The accounting department is up on level 3

[@bthsr7113]

Considering the billions invested into Apollo, 7 billion is a pretty damn good price for opening up the entire galaxy.

[@k1productions87]

don't forget, Apollo was cancelled before we really got anywhere. By the time the test flights tot he moon were done, people were already demanding we cancel it, just because we didn't need to beat the Russians there. Absolutely infuriating how short-sighted we could be

[@asmylia9880]

@@k1productions87 yet america still lost to Russia

[@k1productions87]

@@asmylia9880 Hardly. They got some first leaps, but then their program all but completely stalled. Their moon program was a failure, the first Soyuz was a fatal crash, they had three missions fail at once because they couldn't get any of them to rendezvous, so all they did afterward was very prolific with space stations. Pretty much as soon as Sergei Korolev died, their ambitious program went with him, and they turned to baby steps.

[@adarkwind4712]

@@asmylia9880 ? How exactly?

[@Foxtrop13]

in the movie Abydos was in another galaxy completely, what a bargain

[@mithikx]

I forgot how well Cox played Kinsey, he was so easy to hate.

[@Marcus51090]

mithikx he’s you’re typical politician that’s why it was easy lol

[@kellerweskier7214]

ibf the political poles completely shifted positions on EVERYTHING

[@wwoods66]

@Matthew Bluefox -- Easy to hate, but not a bad captain. At a minimum, he got Deanna Troi to put on a uniform. kzbin.info/www/bejne/Zmq3qoZ8ZauBbLs

[@LTirishkeg]

Kinsey is always thinking short term gain. He is the representation is human self interest in the show. season 7 makes this literally clear.

[@bradwolf07]

mithikx he has a talent for being hated. A great asset for an actor

[@JoeyVSupreme]

I love it when politicians are portrayed accurately: “why’re we spending billions of dollars a year to stop humanity’s extinction? It hasn’t gone extinct yet.”

[@darwinjina]

let me tell you a story about the coming ice age, err, global warming, err, climate change. ;)

[@monsieurouxx]

@@darwinjina your comment is not clear. It's not clear if you're saying that global warming is real or not real. *EDIT: after reading @darwinjina's answers, it's one of those weird confused opinions where they think that global warming is a matter of personal belief and not a hard scientific fact* . Disappointing!

[@darwinjina]

@@monsieurouxx perhaps, can be summarized as the message has changed over time. I'm hoping that we are smarter now, but, its like every generation think the previous are ignorant and the current have it right. Fear is powerful and shuts out critical thinking. I do like the spirit of the clean air acts/etc, but plenty planned/set policy for the upcoming ice age. See Leonard Nimoy and upcoming air age if you are young.

[@monsieurouxx]

@@darwinjina I understand what you're saying. But just everyone's enlightenment: there isn't a shred of a doubt that it's global warning; several extra degrees over the next decades/century. Everyone has to come to terms with that fact

[@darwinjina]

@@monsieurouxx I would expect that it will get a bit warmer over the next century just based on the technology used. (a lot of heat generating machines and more will be added over time) City hot spots will expand as well.

[@Rowrin]

Just tell the good senator that there are planets out there with completely untapped oil reserves. He'll want to liberate every planet from the Gould.

[@geoffwilliams4478]

👏👏👏👏👏👏

[@commandercritic9036]

Rowrin got something better than oil, it’s called Naqueda and it makes SPACE SHIPS go

[@TheCaptainSplatter]

@@commandercritic9036 Instead of oil memes, its Naqueda memes.

[@Bloodywuddy]

Did i hear oil

[@Graymenn]

Nah the best way to motivate the senator would have been to tell him it would be within the best interest of Israel to give the sgc all the shekels it needs

[@sananaryon4061]

Because if there's one thing America is known for, it's being conservative on military spending

[@viktorhill7936]

they are compared to what their intilligence community wants them to have....

[@willg-r3269]

In a more realistic version of this scene, Kinsey would be thundering in front of a microphone about the need to safeguard our national security by increasing the number of F302s the United States supplies annually to the Lucian Alliance (discreetly omitting that a major F302 manufacturing plant is located in his district and the major suppliers for the contract have all donated hundreds of thousands to Kinsey's reelection campaign) with O'Neill nodding along in the background daydreaming about his upcoming semi-retirement as a six-figures-per-year five-hours-per-week lobbyist for a company that received a no-bid contract to manufacture the interior lighting control subsystems for the X304.

[@MrMedukneusha]

Ha! Funny! I'll burst your bubble now. Military Budget - 20%ish (a little more now with President Trumps reinvestment) Socialist Programs used by demorats to buy votes - 60%ish (socialism works till you run out of other peoples money) There's a difference in percentages between the two. Hopefully you can spot it! Someone intending to mislead you will cite the specific amount of military spending because it looks like a massive amount. (insert graph of military spending per country, America spending the most) What they dont want you to see is America's economy is far larger than norway or sweden. They will not explain that. I'm just pointing this out to you. I'm not here to change your mind.Try to think for yourself next time.

[@joshuacollins9346]

Yeah, this part always struck me as being completely unbelievable. I mean, not even Bernie Sanders would be raising a stink about military spending if they knew there were hostile aliens with more advanced technology running around out there. Hell, we spent a trillion dollars to bomb a bunch of people that pissed us off, regardless of their threat level.

[@willg-r3269]

@@joshuacollins9346 Well that's one of the purposes of the wave of military-aligned science fiction products the US has seen over the past several decades: to let us imagine a universe where the US military is David facing a foreign Goliath, as a form of escapism from the world we actually live in, where the US military is Goliath facing foreign Davids. The more time we spend wrapped in fantasies of the puny ragtag underfunded US military defending Earth from vast galactic empires of megalomaniacal high-tech alien conquerors, the readier we'll be to imagine the US military's real-world foreign enemies that way, even if a better analogy for the actual balance of power on planet Earth would cast the US military as the Go'auld and US enemies like the Viet Cong as the Tau'ri.

