The 7 SURPRISING Ways To Heal Trauma WITHOUT MEDICATION | Dr. Bessel Van Der Kolk

Download my FREE Breathing Guide HERE: bit.ly/3WbGHUw
My guest today is someone who I’ve been wanting to speak to for a very long time. Dr Bessel van der Kolk is a professor of psychiatry at Boston University School of Medicine and President of the Trauma Research Foundation in Massachusetts.
CAUTION: This conversation contains themes of an adult nature and references to sexual assault.
#feelbetterlivemore
-----
Show notes available at: drchatterjee.com/336
Connect with Dr van der Kolk:
Website www.besselvanderkolk.com/
Facebook thebodykeeps...
Instagram thebodykeep...
Trauma Research Foundation traumaresearchfoundation.org/
Dr van der Kolk’s book:
The Body Keeps the Score: Mind, Brain and Body in the Transformation of Trauma amzn.to/40RWYBp
#feelbetterlivemore #feelbetterlivemorepodcast
-------
Sign up to my new newsletter - Friday Five drchatterjee.com/fridayfive
Order Happy Mind Happy Life. UK version amzn.to/304opgJ, US & Canada version amzn.to/3DRxjgp
Feel Great Lose Weight is available to order in the UK amzn.to/2W6bsOE and in the US & Canada amzn.to/2GWPgls
Dr Chatterjee’s book Feel Better in 5 is out now in the UK amzn.to/2G0XK7l and in the US and Canada amzn.to/2EB2oM0
Order Dr Chatterjee’s book The Stress Solution amzn.to/2MZ8u8h
Find Dr Chatterjee’s 4 Pillars of Health in The 4 Pillar Plan available via amzn.to/2yGfpuB
The US version, How to Make Disease Disappear is available via amzn.to/2Gj1YEL
-----
Listen to all previous podcast episodes on drchatterjee.com/podcast or via these podcast platforms by searching for 'Feel Better, Live More'.
Apple Podcasts apple.co/feelbetterlivemore
Acast www.acast.com/feelbetterlivemore
Stitcher www.stitcher.com/podcast/feel...
Spotify open.spotify.com/show/6NyPQfc...
-----
Follow Dr Chatterjee at:
Website: drchatterjee.com/
Facebook: drchatterjee
Twitter: drchatterjeeuk
Instagram: drchatterjee
Newsletter: drchatterjee.com/subscription
DISCLAIMER: The content in the podcast and on this webpage is not intended to constitute or be a substitute for professional medical advice, diagnosis, or treatment. Never disregard professional medical advice or delay in seeking it because of something you have heard on the podcast or on my website.

[Jelly Belly Fun]

12:40 He nailed it. A trauma-informed school system is absolutely necessary. That would reduce bullying and gun violence. Even the medical system should be built based on a trauma-informed system.

[Zineb Aj]

We also need trauma informed workplace. Because somehow adults are expected to be responsible of their lives and as grown up they should have already dealt with their trauma and healed.

[yeah.what]

Let’s think of what a trauma-informed approach in medicine and schools and prisons would look like. Society could be transformed. Something to think about for the future.

[Tara Lila Rose]

A G True but they'll be dead soon

[Toblinski_14]

No way....that would be too Communistic!! Just ask any gun owner!! ( f.f.s!! ) No...go on...ask them! God help America!

[Mystery Diaz]

I’ve done yoga, tai chi …and everything under the sun. I believe I order to heal trauma you need to tell your story out loud and be heard, felt and seen.

[Trauma-based Birdfeederman]

That's why it's so hard for targeted individuals, cos 99.99% are so eager to dismiss them as "delusional" etc, so the top level abusers in power don't have to be acknowledged for their horrendous crimes.

[Sayusayme🦋]

Wow, 💚

[Michele Bergman]

Yes I agree! Find people who are Truly Compassionate & actually care about u healing

[Really There]

100 yesssssssss well said and true. Seen heard and believed ❤

[Andrea Rovenski]

really appreciate how the show starts RIGHT into the conversation instead of doing a long introduction. Really great.

[Jelly Belly Fun]

Agree

[Bonnie Kusch]

I appreciate it too.

[Squirrel 2020]

Lol you hatin on lex?

[Andrea Rovenski]

@Squirrel 2020 never watched the guy, not into most podcasts

[Gordan Freeman]

Hello yes

[Cody Harmon]

I never leave comments, but when he stated that practitioners needs to be aware of how traumatizing medications and procedures can be while not acknowledging the patient experience hit home very, very hard for me. I absolutely admire this man.

[Robert Schacter]

This is at the heart of my most recent and seemingly difficult trauma. It occurred during a botched hip revision surgery. It left my left knee numb yet feeling burning and throbbing. The numb muscles atrified and I can't walk without pain and a limp. I can't run ....

[Robert Schacter]

Furthermore, I have had 2 back surgeries and 3 hip replacements within the past 5 years 😢

[NFTeve Crypto Vision]

Yeah. That was more trauma for me. Yoga and other things are so much better.

[Stellaria]

@Robert Schacterthat is a lot to deal with 💔 i hope you experience some recovery and better health 🙏

[Liz Gen]

At 26:21, brought tears to my eyes! It's not my fault that I have felt misunderstood, as the medical system is not designed to support complex/trauma related issues. Thank you so much for this interview. I feel I can be more patient and persistent in getting the help I need. ❤️🙏

[ChellyVision]

If you haven't already, you may want to tell your Dr.. I saw more changes in my Dr and my care plan and more understanding from my primary care doctor.. after I told him I was a victim of an SA. I went to counseling before that, and she helped me get to the point I could tell my Dr. It matters. Good luck.

[Ria Swift]

Go to people who understand and remove trauma....the field of ENERGY MEDICINES. Light years beyond medicine...LIGHT YEARS!!!

[Dani]

@ChellyVision @Chelly I'm so sorry. Never, ever give up. Keep changing dr until finding 1 that fits your needs. If it helps, I would strongly recommend educating yourself about your symptoms, and condition here on KZbin. Then, look up information for a local doctor, therapist, specialist, anything that you need in your area. Doctors are only people limited by their training programs and/or by their own personal experiences, curiosity and willingness to stay up to date with the latest developments. The greatest challenge in science, is that almost every month there is a new study, new research new discoveries.

