Thatcher was not good for Britain | Thatcher Debate | Oxford Union

Emotions ran high after the Iron Lady's passing, and there wasn't a news pundit that successfully avoided the word 'divisive' that week, but were the Thatcherite upheavals necessary and inevitable?
Student Ben Nabarro gives his speech in opposition of the motion.
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[@shaneakhan3509]

Nice to see a rich kid care about the poor. Wonder if his words will be action in the future

[@ramsesdie9999]

It will never be. It is just a hobby for him. A way to get applauses attacking a woman that helped grow the very high class this kid belongs to. Is truly disgusting thinking about it.

[@dl4350]

nothing funnier than young, rich, patronising, white ppl tho

[@Station9.75]

@@dl4350 - Yeah. Let’s drag race into it...

[@dl4350]

@@Station9.75 bruh, Im white

[@Station9.75]

@@dl4350 - So?

[@Koevid-IVFPandemieAngstPornoNO]

Destroying middle class is never a good thing.

[@jacklester8141]

You cant talk about Margaret Thatcher without talking about 1970's

[@emperorpicard6474]

@BestCanKeanRob2 Its not your milk! Why do you think it belongs to you? Its a little like complaining that someone who has paid to charity for years and then stopped has stolen the charities money.

[@insomniacbritgaming1632]

@CLM1978 it was the best one... the unions were constantly striking, then complained at Thatcher for taking away their power from destroying the country further... Unions were like a child, punching another child, then crying when the child punched back!!

[@Kai555100]

@@alex21123 Not really the 70s were also a very difficult time for west Germany and france who did not restructured their economy

[@elmeromogollon]

@@insomniacbritgaming1632 I live in costa rica and that is what is happening right now, sometimes even hospital workers go on strike and they did it once during the pandemic.

[@gruweldaad]

@@Kai555100 Both Germany and France have economies that are extremely hostile to business founders, and they’re losing their most intelligent young people to countries in the EU and the US and UK that have less hostile business laws. They could use some restructuring.

[@GeishaEntertainer]

I love Margaret Thatcher's personality and style of speaking and presenting herself. I'd say the same for Ronald Reagan. They were both possibly the best public speakers of all time. But I agree, Thatcherism/Reaganism was generally not good for middle class/working class people and bad for society in general as a result. Their policies encouraged consumerism/materialism and corporate profitability at all costs, which does not benefit human beings.

[@Thesaeed23]

Beautifully argued and concisely put. I lived through the Thatcher era, and viewed her with awe as I was taught by men who admired her to the point of being in love with her. Thatcher smashed a concrete ceiling and was a Very Great Politician who left an ideology and two child converts - Tony Blair and Gordon Brown. But her policies were very damaging to our Country and the way she ruthless implemented them increased the gap between the Rich and Poor substantially. She never empathised with or understood the plight of the poor. She destroyed the manufacturing sector in this country and she bossed and bullied her way in Government. And so, they booted her out; the very same men she appointed. Enoch Powell once said 'all political careers end ultimately in failure'. Alas so true! Even the Greatest Prime Minister this nation has ever had, Clement Attlee, has blood on his hands. He gave India its Independence without an exit strategy and One Million Indians died during partition. There are no Great Leaders. All human beings are deeply flawed.

[@harryburrows2112]

Well said sir

[@CharlesWilliams-jf2nb]

Damaging to the country? She got rid of old dinosaur industries that had already been ruined by the previous Labour government who were the puppets of the trade unions. It was the unions that had already damaged the country. You read in detail the history about the industrial action in Britain in the 1970s before she was elected. I hope you've got lots of spare time because its a massive history. She did what had to be done. Any government would have inherited the problem. You have to understand what kind of situation she inherited in May 1979. Since then Britain's economy has been transformed. Far more people own houses and have shares, or have started their own businesses. Thatcher created a new middle class and got rid of the old stuffy ways of the past.