[@raspherion]

"They're really at the Gate, THAT ONE!" "Then I suggest we close it!" ...He does realize they have space ships, right?

[@daedalus4748]

I think it would have been good if Daniel said something along those lines during this scene

[@playloud90278]

O'Neill mentioned that in the pilot.

[@raspherion]

I'm just saying, burying the stargate now is pointless. The Ghu'al cant enter it, due to the iris, and the only means of defending earth is to find weapons capable of stopping them. So again, what exactly is the point of stopping it?

[@danielhaire6677]

@@playloud90278 To someone it was later shown to be one of Kinsey's NID lackeys.

[@JesusKreist]

He is a politician. That means he does know about it from his staff but chooses to ignore it until it fits his arguments and/or narrative. As with many politicians that time either is "never" or "too late".

[@RoScFan]

"That was a metaphor. The "back door" is... the sky. They have ships. Good luck closing that part" Is one way the conversation could've continued.

[@Blasted2Oblivion]

If I recall correctly, it actually did. It may not have been this specific scene but the fact that the Gould had ships was brought to his attention. If I remember right, he then used that as an example of how the project and SG-1 in particular invite dangers and needs to be shut down.

[@kriegertechpriest7011]

​@@Blasted2Oblivion Which in of its self is a stupid point, what would that do? Sure no more teams are going out, but that just means theirs no warning when the very pissed off and vengence seeking (Insert Goa'uld here) finaly makes it to earth

[@tyrannicpuppy]

@@Blasted2Oblivion I believe his exact reaction was: "Then I think they will regret taking on the United States Military". As if the US had anything remotely capable of attacking Goa'uld ships at this stage of the show. The twat.

[@Skydron]

"Then I suggest we close it." Never mind the fact that those 'barbarians' are technologically advanced aliens... with fully functional space ships...

[@murakumo65]

Do they also have the location of earth and the ability to here quickly with out said gate? If not there better be one hell of a good reason to keep it open.

[@k9commander]

@@murakumo65 Yes and no. It took the Gould some time to calculate Earth's spacial position in the galaxy. As well as build the force they wanted/needed to invade Earth. By the time they did, Apophis took 2 fully loaded mother-ships to Earth to our solar system. Had SG1 not luckily and accidentally gated into one of their ships, the Earth would have been attacked. Earth was later protected from future attacks by joining an interplanetary treaty. A treaty that didn't protect them from Anubis who was more powerful than the ones who signed it. By that point, the SGC had discovered and developed tech that could protect them from invaders.

[@lordprotector7671]

@@murakumo65Pretty much every Goa'uld knows Earth's location because it was basically their empire's capital for millennia. The only reason they left was because the early humans rebelled and the Goa'uld by that point depleted all naquada reserves on Earth, so there was really no point in taking back a planet that would only cause them further complications to occupy long term.

[@snakeboy_1]

@@lordprotector7671 there was no naquada on earth the only resource on earth where humans to use as slaves and hosts.

[@pwnmeisterage]

@@snakeboy_1​ Gergely Nyerges Apparently the Gao'uld let human populations get too numerous on too many worlds. Humans from Earth were significantly problematic. Humans from more advanced worlds (Tollans, Aschen, and Hebridians) could be even more problematic. Humans from numerous other worlds (like Kelownans) were only a few decades away from emerging as comparably high-tech adversaries. Dead Gao'uld System Lords were really just a symptom of a much bigger problem.

[@GhostLink92]

Take note, writers. This is how you introduce politics in Sci-Fi correctly. That isn't to say you can't tackle social issues, God knows this show did that too. But this is doing politics right. You can almost understand where Kinsey is coming from here. After all it's a lot money that "officially" is going nowhere. But we as the audience know the benefits, even if the program is a resource sink. This adds a perspective we might not have considered before.

[@GhostLink92]

@Alex Hall oh yeah definitely. Although, I really need to finish that.

[@stollinroned5090]

If you think about it sg1 almost destroyed the world a lot of times

[@davidtankersley7072]

@@jayb0g Nobody better than Ronnie Cox for playing a jerk with a valid point.

[@cafeeineaddicted8123]

@@jayb0g The straw man accusation works on a deeper level. We later find out that KInsey is in fact trying to gain control to the resources of the Stargate program for his own purposes. His criticisms here, while valid, are shown to be not sincere and a tool for his ultimate agenda. So any legitimate criticism of the SGC program and the military is completely dismissed.

[@iancassidy3717]

@@jayb0g way to completely ignore the fact he was trying to porkbarrel the stargate program for his benefit. Or the fact that he was beholden to the private interests behind the NID.

[@fortheemperorandkrieg4912]

I loved it when Thor put him in his place and said”*SUPREME* commander Thor” no fear , all desire to help his friends.

[@phenomanon4028]

That was truly a classic moment.

[@233Deadman]

And then afterward, just to rub it in, General hammond just calls him "Thor", and there's no problem. Pretty much showing that they are very much friends and Kinsey is not.

[@DKNguyen3.1415]

@@233Deadman rofl I never noticed this

[@williamlydon2554]

"Do you KNOW how much this program costs"? "Do you know we have A GATE TO OTHER PLANETs?" How anyone could claim the SGC us a "waste of money" is something i'll never understand.

[@shaneebahera8566]

its because during the first 2-3 seasons there wasnt any real benefits to the sgc program whilst they were paying a lot of money to keep it running it also exposed earth to very high threats and risks

[@williamlydon2554]

So our missile silos since the US government never has needed to use them. On the other hand, they are highly important, i feel the SGC is the same.

