The Apple Watch is Over?

[@a661992]

The ban was lifted until new year

[@velcrosoundbar]

you still can't buy them on the apple website

[@StrifePulse]

@@velcrosoundbar You can tomorrow.

[@Jeez001]

Yes Apple basically bribed a judge to Lift the ban. The judge has ties to apple 😂 when you have $$ you can get away with anything.

[@velcrosoundbar]

@@StrifePulse Oh ok

[@koruspring1519]

Idk why I clicked this video. Really pointless.

[@madboyreadynow28]

Apple should have been smart enough to just buy the company. Buy the company you can have all the patents and employees. This is a bad look to hire the employees and steal the proprietary property with no agreement or compensation. This will also mean a huge lawsuit.

[@r_olawg]

real (i didnt read any of that)

[@dontbanmebrodontbanme5403]

Very good point. What would the company have cost Apple? $2 billion? That's pocket change for them. Now, they're screwed. And as someone who literally bought an Ultra2 on the final day they were selling them in Apple stores, I don't want Apple to push a fix that nixes a feature I originally paid for. Apple would have a gigantic class action lawsuit on their hands if they took away functionality people paid for, so I don't see that happening.

[@0Mastamind0]

That is the obvious answer, but you have to understand with companies the goal is not to spend as much money as possible. And most companies try to find loopholes to bypass certain things that they wanna accomplish.

[@dccd3237]

Might be able to push updates without including those related to the SPO 2 tech. Bad Apple.

[@0Mastamind0]

Also, not every company wants to sell their company so even if Apple attempted to buy them, they likely weren’t going to sell

[@LanceT.]

FYI, a patent in the U.S. is required, by law, to list the names of the inventors. If the list of inventors is incorrect, the patent can be invalidated. Apple really didn't have a choice to list the inventors if they invented material in the Apple patent whether or not they were hired from the previous company.

[@MNIU_]

Sometimes I watch so much “tech” I forget they may not understand the actual IT behind things like. Cyber law

[@NoThankYouToo]

Yeah, they stole billions worth of tech. Wouldn’t want to ruin that by telling a fib.

[@natsaan]

The gall to file a patent from poached employees. Pure bullying

[@ILoveGrilledCheese]

Unless there was an existing NDA the employees aren’t obligated to withhold anything from Apple when they joined them anyway. It’s a nothing lawsuit

[@natsaan]

@@ILoveGrilledCheeseuhh their work belongs to their prior company. It's an open and shut case, Apple obviously stole the other companies work.

[@albuerum]

In my opinion, the most likely outcome is that they settle out of court, with Apple paying Masimo a huge bag of money and/or a certain royalty amount per unit sold.

[@obsidian00]

Yeah, they're going to have to open up the purse strings for this one.

[@azimali322]

This is the most likely outcome and its stupid that Apple decided that this is the best course of action...

[@sly2792004]

Be cheaper to buy them. They small company worth 5.9 billion wanting Apple to give them more then worth in royalties

[@somnia3423]

@@sly2792004 well they have every right for wanting royalties

[@Designsecrets]

The reason it's in court in the first place is that's what Masimo wanted in the first place......but they hired their employee's and stole the technology anyway so they wouldn't have to pay a cent.

[@DonLee1980]

Remember when people said Microsoft were the bad guys for abusing their market position against its competitors, while Apple was the "moral high ground"?

[@marx0matko]

remember when americans talked about china copying and stealing technologies,well they do it all the time specially apple

[@RvkKJ]

Apple was always predatory and never once had a Moral High ground. You people are starting to see it just now.

[@TheNewMediaoftheDawn]

It was true then about Microsoft…

[@hunterhawkins8754]

they stole life saving heart monitor technology, technology that has actively improved the lives is thousands of people. why are you guys bitching? this is the one instance of capitalist theft that BENEFITS the public

[@AA-ed6ek]

An American company with a moral high ground? Lol.

[@eyeshezzy]

The Lawyers are the biggest winners here. They will continue to milk both sides as long as they can

[@george6252]

Always have, always will.

[@knowledgenuggetsnz]

As someone who has received a double lung transplant, the O2 sensor was a major reason to move to the Apple Watch for me. It seems to be within about 2% accurate, but that is more than enough to warrant further testing if low. Sad news…

[@cavani3314]

2 lungs transplant? That's crazy man, you are a strong one

[@ArgentumSphinx]

Masimo W1® Sport Advanced Health Tracking Wearable

[@faithevans3513]

GOD BLESS APPLE

[@K4sk4d3]

Sounds to me like “the end justify the means”. Apple could have played fair, offered acceptable deal to buy company or even easier.. license the tech.

[@ingaz6565]

Apple does this ALL the time. BUT to be fair, this is much more common than one can imagine. Large companies poach employees from their competitors to gain some sort of advantage very often. This happens in the electronics industries, car industries etc. The big difference here is that Apple approached this company and left a paper trail before going behind their back to get their tech illegitimately. It's one thing to offer some essential employees a higher pay to gain their "expertise" and a whole other thing to literally copy the same tech simply to circumvent sharing the profits.