[@DocSunshine]

@@CharlesWilliams-jf2nb she did nothing to care for or help transition all the workers lives she destroyed. Inevitability does not mean you leave a mass number of your citizens high and dry and let the entire community suffer with no help. She also never created “a new middle class” all she really did was create a massive divide between the rich and the poor and left the poor without aid or retraining so they could work new industries.

[@DocSunshine]

@@CharlesWilliams-jf2nb also everything you said about modern Britain like home ownership is all from the political leaders who fixed what thatcher put in place

[@CharlesWilliams-jf2nb]

@@DocSunshine Yes, the one thing she did not do was transition all the workers. Those industries were, however, already in ruins when she came to power, and those industries had to be done away with. But the point everyone forgets to consider is that it has been more than 30 years since she left office and no other prime minster has replaced those industries with something new either. Sorry, but she did create a new middle class. Only a few thousand people owned shares in early 1979 and most people never expected to own their house or have their own businesses. She COMPLETELY changed all that. She introduced the spirit of entrepreneurship in Britain in the mid-1980s, and all prime ministers since her have stuck to the same policies. Home ownership for many was started by her, not from other political leaders as you incorrectly assert. I can remember many people in 1987 telling me how great they thought she was because they had been allowed to buy their council flats, and that the market value was 4-5 times more than they had paid. Paying rent for life was common among far more people before her.

[@lugano1999]

The Iron Lady: May she rust in peace.

[@binladen2990]

I swear people just cough when they hear other people cough.

[@mick947]

And never forget that Thatcher came to power just as North Sea oil revenues began to roll in. Timing is everything. She could of taken advantage of this by redistributing the tax revenues to the deindustrialised areas of the country. She wasn’t concerned with that. She just wanted to balance the books .. sod society.

[@user-qw2kr8xz7z]

Good lad. Hope he's successful these years later. Well done

[@hm4steve]

We need people like him in the U.S.A.

[@MrNuckVG]

I'm so annoyed be the people coughing.

[@cleehomes]

I am more annoyed about what Thatcherism did to our country!

[@mysticalarchives7821]

so is this a debate about Margaret Thatcher or a debate over a motion related to Margaret Thatcher? I'm confused.

[@genghisdingus]

but... but... girl boss

[@lolaaaaaaaaaaaa]

shut up

[@awkwardsean5141]

This lad...I hope he could be a future prime minister.

[@markmcmullan3351]

By the time he gets to that age he'll be a Tory .

[@ryanhuntrajput474]

That's quite possible.

[@jamesramplin8124]

@@markmcmullan3351 There's this thing I heard on QI once where if you win the lottery you suddenly become Tory, lol. Being rich just makes you convert

[@AbuHajarAlBugatti]

Nah he now is chief economist at UK branch of Citibank. Just another sellout

[@tomlafferty4651]

This is all well and good, and its good that people of (what I presume) the distinct upper classes hear the other side of the argument against Thatcher. However, it's a shame they are not hearing it from the voices of those who truly suffered from it. This gentleman mentioned 'the ordinary person' in his speech, but are any of the people in that room 'ordinary'? There may be your odd handful of working class success stories, not that you would be able to tell, as many working class people feel the need to change their dialect in circumstances such as debating. Whilst the gap is not as large as what it used to be, and there are platforms you can hear working class voices on now, I would still much rather see this motion presented from a working class Northern English, Scottish or Welsh person - with all due respect to the gentleman speaking!

[@jamesranco3249]

just because you go to a good university does not mean you come from a wealthy background by any means

[@AbuHajarAlBugatti]

Who cares about the native british. They are only cannonfodder for the english wars and foreign policies. Anglosaxon. Angel-sachsen. Germans

[@thecymrus3219]

This kid, obviously well above my socioeconomic class, understands the issues, far more than any prime minister who has served during my lifetime.

[@christopherlawlor2780]

I do think thatcher was correct at the start but with her later on choices got a little bit more outrageous. Pretty much of how you’ll end up, can’t see you going to labour

[@jacobdoddy]

What does the man in the audience say at 4:27 ?