[@shaneebahera8566]

the SGC is more like if you missile silo randomly launches a missile at the US once in a while and you have to figure out how to stop it once the missile is launched, in the first season the SGC was not important all it did was make new enemies. unlike missiles it served no defensive purpose from the Goa'uld or offensive. It didnt deter them from trying to attack so it cant be compared to nuclear weapons

[@williamlydon2554]

Toche. You do make a good point.

[@sam23696]

The US military spends 600 billion dollars a year on their military, or 250 billion dollars on maintenance alone. That is roughly double since the year 2000, before this came out. And he is complaining about a mere 7 billion? That's like half an F-35. Even before the program benefited the US, it's a alien device that allows interstellar travel. Maybe they could have ditched the 13 billion a year on the LHC and directed those funds to the Stargate for scientific exploration. These episodes felt so forced, we really didn't need the "enemy at home" concept. Because in reality the government would be 100% behind the SGC.

[@dragonslair951167]

Senator Kinsey was amazingly good at coming up with bad ideas in this series.

[@kossakken]

I think his body language and demeanor is way too similar to Trumps.

[@russell5078084]

dragonslair951167 not surprising since he was Morally and Mentally Challenged.

[@rcslyman8929]

To be fair, he was absolutely right. Bury the thing, problem solved. Of course, that wouldn't have made for good television.

[@russell5078084]

RC Slyman no he wasn't right. At the point in the series time line that this scene took place, to many in the galaxy with power to conquer or take earth out already knew about it. So stopping using it wouldn't work.

[@rcslyman8929]

russell5078084 ... at this point in the timeline? You mean near the end of the first season? They hadn't even bumped into the Replicators yet. Or the Asgard, for that matter... they'd only just managed to find Thor's Hammer. Hadn't even talked to Thor yet. In fact, the only real threat that even the SGC was aware of was the goa'uld. Even if fully briefed on all the SGC reports, as far as Kinsey would be concerned, the goa'uld weren't an immediate threat at all except through the Stargate itself. All they were going on was Daniel's accounts from a parallel universe and, yeah, that's really credible to the Senate Appropriations Committee.

[@VRIceblast]

In about a 10 year period of time, the Asgard gave them all their Technology. I think the stargate has paid for it's self many times over just from that. :)

[@LeonidSaykin]

The technology they can't really make into the public knowledge, so nobody can't profit from it.

[@VRIceblast]

​@@LeonidSaykin The Gov't was always going to have that problem. Also, the Gov't would consider all the Offensive and Defensive Technology more than enough, to continue funding the Stargate for as long as they want to use it. I'm sure they can backward engineer some of the tech as well, and release for sale to the public for a profit.

[@iridium9512]

Funny thing is, there were times when they disclosed some technologies. Like that time when they disclosed hologram technology and that energy cannon, and that one episode with Bill Nye. I imagine they probably intended to disclose it bit by bit, not by saying "aliens", but rather something like "this scientist who just so happens to work for US Air Force developed this new thing".

[@thewewguy8t88]

@@iridium9512 well the episode will bill nye was more because the guy got access to rodeys classified report somehow and was not supposed to.

[@theirishviking9278]

Did they also build a couple of working long distance spaceships in those ten years?

[@frdrsch]

7 Billion? Thats ridiciously low for their overall military funding per year. The last few years it was round about 750 Billion Dollars.

[@OzBaxter]

This was 1996 or something...

[@wwoods66]

That figure was just for the Stargate program.

[@wwoods66]

But it's a black program. I mean, the CIA's budget is about $15B, which is bigger, but the _existence_ of the CIA isn't a secret.

[@joec9693]

7 billion is actually a really large amount if you consider that at this point the SGC is a relatively small program with only 10 SG teams (of 4-5 people each) plus the base personnel, so you are looking at 7 billion to support an operation of maybe 200 people in context the FBI budget is 8 billion for 35,000 personnel and as mentioned the CIA budget is 15 billion for 21,000 personnel.

[@MagikarpBeast]

@@joec9693 But the Cia doesnt go to SPACE as far as we know at least

[@victorselve8349]

So I wonder what part of they have spaceships he didn't understand...

[@ericdugdale8585]

Donors are always a stronger determiner of a politician's beliefs than facts are.

[@victorselve8349]

Eric Dugdale Not really, a politicians self interest is always the determining factor as to what he tells you he believes and while I this often means representing the opinion of your donors one would assume that staying alive would be more in his self interest than getting some money is

[@TonkarzOfSolSystem]

"Even at lightspeed they'd take hundreds of years to get here."

[@victorselve8349]

TonkarzOfSolSystem Ha'tak can go at least 32,000 times the speed of light

[@Adanu191]

Victor Selve He didn't know at the time they had FTL capability. No one did.

[@GrandSupremeDaddyo]

You have to admire the writing of a show when it manages to make the politician wanting to reduce secretive military spending out to be the bad guy.

[@JounLord1]

Well its a show centered around the military who are fighting an literally existential threat. Kinsey is like a British politician during WW2 when London is being bombed saying to reduce military spending, to mine the harbors and coast to stop Hitler. Reducing military spending when the military is kinda keeping everyone alive is dumb and merely inconveniencing the enemy but thinking you stopped them is doubly dumb, especially when it prevents you from finding ways to fight the enemy. Closing the gate on Stargate is like making it so no ships can land on Britain and thus no American supplies get through, you leave yourself even more vulnerable when the enemy finds a way around your inconvenience.

[@GhostLink92]

Back when Sci-fi was well written. * Looks at The Expanse * Ok it isn't all bad now.

[@pwnmeisterage]

I seem to recall the Gao'uld having no knowledge of Earth and no interest in Earth. Until an SG team took a nuke to the very first place the gate could dial.

