The 356 - Winchester's Rimmed 358

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Who is Ron Spomer
For 44 years I’ve had the good fortune to photograph and write about my passion - the outdoor life. Wild creatures and wild places have always stirred me - from the first flushing pheasant that frightened me out of my socks in grandpa’s cornfield to the last whitetail that dismissed me with a wag of its tail. In my attempts to connect with this natural wonder, to become an integral part of our ecosystem and capture a bit of its mystery, I’ve photographed, hiked, hunted, birded, and fished across much of this planet. I've seen the beauty that everyone should see, survived adventures that everyone should experience. I may not have climbed the highest mountains, canoed the wildest rivers, caught the largest fish or shot the biggest bucks, but I’ve tried. Perhaps you have, too. And that’s the essential thing. Being out there, an active participant in our outdoor world.
All loading, handloading, gunsmithing, shooting and associated activities and demonstrations depicted in our videos are conducted by trained, certified, professional gun handlers, instructors, and shooters for instructional and entertainment purposes only with emphasis on safety and responsible gun handling. Always check at least 3 industry handloading manuals for handloading data, 2 or 3 online ballistic calculators for ballistic data. Do not attempt to duplicate, mimic, or replicate anything you see in our videos. Firearms, ammunition, and constituent parts can be extremely dangerous if not used safely.
Produced by: @red11media
Disclaimer
All loading, handloading, gunsmithing, shooting and associated activities and demonstrations depicted in our videos are conducted by trained, certified, professional gun handlers, instructors, and shooters for instructional and entertainment purposes only with emphasis on safety and responsible gun handling. Always check at least 3 industry handloading manuals for handloading data, 2 or 3 online ballistic calculators for ballistic data. Do not modify any cartridge or firearm beyond what the manufacturer recommends. Do not attempt to duplicate, mimic, or replicate anything you see in our videos. Firearms, ammunition, and constituent parts can be extremely dangerous if not used safely.

[@Erniethomas43]

I'm quite partial to the .356! Had one since I was 17yrs.old ...that's 30 years ago!! Got 20+ moose with it in my youth! I wouldn't trade it for the world💪👍

[@trevorgale1176]

The 35 Rem uses a rimless case, and it seems to function just fine in a lever rifle.

[@marktercsak9728]

The .356 is an excellent cartridge and should be on the market along with the awesome .348

[@ernestbarch2976]

Sometime in the '80s, I used WINCHESTER 94 AE XTR RIFLE .356 WIN to shoot a deer at 265 yds., the longest kill shot on a deer I have ever made. I aimed above its back and fired and saw the deer drop in its tracks. When I walked the distance to the deer I found that I had shot it right through the ears. I remember also that one opening day, carrying the same .356 gun, I walked to my spot where I would hunt when the sun came up, and as I began to load the gun I jammed it. Using my pocket knife and fiddled and fiddled with it but I couldn't un-jam it. I had to walk back to my truck and get a backup gun I had brought with me, my old Sears Ted Williams .30-06 bolt action.

[@sethbourquin4824]

Getting closer to that 348 Winchester! Haha

[@oldhunter1000]

Love those 35 caliber rifles. I always wanted to build a T/C single shot rifle in 356 Win.

[@bobkat1663]

Great Show.

[@1jmccray]

Thank you Ron, I enjoyed the video. The Browning BLR in 358 win is a pleasure to shoot, if you ever get a chance to shoot one don't hesitate.

[@joeymatuszewski3399]

Please do more with the less than mainstream cartridges. This was a great video and the 35 Rem surprised me!

[@mikelovin7]

And this is why the 30-30 still hunts with the big dogs.

[@MrPh30]

A Norwegian article i read from a now defunct magazine in the 90s, Våpenjournalen . It was about the .356 with different bullets, he took 225 Nosler P and Swift Aframe 225 and filed the tip of on NP and slightly filed on Aframe. Both bullets worked very good and gave him better ammo than what could be found back then and something different than the 220 Speer softpoint.

[@jonbott2926]

Took my largest elk at about 150 yds with the .356 marlin. 2 rounds and he was done. It worked well the first one killed the 2nd dumped in his tracks. I’m a fan

[@nathanielcohen9890]

I loved my 7-30 waters in the xtr. wish I never sold it. took many a deer with it.

[@north61]

I have a 307 that does the same thing. Also my 375 will get into 2" with receiver sights and a sour-dough front. Great Clan of rifles.

[@jdsunshinefarms119]

I really like my .375! Wish I could still get factory 250 gr soft points.

[@north61]

@@jdsunshinefarms119 255 Barnes shoot pretty well, but the old 250 Power-points were a great bullet.

[@MrZeke701]

@@north61 Thanks for the tip. I'll try to load me up some Barnes.

[@north61]

@@MrZeke701 RL 7 seems to work well with a number of 375 reloaders with the 255 Barnes.

[@joebarrett5310]

Check out Vollmer Precision for 220gr jacketed bullets made for the 375 Win. I use his bullets almost exclusively and am very happy with them. He is a small operation, so orders take a little time, especially in the current times. But all in all, a great guy to do business with and a true friend to the 375 Win owner/reloader.