[Jules Meyeri]

Good vibes coming 2 U from me 😊

[Jules Meyeri]

Hang in there 😊

[Nina C]

I have a history of severe childhood trauma and read 'the body keeps the score' when it first came out in 2014. (A brilliant book) Videos like this are much needed as they shed light on a subject that is often shrouded in secrecy, bringing with it much needed understanding of the impact of trauma on sufferers as well as offering insight to those surrounding them.

[Mikaela]

I can relate and thanks for mentioning the book

[Tara Lila Rose]

Yes Nina! Ditto!

[Terelyn Melling]

Thanks for sharing your experience. Is this book available on video and or Utube please

[Kathy Ashton]

🌸💚🙏💜🧚‍♀️

[Tara Lila Rose]

@Let It Roll I'm so sorry sweetheart. Have you tried God, deliverance??? Somatic healing, EMDR, tapping, praying, journaling. It's a lot of work but it's never too late and you deserve healing, salvation, peace. You can do it. Believe in yourself and claim your miracle from Almighty God!

[Julia Freeflow]

If more doctors were like Dr. Rangan the world would quite literally be a different place. IT STARTS WITH EDUCATION, if more medical students were taught about trauma and how it relates to physical health and chronic pain I genuinely think that we could come to some kind of medium where patient and doctor are doing their best to work together. The medical system is literally fighting and penalizing traumatized individuals bc there is not enough education on the complexity of trauma, past and present, and how it can and will impact our health

[Jo Barton]

So very true!!

[Robert Schacter]

❤❤😢😢

[Frances Bernard]

IT (recovery from trauma) or I.T. Both starts with education. Not just only mysterious looking hardware sometimes found in burn pits too.

[Drew Hurst]

The medical system doesn't just generally ignore trauma, it generally ignores nutrition also, I think the point that we admit the system has become focused on profit over healing has been crossed. The Dr may ask "Do You drink alcohol or take drugs?", but wouldn't a better question be, "Are You affected by anyone's use of drugs or alcohol in the home or in your relationships?" Is a diabetic patient tested for low potassium levels or are they just being put on insulin for life? We can do better but We better hurry up before People lose any remaining faith in allopathic medicine all together.

[Nadine]

I have complex-PTSD from childhood trauma, and "The Body Keeps the Score" is a book that i believe everyone who has trauma should read. It helps explain why we react to the world in the way we do. What part of the brain is involved and why. It's definitely needed in conjunction with multiple therapies.

[Nebel_Slayn]

Would EMDR work for this? I feel like, since it targets a particular trauma rather than repeated ones, it may work for traditional PTSD but not CPTSD. Curious what your experience was/is!

[Vie Ella]

@Nebel_Slayn I am 63 yo. I've been doing online EMDR w my therapist on my trauma. I've had 5 sessions. It is working...the first thing ever to work for me.

[Annie sampson]

Totally agree with all that is being discussed. I set up my own natural therapies safe place "a time for you" and I would only see one person on a day. Allowing them the whole day, as long as they needed, no cut off time this is crucial ; no limits. I created a therapy room that was like stepping out of this world, very serene, beautiful , along with peaceful calming music this helped people to open up and I would hear them say to me " I have never told anyone this before" !! and they would off load deep trauma, Then I would use aromatherapy massage, reflexology, healing to help to relax the body and mind. Then I would end each session with total relaxation with me talking them through their body ultra slowly and relaxing every muscle and creating a mind free of worry. Everyone seemed to leave walking on air it made me so happy to see.

[Shanti Cahn]

Annie Sampson ~ how exquisitely helpful, compassionate, thoughtfully thorough! You certainly seem to have “ got it goin’ on”, my dear thank you for allowing the Spirit of Life to move through you into such useful action ~ serving our brothers & sisters as you would yourself love to be treated! May we all work to bless one another just so! 🪬🌎🌏🌍 ✨🥰✨… pura vida

[CandyAustin]

Sounds like heaven!!!!❤

[mary]

Wow. U really think outside the box! What a wonderful approach...so caring & comforting.

[please don't eat the animals]

That sounds wonderful! Even made me relax a bit just reading about it. 😊

[Dani]

@Annie thank you so much for giving such a special gift of caring, kindness, support and love to each person the universe /God /whatever you want to call it gives the opportunity and blessing to come to you. My thought is, with you too. May you take care of yourself too. Replenish your energy. Refueling your body and spirit with nourishment, and restoring to your fullest potential. Blessings 🙏🫶🪷🌟🌷

[Kathleen Kiddo]

The real tragedy here is that we don’t realize when someone is traumatized and we often make it worse by taking things personally but using this perspective our relationships would be changed. This talk had a greater impact up on me than reading the book 3 times. Thank you!

[Jelly Belly Fun]

What is evil, cruel and ignorant about society is how most people blame the victims of traumatic events of having CPTSD & PTSD. That is like blaming a victim of a car accident or assault who ended up with broken limbs, and humiliating them for that limb not being whole and healthy, and for not walking/running within a year of that broken limb/s.

[Be Real]

100%, I was diagnosed cptsd and later ptsd as everything compounded but as the doctor said based on how you're then treated can either ameliorate or increase the trauma further, for me it's the latter and I've gotten sick. Blaming people is abhorrent. Those who go through trauma and become narcissistic are the types who then perpetrate harm on others by blaming and shaming or ignoring or belittling others trauma because they lack empathy ✌

[Margaret J. Ellis]

WHAT? I have personally experienced those events and no one treated me that way. I'm also diagnosed PTSD.

[roll your dice]

Always. Because traumatized people reminds them of what they do not control and for most that makes them insecure

[Joy Winfree]

Believe me, I was crippled severely 18 years disabled. People treat CRIPPLED people like crap.