[@GhostLink92]

@@pwnmeisterage ...well you aren't wrong.

[@everyonethinksyoureadeathm5773]

@Michael Martin They also didnt expect that said nuke would pretty much kill the top guy in the System Lords (Ra).

[@Don-ol8ze]

"And let me tell you something. This time there really are barbarians. They're called Go'aulds. And they really are at the gate. THAT ONE!" Great writing and delivery here. One of my favorite Jack O'Neil moments - you can really hear the fear and rage in his voice that this one self-important politician is going to doom the planet.

[@ronaldmackall1621]

One of the greatest sci-fi shows in history...

[@kenwoodbury1888]

Correction, the best. At least for me.

[@joshduthie3401]

Certainly was underrated in my book.

[@Kalenz1234]

It was pretty bad.

[@LuisPerez-5]

​@@Kalenz1234Not at all

[@Matthew-li7we]

@@Kalenz1234 You know what else was pretty bad? Your opinion.

[@Egobyte83]

Yes, close the gate, solves everything... the equivalent of sticking your fingers into your ears and shouting LALALALA!!

[@shaneebahera8566]

worked for other planets the only reason it wouldnt have worked for the earth was because they kept sticking their finger in the goa'uld's business to the point they actually hated them enough to try and destroy them. If they had buried the gate early in season 1 they wouldnt have had any issues

[@sam23696]

And then been poorly prepared when they finally did show up. Keep in mind that Earth had a population in the billions, whereas most planets connected via stargate had populations around 100 million max. Enslaving Earth for a production base would be invaluable.

[@geoffwilliams4478]

+Sam Especially against the Wraith from the Pegasus galaxy

[@shaneebahera8566]

Sam aside from sheer luck and plot armor they weren't prepared when the goa'uld attacked

[@bobojr456]

There's no Naquadah on Earth though.

[@blockmasterscott]

I never noticed before just how good the writing was for this scene.

[@erentheca]

Ironic, just about everything Kinsey said was true, just true in our universe - only in Stargate he was wrong.

[@theshlauf]

I'd still be fine with that much money being spent on exploring other planets.

[@unintentionallydramatic]

No, if anything he's more wrong from an IRL perspective. Naquada generators & advanced support as used in virtually every ship _solve_ every contemporary engineering issue submarines have, not to mention that Naquada proper allows for the construction of Gauss guns powerful & fast enough to shoot down anything purely human technology might throw at a vessel.

[@erentheca]

@@unintentionallydramatic You didn't understand my comment at all.

[@blazerdude89]

@@unintentionallydramatic he said our dimension/time line not the fictitious one of star gate. Pay attention moron.

[@JustinStrife]

We have gained so much technology through military spending, people have no idea how much...

[@kellyrayburn4093]

Sure. Let's close the gate. It's not as if they don't have ships that can invade in the conventional way. Oh way. _they _*_do_*_ have ships that they can send to conquer us!!!!!_

[@EVeErSs]

If you think about it this really isn't an argument to stop the closing of the gate though since they could just use their ships while the gate is online aswell. So in the end it doesn't matter if the gate is onlien or not, in both cases they can use their ships. The better argument would be "with the game online we can find allies, new technologies, and so on to defend against them". Which I'm sure is the underlying intention of that argument but is rarely the one spoken out loud.

[@HappyBeezerStudios]

It's like comparing the gate to a landline phone: Just by calling a Goa'uld number Earth made them curious. And they got Earth's number. If you go and unplug the phone, the Goa'Uld can still come over by car., after all they know your area code from your previous calls. But if you keep the phone running and randomly call people, you might get to someone who can help in case the Goa'uld actually come over. Same for the Gate, by keeping it running and going out there, the SGC had ways to find tech and allies to defend Earth.

[@Bbobsillypants]

A galaxy full of hostile alien races and somehow senator mcinley is probably one of the best villains in this show.

[@Theomite]

The fun part is wondering how much of Kinsey's last few appearances was the Goa'uld inside him and how much was actually him.

[@ProperLogicalDebate]

The uninformed or enemy within the city?

[@zorakj]

He was one of the scariest enemies, for sure.

[@kriegertechpriest7011]

Didnt he die? It was fucking hilarious to watch him crawl back to the SGC for help... then get turned into a gould

[@quitequiet5281]

Human politicians are like that...

[@informationyes]

Calling a literal portal to other planets all over the galaxy with all their resources a waist of money

[@justinpinkard9173]

I really wish I could forget all of Stargate... just so I could experience it one more time.

[@Kalenz1234]

And see it without rose-tinted glasses? You'd hate it ;)

[@Ragitsu]

@@Kalenz1234 Nope.

[@Cdre_Satori]

Man I never appreciated how I would start to see Kinseys pov as I got older. Got a new level of respect for the actor now.

[@ChaosSepher]

Ya know would be amusing as hell to look at the Stargate Program's accounting department. See them shift through the no doubt insane expenditures they would likely have to deal with.

[@sujetoficticio]

Now i want a spin-off based on that, something like The Office maybe.

[@FrikInCasualMode]

Or how Human Resources explain all the fatalities :P Training accidents that left no recoverable body galore!

[@Asghaad]

@@FrikInCasualMode word "classified" solves a whole lot of problems in that regard ...

[@lukemcgarr6127]

Every other day it's a few new MALPs and new blast doors

[@aguyhere7945]

The electric bill for the gate alone has to be pretty insane. Especially in the early days when they didn't have the alien power generating tech to work with.

[@johnrettig1880]

When Senator Kinsey was taken over by a Gould It was Colonel O'Neill's pleasure to kick him out the airlock .

[@VergilTheLegendaryDarkSlayer]

If Teal'c was in that position, he'd be smiling while slowly choking Kensay to death, even tho he would want Mayborne more

[@thewewguy8t88]

i thought he got blown up/his ultimate fate was never really shown.

