The ALL NEW RockShox Zeb Charger 3.1 VS. Fox 38 Grip X2 - Fork Off!

Hot on the heels of Fox's new Grip X2 damper, RockShox have also released their new Charger 3.1 damper. Henry and Kaz hit the trails of Whistler Bike Park to see how the new RockShox Zeb and Fox 38 compare.
00:17 - Intro
00:55 - RockShox Charger 3.1 Overview
02:03 - Fox Grip X2 Overview
03:39 - Setup and Test Lap
09:25 - Ride Impressions
13:18 - Verdict
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[@lejendpolevault5345]

Rock shox lyriks from 2019 were a great fork for most riders. It was so good the marketing team had to convince the owners they needed to "upgrade it" with a different airspring that made the fork worse... Now buy the new fork it's better.

[@Henry-Quinney]

That red Lyrik is such a great fork

[@laurentp89]

C1 DebonAir is much better than B1

[@vlbz]

B1 was better than C1, but the new line is better than both. The old forks were silky smooth on small bumps, but had no mid strokes, which I found super annoying.

[@songoten5880]

Raced a old Lyrik on a few enduro races. Well it worked but in racing conditions the new zeb is no comparison. Performance wise and especially the stiffness on the Lyrik I sometimes felt I was bending and pushing it to much making it feel really spongy because of all the flex. ZEB takes those aggressiv race speed hits like a champ. But if you don’t race I think the Lyrik is enough for most riders since it’s really good and capable too :)

[@jeffgood1580]

I have a 21 I’m really happy with

[@Yardstick401]

I would like to see a shock dyno comparison with each fully open, fully closed and maybe in the middle of their adjustments too.

[@haydenbristow91]

Why? With no compression dampening you are just going to be slamming into the built up air pressure which will feel harsh. What will that tell you?

[@troymortimer3487]

Because you will see actually how they respond in identical conditions, it should highlight what friction is in the fork and also how the forks ramp up because they are not linear and forks dampening will have different support.

[@hannes6114]

I think these guys are closer than ever

[@mrvwbug4423]

My bike has a 38 and I've ridden a few Zebs on other bikes. The Zeb is probably just a hair smoother through chatter, but I find the 38 has better feedback when pumping, jumping, etc. The 38 also feels just a bit more precise once speeds come up.

[@mitchardnixonful]

which damper was on the Zeb?

[@user-lp1hw9bb5e]

the 38 they tested is new x2 damper

[@benediktbagger]

The Whistler DH is one of my favorite trails in the park. Great choice for a diverse track!

[@lsugimoto8361]

The analogy about the glove feel is a very good way to describe it

[@cycling_plurality]

Sweet comparison!

[@sayeeet8349]

14:51 chain is out! 🤓

[@bogdanfmx]

Would like to see more reviews for the trail / all mountain forks as well.

[@maddentheman]

what is his right arm doing?

[@JaredRMorgan]

Probably working the teleprompter remote so he can read his lines.

[@Sam96210]

@@JaredRMorganor he’s straight up jorking it

[@Mapl3Syrup]

He’s burnishing the bushings on his new fork.

[@ricodvorsky3844]

​@@Sam96210 what do you mean by it

[@Sam96210]

@@ricodvorsky3844 let’s just say, his peanits

[@patrickmccormack1427]

Good video guys, great explanations. Curious if other comparison vid's see them the same way.

[@ab_mtb]

I think the biggest pro for the new fox damper is the extra range of custom tuning available due to the huge shim stack

[@MTB4TH]

So the fork that transfers more chatter is better?

[@konradpsiuk5349]

Zeb wins when it comes to maintainability. Way easier to service

[@zaopatrzeniezrb7722]

This! For me as I like to do a lot myself, Zeb is better.

[@patrickmccormack1427]

Only ran fox products and they seem fairly easy to maintain. Curious why you say, this bc i wouldn't know the difference.

[@brookscurran]

What makes the zeb easier to service? A typical lower leg service on a 38 is pretty simple.

[@gunshipanropace2gunshipand119]

Fox got time consuming because of new air chamber in the stanchion

[@AnotherMrLizard]

Apart from the air spring they’re virtually identical to service.

[@jibberist]

the grip x2 es the best feeling damper ever. Also very very smooth but still with some good feedback from the track. So in love

[@Bike_Mike]

How is it with LSC and HSC in Grip2... is the entire range of "clicks" is active? since you provide information about the number of clicks from the open position, I understand that the adjustment is available in their full range. I'm asking because I came across information that above 5 clicks for HSC and 10 for LSC (from the closed position) has no effect on compression. I will be grateful for dispelling my doubts 👊😎

[@The.JZA.]

