The Borderline Personality Disorder Fraud | Misdiagnosis/Stigma Controversy

[@Abundantanna1]

Covert Narcs are the most deadly… because they ARE both malicious and broken. Because a truly caring person sees the brokenness and dismisses the malice. And it’s literal poison of the most cruel kind.

[@losethisajohel3985]

I couldn't agree more!!! There's so much poison in their candy. (Metaphor)

[@keariewashburn4680]

Exactly!

[@mssueybear]

The criminal qualities of fraud embezzlement and violence it's just never ending

[@Frejborg]

We're not deadly... demonizing people with these conditions is not helpful. Our conditions are responses to incredibly painful TRAUMA.

[@reflectonthings3008]

Exactly!the first thing I saw in a guy I had been with for 3 years is that he looked like he had some kind of trauma,he was anxious,some times dissociative for a few seconds,anger that seemed to be floating right under his stoic face,but I’m some one who now that anxiety doesn’t mean bad person or weak person so I gave him the Chance even tho I was not really in to relationships that time.What I’m realizing now is that ppl kan have both,like be bad & have cptsd or ptsd.

[@1RPJacob]

Another Bait and Switch is asking to be more emotionally available and vulnerable and then use it against you.

[@kennethsilvestri5874]

That is exactly what they do and then pretend your emotions don't matter when you are more available with them to further cement their control over you.

[@straightcashhomey1261]

Totally accurate. Any time I shared my feelings, they were dismissed and I was told I was too sensitive. You cannot have feelings with these people.

[@nickybobby9317]

@@straightcashhomey1261 That’s Narcissism, not Borderline. This guy isn’t even a psychologist let alone an expert in personality disorders. Listen to Dr. Daniel Fox, an actual expert in this field.

[@barkingsheep5224]

Indeed. Hanging around a women’s group where we could talk freely, we began to realize the BPD diagnosis was looking too close to ye old hysteria. And now I’m watching actual narcissists apply the label and wear it well. This arena needs the clouds parted and some light to bring clarity.

[@tashastarling870]

.

[@Eluderatnight]

My college Psych textbook from 12 years ago put BPD at 75% amoung women.

[@socialdistancingon8333]

I find that quite interesting. When I had my very first intake to get an ARMHS worker, they had a bit of a conundrum diagnosing me back in 2009. By that time, they had said to me that they needed to figure out if it was an actual diagnosis for myself, or merely just the personality that I had been born with as a woman... Edit: It was either 2009, or 2011. Can't quite remember...

[@joincoffee9383]

@@Eluderatnight you mean 75% of all women population are BPD? or 75% of BPD are women while 25% are men?

[@uyoebyik]

@@Eluderatnight what 75% percent of women are borderline according to that book?

[@jms07739]

Victim state is so prominent. I was in a codependency group. I realized I needed to move on, almost every member was stuck, comfortable and needing to exist permanently in a victim role. Sadly, no one wanted to even try to recover and grow. Best wishes for a healthy life. Peace

[@AyeWitness]

Amen😅 ❤

[@nateo200]

I had a therapist that I truly think did not want me to get better. He had narc traits and whenever I would start to feel better he’d almost get angry

[@juliettailor1616]

​@@nateo200I have a "friend" like that, but I think the therapist might also have been thinking about his bank account in your case.

[@Fancyfree252]

I agree with what you are saying here. And I agree that “emotionally disregulated” is a great way to define it. I feel all the “personality disorders” are all just results of being traumatized. Deal with the trauma, you heal. Don’t deal with the trauma, it turns into narcissism. That’s my theory.

[@hearme4581]

I like it!

[@sagebay2803]

Ohhhh....I think I agree with you. Thanks for that!

[@winxclubstellamusa]

Empathy is the difference between traumatized people who become their abusers, or work extremely hard to never hurt anyone like they have been hurt, but at the expense of hurting themselves until they heal those patterns. Latent, and even debilitating trauma left unchecked does not turn someone into a cluster b.