[@johnrettig1880]

@@thewewguy8t88 You maybe right I'm having trouble remembering little this and that's Besides I'm using Michael Garibaldi's favorite saying So No Stress

[@thewewguy8t88]

@@johnrettig1880 funny thing is there was sentator was taken over by gould and thrown out an airlock lol. the other one was actually played by none other then jhon de lance.

[@johnrettig1880]

@@thewewguy8t88 Thanks for the reminder . You really Q'ed me in .

[@Nandian90]

When I watched this the first time when I was 12 - 13 years old I thought: "7 Billion?! Damn, that is a whole lot of money for one military base" Now I think: "Pbthh... chump change for the US Military budget" In 2000 the military budget was around $301 billion, Which means that the SGC took up 2% of the budget. For the potential of acquiring alien technologies (and seeking a habitable world in-case of total world destruction), it's a damn-good bargain. Honestly, the only reason they should have brought forward for the shut-down of the program was that, especially in the early seasons, the risks were greatly outweighing the benefits.

[@cirrustate8674]

Kinsey never actually cared about the money. It was all about control for him. He wanted to be the one calling the shots, damn the people who actually knew what was going on, and damn the consequences.

[@voldlifilm]

A show so good it had me rooting for the US military. Never thought I'd see the day.

[@Apokalypse456]

Only the airforce though of course. Because the few times we saw the army or navy, the airforce had to come in and save them.

[@Ragitsu]

_Stargate SG-1_ is a fictional heroic representation of the Air Force; in reality, people like General Hammond are rare.

[@Neo2266.]

I wish I could be more like Pissed O’Neill when I’m in an argument

[@theshlauf]

$7 billion dollars? That's less than half of NASA's budget. And the Stargate program ins't just throwing robots at rocks.

[@JounLord1]

Well thats not all they are doing, I'm sure quite a few dollars goes to lost MALPs.

[@yoloswagtron6920]

You realize that the majority of the technology you use on a daily basis is due in part to NASA, right? Last estimate I ran across was that we have seen a 1:5 return on investment for every dollar put into NASA since the 60s. That's a good deal, if you ask me.

[@Stormwave6]

The weird thing is people seem to think nasa burns money as fuel or something. the money goes to new technologies and peoples jobs

[@glacier4286]

Is that NASA's budget today? SG-1 plays over a decade ago so the money could've been worth more with inflation and all that.

[@Apokalypse456]

@@glacier4286 more like over 2 decades ago. If memory serves this is season 1, meaning 1996 if I am not mistaken.

[@wantitall4]

Ronny Cox plays a heck of a villain no matter what show he's in!!!

[@friedipar]

I spend the evening watching clips from “Pentagon Wars“ and it took me a little bit to realise that this was stargate...

[@87Tempests]

it was really clever writing to. compare the "gate" to a gate of a castle of old to be defended by a hostile force

[@Rikard_Nilsson]

except the enemy can also ride in on dragons.

[@alisilcox6036]

Notice how Jack says "seven..?" Rather than "a few billion..?" Or "lots..?" or something to that effect, which he might if he genuinely didnt know anything about the budget. But he's being deliberately obtuse, to deny kinseys rhetorical question. He wouldn't know it was seven something, and not that it was in the billions. Jack is actually quietly aware of precisely how much the program costs, despite it not being interesting or that relevant to his job. He just believes in the SGC and is a professional... he just refuses to show that to Kinsey becuase he doesnt consider him worthy of his attention. Its extremely well written. It implies all this about his character with one word - I love it.

[@Stuurminator]

Also great is the glance he and Hammond exchange. O'Neill, despite his usual irreverence, knows that giving attitude to a senator may have repercussions, so he checks in with Hammond first. Hammond knows where the wind is blowing and gives him the go-ahead with nothing more than a momentary look. It really speaks to their relationship and trust in each other.

[@curruptedJimbo]

waitwait, 7 billion a year, a year....., sounds like a bargain.

[@arthurfisher1857]

America's latest Super Carrier cost more than that. 1 single ship. More than 7 billion dollars. Kinda puts this argument in to perspective

[@adammclaughlin845]

SG1 at its best is a lesson in writing, acting and wonderful characters. Our modern entertainment has fallen behind in all three areas.

[@MrFudgepump]

Given today's politics, I'd agree with the senator IF we weren't talking about a literal wormhole to other planets

[@derekenglish4905]

Gotta love Colonel O'Neill's character people should be more like him 🤣🤣🤣

[@UnevenRanger]

I think one of the interesting points is that (considering at the time the SGC had... maybe a dozen SG teams of 4-5 members, plus call it twice as many engineers/scientists/support personnel, we'll be generous and say 50 support personnel) this black book project (aka, it's not even mentioned in the budget) cost 7 billion for 120 people, thats about 58 MILLION per person in wages, support costs and funding for things like powering the stargate per year. Compare that to the 200 thousand it supposedly costs per infantryman per year to support, that means that the stargate program was insanely expensive. Even if my estimates for the number of staff at the SGC are off by an order of magnitude, it's no shock that the government wanted to cut down on funding. And the interesting part is that there was no way to get a significant short term economic recovery from the program, any technology they backward engineered has to be drip-released to the public or risk the exposure of the program, any mines they set up off world... say they find a significant quantity of gold off world and start shipping it home, how much do you reckon they could introduce to the economy every year without crashing the price of gold? Really, the only thing I can think of for the Military high ups to get support for the program is A. The idea of holding back technology from being released to ensure the US Military's edge over other countries. B. The idea of having entire manufacturing bases off world to support the US's military, imagine in a third world war, having entire planets worth of industrial bases that your enemies cannot touch. Neither of which are particularly nice to think about.