[@pabloapostar7275]

Steve Jobs got hit with anti-trust violations when he cajoled everyone to NOT poach each others employees. Apple has been known to quarantine employees from each other even when they are working on the same project, so that, if they do get poached, they don't know the total picture (or adjoining pieces of the picture) for the project's goals/objectives. The anti-trust violation was that the agreement suppressed wages and marketability of engineers in the computer industry.

[@onied4159]

Apple technique is to steal technology by filling a patent and claiming as their own.

[@ocubex]

30 employees? Really?

[@bora3.14]

30% of employees@@ocubex

[@cypvh74]

Making a big assumption about whether they gained any “illegitimate” proprietary information or technology.

[@chymerajade]

The blood oxygen feature is one of the main reasons I got an Apple Watch. It's close to on-par with standalone pulse oximeters. I'm sure it's not that important to healthy people, but is essential to many with chronic illness, especially as an always-on companion device. Together with Heart Rate, AFib detection, etc, it's a game-changer for health monitoring. Changes in heart rate, blood pressure, and oxygen might only be noticeable when hiking or exercising if you're healthy, but just being awake or walking up one flight of stairs might trigger big changes if you have any number of chronic conditions millions of people live with every day, that aren't the result of unhealthy choices. So yes, it is important and essential.

[@newbmystic1729]

The galaxy watch is more accurate

[@znod9865]

I agree with you this is the reason I bought the série 9…to monitor some of my health issues. I ordered it yesterday I didn’t know about the ban… I really hope I get the sensor on my watch and that somehow Apple doesn’t have to inactivate it 🤞🏽🤞🏽

[@panzerkampfwagen161]

I will never use something that run on stolen tech even if it is good

[@patrickhanna5251]

The blood oxygen sensor saved my dads life. We went on a ski holiday and at cruise altitude on the plane his blood oxygen according to the Apple Watch was around 80-83% multiple times while the rest of us were at around 98% according to it. His face went slightly blue, at 3000meters at the top of the slopes and his oxygen was again 80%. We got it checked out and his heart had a life threatening hole in it. He then got a titanium plate inserted inside his heart so it would stop the blood flowing the wrong way like it was. So the Apple Watch blood oxygen sensor possibly saved his life.

[@CodSlap]

Love to see lives saved by tech like this. 👍 The feeling of your blood oxy saturation dropping is hard to understand if you haven’t been there. Not fun times.

[@Zhiloreznik]

He got titanium plate? Sounds like horse shit to me. Elaborate more

[@sleepup7931]

While Titanium is not a noble metal , it is resistant to corrosion and is biocompatible with the body( meaning the body will not see it as a foreign body and try to reject it)

[@johnwick5901]

That's the thing, it's not the "Apple's" technology. Your dad was, in fact, saved by an invention that's made by another company apple stole from. You should be grateful for them for putting in money and effort to make that technology.

[@LightningSnake]

And disabling it could put people into a high risk if they can't check it due to it being disabled by Apple for stealing patents. This is where I am glad other Smartwatch brands can integrate on my Android devices and if they have a patent issue, I just switch brands for not losing the functionality

[@CRHK88]

In the post Covid era and with the increase in sleep apnea, this is an incredibly useful feature. Also, when tested against pulse oximeters, it's actually pretty close. That's really not a surprise given that Masimo technology is used in many of the hospital's SpO2 patient care devices. That being said, it's still pretty sleazy of Apple to take this route when they had more than enough money to purchase rights, or even the company that owned the patent for this tech. Their stock has been down about 20% over the last year, so it was probably a bargain.

[@AtulC-c6d]

SPO2 is critical for many people with some health issues (asthma, covid, allergies) and wrist watches use many algorithms to measure these levels accurately. Plus the location, weather conditions and many other data points help develop detect risks and notify timely. It's a great feature to have

[@ChrisParayno]

But it's not proven, it's entertainment for now

[@Robcadams1974]

That makes the matter even more dirty

[@abominabelle]

Samsung Note 4 had that saturation sensor almost precisely 10 years ago already!!

[@connection_ok]

2:36 "Too big to be punished" is a scary thing to admit

[@aucarnage]

The blood oxygen monitor is very useful for people who may not know whether they have sleep apnea, it shows a dramatic drop at those times they stop breathing, no technology is perfect, but just because you don’t think a piece of technology is important or medically precise doesn’t mean it isn’t extremely useful. Think outside of the box, don’t lock yourself inside it!

[@rokko_fable]

I love boxes. Been a fan of them my entire life.

[@Leggir]

It's not a continuous monitor, it periodically checks. So the odd chance it gets a choking event isn't likely a game changer.

[@bjh33]

@@Leggirit was a game changer for me and helped me get my central sleep apnea diagnosis. Showing the trend of drastic drops during those nighttime periodic checks got me right through to the more intensive and accurate testing (which NHS is stingy with) which found I have a very small amount of obstructive events but quite severe central sleep apnea.

[@Sabrina-kc6li]

I believe the blood oxygen option is wonderful. Thanks to that I was able to know that my Blood Oxygen would drop when I sleep and my doctors were able to determine that I have sleep amnia.

[@antoniohernandez7171]

So you can’t use the sensor anymore?