Agreed. A Fox 38 and arguably even a 36 should have a 203mm brake mount built in. Seems ridiculous to still require an adaptor to run a 203mm.

[@michalmalanowicz7595]

I have older versions of these forks on my bikes and I like both, but I see more differences. I am heavy, 220lbs, 100kg. Fox (elite) is a stiffer fork, gives more control and better damping. Zeb (2.1) is more jumpy and more progressive. Overall I would recommend Fox more for Enduro and Zeb for jumpy trails.

[@justsayin3600]

I just swapped my 36 for a 38. I went up 10mm from 160mm to 170mm. I'm a heavy rider also at 215lbs kitted up. I decided to go with the E-Tuned vs regular. Stock for stock 38 reg vs E-Tuned the E-Tuned has so much traction, and is so smooth. There's not info but Fox has a diagram of the internals and the E-Tuned has larger valves, 1 off the top, and 1 mid range. I've always felt shocks couldn't flow the fluid fast enough on big chunk and hits. With the E-Tuned it solved the problem for me.

[@kapnobataii]

ok, technically the fox MIGHT be better. but you also have to deal with looking like a nonce if you get that gold trim...so, solely based on that, the zeb wins everyday.

[@DarkKnight0183]

You mean the Kashima or the lower legs ?

[@PerfectlyNormalHumanBeing]

@@DarkKnight0183I’d imagine they’re talking about the lower legs, which look absolutely gaudy in my opinion

[@deanemberley2333]

What a stupid juvenile comment to make.

[@derklaus64]

Many thanks for the video and the interesting input. I weigh 80kg and ride a lot of trails and sometimes bike parks. Can you tell me your data for the RS setting: weight, air pressure, rebound ..... This would help me a lot with the adjustment of my fork. Many thanks and regards Klaus

[@adrianbeacon6421]

Zeb looks great! That compression after huge gap at 4:28. Did they allow you to use the pump during those tests? /s

[@ah4598]

If you have 2 bikes you should definitely get both. They are different in a fun way, I like switching between them and they are better at different things. The Zeb gives more confidence, the Fox has a more tactile feel. I prefer the Zeb on slower harder trails and the Fox on faster trails.

[@benoc9966]

Dvo did the 203 post mount because they know Shimano is superior :D

[@YTOnlineReviews]

What a fork in the rock

[@alexsinbb]

Why no comparison to Ohlins RXF 38?

[@jasonpatrickdeleon4701]

Up for this

[@gunshipanropace2gunshipand119]

Wow a Red ZEB

[@n2o_spark]

@pinkbike When you say the RS is busier, do you mean more sensitive to small bumps? On previous versions I've found the fox to be great when it comes to racing, very precise and way over damped for my liking as a 65-68kg rider, so for general riding it's a bumpy and tedious fork. Not very comfortable. Where as RS I've found to be very supple and comfortable when just cruising around, and then still precise enough for racing. If I want my fox to be comfortable, I need to drop a few psi in the fork for more compliance ( to overcome high amounts of compression damping even when running none ), but then my spring rate isn't right for racing. This is all for low speed general riding.

[@testpilot2399]

@@n2o_spark I couldn't agree with this more. i have the exact same problem with fox exept i only weigh 60 kg so yeah kind of goes without saying i have full rockshox on all of my bikes.

[@fcsaldanha]

This sucks... Got a Lyrik with Charger 3 not even 6 months ago... Do you guys think that down the road the 3.1 will be a nice upgrade or I won't notice it as a weekend warrior? Great video!

[@plainuser48596]

you can already upgrade it, there are conversion kits available to turn 3.0 into 3.1

[@rascal1234]

I've owned plenty of bikes and RS forks. Fox's progressivity is smoother. Though I acknoledge these two forks are similar, I prefer Fox for forks.

[@nimbusleonGER]

Henry replaced the Sprie with a Raaw Madonna V3?

[@tekjim]

A reputable custom tuner said the charger 3 is a step backwards from the 2

[@HeretiCflow]

I'm currently on the 3 and I have a feeling it's a bit overdamped and therefore harsh through chatter. What do you think?

[@hannes6114]

What were his reasons?

[@Punjeet]

It is a step backwards indeed. Just look at the piston shape, preloaded shims and choke ober HSC

[@mitchardnixonful]

@@HeretiCflow yes. i back to back tested 2.1 vs 3 in the same 2023 Zeb Ultimate chassis w/ new DA+ airspring. 3 is harsh. the old 2.1 is noticably smoother.

[@TheDavidjakeson]

Maybe bigger question for those of us that already have a Charger 3.0 Zeb: is upgrading to the 3.1 damper worth it? Sounds like yes.

