The Actual Truth About Dravidians

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Edits by / @k1aoe

[@HeraAgeofEmpires2]

How did you guys enjoy the dravidians saga?

[@dustinouellette9302]

Love it, love you guys both. It's healthy for the community as long as it doesn't get toxic.

[@gebhard128]

it produced a lot of funny dravidian games

[@minikawildflower]

Definitely added fun to live Dravidians games, people were joking about rooting Hera or Viper even when neither of you were playing 11

[@muhammetemredurmus]

As soon as we all guess that you’re trash talking on a chill vibe we all enjoy but can’t clarify if that vibe is real so get a chill stress at the same time 1111

[@pmApostic]

really enjoying the drama related to this discussion! I would love to see a different unit or civ discussed every month maybe? it wouldn't be as personal maybe but could still provide interesting content.

[@allenfinkenaur5001]

The Dravidian saga has been the most fun thing to watch since Knights counter Pikes with Nilli.

[@0oShwavyo0]

Lmao so true, that was another fun drama 😂

[@pyrouscomments]

Just a reminder that DauT went Knights against MbL's Pikes exactly as Hera said should work, and won exactly how Hera said it would. kzbin.info/www/bejne/jYGTl3l6qJppY9E

[@noobling8313]

IN EARLY CASTLE AGE..........🤣

[@hjgftcgcc]

Now we need another video from Viper "The Actual REAL Truth About Dravidians". That will be epic.

[@lonewolforigin]

2 seasons later... The real real real final truth about Dravidians 😂

[@Throwaway-hj2rr]

I actually think it would be great if you could release another series of videos like 'So you want to play Dravidians' etc. After all the patches, buffs, nerfs and development of the meta it would be nice to hear your detailed thoughts on those civs, whereas your previous detailed vidoes on specific civs are quite old. I also think it's more informative than just tier lists. oh, and personally I love the dravidian saga!

[@WorkHorse.Fabrication]

Agreed

[@minikawildflower]

Hera you're not considering Bloodless's Dravidians longsword siege tower masterpiece on T90's channel, new meta confirmed

[@CragHack]

I demand a link to that!

[@alltmisc]

Feels like Viper sees the theoretical potential while Hera focuses on the practical limitations

[@kinbine_]

optimists and realists have been in war for eons

[@karnazacss]

yes, left and right basically@@kinbine_

[@majike0355]

I think that's because Viper is an old player... ancient... prehistoric even. He likes to see different things to spice things up

[@user-cp1ph3sf5i]

I experienced urumiswordsmen's power, but I also agree with Hera's practical view points

[@alltmisc]

He really likes to meme it up. He did it with Khmer back in the days. Enjoying the underdog challenge.

[@asphics7108]

Hey Hera! I am fairly new to the game and something I've noticed is that there is almost no video content going in depth on technologies and units/unit counters, both as part of civilizations as well as in isolation. When I was just starting out it was a big barrier to entry, so idk if you want to make something like that but I feel like it will grow the game a lot by making it more accessible to newer players. Anyways, all that aside, banging video! Really good stuff!

[@mudcrab1317]

Check out Spirit of the Law

[@mudcrab1317]

Specifically his mechanics playlist kzbin.info/aero/PL6co4ILAvwIBtobSlWNFMYQH9oRP98LOb&feature=shared

[@mertyilm_z]

great timing actually as nili also mentions the saga with monthly round up today. also i love viper but he never likes giving decisive statements (i.e. famous "it depends"), also enjoys the comfortable position of attacking decisive statements. but the people likes decisive statements, who is the goat, which civ is the best, etc. So, I commend you for giving the content to us, despite knowing that there is never a 100% answer for anything.

[@husainjam]

I love this reactseption videos. I wish i had kept a track of all the videos. But i ll definitely watch every reaction to this video. This seems to have gained some traction.