[@thereindeertherabbitthebat592]

HA! That good old 30-30... Tried & true, even when up against that 35. Very impressed with 356 & 358 though. Cool stuff, thanks for sharing 👍

[@axelsprangare2579]

Yes but it's still obsolete and old. There are better calibers out there but the 30-30 still works as well on deer sized game as it did in 1895.

[@guaporeturns9472]

@@axelsprangare2579 I’m obsolete and old as well so my 30-30 is a perfect fit.

[@exothermal.sprocket]

Don't confuse the true dictionary definition of "obsolete" with the definition of "ineffective."

[@barntapes3414]

I like 35’s. I had a 356 about 20 years ago but sold it when I was broke. Model 94AE..had bullets, brass and reloading dies..all gone. Never found another, but I DID find a 35 Whelen Handi Rifle, a 358 Win in a Savage 99 and now I’m building a 35 Whelen bolt action. The Whelen cartridge is the most versatile, but that 358 is the most fun.

[@troyandskyelar9588]

Just bought a 356 on Tuesday. 1982 with the checkered stock, magazine tube sling mount, Monte-Carlo stock and no safety, came with 3 mostly complete boxes of ammunition, although I think 2 of the boxes are handloads, and then there’s a box of 250gr which is factory for sure.

[@Kaseyaught6]

Quite easy to load the 35Rem 220 Speer to 2200 fps with lever powder … big diff that the 30-30 can’t overcome … love 35s!

[@pecospest]

Hi , Ron ! Excellent video as usual , I wouldn't worry about the ammunition problem , after all you can trim and neck down 444 marlin brass , same rim , same base , and it's much easier to find.

[@RonSpomerOutdoors]

I thought that might work. I understand Hornady still loads 307 Win. Same basic brass/body. Just neck up to .35.

[@lloydshultz9645]

Great video as always Ron..

[@RonSpomerOutdoors]

I appreciate that, Lloyd.

[@cowboybob08]

I inherited a Model 94 XTR in the 356 Winchester. It’s not bad. It took me a while to track down some brass, and it wasn’t cheap, but after getting around 400 pieces of new brass, i can reload for a while. Just plan on reloading for it if you come across one.

[@RonSpomerOutdoors]

It's possible to form brass from 444 Marlin. Also neck up 307 Win. brass.

[@millboss1372]

Just picked up a .358win in a Browning blr. Super excited!!

[@jnyne3303]

I just inherited a marlin chambered in 356 win and couldn’t find much information on it. Perfectly timed video for me!

[@hawknives]

Buy 307 Winchester brass and run it through 356 Winchester dies.

[@jnyne3303]

@@hawknives I didn’t know about the 307 win until your comment. Great to know. I always wondered how I would reload for it once I run out of ammo and wear out the brass. Figured I would have to find a way to form a rim on a 308 win but the 307 solves that problem. Thanks!

[@hawknives]

@@jnyne3303 You're Welcome, JNyne. the lever guns that are tube fed, usually need a rim on the brass, for feeding and cycling. I believe that the Model 99 Winchester lever gun uses actual 308 Winchester...but it is magazine fed, from the bottom and therefore does NOT need to be a rimmed case. We learn something new every day, if we can just keep our pride out of the way. Christ bless! Hawk.

[@oncall21]

It's a pity the .307 and the .356 never took off (and to the same degree the 375 Winchester). The XTR actually had a checkered stock in the Winchester. The Marlin is just a beefier gun all around. Thanks for sharing!

[@RonSpomerOutdoors]

Yes, John and I wondered why this XTR didn't have the checkered stock.

[@exothermal.sprocket]

Model 94 has been chambered in .444 Marlin and .450 Marlin. What do you mean beefier gun?

[@Kmurray9244]

I have a .356 XTR, had it for about 25yrs and honestly never fired a round out of it.. I've even tried to sell it and no one wants it.. So I'll keep gem 👍

[@funnyfarm62]

They also increased the thickness of the brass like mill spec brass to handle the higher pressures... That's why they have slightly less capacity that a 308...

[@MrDNstefan]

Fantastisch dieses Video 🤠

[@timeverett7828]

Need to review one of my faves! 358 Norma magnum! 1 hell of a cartridge..

[@robertpetersson1390]

Nils Kvale was a genius. He made 308 norma mag also. Greetings from sweden.

[@timeverett7828]

@@robertpetersson1390 You mean super genius!

[@travisrobinson7922]

I too would love to see an article about the 358Norma Magnum!!!

[@furmanmackey5479]

I have long felt that the .356 would have been a great round for Remington Rolling Blocks and "carbine" length Sharps. With its "traditional" 200 JSP the .35 Remington is my favorite 100 to 150yrd deer and hog thumper.

[@googleuser8448]

Man i love watching these videos

[@exothermal.sprocket]

Model 94 XTR has been chambered for .307 Winchester (.308 rimmed), .356 Winchester (.307 expanded to .358), .375 WInchester (slightly strengthened .38-55 casing, a tad shorter OAL, running higher pressure), .444 Marlin (long .44 magnum essentially), and .450 Marlin (magnum .45-70 essentially, and based ultimately on the .375 H&H case).