[@JakeLightswitch]

Dude the white guy on the left and the black guy literally sound the same. Like I don't even know who's talking

[@jonnyandpoppy]

The low blood oxygen indication on my Apple Watch at night helped point toward the fact I had sleep apnea. I know so many people who have used this feature to help diagnose various medical conditions. It may not be the most accurate, but is a great indicator of something that might be underlying that can be further investigated by a medical practitioner. So in short, it would definitely be a loss to not have that feature!

[@amyhon2000]

Yup, me too. When I went to the sleep apnea clinic after noting that my blood oxygen had been dropping at night I said to the doctor that I wasn't sure how accurate it was on the watch he told me that they have found it to be incredibly accurate within about 1-2%. He also told me that since the Apple Watch with O2 came out more people had been coming in to be assessed for apnea and more people are getting treatment. My results were that my oxygen was dropping at night (obstructive sleep apnea) but it had to drop more than 5 times a night for my insurance company to allow treatment so as of now I am untreated.

[@GreenDriveIndia]

Series 8?

[@Seasniffer69]

​@@GreenDriveIndiastarted on the series 6

[@Sabrina-kc6li]

I believe the blood oxygen option is wonderful. Thanks to that I was able to know that my Blood Oxygen would drop when I sleep and my doctors were able to determine that I have sleep amnia.

[@corbinwesler3985]

I do high altitude climbing. I found the O2 sensor incredibly useful in monitoring my body during the acclimatization process while sitting at camp.

[@realkevintaylor]

As of December 27, 2023 the court has ruled at Apple can start selling the watches right now until the appeal has been heard.

[@LightningSnake]

So, as long as it is Apple, nobody cares about patent infringement and Apple can steal from others right? The US is sending a dangerous message to the world, first by Obama and then by the court....

[@jbirdzz]

For me, I have an Apple Watch Ultra (I'm in the Military) and I routinely use the watch to its fullest, and I bought it to get the most out of the platform. But I've traded features in doing so from GPS accuracy to the terrible battery life of the Watch compared to its Garmin counterparts, and if they have to also get rid of oxygen sensor, I'm just going to trade it in/sell it because at this point, I'm trading so much for the sake of the ecosystem on an expensive watch. The cons are starting to outweigh the pros, and the Apple Watch just isn't as unrivaled as it once was, and apple being apple is just becoming tiresome.

[@AuggieG42]

I got the Apple Watch series 9 just for the blood oxygen sensor and ECG. Just so I have a better understanding of my health. Not like I trust the sensor 100%, it just gives me an idea of my health. Apple intentionally screws up not just on a company level but also a customer level. Reminds me of the movie Anti-trust (2001) instead of MS it's Apple.

[@nnnnnn3647]

Apple didn't steal anything. everyone uses the SAME technology.

[@1976skins]

I'd recommend Garmin, their sensors matched the ones our guides were using when in the Himalayas.

[@aaquibshaikh8742]

Apple may consider to disable the Blood Oxygen sensor on the Apple Watch but question is how is Apple going to resolve this issue at the consumer end, as to be fair we as consumers have paid a premium for this feature.

[@cwantuch]

As someone with sleep apnea the oxygen level is informative. When I had a bad head cold and could not wear my cpap mask, the oxygen level definitely trended well into the low 80%’s which is what I would expect because totally untreated I fall into the 70%’s. However, if I did not have sleep apnea, I would agree the oxygen level is not overly useful for me.

[@ncard00]

When your computer is idle, or when you're only doing light work, you can run the software "folding home" in the background, which uses the computer's CPU and Graphics Card to help scientists calculate complex data sets used for medical research aiming to cure diseases like cancer.

[@Brixster]

@@ncard00 Can you please explain what this has to do with the original comment

[@EndOfLineTech]

@@Brixster Its called an AD

[@gregorygeorge8695]

Funny enough, there are reports that Apple is working on sleep apnea detection/tracking.

[@rossadamdixon]

I'm exactly the same. Part of me discovering I had sleep apnea and evidence to convince my doctor was a high 70s blood ox level. I have a Garmin watch but the principal is the same. My trends were really down when I sleep.

[@kcopara1]

Apple is getting a taste of their own medicine. I am surprised the irony wasn't pointed out.

[@scubasausage]

This company is trying to get $3.1 billion for this. That’s outrageous and makes me want to support Apple.

[@dangerous8333]

Are you 12? These things have been happening since these companies started. This is nothing new for Apple lmao.

[@Gusto4now]

​@@scubasausage apple is closer to trillion dollars company they have robbed, strong armed so many small businesses, if one fights back they should gouge them for a hefty amount so they change the business practices

[@yyny0]

@@scubasausage Apple was willing to give millions to ~30 employees to get access to this technology. It was clearly worth a lot to them.

[@scubasausage]

@@yyny0 Ive done a bit of research on this. The original court case against Apple was thrown out. But Apple still have a court case against Masimo. Masimo just went and got an import ban at the ITC. But if Apples case is successful then Masimo will need to pay Apple for lost sales and apparently that case is 50:50. As for Apple paying employees, they were paid more than what Masimo paid them but not millions each. Apple spent millions to employ the team. This is quite normal in this industry and there are no questions on the bulk of Apple employees. This also all happened prior to Masimo filing their patent. The case rests on one man and his apparent knowledge given to Apple before Apple terminated his contract. Its an alarmingly thin case that smells like Masimo paid someone at the ITC to push the motion. And of course the media wants to capitalise on the irrational hatred people have for Apple so they leave out a lot of details.