[@Emp._Peter]

The saga shows how fun of a community we have ❤

[@grandengineernathan]

I don't play much aoe these days for various reasons, but I stick around the community just because it is so friendly and healthy. In 500+ games online my only reports were afks, played 2 games of lol and team mates send death threats to each other. I think it is in large part because the aoe streamers and youtoubers don't encourage that type of play and respect the other players

[@shadowsun4055]

Really the best community in competitive online games.

[@squidmanfedsfeds5301]

It’s a mature community for the most part Probably because it’s a pretty old game considering it’s first release, and pretty complicated to play well so most idiot trolls wouldn’t put in the time unless they like the game

[@acevalentine4]

yo acendoc here and just cause i have the excuse love your content hera really made me love the game again

[@andreisamarin3517]

But again Hera seems to completely overlook the fact that Urumi in imp WHEN MASSED (it means not 15 units trying to hold archer fire, it means at least 40, better 60/70 units running head first into enemy) can kill a mass of arbalests in seconds, and also kill any melee unit apart from war elephants. You should think of them more like petards. You mass a big group of them, click them on the enemy and watch your opponent's army dissappear. Of course Urumis are gonna take a lot of damage themselves but they can kill anything, if you mass them again.

[@TorSkywalker]

In pro level AoE it is very unlikely that anyone would be able to mass units like that that require castles to produce.

[@andreisamarin3517]

@@TorSkywalker People do manage to mass Mangudai or Concs, which are a lot more expensive. There is always a trade of with those kinds of unic units. It's not op by any measure, I just don't think that something that effective against pretty much everything (obviously only when massed) should be called useless.

[@yusefyassine430]

​@@andreisamarin3517 mangudai and conqs are cav archers which makes them much easier to snowball and mass as you can pick fights and hit and run. infantry units are not supposed to work like that given that they're both melee and relatively slow

[@HeraAgeofEmpires2]

brother if u need 10 minutes to mass 70 urumi u better be ready to fight 20 Siege onagers and 30 paladins

[@andreisamarin3517]

@@HeraAgeofEmpires2 is it really so hard to mass though? It's relatively cheap, it creates quickly. Unless you're doing fast imp you gonna have 2 or 3 castles in early imp anyway. I don't think that this is a unit that should be preserved, you make them just occasionally to delete your opponents army, because they do tend to do that.

[@demiserofd]

What about Elephants+Atonement Monks? You open with skirms, and then add elephant archers in castle age. They'll go for either monks or knights, both of which get countered by atonement monks. You won't be particularly vulnerable to siege because elephant archers can 1v1 mangonels on a small scale. The only thing they could really do is skirms, but that opens the door to a rare Longsword transition, which you can do at half cost. Longswords aren't as good against skirms as knights, but they still more than counter them. Then you can finish the composition by adding armored elephants to tear down their buildings.

[@diegodiego1234]

Still doesn't close the topic. I want you to do a TED talk about this.

[@TheNewMaxico]

The dravidian answer to knight+skirm is full longswords

[@onebigfatguy]

The civ really badly needs Bloodlines. Just having the extra HP would let them push a bit harder with the light cav and even make the somewhat useless battle elephants at least soak a bit more damage.

[@LowELOLegion]

"Very serious video", suuuuuure.

[@sanjayav8602]

hey too fast to comment 11

[@dannyv.8545]

Funny thing is The Viper was on a winning streak with Dravidians in Warlords 3 and others

[@furkansaryerli]

Yo Hera what do you think of urumi being a trash unit? It could act as the food only unit for the dravidians, sinc their light cav is bad. Some nerf to the stats and suddenly you have a really good late game trash civ whose trash unit acts as a champion that is really weak to range units. How would this change dravidians?

[@asdt560]

I've always thought if Dravidians just had a good monastery techtree they'd probably be balanced.