[@georgebarber3280]

“Point of intervention” he wanted to dispute something said

[@emilioarrondo4885]

@@georgebarber3280 you can just say “no thanks”?

[@georgebarber3280]

@@emilioarrondo4885 yep speaker doesn’t have to take any POIs although obvs weakens their case if they never accept

[@kironmanuel664]

Actually a store keeper's daughter cannot do much.Even the aircraft fell from the sky.

[@ew3rivera112]

Margaret Thatcher reminds me a lot of Ronald Reagan. That's not a good thing.

[@briandelaney9710]

Glenda Jackson should have spoken at this debate.

[@robertbruce1887]

This young gentleman did his research & said it well. To me it obviously true his points about the gross regional inequality ( only the South-East sround London prospered in her time while other regions languished) reliance on the financial service industry really backfired in 2008 & the British economy still hasn't recovered, she actually promised to revitalize British Industry? That is a joke!, unlike Norway, who invested profits from their North Sea oil into a Heritage fund worth over , yes 1 trillion! $, Thather's government just injectioned into the economy to have it disappear.

[@Steven-jx7ch]

The critique of a false market for money SIX percent rates to day, and HMG issued bearer bonds for White Van Man

[@cordelmar]

Well wen he got to @ 6:40 saying that England was always a country the was sustain on principles?? If it has high morals how do you explain what they did in India and other colonies Stelling there resources and precious's stones?????.

[@72Bigray]

ps fair play to him though for having a go

[@williamrichmond6219]

Well said sir.

[@thomasboyd6093]

It young speaker socialist yes. Art save us and you Thomas.

[@cosmo2849]

I respect this kid for standing up in front of all these people and I believe that he will do some great things, but a lot of his points can be dis proven even by a quick google search.

[@kevinbrown4073]

Sure the whopper snapper is living hand to mouth right now

[@thomasboyd4829]

He killed Catholic England Thomas. Oliver Cromwell a Tory. Yes. He lawyer Thomas. Did hurt Donegal Ireland yes.

[@teddy-thetrueheadboy.]

My boy is a top waffler, doesn't understand the statistics he's mentioning (For instance the high unemployment in 1982 was 3 million) because of the dosage of harsh medicine, this fell to half 3 years later, at about 5% of the population which is economically viable. On top of this, he didn't touch on inflationary measures, nor how real wage grwoth in her time increased by 27%, even though inequality did increase, everyone largely benefited from this. Also doesn't mention school reformation along with successes of privatization. Delusional and improper.

[@irishspudlad]

I hate Margaret Thatcher

[@montynelson5033]

me too

[@lolaaaaaaaaaaaa]

same

[@joecole7122]

and she hates you

[@jonbatin822]

wow look guys an IRA here

[@irishspudlad]

@@jonbatin822 based

[@lolaaaaaaaaaaaa]

thatchers ded

[@sphinx1017]

Thatcher was incredible! To this day, the longest serving PM in history which means people voted for her.

[@CharlesWilliams-jf2nb]

This guy rants on about the suffering of the poor, and like a lot of other people blames it on Thatcher because she was in power at the time. British industry was already in ruins by 1979, and if Labour had won the election that year we would have still had at least the same problem with unemployment and poverty because of the effect of endless strikes in the 1970s. There is aways a time lag in economics, and it always takes longer to recover from a recession or deep recession than it does for people's standard of living to improve following a period of growth. Many of the working class people in the north who benefitted from Thatcherism will NEVER admit that they've benefitted. If Thatcherism was so bad then why has every government since adopted it and continued to use it?

[@ollieking31]

So let's just skip through the years of Brown and Blair, and blame Thatcher! Hahahah!

