The Biggest Problem With Elden Ring

Thank you for watching and enjoy the video!
★ Join the OnlyPots: / @agtjake
♦ Discord: / discord
♦ 2nd Channel: / @allgoodthingsvods
► Elden Ring Lore Playlist: • Elden Ring
► Elden Ring 100% Walkthrough Playlist: • 100% Walkthrough
*The comment section is not the place for posting long, drawn-out theories. Please join the discord and use the proper channels for that👍*
#eldenring #eldenringlore #agtjake

[@glocktaivious8825]

Can't wait for every dlc item you pick up to have massive lore dumps. Not even weapons,you just pick up some random bug and the description explains Marikas history

[@glorytoukraine5524]

Turns out, she was a bug all along. And the one you find is her father

[@sirgideonofnir6840]

*picks up red tinged dung* This is from Godfrey's later years once time caught up to him, *goes into his bowl movements* and that is why his children are cursed.

[@glorytoukraine5524]

@@sirgideonofnir6840 Eat your veggies or you kids will be born as abominations

[@spookysioux1224]

We can hope

[@johnsadventures4675]

Steps on grass. Cutscene plays. Malenia camped here with her mother. Playing fetch with torrent. Eating crab meat and turtle necks. It was a memory malenia dreams of even today, on her way to find the Lord of Frenzy. Delivering him his destined death.

[@james240878]

I think modern gaming criticism is just getting a bit insane to be honest. The game has nothing left to offer me after 7 consecutive playthroughs. What are we even saying at this point. We’ve all become such refined consumers that we want our chosen media to be absolutely perfect. One game cannot be all these different things. It can’t be tightly paced and also be a huge nonlinear open world. It baffles me that people complain about this as if it were even possible.

[@brycesumrall7248]

Ive been saying this for years. The gaming consumer base is the whiniest, snobbiest, most entitled demographic of consumers ive ever seen. Jesus himself could reach out from the heavens and bestow upon us the holy grail of gaming greatness like Moses recieving the 10 Commandments, and gamers would *still* piss and moan about it.

[@james240878]

@@speedpoke3019 I mean don’t get me wrong, I’ve been enjoying the videos on this channel, but the fact the lore has ‘run dry’ isn’t a problem for the game, it’s a problem for the whole industry that’s grown up around these games. The lore of the game is perfectly good, in fact it’s brilliant. But it isn’t endless. Same with the replayability.

[@TheGoblinAnchorite]

one of the greatest experiences youll have in gaming, its not enough tho. Come on now

[@kingchillcali]

I haven’t even finished my first run and I’m 150 hours in and I’ve been enjoying it since weekend release. Most entertaining $60 I’ve spent this whole year. How many hours has this person enjoyed this game before they made this video? How many more hours of enjoyment would they need to be satisfied with this game?

[@enman009]

Not talking specifically about this video, but there's a reason 9gag and Adult Swim made fun of gamers for the exact same points: complaining for petty reason and calling it "constructive criticism."

[@mathewmichaluk7329]

Elden Ring is the kind of game that I wish existed before mainstream internet usage. A big part of why we're already at this point is because millions of people are all playing at the same time, and sharing their discoveries with each other online. This game would have literal years of content to go looking for and speculate on if the only resource you had was whatever you and your friends talked about at the school the next day.

[@futurepastmedia5029]

Dude! Yeh like SNES era type stuff - mortal kombat or link to the past. I still would of dumped all my time into Elden Ring, but you're right stuff would be hidden for quite some time.

[@VI_universe]

elden ring ps2 and xbox demake??

[@sirgideonofnir6840]

@@VI_universe honestly would be hilarious and I'd totally buy it

[@rugie6247]

Right? Too many lore channels now.

[@sirgideonofnir6840]

@@rugie6247 I agree, but honestly alot of people waited for Vaati but he rarely posts so people started looking other places. And some good creators have come out to where I uses to love vaati but now I coukd care less because his quality and quantity dosent equal others anymore

[@wolflordshaitan]

Well to be honest, a lot of amazing writers leave holes in their own lore. When asked about what happened to the entwives, Tolkien said "I don't know". I like miazakis approach to world building, its like we are archeologist, doomed to speculate on all we find.

[@rudydaberry122]

Exactly

[@J-manli]

The lore in ER is still amazing. But I argue that the game isn’t the best with the delivery of the story as compared to the previous game. There isn’t much in-game reason for us to care about becoming Elden Lord. No one explains the importance of such a title. In all DS games we’re told to rekindle the flame to preserve the age of fire where lore items gives you more information for you to decide whether rekindling is a good decision or not. In Bloodborne you’re encouraged to seek power and forbidden knowledge to survive the night and end the nightmare. In Sekiro, you’re shown that Wolf’s dedication to Kuro is more than just a sense of duty. Lore is the background information that informs the world building and how the events of the game came to be. Plot is what the characters are trying to physically accomplish. Story is the in-the-moment situations that makes us care for the characters and their struggles.

[@absolstoryoffiction6615]

@@J-manli Oscar of Astora died for you, in DS1, after telling you about the "prophesy" and why he would free us. That's reason enough for me. lol

[@buckschneider7973]

But this game does it wayy too much and ruins the fun. Leaving too many holes is lazy and doesn’t get people to care about the story. It should maybybe used for side contents not main. Any other games, it would’ve been labeled as lazy

[@J-manli]

@@absolstoryoffiction6615 My point exactly. While the game is still vague, it provides you with just enough character moments to care about why you do the things you do. ER is much more “video gamey” by comparison. “Go fight these guys because the game told you to.” “Why is there a bunch of repeated bosses in these side dungeon? Because it’s a game and people expect a boss at the end.”

[@anonymousnate678]

I think Elden Ring lore is built to be like a mythology. It's somewhat scattered and filled with a lot of stories/characters that don't necessarily have any direct connections but it has a lot of similarities to Greek, and Norse mythology in that there are many relevant stories to understanding the world and lands the game occupies. It gives the lands between a long rich history that could span a timeframe of thousands of years and essentially shows us the rise and fall of the order of gods in this land.

[@curtisfarley6558]

yeah its probably been a very long time since the shattering.

[@fortheloveofexy]

This! My impression of the game from the jump was that it was written as a collection of myths instead of one cohesive story. That's why we see contradictions of events and why the timeline feels disjointed and a bit nonsensical. It's also why we see duality of characters (Marika and Radagons connection to me feels like the different aspects of Odin, or even the Greek gods like Aphrodite and Dionysus. One thing what was really common in Greek mythology was the gods having different aspects and personalities depending on the region. So for example, Athens saw Aphrodite as similar to the goddess of love and beauty we know today, but the Spartans actually saw her as a war goddess bc that fit better with their culture. It makes sense, then, that the people Marika warred against (such as the giants and the Csrian Royals) would view her as a conquerer and champion of the opposing army - to the point that this perception of her emerged as its own aspect - Radagon. Similar to how Margit is an aspect of Morgott, basically. They're both one and the same, but one is just a small piece of the whole

[@middle11]

This comment says it all. And now instead of speculations and theories *sigh* Now the videos are just complaining and gaslighting this idea of how broken elder ring lore is

[@alwaysxnever]

I thought that was the whole idea to begin with.

[@thephoenix4093]

Pretty obvious since no other souls game makes god so literal. Most of them were just bigger or stronger people than humans.

[@GitGoodGaming]

I think the BIGGEST issue for Elden Ring is the placement of the smithing stone bell bearings. They scatter the first 2 so far into the game and once you get to Farum Azula there's literally 3 or 4 in that one tiny area. They should have allowed access to the 1st and 2nd ones earlier and spread the others out around the map maybe leaving only the last one for either stone type in Farum Azula.

[@GitGoodGaming]

Not to mention by the time you get the smithing stone bell bearing 1 your weapon is far past the upgrade levels for those stones and 2 is a joke because by that time you most likely need stones 5 or higher by that point.

[@Henbot]

Smithing Bell's could have been more spread out for sure instead of all in Farum Azula but upgrading your weapon makes them pretty beastly including your build or any buffs, so I get why they left them to Farum.

[@ASNS117Zero]

Yeah, the placement of the bearings was egregiously bad. You should have been able to get the 1st prior to Godrick, the 2nd before reaching Altus Plateau, the 3rd before Mountaintop of Giants, and the 4th before Farum Azula, with the capstone smithing stones being in Farum Azula and the Haligtree.

[@destrobatman5640]

Yea👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼

[@tyhjyys]

they shouldve got rid of upgrade materials completely if you ask me. too many weapons and playstyles to experiment with and its all held back by this ancient ass system

[@--charles--3561]

I feel like the issue is that everyone covered too quickly. And its understandble but it leaves nothing else to be explored for new time and old time players

[@TSpoon823]

Been thinking that too. We all binged on it, consumed almost everything there was to do over and over again, and the wonder why we got sick of it. My first play through was 170 hours and I'm ready for NG+ or a second character, but maybe it's a good idea to walk away for a little while and then come back. The community hasn't really done that.

[@doboi8121]

Yeah. If people played different it would then be different

[@Kn1ghtborne]

@@TSpoon823 You're catching on but also play differently There's no reason to see 100% of the completed perfect quests in chronological order on your first run My story occurred differently 3 times because of this and it really stood out as a natural occurrence.