[@mammothpage6932]

Great video, I think a "truth about "series from you would be great, especially starting on civs you rank lower

[@ariisee]

Hera, Urumi Swordsman destroys Spearman, Light Cavalry and Camel lines, that's what it's for

[@pacificsalmon1504]

Thank for the Video Hera. I am only a 1300 ELO noob, but wouldn't longswords + monks do well vs knights skirms?

[@HeraAgeofEmpires2]

prolly dies to lightcav knights, in that case enemy would not upgrade skirm

[@demiserofd]

You tend to over-micro the dravidian skirms, I've noticed. Like when you were going against those Rattans, you were spending so much time pathing back and forth, you only ended up shooting about once every 4-5 ingame seconds, when just by letting them sit still they could have been firing twice as fast.

[@arckmage5218]

But he had to evade bombard shots.

[@dannyv.8545]

​@@arckmage5218 - losing a few skirms is not a big deal. Also need to use formations

[@tomtenthij5676]

Thank you So much for these Video's Hera & Viper!!! IT Was so much fun hahahaha!!!! 😁😁😁😁🎊🎊🎊🎊🎎

[@gatau8391]

Petition for an actual final saga about Hera VS Viper tournament but Viper can only use Dravidians

[@demiserofd]

I think what you're missing about Urumi Swordsmen is the way their strength scales. Champs essentially get weaker as you get more of them, because they get in their own way. Sending 100 champions at 50 arbs is not very much more potent than sending 10 champions; both are going to die without doing very much damage at all. So they either fail completely or are terrible. That inverts for Urumis. They have lower armor, but higher speed, and SPLASH DAMAGE. If you watch games, Urumis do basically one of two things against archers; they either die miserably just like champions, OR, you have enough to reach the archers, and the archers ALL DIE. Seriously, it's ridiculous, a tightly packed group of archers gets just obliterated. Your biggest problem with Urumis has always been a lack of commitment. Urumis are NOT a unit that can work without full commitment. It's like trying to go for crossbows but only making 10; it's just not enough to reach their most effective point, and they'll look much more terrible than they otherwise might be if used properly. And Urumis really don't work mixed in with other units, either, it just averages them out to mediocrity. But if you make enough of them to match your opponent's army, the results very rapidly switch from terrible to insane, FAR more rapidly than other unit types.

[@boorito20k]

I used Urumis once vs Berserks, absolutely destroyed the vikes with them.

[@darkranger116]

i keep saying this in every video, but the civ is anemic because of wootz steel and urumi, if those 2 get dialed back some, you might be able to give them something else on the tech tree to give them more versatility to defend themselves

[@Taydris0]

I'd like to see Dravidians get access to Redemption.

[@gregoryfordnongrum]

Can't wait for The Viper to completely ignore Hera in person at the next LAN tournie

[@RiskyDramaUploads]

This looks like a classic case of people ignoring weak cavalry options. TheViper had a nice 4v4 Rage Forest game recently where he got most of the kills in the (short) game by pushing back a monk/siege push with Viking scout cavalry - tied with Dravidians for worst in the game. Counter to knights/skirmishers? Battle elephants. Counter to monks/siege? Light cavalry, and maybe monks of your own to convert back battle elephants. Counter to post-imperial skirmishers or archers? Armored elephants. Infantry isn't supposed to be taking arrows to the face unless opponent is spending all their focus there. This is honestly something you could learn from your 1v3 games (or against multiple AI, but that's not as interesting): how to take maximum advantage of a player not microing very well. Weak cavalry isn't always the answer, but sometimes it is, and just treating Dravidians like an American civilization that lacks eagle warriors isn't the best.

[@Yang.Wenli33]

Finally! Someone mentioned Urumi's greatest weakness, skirms! People didn't believe it on reddit when I brought it up a goddamn year ago. Even fuckin Frank skirms can deal enough damage against Urumis to hurt your comp because of lacking pierce armor. Happened to me. Urumis are paper tigers that occasionally work. Otherwise, it's a subpar unit. I think they neef to get some Mameluke treatment. Either they should get some skirm resistance, or get extra pierce armor. I feel like skirm resistance would be better since archers should still counter the unit, same as the Mamelukes.