[@loudandclearmedia]

Apple played dirty, and now they've got to pay. The biggest damage here is to the reputation of Apple. They can handily pay any settlement, judgement, hardware change etc, but this is an ugly hit to their reputation.

[@MADBROW]

Nobody really cares

[@blicleak1101]

No its nit because literally NOBODY cares

[@anubhavkumarc]

Apple has always done this and fanboys still love them and will continue loving them.

[@abhijeetroychoudhury8162]

Bro everyone including me will literally forget if this even happened

[@darylcheshire1618]

is it just Apple, do many companies do this to each other? Sort of like a pissing contest between lawyers. What I’ve seen is somebody wins a payout and the company does nothing, so you go back to court again. So this court stuff just happens a lot between companies just part of the cost of doing business. (screw the little people).

[@blufilmsesa]

Not Apple but I remember talking to a guy who worked for a robotics company where Amazon used their services. Amazon would later hire engineers over from his company and make their own copy of their product. Eventually stopping usage of their services and stealing all their customers. Just monopoly things.

[@TheDefaultgameer]

To think all they actually had to do was buy a component from a company, while they were buying other components from other suppliers. Instead they get sued, and get some press showing them doing this.

[@colinmartin9797]

And to think that it won't change a single person's mind about buying their products despite the fact that apple is a really, really evil company.

[@BlitzStudiosIsinsideyourhome]

@@colinmartin9797 Bad, maybe, but evil is a bit far my friend

[@Elninojunior]

@@BlitzStudiosIsinsideyourhomeit is evil-er than Huawei.

[@sly2792004]

What if said company didn’t want to sell components as they selling their own watch that cost more then Apple watch while doing a lot less.

[@sly2792004]

@@colinmartin9797news flash every company is bad and does whatever they can to maximize profits. This company is selling a crapper watch for more than Apple Watch. You think they care about people? No they want profits just like whole health care industry. Doesn’t cost 100,000 plus to go to hospital. They charge 3k for bed sheets

[@Edwordless]

My big concern is that they will stop supporting the feature going forward, making older watches obsolete more quickly than normal. Good idea to hold off buying any version for now, unless there is a steep discount.

[@dangerous8333]

I guess you haven’t followed technology and how these things work over the last two decades.

[@Edwordless]

On the contrary, my Applewatch series 5 has Force Touch that is useless now that it’s been discontinued on subsequent watches. Likely that if they have to remove the light sensor, watches that have it won’t have software to support using it.

[@YiZuSc]

they should, they stole that feature basically... is like we were allowed to drive stolen cars just because we didn´t steal it.

[@JustAPersonWhoComments]

Crazy how Apple hired their employees and then published patents under one of their names. The blood oxygen sensor seemed like a cool feature, but I agree with the discussion about its actual importance

[@nemock]

They had to list the employee name. They were an inventor on the new patent.

[@dangerous8333]

They’re wrong, which makes you wrong.

[@petermavrenski6602]

Thats arrogance for you..

[@Hojogamer]

@@petermavrenski6602 it’s still in the online store.

[@user-dh6kg3kg7f]

It is one of my most used features in the galaxy watch. Blood oxygen levels is pretty important and many people check it in their smartwatches quite a bit. The key thing is a smartwatch main function these days is to keep track of your health. When a person gets a smartwatch it doesn’t just check for one feature but rather the overall experience and features it provides. And usually you pick the smartwatch that is most useful for you. Perhaps you guys don’t know it but blood oxygen levels is as important as checking your heart rate . Of course there are many other sensors that could be as useful if not more that Apple can include but blood oxygen level is a really important one indeed.

[@ghosts288]

one annoying thing about this group is their tendency to make blanket assumptions on things they’re absolutely clueless about like the usefulness of a blood oxygen sensor. it’s been several times now they’ve said “this isn’t useful or needed” or a similar remark because it’s something they don’t use or care about. it just takes a small amount of critical thinking to understand that there are people out there who aren’t perfectly healthy 30 somethings that would probably rely on this health tech and the convenience of it all being in one device. s/o david tho for actually tryna bring some logic into the discussion

[@mikeandre7364]

Literally. I interned at a cardiac clinic for the elderly, and pretty much all of them had a watch with a oximeter, and it was a requirement for us to take down their readings which would be reported to their medical aids to track their progress to manage premiums etc.

[@perryham]

I mean what the heck is a guy wearing a ugly Christmas sweater on a tech podcast timidly speaking and self consciously looking at others for approval when talking about his opinion about the matter, would know anything about an importance of an oximeter?

[@jaredweiman2987]

Zoomers tend to be incredibly self absorbed.

[@cloudyview]

Even as someone that uses the blood oxygen sensor, overall, it's not that important to the product. It may be an important feature for a subset of users, but to the majority of users, it's a nice to have, not a need to have.