[@suzannax]

Yeah, a lot of women are misdiagnosed BPD, I nearly was when I clearly had PTSD from a known traumatic event. Some doctors just want a zebra instead of the standard donkey 🤷‍♀️

[@MsPopo81]

Big time, look out for bpd books on the bookshelf in the counsellors office bc then yah know whats coming plus some patronization lol.

[@oanaalexia]

@Phil Ricketts I have to add that some doctors in this field enjoy seeing patients suffer, a few of them pick this career because they're sadists. Most of them know they're a part of a broken system.

[@plutooliver686]

Ptsd wasn't recognized and actually alot of the therapists created more trauma by sympathizing with my abusers.

[@juliettailor1616]

I know there is supposed to be a difference between the two, but bpd is a result of PTSD.

[@antiarugula]

How did u figure this out? Genuine question

[@EricKolotyluk]

Years ago, being (mis)treated for depression, I was also diagnosed with BPD, but subsequent professionals have claimed I don't have BPD. More recently, I personally identify more closely with CPTSD and Developmental Trauma Disorder (DTD), and I undestand that often people with Complex PTSD are misdiagnosed with BPD. I really found your perspetive compelling wrt trauma, so thanks for offering it. I just finished the book "The Body Keeps the Score" by Bessel van der Kolk, and found it amazingly insightful, where you are both offering fresh new insights into trauma, and past misdiagnoses.

[@joincoffee9383]

A psychologist warned some people against this book because it can be too triggering for some without professional help. Is it okay for you?

[@EricKolotyluk]

@@joincoffee9383 I did not find the book 'too' triggering, but I did find it triggering in that it allowed me to realize how I had been mistreted by previous bad diagnosis and prescribed medication that did not help, medication that compounded my trauma.

[@joincoffee9383]

@@EricKolotyluk good to know. Maybe it’s the speaking psychologist protecting their industry? Like they want everybody go through them instead of going to the book resolution without using their services? Or it could be that your case is not as severe as some of the extremely violent cases? I don’t know. But your feedback definitely makes me and lots of others feel more comfortable to read the book without paying a psychologist. Thanks for sharing.

[@joincoffee9383]

Also, does the insights from the book give you some cure? As I myself find that insight can’t reach into the muscles and the lowere brain area where our trauma is stored and imprinted.

[@EricKolotyluk]

@@joincoffee9383 I have not found a cure, but I have found that avoiding more trauma is a good start. For example, I am slowly eliminating toxic people from my life.

[@MsPunk56]

I’ve lived with a narcissist for 44 years and he tried to make me believe that I have borderline personality disorder and I bought into it. I believe I have Complex post traumatic stress disorder!

[@sitascott8446]

@Cindy Main 44 years. Wow! I think your assessment of yourself would be very likely true.

[@rainncorbin8291]

Same here. 33 years.

[@judeannethecandorchannel2153]

If mine hasn't been to ignorant to know what BPD is, I bet he would have tried to convince me I'm borderline. I also have CPTSD, btw.

[@janettrimble2950]

I now agree after listening to sam vaknin there is a lap over with passive agressive and fragile narcissam, As a fellow in recovery I can see my own fragile narcissam kicking in as I am going through my own recovery. I feel its compensatory and part of recovery, Loved this . Great content

[@oanaalexia]

You deserve to feel strong and I'm happy you found good sources to help you. Good luck on your journey.

[@janettrimble2950]

@@oanaalexia Thank you so much. Richard has put out some really great content. Its been tough in lockdown but ploughing through it

[@newpersonal3762]

@@janettrimble2950 Speaking of ploughing through it. My toilet wasn't working today for an unknown reason and I tried to fix it but eventually I had to leave and go to work. I left a note for my wife telling her it's not working and instructions how to use the plunger, call me if she needs me. How do you think she'll take it when she sees the note?

[@ElanaVital83]

@@newpersonal3762 How did it go?