[@onebigfatguy]

Elite upgrade should give them +1/+2 so they don't melt at the drop of a fucking hat.

[@dannyv.8545]

by that logic spearman should not be used either. urumi swordsman have a cost problem. 65F is too much

[@user-hr3pl7pm5h]

wait for the viper's video: the actual truth about hera

[@itzfitz84]

Gotta say, although I've rooted for other pros in the past, Hera is putting out the best aoe2 content now by far. His vids are interesting, informative and he's actually very well spoken. Well done Hera

[@Umdeuter]

What about just aiming for an early Castle, after some Siege defense, and then make Urumis? Urumis should smack Knight Skirm. If it's too many Skirms, just add two Mangos? I think you're sleeping on the fact that Urumis destroy literally any melee unit. Including Knights.

[@agent3332]

Great content, Age of empires should be constant discussion about strategy etc. its exactly what the scene is meant to be about.

[@jobyedema-eo3rm]

I hope you can bring this to attention of the aoe team, its a GIGANTIC bug on console: The Gurjara Shoarmariders cannot be upgraded to elite version: it is just displayed as if the option doesnt exist (it does show in the tech tree tho). Support said for months that they will look in to it but it is especially d*ckish for a civ you have to buy lmao. Save us Hera.

[@MoRDekai1364]

I agree that urumi dies too easily to ranged but making it cost 40 food +1 pierce armour + tech to unlock barracks research could do. What it excels is melee units. I have seen whole armies melted in seconds

[@domingossn]

Non toxic video, finally :P

[@GreetTheSacredCow]

Mfer spittin'. I can't argue with any of this lmao

[@AlejandroRodriguez-mu7qb]

It's fair enough haha i'm a noob but I enjoyed the dravidian saga because it was created for fun to us without any real offense or lack of respecto between You Hera and the Viper unlike other games or speakers who only want to create polemic with Bad intentions and/or Toxicity. Thanks for this joy 😂😂 I really appreciate the dravidian saga 😊

[@iwersonsch5131]

0/1 into 0/2 pierce armor but turn the charge attack into a triple attack that doesn't ignore armor, perhaps?

[@plazmagaming2182]

Lol Im south indian and its cool that dravidians are being represented in video games now

[@VGInterviews]

Just noticed that you NEVER blink in tha facecam footage, please take care of your eyes my guy

[@superbeam12345]

Urumi need some kind of weakness... so they dont have pierce armor ^^ But if the swordsman get on top of the xbow, they melt!! 😂

[@lukasvideosify1596]

I have played about 160 games with the Dravidians and won over 100 with them. I think they are a sick civ - especially on Nomade. But what they need on pure land maps is a boost for castle age, That could be either redemption for the monks, camels to survive castle age or adding +1 pierce armor to the Urumis to make them more viable. But then again I would probably still prefer them to Koreans on Arabia because oif the wood bonus. But not by a lot. Other than that, still a great civ!

[@toujourdetencoremoi]

Well, I'm just a casual player and have followed none of this drama but as a statistician, and so I tend to see games in a way other don't and... here I wanna speak about something, The Dravidian are not meant to have 1 key land unit but 2, the second and actually main key unit being the one you've simply not talked about AT ALL : the elephant archer. Unlike cav archer, they have a precision decent enough to be played without thumb ring, and bloodlines has little to no effects on them, so they can just replace your archers in Castle age, and what's more, they come buffed and in a civ where everything else is meant to dissuade you to go for their biggest counters : the pikes, and by counter I mean Castle age elephants archers can wins 1v1 vs knights without micro, same agaisnt camels Ofc when you scale up and add micro, things becomes even better And 1 elephant archer can also trade a magonel 1v1 without micro And about skirms, they don't trade actually that poorly, especially elite, and especially since they are archers, and infantry can be upgraded easily / siege is cheap, they won't just fight alone, I mean it's VERY easy and deadly to combine elephant archers with a few pikes and mangonels. So, elephants archers are just meant to be a castle age pocket pick than in this civ is good on almost all matchups. But yes, low range, low mobility... can be harassed by most ranged units... or... just not everyone is playing at super high elo where ppl can actually micro this without their eco suffering. And about Urumi, they can win equal ressource against jaguar warrior (!!!) and teutonic knights and slaughter a group of pikes going for your elephants in mere seconds. So... yep they are just stupidly good at... what they are meant to be doing.