[@TSpoon823]

@@Kn1ghtborne I totally agree. There's stuff I definitely didn't get to in my first go. I did a lot and loved it all. There's stuff I skipped for just that reason. I didn't want to get burned out. I'm glad too.

[@brentbentKRFP]

You say random crap, I see an organic process of speculation, conversation and creativity. I've never played any Souls like game before and adore this--I'm nearing 600 hours. For me, the game is not too big. But I am a huge nerd for open world sandboxes with faves including RDR 2, GTA V, Greedfall, Dragon's Dogma, FO: New Vegas, Far Cry 4, Pathefinder: Wrath of the Righteous, Divinity Original Sin 2 and a few games that aren't sandbox oriented like Control, Hades and Cities: Skylines. Your critiques are basically a complaint about human nature and not the game. You're annoyed that you cannot push a button, erase your memory of having played Elden Ring. Of course, repeatedly telling yourself what you are doing is tedious or annoying is metaprogramming yourself to be annoyed and see things as tedious. As in, sure, such thoughts are bound to happen but when you put it onto repeat it's going to color your experience and not in a positive manner. I agree the runes things is ridiculous, especially losing them all if you die, which is utterly counter productive towards fostering an exploratory adventure attitude, especially for somebody like me in their mid 50's with chronic pain and neurological issues and mediocre eyesight when corrected. That's what mods are for. To make the game more tailored to our tastes instead of telling the world that it isn't tailored to your tastes. There's a great one that's in the form of the crimson medallion so unequipping it stops its benefits. It has five different flavors, mine doesn't alter mine or the opponents damage (some empower the player and weaken the enemies) but it does double runes, slowly regens HP/FP and adds a few hundred points to discovery so farming for cool stuff doesn't become boringly tedious quickly fast. Check out smoughtown's lore. (Literally one of the two ER streamer's whose names I can actually recall--sorry the other isn't yours--is SmoughTown and the other is skumnut and it's difficult to forget a name like that, I've tried ;) THe lore videos are hypnotic and informative and backed up by writings in the game. For me, the game is not too big any more than the combat is too hard; they both may be true but with time that truth will wane. You're just not used to attempting to visualize all the interconnections of the game places at this level. From Software had you juggling three balls then suddenly chucks in three more all at once not one at a time. In past games, I'm assuming for you since I didn't play any previous FS games, each area was an area and mostly contained within itself even if there was some metroidvania backtracking and whatnot. In Elden Ring the areas, besides the legacy dungeons and the generic dungeons, are diffuse. To me, it adds to the grandness of the world not subtract from it. I do agree the generic dungeons are too generic. But a studio only has so much money and many hours that can be spent. Again it comes to pattern recognition and instead of telling yourself it's tedium mentally make up jokes about why things ended up this way. Something about Godbroski's cousin getting a degree in archaeology instead of murder like a proper lad. We would all love an erase that experience button for Elden Ring so we can play it brand new all over again. Lot things like that in life where people would use such a button, probably, knowing humanity, way too often. I think the organic flow and forming of the lore is an awesome thing to experience and most corporations wouldn't allow it to happen because they would be too worried every other entry would be about sucking dick & cock. Somehow Miyazaki permeates his will into his creation so deeply that people almost have to treat it with the respect it deserves. (I'm sure being an old school fan you know the story about how he hid how difficult his very first game was because he knew the suits would hate it for being 'too challenging.) Personally, I'm all about the world building. Mediocre gaming can be supplanted by superb storytelling with Planescape: Torment being a prime example. Epic narrative, meh gaming mechanics. Your mind is an echo chamber. Tell it what it is doing it tedious and it will certainly become tedious. That's why billionaires can look bored at events we'd drop a year off of our lives to attend. They've told themselves it's boring and adding in the repetition it becomes boring if you tell yourself that's what's going to happen. This is one of SmoughTown's best, "The Nox and the Eternal City" kzbin.info/www/bejne/qGWnY5ysqdiehbs This is the Crimson Medallion mod at Nexus Mods and it can alter just a few things or jump start your passage to being a god, there's five flavors. www.nexusmods.com/eldenring/mods/207

[@markv2267]

Underrated comment, bumbing. The man played the game through 7 times at least, and 6 of those 7 he viewed it as a job and not a game to have fun with or explore... In my opinion the "lack" of lore doesn't subtract from the game at all, it should only draw you more into it. You made a very correct and concise comment, well versed brother, I hope after this game you will explore the other titles of FromSoft, and find the same level of enjoyment as you have from Elden Ring, they may be smaller in scale but are just as big in character. I wish you well on your journey, friend!

[@DW-iv6cc]

scrolled down hoping to find a comment saying this, can’t imagine getting 7 playthroughs out of a game and complaining that the game didn’t… have enough to offer?? couldn’t have said it better myself

[@keepyourarminside]

There’s a lot of things to do, but there isn’t a lot of reasons to do them. We can only learn so much from exploring, but eventually you’re just wandering around. That’s how I feel at least.

[@XDarkBrotherhoodHD]

Yup

[@namelesshunter4714]

not to mention 90% item we collected from exploration sucks.

[@monk3110]

Yeeeeeaaa…..

[@SpottedHares]

I did the math, the campaign(we will get to that in a moment) is 3 hours long and removed most of the will be running though empty open world or worthless trash mob encounters. Soft thinks it should take 30-60 hours, so 90-95% of the game was pointless Ubisoft like activities existing to bloat game time. The campaign it self exist because some narrator says a tarnished became Elden lord, and that’s it that the entire set up build up and pay off of the campaign.

[@syugyeh]

Wanted to respond to a really interesting point about the scaling and balancing in the game. And then it hit me, this feeling of not getting accomplishment as the game goes on/past your 1st run is because down to the scaling and item placement in the game. The game is built to be unrewarding the more you do at once. But what FromSoft didn't realize is if you hold a cake in front of a pack of hungry dogs they're not going to eat one slice at a time once you drop it. So people binge the game, explore the lore(and find out its all open ended), and find all the secrets, and then you have nothing left. There's 180 bosses and I remember every single design because there's only 12 unique bosses in the entire game and some of those reappear as enemies.

[@mysticwizard1943]

look at the list on the wiki, the vast majority of catacomb bosses appear in other catacombs, not to mention that most of them are just regular enemies you'll encounter later or in some cases have already seen - just with a big f-u healthbar slapped on for no good reason other than to create artificial difficulty

[@tinminator8905]

What is your definition of a unique boss? There is 15 Remembrance bosses and those have no repeats among themselves. Then there are many genuine unique bosses that are just reused sometimes. I haven't counted but I believe there are about 40 unique bosses, not 12. I am excluding repeats and bosses that are just regular enemies here. Just because a boss is reused does not make the design and bossfights not unique.

[@syugyeh]

​@@sweeeeeeeeeeeeee Finlay is a woman but besides that the answer is no, Finlay is as strong as the other cleanrot knights who are mid-late game enemies. The bosses even have the same amount of health just more resistances. And I'm not talking about the 3 human fights in game that are repeated once or twice, those add to the game and explain where those people went. I'm talking about things like the tree spirits.

[@syugyeh]

@@sweeeeeeeeeeeeee tree spirits =/= tree avatars

[@khawk3214]

I’m a little confused on the argument. You said this wasn’t your favorite souls game. And one of the main arguments, if I’m interpreting correctly, is that the magic is gone after a couple playthroughs and you know all the game has to offer. But isn’t it that way with every game? After 3-4 playthroughs, you pretty much know what any game has to offer and where to B line to get the best items. Btw I really like your content.

[@scottbecker4367]

I think the point is that once you see everything, you realize just how empty the game actually is and how tedious it is to get from point A to point B. You'll start skipping a lot of the game. My first playthrough was 75 hours. My second was 8. My third was 5 because I didn't mess around at all like I did in the second playthrough since there was nothing else to do. At that point I just wanted the platinum trophy.

[@cariad123]

@@scottbecker4367 that's literally every game with optional quests/areas though.

[@scottbecker4367]

@@cariad123 cutting down a playthrough by 15x shouldn't happen though.

[@HoneyDoll894]

@@scottbecker4367 for me its definitely that. on my second character i didn't want to go and actually do a lot of the stuff just because its such a long grind to go do. like its way to easy to skip areas, and the map is way too big to actually want to do most of it. like ds3 i might skip some areas like demon ruins sometimes, but i dont mind at all running the game since it only takes around 6-10h to beat, while this game took 80h to beat the first time, 50 hours the second and i can't really see my completion time going below 30 hours for one playthrough

[@Oli-cc3eh]

@@scottbecker4367 How did you manage to see everything in 75 hours? Did you do every quest and fully explore every location and fight every boss or did you just look up guides and get your first experience ruined. The fact you had to force yourself to finish a 70+ hour game in 6 hours just for the platinum sounds like this just isn’t the game for you lol.

[@dudeman9-11]

The reason they left so much lore out is so that the community could fill in the blanks and make tell the story the way they want

[@haggus71]

This is what the best writers do. They give general descriptions, but leave it to the reader to fill in the blanks, using their imagination. I think part of the problem is, people today are so used to being fed every little detail, they can't handle it when they actually have to use some imagination.