[@lianakriebel]

The Watergate episode when the Russians also uncover a Stargate would lead to an even more complex third world war.

[@jawstrock2215]

The main cost I bet is power, and the probes they keep sending and losing, if the other side is not suitable, lacks a dhd etc. Also the benefit is not in money, it's in military tech. Pretty cheap to get new weapons, energy and defense tech.

[@johnferrandino9589]

Nixon took us off the gold standard, so that gold problem wouldn't be a problem. Anything that they find offworld would just increase the supply and demand, increasing rGDP.

[@freemagicfun]

Ronny Cox can walk a fine line as an actor. He has to play the hypocritical, evangelical, corrupt politician in such way that we love to hate the character - but also love the actor. Many actors cannot walk that razor's edge, but Cox pulls it off beautifully. 😎

[@BlackDiamond2718]

I love how this show expresses exactly why we wouldn't and shouldn't expose such a program to the public irl. Starting with politicians, they will use their influence to install their own personnel to serve their interests like they did with general hammond. Businessmen and the private sector will use the tech to reverse engineer it or use it to sell for profit like the trust. If other governments found out then they would try to interfere with or even seize the gate program for themselves like with the chinese or even the russians. And finally the public would freak out and the media would start up mass panic instead of uniting their efforts to fight these threats. Love how this is addressed realistically in our current time. "addressed" ;)

[@Ragitsu]

You think using public money to fund secret military projects while keeping citizens forever ignorant is acceptable?

[@vinni10014]

Make Stargate great again !

[@Ragitsu]

Let's *not* co-opt slogans from human feces, shall we?

[@lianakriebel]

Jack O'Neill is my favorite character in this franchise.

[@sergie2822]

2012: I spent a career listening to Doomsayers in Uniform. Let me remind you, the Cold War is over! 2022: So, About that...

[@polo6669]

Even if you took advanced technology, killer aliens and all that other fun stuff off the table. Lets say you were stuck with any generic desert planet. The gate is worth 7 billion a year to run, I'd like to see you fund a project on the same amount and even make it to the edge of our solar system; with a team of still living people in 0.34 seconds.

[@cnzhk5925]

Intergalactic travel for $7 billionish dollars is cheap.😂 🤣The accounting department should be able to explain that with a detailed spreadsheet 😁

[@OpenMawProductions]

You can never go wrong with Ronny Cox.

[@Theomite]

Well, Ronny Cox can go wrong with Ronny Cox, but nobody else can.

[@Asethet]

When this episode aired in 1998, the U.S defense budget was $291 billion, which would have made SGC less than 2.6% of the entire defense budget, assuming it was even included in the defense budget and not just hidden as a rounding error of 0.44% in a $1.72 trillion federal budget.

[@BrianSmith-yq7ys]

O'Neil looked real young compared to now

[@CoolsBreeze]

There were so many directions in storylines this show could go into with the stargate. That's exactly why this show lasted for 10 seasons.

[@PanicProvisions]

It's moments like these were you notice how closely the creators of the show worked with the actual U.S. military. "Let's make a villain out of a senator who wants to cut defense spending! Make him as despicable as you can and everyone who is actually knowledgeable about things is rolling their eyes and getting frustrated about him."

[@estellemelodimitchell8259]

Good one from Col O’Neill. Senator Kinsey should just go to Level 3 Accounting department and sort out the costs with them.

[@noahhastings6145]

7+ billion dollars a year is actually a pretty damn good deal, even if only for the minor technological improvements SGC brought about. I mean, Naquada generators, zat guns, staff weapons. Pretty sure any govt would trade 7 Billion for just one of those

[@Balnazzardi]

Agreed, I mean NASA operated on MUCH bigger budgets than that and the whole military budget of USA is like 100x bigger....so relatively speaking 7,4 billion is not that much, especially compared to its benefits.

[@Kayoss13212]

Agreed. And lets also not forget the allies that they gained, just on good faith alone.

[@ExterminatusDeliveryService]

Praise Holy Terra that High Lord Dick Jones survived those terrible injuries from his fall in those mysterious circumstances at the end of his former career. For someone with so few cybernetics the Adeptus Mechanicus absolutely adore that guy. Whole factories worlds built without staircases in his honour. May the emperor's light continue to shine brightly upon him.

[@PetrosofSparta]

$7 billion. Is that it? These days that's chump change in the back pocket of the US Budget of $3.8 trillion or approximately: 0.1% of the total US Budget in 2018. I generally have about $1000 in my account absolute maximum. Would I give £1 for something completely useless. Of Course.

Wrong.

[@varpilahchase2598]

~16% of budget and more like $716 billion

[@simpsonsim07]

$1000 is worth less than £1000 atm

[@playloud90278]

Dave Ramsey would like to have a word with you regarding your emergency fund. ;-)

[@PetrosofSparta]

@@varpilahchase2598 I mean, they do literally say $7 billion in this very clip but whatever.

[@SVSky]

Captain Jellico! Fancy seeing you here.

[@buchiklop110]

One thing I never got about the later seasons. It's said multiple times that it takes a TON of electricity to power the gate every time it opens or closes. So...why not build a permanent naquadah generator on base and use that instead to cut costs?

[@pwnmeisterage]

I think the cost of naqua was far more than the costs of conventional fuels, they always seemed to want more of it for their big toys.

[@AdmiralStoicRum]

It doesnt take any power to open because the connection feeds power to the recieving gate. Dialing out is what needs all the juice

[@eastlynburkholder3559]

Like others said, the dueling sequence takes power, the fate is charged up by connecting to wormhole. I think the nearest equivalent was the way certain elements were scarce in world war two and that super powerful mineral was one of the scarce items and probably the most useful nscarce item we saw.