[@MatthewinGooseneck]

I really appreciate your enthusiasm when talking about these cartridges!

[@RonSpomerOutdoors]

Thanks Matt.

[@buddy22801012]

Why did Winchester have trouble with a rimless cartridge. Marlin’s 35 Remington used a rimless case.

[@johnkaraphillis754]

Great group Ron! Those lever actions sure bring back great memories. I passed my model ‘94 Winchester in .32 Special to my son and told him pass it on to his son/daughter. Classic! But I was not familiar with .356/.358. Thanks Ron

[@RonSpomerOutdoors]

You are welcome, John.

[@daltonguthrie9296]

I have a old marlin 35 rem and 1950 model 70 300h&h that buddy of mines grandfather bought new and used as his sole centerfire armament for 30 years in the alaskan bush he moved back down the south and I bought these about 14 years ago immediately put them both to good use. The 35 rem is handloader dream and cast bullets are right at home in all the .358 bores including the 358win and 35whelen.

[@ctapmgriley]

Nice video. I always enjoy the lever guns.

[@Mark-uq9km]

Great video. I love all things .358 caliber and I thank you for doing a super job of presenting them to people who aren't familiar with them. I was hoping you'd end the show with ringing the steel at 300 yds with that beautiful .356 Win. I know it can be done because I've done it with the .35 Rem. I enjoyed the article in American Hunter about you and your family being able to be self sufficient out there on your property in Idaho. Blessings.

[@RonSpomerOutdoors]

Thanks for watching, Mark. I'd would have loved showing that gong hit, but the camera with the long lens didn't record. Did get a short lens shot of my reaction and on it you could hear the hit.

[@jeffreyfish7666]

Great video.

[@GaToRBoY268]

Finally !!! Your the man keep it up love the knowledge

[@RonSpomerOutdoors]

Thanks Austin. Lots more cartridges to cover.

[@ronkay1573]

I use my Marlin 336ER 356 every hunting season using factory Winchester 250gr wearing a Leupold vari-x III 2.5-8. Perfect woods rifle.

[@brianrobbins3499]

I have in a Winchester 94ae and plenty of brass to go with it. Thanks Ron

[@oldmangreywolf6892]

Hey Ron. Just so you can have records of this right off the boxes. 35 Remington Core-lokt. 200g RN Muzzle- 2080fps, -1.5 100yds- 1697, 0.0 200yrd- 1374, -8.4 300yrd- 1138, -31.7 400yrd- 999, -77.5 35 rem Hornidy Leverevolution 200g Muzzle- 2225 fps 100yrds- no velocity given, +3.8 200yrds- no velocity given, 0.0 300yrds- no velocity given, -15.0 These are the cartrages I got access to so hope this can help.

[@RonSpomerOutdoors]

Thanks for the info, Greywolf.

[@williamster2015]

As of lately I've been working different loads on the the 350 legend. I know it's a bit different then these here but there's something about it I'm intrigued about still.

[@Spruce-Bug]

The 35s are spectacular on game. It's also nice to have something different and more unique than a common 30 cal.

[@justinwilson2595]

Love your videos and learning the knowledge you have to share. Side note I searched for years until I finally found and picked up a big bore 94 XTR in 375win absolutely love that rifle for deer and black bear in the brush.

[@garylewis6631]

90

[@justinwilson2595]

@@garylewis6631 what do you mean by 90 ??

[@kentsanders7127]

Just stumbled upon this article. Well done I shoot both the 356 and 358 Winchesters. I've gotten 3/4 inch groups out of my 94 BB with Hornady 200 grain flex tips. I took a nice Adirondack buck with it last fall. Great gun. Can't wait to do it again.

[@TOPGUNMPD08]

Thanks for another great video. One of my favorite woods rifle/ cartridge combinations is the 356 Winchester Big Bore lever action. Plenty of punch even for the bigger stuff at moderate ranges.

[@RonSpomerOutdoors]

You are welcome, DW. Nice to hear someone is using the 356 to good effect.

[@romeolima5339]

@@RonSpomerOutdoors My model 71 348 is the king of the woods in the dangerous game neck of the north American woods. I'm surprised you didn't compare it to the 356 win.

[@robertrusso6347]

Consistently great content!

[@RonSpomerOutdoors]

Many thanks, Robt.

[@stevegiguere1315]

One of my favorite rifles. I took a whitetail with it several years ago and anchored that small crotch horn right on the spot

[@jeramyw]

I wish Olin would've released the 400 Winchester back in the early 80s. Basically a 303 Savage necked up to .400". It's just about 0.02" wider than a 38-55 at every point but the rim.

[@RonSpomerOutdoors]

That's an odd one I've never hear of. So many wildcats.

[@jeramyw]

@@RonSpomerOutdoors They would've released it but the 375 Winchester didn't take off like they hoped so they scrapped the idea.

[@melaninabsentgenetics3626]

Love it Ron! Give those old wonderful cartridges the praises they disserve!!! Like the old 35 whelen, 22 hornet, 356 win!!! This coming from someone who doesn't care for new technology (it's made people lazy and slow)!