[@jayasurian123]

Devs, please give dravidians "redemption". Everything is solved 👍🏼

[@FatLittleButterfly]

you need 7/10 strategy to know how to utilize a unit with a glaring weakness (: Its a real time strategy game after all

[@alexgrant2660]

deepest Dravidian lore

[@Deder555]

No. Look at Urumi. No armor. Light shield and that weird sword. Just make them faster and maybe with charge attack also ability to run?

[@Taydris0]

From what I can tell, you failed to site the bonus giving them a whopping 50% off all barracks techs. This is pretty huge both for early M@A openings but also for defending with spears/pikes/halbs. This civ bonus comes into play again when going full Champion in Imp. With some of the recent cost-lowerings for Swordsman and Spears lines in the patches, this really reduces the cost for early barracks techs to dirt-cheap giving an advantage in Feudal. Dravidians have some really nice archers and skirms. Failing to pair them up with a meat-shield at any point is not wise since there is no point where we can rely on knights to swoop in and save the day. This civ really demands to be played differently. It is strong, but it does't perform well at most known Meta maneuvers. I find it performs best when the player takes full advantage of the recent buffs to infantry. That being said, it sure would be nice if the devs gave Dravidians Husbandry.

[@baizen1]

You really lay down some valid points, but here's my counterargument: Nuh uh.

[@lowell4995]

I feel like the urumi swordsmen are like the jaguars. They excell in one task, but are nearly useless in everything else that isn't killing another infantry. And yeah, in both situations, champions makes it perfectly fine.

[@muhammadnuralhafiz]

But urumi also good vs cavalry if large number but jaguar not They are bane to melee with exception of cataphract

[@Prince-ru2yk]

This was a lot of fun to follow

[@faruksarihan]

How about filling siege towers with Urumi swordsmen? 😅

[@deepasadish]

Wootz Steel is great against high melee armor units. Like Teutonic Knight, etc. But how many units actually have more than 3 melee armor? Halbs, Skirms and Hussars don't - all of them form a good chuck of late game army in 1v1. I would take the faster Japanese attack, or the Burmese +3 attack - for free to boot! Dravidians need a overhaul! Their Thrisadai is also not available in Castle age like Viking longboats! What a mess! Also, has anyone run some tests on whether the 15% faster attack on Skirms makes any difference?

[@engineering_guy]

Ok i need something cleared up Why is pike skirm awkward to counter knight skirm ?

[@mubashirulmoula1798]

Previously I suggested 2 possible changes for Dravidians in a previous Dravidians video of Hera. I have some more ideas. 1) Either change "Medical Corps" into a "Szlachta Privilege" of BE. Their BE will still be weaker than Dravidians. Hence it won't be unbalanced. And then there will be a reason to build Stable as Dravidians instead of a decoration. Or, 2) Make their Barrack techs discount bonus more appealing by (i) Militia line becoming more arrow resistant per barracks tech with more HP and/or PA. Remove Gambeson and/or Champion to prevent them being OP as they also have Wootz Steel, (ii) Militia line gets double effect from Gambeson and Squires, (ii) Militia line +1 attack bonus vs cavalry and/or skirmisher per age (Weaker Vikings UT), (iv) Militia line takes 1 less damage from Cavalry per age (similar to Ethiopians UT). or, 3) Medical Corps changed to Infantries +1/+1 armor or very least Militia line +1/+1 armor. Remove Champion if necessary. or 4) Move Wootz Steel to Castle Age. New Imperial Age UT Infantries +1/+2 armor or very least Militia line +1/+2 armor. Remove Champion if necessary.