[@MichaelJones-wh9cy]

the problem was that blair and brown didn't reintroduce enough of the regulations that thatcher got rid of

[@joecole7122]

It's more like they are skipping over the 1970s and blaming Reagan and Thatcher. The economy was better in the 1980s

[@CharlesWilliams-jf2nb]

He talks about principles of fairness having always been there, including the 1940s. Up until the late 1970s working class people always assumed they'd be in that rut for life and never own a home or run their own business, or have a really well paid job like being city dealer. Thatcher changed all that, and the hooray henrys were pushed aside. This guy is too young to have been around when she did all this. I remember working class people in London in 1987, who had just bough their first house, saying they thought she was great, and this guy talks about how badly she treated people.

[@giddeo]

I think the key word there was London.

[@insomniacbritgaming1632]

@@giddeo the Northern workers caused their own downfall, Thatcher just pointed it out and they didn't like it...

[@t.d6379]

Key word: London 🤓

[@Kai555100]

you are from the south aren't you

[@CharlesWilliams-jf2nb]

@@Kai555100 Yes I am.

[@onelove111]

After watching The Crown tv show I felt like Thatcher was the one who pushed the Britain off the cliff.

[@Kale-ki8xu]

What are you even talking about

[@johnbaker3493]

Well you are dead Woke!

[@Cringeage]

GOOD JAB

[@DeezN1892]

Lol jab

[@kekkekson2484]

He really did show up with a peezleez essay lol

[@montynelson5033]

your username-

[@PetrolHeadBrasil]

Team Thatcher!

[@tomdobson9343]

she’s dead mate

[@keir100]

Because being a failing nation crippled by strikes and burdened with unaffordable state ownership was so much better right!,a ungrateful nation means nothing when she was and is revered so highly around the world because she saved the UK and put it back where it should be,jealousy and resentment of success is all her detractors have to offer.

[@DeezN1892]

She’s completely resented and hated around the world except on weird 4chan internet circles lmao

[@CharlesWilliams-jf2nb]

Thatcher caused widespread inequality? Garbage. She made it possible for working class people, who had always assumed they'd never own a house, have a middle class job, or even have their own business to have all of those things. They'd never had them before and it's because of the changes Thatcher made that the upper classes and people born with certain privileges no longer automatically get the top positions for life. This guy uses high unemployment to hold up his argument, but doesn't seem to realise that years of high inflation and endless strikes had already taken most of their toll by the time the conservatives took office in May 1979. The country's industry was rotten through. Thatcher overhauled the economy and created social mobility. The preceding labour government had prevented it. The crash of 2008 was largely down to super low interest rates over an extended period since 9/11.

[@CharlesWilliams-jf2nb]

@CLM1978 What do you mean with a short-term narrow perspective? Are you suggesting this has not been maintained in the long-term? It has, very clearly has. We have never looked back after the way she radically changed our economy, including the way we look at it.

[@masinissaibrahimi5569]

What about high unemployment and the poll tax + abandoning Unions?

[@CharlesWilliams-jf2nb]

@@masinissaibrahimi5569 First the poll tax may have been divisive at the time, but we have not replaced it with anything else, so it can't be that bad. Adandoning the unions was deliberate and necessary. I don't know how old you are, but unless you having living memory of what Britain was like before Thatcher became PM you will have no idea. Just to give you one example of how dangerous the unions were, Red Robbo led 523 (!!!) car strikes in the 1970s. This is what ruined our car industry. There was one year when British Leyland had industrial action by its staff every single working day of the year. Do you honestly think a company can financially viable with all that going on? Union-led strikes was part of the winter of discontent in 1979, and ultimately led to the election that got Thatcher in during 1979.

[@monoecumsemper]

@@CharlesWilliams-jf2nb I strongly support your position and appreciate your commentaries about the long-term efficiency of Mrs. T. very much. Just finished Moore's 3rd volume and wish Mrs. T. had lived to see that nothing she did was 'in vain'. If only other countries such as Germany (where I'm from I must admit) had been led into a postion to understand and value that Great Britain showed them the way they should have gone. Wish you all the best.