[@MM-zs7rp]

I was diagnosed BPD in my early twenties after my mother pushed it HARD so me saying “that’s what makes you like you are”. In reality I now think that I have CPTSD from being emotionally dismissed and neglected and gaslighted through my ENTIRE childhood and that my mother is at least mildly narcissistic herself.

[@robertdeskoski9783]

But who diagnosed you? The clinician would have looked at all of the criteria and tried to see how many behaviours and to what degree your dysregulation manifests.

[@jacksonrelaxin3425]

Ain’t it wild how so many mental illness diagnosis seem to exonerate shitty parents and guardians from all responsibility of their actions? How bout that.

[@ZieSpiralOut]

Thank you! I’m the ptsd one and it hurt me to think it was all my own head. No, it was because I was being abused. And all I knew how to do was lash out hoping something would give because leaving this situation made me fear for my safety. And of course he’s super charming so I couldn’t get help without looking like I’m shitstarting. Seriously I feel like borderline is a term abusers created to make their victims look crazy. Classic “lock up the emotionally fragile wife” from ages past.

[@Frejborg]

You miss the part where you are also a narcissist? Codependent people are sides of the narcissist coin. Though ultimately we should probably not use the narc terms anymore either, but the terms of CPTSD or other more accurate, and more helpful terms, which do not demonize the sufferer. Just because the sufferer abuses others due to their emotional, and mental dysregulation, etc. It is maybe not neccesarily that they are wanting to do that ultimately, but as a consequence of their struggle for survival. It's collateral damage from the childhood trauma, of neglect and abuse.

[@BrookTozer]

I call my 'fragile narcissist' an 'insecure, vindictive narcissist' and even that doesn't go close to describing their toxic ways. Their insecurities drive them to attack their victims in the most viscous way they will ever experience. Pure evil! They destroy families, businesses and social groups.

[@sarshamanuel8478]

100% I had a family member do all of the above when I caught her red handed abusing a child, confronted her & didn’t fall for her crocodile tears. She then preceded to ruin the business we had built, turn other dangerous psychos against me, put my family in danger & attempted to turn family & friends against me. She even rang my friends & in laws relatives telling them I was crazy. Luckily most of them just blocked her. However she did put me & my kids in danger & destroyed over a year & ago half of work. She also turned up at my house threatening me yet told others i threatened her, however she forgets my children are witness. Where I excused her behaviour in the past thinking she was having a breakdown I now realise she is a walking breakdown. I have watched her tell me things that I know to be untrue and then I’ve realised she is not necessarily lying because she has replayed the memory in her head to suit herself and actually believes her own lies. The thing is I can’t work out what happened to her to turn her into a sick, nasty, spiteful POS when we grew up. She surrounds herself with fools so that they don’t question her grandeous fantasies & she wants me out of the way because I know the truth about her mediocre achievements & failures in life, she also forgets that children grow up & she has been nasty to other people’s children.

[@CupcakeExplosion]

“...look like th’ innocent flower, but be the serpent under’t." MacBeth. Thank you for this video. A lot of good info and it's validating to what I have long thought. 👍👍👍

[@BrianAdkinson]

The fragile narcissism concept you outline here solves every riddle I've puzzled over trying to reconcile a year of deep diving BPD with the person who motivated my study. THANK YOU.

[@OdetteKahwagi]

So now we definitely need a video on fragile narcissists please 🤯🥶 they’re so fucking draining and you can’t possibly get rid of them

[@Karlien68]

I have been studying that for 2 years now after a horrible discard. He was diagnosed as autistic....which happens often with covert introverted fragile sensitive vulnerable narcissists. It is baffling and shocking to find out this kind exists! It is the worst kind and most sneaky kind....And as a codep I wanted to save him and take care of this poor guy 🤦‍♀️ 20 years down the drain together with financial future....

[@JohnDoe-gq3tm]

@@Karlien68 This would explain why I've known "Autistics" who were the most fake selfish manipulative people I can imagine. No way did they just have Autism. If they even have Autism at all!