[@Mattroid99]

I still think cheap Elephants would not make them good. They already have awful elephants in Castle Age, and they go nowehere in Imp. Also is not as good as cheap knights since they can actually force engagements, raid etc. A bad, slow chonker doesn't really do much even if cheaper. Personally I would just give them Redemption and 1 pierce armor on Urumi, the civ is overall fine imo

[@mubashirulmoula1798]

@@Mattroid99 Fair enough. What about other changes?

[@Mattroid99]

@@mubashirulmoula1798 I think they either are alredy done (Malians have extra PA already, Vikings more HP), is just that infantry itself takes a lot to get there even with cheap upgrades. It wouldn't really help alleviating their issues vs knights skirms

[@mubashirulmoula1798]

We have a lot of repetitive bonuses anyway. Another one won't be a new.@@Mattroid99

[@Mattroid99]

@@mubashirulmoula1798 They try to avoid repeating the same bonuses over and over. I can't think of a bonus that is repeated between two civs

[@EricB_LakeOneal]

I don't want the truth, I want light hearted drama

[@EaglebeakGaming]

If this is the end of the Dravidian saga what drama is coming next?

[@alexisosuna6412]

Hera, take a look in this test 60 elite urumi vs 60 elite samurai just go straight and patrol, the splash damage of urumi and they ignore the male armor with the tecnology (think so) goin well, btw im just a simple noob with a point of view. thks for your videos

[@NapKingCole84]

Could ele archers and pikes work in castle age vs knights/skirms? Maybe not at 2k+, but those eles are so tanky that skirms can die to them and pikes running up on them.

[@hansoskar1911]

The problem wih Dravidians isnt that they lack power when they can do what they wanna do. The problem is that they fall off a cliff when they cant. That happens less often with great players that can controlt he rythm of a game. But great civ still let you win even if you fuck up. Dravidians have great timings but after that they have no speed, no power, no trickery just some middleing bonuses on mediocre units. (sorry skirms and swordsmen) urumis are great in a straight up fight but they lack the sturdyness to convert a great fight into an immediate win bc nuking the economy (Hello Eagle Warriors, Woad Raiders or Paladins)

[@puddingpudding7817]

the original part viper is obvsly right

[@nirranjprabhu]

AOE did dirty to the Dravidian Monastry. In real history, the Dravidian monks converted the entire the east Asia to Buddhism without the backing of an army. They also withstood the invasions and subsequent colonization by the Muslims and Christian Europeans. The Dravidian monks need upgrade! Sure they cannot convert siege units or buildings, but they should be able to convert groups of civilians in one go.

[@CSMProwler]

Don't let any of this distract you from the legend of YouPudding

[@goncal7099]

someone sponsor a showmatch bo9 against viper. Viper playing only Dravidians, Hera random

[@youcanthandlethetruth5433]

If knight skirm beats them then how are they any different to Korean or Malay who have knights yes, but their knights are so shit you'll be sinking resources into them just dying vs better knights. And I think they don't get redemption either. Why can't you substitute some elephants with crossbow for a push? Or light cav monks and crossbow?

[@AnimeFan-dl4qd]

Did you make a video where you explain your map choice (for the September map pool)?

[@rp18125]

Urumi swordsmen win against heavy cav, which is a BIG difference with champions

[@hyperN1337]

It really is the lack of redemption that does it for me personally, if they gave the civ that, then I think their mid game problem will immediately be mitigated.