[@CharlesWilliams-jf2nb]

@@monoecumsemper Thank you very much!

[@matthewkirby5394]

Thatcher put Britain back on the map! The greatest of all time.

[@mixmo437]

Thatcher made millions of British people suffer

[@mixmo437]

@Cranberry juice 64 literally!

[@joshuacoaker6987]

She hated the poor and shut down strikers in england and ireland

[@Tom-yd7wd]

The map of poverty?

[@matthewkirby5394]

@@Tom-yd7wd you obviously dont know history and need to get your books out and do some reading.

[@staneagle1070]

Was he even alive for thatchers reign?

[@user-ou9df8yx8x]

Why is that irrelevant? A student of history could argue any time period without having been alive using various sources of evidence to support their opinions.

[@user-ou9df8yx8x]

Correction ...I meant to write why is that relevant! 🙂

[@staneagle1070]

@@user-ou9df8yx8x I would say it’s quite relevant given the people he is debating were for the most part around that time

[@Jessica-tv4wj]

This boy has no idea of the rest of the World. The UK is one of the richest countries in the world! He has absolutely no idea of how rich the poorest britains citizens are regarding the rest of the world.

[@markgable101]

How can there be inequality.? She became the first female prime minister. She came from the working classes.

[@markgable101]

*****,.. Margaret Thatcher dragged Britain into the modern world... And bwoy did it hurt.

[@markgable101]

*****​​​​ The fact of the matter is Labour are incompetent at running government and the civil service. Every Labour government has virtually always left the country near bankrupt. It's not their fault per say because, it's not in the dna of the Labouring classes to administer government. Communism doesn't work. The toffs/ whigs historically in comparison have been at it a very long time, they know what they're doing. If you notice the Conservatives always come into government, when the nation is in a economic crisis and set about clearing up the debt and invary reconfigure the nations finances etc. .Off course it means making hard choices/ decisions.  Margaret Thatcher was in fact the most successful prime minister. She did win 3 general elections. She was formidable, patriotic, resolute and respected even by other opposite world leaders. Everything Labour is not.

[@markmcmullan3351]

Have you been teleported here from 1850 .

[@funnycreature2331]

Xi ping was a pig farmer and became dictator of china, how can he possibly cause problems for the working classes?

[@Conbom3]

@@markmcmullan3351 came straight from signing Whig bastilles reforms

[@henrychan7859]

I don't know whats more annoying his hand or the speech itself.

[@5tranger]

your fkn opinion is more annoying

[@tabe3263]

Don't like the truth?

[@markbennett2464]

What a lot of old tosh.

[@ronjames9759]

BestCanKeanRob2 Come to Birmingham mate and I’ll bonk your focking chompers in, gobby little wazzock you are

[@BuckyTheN00b2]

Can’t argue with that cogent rhetoric.

[@orclittleboss]

Must be hard to debate against Thatcher's success. At least he tried. Maggie saved Britain. Yes some segments of society had short term pain, but without Maggie Britain would be Venezuela and we would all be stuffed

[@jarjarbinks4744]

What the hell does Venezuela have anything to do with not being Thatcher. Venezuela failed because of the 2014 global drop in oil demand because of the increase of American fracking. And their economy and almost 90+% of their exports were oil. Their economy was based only on oil, they were destined to fail. Not being Thatcher has nothing to do with Venezuela’s demise.

[@sedlsonsimon]

Haha you did the meme! You did the Venezuela meme hahah

[@DeezN1892]

Without Thatcher the US would pass economic sanctions after we attempted to nationalise our oil sources?

[@DeezN1892]

@@sedlsonsimon BUT BUT BUT BUT VUVUZELAAAAAA

[@orclittleboss]

@@DeezN1892 I think your the one who is obsessed with Venezuela oh mighty meme lord

[@72Bigray]

I am sure this young man is looking back as an adult and regretting his poorly formed and inaccurate and unsubstantiated opinions. must be about 25 now