[@ElanaVital83]

Oh yes, please! I work work in showbiz. They're everywhere!! But most have a diagnosis of BPD to play victim behind while calling everyone they dislike (or feel jealous of) a narcissist.

[@pixinotdust4925]

@Odette Kahwagi YES. I agree with you completely. IF these findings were part of normal /usual school education, for example, I could have saved myself my "fragile catastrophe" massively.

[@ingridelknermusic]

I would also love to hear more - and not just NPD, but those with more subtle narcissism that would have been aligned with borderline. People who don't know they're narcissists or that they're playing games and living falsehoods.

[@trixiesilver4030]

I agree that the bpd imaginary has gotten out of control (& I believe it is inadvertently a litmus test for how normalized misogyny is in society). It’s ridiculously easy to massage a bpd diagnosis out of a few transdiagnostic screening questions, and there seems to be a disturbing appetite for diagnosing girls at younger & younger ages. When patients come to me with that diagnosis, we talk about trauma & I explain my resistance to label as diagnostic of inherently characterological what is essentially a failure or lack of treatment to address their underlying trauma. They may “need” the diagnosis in place to get dbt covered with their therapist, which is the only (& indirect) use I can see for it, if it helps them. Otherwise it functions as “hysteria” did in the 20th century, imo, & sets patients up for being disdained by other clinicians. And absolutely, there’s been too much attention on bpd & not enough on fragile/npd. Your proposed schema makes sense to me. I never could see that much of a distinction between the covert or fragile npd presentation & the most dysfunctional so-called bpd presentation.

[@ElanaVital83]

I work in showbiz. Lots of folks like that in my industry. Your vids help me get my head around some of the situations I constantly find myself in with many of my somewhat unstabler colleagues.

[@littlelulu4107]

My now retired doctor says that it’s diagnosed when the therapist dn truly understand the patient. He said it’s a garbage dump diagnoses.

[@RICHARDGRANNON]

Sad to say it often seems to be .

[@ElanaVital83]

Wow notice how your doc didn't have the nerve to fess up until after retirement. Must be a battle field working in that industry.

[@littlelulu4107]

@@ElanaVital83 that’s not how it went down. We were just having a conversation about BPD and this was his opinion. That’s all. Nothing nefarious

[@ElanaVital83]

@@littlelulu4107 I didn't mean it was nefarious. I meant the industry is tough to work in. If he said that while he was still practicing, he'd probably be tarred and feathered by his colleagues. You'll have to excuse my lexicon. I talk like I'm stuck in a 1940s noir film 😅

[@littlelulu4107]

@@ElanaVital83 gotcha. He was a very good doctor who was a pioneer of different therapies that were once considered on the fringe. He still practices even in his 80’s

[@michaela7820]

Actually studying psychology and I already feel so discouraged by the thick layer of bullshit and strong focus on pretending to be science..

[@R_L_A_G]

If you think this is bad, try reading the r/atheism forum where they think they're the equivalent of a professional psychologist.

[@astrologyfunwithdevidiva2752]

Leave university if you want to understand psychology of the mind

[@michaela7820]

@@astrologyfunwithdevidiva2752 the issue is you have to have academic degree to work in the field of psychology plus specialize in something (at least in my country)

[@astrologyfunwithdevidiva2752]

@@michaela7820 ditch the structure and learn astrology - become a coach

[@ta_nimal2023]

Economics is similar. It is what it is.

[@keariewashburn4680]

Yes, ditch the BPD. Extreme trauma / PTSD is really the acute issue. And the box checking crap is not great. It causes the doc's to play tic tac toe with the boxes. Misdiagnosis is deadly. I almost died from their crap.