[@michaelupchurch3779]

Actually so true lives have been saved because of the ECG blood 🩸 oxygen and heart rate and in my opinion this group of individuals on you tube I don’t follow

[@aliozanerbektas]

Apple is tasting its own medicine. Remember the time they sued Samsung for their galaxy phones looking like iPhones? Yeah...

[@kefinkamed]

Given how long this lawsuit has been dragging out, it actually make a lot of sense that both Series 9 and Ultra 2 were such bummers with the lack of any meaningful hardware updates.

[@_purge9488]

I think you have the order of events backwards.

[@kefinkamed]

@@_purge9488 Not really. The lawsuit began way before this year´s release. Therefore it stands to reason that Apple prepared for this outcome by releasing a product that would not sell that well anyway, perhaps even making fewer units than usual, in preparation for a potential ban. It is just a theory but it would not surprise me, given that Apple is a company that has a good track record of thinking ahead.

[@ayudrs]

That just sounds like any new apple product

[@superiortoall22]

No different than the Samsung watches which didn't change much, Apple still leads the pack, they probably don't feel the need to update much, kind of like the Z Fold 5 this year.

[@sprinkleddonuts6094]

Riiiight cause no other android company does this…

[@jackamaniac]

The problem is that every person on the internet protects the biggest companies in the world from being able to be held liable. Stop stealing other people’s data and products while the apples community is trying to protect this big companie that doesn’t care about you only your money.

[@joranstegner1400]

I've used the blood oxygen feature to discover I have sleep apnea so it was pretty useful to me

[@DummyMunny]

Wearables definitely include air pods and other items. They aren’t selling $14B of watches in a qtr.

[@ericd9853]

I work closely with Massimo as a biomedical engineer. They are an enormous company with a wide variety of products. Most vitals carts in hospitals are Phillips or Massimo. Surprised to hear this.

[@THELYRICALTMAN]

Man the apple watch situation kinda shocked me

[@RastaHenkie]

Why? It's apple business model. Copy other people tech, make it look pretty. Sell it with better marketing with a huge markup.

[@martonistvan1746]

@@RastaHenkieYou mean, make something better and sell it with a (not huge) markup. Well that’s how companies work. Apple isn’t non-profit.

[@vinny9152]

A company that didn't have a problem with children building iPhones before it was revealed by investigative journalists? Really, a shocker?

[@RastaHenkie]

@@martonistvan1746 Companies use slave and child labor. Does not mean it's normal. Plus Apple products with the same amount of Storage and or RAM cost twice as much for less Futures.

​@@vinny9152True but let's not kid ourselves, they're not that companies only customer

[@BigJ1033]

This ban never affected the the Canadian series 9 and Ultra 2. The Canadian ones also, have blood oxygen sensors.

[@leehawkins616]

Thank you for some intelligent discussion. A nice change from the other shows which merely act as adverts for Apple!

[@szacharyf]

This wasn’t that? This video is very pro Apple and almost dismissive of the other companies claims. Discussing how Apple should circumvent the lawsuit by disabling the sensor.. or suggesting that the sensor is pointless anyway, nobody would notice it’s gone, it’s not accurate anyway, etc etc

[@johnmoore1495]

As someone whose father suddenly died at 44 of a heart attack, and my father’s father suddenly dying at 54, this is disappointing news. I’ve been using Apple Watches to try and stay ahead of me repeating history as like an emergency alarm if something is wrong before I can feel it. I’ve been waiting for Apple to develop some kind of technology where they can monitor blood pressure and then the Apple Watch would’ve been golden. Being able to track heart rate, irregular heart beats, O2 levels, and blood pressure would be perfect for me. Don’t get me wrong Apple was clearly scummy here and deserves the ban, they need to either suck it up and settle or develop a new technology, not just abandon the 02 sensor.

[@jennibabcock]

I'm late seeing this but the O2 sensor is what made me upgrade. After Summer of 22 when I had to visit the ER when my o2 was at 82 I decided to get the series 8. I was then diagnosed with post covid reactive airway disease. Knowing I can check if I feel off is important to me. It might not be the most accurate reading but its gives me an idea and an alert if I get too low.

[@amyhon2000]

I am curious as to why you all think that the sensors are not accurate? According to the doctors I have seen they are incredibly accurate - both my electrocardiologist (for the ECG feature, he recommended I get an apple watch) and the doctor from the sleep study clinic who said that the apple watch was accurate within 1-2%...I trust the experts in these conditions rather than a generalist like Dr. Mike. Sleep apnea is a big deal if bad enough and left untreated and can lead to other health conditions.

[@inspectorvoid]

They’re haters, they even mention they don’t use the feature but I do for my health needs and it seems to be pretty accurate.

[@projectdeepdive]

Oh man, it makes me reflect on my listening habits when I realize these guys are musing about something they know nothing about and are leaving listeners with false information. I worry that this happens a lot, but I only realize it with topics I'm deeply familiar with. The financials discussed at 11:52 are grouped as "Wearables, Home and Accessories" and include: "Wearables includes smartwatches and wireless headphones. The Company’s line of smartwatches, based on its watchOS operating system, includes Apple Watch Ultra 2, Apple Watch Series 9 and Apple Watch SE. The Company’s line of wireless headphones includes AirPods, AirPods Pro, AirPods Max and Beats products. Home includes Apple TV, the Company’s media streaming and gaming device based on its tvOS operating system, and HomePod and HomePod mini , high-fidelity wireless smart speakers. Accessories includes Apple-branded and third-party accessories."