[@TheAchilles26]

Most of their naquadah went to trying to invent Earth's interstellar fleet

[@sterlingfelker6295]

7 billion out of the annual budget of 766 billion is a steal for Interstellar Guerilla Warfare.

[@Eddie42023]

Captain Jellico!

[@MusingMageofDisney]

Holy crap you're right.

[@jackyali3323]

Senator kinsey is mitch McConnell of Kentucky hagagahahagabha jesus the resemblance is uncanny hagagahahzbababahahza KUOMTRIAHHH

[@cirrustate8674]

For everyone saying "7billion is a steal" or "wow, a senator actually caring about reducing military spending"... it was NEVER about the budget for Kinsey, it was about control. He wanted to control the gate, or shut it down if he couldn't control it. It challenged his worldview and he didn't like that, so he fought against it.

[@SageofStars]

Basically this. Heck, the fact that they're not mentioning all the unique technology they've been salvaging as they go forward, which is already being integrated into fighter jets like the X-302, which had to have started development a few weeks if not months before this conversation(And Hammond would be well aware of). That being the case, and their own problems with Kinsey later probably says they already suspected his NID connections even as far back as now. Still love his face when Hammond denies him access to the Alpha Site during the Goa'uld attack later this season.

[@johnmccall4528]

Somewhere out there is a universe where the Senator got his way, the stargate was shut down and Earth was left utterly defenseless when the Goa'uld came calling.

[@SageofStars]

Didn't they go there once, like in an episode, and have to call on Thor to come bail them out?

[@8vantor8]

@@SageofStars nope we just got dunked on by two warships

[@alexanderringler5747]

Actually... the senator makes good points. Seeing this scene years after understanding actual US politics, this feels like military propaganda, packed in an enjoyable series.

[@PR--un4ub]

Yes! I love this series, but it is blatantly pro-US military.

[@TheAchilles26]

Except he really doesn't. You don't stick your head in the sand and hope to avoid getting Colombused. You bust ass trying to close the tech gap, which is literally the entire point of the SGC. Besides, that budget is a freaking drop in the bucket compared to the rest of the military, and that's ignoring the natural resources of literally hundreds of other planets being accessible through the gate.

[@CannedLizard]

Considering how much money that dude wasted on the ED-209 project, he shouldn’t be throwing rocks in glass houses

[@AskEndy]

With you on the other side of it.

[@geoffwilliams4478]

It would have saved us a lot of cringe worthy scenes... especially in the 6th season episode where they attempted to assassinate him and they pretended it was a ploy. -_-

[@ahfolley]

Gotta give props to Jack, back in those days he didn't back down from the brass or civilian oversight.

[@JainaKeria]

In the senators defence a lot of the threats to earth throughout the series are a direct result of SG1 dialing random planets lol

[@Zeero3846]

Historically speaking, that sort of thing has had far more benefits than not. Regardless, the exploration would've happened eventually. The real problem was the secrecy. Honestly, I think humanity could very well take the existence of a Stargate very well. Given that it's all really well out of their control, the natural response is just to accept it, do what they can, and hope they make it out alive. That's literally basic survival.

[@siatelecomsltdLondon]

"And I suggest you close it" That sounds just about right. No point making unnecessary work for yourself...

[@leonkernan]

I'll never understand how a gate that can be rigged to run off a couple of trucks (see 1969) can cost 7 billion per year to operate. Even with staff costs, etc, 1 billion seems way more reasonable.

[@RMJ1984]

I would imagine that besides getting a pretty good salary as a soldier.. A lot of the money goes to R&D.. Also Stargate command is what? 28 levels.. So there is a lot more people and departments around that we ever get to see, i dont think we even saw but a fraction of all the floors.

[@thorin1045]

lets see: 1 dozens of level deep military bunker. 15 SG teams (60 of the best of the best), plus support crew, up to 250 military and even more research staff. 100+ Recon drones and stuff, lost almost every mission. 1 offsite research installation. 1-2 offworld base. 50-200 staff for the offworld bases. 1-2 space fighter program. 3+ spaceship larger than the ISS each, with dozens of crew. +Many more Now compare this for the cost of the ISS at around 150 Billion USD for 25-30 years, or ~5 billion per year.

[@aguyhere7945]

General Hammond mentions in this episode, I think it was this episode anyway, that it was costing them a million a day just to turn the lights on.

[@Apokalypse456]

@@thorin1045 at the time there was only the bunker and I think 5 or 6 SG teams. so 24 Soldiers, propably still 100 support staff for said drones and stuff lost almost every mission, but no offsites installations or spaceship programs. at this point it was just a connection point to a dangerous enemy that has not yet facilitated anything useful beyond the knowledge that there is useful stuff out there.

[@koriko88]

Ronny Cox also played Captain Jellico in TNG. He made Counselor Troi trade her leotard for a uniform. Apparently he does well at playing temporary party pooper supervisors who come in and point out how lax things have gotten.

[@pwnmeisterage]

I liked Jellico. TNG-era Trek was too lofty and complacent, too full of puffy-shirt Admirals with evil vendettas, it needed a starship Captain with some real spine and real lobes.

[@AdmiralStoicRum]

Considering the situation they were in, Captain Jellico had the right of it. Also he was the Captain of the Ship. Honestly he's within rights to have dissenters shoved out an airlock given the precarious nature of their situation where chain of command needed to be upheld. Riker needed to be shoved out of an airlock.

[@Ragitsu]

@@AdmiralStoicRum ^ Asshole.

[@AdmiralStoicRum]

@@Ragitsu you're right, Riker was an asshole

[@herbderbler1585]

Kinsey is the perfect representation of our modern two-faced politicians, haranguing the military for being paranoid control freaks while simultaneously doing everything in his power to seize total control.