[@jessicam.williams8978]

👏

[@Lisa-cp5xl]

!00% Me too. Glad you are still with us Kearie

[@110311DONTWANTCHANNE]

that is ignorant...just because many people diagnosed with BPD actually have PTSD, doesn't mean BPD doesn't exist. I know someone who fits the diagnosis of BPD, but not PTSD

[@keariewashburn4680]

I was typing a big long text in reply to I guess saying my comment was ignorant. Then I realized that it wasn't really necessary to tell you from what I experienced that was so horrific that it would probably really mess you up. The bottom line is I was never BPD OR ANYTHING went a very very devastating event was perpetrated on me and my children. They said 5 or 6 different so called diagnosis bs and nearly killed me with my ex that wanted me to die. I took the time when I had to find real help by an expert for PTSD. that's when I realized all the things that I couldn't wrap my head around and explain were actually severe narc sociopath abuse. There is alot to it and I decided not to comment on all of the factors. I know others have experienced horrific things of this nature and it's real hard to find someone who really knows what it's all about. I'm a retired nurse. I stopped because I could no longer handle the work. Take your therapy seriously and make sure you are with the expert ones that actually know what they are doing. If you are a violent person, PLEASE GET HELP IF YOU ARE RECOGNIZING THST IN YOURSELF. I was not ever violent abusive ect. My ex would never act violent toward me or the kids. But he was VERY VERY DANGEROUS. COVERT AND TRAINED TO BE JUST THAT. Anyway, if you have BPD and your DR is really helping you and you are doing well please stay with it and be happy knowing that you are aware enough of you as a person and you can get it managed with great support. PTSD is a whole different thing period and I'm just stating when doctors are playing card games with your ," diagnosis, maybe check out someone else. Misdiagnosis happens just be tuned in to being aware and funding the right dr for the right care. This is a book and I took everything out that was way TMI. Just get help when you need it and dont give up. Find the right one for you. 23 yrs later I'm alive and my children. Most people dont survive what I went through but I did and so can more people I pray.

[@keariewashburn4680]

@@110311DONTWANTCHANNE yes some people can have both. BPD is different from PTSD. Alot of things can cross over and show traits of BPD PERSONALITY CLUSTER B TRAITS. Trauma PTSD IS different. The triggers are different.

[@liesbethraepsaet7637]

Synchronicity! Perfectly on time. I always had questions around borderline in men. Just wondered for about a month if a friend actually had covert narcissism instead of borderline or C-PTSD. Only 5 days closer: two blow-ups on chat and a lot of confusion plus typical bait and switch. My God... only 5 days and I ran.... quietly. My 2 year deep dive into cluster B personality disorders saved me a lot of problems! Thx for your contribution to that!

[@alissahhodges5854]

I was diagnosed with both BPD and fibromyalgia. I left knowing 100% they had no idea what was wrong with me but threw some words at me. Year's later i have lupus and battered woman's syndrome and PTSD. I always had those things just had shit insurance and crappy doctors!

[@winxclubstellamusa]

What’s battered woman syndrome?

[@alissahhodges5854]

@@winxclubstellamusa : the highly variable symptom complex of physical and psychological injuries exhibited by a woman repeatedly abused especially physically by her mate.

[@winxclubstellamusa]

@@alissahhodges5854 so CPTSD! It’s finally in the DSM now.

[@merrywalsh2809]

@L’esprit de l’escalier She said she finally got diagnosed with lupus. That explains the error in diagnosing her with fibromyalgia which is a more non-specific diagnosis. Lupus will cause fatigue and body aches.

[@ashleylove-23]

​​@@lespritdelescalier4858'm not saying that there isn't a link to what your saying or suggesting. I have suffered with fibromyalgia and an official diagnosis of it for ever a decade and have to to not just believe anymore but know. Absolutely have that knowing that fibromyalgia is a result of trauma ptsd and it manifests in the body known as the mysterious illness known as fibromyalgia. Also noticed from being very observant that those who suffered from both fibro and trauma also seemed to have Ibs. It's just signals misfiring all over in the body but with that being said I'm not saying your claim is false either

[@kaymarpee]