[@daneboro6847]

I agree 👍

[@RonSpomerOutdoors]

Thanks Melanin! We'll try to keep the spotlight on some of the obscure ones.

[@melaninabsentgenetics3626]

@@RonSpomerOutdoors for some reason I really want a 348 win... Thanks Ron for being more intelligent and informational than other channels (I would list a couple other channels but I don't want to give them any credit)! Share the passion!

[@badgrammar168]

There's no school like the old school!

[@AndyTheCornbread]

I like .358 Win so much I had a custom one built for me on a Remington 700 BDL short action with a Lilja barrel. Consistently groups 220 grain bullets at .7 - .9 of an inch at 100 yards for 5 shot groups. MV of my load is 2,539fps. I use it for deer, elk, and bear here in the mountains of NW Montana. Never needed more than one shot for any animal taken with it. Furthest kill with 358 win has been a whitetail buck at 325 yards.

[@williamkaiser8067]

I had a Marlin in .356 back in the 80s. It got stolen and I had to replace it with a mere Winchester, but still in .356. The cartridge just made and makes sense to me. The Winchester has a bit of recoil with factory rounds, because it's so very light. But I load my own and load them lighter than factory, so it's not a problem. And with me, the problem is not brass. As this is written, it's bullets. Good thing it likes them cast.

[@billhatcher2984]

That's why I want one I want to cast and load my own

[@joebarrett5310]

Also worth noting, beginning with the 375 Win introduced in 1978 followed a couple years later by the 307 and 356 Win to round out their "Big Bore 94" line, they just didn't catch on with lever rifle enthusiasts for some reason. Marlin attempted the same thing in the early 2000s with their 308 and 338 Marlin Express rifles only to find the same end Winchester did in the 1980s. A real shame on both counts in my opinion.

[@blackie1of4]

Thank you for sharing this brother 😊 I absolutely love the 35's and believe those of us that gave them a shot become hooked! I only have personal experience with the 350 Remington Mag, the 358 Winchester and the 350 Legend. The 350 Legend is the modern day 35 Remington in my opinion. Was actually at the range today with my 350 Legend. She's beautiful and shots MOA with Winchester 180's. I just uploaded a short video of her today. This past season I harvested a big bodied pennsylvania eight point that staggered thirty yards to his death bed... and my brother's nephew downed a big bodied pennsylvania ten point... his snow plowed twenty yards to his death bed.

[@Mark-uq9km]

In many ways the .350 Legend is the modern day .35 Remington. I have both and love them both. The .35 Remington has more bullet weight choices than the Legend which would lend itself to being a better choice for elk or even moose. The Buffalo Bore .35 Remington load has a 220 grain bullet with 2200 fps at the muzzle. I load a 180 grain Speer or Hawk bullet into the .35 Rem and get around 2350 -2400 muzzle fps with no pressure issues. On the other hand, the .350 Legend punches way about its weight. The 180 grain load would be a respectable elk round out to 150-175 yards. It doesn't load much powder but the pressure index is pretty high and I think the bullets are a little harder. They will expand but not mushroom like the traditional cup and core bullets. Usual hits on game provide total pass through in most cases. I like what PA has done with their antler restrictions. I lived most of my life there and now live in Florida. There are thousands of Keystoners down here.

[@blackie1of4]

@@Mark-uq9km I just revisited this video and your comment.. I agree with you about the two cartridges! Of course out of the two the 35 Remington is more versatile. Especially if you handload :) I actually took my 358 Winchester deer hunting this season and harvested a big bodied Pennsylvania buck. This one was knocked off it's feet.. but regained his bearings then mad dashed 100 yards with no lungs and a hole in his heart! It amazes me just how tough deer are! Their will to survive can't be measured! Thanks for your comment and God bless you 🙏

[@mattscott7037]

I own a .307 and this cartridge is excellent. Basically.308 in a lever. Cool rifle. On that .356. Now I want one.

[@luvtahandload7692]

Nice vid on a good old round that doesn't seem to get much love any 'Moor. Thanks for bringing John Haviland on as guest star. It's good to put a voice with a face. I've been reading his stuff for, probably, 26 years. Lol. Thanks Ron. Looking forward to the next one.

[@RonSpomerOutdoors]

You're welcome, Luvta.

[@GeorgeSemel]

That one came and went in a blink of an eye. Back then I thought what for, and I still don't lose any sleep over it. In '82 I got a Winchester M-70 Featherweight in 7 x 57 and I thought I died and went to heaven. I shot a lot of whitetails and other game with that one.

[@RonSpomerOutdoors]

I agree. The old 7x57 is sweet.

[@formerice]

I have a .358 Win in a 336 Marlin. Gunsmith rechambered a .35 Rem. Way before the . 356.. Equally accurate. Handload 200 g Hornaday RN.

[@RonSpomerOutdoors]

Sounds like a good one, Formerice.