[@patrickhenry1307]

Dravidians only tournament when? 😅

[@ryanforgo3500]

Hello hera bro. If you are interested i have the answer for you About urumi as a nerd who does a lot of theorycrafting i can tell you exactly what the design of the unit seem to be about, although the more you get into it he less practical the unit sound. To start with, Urumi swordmen are in theory the strongest melee unit in the game in a mass vs mass format given rss are about equal. Given that you accept that they are useless beyond that. So if you want to see how does that work, 20 frank paladins vs 40 urumis, the frank paladins will lose with 20 - 25 urumis left, noting that frank paladins"and probabky elephants" are the worst matchup for urumis cuz of the high paladin health so urumis will do much better vs most other game units in mass. 40 dravidian champions "although cheaper food wise" can sometimes lose to 20 frank paladins. Now the lower the hp per unit in the enemy mass. The stronger are urumis playing that role " naturally because of their trample dmg". So far, you are already aware of all of that technically. But here is the reason why they become less practical in practice. If we repeat the frank paladins vs 40 urumis. But we go for 25 paladins now instead of 20. The paladins will win and it's NOT EVEN close. And one would say "well, how come? More than 20-25 urumis left in the first attempt" Well, This is probably because the uruumi teample damage got spread around more and killed less paladins on impact. And the unit is literally nearly useless when trample is not up. Which means you can use urumi once and feel they are op and then use them again and get shocked with how useless they are in what seems to you like the exact same situation, and the difference between winning HARD and losing HARD could be a subtle 3 - 5 units difference. All of that said, here is what you could call urumi usefulness manual. 1- urumi are the worst unit in the game in a gorilla fighting format. As you said, they die even to skirms so if enemiea are spread around urumi will die without cleaving or even attacking. 2- urumi are designed to kill big stacked masses of any unit type, although dravidians skirms are better used vs ranged anyway 3- duo to their dependency on their charge attack and the AOE from it. Uruumi mass should take into calculation enemy mass total HP. If they can't take a big chunk of enemy mass hp with their initial cleave attack the fight will be not worth it and probably will lose. 4- urumi primary duty is to annihlate a stronger foe, they are not always food efficent but always 100% gold efficient. One can think of uruumi as a suicide squad which can run an enemy outbof gold or force the enemy to change tactics. 5- given they have to be used under extreme conditions, especially if we account that dravidians helbs and skirms are too good to be replaced by uruumi vs cavs or archers, they require a lot of practice. But they are probably extremely easy to counter by the enemy simply by spreading their units somehow. Which would also require skill by the enemy. 6- All that said, even vs ranged units if urumi have proper numbers they will do better than champions. But they will, once again end up dead if the enemy can easily follow up snd clear them as their usefulless dies with the enemy intitial mass. It takes only a few urumi hits to wipe out a big mass of arbs and the arbs cannot use choke points vs urumi cleave attack.

[@camro14]

I love the Dravidians. And i loved the saga. Fun content for sure.

[@thehunk23]

The problem with Dravidians is that they are basically a meso civ without eagles.

[@dannyv.8545]

perfectly summarized

[@natanielezanetti]

hi, are you going to make a video about your current hotkeys and how you changed them?

[@DGrin1]

Urumi swordsmen win cost effectively vs every melee unit in the game besides elephant and cataphract. Everything else dies. Not even samurai beat them in pitched battle

[@matthewk8418]

Elephants

[@shadowsun4055]

Doesn't Dravidians Battle Elephant counter the knight/skirm composition? I know 99% of Dravidians players doesn't even build a stable, but I think that unit is good against knight/skirm.. They even have almost fully cavalry upgrades, so not bad at all...

[@Mattroid99]

You add 1/2 monks there and you are fine, early Castle Age belephants by themselves are both expensive and very bad and Dravidians got the worst of them to boot

[@agent00koll]

does urumi not work well with rams(/siege tower) since siege is cheaper and urumis main weakness in not being able to get on top of the enemy?

[@rubenmaessen4724]

Noo. This can't be the end of the dravidian saga. You should a Drividians match against Viper. Each of you pick one civ for yourself and one civ for the opponent to counter the Dravidians and there's one Dravidian mirror game. This makes just five games.