As a child of a BPD type and granddaughter of a Narcissist, my hope is for the MH community at large to understand the subtlety of these types better. It’s so difficult to deal with when you’re up close and it’s so painful to have a mother/close family member struggling with these traits. It never goes away. There’s so much pain and denial. It’s just as damaging, but maybe not as acutely dangerous, as living with an alcoholic. And we’re often left without having a name for it, which is so invalidating and confusing. So while I hope for a better understanding/more nuanced diagnosis, being able to at least say “BPD type” has saved my sanity a little. It took me 30 years to be able to see the patterns fully and start to extract myself from trying to help when no amount of helping is going to be effective. And now I feel like I don’t have a mom or never did because there is such a lack of sense of self in that person and that is so painful to sit in. It always comes down to a cry about her own mother, while simultaneously saying she isn’t still affected by her childhood -_- I have tried non-engagement and validation, but there is an endless ability/need for my mother to be able to instigate a mini breakdown and endless speeches about how everyone hates her/no she hates herself/no, she’s strong and wonderful it just the world that gets her down/no, she understands there’s something wrong with her/no, it isn’t that it’s this.... on and on and on no matter what you say or agree with or validate or offer help for. The need to have these moments of expression is so great. It’s an emotional rollercoaster that takes the place of healthy dialogue. Emotions come out one way or another! Dragging them out of the water metaphor resonates so hard. My mother tells me “you’re so amazing you have so much insight I love talking with you,” and then she’s hyperventilating telling me she doesn’t know what’s up or down or who she is or why everyone thinks she’s crazy. It’s gotten so bad she’s called me evil. She takes terms like gaslighting and applies them to me trying to make sense of how to help her/how to co-exist with her mixed messages and remain in my own integrity. Honestly the bait and switch is something I should have caught on to a long time ago it’s caused me so much grief and distraction from my own life. She’s used me as emotional fodder since I was young and she definitely knows that which causes her more denial and pain. Lately she has been owning up to some of her actions but that triggers periods of even stronger denial. The last few years have been so rough, its getting worse with age. I think the pressure of the fantasy that if things changed/if she had a better husband etc, she would be happy, gets disillusioned as time goes on and she’s not handling that well. Having just admitted to needing therapy, my hope is that she can find someone who understands CPTSD and trauma. I want a mom, a healthy content mom. Seems like an impossibility.

[@meg-jj6zs]

I've seen a diagnosis of emerging emotional dysregulation personality disorder given to a teenager who experienced multiple sexual assaults...I'd certainly agree that emotional dysregulation due to recent trauma history is a better way to understand the issues...I'd agree ctpsd is a clearer explanation and then enables people to look at a trauma recovery response...which indicates recovery is possible...especially looking at emotional flashbacks...anyone got any thoughts?

[@CPE1704TK5]

Sounds like a lot of work you’re both doing but is she saying she’ll go to therapy and admitted some of her actions? That’s amazing well done the pair of you the first crack is so important. Good luck to you both. The one in my life is so far away from admitting anything that I don’t think we’d ever reach that. But it does my heart good to see it can be done 💪

[@londoncalling7895]

the admitting to needing therapy is STILL playing the victim though and now with validation! Please don't get sucked in with the endless words. Try to get away protect your own mind and self.💓

[@yaelfeder9042]

@@londoncalling7895 Not usually

[@Grace.AlwaysGrace.]

“Thank you” doesn’t even begin to communicate the gratitude and appreciation. Brilliant, absolutely brilliant.

[@jeladsnikpoh1289]

Just over a year ago, I permanently 'vanished' from my last remaining family, a brother and sister. I moved 2500 miles away without a trace. I always saw the crystal-clear patterns of narcissism in both (not sure and don't care which type in brother, he has traits of all types). My sister has distinctive fragile narcissism traits, and is unbelievably abusive and off the rails. She was diagnosed with Borderline Personality Disorder, and I 100% agree with your assessment that she's just a fragile narcissist. Manipulative, abusive, twisted crazy-making, most impressive VICTIM in the world, always left me confused, exhausted and bewildered with every encounter (before I embraced 'gray-rock', and later 'disappearance' method). Extreme anger and wildly emotional, attempted hoovering, always bragging about how her life is the most horrible on earth, but getting angry with any solutions or suggestions. Physically abusive, slandering, no regards to anyone elses comfort or wellbeing. I've washed my hands of it all, and have actually forgotten most of the trauma, so therefore don't need to analyze them any further (part of my own healing). But with what I do remember about them, you are 100% spot on. I feel I am very much healed from the lifelong situation, and just happened to stumble upon your video (subscriber, but I've basically distanced myself from the 'N' topic). Feel so much more free now! You're right on, my friend!