[@bktk8]

My brother bought one in the 80s There was also a .307 and a .375

[@davewinter2688]

You arrived at the correct conclusion regarding it being worthwhile to step up to the 356 Winchester as I see it. I have not owned one, but have seen their effectiveness.However using only the Speer data with their bullets does not give a fair comparison of what the other 35's are capable of. Keep in mind at all times that manufacturers use their data to sell their products. I own several different Speer manuals so I am familiar with their data and they seem to be about the most conservative of all the different loading manuals I use including Speer, Hornady, Hogdon, Lee, Nosler, Winchester and Phil Sharpe's "Complete Guide To Hand Loading". With that said, the useful case capacity of the 35 Remington is just not large enough for enough modern smokeless powder of the proper burn rate to propel that big 220 grain bullet at velocities high enough to take advantage of its already low ballistic coefficient and sectional density out of a 20 inch barrel carbine which is what most hunters are going to be using in the heavily wooded areas of the east coast, upper Mid West and southeast portions of the United States. The same can be said of the 358 Winchester based on the 308 Winchester case. I believe that the 200 grain spitzer styled bullet with better numbers is the optimum in the 358. With that bullet and modern powders you can safely get velocities of 2600 fps or more from a 22 inch barrel bolt action 358 but you will be 150 to 200 fps slower if you step up to the 250 grain bullet as used in the 35 Whelen. Another issue is bullet style and construction. You completely ignored the Hornady LEVERevolution cartridge which makes a legitimate 200 yard round out of the 35 Remington with its 200 grain FTX flex tip bullet. For readers who may be new to this game it is not safe to shoot pointed bullets in a tubular magazine because of the danger of chain reaction discharge caused by the point of one those bullets hitting the primer of the bullet in front of it in the magazine. The FTX bullet has a soft, flexible pointed tip which has been shown to be safe for use in tubular magazines. That bullet has a ballistic coefficient of 0.300 which theoretically gives some down range advantage over the flat nosed or round nosed bullets such as that used in the Remington 200 grain Core-Lokt 35 Remington factory load. Both Hornady and Remington claim 2225 FPS for their respective 200 grain loads in the 35 Remington, but Hornady is using data from a 24" barrel and Remington doesn't say what barrel length was used for their velocity tests. For the LEVERevolution cartridge Hornady shows a trajectory of +3.00" at 100 yards, -1.3" at 200 yards and -17.5" at 300 yards. Remington does not give any trajectory data in its advertised information. On the positive side of the ledger in the newest Hornady reloading manual they show a maximum velocity of 2100 FPS with the 200 grain bullet in front of their LEVERevolution reloading powder using a Marlin Model 336 SC with a 20" barrel with a 1 in 16" twist. I believe that is a fair representation of the 35 Remington for use in real world hunting scenarios. In my mind both Remington and Winchester are both notorious for publishing velocity data for factory loads that do not hold up in the field. With that in mind I believe that you can usually subtract 100 fps from their numbers to get what you will get from your typical hunting rifle. Ron you stated that in one case you were surprised to see that a lighter bullet only 50 fps faster had more energy than the heavier bullet. You need to go back to physics 101. Kinetic energy K equals 1/2 mass times velocity squared. For energy in ft. lbs. bullet weight in grains x square of bullet velocity in fps divided by 450,437. I'm proud to brag to live basically next door to the little town in Kansas where Roy Weatherby grew up. A lot of folks around here remember him. A local business owner who grew up with Roy wanted a rifle to give to one of his retiring employees. He made one phone call to Roy and the custom built rifle was delivered in time for the employee's retirement party. Roy understood that law of physics when he was designing his long range meat destroyers. If someone offers me a free 270 Weatherby Magnum I'm not going to turn it down, but I'm not going to use it to shoot White Tails on in the creek bottom on my farm or even for a long shot across an open pasture. It just isn't necessary. Even though shots at over 400 yards are possible, I won't take a long shot any way. Age and diminishing eye sight are taking their toll. I know I don't practice enough. If I'm sitting and have cross sticks or other rest, about 200 yards is all I'm comfortable with. Even with a scope it's not worth the risk of a wounded animal getting away to die a lingering death or be torn up by coyotes because I couldn't hold still enough. All of this has been to illustrate that one set of incomplete statistics does not tell the whole story. At ranges and conditions that 30-30's, 35 Remington and 356 Winchester are designed for, ballistic coefficient and sectional density don't really matter. That has been proven year after year with thousands of deer, black bear and even some larger species be killed grave yard dead with one shot with both 30-30 and 35 Remington. The 356 Winchester is a small improvement but it really can't match the 358 Winchester with a 22 or 24 inch barrel on a strong bolt action because even the beefed up model 94 is not as strong and will not stand the pressures a bolt action will handle. There are plenty of warnings published about that. In short, know your rifle and what both you and your rifle are capable of. Know your quarry and the terrain you'll be hunting in. With the 35 Remington sighted 3 inches night at 100 yards you can hold dead on out to 200 yard without having to worry about bullet drop because if you have a good steady hold in the center of the heart/lung region you'll put that bullet in the kill zone of that deer. Winds under 10mph won't make much difference either at these ranges. With these factors in mind both 358 Winchester and the 35 Whelen are enough for Elk or Moose size out to 300 yards or farther with careful well placed shots. Now, as long as I'm on this soap box tirade there's a couple of other things i might as well say while I'm here regarding rifles, calibers, B.C.'s and S.D.'s etc. A lot of new cartridges and rifles have been developed by manufacturers as solutions to non-existent problems. Follow the money! Case in point being the 6.5 Creedmoor. It's original stated reason for design by Hornady was to be a good long range target cartridge, which it is. Then suddenly when a few idiots began making wild claims about extreme long range kills on deer and other larger species Hornady and some foaming at the mouth gun writers who don't really understand how to compare ballistics of one cartridge to another and are beholden to the advertisers in their publications began to jump the bandwagon to declare the 6.5 Creedmoor the greatest thing since sliced bread that could slay any dragon at any distance. Then to top it off we now have these self styled long range shooters who are nothing but wannabe snipers claiming one shot kills at ranges of 1000 yards or more. They are not hunters. They have no skills for stalking to within reasonable range or sitting quietly in a stand long enough make ethical, clean humane kills at reasonable ranges with the weapon of their choice.. They're not telling you how many deer or elk they wounded if they did happen to hit one at these extreme ranges. I like rifles of all different bore sizes and configurations because of their effectiveness, historical significance or even nostalgic appeal. I'm not a die-hard big bore only guy like Elmer Kieth who said in print "Velocity never killed a damned thing". As entertaining of a gun writer and cartridge developer he was, who never cared or wrote about ballistic coefficient, sectional densities, velocity standard deviation etc. but only effect of bullets on game, his statements as to velocity and killing power of small diameter bullets have been proven wrong by Roy Weatherby, Jack O'Connor and others but do not make the big slow bullets any less effective. There is cost both practical and economic that comes with high velocity rounds when it comes to game hunting. That cost is considerable loss of some of the best meat on the deer or elk if your deer is hit in the shoulder, neck, upper back or rump. A big heavy bullet at moderate velocities makes a big whole through the vital heart/lung area. They can break shoulder bones to anchor that animal without destroying a lot of tissue with hydrostatic shock.