[Pippi Barbieri]

Blame, shame, guilt and needless worrying just perpetuates and projects our issue onto others- oftentimes victims can become victimizers- it can s a cycle v based on the story of the separate self, which is a myth

[La Musica]

Sexual abuse trauma was surprisingly common, I was surprised how many women ( and sometimes men) confided in me about this when I was in my 20s. Parental trauma was not so common, I felt quite isolated when I realised most of my friends didn't have anything like my experience

[Waters Breedlove]

No one can hear about parental abuse, even seeing the damage is often not enough to convince those with non-abusive parents.

[Drew Hurst]

Decent Humans do care so there is always hope, You are All heard and believed here. Your desire to do what is needed to heal, and never give up, is all that is needed. Take the advice of this wonderful Dr and Guest and of the Guest coming up too, Gabor Mate, and things will improve greatly. Finally coming out of 17 years of chronic pain, and a lifetime of trauma, these past few weeks, never give up. When We heal, We heal the World too.

[Mellie Crann-Gaoth]

@Waters Breedlove that is a thought to very much consider.

[Cheri Matthew]

I was a victim of childhood trauma and a very troubled youth with a lot of drug abuse and sexual promiscuity. When I was a young a adult I experienced more abuse at the hands of very awful medical “professionals” when I began having children. I was pregnant 5 times and had 2 live births. My experiences were traumatic to say the least and wound up with fibromyalgia. I am now 67 and have been trying to find relief from the pain for so long I have resigned myself to live with it. Over the years of trying to find a cure I have experienced a lot of shrugs and dismissal of my ongoing issues. It wasn’t until I began exploring the impact of trauma with Dr Teitelbaum, Dr Van der Kolk, Thomas Hübl, Dr Gabor Mate and others. The memories of the trauma resurfaced and allowed me to step back from the pain and learn way to calm my nervous system and find some measure of healing. Thank you for your understanding, care and for sharing your knowledge. Now I am able to help children, youth and parents overcome their trauma especially inter generational trauma and how their families histories have impacted them. Thank you 🙏

[JustinRM]

As a social worker, 24:00 really resonated with me. The frustration caused by poor management, budget cuts and what I presume to be intentional obstructing in progress of beter treatment/care turns you bitter. Not everyone reacts that way, but I certainly do and it's led me to find a better paying, less stressful job. I came into the field with good intentions a bright, young man, and left bitter and disillusioned. I hope mankind can eventually ascend to a more inclusive, responsible society - only time will tell. I will focus my attention where I can make a difference, but hard work like dr. van der Kolk does will always be necessary to progress further.

[takeflight]

What do you do now?

[JustinRM]

@takeflight I have my own company. Still healthcare related, but I determine what jobs/challenges I accept and set my own rate and working hours/schedule. Not having to see the same people everyday has been a blessing in the sense of regaining hope for healthcare. Workers become hospitalized fast, so it’s important to keep a fresh perspective and try new things.

[Sayusayme🦋]

Beautiful

[Jeni McKenna]

Bessel, your book which came out in 2014 is in our library - 3 copies - and has a waiting list of 28 people (9 years after it came out !) thank you both 💕

[MrVic144]

Same in sweden . It is a popular book.

[S G]

So grateful for this interview. After doing neurofeedback, tapping & some others I'm finally listening to this audiobook & will work through the workbook next. It helps to understand the whys & hows of a serene life after trauma. Thank you!

[Itzak Poelzig]

Did neurofeedback help you? And if so, what condition did it help with? I'm thinking of trying that next.

[Cozumel Liz]

Trauma affects those in a society who want to forget...brilliant!!! And so true. AS a therapist working to have clients deal with their abuse is hard enough. Not getting support from their community can re-victimize over and over. Teaching clients to feel empoweref and be praised for their copng skills while offering curative treatment is magical when you see the transición. Dr van Der kolk. You have been one of my héroes and your first book guided me into a whole new dirección. Blessings to both of you

[Bill Miller]

As someone who just spent 18 days in the hospital, I REALLY appreciate that you brought up the lack of trauma training in med school! This has to change!!

[Be Real]

Oh wow, this is serendipity, I'm going through something that has kicked off all prior life traumas. I'm cracking under the pressure. It's like this popped up to help me in my biggest moment of need. Excellent video thank you ✌

[An Humble Messenger of the Law of One]

_get some hypnotherapy; it's the best treatment available. Just need a qualified practitioner. Take care, love_

[Winnie Thuo]

​ Please, take note of the clear message that there is help out there but not one fits all; with love

[Magick1969]

Oh man! Sending you love. I hope it all coming up helps you heal!

[ktpuss]

Hey your comment jumped out at me, as exactly same here and I’m struggling in the same way but also very aware that it’s definitely trauma, I’m going to try hard to actually do just a couple of these things. Of all the videos on YT on trauma this one’s the most helpful and possible sounding…hope you’re doing ok this week.

[Marnee]

Same ❤

[Nicky]

I’ve been on a journey to heal my trauma for many years now and I’ve never heard anyone bring together all the threads of info as well as this podcast. Bravo

[Angela C]

I wish everyone would see this. We need mandatory trauma training for teachers/ schools AND all of healthcare, police and public service positions . Excellent interview.

[NVB]

As a Dutch person the Dutch accent of Wessel is unmistakable haha. What a gem this guy is. So wise and to the point❤

[1010papillon]

I'm not Dutch, but I'm married to one, and the interview was indeed very enjoyable and comforting to listen to because of the accent :)

[Yvette Walker]

EMDR saved my life! I had severe anxiety with panic attacks and EMDR brought my traumatic event back to my consciousness! I am still trying to recover from my fibromyalgia (pain can be a form of self-punishment) but my anxiety is almost 100% gone which is a true miracle! Thank you drs for your compassion and help that you offer your patients and this information for us!

[Мыкола Нетребко]

I'm glad you are feeling better. Your comment on self punishment caught my attention. What are some ways to figure out why we self punish and how to stop that?

[Yvette Walker]

@Мыкола Нетребко when we subconsciously feel guilty or responsible for our trauma in my case I was told it was my fault when I was sexually abused at 4! The body holds trauma and manifests in different sickness or conditions. They say deep massage yoga meditation tai chi etc can help. Do EMDR too

[Jo Jo]

Very interesting. Please How can pain be a punishment. I have never heard of this. I have alot of pain in shoulder. No scan can find out why. Why can the past bring pain. I'd be happy at long last if it wasn't for this pain.