[@DantoG]

Hera, for you, is there a overall bad civ?

[@gurugru5958]

I'm always super bummed to get Dravidians.

[@martinmarzano1523]

Why pros, in this particular case Hera, forget that Longswords exist, and that they are a legit, viable option to use in 1vs1 arabia. Sure, the ever present and looming dread of getting invalidated by a single boi with a bow, with ADHD and too much to APM to spare is there, and melee pathing not helping at all; but that is still a better outcome than getting bodied knights and skirms. Longswords can beat knights if they outnumber them, and they also shrug off javelins for the most part, and while archers are extremely OP and dominant, if there's no crossbows in the field, and cavalry aint an option, why not field infantry? I know people have this avertion and irrational fear towards infantry but do consider them as a valid option. Better than outright getting defeated. And about Urumis, you are right they die to anything ranged but at the same time they literally shred anything melee that is not an elephant, seeing first-hand a doomstack of teuton paladins and a gothic champion horde getting erased from existance by sword bois was eye opening, you NEED to respect Urumis melee combat capabilities. Then again, you cannot blame Hera for disliking Urumis, given how archer/ranged unit centric this game is.

[@ashrayviswanath7857]

Cant Dravidians go Battle Elphants in CA against Kinghts and Skirms?

[@Mermaidkilla]

So, increase pierce armor for Urumi in the next patch?

[@demiserofd]

What about Longswords? Gambesons Longswords beat Knight/Skirm pretty handily.

[@Igor369]

As long as you can force the knights to stay and fight, which means that you need to threaten serious damage with LS which means that you need to somehow get them near important buildings or resource sites. In an open field battle the knights will just retreat before they die to get healed up by the monk.

[@demiserofd]

@@Igor369 knights are weaker to monks than longswords. Plus, any converted knights will hard counter the skirms. Dravidians will never be faster, they have to use their other strengths instead.

[@tizioita]

Yes, yes buff urumi with +1 pierce armor 💯🤩🤩 Siege tower is the answer 🤭😂

[@quaintserpent]

I want archers to hit multiple targets just like arambais :c its funny that bunch of archers fire the same target, wasting time before enemy gets close to cut them down.

[@dannyv.8545]

That's what elephant archers should do. They have 3-4 archer on the elephant

[@Arden747]

You say that dravidions cant counter knights skirms cause they dont have knights themselve. But what do you do against knights skirm as a mesa civ then. The eagles are not ecspecially good against knights too. Like Mayans can go like pikes and eagles maybe but i am not sure how effective that is. And all mesa civs are getting placed relativly high on each civ tear list. Mayans typicely around A-S and Inkas and Aztecs also around there

[@dannyv.8545]

wonder if Halbs + Skirm can destroy Knight + Skirms :D Same situation

[@mubashirulmoula1798]

Does anyone think that Persian rework : Elephant in the room will also change Battle Elephant and Dravidians along with other BE civs like Bengalis will have an answer to Knight+Skirmisher play?

[@TheBikeOnTheMoon]

they may add extra elephant tech into the stable to make them better I think. But the reason why they are bad is because of their expensive cost for slow movement speed.

[@jamesjamey8596]

I think they are really good in team games because you can instantly go for second range but they are simply horrible in land 1v1.

[@ChefBatmanINC]

Next time you guys play in tournament, Viper goes Dravidians in a game and the loser has to make a parody of a youtuber/ influencer "apology" video

[@alltmisc]

Give slapper bois +1 pierce armor and remove skirm bonus dmg vs spears How about that one suckers

[@tiancheng8549]

They need better monks to counter knight. Need redemption. Entirely agree that Urumi needs +1 pierce armor

[@andomlyranonymous6488]

Nice.

[@mubashirulmoula1798]

As a not AOE developers, I can say that Urumi Swordsman will get +1 PA in the next patch.