[@Backhand77]

They try to contact you?

[@jeladsnikpoh1289]

@@Backhand77 During the 'Gray Rock' period, she knew she was losing me as a brother, and desperately tried everything to hoover me in (guilt-tripping, emotional crap, over the top flattery, bribery, etc.). My brother just black-listed me, so he wasn't hard to 'ditch'. After they discovered I was gone (no idea where, but I'm 2500 miles away) they both started lighting my phone on fire, figuratively. I ignored them and their insanely long and numerous voicemails until I changed the #, and severed the last connection. I strategically left the old number on for a few months to leave them wondering, not make it too obvious. I don't wish evil upon them, hope they can find a miracle and change their lives. But I deserve a nice, peaceful life without being someone's scapegoat, punching bag, etc., so it is! No regrets, no temptations to rebuild the bridges, only sweet peace on my beautiful property that I paid cash for! I may seem calloused, but I was the most patient, kind brother anybody could ask for. I had to learn to set boundaries.

[@aarongaffney6466]

burn that bridge forever, good luck and many blessings on your healing path!

[@jeladsnikpoh1289]

@@aarongaffney6466 thank you, and you too. You must be seeing this video for a reason, as well. I wish you an easy solution, and a free new life!

[@joincoffee9383]

@@jeladsnikpoh1289 it’s not callus, it’s self protection

[@r1v3rw0lf]

Thank you so very much for this video. Upon realizing my mother was borderline, I started seeing her as a victim, even if she traumatized me as a child... She is a covert narcissist... I can now go low contact in peace... Thank you so so so very much.

[@aarongaffney6466]

Wow, this was really potent. I made a human with a BPD (she was in Tx when we met, graduated herself and all hell broke loose) - and I have met people who have this diagnosis and they seem like decent humans, albeit emotionally labile. There really is a difference and I feel like your work over so many years on this arena, has led to a very crucial, and hopefully useful on a widespread basis, distinction. Appreciate your openness about what you "could have been" diagnosed with in your 20's too - it matters that so much of these behaviors are often situational, and stress overwhelm responses (in normal humans). But, SO MANY have C-PTSD in this day and age, and MOST do not feel entitled thereafter to ruin and step on people's lives, cause chaos, drama and pain, just for the sake of it. Basically, if you still have ANY kind of a moral compass and gut knowing of right from wrong/empathy, I don't feel you should qualify for a Cluster B diagnosis. Evil is evil, and "hurt people hurt people" is a shitty catchphrase to medicalize and destigmatize psychopathic behavior. Most hurt people DO NOT choose to later go out and take out their pain, frustration and rage on innocent bystanders.

[@joincoffee9383]

Totally agree. And people should stop calling NDP and BPD “they are just children”. They are just from jerks to evil.

[@joincoffee9383]

And they don’t want to be treated because they are like pigs enjoying staying in filthy mud and enjoying dragging others down and toy with their victims.

[@yaelfeder9042]

@@joincoffee9383 I’ve BPD and I’m not evil. I got therapy and have been in therapy for over a year. I’m finishing college and have positive social interactions. I’ve a great relationship with my mom and have a close friend. Bad behavior doesn’t make someone a bad person.

[@yaelfeder9042]

I’ve BPD and have been in therapy for a year. I’m finishing college. I’ve a great relationship with my mom and a close friend. Let me tell you that it’s because I’ve an above average IQ. I’m not a genius but I am above average. Usually, how well one deals with it has to do with IQ level. Your ex probably had a low IQ or was an addict or co morbid or all the above.