[Yvette Walker]

@Jo Jo trauma and so many emotions are held in the body.

[Medleyofmedia]

So glad you had a talk with Dr. Bessel. If I could give a thousand thumbs up I would. This was one of the best interviews I have seen with him. I credit that to you and how you interview your guests.

[Louise Lawson]

Watching this has been so healing. I have been gaslit all my life by medical professionals.. and I just can’t do it any more. I’m done. And this was so reassuring. I can do things to heal myself.

[M J]

Trauma leads to a disconnect that then either gets worked on or not based on clarity, opportunities, environment, habits, self care and community Humiliation despair shame and fear can be difficult to get past. Exercise being outside in the light and air and a healthy diet really helped me

[Purposely Organic]

Gods nature heals IJN

[BlissBrain ASMR]

This idea that patients who make doctors react with anger and frustration are the traumatized patients, really made sense. In fact in life, those who seem to appear mean and cantancherous are likely unhealed trauma survivors. It helps me have compassion, as I run the other way. I wish I knew how to turn off my fear of these mean people so I could look at them with true compassion (instead of being automatically (re)activated by their sparks.

[Sunnyday]

It’s okay that doc’s got frustrated with me- I just started reading and learning on my own . I took the advice of a smart lady about my hashimotos - and I change what i do with advice from my naturopathic doc - and my other docs - I think so much of my problem was my food sensitivities and leaky gut. I have realized I can’t just eat much - am trying more intermittent fasting and may cut lectins - and also may try keto - it’s all with consulting my docs too. I found better docs and better resources.

[Janset B.]

Maybe the doctors should also get help with their own unhealed traumas.. that would really help with giving the patient enough space to process their anger during the session without being shamed for it even further by the doctors reaction..

[Be Real]

@Janset B. 100% agree, drs often set off a patients prior trauma. It works the other way too and drs are in a position of power and authority

[BlissBrain ASMR]

@Sunnyday good for you, you are on the right path. I wonder how many psychiatric 'conditions' are really just leaky gut... As for me and those I know who are sensitive, by ignoring the food marketing scams and following more natural and traditional foods and herbs/cures, is the only way to go for long term conditions.

[Peri Helion]

Thank you for this! I've read and reread the book "the body keeps the score", yet I feel that I've learnt so much from this illuminating conversation. Thank you both for your phenomenal work!

[AC King]

This man's work had been life changing. If you have complex PTSD you have to read his book. Also The Body Remembers, by Babette Rothschiild. Working with a somatic psycho-therapist, using these books has transformed my reactions to everyday situations, to the triggers that were once dibilitating.

[Michele Finizio]

Thank you so much for this podcast I believe doctors should be honest and sympathetic with their patients who do not have answers concerning their illnesses. Doctors do not know everything they should be more humble and sympathetic with their patients instead of proud and uncaring

[Jelly Belly Fun]

Yes, ALL doctors should be TRAINED to be honest and humble enough outwardly and admit to their patients and other doctors that they are continually learning, that they don't know everything.

[shahilagh]

Proud of what?!!😅😮😮😮

[Alv Odin]

I agree, but preaching doesn't change people. Inform the system and academia. The problem is, when we do implement say "trauma informed care", it becomes a business, a gimmick. Telling people who don't care to care, doesn't work. It has to change from the bottom up. Or else it will be a gimmick,half assed. When enough middle class people know what's going on with trauma, eventually the elite might soften cause they have no choice. We, normal people must first spread the message to the common folk.

[Alv Odin]

Jelly Belly Fun@ you can't train people to be honest and humble, that would be dishonest and not humble. They would imitate being humble, but that wouldn't be what we want? We need to be what we want others to be, if we do it kindly and they feel safe, they just mirror our behavior and spread that humbleness and honesty. This starts from childhood. We can't train dishonest people to be honest.

[grandma bear]

​@Alv Odinisn't it called ethics? Teaching the value of honesty and the value of being humble can inform the uniformed.

[Joannie Muskett]

When Bessel talked about theatre roles, I got goosebumps all over! I used to act a lot and was really good at it.. it really helped me 'play out' certain emotional states and allowed me to perform in roles where I could explore certain personalities.. I just love the way he encompasses the somatic modalities I've just started learning about... Thank you!

[Nicola Loder]

Thank you so much from the bottom of my heart for being so kind and loving and for putting your energies into the deep fragility those of us living with trauma manage every day. I can't honour and salute you both enough.

[Kallista Chayil BA MA]

I have been an EFT (Emotional Freedom Technique) practitioner for 20 years. It was thrilling and empowering to see him reference EFT (aka tapping) several times in his book. I've seen EFT be hugely effective in my own life and that of my clients. As the trauma clears, we become empowered individuals capable of so much more.

[sunsita]

I've heard of it but didn't realize it had such backing. Thank you for sharing!

[caroline leneghan]

Whar is it that would make tapping effective? I just don't understand it and how it would work

[Kallista Chayil BA MA]

@caroline leneghan You are welcome to come to my open sessions. The tapping (acupuncture without needles) works along the body's energy meridians in conjunction with the phrases that play into the subconscious. studies demonstrate that the results are not just subjective but can be demonstrated with MRI scans, blood work (drop in cortisol levels,...).

[Kallista Chayil BA MA]

@sunsita There have been over 200 studies and likely soon over 300 studies that show it's effectiveness. I have visuals with the results on my website. Unfortunately I can't upload them here. Not only are the results there but also long lasting thus it is a cost effective modality as it truly works.

[Beba Mayer]

Right brain, left brain excersizes

[Debra Sellitti]

Dear Sirs, thank you for speaking the truth about trauma. I couldn’t understand myself or why I couldn’t do life. And thank you for your work that helps to set ourselves free.

[Mitzi Sinnott]

Dr. Rangan so grateful that you're doing what you can to bring 'western medicine" into awareness and acceptance that trauma truly impacts our bodily health. The sooner the education for medical students and current practicing doctors expand their efforts to this, the sooner more people can find health and homeostasis!