[@davewinter2688]

I'm technically and dexterously challenged. In my previous comment regarding the 35 caliber cartridges I meant to say how much I enjoyed the video and the comments and to keep up the good work. Also as to my comment on the 6.5 Creedmoor as the greatest thing since sliced bread for those of you who are not familiar with the 6.5x55mm Swedish Mauser, look it up. I have one of the M96 Carl Gustavstadt (sp?) sporterized by Kimber. It is a tack driver and will do anything a Creedmoor will do and more especially with the heavier bullets. That's a rifle and cartridge that was designed before 1900. Like I say. Solutions to non-existent problems. Follow the money.

[@winchester358]

I'D like to see a review on the 358Win I have a 99 and just love it . I owned a 336ER in 356 shot two bears two deer worked really well. I really enjoy your video,s thx

[@robertfusco3884]

Nice video. I would have liked to have seen a comparison using of the the 35 Remington using the 200 grain bullet. I believe that is the more commonly used round.

[@404nitro]

I looked long and hard for one of the rare Marlin 356 EER rifles but could never find one. Several years ago I found an as new (still in the box with all the hang tags etc) 375 Win Big Bore 94 from either the first or second year of production.With most powders it is only slightly better than the 35 Rem, but with AA 1680......man does this round come alive. It is quite easy to hit 2450 with 200 gr bullets and 220's can be pushed to close to 2400. All the loads I use with 1680 came directly to me from Accurate powders over the phone. 1680 is for the 375 Win what Leverevolution is for the 35 rem a shot of steroids.

[@buckbilly5789]

I would like to try it in my 94 xtr 375. Thank you nitro 404.

[@404nitro]

@@buckbilly5789 You're welcome. If you can find it, you won't go back to anything else for your 375, especially if you have a chrono and see the results for yourself. Call AA powders and ask them for their charges for 200 or 220 gr bullets rather than trust someone like me, who you don't know at all. That's what I did after reading on a gun forum the charge weights someone else posted. Turned out he was given the same exact info as I was, so that basically made it double checked, which I like.

[@briandecker8290]

Would be great to see someone talk about the 307 win

[@joebarrett5310]

Ron, I have a Winchester 94 Big Bore in 375 Win that was made in about 1980 and I absolutely love it. I'd really like to find a top eject pre-safety Big Bore in 356 Win like the one featured here. It really looks like a performer! Thanks for doing a vid on this. I'd like to see your take on the 375 Win sometime if you're so inclined

[@guaporeturns9472]

I had a Savage 99 in 375 I sold when I got laid off yrs ago. Wish I had that one back.. (and a bunch of others)

[@charliethompson6601]

I have a win94 in 356. Ammo is ridiculous

[@joebarrett5310]

@@charliethompson6601 factory ammo for the 375 is also pretty expensive. Definitely helps if you roll your own, which I do.

[@jamessnodgrass7360]

It's great to see John with you. I've been reading you guys forever. I make my 356 from hornady 307, and the 358 dies work great. I do believe that the 356 is about as good as it gets in a 94. Thanks for the great channel

[@RonSpomerOutdoors]

You're welcome, James.

[@jimmyrustler5801]

Looks like a great short-action cartridge. I'm sure velocity from a 16" barrel would be perfect for 100% penetration through bear-sized game at bush range

[@RockawayCCW]

I want a Winchester 94 in 7-30 Waters. They're hard to find, tho.