[@chadzard4]

@@haggus71 No it's not. It was either lazy or rushed writing come on lol. It's not the audiences job to fill in the blanks or "make" the story, it's the writers JOB to flesh that out for them. You are literally telling the audience to do the writer's job for him/her that's ridiculous. Imagine in school if you only solved half the problems on an assignment and told the teacher they don't need to be fed every detail and to use their imagination for the empty answers when they asked you about it. I love this game but the mental gymnastics some of you do to defend it's "plot" is insane.

[@castlesbard1547]

@@haggus71 "There was a man." Hand over my awards. Now.

[@Hallowmas]

@@chadzard4 you ever played a dark souls game? I'm not calling you stupid or anything. Its just that Dark souls lore is told through exploraration and reading every little detail. A decent amount of the lore is you trying to connect the dots. A lot of it speculation. It's up to you to find out what the story is about. Which I personally like alot about dark souls. I dont thinks its lazy. Its just like the gameplay, it doesnt hold you hand, its says figure it out.

[@greenfrogbad]

@@chadzard4 halfwit needs everything spelled out for him lol

[@crazynero7791]

I really hope for a DLC too. One thing the bothers me in Elden ring more than in any other souls game is that in NG+ nothing changes except the difficulty. In previous games NG+ was basicly a speedrun through the game cause you already have your gear and stuff. In Elden ring your 1st playthrough is all about exploring and discovering secrets. On a new character its still a journey to get everything you need. But in NG+ there are SOO many areas you can skip cause there's just no reason to go for. In dark souls, bloodborne etc. This wasnt so bad cause the games weren't so big. But in ER it feels a bit meh skipping 80% of the map. In Ds2 they added new enemy's in NG+ In DS3 you need to be at least NG+2 to get the max. versions of all rings. I kinda wished they did that for Elden ring, like putting new enemy's in certain areas or hide uprgraded weapons or some interesting stuff. Is it just me or does someone else feels like that

[@Insp.CountMortisWinshipKlaw]

And the PVP is utter garbage. Worst of the series

[@Canibalteaspoon159]

I always come back to the idea that the game has no need to make the 2nd, 3rd and 4th playthroughs as compelling as the first. None of the souls games do. Its an RPG, there will be plenty of storylines or elements you dont experience in your first playthrough that will make each subsequent playthrough slightly different. I think Dark Souls fans get themselves locked into a gameplay loop of doing several new game + runs of each new From Soft game and thats fine if thats what you like. You clearly enjoyed it enough the first time to want to play it again, so it cant be that much of a problem. Also I think its funny, I saw needing to play DS3 3 times as an absolute negetive for the game. It was fun the first time, but there are other games I want to play. Maybe From Soft realised with a larger audience there would be less interest in constantly replaying the game.

[@Necromancer4267]

That my map isn't deleted and there are no new items in new locations immediately ruined NG+ for me. I stopped like 20 minutes in. Lost literally all of my excitement for another playthrough.

[@warcoder]

There wasn't any new things in ds1 and the rings in ds3 aren't worth it, their replay value is in trying new weapons and builds or rush through the bosses. On the other hand, ds2 did it great adding many new things (but I hate the red drakekeeper in front of Drangleic, he ruined my day many times) and I wish they would've keep that feature. Now, in the case of Elden Ring, I feel like it's too much to ask extra content for ng+ cycles from a game that has over 100 hours of content in the first playthrough. I sure that no one in fromsoft thought that the players would immediately replay such a long game and that's why they made it possible to get almost all items in the first playthrough. I really can't get why this is an issue for Elden Ring and not for other games. I can't imagine anyone immediately replaying a full playthrough of Skyrim, Zelda BoW, Red Dead Redemption, Fallout 3 or any open world game or rpg with the same amount of content and not getting tired.

[@Insp.CountMortisWinshipKlaw]

@@Canibalteaspoon159 All souls games have a reply value because you can never get the full experience with one playthrough. You will always miss areas and NPC questlines.

[@gammarayrjs]

i feel like complaining about a game for having content, especially when you can do literally whatever content you want and leave the rest comfortably, is a weird privilege LOL i also think if people think they understand the older games that well when we've never been given more than a couple actual answers you're relying too much on your ego. I too have head canons based on my playthroughs mixed with musings of random internet content creators, but that's my answer not THEE CONFIRMED answer. I don't think any of us know what dark souls 1 was completely about, and Elden Ring is just all of their old games rewritten together, better

[@gammarayrjs]

i'm at the whale-tail end of my NG+7 playthrough, I finished the game before guides were made, and I had my conclusions on the story for myself when the game came out. I don't know if I'm right, but I'm never going to complain about the amount of content because there's enough side content that is very well made and the main story is thought provoking. The NPC's are more than quest givers, they have intentions and personal stances. It seems they're often as misdirected as you. This is a master rework of Dark Souls 1's story and NPC's. I love it, I don't care that the item dungeons are largely just the same thing over and over, because it doesn't need to be anything more than that. It'd be cool if it was sure, but then you'd still complain about content amount. So like, what could you want. You DON'T want three games in one? That's insane, I got so much value out of 60 dollars with this game and I barely even launch it anymore. Also yeah the 90 something% drop off in playerbase is a little sad but also expected, playerbases for games always do that and the popularity of elden ring to begin with was unexpected on all accounts. You can find the point where half of all game owners dropped off from every fromsoft game thanks to console and steam achievements, this is a testament to who is actually interested and capable in the games. You can see where people dropped off 30 minutes in with no accomplishments, this is a statement on an audience not targetted. You can see the few people who did everything without cheats at a good pace, and you can see people that unlocked everything through mods specifically to make content on youtube. Most everyone was accommodated in this game, you just can't make everyone have a good time. Or appreciate a wealth of content, it seems. Believe it or not, I'm done white dude essaying you now enjoy your monday people

[@Fargren]

It's built for one playthrough. Honestly, that's enough for me. It's fine for it to be a game and not a lifestyle.

[@TheNigerianNerd1991]

Well said

[@LyricSnowe]

💯

[@ryankelly3743]

This game has the potential to be the best game, or at least their best series. I think it depends on DLC and sequential releases under the Elden Ring title.

[@luciferthedoberman8991]

There will not be an Elden Ring 2. I will bet my farm on it.

[@v1ncevietnam276]

@@luciferthedoberman8991 bet , I’ll put down $1000 on it

[@luciferthedoberman8991]

@@v1ncevietnam276 I won't take your money. Miyazaki hates making sequels.

[@v1ncevietnam276]

@@luciferthedoberman8991 lol

[@luciferthedoberman8991]

@@v1ncevietnam276 He might make a sequel, but it will be under a different name.

[@OfficialChrissums]

I dont get the idea that Elden Ring isnt explicit enough with its lore. I think people forget just how much of the other games lore was worked out by fans rather than told to you in game explicitly. Years of watching Ashen Hollow and Vaati etc has turned everyone into experts but the lore had to be worked out very very gradually. Elden Ring exposits way more than any other souls game imo. We know all the big players, their motives, their goals, the sources of their power, who fought who and when, the results of those battles etc. In DS1 we had zero idea what Nitos origins, powers, and motives actually were. Death as a concept was never explored. In elden ring by contrast we know a ton about Godwynn, why he is corrupted, how he came to be that way, who he was connected to, his previous battles and victories etc. I know thats just one example but why dont we compare Rannis quest to Yuria of Londor from ds3 and the hollow lord ending. Ranni explains far far more about her goals, how she aims to achieve them, and what is needed. We need to kill her two fingers using a blade from the old city, we need to get the stars moving again so her destiny is unteathered, we need to kill the baleful shadow so she can be free to do what she needs to etc. to become lord of hollows we need to marry someone for some reason? and collect some curse things. Thats pretty much all.

[@PlummSojuuuu]

Tbh, I think that with how MANY videos there are on the lore and data mining, it’s hard to make something have so much lore it can continue for so long that interest peters out. Plus, we know there’s going to be DLC, so there’s always the potential for lore to expand and be explained through that. I think it’s kind of an interesting move with the open ended was of it since it makes it feel like our tarnished can bend the lore to each new journey

[@dragonlordplacidusax9413]

I think they should have given more content for the lore & definitely longer interactions and dialogues for Npcs . For Such a big world it's too... empty of people

[@Insp.CountMortisWinshipKlaw]

Its a huge bore fest after 20 hours

[@Pikachu-qr4yb]

I love ER but it indeed is a very lonely game

[@Necromancer4267]

Not only is it empty, but the very few actual NPCs we get are just that, NPCs. They have almost no agency or motivation, their logic is nowhere to be seen (why are guards attacking me after I murdered the entire horde assaulting their castle?), and their place in this world is completely dropped in. The only thing separating this game from something in the N64 era is graphics.

[@GoulaLegamer]

@@Necromancer4267 if u think npcs are just npcs u didn’t really dive deep into their motivation but every character in this world have a purpose

[@Necromancer4267]

@@GoulaLegamer Uh huh. And their purpose is to never interact with anything, never follow any logical progression, never accomplish anything, never exist outside of your field of vision...