[NB]

Gosh I am so thankful for you and that you're taking the time to speak about these matters and share important information to help listeners which might be affected by trauma understand more about what happens and to learn there are things which really can help.

[Honour Gardiner]

I'm so glad I came across this! Thank you SO much! Around 12 mins in and already I feel relieved to know someone understands and can explain why anxiety and stress takes over some of our lives. Interesting to hear stratagies etc!

[Janine Smith]

Wow, I’m glad you’ve address this subject. I’ve been working with people it seems I can spot it right off the bat and I worked with them by gently taking them back to relive it in a safe environment. We relive resolve and forgive. The body ailments and sicknesses are great clues to where people are stuck. Thanks for bringing this all to the public !!💖💫🙏

[Winnie Thuo]

I have a friend who is fibromyalgia and the description of it here fits like Cindarella and her shoe. Oh my, I wish that this understanding of trauma will merge within our psyche and mutate us all into healing. Then we shall be capable of doing anything not to cause trauma to anyone. As a parent and a mother's help for a job, I see it daily how challenging it is to live a pure life where love dominates, making it possible to combat daily challenges of parenthood that present themselves due to our unique interpretation; but I am grateful to these kind of insights into the body that is the trauma, stress, anger, failure etcetera because they strengthen me in my job and enable me reduce suffering on a daily basis even tho it's just on the surface most of the time as they are deep rooted where I do not have what it takes to get to the bottom. I feel I help by restoring the moment and by not adding more to the grief. I hope that is what I archive.

[Amber Inthemist]

This comment was really beautiful. Thank you for your insight.

[Tru Win]

Medical trauma will make you lose your identity. During covid isolation and spending hours online and tiktok because of previous medical trauma & sexual assault led me questioning my identity & sexuality. I needed to focus on reality & biology and nature and practice mindfulness. Thank you. Excellent content.

[peacefulislandgirl]

AA has been doing group therapy for over 80 years now. It works for many, and if it doesn't it at least gives people a feeling of being accepted and understood on one point: being alcoholic. Knowing another can relate is priceless. Without that, the patient or client becomes the teacher, and that isn't what is needed. We can also mind the unintentional suggestion that medical professionals aren't susceptible to to the same challenges as everyone else. Having experience in trauma and addiction (treated) ought to be considered as credit when going to school or applying for jobs in particular fields.

[TractorPoodle]

Both of you have enormous professional courage to discuss the shortcomings of the medical system in dealing with trauma. Paradoxically, your discussion is also advancing the potential for the current medical system to treat trauma.

[Beth Alpert]

What Bessel describes here of how the doctors get mad at their patients, happened to me with several different doctors. Then I would go home and have so much distress it was unbearable. I searched and searched for answers because I didn't want to stay that way. I don't trust doctors anymore, I listen to my body. I found the answers to make myself well, the doctors only caused me more trauma and pain.

[Jo Barton]

Amazing conversation and so great to hear a doctor wanting to understand and know more and how to support patients. Thank you both ❤

[isabel mulvihill]

Absolutely love this episode. As a person who is open to ways of healing outside of the norm of " a pill to fix everything" . I have personally explored and have had great outcomes from doing the outside of the box ways of childhood and my life truamas. Broken to enjoying life.

[Sarah Krytenberg]

Thank you Dr for your very prepared questions. You obviously put some effort into knowing your subject ahead of time so you could ask informed questions for us as the listeners.

[JournaHealing]

There is one reading that has allowed me to heal and find myself again despite depression, anxiety and panic attacks. The book is called " Everything Will be Fine I promise". It's a read I recommend to anyone who wants to heal and find the courage to change their life. I wish everyone you can heal from the past 🌱🥀🌺

[Yellow Limes]

I was meant to hear this conversation. Thank you for helping me dig deep to understand where my trauma had developed from. Powerful talk.

[LARONDA BOURN]

Regarding reasons trauma isn’t discussed: You don’t know anything is unusual. Our family consisted of my mother, a stepfather old enough to be my grandfather, my half-brother 9 years younger than me, and me. Absolutely NO other family. And no friends. My stepfather was so passive that we barely noticed him and my mother was emotionally abusive and would often punish me by ignoring my completely and ranting about my failures (no matter how small), and assigning blame regardless of my participation in something. I knew it hurt. I knew she was mean. But although it hurt, I had no reason at all to think it wasn’t just the way our particular was so unhealthy! And I had no one to help me escape, while my mother frequently told me I “could leave if I didn’t like it.” I grew up helpless and hopeless and consequently dependent. In fact I had no reason to think for myself because the only one who knew the rules was my mother, and she always won - even if it meant cheating.

[peacefulislandgirl]

Over the years one of the things I've been taught is that other people or situations don't "make me" react in any particular way. They are simply catalysts; potential triggers. No one can make me have a bad day, or be in a bad mood. The same with joy. It's all about how I choose to hold any moment, and the way I orient my life. Another bit to keep in mind is most of us westerners have to unlearn extreme independence. We've been raised with the goal of leaving home as quickly as possible (most of us) whether we're prepared or not. Failure to get out and have our own home is, well, failure. Now a few folks are seeing that exercising, watching movies, playing games, cooking 'together' is really great for health and mental well-being. Funny how easily that was all dismissed.

[iconsnart]

Dr Bessel van der Kolks book The body keeps the score turned my life-long suffering! So much abuse of all kinds, and so much loss. He is so right about the importance of having comfort , care, acknowledgement. My cptsd ruled my life, isolated me. Education by Bessel (and his likes) gave me hope, enlightment and empowered me to heal. Weened of my meds, and got clear to figure things out. Its not easy but worth every single babystep. Found the real me. Bessel has all my respect and gratitude 🙏

[aquarius star72]

Thank you! His book is on my must-read list. This interview gives me a sneak preview! I love the way you summarize his concepts and put them into various contexts and perspectives. It gave the discussion more depth and layers than I could imagine.

[Sayusayme🦋]

So very grateful to see the beginnings of the medical community seeing the cracks in care. Whole approach that will ripple through the world creating healing simply by not info rin or judging what many are ashamed to see, never mind admit. Love this so much, thank you.