[@quisqueyanguy120]

The most basic flaw with Kinsey's argument is that the Gould Empire has a bunch of space fleets capable of reaching Earth and if local space around Earth is not protected they will bomb the planet from orbit back to the Stone Age and then slave the remaining population and that's is if we get lucky.

[@cirrustate8674]

O'Neill points that out to him, and he tries to argue that the current US military would be good enough.

[@emaayan]

i've recently seen pentagon wars, on youtube and this seems to be... ummm..

[@willg-r3269]

"The ammunition I just used on this iris is the same ammunition that was used in the live fire tests on the F302, this is very serious!" "Yes it is very serious, you destroyed an iris." "The shell barely penetrated the iris!" "Yes, but now the iris is all bent out of shape, how are you going to get it back on the stargate?" "I'm not really worried about putting it back on the stargate!" "Yes, but this iris protects our ammunition!" "The ammunition doesn't work!" "But we need the ammunition for our tests!" "Look, I'll buy the SGC a new goddamn iris." "You can't afford an iris like that, do you see what it stood up to?"

[@trident_gaming1]

That moment when you have watched a few of these clips from this episode and you just now realize that Senator Kinsey is played by the same actor that played Captain Jellico on Star Trek TNG

[@adama5929]

That dude reminds me so much of Biden.

[@richard3a1]

Except that Biden isn't that damn stupid....

[@zdude0127]

@@richard3a1 Yes he is. He yells and belittles his own supporters.

[@Ragitsu]

^ Another dumbass comment.

[@podsmpsg1]

The Goa'uld don't need the gate to attack Earth, they have ships, heavily armed, very fast ships that have shields.

[@domlister2646]

Which planet did he recommend dialling?

[@SGtidbits]

stargate.wikia.com/wiki/P4A-771

[@Neo2266.]

SGtidbits Wow, thank you :D

[@kevinpogue7294]

Yep,that would do it.

[@AzguardMike]

id send him to Chu'lak

[@EHAmos]

I was here looking for that scene where he said the attack would face the United States Military and Daniel was like, "Sure, we'll just upload a computer virus to their mothership"

[@SGtidbits]

That is this episode (Politics) and the scene you describe comes shortly after what you see in this clip. I don't have a clip for it unfortunately. These are the clips I do have for this episode. kzbin.info/aero/PL549D224192F96E00

[@Rikard_Nilsson]

Space is the ultimate high ground.

[@jimh712]

He reminds me of Nancy Pelosi... I've read every thing I know better.. Just because you've been there and done that. doesn't mean any thing.. I've read about it.. and it's not that bad.. Thank you Nancy

[@thefacelessmen2101]

But if you throw a bucket of water on Kinsey he won't melt.

[@ndnd1671]

@@thefacelessmen2101 He'd just run away running everyone down, cause he is a coward and only looks after himself lol

[@sugandesenuds6663]

7 billion is what the pentagon finds in its couch cushions

[@Fraggr92]

0:33 Holy shit, it's Trump! Oh wait, my mistake... it's just Kinsey

[@kellerweskier7214]

thats actually pretty spot on. all but the attitude. Atleast Kinsey has some smarts.

[@TheDurid1]

I want to read comments in any video without every 10th one being Trump hate. Seriously people, stop spamming the internet.

[@Fraggr92]

+Dur'id The Druid Yeah i know it gets a bit repetetive but come on. You gotta admit, that looks exactly like something Donald Trump would do when he hears something he doesn't want to hear.

[@TheDurid1]

Stop being like this kid is all I ask - kzbin.info/www/bejne/faHMkqpppbiop7s

[@JustinStrife]

Really, REALLY sick of people interjecting real world politics into sci-fi/fantasy. It's an escapism for us.

[@MitchellTF]

"So...there's a gate with weaponizable bees, that turn people into more weaponizable bees...And a way to control them." "....Okay, now I'm interested."

[@Kyronea]

What's funniest is that's actually extremely efficient, spending wise, for the benefit they're getting from it. FTL travel, spaceships, etc... yes I realize this comes from near the end of season one, right before SG-1 decides to tell Kinsey to eff off and go and save Earth no matter what people say, but still...

[@davidchism6081]

And they're really ARE at the gate!!! ****THAT ONE!!!!****

[@BobNinjaCat]

Ah, yes, closing the gate. That has SURELY worked in the past.

[@Rushinator1]

Considering NASA’s annual budget is 22.6 BILLION, the Stargate’s 7.4 BILLION annual budget is a bargain. The value of having access to an almost limitless amount of worlds and their technology is impossible to calculate.

[@whophd]

ooooh that Captain Jellicoe

[@dojokonojo]

7 billion USD is a pretty big budgetary black hole to hide from Congress lol

[@wakkywabbit5446]

Thanks

[@117rebel]

This show introduced me to the path of hating politicians when I was a kid.

[@lawdpleasehelpmeno]

7 Billion Dollars for a whole Stargate program? Australia will take it if Kinsey doesn't want it.

[@Marcus51090]

Sean FitzGerald soz U.K. have dibs first

[@jonny-b4954]

$7 billion for interstellar travel and exploration? Holy shit..... that's a steal my dude. An accounting rounding error

[@rentabledwarf578]

$7B a year to defend against a galactic level threat is actually super cheap. Barely an inconvenience.

[@penitent2401]

Wow so the entire Stargate program only cost 1% of the national defense budget

[@thenakedsingularity]

wait that's captain Jellico.

[@gecko2.617]

Even though you might hate Senator Kinnsey, he actually made good points (but did not follow through on other fronts with the same reason, so hypocrite) but still valid and good reasons 🤷🏼‍♂️🤣

[@cubefarmerhkc9105]

Mcguyver was so good at thinking on his feet that he needed to be in leadership

[@MajorCrisis]

7 billion a year for a military program is pocket change with the way our government spends. SGC must be an extremely efficient organization.