[@thomasboldt4669]

The blood O2 sensor is the only reason I upgraded my watch. It actually works pretty well. And yes the temp is for tracking ovulation.

[@johnnymizanin4835]

We joke about the blood oxygen sensor as a COVID test, but it’s how I knew I had it. I’d just gotten a booster like a week or two prior and was working from home and noticed my breathing was kinda labored. Nothing crazy, but like you just went up some steps and I was just sitting there sending emails. Ran the blood oxygen, saw it was in like the mid 90s, so I got the test and found out I did have COVID. It was a really mild case (cause the vaccine works), so if I had just forgot about the breathing thing after a bit I could have never gotten tested and then not stay home and mask around the people I live with. So I consider that a pretty useful feature.

[@SUSHI4lyf]

Good on ya, mate. Non-vaxxers are just Neanderthals.

[@daveyjones144]

😂😂😂😂😂😂

[@theeking2955]

If the vaccine worked then u wouldn’t have COVID

[@lopezov709]

Why is everyone so shocked that apple is engaging in this type of behavior, they been doing this for a while, only this time they couldn't bribe their way out of this one.

[@rimun5235]

⁠​⁠@@Jay37_bake Honestly, a lot of companies in the tech space sue each other for patent infringement to the point of it being ridiculous. Also, people can argue the ethics of it but as an employee, if a company wants to pay me millions for my invention more than the current company, I will absolutely do it. Go where your value is. Why would you stay at a company paying you less? I don't think I will ever be on a company's side.

[@Entertainment-]

Google’s Fitbit still has the SpO2 functionality, they might have come to an agreement with Masimo or measure it using a different technique

[@SigridKroon]

For me the spO2 is useful as a trend for my asthma like if I notice a significant drop at any point it can indicate I’m having a major issue

[@GracefulGamaken]

Personally I really feel as though I need the feature. I used to vape and my Vo2 max is “below average” as a 25 year old active male. Ever since I’ve stopped vaping, I’ve been seeing the improvement in my Vo2 max and it’s been motivational. I really hope it’s something they don’t get rid of

[@JeromeDemers]

remember that Apple won"t pay any royalties because if they do, it will set a precedent for other compagnie to do the same in the future, it will be much easier. They also try to buy them in the early days, that did not work.

[@keepsoulfree]

Checking blood oxygen levels was very important with COVID 19

[@colinmartin9797]

.... kinda, not really? Only in patients that were very, very sick. And in those situations, it is CRITICAL to emphasize that the apple watch is NOT A MEDICAL DEVICE and the readings from the wrist are not going to be very accurate or reliable. There's a reason medical pulse oximeters go on a finger, toe or earlobe. And never the wrist

[@Lynxdoc]

True, it doesn't tell you you have Covid however it is an indicator you should get tested immediately if it's below 90 percent.

[@braskabani8011]

I disable that right aways. So pointless. Humans can live without that

[@Lynxdoc]

Not for me @@braskabani8011

[@Lynxdoc]

Realize that but something good to follow up on with your doctor @@colinmartin9797

[@thomasfx3190]

Marcus I have enjoyed your content and take on the personal computing/ technology industry. Very impressive, well played.

[@cdurkinz]

Bizarre that companies this large that print money don't just do these things correctly. They are a huge target due to that money so it's not like they're going to get away with it.

[@popeye82]

Apple did do it correctly... From the point of their shareholders at the time. They got the feature and cost way less than alternatives

[@cdurkinz]

@@popeye82 Gonna cost them now one way or another but fair enough.

[@fionalorimer4127]

The o2 sensor is important to me. In my experience the sensor is accurate. I have compared it a respiratory clinics readings when testing my O2 levels and my own oximeter. Like you say it’s the trend with the historical data. The feature is valuable for someone with compromised lungs, the app takes random readings, recording data

[@stemfourvisual]

I’m surprised the employees who took proprietary info with them weren’t sued also. Or were they?

[@KevKlopper]

Why would they go after pocket change if they can get the whole pot of gold?

[@stemfourvisual]

@@KevKlopper they might wanna set an example

[@ddjjss]

I’m 72 years old, and any & all health related features are important to us senior citizens. My wife is diabetic so we are impatiently awaiting the blood sugar sensor.

[@hyojoonus]

Apple should bite the bullet and settle for sake of their brand image after getting finally caught in ever-shady poaching and gathering intel from ex-employees of their target companies. Sure, it’s going to cost them a pretty penny, but they should make it right for Masimo and possibly make the O2 sensor legit and hopefully it can carry both companies forward to a better place than in a litigation hell.

[@HouseOfFunQM]

It finally happened. Apple lived long enough to see themselves become the villain.

[@jbpierce4776]

Apple is a trillion dollar company with a huge legal team, I'm sure they'll find a way around this.