[Janine F]

Absolutely fantastic episode! Definitely a must-watch for anyone who's struggling. (This from someone who overcame Fibromyalgia after 28 years. It's possible!)

[Maria Flanigan]

Wow! That is an impressive achievement @janeenerbaneener

[Christine T]

❤✨ What worked for you?? I’m a Fibro sufferer for 3 years now… don’t want to go into old age with this. 😅

[C L]

In many instances docs are also trained in medical school to be snide and dismissive of people reporting symptoms that do not match what the doctor expects. It takes a lot of confidence to be a doctor, but unfortunately many slip into arrogance.

[J-F La]

A few thoughts here:1- Most of the time there is at least one upside to a darkside and I think we can spare a few if not many (darksides) by living a different life style as a society. 2- It is easier to raise strong children than to repair broken adults. 3- Behave toward others as you would like others to behave toward you. As a society if the golden rule would be culturally integrated rule things would be quite different among us, it would be also different also between most countries.

[Ali D]

Two of my favorite doctors, right here. So many clinical pearls, gentlemen, thank you for sharing your experience, wisdom and compassion.

[Cuiositycola]

I couldn't love this conversation more! Both amazing guys with such a beautiful worldview. I read Bessel's book a few years ago and found it incredible

[Helen Ryan]

This is an excellent interview with thought out questions very clearly answered. The best podcast you have ever done.

[1010papillon]

I agree that group therapies and social activities can be very helpful, but I think that a lot of caution and sensitivity has to be employed because engaging with others might be incredibly challenging for people. I think that a lot of people are going to need some preliminary work done with them individually to even prepare them for those social interactions that could be healing, but without preparation might end up being deeply upsetting. That's also where I see an immensely important role for technology to play. It can help people who cannot engage with others because of mental or physical barriers. Preferably it's going to only be a stepping stone to get out there and engage with people in real life, but I think it's very important to acknowledge that for example physical disability is a thing, and all of the methods mentioned in the interview are going to be made so much more complicated for disabled people. If trauma is an inability to move and act to improve your situation, then disability is going to have a huge potential to be inherently traumatizing - since it limits your options so much in so many aspects of life. But then if movement is healing, it's also going to make it so much harder to recover, both because the movement-based treatments might be inaccessible themselves, and because the locations and the communities where you can access other people to engage in them with might be inaccessible as well.

I have only listened to 7min 21 so far and I am already in tears because it rings so true what's being said...!

[Theresa Kohler-Ruda]

As a person who has a very sensitive brain membrane, i.e. glucose, artificial sweeteners, lack of rest, emotional upsets, excessive workout sessions, hormones 1st 3 days of menstrual cycle - could and would often be triggering factors for migraines and stiffness TMJ. Massage work did help, fasting helped immensely as does a steady diet of healthy food. No sugar... only easy clean whole grains when I know the energy will be burned. Learned that greens are key!

[Nishi Ramkhelawan]

My constant psycho-analysis now makes so much more sense. Thank you for this podcast, God bless.

[Jelly Belly Fun]

I REALLY appreciate that Dr. Bessel corrected the host when he tried to make a statement Dr. Bessel did not say or mean. I REALLY surprised and shocked at how little the host knows about trauma. That proves how little physicians know about trauma, so that shows up in how they interact with patients.

[Lilou Philips]

Absolutely. PTSD related trauma has generally nothing to do with emotional trauma caused by divorce or other life events although they might be very hurtful. PTSD is caused by acute traumatic events (rape, agression, car accident, …) which leaves the victime totally devastated. Nightmares, flashbacks, poor sleep, sleep apnea, neuronal hyper vigilance… I didn’t find the hosts questions very helpful.

[Body Calm - Nurturing the Mind and Body]

Yes true. I can get a lifetime of visuals and feeling that gut wrenching sensation.. cute that Dr Bessel recommended tango could be a method! I have a toolbox of self care and it’s a major part of my day. Literally scheduled. Work in progress!❤

[Alicia Bolton]

What are you talking about? Did we listen to the same conversation?

[Angela]

I'm this way and thank you so soooo much for helping me understand. I am stuck in flight and fight most of the time or at a high degree of anxiety and depression agitation etc all the time. I've been basically shewed out of or else a conflict occurred in all the appointments with doctors last year. They see auto immune signals but i feel their frustration and i get retraumatized again...And, long covid, which i have,, does this too to doctors and I'm sure the system is not prepared. I'm so isolated. And untrusting of everyone. I really don't want to feel this way and I'm taking steps to learn how to reconnect. Just slot of mental and emotional abuse from an early age from parents and siblings. Then a series of dysfunctional relationships. Life sure does require healing and many of us who learn to heal from trauma can help others, children and adults.

[Mary Molloy]

You are excellent Dr.Rangan . I so appreciate everything you do . Love all your interviews .

[GOTL8]

I spent 17 years in state care, and the transition from being an orphan has been the most difficult situation I’ve had to overcome. I seem to be aimless, living in the USA…where compassion is a weakness. I don’t belong anywhere.

[Cheri Ellis]

So incredibly delighted to see this info coming out ..... and by medical authorities❤️ THANKYOU!

[artsguru 1]

I am exactly the patient Dr Chatterjee describes at26:00ending, “I don’t want to stay like this forever.” Have been trying to find relief from my trauma symptoms since the Covid pandemic began (my feelings of vulnerability led me to reflect more closely on the impact past events had had on my life) and am coming to the conclusion that, after forty years in the dissociative state Dr Van de Kolkata talks about earlier, my chances of any significant healing are next to nothing. All I’m left with is the application of ‘sticking plaster’ solutions to assist me when my nervous system is overwhelmed. If you suffer catastrophic injury of any kind, you can’t expect to entirely recover.

[MIa Du Plessis]

This session has really helped me. I always lived by pretending nothing has happened. It caught up with me in the end. Thank you

[Daniel denis Sisea]

for me driving the car and the fact that you are behind the wheel and move your eyes left and right is exactly a form of emdr...and that's why I think it calms the nervous system somehow! only not completely as the emdr session does because when driving the car the nervous system tends to go up due to concentration and observational focus

[Sania Assaf]

I appreciate your willingness to bring attention to the retraumatizing that often takes place in your industry. Thank you for being brave.