[@davidanderson9967]

It was the same way with dark souls. Kinda. The fact that hawkshaw made videos of dark souls lore 10+ years later there will either be a break through or a rediscovery of something more. Like we could get a whole Revelation of godwyn and run with it for hours. I think what happened is there weren't a ton of people online putting dark souls together publicly. But now there's so many channels throwing out theories or actual lore. It turned into a race instead of actual passion

[@JustAFatherlyNerd]

I'm on ng+6 and I forgot about that castle never did it so I gotta go back to do it. Too many lore channels and guides are the problem people looking things up instead of discovering it themselves.

[@Ziggerath]

Im certain you just hit you're cieling on discovering and putting together the pieces. Don't gotta point at the game just because of that. Someone will probably come along and be able to put it together in a way you couldn't. Hawkshaw comes to mind when it comes to figuring out lore, long after everyone thought there was nothing left in DS1. I really think you're becoming jaded from burnout.

[@Carl-vx9ws]

I’m new to this style of game and my skills are not very good, so this has forced me to slow down, research more, level up, pick my battles, and explore with caution. I intentionally took my time, rather than finishing it as quickly as possible. I enjoyed the size of the game, and multiple ending options. Am I over leveled? No doubt, but play your game however you chose and have fun, or what’s the point? You can please some of the people some of the time, but you can’t please everyone all of the time. I would like expanded cooperative multiplayer, but I realize I’m probably in the minority. Thanks for your content. ✌🏼

[@chadzard4]

I love ER but people gotta start being objective when looking at it's plot and storytelling. It isn't fleshed out at all. There is almost no character development or tension. It's not the audiences job to fill in the blanks and anyone who thinks it is is just making excuses for lazy writing.

[@Nautiliam]

1 playthrough in Elden Ring took me 100-120h. I played Dark Souls 3 for 160h. But I did so many playthroughs in Dark Souls 3 with very specialized builds. Like I would go "Hmm, I'd like to try this weapon", I would make a build around that weapon and do the whole run with it. Then I'd star over with another one and so on. In my first (and only) playthrough of Elden Ring, I did 4 different builds. I started Samouraï with the uchigatana, then I discovered I liked the claws and I switched to it. Then I figured I'd like to try that fancy magic, went to Rennala and respeced to a Mage build. Then I respeced again to try a Paladin build. I played around 30h hours with each build. The average length of a DS III run I'd say. I went in ER NG+ and wanted to try a faith only build centered heavily on the Flame of Frenzy to get the Lord of Chaos ending. I got up to Godrick, skipping much of Stormveil by rushing through the balistas of the main gate. And I realized that I don't want to spend 100 more hours for one Elden Ring run. And I felt if I just skipped the optional stuff, I would be underleveled one I reach the end. So yeah, Elden Ring is too big to be replayable imo.

[@AndrewThePoet]

I will have to extremely disagree with this video but I respect your opinion but one thing I cannot stand is Elden Ring's lore being dry; it is technically the best in the series interms of how they mastered the lore in it, and so, it makes sense for FS to step up their game for lore. A test of our experience from the series as it is the ultimate farewell or the ultimate exam for our understanding and how we read the history of the Lands Between from past games. I love it, and I do think it has the best writing and story telling with its environment in the series... in my opinion at least but once more, I respect your opinion. Mentioning not, we didn't understand the lore of Bloodborne as well completely for months from what I've heard, and so, the same goes for Elden Ring, we need to be patient until we get all the lore together, as it references and builds upon real world mythology and references.

[@chadzard4]

I love ER but the writing and story telling are shit. Not nearly enough tension, not nearly enough character development, and not fleshed out enough. Stop being biased and start being objective.

[@AndrewThePoet]

@@chadzard4 The word Bias and objective aren't magic words for you to nullify my opinion. Say that to the Soulsborne series then and the millions of people whom enjoyed the game and lore.

[@br5073]

@@AndrewThePoet The lore is a mixed bag unliked ds1 which anyone can understand.

[@AndrewThePoet]

@@br5073 Again, your opinion, however, it is no mixed bag as you suggest, rather, you say that out of frustration which's understandable, but there isn't any neccesatiy to beat the game for it; much like past games, it takes time to piece the puzzle together, especially Bloodborne, and now take that to a huge scale, it shall take more than a year to do so, but it is possible. Now that is my last comment here, I justified my position and no need to say more about mine position as I quite have been bored justifying it, so take it what you will... have a great day and mayst thine heart be in ease.

[@elleofmusic]

Miyazaki has actually said that he writes the full lore and then intentionally takes out huge chunks and (I don't recall if he said this was also part of his actual process or if it just keeps happening) changes some pretty major things well into development (like how in Bloodborne we were supposed to initially be friends with Laurence and witness firsthand a lot of the major events that we only see the aftermath of, condensing our experience to a single night while stretching out the timeline across several generations) because when Miyazaki was a kid, he'd try to read books in english when his grasp of the language was still pretty rough, forcing him to guess and make things up to fill in all the gaps. Instead of just being frustrating, he grew up feeling like it made the experience of reading those stories even more interesting and enriching, so he replicates this in his own stories. That's a big factor in why his games have such captivating and addicting lore. That said, it wouldn't surprise me if Elden Ring is a bit of an outlier, and does in fact have a lot of rough edges and unintended gaps, just on account of the sheer scope of it and how they clearly had more ambition than they could keep up with in the timeframe they had. As others have said tho, I think a key factor a lot of lore enthusiasts have kind of understandably forgotten as we had our plates overflowing with in-game lore, is how much Miyazaki loves to reference things from the real world, and I hear GRRM is much the same. Certainly there's the Berserk references, but there's also a lot of world mythology references, Ghibli references, alchemy references, and hell, the Crystalians are designed to look like the golems from a really old black and white film, hinting that the creator of the Crystalians is likely the "golem crafter" mentioned in the crystal dart item, which affects the imps, Burial Watchdogs, and Golems. What does that mean? Perhaps the real-world lore of golems could answer that! It's this kind of trail-of-breadcrumbs/rabbithole style of dropping in clues that encompasses Elden Ring's entire… everything, really. If you only look at what exists within the boundaries of the game, you'll only keep running into dead-ends.

[@TSpoon823]

As others are pointing out, I think multiple play-throughs will always be a problem with open world games like this. The mystery is gone after the first few times through it. Most of us binged on this game for months because of just how great it is. Eventually it gets stale. So, we should maybe step away from the main game for a bit and come back in a few months. But you're right, that has to be difficult for a content creator like yourself. Regarding the size, I definitely think there's unfinished stuff in the Mountain Tops, but if you just breeze through that area instead of thinking you have to explore as if it was Limgrave or Liurnia, it's not that big of a deal. The last third of the game is a boss rush. It's not meant to be played the same as the rest of the game in my opinion, so I just ignore the giant ice lake, ride up the mountain, kill the giant, and move on to Farum Azula (which is incredible). Now, I haven't played another Fromsoft game, but from what I've watched and understand, this game actually seems to fall right in line with the lore of most other From games, especially the DS series. It seems like becoming Elden Lord would be great and desirable, right?! But by the time you get to the throne, what is left? The Capital is in ashes. Almost everyone you've come across is dead or suffering. In a sense, the Lands Between are a blank, but cracked canvas. If you want to light it on fire, you can do that. If you want to leave it all behind to allow those who remain to figure it out for themselves now, you can do that too. Or, you can sit on the throne and ask yourself, "What am I the Lord OF now?" But all of that needs to be discovered and decided on by you the player. I don't like the execution of the endings, but I think the message is there, details aside.

[@mikedee7163]

Had a game like elden ring been released in the 90's It would've taken people 10 years to figure out all its secrets Between dumb twitch streamers and KZbin video game content makers the secrets are exposed within weeks or months Back in the early 90's of you figured out a fatality for a mortal kombat player you didn't tell anyone Unless they'd trade another characters for it If you pulled off a fatality no one knew in front of all your friends you were a legend Same with any other game Now anyone can just look it up in 2 min That's part of the problem with great games like elden ring There's too many people covering its content and little is left to the imagination or to discover on your own Unless you deliberately avoid all videos on it

[@apoorvbavariya2042]

Exactly, KZbin is filled with speed runners within 2-3 weeks of release and all the fun will gone if you just watch one of them then you go to game and just play the way you know from speedruns and miss out all the fun of exploration, and then there is too many area to explore which will player to go through walkthrough to find which one is interesting, which will spoil the fun again.

[@SpottedHares]

You missed the bigger issue, soft it’s self. While everyone is to buddy congratulating them selves they’ve all missed that soft design has been stagnant since darksouls 2. You don’t need to think or try that hard to know exactly how soft is going to try force you to loose and bloat out the playtime. You really need to complete trim your brain off for soft design to work any more.

[@chrisburke3685]

So is the main problem here that the game loses replay value after the 3rd or 4th run? Because most games don't have replayability after the 1st.

[@scottbecker4367]

This game doesn't have replay value after the first.

