k.

[@thecelt4807]

modern world but still tigers in the grass ....and always will be

[@jgw9990]

@@prettyokandy230 Just because you let out the scum early doesn't mean the crimes go away. I feel sorry for victims in the EU that see their attackers go free

[@prettyokandy230]

your country has the highest amount of prisoners in the world, both in absolute numbers as well as percentage wise ( land of the free my ass). we have MUCH lower murder and violent crime rates than the USA, in the case of some countries as much as 10 times lower. we are closing prisons because we don't have the criminals to lock up, you're building new ones...

[@ImTheKatBurglar]

@thatchapter Mike you really are the best. I love watching your videos, love the sarcasm and I want to say thank you for using a black background instead of white. Since you do I can watch your videos late at night without disturbing my husband, your voice doesn't disturb him either, he actually likes your videos but isn't into true crime. Thanks for always having subtitles on too!

[@ObiJuan86]

17yrs for brutal, calculated, premeditated cold-blooded murder. Fascinatingly sad & pathetic.

[@jokergordon8446]

You need to cover the story of "The boys on the tracks". Tons of crazy twist and turns. Keep up the great work.

[@Viper-py4pg]

Is that the one in Arkansas that seems to be a messy cover up? Googled the boys on the tracks but I'd like to be sure!

[@Julia-uh4li]

@@Viper-py4pg Yeah, I'm thinking it's the one your thinking about with drugs, money laundering and to top it off Governor Bill Clinton.

[@JustMe-on9ou]

Has alot to do with the "clintons"...watched the documentary..it was fascinating

[@nico348]

that was a huge clinton conspiracy for trading guns to rebels for cocaine.

[@jokergordon8446]

@@Viper-py4pg yes, that's the one.

[@dannydrew3685]

Can they “become a normal person again?” I question if they were in the first place. They both needed medical and mental health care that they didn’t get. I hope besides “being behind bars” they both get extensive medical and mental health many hours a day, every day until they do get out!

[@BlueAmerican26]

There's no turning back after what theyve done. Theyre fucked mentally.

[@jonasirw1]

Excellent. Netflix would have turned this is to a 3 hour documentary and repeated the same thing over and over again.. Mike gets the story across in 23 minute w/ zero fluff

[@Pineapplepgh1]

I don't think there would ever be enough therapy or rehabilitation to make either of these two safe to be in society.

[@taz454]

A fine example of a violent broken home having a lasting effect on the children. Childhood shapes us all...the unlucky ones almost don't have a chance.

[@cathiefaith1434]

That’s doesn’t justify what they did or give any excuse for what they did. I grew up in a bad environment and didn’t kill anyone bc I was being mistreated.

[@henriklarssen1331]

@@cathiefaith1434 Yeah i dont buy that argument either, sure a tiny amount of people who grow up in such envoirements are damaged beyond repair, but most of them end up being as normal as everyone else.

[@erickiyoshiphillips2323]

@@henriklarssen1331 me either

[@chelseajoseph3079]

Those are entitled asshole. I’m from Haiti born and raised. I went through hell. I will never hurt a fly.

[@lindasentek9795]

If you already have a a fu… brain bad up bringing is just the icing on the cake.

[@amye4131]

17 1/2 years? That's it?!? Taking away someones life should merit life in prison. The response of the daughter of no remorse is chilling.

[@Adiscretefirm]

Take a life, forfeit your own, anything less is getting away with murder.

[@peony4175]

Thats the UK justice system for ya! They may even get day-leave from prison!

[@markmike7933]

Shouldn't be just one thing that determines the sentence. Taking away one's life in a fistfight is a lot different than taking it away in a premeditated murder. And even in a premeditated murder, you just don't throw away 2 kids forever even if they have murdered. Or maybe you do. You give them 20 years minimum and then take it from there after psych evaluations etc. I'm a conservative and I am shocked at how many, even liberals, think throw away the key is the best thing. I won't lie. If it was MY family members, i'd want them to DIE. But the law shouldn't be made based on my immediate emotions. I'm not ruling out life, just throwing a chance for redemption out there. We all deserve a 2nd chance IF WE EARN IT. have a good one

[@tracyd693]

Well that's the European justice system. It's a huge joke and a slap in the face of the victims.

[@Scrap_Goblin]

@@markmike7933 I mean I'd be waiting for them when they get out and good luck figuring out where they went

[@DarkCaseDocumentaries]

I'm working on a video covering this case right now... truly one of the darkest things I've ever researched. So much went wrong here.

[@banatraditionalkontumclass104]

Wow I'm in a small ethic minority village in Vietnam watching these videos. Then I hear the name of the town I was born in , in the UK. Spalding !!!! Shocked me to hear. Its a small town and crazy shit goes on there . Great content. I love my mealtimes with your videos Mike. Thanks brother. Be safe.💚🇻🇳

[@seandelap8587]

If you are capable of commiting crimes of that magnitude in the first place you generally would be incapable of having any remorse for what you did.

[@oldmandoinghighkicksonlyin1368]

Everyone is redeemable, says the Catholic Church. That's because they have to believe all their lil-boy-bum-sniffing priests can get into Heaven's night club.

[@chantellechojnacka]

Thanks Mike. You’ve come such a long way. Love the structure, the editing, storytelling and the ‘Mike’ness’ Keep em coming!

[@sandraknight4751]

So we can give it a gooo

[@ABeautfulMess]

You are so amazing!!! Sympathy and Charm all in one..and still very respectful

[@paul2081ok]

Mike, Thanks for premiering the abuse that families experience because it helps educate folks that live on the edge, Cheers