The BEST 80mm in Warmachine MK4 is not close

[@olovwinroth8264]

Hi! Really fun to see some Warmachine MK4 content making it's way onto youtube! Here is my own ranking, having played extensively with/against all 4 80mms except the Siege Tarask: 1. Void Engine 2. AC2-Bison 3. Siege Tarask 4. Zephyr Now, let's go over each in turn: The Void Engine is absolutely insane at 7p. Now, this is not purely because of it's own awesomeness, but some key synergies between it and other units in Dusk. Namely, they have Souless Guardians which are a unit of Shield Guards, that also converts into Wights on death. This ability should not be understimated, since they can direct the opponents shooting onto themselves and then they become Wights. So if the opponent doesn't want to give you wights, they cannot shoot you at all. They also help keeping the Void Engine itself safe from ranged threats. The second unit that synergizes well with it is Seeker Adepts. Their warjack buffs are magic, and you likely want these guys anyway in order to fuel your battlegroup, and they allow you to actually re-fill the Void Engines after they have activated so they can do all their Wighty goodness. And all this is before their own output is even in the picture, which in and of itself is quite good. Potentially 2 boosted pow 14 shots at a debuffed enemy can do some real work. Let's move on to the Bison, which I as a Khador player value alot. This thing is super reliable, tanky in comparison to it's counterparts (but also likely pays for it in points) and can easily work and stay safe on it's own accord. The key to the Bison is getting work done over several turns, which it quite frankly excels at. It threatens far at 21", has the potential of killing 6 models at range and if any important high def or Stealth solos comes withing it's range it can easily take them out with a Both Barrels blast damage. And after it is done it repositions 2" and is 16" from whatever model it attacked, letting you quite litteraly pick apart your opponents list. Should things get close to it it's not bad there either, so in the lategame you can get even more out of it. Ekaterinas Invocations of Wrath helps it's questionable RAT 5 along as well. In summary, a great workhorse and 10 points that are quite hard for your opponent to take out. The Siege Tarask I have not had the pleasure to play against yet sadly, so my opinion on it is purely theoretical. That said, it looks OK, but I think Orgoth has better options for the points. It's Harpoon has high potential, but unboostable RAT 5 makes it quite unreliable, plus there are a ton of ways to play around it, like terrain, placing smaller models in front, a single Shield Guard behind your important models will screw it over a bit etc. Being a melee piece it also has to get closer to the enemy and it is outthreatened by alot of units and jacks which will have no problem killing it in a single activation. It is also quite easy for the opponent to not give it any rage tokens and then kill it in a single turn because of it's low initial threatrange. That said, Horruskh problably plays it really well with his feat and re-roll ability (which in your video you said was a boost, which it isn't, just a re-roll, but anyway, still good). Would be interested in hearing how you find it after trying it out on the table :) Finally, the Zephyr might look OK at 7p, but imo it is far outclassed by the units of Storm Legion. Disruption has sort of lost it's value since basically every army has Empower units. It's offensive output is questionable, unboosted rat 6 pow 13 aren't great, however it is boosted a little by having Electro-leap on all attacks. While Ionization certainly is a powerful rule, a better approach in my opinion is taking flags for the units. They have Ionization[[5"], but also increases the units hit chances so you likely want them anyway. And the units in Storm Legion is just amazing, so I'd much rather take any 5-man unit instead of the Zephyr. Keep up the good work guys! :)

[@WarjaxGamesClub]

This all makes a lot of sense. When you look at the models within their respective army it is definitely a different conversation. I have to fully admit I don't have any play time with/against these yet in their respective armies. Thank you for well thought write-up on these. I really like the Zephyr but you are right, the units in storm legion are so good. I think the biggest disappointment for me is ionization sounds great until you realize all the weapons aren't lightning, which makes sense you don't want to have two storm legion armies bouncing off of each other the whole game. Siege Tarask looks awesome and seems awesome. In actual games, I can't speak to it, it just gets us hype to look at and talk about. Also you are correct, it's just signs and portents which is still really good but thank you for the correction! As far as the Bison goes, are you bringing two? I know you can build jacks for cheaper that are tougher, but they're not providing the same offensive output and not scoring flags either.