[@Masterty66]

If you want to rune farm to upgrade weapons or level or whatever, you can access Bestial sanctum very early. The little guys outside there drop like 1k runes per kill and aren't very difficult to kill. They do hit hard but stagger easy. And now with the latest patch you can more easily unlock Moghwyn Palace early which features the greatest rune farm in the game (the cliffside one with all the Albanaurics which drop like 2k per kill)

[@ryangattorna9116]

Love the video and your points. Love all your videos, great coverage of the material. However, I love exploring so I am in the "I want it bigger camp." The art style is so unique that I would love to see what else they could make.

[@harrigan4162]

Honestly I think the problem is that a lot of the lore is too concrete compared to other souls games. Most of the lore theories center around Radagon/ Marika or the night of black knives, because a lot of the big interesting chunks of plot only have a few possible routes for theories. Dark Souls and Bloodborne, on the other hand, are so vague and have endless possibilities for speculation that people are more interested in those plots

[@Tetsuo_88]

I’m still trying to understand how Hyetta managed to get to the three fingers safely when i died a lot just trying to reach Mohg.

[@tombadil64]

The first playthrough can't be beat. It wasn't made to be replayed in the same way that DS1 of DS3 gets replayed. I've replayed the game around 8 times on NG. I had wayyyyy more fun that way than playing on new files. That way, you don't have to go places you don't want to.

[@handgun559]

I still feel like the DLC has never been the thing that answers all the confusing parts of the main story. For example, DS1. Prior to the DLC we understood the age of ancients, Sieths betrayal, how Gwyn won with lighting specifically, about the fading of the flame, the kindling of said flame, the outcome of that kindling, bad our purpose. And if you go further to meet the other snake dude, you learn about the age of dark and how Gwyn unnaturally perpetuated a cursed age of pain and suffering. The DLC expands on the abyss and Artorius. Two things that aren't key to understanding the main story. But wtf do we know about Merika, her rise to power, her wars, why she shattered the Elden Ring, the immediate results, and when all this happened I'm general. All things we understood prior to DLC. Honestly, this wouldn't be expanded on until the Ringed City. I honestly think the same for Bloodborne. We understand what the Great Ones are, basically. We understand what caused the beast curse, and the timeline of Yarnams fall (haven't had to spell that name in a while). The DLC expands on some of the earliest curses, but the curse of the Fishing Hamlet isn't connected to the curse of the beats blood. It's just another instance of Humans fucking with gods. It doesn't explain the key story, just adds more context. Dlc shouldn't and hasn't been the linchpin of the stories comprehension.

[@EOP02]

No the game isn't too big. The game community snatched it up, pinned it to a table, dissected it down to minutiae and now we're standing in all this slippery filth trying to make more sense of it than what's literally at our fingertips. We rushed thru, want more and speculation will be rampant until DLC drops then rinse repeat till out interest finally drains down the sluice. btw.. who doesn't like open world games, ffs?

[@SpottedHares]

We didn’t rush though, we played it like we knew the small handful of cheep trick and dirty tactics soft has been using for a decade, soft though just adding one extra chore to that list would cause the players to become idiots. Players have evolved, soft has stagnated.

[@frankcipolone6967]

I disagree, Soulsborne has always had the same feeling. I love these games, but after the first run it’s kind of empty with out a personal objective outside of the main story. Think about DS1 suicide runs to get high level items early. I personally think this one allows for more role playing. I am excited for what the modding community can do with this sandbox now that it’s open.

[@feirinn]

I think everyone’s being hyper critical about the lore and certain game aspects because we are so used to soulsborne games and how their stories are played out etc. Elden Ring is a fantastic GAME, without a doubt, but it doesn’t feel like a soulsborne game. And, I don’t think it was necessarily meant to. I am anxious for DLC possibilities though for lore, for more new vistas/areas, hopefully fun (and less repeated) bosses

[@scottbecker4367]

People are critical of game aspects because they're poorly executed, especially in the last third of the game.

[@eldenringpvpenthusiast1710]

This game is big but there's alot of shortcuts, I have 10 slots with 6 of em past radagon and my main on ng7. Tbf took me much longer to do on ds3, like a whole year. I'm done progression wise on ER untill DLC comes out. And a big difference is dark souls left alot out for roleplaying and focused on level design and individual areas lore befor connecting it all with time convolution. This game is more information overload, but I believe there is a timeline to be deciphered.

[@treesuschrist1782]

I feel like saying "the game is too big" isent really getting to the issue. As you pointed out, your a content creator for the game, so in a way your forced to keep playing it. But for your average player, the current size of the game isent really an issue. For most, they do as you pointed out, play through once, do a majority of the content, drop it, maybe come play DLC when it drops. They dont go through and make 15 characters. They dont do multiple playthroughs. The size and scope of the game is only really problematic for the hardcore players. Which just like in almost every situation, are the minority of players. Outside of those groups of hardcore players the size is overall a positive aspect. A good, well fleshed out and fun open world for people to sink 200+hrs in. You get alot of game for your money, and its damn good. Every game is going to be more full of flaws the more time you spend playing it. Its just kinda the nature of gaming.

[@SpottedHares]

It not even really that, theirs only about 70 hours of stuff to do and the bulk of it 90%+ is the same copy and paste formula that people claim to hate.

[@holtrain81]

I think of Elden Ring lore being a microcosm of our realities lore...both have alot of information and both are vague and cant be pinned down

[@SageTigerStar]

watched the stream this was a part of, but I did wanna add to the topic: As much as I really enjoy this game and have a great time jumping in...I can't play as much as I want because I'm doing a 2-player run with a friend who isn't always around, and this problem you talk about here with it being so big that i dont really want to jump in on a 3rd run because it takes a lot to do even basic stuff in the game. Sure it feels epic and huge and amazing the first few times, and im keeping it interesting on NG+ by playing with a friend who also finished his first playthrough, but doing a 3rd run on my own at the same time would just feel overwhelming

[@princeofcats8916]

I think the replay ability comes specifically from NG+. Starting a brand new character at level 1 would almost be twice as difficult because you know where to go, where everything is, and how to go about things. My first playthrough I wandered about like I was completely blind. I went to Altus through the mines before stepping more than 10 feet in Caelid. Part of that first run is exploring and due to that lengthy exploration, leveling up and gathering items. NG+, you have the stuff. Or you know where to go to get stuff you missed. The replay factor is purely to play through again with a completely different build, and get a different ending. That’s it. Which is still super fun for me. I can see it becoming exhaustive eventually, though.

[@Budd631]

Pretty much. And most of the game is a total “skip” since you don’t need to go anywhere and already have all the upgrades.

[@samael4550]

This is my first FromSoft title, and it’s my favorite game of all time, by far. I agree with a lot of your criticisms tho. The final third of the game seems rushed and unfinished imo. Idk if I’m the only one, but I HATE everything to do with the Mountaintops of the Giants. It’s way too large of a region for no reason, and it’s not even fun to explore. It seems like they made it just to be tedious, which is annoying. I understand it’s SUPPOSED to be a little harder to navigate, but the tedium of not knowing the routes and having to spend 30 mins trying to find out how to get where you want, it’s just annoying. As for the smithing stones thing, I don’t have a problem with it because every single one can be bought from the Twin Husks after giving them the right bell bearings. Same with somber, AND ghost/grave glovewort

[@ihatehandleupdate]

But most of the bell bearings are much later in the game than when you actually need them. Like if you have a weapon that needs 5-6 normal sombers, you are around Liurnia or Leyndell but the bell for it is in the Mountaintops

[@lahunica2726]

Mountaintops ok but I am failing to see how Farum Azula is rushed, it's easily one of the best levels of the game and of From Software levels.

[@jyanbei]

@@lahunica2726 mountain tops is the worst place besides haligtree. I personally find farum azula ok but it feels like an actual video game level as opposed to anything to explore. Actually all 3 places are pretty meh because in a game about exploring and finding out the secrets of everything these are just enemy dump areas. No real lore, not many npc’s and definitely no side quests. Not to mention the enemies in the 3 areas just have max hp and atk multipliers. All that to fight a boss(es) who will give you a very minut lore line or 2 just for you to have to go back to a previous area to connect the pieces.

[@samael4550]

@@lahunica2726 i specifically didn’t reference farum azula. It’s the only part of the endgame I enjoy, haligtree is AIDS

[@AmeiWasHere]

The game has been out for 6 months, not counting those who had early access. You're bound to run into dry spells from time to time until more content is pumped out from the developers. Plus isn't it the nature of most Fromsoft games to kinda leave you hanging when it comes to the lore in some aspects?

[@547ws45]

Every open world game since Morrowind is like this. You only get one "discovery" playthrough, and not even that if you read spoilers. Short of memory loss, you can't get that experience twice in the same game. Maybe if you play Elden Ring without spoilers and decide *not* to explore everything, you might be able to go through it twice and find new things, but seems like most people don't do that because we instinctively want to know everything. If you want a new story, you have to pick up a new book. It might not be as good, but it'll be new.

