The Battle for Mars

The Battle for Mars from B5's Endgame (episode 20, season 4). Please note this is all the relevant CGI extracted in order from the episode.
I recently started re-watching (yet again) my Babylon 5 DVD box set collection. Figured I'd do a favour to all my subscribers that did so because of the B5 content I uploaded in the past.
Although it's entertainment, we can also consider it educational for anyone studying CGI of the mid 90's.
This is a non-monetized channel.

[@cteal2018]

The "White Star" easily a member of the Hall of Fame for Spaceships. This is what a Destroyer Class vessel should be!.

[@disraelidemon]

The shot that starts at 00:28 is where I realised that visual effects had changed forever. I grew up with TV shows and movies where the only way to do this kind of mix of live action and VFX was to intercut between studio footage of actors and fixed-camera model shots. To go from troops on the ground to the Earth fleet in orbit, in a single shot, on a TV budget, was utterly revolutionary.

[@patsilverfang]

"The Battle for Mars" was more of a drive by blasting for the White Stars XD

[@ML-yn9yu]

Lmao, I was thinking the same thing..

[@Tommieboy2009]

Yeah...thst why they lost one or two of them?

[@ThomasFishwick]

You've edited a lot of the context out of this The most important part of the battle was the disabling of most of the Earth Fleet by the Techno-paths. Knocking out command the structure and communications. Those few Clark-loyal ships that weren't sabotaged had no coordination. The White Stars and "Rebel" Earth ships struck while the Fleet was in chaos.

[@FurdemonLar]

That's all good and fine, but it's not CGI. Please read the description.

[@Matej_Sojka]

I never understood the scene on the bridge of Apollo where Captain is upset about not being in command. You do not argue with a superior officer, he was a Captain and all other ships also had at least Captains in command, some maybe Majors even, the guy he was talking to was a General, a literal flag officer. That general decided that Apollo was best performing ship out of all thirty, what captain should have said was "Thank you, Sir, for making Apollo the flagship of the defense fleet, that will look amazing on my resume."

[@TheCormTube]

I guess it would be hard having to be second in command while your ship goes into battle, possibly it's last battle but yeah you'd really want to bite your tongue.

[@biocapsule7311]

Remember this is Clark's military... at least a sizable number of them loyalist even if the worst got kill when they met Ivanova. They are far from the best EF has to offer. There will always be some whose ego is bigger then their brain even in normal military.

[@sparrowlt]

Admirals or flag officers command the fleet..not the fleet AND the ship they are on.. so i guess the normal procedure would be for Mitchell to remain in command and for Lefcourt to command over him and the rest of the fleet either from the main bridge or from the admiral bridge (If Omegas have those, they do have at least 3 bridges) i guess Sheridan took command of the Agammenon as a symbol (it was a last request from Ivanova) otherwise Sheridan would command the battle from the Dogato (Delen's flag Cruiser) or one of the WhiteStars as he had to this point (tought to be fair when Sheridan is in a WhiteStar he seems to be allways in command of it)

[@Matej_Sojka]

@@sparrowlt Sheridan is Ranger one and White Stars are Ranger ships, so yes, when on board he is the highest officer at all times.

[@michaeldendulk9225]

Flag officers of a fleet are (vice) admirals, generals would generally be in command of land forces, so in that regards, the captain may have had a point. Major is also an army rank, not a naval rank and is actually lower in the food chain that the captain rank, it is roughly equivalent to the naval commander rank. The army equivalent of a captain would be a colonel. Admirals do sometimes take command of ships, mostly large vessels like aircraft carriers or, when they were still in use, battleships, but I think this has become less common in modern times.

[@manelcolomer9044]

Whats wrong with the Hyperion class ships? In every battle they participate, when the fun begins, they dissapear. It happened when Clark forces attacked B5, it happens here, it happened in the final assault againts Earth and Clark... XD

[@Pikkabuu]

They have very good stealth fields.

[@donder91]

Just budget cuts I assume. Shame I always found it the prettiest Earth Alliance ship design.

[@trazyntheinfinite9895]

They know better where to be when the shooting starts.

[@joshuasitzema9920]

Budget. They did this show on a fraction of what DS9 had which ran at the same time.

[@SantomPh]

The Omegas are just more powerful. The Hyperions are now just support craft and stand back

[@Nighthawke70]

This is something the old DASPO teams would be filming.

[@CptApplestrudl]

Thinking about it, it's weird to have runways on Mars. The air is too thin for wings to work properly and the gravity is so light, there's no reason to not start vertically.

[@rfletch62]

I was thinking the terraforming started long ago, which is why Garibaldi and his team can wear Antarctic parkas and a oxygen mask, instead of a full pressure suit. On the other hand, the Ingenuity helicopter on Mars has made plenty of flights in that thin air (though the rotors have to spin 2x as fast as on Earth).

[@unematrix]

There is 1 good reason for them: catapults. Because the air is so thin you can launch a ship directly from the ground to orbit.

[@cillianennis9921]

Likely its easier to fly off by going horizontal. On Earth the biggest break through in spaceflight we can hope for is the ability to take off from the ground like a plane because its cheaper to go with the spin of a planet fully & not going up & then following the spin. That's my best guess at it. Also the atmosphere is likely a bit better due to the fact we see people wearing less space suit like suits & anyway lift is your best friend when it comes to fuel efficiency.

[@elfhighmage8240]

Well, if the Millennium Falcon can be flown like a fighter, why not the Whitestars eh?

[@thegreenmanofnorwich]

I quite like the comparison, though the scales are vastly different. Mind you, B5 always had fairly uncertain scales for things.