[@karbonaterol6969]

Also wondering

[@laurentp89]

You can sell the 3.0 to a Domain owner and it can be a nice upgrade all around

[@RC-fp1tl]

@@laurentp89was just thinking that lol

[@laurentp89]

Nevermind, there is kit to upgrade the internals from 3.0 to 3.1 for 75 dollars next time you service it

[@unclewickedmtb2023]

Both forks still need a Secus…

[@danielpatino81]

I had fox 38 for couple of years, it is a great fork but for the weekend warrior like myself nothing beats the ZEB with buttercups, most of the people is not at the level of pushing the fox to the point that the fork is working properly, instead the ZEB helps with hand fatigue, deletes all the small vibrations and it performs amazing at any speed, it was hard for me to drop the KASHIMA look but the performance of the ZEB sold it for me!!! 👍👍👍❤️

[@murilobeyruth9478]

I have both, new Zeb and New 38. I will never go back to Zeb if I can. New 38 is the best fork ever

[@DK-wd8ju]

⁠@@murilobeyruth9478that’s because you havent ridden the mezzer pro ;) or Ohlins if you’re a real hard charger

[@rafakwiatkowski7907]

How about FOX fixes CSU in the first place so it doesn’t creak like mad?

[@Coolcmsc]

Lots of beating about the bush (I understand why). But I hear the Fox is better of two great forks 😊

[@DK-wd8ju]

Ohlins or Manitou for me

[@TheCureThatKillz]

Let’s be real…the larger majority of mountain bike riders would notice hardly/if any differences between the two. #splittinghairs

[@HeretiCflow]

Is it just me or was the Charger 3 damper overdamped?

[@hannes6114]

It is not just you, they basically decreased damping with this iteration so it makes sense.

[@sprousaTM]

Yes, I felt that way. I had a rc2.1 in a zeb and an upgraded domain with the 2.1 damper. Both felt less damped than my 2023 ZEB with charger 3... I am fine with the 2023 modell after switching to a different cartridge on the air side as an exchange for the token system.. More linear and felt more plush in the mid stroke.. So it seems right to me, that they decreased the overall damping.

[@gunshipanropace2gunshipand119]

Maybe needs 1wt oil for more plushiness?

[@adrianbeacon6421]

I don't know, but what to say about that ZEB compression at 4:28...

[@ROSE-by5su]

Fucking hate Fox and Rockshox spending so much R&D on their dampers and neglecting their chassis.

[@ROSE-by5su]

Why not spend time to make the best chassis so the dampers work well.

[@glacialpace5655]

Who makes a better chassis?

[@ROSE-by5su]

@@glacialpace5655 Intend

[@gunshipanropace2gunshipand119]

Sr Suntour User?

[@ROSE-by5su]

@@glacialpace5655 Intend, it has flaws on not having lower guards and their dampers dont have much adjustment. Upside down forks are far superior than your typical market conventional fork.

[@portugalsud2924]

2.1 charger is smooter than 3.0 bc the 2.1 had a membrane and 3.0 has a IFP, it has more friction but is more reliable. www.sram.com/en/rockshox/learn/fork-deep-dives/charger-3

[@rpiian]

Fork off, y'all! *It's a

[@Driftuner]

After all issues ive had with Fox, im never buying one again. Been on RS for many years now, never had a single issue..

[@TheRicardoSanchez]

Traction is all that matters. Traction is everything the only thing. All shocks absorb terrain. The only critical difference and deciding factor is which promotes best traction.

[@ousqa]

Wrong

[@Zetler]

ZEB because the logo graphics is more trendy.

[@ninjazzrhythm400]

Sadly PB hates DVO. Much better fork than these 2 big companies

[@ondrejjanoska660]

Öhlins all day

[@marko6706]

Sr Suntor all night

[@MatttKelly]

TLDR: Ones gold, ones not.

[@zayon0170]

fork off 😭😭😂😂😭😭😂😂😭😭😂😂

[@Alan-75]

Gold fox forks🤮🤮🤮🤮.

[@LCNismo]

FOX only

[@asifitmatters1]

Rockshox all day no doubt! Fox is more expensive, more difficult to get parts for, more fickle, much more difficult to set up.

[@orcellod1592]

I believe it’s just me but every time Henry and Dario do a product review. Their voices just put me to sleep. Their charisma and excitement are just not there. IFHT films need to start doing product review for Pinkbike.

[@GnarlesBronson]

Is it me or is this presenter hard to hear clearly? I catch every other word at best. 👴🏼

[@francisdee9955]

Nope…

[@phantasma2323]

HSC fully closed? Wth is this guy even doing and why are we listening to him? These dudes are always so weird.

[@mrfaffer-c3q]

ew a orange.

[@c3h4organic97]

Useless review.

[@yomommastupid]

Prince Charles of MTB 😂 speaking