[@Ticolandscaping]

I agree. First play through is amazing. Unfortunately you could only do that once. But it will forever hold a place in my heart

[@knuckleheadwestwind3585]

I don’t fully understand why people have problems with the lore other then expectations and perspective. Expectations: Elden Ring had the most written lore than any other game, even more then dark souls 1 and 2 put together (ds3 might push the whole trilogy over the top). We praise bloodbornes lord at every opportunity despite a huge lack of item descriptions and several huge plot holes (seriously the moon presence and the nightmare realms don’t have written lore at all, and it’s all just theory crafting from the community). Elden Ring has more lore and fewer massive holes than other games, there are still incomplete portions of the lore. However the dark sign, the entire focal point of Dark Souls wasn’t explained until the ringed city DLC, 6 years after the series origin. People didn’t get mad then that the story was VERY incomplete because the mystery is a part of it, and it gave the series and it’s dlcs room to grow. If Elden Ring already has planned DLC, than why would they leave the story with no room to grow? Get over the fact that it is incomplete. Also perspective. We look back at the older games with rose tinted glasses, because we love them. But an incomplete story filled with speculation and little concrete fact has been the norm. We still no nothing about grave lord Nito or his motivations, his life has been mostly determined by the community. It isn’t actually explained why the chaos flame was written in the first place in game, the community just decided she was trying to rekindle the flame. People praised this in dark souls, but only just now hate it in Elden Ring because I think we just forgot over time what these games are really like from a story perspective. There is also the fact that dark souls lord isn’t really that focused, the lands outside the game worlds have no development, there are red herrings like great trees that go nowhere, characters whose lore accomplishes nothing, characters without written lore, retcons to the lore and so much more that dilutes the story and makes it confusing. Once again people praised how it made the world feel bigger outside the main story, but now hate it in Elden ring despite the red herrings being more realized then before. Also yes, so much of KZbin Elden ring content is wild speculation, but that isn’t the fault of the developers or the lack of lore, people are still reading the item descriptions and actually developing what the written story means, people on KZbin just dove straight into speculation because that’s what people like to watch. I don’t fully understand why people are so hard on Elden Ring and so easy on dark souls, despite dark souls lore having maybe more problems then Elden ring, I guess people just wanted written lore the size of all the other 6 games, entirely completed arcs, all the answers to the games big questions, and no room for speculation on everything before the first dlc even comes out…

[@aryandey3012]

Story is straightforward if you don't dwell much in the lore but it gets complex and hard as you discover and try understand the lore.

[@weedniac]

After months and hours of exciting gameplay, what I miss is, at the end of a catacomb or mine, a character dialogue script or something other than slamming into everything. The Lore is rich and I think that so much focus on combat distorts it

[@clevey]

There is a third way to access the Altus Plateau. You can die to the Virgin at the bottom of the academy of Raya Lucaria and you get transported to Mt. Gelmir

[@IksRealm]

what makes it so good is that it's so big, nowadays the games are so short that it's not even worth playing but it's been years since I had fun playing a game And elden ring made me feel good playing again

[@sl0th259]

honestly i feel elden ring doesnt benefit from being as open ended as it is. The interconnectedness of dark souls has pretty much faded intto the background besides certain legacy dungeons. The worlds geography is beautiful, but there arent many meaningful or fun overworld things to even do. The game feels so flat until you reach the next legcay dungeon, i dunno how to put it

[@HombreQuemado]

The open world, while aesthetically beautiful, feels like filler content as opposed to the real meat of the game. That being the legacy dungeons and remembrance bosses. On your first playthrough you don't really notice or care because it's a huge new world to explore. On any subsequent playthrough the illusion fades away and your realize that the open world is kinda empty and devoid of anything meaningful.

[@robnewhouse5995]

I like to imagine what it would be like with just the most dense areas - essentially the legacy dungeons, the capital, shunning grounds, the eternal cities, rivers and deeproot, lake of rot, all woven together. I'd vastly prefer to go through some convoluted and dangerous maze of tunnels, elevators and waterfall coffins than ride in a straight line to each destination completely unimpeded

[@sl0th259]

@@robnewhouse5995 i feel exactly the same way. Elden ring may technically not be linear, but there is little to no engaging with its world meaningfully. It also feels like the environmental storytelling has pretty much all gone away, and there feels like less storytelling in general

[@robnewhouse5995]

@@sl0th259 interesting, I think we're on the same page with the gameplay, but I don't agree that the environmental storytelling has gone away, it's just that the threads connecting the various plots are thin compared to how much back story there is - I feel like we know more about Leonard than some key players in the backstory. Plus misleading dark souls references for no reason, looking at you Castle Morne. My most positive take on the lore is that instead of the tight and thematically driven dark souls cycle, it presents us with a huge world full of different problems, figures, divine influences, corruption, and a means to literally rewrite the rules of existence via the elden ring, and asks you to pick from 6 options to fix a fractured world. I feel like they could have got 2 or 3 great linear-ish games out of the amount of material and I'd replay them a lot more!

[@robnewhouse5995]

​@@HombreQuemado yep I wish I had the foresight to just do less in my first playthrough, but the initial discovery just kept pulling me through, it was incredible at the time so I couldn't resist

[@victoriousf.i.g.3311]

To be fair, only about half of people who purchase a souls game even finish it (according to trophy data), so you're already looking at around 50% of the player base dropping off without even seeing the end credits. Replayability is definitely offered but, even in a smaller game like DS3, you see that sharp drop off. The only people playing into NG+ and onward are the people who are A) Enthralled by the world/story/gameplay and can't stop AND B) Feel like it's worth investing time into something they've already seen. Like for me, the Witcher 3 took me 120 hours to beat on my first playthrough. I will never touch that game again because, as good as it is, it just didn't hook me personally. I think if you're feeling like playing the game through again isn't worth it, you're absolutely right! It's just not hooked you and you don't want to spend (or waste, as the perception might be) the time. My only disagreement is that the game isn't worth replaying BECAUSE it's much bigger than previous titles. Community drop off in Souls games has always been sharp and it's always been like 5-10% of people still playing on a regular basis past NG.

[@Dualplains-cx4nr]

Honestly i do find it a hassle to even get the smithing stone bell bearings so i dont have to farm them in mines. In my first play through i only used uniqe weapons and now going on my third play through im using just normal weapons and found it tough to get the stones even from bell bearings (doing a strength and armorless run). Its a uniqe experience and unforgettable experience the first and second time but after that it does start to get dull. I need to take long breaks from the game and then get back into it with friends

[@hugozielinski4916]

It is true that the allure of discovery and the wonder fade away after the first playthrough. However one's knowledge of the game supplemented by outside information allows for well planned playthroughs and challanges, for the player to pick and choose what they want to do. The game's appeal does not disappear after the first playthrough, it changes.

[@Douge11]

It’s stretched too thin. There’s enough content and lore, but it’s spread a bit too far across the map

[@scottbecker4367]

Yep. In other words, the game is too big.

[@ti.n1761]

Actually, i think you are right. In my first playthrough, i was like, picking in every corner of the map, and it wasnt worth it, (i often found empty big area without any interesteing item)

[@benjaminrabuzin9957]

Also I doubt anyone in the world has said “Omg I don’t wanna play anymore cause the games too big” like wtf kinda complaint is that.

[@scottbecker4367]

I did. The game became a chore about 50 hours into my 75 hour playthrough.

[@mikeg5039]

Youre 100% right. They made a super vague basic story and item descriptions based off their random scribbled notes then said “ok fuck it let vaati, smoughtown or silvermont do the rest”. As for exploring i did 120 hours and restarted a new character now im just using the fextralife map to get what i want and blast through back to where i was with a better build

[@_bstr_ct1832]

I don’t think being given the “answers” would really satisfy. In this case, the question is far more interesting than whatever answer Miyazaki could give us

[@itsofficiallypluto3670]

I like to fight both radagon and elden beast I just feel like depending on RNG either or is going to be a harder fight, I do believe we need to be netted more runes for normal enemies cuz my main thing now is just going through the game to refight my favorite bosses, I wish they would just make an arena and we can choose the boss and boss room to fight In because the boss rooms are beautiful

[@aussiehack3543]

I agree with what you said about the rune drops, I don't wanna farm runes for 2-4 minutes for one level. it's basically impossible to get a level without farming and most bosses don't really give enough either.

[@cheeky_casual]

I agree that regular enemies don't drop enough runes. Unless you go to a high level area and try to farm for them, it takes way too long to get your character to a proper level.

[@matthewtaber9635]

I've made quite a few characters, and other than my first, I always lose most interest after defeating Morgott (best boss btw,) or around the mountaintops area. I agree, base game too big, not enough wild secrets (given how much space in the world there is) or things that change between each playthrough.

[@Budd631]

From the Mountaintops onward the game was kinda meh. If the game ended at Leyndell I would’ve been happy. Repeat playthroughs I hate slogging through it.

[@evanbaxter7356]

You don't consider the large number of areas that are entirely missable to be wild secrets?

[@d.robinson6262]

Too big? Lol. People complained that DS3 wasn't big enough. I think a lot of ER players are "people with long hair" who want to cut it. "People with short hair" wish it was longer. Next soul's game will be a 3D randomly generated rougelike and players will complain that it's too random.

[@Addyboy0190]

I do agree the sense of discovery only happens once, I covered most of the caves, mines, and catacombs in my first play through although I somehow missed 3 so sense of discovery slightly restored in mg+1 and +2 but I would never return to most of them, only to the 2 with crucible knights to revenge parry all of them, I do still hunt down all of the demigods in each playthrough but I don't wander around anymore just bee line straight for the other 2 endings for the achievements

[@omidbasiri3557]

What I think is that you should be so happy that this game is so big since you get to make so many shitty videos about it and claim that it saved your life. Be greatful and don't jump on the new bandwagon of criticizing something cause others are doing it.