[@thelegendaryfk7922]

They shouldn't if they do that means that they would set a precedent that any company can steel any other companies patent with no consequence

[@bdawg333]

I'm so sick of constant updates and slowing battery life, I took mine off 2 months ago and put it in a drawer. Don't miss it one bit.

[@peterleibundgut2349]

Apple Watch sales are only banned in the US. In other countries Series 9 and Ultra 2 are available. Sensing blood oxygen saturation using a red LED was originally patented by a Japanese 20 some years ago. Strange to see two US companies haggling about it now.

[@matthewshields]

Apple completely knew what they were doing.

[@NotGarrettG]

I just saw this title/question and I literally blurted out “No the Apple Watch isn’t Over” So. That tells Ya!

[@gtheo3]

This aged well 😂

[@boneharvester_eth4021]

Will the resale go up or down? For ultra 2

[@4RILDIGITAL]

This is really an unexpected move from Apple. It seems that no tech giant is immune to legal challenges. Will be interesting to see how this plays out.

[@riencoert]

I used the sensor on my (then 2 month old) daughter, who had symptoms of RSV, it gave a result of 85 which triggered us to go to the hospital where they confirmed it was and we stayed 2 nights to monitor her, her levels were in the low 90s while we were there so she made it through without too much trouble, but I was happy nonetheless that I was able to use the watch.

[@jarynfee7332]

Classic Apple

[@NorthshireGaming]

While this seems like something bad that companies do, Blackberry did the same thing. Except in their case they wrote a check they couldn't cash by basically offering poached employees with more shares of stock than they had available. They ended up getting into a very costly lawsuit with the SEC, coupled with several production issues that ultimately drove the company into the ground. Blackberry is a cautionary tale of what happens when companies poach technologies and ultimately fail to innovate. While companies like this can deal with volumes of money in the billions, it's an engine of money in to money out, no company is too big to fail. Even a seemingly small hiccup can derail the financial train that makes the whole house of cards tumble to the ground.

[@wpherigo1]

Blood oxygen levels are really important for people with lung issues. If your lungs can’t get enough oxygen to your blood stream , you have a problem.

[@LordJoeWhitaker]

I would personally miss the sensor because I have Cystic fibrosis and it has alerted me before I start feeling the effects of a chest infection which really helps me get treatment before I’m really unwell and my doctor loves looking at my trend data as it shows how effective certain antibiotics are.

[@observinghumanity3034]

Be aware also that if Apple releases a new Apple Watch firmware update it will most likely disable this feature we all already paid for.

[@WillOnCode]

Can’t mess with iOS

[@jakub7244]

Same way as they did with airpods .. stolen stuff and we got caught? .. just disable it in FW update

[@zaftra]

blood oxygen is incredibly important, that's why it's one of the first things they measure. However, I was watching a doctor saying the percentage of these is pretty much worthless.

[@joshuahall209]

It's definitely crazy that Apple poached all these employees, but it isn't uncommon--or a mistake on Apple's part--to name said employees in a patent application. A requirement for the application is proper inventorship, which requires the applicant(s) to be the actual inventor(s). The applicant(s) would then assign those patent rights to their employer.

[@PrinceMalachi7]

For a company that has a history of claiming people are stealing from them, This is ironic

[@Allwelfare]

I'm surprised that most people are not bothered about the felony rather talking about how they are going to miss this and that. Pathetic 😢

[@blackfalcon1324]

What felony?

[@cypvh74]

It’s not a felony (yet). They haven’t been found guilty of anything.

[@blackfalcon1324]

I am pretty sure copyright violations are exclusively a civil matter

[@ChopperChad]

Blood O2 is also used in the sleep app. I use it every single night and it’s a deal breaker if it’s not on the Apple Watch. I’ll jump to the Garmin Epix.

[@casey5641]

When it comes to smart watches I’ll never buy anything other than a Garmin

[@nigelbrownwellington6514]

Addressing the subject of sensor accuracy, it is likely that the blood oxygen sensor is highly accurate and provides useful information. The body temperature sensor also, as it doesn't measure static temperature, it measures the rate of heat transfer from the dermis to the epidermis, and is able to get a fairly accurate reading.

[@chrismoody9855]

I love Apple, but honestly this was bad form on their end. Not to mention, nobody in Apple argued that maybe it’s not the best idea to put the patent under an employee’s name?

[@XRKGX]

Problem is as much as they can. Do they really can’t do much. Apple can just do a different pattern and get around this. They just can’t sell those versions of the watch anymore but no they can get around it because other companies have the same thing in their watch. Samsung has it and a lot of other watches too so companies can’t just go after one they would have to go after every single watch out there and Apple still has enough money to do pretty much anything they want

[@AmandaLubyk]

The SPO2 sensor in my Apple Watch kept me from having to go to the hospital when I had Covid. I have COPD and asthma (among many other conditions), and it was a close call. I also use it to monitor my oxygen daily, due to my lung conditions. I have compared the Apple Watch readings to a professional SPO2 reader, and the readings are within a few percentage of each other (SPO2 is a percent of oxygen in the blood). For those who do need this technology, this is sad news.

[@CheeseheadMedia]

I will disagree with your assumption that the O2 sensor is NOT important. As an asthmatic I use the ability to follow the trend of my O2 to determine if I need to add a second inhaler to daily medication. Something that I have to monitor daily.