[@kentwood9083]

I built an ar-10 in 358 Winchester and its a shooter not hunted with it yet but looking forward to it

[@jamesquigley8628]

I had thought about a 356 for my Encore as well. Think you would find it knocked down game faster than a lot of other calibers.

[@PassivePortfolios]

Winchester made a few in .307 Win. They are super rare and obviously collectible. I had a Marlin 336 in 356 Win. Unfortunately I sold it.

[@50-110nut]

another thing to help with the pressure the 356 brass was also thicker

[@TheEuroace]

Hi! It is a .307 win case guys:-) Fits perfectly! Do not reloade with a 308. I use them 307 to reaload my Winchester .356. It is impossible to get ammo for this rifle outside of the US. So if anyone have some ... please let me know. Both the 307. win and the .356 win is hard to get for anyone really. I think they dropped the .307 now... Sad.... :-) Keep up the good work Ron!

[@brianlee6849]

I'd like to see the 307 Winchester thrown into that mix. I think it without perform all of them. Thank you

[@ghunt09]

Hey Ron, love the videos on the 35 calibers. I hate we seem to be losing some of these excellent calibers. How about a video on the 338 federal. I consider it in the same family as some of the 35's even though its little smaller diameter. I like them instead of going up to the magnum calibers.

[@framinghammer9703]

If it's true, it's not true; if it's true, it's not new!

[@jasonbroom7147]

Very good video. Not mentioned for any of the cartridges are the excellent FTX (flex-tip) bullets and the LVR powder (for the 30/30 and 35 Remington). Those bullets, in combination with the LVR powder, add 50 to 100 yards worth of effective range for either of these classic lever-action cartridges.

[@RonSpomerOutdoors]

Thanks for this additional, valuable information, Jason.

[@waynestone6462]

I picked up a marlin chamberd in 356 Winchester . Paid Just 200 for it ! I just stare at it and smile. Ammo is hard to come by .

[@RonSpomerOutdoors]

Nice find, Wayne.

[@lawrencecardente533]

I owned a Winchester 356, it was very accurate and I'm sorry I sold it.

[@oldmangreywolf6892]

They did the same with the 7mm Mauser. They made a rimmed version for single shot rifles. Both my gun stores have the rimmed but nothing for standard.

[@cmiller1190]

I would really like to see the .375 Win and the .356 Win ammo & guns be available again. From what I can find, the majority of the straight wall rifle cartridge states do allow the .375 Win inspite of the cartridge length being longer than 1.8 inches. Also there are a number of states, Iowa included, who dropped the straight wall requirements, but have .35 caliber minimum requirement. Seems to me the door is wide open for Winchester to bring back the .356, the .358 & the .375's

[@toddhuff6007]

Winchester also had the .307 win. Marlin and hornady should bring them back with there LEVERevolution flex tip ammo and it would do really good with eastern deer/black bear hunters. Never understood why the .307 win never took off with the new angle eject M94AE it came out in. I remember seeing it in magazine advertisement when I was a teenager and wanted one in either .307win or .356win. But They seam to disappear only a few years later. But there and a lot of really good cartridges that shoulda , coulda , woulda been hits if not for introduced in the wrong firearm , wrong twist rate bad timing or just bad marketing. Just a few. .307win .356win .358win .264win mag .284win .244rem .280rem .6.5rem mag Plus all the RSAUM , WSM and WSSM short fats And the one I hurts more than any to see disappear is my all time favorite THE .220 swift. Let’s bring it back.

[@beverlychmelik5504]

Also the 356 case is a little thicker ar the base than the 358. The case capacity is a few grains less. I have one and grabbed ammo and cases as I find them.

[@TigerxrayLIB]

Great information. It’s nice to see a 94 356 Big Bore without a cross bolt safety. The way it was designed by JB. Shoot the attorneys.

[@johnfife3062]

The .32 Win Special is a good step up from the .30-30 -- about 10% more muzzle velocity.

[@oldgoat1890]

Good to know in case I shoot at a deer an inch away from the muzzle of the rifle.

[@HernanMoragaMmHs]

hey Ron, great video as always! I think you forgot the link for the hearing protection in the description. Cheers!

[@RonSpomerOutdoors]

Dang. I started to do that last night and got interrupted. Well, just google Tetra Alpha Shields.

[@johnshoureas1629]

@@RonSpomerOutdoors Second comes the hearing and third is forgetfulness.

[@georgemcarthur488]

348 Winchester!

[@REBELDAWG308]

I just did a video on my friends 356 win. Marlin 336ER. The ammo was from Winchester it was semi rimmed it shot just fine no issues. You can check it out on my channel.

[@briansearles4473]

I had a Model 94 in 356, got rid of it about 25 years ago. Lots of power, very hard on the shoulder. Used to reload it with 220 grn. Speer bullets but never could equal the factory 250 grain load. I liked the 180 grn. Speer best as it gave good power without beating my shoulder to death. I bought a Remlin 336 in 35 Rem in 2018. The 35 Rem is very pleasant to shoot compared to the 356 and I have a supply of 35 cal Speer bullets to use. I have not seen any 356 Win. for sale in many years and Winchester dropped the 250 grn load for it. Sad to say while I like the 35 Rem it will never equal the 356 power wise.