[@scottbecker4367]

"Don't criticize this game because I like it." These are the criticisms that people have been pointing out for months. The honeymoon phase is over, and the issues are becoming more noticeable. It's not a bad game, but it's subpar compared to their previous titles.

[@cariad123]

@@scottbecker4367 people think it's subpar or stale because they've played through multiple times, it's not the games fault some people don't have any other hobbies and can't wait for some DLC

[@scottbecker4367]

@@cariad123 I misread that initially (shouldn't respond early in the morning). I didn't play through multiple times when I felt that way. It was around 30 hours into my first playthrough that I started to feel it wasn't as good as their previous titles. By 50 hours in, it was frustratingly apparent, and by the end I was just playing to finish. That's why my other playthroughs were significantly shorter. The rest of the game wasn't really worth it.

[@toms607]

You’re right however, personally I don’t really consider Elden Ring’s size to be a flaw/significant negative attribute. I’m currently on a 4th play-through and I still absolutely love it. I think more rune rewards for optional bosses would encourage subsequent play-through exploration though. Like you and so many others, I now tend to skip huge portions of the map because the reward for effort just isn’t justifiable/sufficient given that my rune cost for levelling is around 1million now. Also, with regard to game longevity, I think DLCs will do bits and bring a large portion of the player base back. Let’s hope we get at least 3 substantial DLCs before the game is archived and development efforts are shifted to their next instalment.

[@scottbecker4367]

Skipping large parts of the map because the reward to effort level isn't justified is a map size issue. There's a lot of space filler. While all of the areas are cool to look at, they aren't always practical, and that does hurt it's overall experience, especially as you progress further. I know I stopped doing dungeons about halfway through my playthrough. I only did a handful from there.

[@toms607]

@@scottbecker4367 I respectfully disagree. If dungeons had a rune potential of a million, let’s say, during 5th game+ for example, I’d be more inclined to do them; I’d also make the effort to slay more side bosses, too - if more, or even all of them, gave 100k+ runes. I’m still receiving less than 40k on some of the bosses, I swear 😅. That’s not enough in my opinion which is why I skip them, and by extension large portions of the map, and head straight to the great/legendary/god enemies. Also, I feel like enemy scaling in subsequent play-throughs is a bit uneven with regard to rune reward and difficulty. My HP is like 2000+ and I can almost get one-popped by Limgrave side bosses, particularly during a single flury of attacks, yet I only get a tiny fraction of the amount of runes I require to level. Now don't get me wrong, I don't have an issue with the enemies getting harder, it makes it more fun/challenging, but I want to be rewarded fruitfully. Relative to this point, I believe if you’ve made the effort to venture into 3rd game+ and beyond (presumably 200hrs in), there should be significant rune reward increases which scales depending on level and play-through number. It would make achieving maximum level a less tedious endeavour. How many people who are at max level right now have attained that without adopting a tedious rune farming strategy, involving and repeating (100s if not 1000s of times might I add): jumping outside of the map using Torrent followed by 30-45 seconds of free falling and slashing🤣; or alternatively, by using the Sacred Relic Sword on the Albinaurics, near Mohgwyn’s Palace? I’d be willing to wager a lot on the majority haha. Just my thoughts - I have no proof.

[@dr_alex0422]

I have only beaten this game once on my first character after 100 hours, did 100% before going to ng+. In ng+ only went to Renala then started a new character, a faith build, speedran till i beat Radahn and then droped the game. The things that keeps me playing these games are builds and bosses and both of them take too long to reach in elden ring, Radagon and Mohg are my favorite fights and they come so much later in the game its not worth going through what i feel like is a slog just to fight them again. Meanwhile sekiro let you fight bosses again and again and in ds3 i can make my build and beat the entire game all bosses in under 20 hours while elden ring takes double or even triple that time. Like i have in my head more than 20 fun builds that i want to test against my favorite bosses but the time commitment is too much

[@DivineXPotato]

to be fair you can get to mohg within like an hour if you wanted too, just do varres questline and he will allow you to access it early.

[@dr_alex0422]

@@DivineXPotato yeah but i was talking mostly about a new character, unless miyazaki wants me to do rl1 mohg

[@mr.jimmazing8905]

my only issue with elden ring could be fixed easily. I'd just like more gravity, blood, and frost spells along with items to higher boost gravity and frost magics. As far as DLC or lore, I just want to learn more about Miquella since he is one of the most talked about demi gods in the game and maybe more lore on the 3 fingers.

[@futurepastmedia5029]

It was the best 150 hours. But I did/saw 90% of the game on my first run. Nothing beats the first time - Elder Scrolls, Dark Souls, Zelda, etc.

[@agtjake]

I would like to point out that I still love Elden Ring for what it is. I thought this was an interesting topic to talk with my community about. That doesn't just include the people in the stream, but all of you who watch as well. It's KZbin, it's my job, watch the video or don't. That's up to you.

[@tree4114]

I agree, it is so annoying to go all the way to Farum Azula for a somber 7. But it is incredibly annoying in some places. Overall fun game but I get tired of having to run from Haligtree to a place that I have no graces cause I thought is for design.

[@funnygaming2672]

I think Elden ring has more roleplaying then Dark souls and more lore !

[@goodhoonter9882]

Skyrim is still the or one of the best Elder Scrolls games for massive open world and rp game,and elden ring is more in the middle in its own type of open world, more like main story open world game but less linear but still somewhat linear

[@theblackswordsman1779]

@@tree4114 I had the same issue, my weapon was +6 and I had somber smithing stones 8 and 9 but no 7s to be found. Luckily there's one in a chest in Nokstella

[@chadzard4]

@@goodhoonter9882 Oblivion was better than Skyrim in that aspect.

[@Thehowlingbrown]

In a similar way to how zelda gave you a new world to explore after you turn time forward in ocarina or link to the past. I feel like becoming elden Lord then having a second half depending on the ending you chose to complete it.

[@saintsfearful]

You could fix the Elden Beast fight somewhat by including a side quest that allows you to ride Torrent in the boss arena. Have some Eternal City NPC (horned helm Ancestor worshipper?) send you into some closed off area in the Eternal City to obtain an item by completing a puzzle and beating a boss. You could even have the 2 Ancestor beast fights be related. If Fromsoft was really cool they would include a new ability for Torrent and more dynamic mounted combat.

[@TreLupe]

I think the story and the immersion in the story with our character is kinda lack luster if it had a dragons dogma guide it would be decent and a minimap

[@jake_]

i hope that when we get some answers through the DLCs, we do not get an experience similar to J. J. Abrams' "mystery boxes".. When you set up so many fascinating little mysteries, if you don't come up with equally satisfying answers, the fascination with the lore turns to resentment for wasting your time over it. Even worst if we don't get any answers at all.

[@TuskyBaby]

That's cute. This is your first From game, isn't it?

[@ThommyofThenn]

Collecting smithing stones was a pain in the ass for the amount of weapons you get. You can easily get the bell bearings for them behind bosses but it would be cool to get more of them in caves/in world. And I didn't have a problem with runes. I had to go buy crab so many times simply because I had way too many runes

[@strawberrygemz2020]

I feel like there's a decent chance that the first dlc would do something that would either take us to an alternate reality of the lands between or pretty much anything that would maybe reuse one of the big main areas with some changes and maybe one smaller new area. After that, I think they'd use that time to POSSIBLY, MAYBE, IF THEY WERE TO GO FOR TWO DLC IN THE FIRST PLACE, AND EVEN GO TO THIS EXTENT, maybe make one more new, large-ish, open world area. And when I say open world area, I basically mean like caelid or Altus plateau. Possibly even smaller, more like Siofra or Weeping Peninsula

[@RossAshmore]

People always forget, the DLC's are the best part of every FromSoft game. I'm convinced the same will be with Elden Ring.

[@br5073]

That only applied to bb for me honestly

[@binbows2258]

The biggest problem is not the lore, it's the lack of balancing. After 1000 hours played in Elden Ring, I can not bring myself to play it anymore. I've beaten the game over 4 times, and every time I think the same thing: "these bosses suck, the PvP sucks, the weapons are poorly balanced."

[@VI_universe]

sucks to be such a downer

[@nazek4216]

if you've put 1000 hours into a game over 6 months and no longer want to play it, I don't think that's the game's fault

[@scottbecker4367]

@@nazek4216 the issues are consistent though. Playing for 1000 hours doesn't negate the legitimate criticisms for the game.