[@olovwinroth8264]

@@WarjaxGamesClub As for Storm Legion, there are a fair bit of good electrical weapons, but as you say it would be silly to have them all be fully electrical in case of a mirror match. I find the Electro-bombard on the Stryker (that you do mention in the video), the spray on the Courser as well as the 5-man unit with sprays to be very good guns even before ionziation is factored in, and they become quite amazing with it in play. That said, taking a 7p platform with mediocre damage output for that benefit when it also exists on unit Command Attachments for 2p apiece seems less than ideal to me. The Siege Tarask model looks awesome to be sure! I look forward to seeing what they can do on the table as well! In one of my lists I am indeed bringing 2 Bisons, and I have 1 in the other one as well. I really do like 9p shield Dire Wolves as well, but as you say they don't have the same impact and damage output throughout a game as the Bison. You also reach a hard line when taking more jacks damages your capacity to play the scenario, so the fact that they score flags is a huge deal actually.

[@WarjaxGamesClub]

Update: Craig made two Tarask look horrible on Sunday and I am not happy about it lol

[@tyrantsonthefield]

The 80mm are great big fan of this design space. ESPN style power ranking 1.Void engine 2. M. Bison 3. Seige Tarask 4. Zephry Supporting evidence 1.) The void engine power token mechanic and ability to generate solos off the death of your units combined with an aggressive points costing shows this was very much a designed to be in a majority of builds for Dusk. 2.) With Bison everydays a tuesday. It gives khador a strong weapons platform that helps their infantry get up the board and blasting opposing infantry off the table. Its a gun platform that can ahoot and scoot. Only thing that keeps it out of top spot is the cost and it being designed to be an optional buy. 3.) Seige Tarask best scuplt but not the utility or value of the void engine and not the clear fun and gun of yhe bison. The seige tarask is a super solo whose output is close to a heavy but not quite. 3 mat 7s at pow 16 and the ability to be affected by warrior based buffs are all big in fhis models favor. The gun is strictly a bonus when iy work it works but you dont count on it. No boosting mechanic is a negative. The big negative is a smart opponent nevwr gives this a token u nless their killing it. Now in practice this has held true but 2 of these on the table.inteligwntly played usually gwts you to a situation you have one that is functionally unkillable after trades. But pwople will look at the list of ehat he does with tokena and lament he doeant have them. If you just treat him as a super solo youll be very happy ig you keep looking at his token abiloty list theyll be sad. I think hes getting shield guarf away from being the best on the list. 4. Zephyr its a 7 point ionization banner. Everything else it brings is weaker than taking anything else in

[@bquinl20]

Great pod , great to see you back

[@jonathancrider533]

I feel like we're moving into the stage where keeping the game simple is sort of out of the picture, and now things just get more and more complicated for the edition. Happens with every game.

[@WarjaxGamesClub]

So I agree with you. I am curious if your take is that this is a bad thing or a good thing?

[@jonathancrider533]

@@WarjaxGamesClub good question. It just seems like a natural thing that happens with war games. 40k has been doing this for years with each edition reset. It’s like this is the first time PP has gone into that territory. Kind of impressive that they made it this far. Also, I’m sure we as players will always find things we think are weird about a big rules change. We might not agree with the designers on what we think is simple. I think the game is pretty good right now, but could use a little spicing up. Extra rules are one way to do that. Mostly I’m waiting for them to release a new mk4 prime army that grabs my attention.

[@JonathanKnight-l2p]

Bison looks the best. Metal Slug FTW.

[@WarjaxGamesClub]

Now THAT is a comparison! You're not wrong

[@Terroreyes-j8l]

Hell ya

[@williambryant6175]

Was Magnus not out when this was done? Isn’t Invictus 80mm?

[@WarjaxGamesClub]

We were way off, but Magnus was not out yet. Turns out probably Carver and the Boar are probably really good too! Also, Wyvern has to be up there now.

[@Direwoof]

ye teh siege taraski is seriously op. And then you look at tiberion whos 18 points ooof.

[@WarjaxGamesClub]

18 points for Tiberion is uhhhh yeah lol

[@Direwoof]

@@WarjaxGamesClub Yea almost as expensive as new magnus jack and magnus himself, I'm def picking him up, he works for ANY faction so I can play him in my legion ret and menoth. I don't know how a mercenary exactly "works" for the legion but i'm not complainin lol.

[@Vulgaris_Warmachine]

😮

[@cronanevermore2033]

No Invictus?

[@yesimbrandon]

We were just focusing on the solos, but good point!