[@gwyndyr32]

Apple Watch blood oxygen sensor info matches all 3 blood oxygen sensors that I own.

[@jaimegz]

It’s annoying that big tech get continuously sued for monopolistic behaviour and stuff that doesn’t make much sense in my opinion and when they clearly are “stealing” from a company it gets ignored and takes so long.

[@kuronekogamer2065]

Can't wait to see people selling for 999999x the original price because "rare".

[@AriKolbeinsson]

When it comes to blood oxygen level there is something you are missing. People who are sick, older, or have asthma can get a lot of helpful info from the O2 sensor, and it may be a core part of why they bought the watch. People who no longer maintain a 97% or higher blood O2 can benefit from these measurements, and trend data may be life saving, especially in conjunction with the other sensors. I really like Dr. Mike, but I feel that his dismissal may be premature, although I do agree that too much data can lead to paranoia. Even the precision of the EKG is amazing, when compared to proper hospital units. You just get the same pattern, even when something non-normal happens. This means that answering the question "when did those symptoms start" can be done with accuracy, and be backed up with a time stamp and a precise one-lead EKG graph that shows whether there has been a change in the pattern. As to the O2 accuracy, I have compared the O2 sensor to a professional unit at low altitudes, and at extreme altitudes (19 000 ft) where normal blood O2 may be closer to 80-85% at rest (and dropping lower under exertion). The 2 sensors just matched at all times. So the accuracy is way higher than could be expected. Interestingly, if the precision were 5% (as suggested in the video) then the device would be worse than useless. Actively harmful. The accuracy needs to be quite high to be useful at all, and extremely high to be really useful.

[@SirDavidAsher]

I dont know why but Andrew and David look like formula 1 drivers in this episode, lol

[@Drarjunmenon]

I think the panel talked about this from a tech perspective alone. Blood Oxygen sensor, even if we take a 2-5 % error, is still a very important and useful feature to have in any smartwatch. I have a lot of older patients who wear their smartwatch simply to track their blood oxygen levels, this can help them to seek medical attention when it shows a drastic change ( True for many suffering from COPD, Asthma, ILD, Long COVID). This rings especially true for people susceptible to Carbon dioxide Narcosis, which can be a fatal complication for a lot of these aforementioned patients. This coupled with fall detection can actually save lives if set up and tracked accurately by the consumers. I think people unaware of the larger implications of this technology simply look at this as a gimmick, when its a vital aspect of any health focused smartwatch. Even for endurance athletes ( For whom ultra was initially targeted), like trekking and climbers, Blood oxygen plays a crucial role in determining the oxygen availability at higher altitudes. These were the few reasons why I got my parents a smartwatch.

[@leojarquin]

Well I'm sure that the medical company will sale that wrist bad not watch but wrist bad way cheaper than an apple watch making more accesible and saving more lifes

[@timsmy-pr9sw]

Temperature sensor… this needs to be made more accurate. This info could be useful for the masses everyday, over blood oxygen levels. You’re more likely to notice you’re light headed before the watch tells you you’re under 90%.

[@SanDiego619RS]

Basically bribed Masimos employees.

[@CanadianMooseHead]

My really big question is this: What happens to all the people who have apple care for there series 9 or Ultra and it gets banged up, damaged or almost destroyed, than what will happen in the form of replacement? Because with apple care, at least here in Canada, it’s far less expensive to replace the glass on an iPhone 15 pro max than it is on a series 9 because the whole watch is just replaced since the Genius Bar has no fundamental way of fixing the hardware. Really curious about this.

[@vsDrunkenYoda]

This was happening years ago with other platforms (USA only) do to USDA,etc regulations. Is it really a copyright thing or something 🤔 else like a conspiracy by Definition? Specifically the USA because this doesn't happen overseas.

[@cmptuomp3]

@7:35 VO2 max is something completely different and unrelated to SPO2

[@EricCosner]

This is so weird because I was thinking about how I should use that feature earlier when I was doing Wim Hof breathing, and then I remembered how finicky it is and you have to be still and everything and I never used it.

[@uneek5336]

Hi which Apple or is there an Apple Watch that could measure blood glucose? 2:08

[@lmena5696]

I am a co-author of a few academic publications regarding infant screening panels using pulse oximetry. Because I was the software and tech member of the research team, I became quite familiar with the technology of pulse oximetry. This is not just an algorithm that requires interfacing with the electronics. In order to account for the pulse of the blood, this took a ton of measurements with live human beings for the algorithm to actually work. Masimo's technology has saved the lives of many babies who had congenital heart disease at birth. Apple literally stole all of that research work because it wasn't just the algorithm. It was about gathering a lot of human data. It was also about getting FDA approval which costs an arm and a leg also. Apple was using their lawyers to prevent the lawsuit from moving forward, so there was no other choice but to go to trade commission and work that way. This is all Apple's fault.

[@Tristinfate]

The ban doesn't cover stock on hand, I just got one from AT&T

[@JoshOntko]

A remote patient monitor system built into a wearable that is accurate is the most valuable feature for me purchasing a device. Without puls-ox, ecg, etc I will choose a different device.