[@itsjoel13]

What’s that?! George RR Martin not finishing a storyline?! He would never just leave us hanging like that

[@114Freesoul]

My first playthrough, I played blind, while trying to see and complete as much as possible, clearing every dungeon and cave I found, scouring every corner of the map for loot. Even then, I did miss a good chunk of stuff (quests, mainly - though that's a whole other tangent, given how broken some of them were on release). However, as I was getting toward the end of the game, I was starting to rush through it. I was getting exhausted of it - the prospect of starting up a new playthrough with a fresh build was much more appealing than having to trudge through more of the same-looking dungeons with the same enemies and same bosses only to receive some useless summon as a reward. My second playthrough of the game felt much better - I knew where to go, where to find the items I need for the build I wanted, I knew which dungeons were worth my time versus ones that were a total waste. It took half the time to finish the game, and I had a much better overall experience... by basically ignoring 75% of the open world content and just focusing on the interesting parts. So yes, I'd say that Elden Ring is too fucking big for its own good.

[@Soulofagreathero]

1 - so you can’t get the best gaming experience you’ve ever had … again right after you just had it ???? Be glad you got it once ! Lmao And for the record I got it into my third play through. It’s fun to refine my runs but I’m a Souls only type player. I don’t really play anything else. 2- get the Miner Bells so you don’t have to farm single smithing stones. Same with sombers. 3- the DLC WILL be out this year. Trust !

[@Canibalteaspoon159]

I dont think this game is too big at all. Its the nature of how they built the game. I dont think its inherently bad that you cant make endless lore videos 😄 sometimes we just get the information we get. Also I really disagree with your take on the game being tedious after a time. I have never had to go looking for a smithing stone or somber....I just explore and they give them to me naturally. I think its pretty close to perfect. Replayability is a factor but not very important to me, it just means people play for longer. But the most valuable experience in this game is the first playthrough. Happens with a lot of single player games. W3 is great, but nowhere near as incredible the second time. Because it doesnt have to be

[@kabeutelspacher]

You can just use the bell bearings for the smithing stones and just buy them with runes at the store in the round table hold

[@omnipresentl1316]

I actually enjoy the way the lore is provided and you have to actually do some thinking yourself to understand it rather than everything dropped in one cutscene. I also just figured being Elden Lord was important because you're essentially the ruler and that was enough for me since it would get most of the Soldiers that lost their minds to be reigned in.

[@brandonmerritt9001]

Imagine having the free time to get to new game +7 and then say that this game is incomplete or doesn’t satisfy you… also the first play through feeling applies to anything you’ve experienced more than once. Watch a movie twice I promise you it’s the same thing lol

[@XDarkBrotherhoodHD]

If they beat the game over 6 times, I feel like they have every right to complain… but maybe thats just me…

[@brandonmerritt9001]

@@XDarkBrotherhoodHD fair enough, the way I see it we can complain or praise anything, doesn’t matter it’s opinion based and we all have one. Just wild that it took 6 play throughs and 500+ hours to reach said conclusion.

[@ghoulishgoober3122]

It's almost like being able to say anything about the state of the game requires you to actively experience it for an extended period of time. That's the only way forming an assessment of the game in this way can be done. How can you say anything if you haven't even finished the game at all? A rhetorical question not directed towards anyone.

[@XDarkBrotherhoodHD]

@@brandonmerritt9001 to be fair im still on my first play through and am about 70% of the way through the game with over 160 hours on my belt, and lack of lore or exposition has been a problem of mine since the first 10 hours

[@brandonmerritt9001]

@@XDarkBrotherhoodHD I can completely understand and sympathize with that, in fact I’m still on my first play through as well with an incredible amount of hours in there I’m not sure what the certain number is to be honest at this moment. But I know it’s over 200, I am the kind of person who will look at every crevice just because I’m fascinated with the world they’ve crafted for us. We all experienced things differently too, hell one random input can completely make you miss a line of dialogue that is pivotal to finding characters or areas. Despite all the shortcomings and the wonderful stories that they have crafted for us, I think they will expand on it this time going about it in a different way than previous titles. The thing I remember until myself is that this is a game first and a story second, so as much as I would love to know all the deep lore facts about this, excluding an actual TV series or book series coming out I don’t think we’ll ever get all of what we want from the lore

[@taufiqislam8935]

That sounds like a you problem chief. Open world games are automatically tedious to replay. Most people will agree the first playthrough was amazing and that is what matters the most.

[@TheNigerianNerd1991]

Agreed

[@ironstar183]

It's a roleplaying game too, not just an open world one. It's big like skyrim, once you know the world u can start tailoring your next adventure. So not too big. I'm running 6 characters, yeah I did some serious early game grinding on a few of em 😅 but I'm looking at 700 hours in game and still dont have all the achievements. Its probably because I dont look stuff up a lot lol. The games combat system is incredible and the creative options with customizable combat and a plethora of outfits makes for outstanding roleplaying. Add a bunch of ambiguous and evocative item descriptions and inspiration is everywhere. Elden ring for me excels as a world where you can get lost and treat every combat encounter as a duel and challenge. The world is like a dream, surreal and inconcrete, it charms you with its tone and majesty

[@covertcomics7799]

my issues with the game is inconsistent rewards, in the beginning the game barely gives you anything good but late game it feels like they kind of just hand you op items, feel like they could have spread that out more. then theres the questlines and npcs, it doesnt really feel like questlines and legit story, moreso just us talking to npcs at different locations until they try to kill us or we find them dead. and the lore running dry is due to them not finishing it, tbh elden ring is a big game but it sucks knowing this big game was intended to be SO much bigger. i hope they continue to add the things they werent able to release when the game first launched, i'd also like more "questlines" because there are a lot of tarnished npcs that we just kill because we're told to or they let us summon them for a boss fight and we never talk or see them again

[@wakaisenshiclips7465]

I'd say the big issue is replayability. The caves are all very similar in layout and style and same goes for the small castles. The open world doesn't have many enemies apart from specific areas but enemies do not roam, I will never be exploring lakes of liurnia and randomly stumble across a dragon knight or a black knife assassin.

[@roadi1983]

if you would understand the lore, you would understand why it is like this. its part of the story.

[@wakaisenshiclips7465]

@@roadi1983 repetitive map design isn't story/lore.

[@TheSnoozeFox]

The longer I sit with this game the more I realize how unfinished it is.

[@XDarkBrotherhoodHD]

It was 2 months before release and they woke up one morning and went “oh shit” and realized they forgot to tell the lore throughout the game, so they added in lore to item descriptions instead

[@samael4550]

Which makes me kinda salty, but at the same time so excited … like if I enjoy it THIS much in it’s current state, I really can’t wait for DLC and future patches/updates.

[@JP-ob8sx]

@@XDarkBrotherhoodHD Every souls game is like this lol. They’re all the same as far as using item descriptions to tell the story.

[@XDarkBrotherhoodHD]

@@JP-ob8sx its lazy

[@radekmartinek2673]

@@XDarkBrotherhoodHD It is why people used to loved their game for. Befour shit hit a fan through youtubers like this

[@diegonei]

On my 5th character and I am still stumbling upon stuff I did not find... And I was quite thorough on runs 2 and 3 (no guides), at least so I thought. 😄

[@bekomon]

I've recently ran in the exact same issue as you. I've finished this game MONTHS ago and yet I am not even on NG+1 after 200 hundred hours. At this point I fear going through NG+ will just not be fun. I've also been super invested in the lore because it's something I like in every Fromsoft game but this one just has too many parallels, references and characters with more than 1 name and body and timelines. Its a freaking fever dream. I mean I like when there are holes and questions in the lore, but there just way too many in this one. I would like to see a DLC for this game but I also fear it leaves us with even more questions. Worse, what if they don't make a DLC at all... Hopefully a sequel but that very unlikely. But yeah, the game is actually too good for its own good. It's crazy. Great video.

[@alessandrobaggi6129]

"200 hundred hours" is 20000 hours... I think you meant simply 200 hours...

[@Necromancer4267]

People are too scared to admit that Elden Ring is just bad. The lore is nonsense (not surprising, considering GRRM) and what we actually have is basically just stolen from DS anyway, the gameplay is ass, the mechanics are basically ripped off of DS3 again, there are like 50 repeated bosses, the game doesn't give a single shit about being open world. Sorry. The game is bad. Come around to it.

[@filippogrimaldi7228]

It's not bad it's just not as good as DS3 or Sekiro (in my opinion)

[@LyricSnowe]

@@filippogrimaldi7228 I agree. Even if it was the least liked souls game, it still wouldn’t be a “bad game”. Thats just dramatic.

[@Necromancer4267]

@@LyricSnowe No, it's a bad game.

[@filippogrimaldi7228]

@@Necromancer4267 you're wrong

[@Necromancer4267]

@@filippogrimaldi7228 I don't care what you think, honestly.

[@small3687]

The game is not too big at all. The reason I say this is because every single area of the game is crafted in a unique way. It doesn't feel like it's procedurally generated. It's not filled with fetch quest garbage. I would love if it was even bigger if they could keep that feeling of uniqueness. Like you said though I don't think they could make a better open world game. It has levels that encompass everything I can think of. Fire wind ice earth levels. Underground areas super high up platforming swamp poison areas city areas and castles. Seriously I can't think of a single thing they missed.

[@dravenshadow9002]

Been playing since day 1 and am on ng+5 and haven't gotten the slightest bit bored of it. I'm mostly trying to stay in practice while I wait on the DLC.

[@jarethwilmoth2528]

my first play through i was just exploring and took the mines up to atlas plateau by chance and then only after went through with the medallion and it took a lot of time but was still fun haha