[@wadeparker6091]

I have always liked 35 Whellen. I thought a good battery of 3 rifles would be 25 06 30 06 and 35 hellen. After this video I may have to rethink my combo. 358 win. 35 Whellen 358 Norma mag. The 180 gr. and 200 gr. should do well in 358 win. The 225 gr for the whellen. The 225gr. 250gr. for 358 Norma mag. I live in the Pacific N.W. and don't get shots past 300yrds. once in awhile 400yrds. With good optics that should not be to much of a stretch. Its brushy here and I don't like to track game. I feel the two comb. listed would do most all things in North America. Love to hear your thoughts on these combinations. Love the pod. Good luck and good hunting.

[@williamkaiser8067]

As I understand things, the reason the .356 doesn't develop quite as much oomph as the .358 is that, due to being chambered in the m94, it had to be just a tad shorter than the .358. And the reason it can't keep up with the .358 is the blunt front of the bullet, due to being in that tubular magazine. True, it was chambered in other lever actions, but they were all box magazine levers (Savage m99 and win m88)

[@steelgila]

.30-30 CUP: 38,000. .356 Winchester: 52,000 same as .308 Win. What a great caliber for a high powered lever gun! Probably hard to find rifle or ammo in that. I had one in .444 Marlin a few years back. It was a tack-driver too(for me at any rate I could shoot a 2 or 3 incher off-hand at the handgun range and still can't shoot anything that well these days on my heels! Make no mistake those 20TH century Winchester Big Bores(.356, .375&.307) are the top of the lever-action food chain!

[@user-ku3is1on8n]

The 33 WCF was a good rifle in the 1886 .

[@mokiwun1607]

Maybe they should of called it the 356 Creedmore so suckers or umm people would buy them!

[@kylemason3612]

Hey, @RonSpomerOutdoors! Can you please make a video on Hornady's 30-30 160 grain FTX bullets? I think it would an interesting topic. I love your videos!

[@RonSpomerOutdoors]

Thanks Kyle. I'll try to get to that.

[@chrisblake1918]

I have this ancient Savage 99 in 30-30, and I have absolutely zero doubts in its capability out to 400. Now, 350/358? Ruger American Hunter.. 300 smooth, all day every day.

[@travisrobinson7922]

I'm not certain that the reason the rim was put on the 356 was simply to help with extraction. Look at the other cartridges used in lever action rifles. First is the 35Remington. It's never had a rim and as far as I know it has never needed a rim in any firearms in which it's ever been chambered. It's been used in automatics, pumps, bolt actions and of coarse the Marlin 336 and briefly in the Mossberg 472. Remember the timeless 358Win came out in the Winchester 88 and has been kept alive in the Browning BLR-81. Both of those and the lever action Queen, the Sako Finnwolf have never been chambered for a rimmed cartridge. Even most single shots don't necessitate a rimmed case anymore. Regardless of case design though, I love .35 caliber cartridges and lever actions to shoot them in. But I'm not completely sold out to lever actions or else I would be without my two 35Whelens, a Remington 7600 pump action and a CVA Scout single shot. Nor would I have my Remington788 left hand rifle that's been re-bored to 358Win or my 35Rem in a CVA Scout2. And I do have a Marlin335 in 35Rem and a BLR-81 in 358Win for my leveractions. I cannot remember ever seeing a 356 so I sent and older Marlin/Glenfield to JES Retiring and it came home as a 356Winchester. I'm looking forward to developing loads for it in the next few weeks. Long live the .358 Caliber rifles!!!

[@martinstiastny7679]

The 356 suffered from poor advertising. Certainly a good cartridge, but compared to a Browning BLR, it really doesn't make sense. With the Browning, you can use cartridges like the 30/06, 7mm Remington, and 300 Winchester. ** What would be nice, is if Winchester would reintroduce the model 88. Then you can use the 358 Winchester or 284. Just saying.

[@mattscott7037]

Model 88 in .284 would be amazing to reinstate. Levers are great handling rifles.

[@martinstiastny7679]

@@mattscott7037 Yes sir.

[@Mark-uq9km]

Boy-oh-Boy, you have my vote on that one. Maybe Savage could bring back the Model 99, too. This would be firearms heaven.

[@martinstiastny7679]

@@Mark-uq9km I think that's to much to hope for. * I do have a 99 that I'm going to have built into a treestand rifle. I'm going to have a couple of gold inlays on an engraved receiver that will be case hardened. All it takes is money (🤣🤣).

[@idaho4allguns836]

I remember in my younger years reading your articles in the Lewiston Morning Tribune..... As a typical Idaho hunter I started with lever action Winchester 30-30. Now I pretty much hunt with my longbow. Over the years I did get the calling to purchase a used Winchester 30-30. I just recently purchase a Henry Golden Boy in a 41 mag. Do you have any videos covering the 41 mag?

[@RonSpomerOutdoors]

Haven't worked with 41 Rem Mag since 1983, but I have a video on Henry rifles coming out this week.