[Ms Maddie]

Trauma is not only physical but also emotional and verbal but I also believe that it can be hereditary, in other words you can pass it on to your children, both from mother and father. Trauma is acquired from just living life because anything can be traumatic, JMO. I also read an article on the trauma of the survivors of the Holocaust and the survivors African American slavery and how their trauma was passed on to their future generations.

[M Simon]

There are genes for long term PTSD.

[Ellen Beebe]

In my experience through hypnotherapy, experiencing extreme trauma is important to healing. But the biggest take away are the “angels” that helped me through. And the knowledge I figured it out, and I thrived!!! My instincts were superior in many ways, although blind in many ways, but I am amazed at how smart I was during early childhood. Just a miracle….

[Itzak Poelzig]

Do you mean that your hypnotherapist helped you to re-experience an extreme trauma from your past?

[Akshay Kumar]

What do you mean? Why would anyone want to experience extreme trauma?

[Anne Murphy]

@Akshay Kumar I realized that the horrific nightmares, body memories and flashbacks that I was having on a daily basis were my allies, they were trying to help me. I was so afraid of these trauma effects that they grew in intensity. I tried to make them stop and I tried to avoid them. I have D.I.D and tried to deny all parts of myself that held trauma. I have now learned to stay with what is happening, kind of like surfing a wave. I'm a part of a whole system that was created for survival. The memories, sensations and emotions that had been dissociated are all coming back to all of us in our system so we can be whole. They are the the parts of what I experienced that I couldn't cope with. Our system is learning to accept and be the love that we are.

[Mariza Vocisano]

What really resonated is learning to live in your body and it’s distress I have panic disorder from trauma I think my medication is keeping me from feeling pleasure at the cost of suppressing my sense of anxiety I truly believe after listening to this that had I been supported by emergency medical rather than te traumatized and treated terribly Locked in a room alone I would have trust in doctors It was not helpful and made it worse

[Lauren Ann]

I started EMDR before Covid. It really does help calm the trauma. Your mind wants to stuff it back down. It really worked for me

[BetsyC]

This was a great interview!! Thanks so much for having Dr. van der Kolk on. I've been following his work for 20 years and this interview is great

[Julie Arcand]

I have always been a huge fan of Dr van der Kolk and other’s like him, I have his book, "The Body Keeps Score," yet the title of this really caught my attention despite having been in intensive therapy for over 25 years. Mine was sexual abuse from a young age and as such the sequelae was rape later in life and then leading a life with no linear narrative and very little memory. In addition to that I incidentally had a rare spinal disease that required several major cervical spine surgeries in consecutive years. Although I never had any difficulty with the pain medication (because it revved me up and that was not how I survived) but the anxiety medication was and sometimes still is an issue. My safe place is literally sleeping in my swaets, hood up, under all my blankets and I really had difficulty even wanting to take my pain medication because I worried so much that I wouldn't be able to sleep if I needed to. I would be forced to turn to benadryl....years ago I would take so many benzodiazapines plus ambien plus benadryl....I'm surprised I'm alive. That's why the title struck me because occasionally I still have those days but have many more ways to try to deal with it first. Dr van der Kolk spoke at a women's specialized clinic in Washington State that sadly closed because of funding, but was an amazing place for many women around the nation. I wish we had more hospitals that dealt specifically with trauma. I believe there would be less suicide, less prisons needed, less addiction services.

[Daniel Goldberg]

Thank you doc 👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻 probably very brave from someone ‘within’ the medical sector to hold that very conversation. Cos sooo many of us have not been treated for what we have. As with the flu one may have severe symptoms and ‘flored’ for a fortnight as some others may get over it in 24hrs….but the flu is the flu … same goes for cPTSD.

[veronicasanacion]

Thank you for the video! As a Therapist who "feels" clients´energy, I have seen that fibromalgia comes from long-term suppressed anger. Besides, there is a psychiatrist who has studied the relation between sexual abuse/rape and schizophrenia and the results are compelling.

[Gloria Trescher]

@veronicasanacion, what is the psychiatrist's name, please? I've been researching on this topic for a close friend of mine who's sister was diagnosed with schizophrenia. She is desperately trying to find help, since the doctor's don't understand the situation and only provide her with meds, which helps only so much. Thank you in advance.

[veronicasanacion]

@Gloria Trescher I tried to remember the Dr.´s name but couldn´t. I am sorry! I remember he had suffered abuse as a child, which motivated him to research in the subject. I really wish I could help.

[Blair Downey]

I totally agree with what he's saying about we need to help people learn to deal and heal .i found going through mental health im my area that therapy was lacking in a big way.I think educating and training mental health counselors doctors teachers church and religious organizations would be so benficial.There is so much out there as far as techniques but mostly no ones aware of this.also it has to do with the vagus nervous system as well as the brain.😊

[Schizopantheist]

My life is also being transformed by The Body Keeps The Score. Thanks to Bessel van Der Kolk And thanks to Dr. Chatterjee for the excellent interview. If only all physicians could attend to this!

[Su Sha]

I was waiting to see if they would mention the bilateral movement aspect of EMDR, which apparently is the fundamental reason of its effectivity, because the eyes move from one side to the other, engaging both sides of the brain. Thom Hartmann has a book called Walking your Blues Away which is excellent in so many respects, which Advocates simply walking, while processing a traumatic or disturbing event. This bilateral movement is instrumental in relieving stored stress and Trauma, and can be done by all of us on our own. He puts forth the effective protocol for doing it in the book, and I highly recommend it.

[yoga with priyanka]

Awesome talk. A lot of people practice yoga that has music or takes them away from themselves. So that is something I would be curious to know about. Power yoga etc. where it becomes similar to jogging 🏃‍♂️ Some poses don’t work for ppl cuz it might trigger them like happy baby feet or cat 🐈 🐮 cow etc. would like to know thoughts on this also ❤🙏🏾

[Akram Hassen]

Bessel is been instrumental for a lout of trauma survivers understanding. He has a nick for explaining trauma in a detailed way without making it to complicated. If u can't read his book I recommend checking some of the podcasts he has featured in.