[@SiriusMined]

Because Babylon 5 does a better job of trying to match physics

[@Spookssga]

was it me or did i see a Centauri ship

[@ChrisSmith-tr4lg]

Yeah. It probably just had a captain who wanted to watch all the fun. Londo would be jealous.

[@brianwhedon8442]

You did. And a distance behind the Vorchan there is a Narn G'Quan cruiser. I'm not 100% certain of this, but this is supposedly the G'Tok; the Narn cruiser that swore allegiance to G'Kar and Sheridan for granting them sanctuary after the Narn-Centauri War (The Fall of Night). The G'Tok is the Narn cruiser that fought in the Army of Light against the Shadows (Walkabout & Shadow Dancing)

[@steffen19k]

Andromeda's music soundtrack would have really made this show awesome

[@Matej_Sojka]

@@brianwhedon8442 It probably was G'Tok as it is specifically said to be only ship of it´s class to survive Narn-Centauri War.

[@girlgarde]

@@Matej_Sojka Actually, several G'Quan Heavy Cruisers were used by the Narns when they and the Drazi attacked Centauri Prime late in season 5.

[@patrickstivers7387]

Is it just me or does it seem like the White Stars weren't given the same stealth systems as Minbari ships of the line?

[@wolfgangjr74]

Good question.

[@WordoftheFree]

Most likely not but they did atleast get the reactive armor that adapts and heals itself "If not outright Destroyed" in an engagement.

[@themisspultone]

also possible info from the Shadows helped develop counters to the EW

[@battleoid2411]

The omega class was equipped with much better sensor technology than the novas and hyperion classes that fought in the minbari war, as well as the fact that the minbari helped earth rebuild and participated in the babylon project, so it's very likely earth force was able to make further counters to their stealth tech. Then you add on the shadow tech being brought in, and it's not that far fetched they can do damage, as even during the minbari war earth ships had more than enough firepower to take out minbari ships, they just couldn't see them

[@robertjdolman]

minbari gave pulse cannons, gravity drive and gravity plating ( internal gravity) no stealth. vorlon gave adaptive armor, main bean cannon and nav systems.

[@zephyr8072]

It's a good thing this series didn't operate by dumbass JJ Trek physics or all those Omegas would've immediately dropped down to Mars the moment their engines were disabled.

[@penningtonknickernacker921]

Yeah but the LENS FLARES would have been E P I C

[@barrywhite8747]

I don't understand this scene, I assume earthforce ships are in formation heading in the direction of the local jumpgate, but they know Sheridan has ships capable of opening their own jumpgates and even the ones that don't can follow the ones that do, so his fleat really could come out of hyerspace anywhere near the planet. So why have all your ships heading in one direction when your enemy can come out of hyperspace from any direction.

[@thesapphiredragon8568]

A great many tactics in b5 involve sending lots of small fighters through a jumpgate to break the enemy formation before your fleet arrives so that may be what they were trying to prevent.

[@timboerger2240]

Unfortunately, it's a pieced together compilation of starship scenes of this particular battle. There's huge bits missing primarily the coordination of Mars ground forces and the use of psy-corp "weapons" that disable many of the larger fleet vessels. Also, you don't get the background that the whitestar opening a warp gate in atmosphere to take out fighters and anti-air defense was a very risky maneuver.

[@barrywhite8747]

@@thesapphiredragon8568 that's a good point, but even so, wouldn't you hold back some to protect their flank?

[@barrywhite8747]

@@timboerger2240 I understand your point, I have the series in my iTunes and I went back and watched it. After the ships were attacked internally the general says to send the still-functioning ship forward which still doesn't answer my question. The point ‘The Sapphire Dragon’ made is good and I know it's just a sci-fi show, it's just when you love a sci-fi show like this that did a really good job with world-building this just doesn't seem to make sense, a general would know better.

[@danielc2701]

@@barrywhite8747 My money is on that close to planet jumps are not really that safe or recommended for fleets, like in "accidentally smash half of them into planet" unsafe. They're not pointing towards a jumpgate but rather just "away from the planet".

[@robertregan8410]

I saw the Nemesis among the ships in orbit of Mars. I take it her crew was one of the ships that were playing both sides against the middle?

[@SantomPh]

The Nemesis joined Sheridan's forces at Proxima. This may be a new ship with the name, or Clark's forces managed to retake it, like the Furies

[@darrelldundee7198]

the vesta was in the same boat too.@@SantomPh

[@PalofGrrr]

Much as I liked that show.I have often wondered. If the shadows were "MILLION OF YEARS" ahead of the "younger races" Our ships should have been very easy targets and we should have lost????

[@KarolusTemplareV]

Did the ea ships even fire once?

[@donder91]

If I remember correctly they were disabled (hacked). So they could not fire. Sheridan's forces destroyed their engines so the mars defense fleet could not pursue them while they went for Earth even after getting control back. Been 15 years though since I've seen the full series.

[@SantomPh]

Their shadow tech was sabotaged via telepathy.

[@stephenbyrne2170]

I don't remember this battle on the show.

[@trazyntheinfinite9895]

"Battle"

[@penningtonknickernacker921]

yeah that whole thing was weak

[@ortwinvomschildberg4717]

Looks like a PC game from the late 90s and not like a TV Series

[@toddkes5890]

Have you seen graphics from PC games in the late 90s? Also, this series didn't have the budget that Star Trek TNG did.

[@user-ro5fl7he7w]

Группа компаний йота тарифы мегафон на сети сбербанк

[@HarmonRAB-hp4nk]

omg so lame... just take it out from orbit.... like we'd do now ...... future must be pretty fuked up

[@exposingproxystalkingorgan4164]

This is the allied rebel Earth fleet and alien fleets. 😂