[em]

Village therapy. Simple and wholesome activities and ways of living. Not abusing each other and being kind, loving and encouraging. It's not complicated.

[Itzak Poelzig]

Where can I find such a village?

[sunsita]

@Itzak Poelzig probably in villages in Greece

[Louise Kullar]

I obviously lived in the wrong village!

[Anne Murphy]

@Itzak Poelzig We need to create that within ourselves first. From a place of compassion, love and accept ALL disowned parts of ourselves giving them the safe, loving Home they never had.

[heart minded]

@Anne Murphy yes. otherwise the people in the "village" will just keep triggering eachother.

[Shay W]

25:35 is spot on. People are already suffering & many all of our lives, yet other diseases get superior support😢

[susan hawkes]

Hated tripping. Love Neuroptimal neurofeedback & now music lessons with a kind therapist, I mean guitar teacher. He taught me that I am allowed to make mistakes. My life has changed because I now have self-compassion. Bravo for music therapy!

[Rosa Goglia]

Hello, and thank you. . I now realize what my attraction to psychedelics was to experiment many years ago. And sometimes , not the drug , but the music these days .The Shakespeare thing is cool, as is other things that he mentioned like posture, role playing and doing things that make you feel good and empowered.Thanks for providing this as it has value, but I’ve been addicted to KZbin on my cellphone so today I decided to do my chores at least while listening..the “movement” defiantly helped and the mentioning of choir singing for me, personally:))))blessings to you, both!

[LARONDA BOURN]

It seems things like yoga and breathing exercises also allow us to feel in control, showing me that I have agency and at least some power and strength. If I can choose how I breathe when I may not have any control over other reactions of my body, it shows there’s at least one thing I can affect the movement of the situation. It shows me I can do at least ONE THING! It starts to normalize and trust my own volition! 👍🏼 And the acting, I feel a sense of “I can do that? Hey! I can do that!” Or better yet, “So this is what it looks like!” 👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼

[CG]

To reel out one of my favourite quotes "It is no measure of health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society" J. Krishnamurti In the meantime, make things, real objects, take up knitting, carpentry, anything that you gets you creative and involved, and stay away from the virtual world as much as possible.

[K N]

I have medication, done some therapy but there's one over other helping tools for me. After reading many books and listening researchers like this doctor I found out that I can control anger and anxiety that comes from trauma by moving my body. If it's triggered suddenly I'll search for safe place/room and do some shadow boxing and/or walking movement with feet. And at the end cry and/or do breathing exercises. When I was younger I ran trying to do most on trails in woods but didn't know why. 🤔

[Diane Ashton]

Excellent video/interview, excellent. One thing I halfway agree with is that things like Prozac just numb out a person's brain/feelings/body awareness. Yes, in my experience, there is some numbing--like getting rid of intrusive thoughts so one can function (say, as a new mother) without horrific thoughts popping into mind all day long. But yes, one's libido can take a bit of a bit (but there are work arounds). I've seen antidepressants allow people to step into themselves (or out of the depression/anxiety/obsessions). Sometimes it's only Then that they can implement things such as breathwork, yoga and so on.

[Carol Garrett]

Public trauma v.s. private trauma. Excellent conversation.

[Hélène Walravens]

Thank you sooo much for this interaction, you are both helping so deeply!

[Maria Flanigan]

The comment around a culture of 10 hour Zoom days resonated with me. My work uses an online video call platform and for me taking a call via that platform is a traumatic experience. My body stiffens up, now my face too. The trauma therapist I worked with last year offers Zoom only sessions too. I sought help with my issue and my nervous system’s fright from calls but have not received any useful ones yet. I am not consciously scared of them, but the subconscious reaction and somatic symptoms that come from it is unpleasant to say the least. And it starts during the call and it is often there for the rest of that day. If anyone out there has dealt with this issue successfully please comment.

[Itzak Poelzig]

What is it about the call that causes that reaction, do you think?

[8th House Alchemist]

This is the first time I've ever heard another person have a like or similar reaction. I feel you ❤. You're braver than I because I never use camera on video calls. When ppl call, I get extremely angry (on the verge of tears) like I'm being assaulted or violated. I usually can't take the call the first round, and I have to call ppl back when I collect myself. Even if I'm in a good place to take the call initially, there is still a brief physical reaction (and eagerness to end the call). I've been very fortunate in my career because I'm in contracts, so I can always opt for written communication. Stay strong.

[dustin1722]

I get weird around the phone too I think bc so much bad news is delivered via my phone that when it rings I expect the world to end or something. Working on changing that

[Itzak Poelzig]

@dustin1722 I'm the same way about emails. I actually think it comes from 9/11 in my case. I'm not working on changing it, because fuck emails.

[nicola byrne]

Hi Dr Rangan & Dr Bessel, great podcast, can you have a discussion next time on sexual abuse and generational abuse because I feel that Ireland is very behind the times in understanding this topic. I have research on many adults who have been sexually abused but wish not to gain help for it because they may be viewed as a risk to children & young people. The men feel that they will also be viewed as gay and will never tell even their wife even though they have trauma symptoms that greatly effect their lives. I believe that this stigma has prevented a better health system here in Dublin and our mental & physical health professions need help with interpreting the evidence on sexual abuse. NOT all people will go on to sexually abuse the next generation, I truly believe its a choice and not a need, if a person had a trauma from a car crash they would hardly go around driving into people that are in smaller cars, its a ridiculous accusation that these traumatised people dont deserve, they deserve a better health care system that has a responsibility to educate themselves further, especially if the abuse had been reported when they were children and they were not believed or gaslighted by people who were supposed to protect them.

[Barbara]

Dr. Van Der Kolk is an Amazing expert and it helps that interviewing doctor listened to multiple Dr. Kolk’s videos because he is using exact Dr. Kolks language. We are all on the same page ❤️

[Noremac]

I was badly impacted by the insane overreaction of the past few years and then traumatised by the discrimination and bullying that played out, losing my career, home and mental health. There was no mental health support

[Female Academy of Self-Love]

He is an amazing specialist with a big heart ❤️