[@joincoffee9383]

@@yaelfeder9042 abusive bad behavior is absolutely a bad person in the eyes of the receiving end.

[@rfwoolf]

Richard, big fan of yours, love your work. I subscribe to the Kernbergian model of BPOS (Borderline Personality Organisational Structure) which is the foundation for both NPD and BPD: They both have a BPOS and an "empty schizoid core", but in Grandiose NPD they constellate more of a personality on one side of the split. I also want to refer you to a presentation by Robert Britton in 2004 entitled "Narcissistic disorders in clinical practice": He believes that Borderlines are "thin-skinned" narcissists, and Grandiose NPD are "thick-skinned" narcissists. Kernberg said in 1971 that "Vulnerable Narcissism" would be co-morbid with BPD. In my opinion 80% of "Vulnerable Narcissists" will have BPD (that means not all BPD's are vulnerable narcissists). This is exactly what you're saying, and I agree. :D

[@rubene.3944]

It really made sense at the end of the video when you described that the fragile narcissist "drinks up" the confusion of his/her victims. I wish the video was longer. Any other videos about this exact topic? (fragile npd, self-aggrandizement through lure, bait and switch, subtle attacks a relishing in the victims response of confusion) I think it's not talked about enough this exact dynamic and you put it so well. Thanks for the video, mate! :)

[@graceb3934]

Omg, you just explained an ex friend I had. I struggled to fit her in to the more obvious narcissistic behaviours I could easily identify (after many years of being blind to it). I had actually wondered if she might be bpd as there was always a victim mentality, and emotional manipulation. So you totally nailed the description of this manifestation.

[@iamazone9023]

OH BOY - You seem to hit the nail on the head once again, Richard. I recognize what you say about abandonment anxiety not necessarily posing a big issue. The people that I believe to be on the spectrum ALL show serious emotional dysregulation due to a hyperactive, harsh and brutal inner critic. They try VERY hard to fend off CLEAR signs of their chronic sense of inferiority. They do this by desperate and appalling attempts to intensely shame and humiliate other people. It is nauseating to witness how these toxic types demean others in an attempt to elevate themselves. Or to cause great harm or pain as a remedy for their sick and corrupt ego. I totally agree with what you say about how they are ADDICTED to inflict pain and trick the people around them. This really is very SICK shit. I'm not so sure about them not being aware of this behaviour, though. The jury is still out on that one. The addictive element is very real. The maladaptive behaviour does seem to have a level of desperation in it. There's a frantic and jittery quality about it. At times, they can 'feel' like someone in need of a fix of heroin or crack.

[@SpartacusPlanktonpants]

Dude! This is the best thing you've come out with in a good while and it makes so much sense. Since beginning to learn about personality disorders and CPTSD, re-thinking about the various people I've encountered, and also myself, this ties it all together extremely well.

[@zigggyyyc7342]

I'm dealing with one of these fragile psychopathic narcissists in court soon, who is my ex. She told blatant lies and used pity play in the last hearing. Do you think the legal system is switched on to these fragile narcissists? I think it should be mandatory for the legal system to be fully aware of these cluster B types

[@ElanaVital83]

Ugh...they'll just scream ableism

[@charlottecomfort2446]

Search “Sam Vaknin court” he has videos on how to deal with these situations. Good luck, it’s soul destroying, dealing with these people, but the peace you’ll have when it’s over is worth it 🙏🏻

[@tragedy-and-comedy]

I’ve seen advise of keeping record of messages, emails, etc. anything you might need to prove who you are dealing with in black and white. I just gain the habit of screen shot ‘weird stuff.., just in case 😅

[@MrDblStop]

I've just been through it, it seems like it was yesterday, but the 18 month court process actually ended 8 months ago. The ex tried to stop me seeing my daughter completely. Some extremely good (and expensive) legal representation and a series of judges who seemed to see what was going on but obviously wouldn't overtly use the Cluster B terms, slowly unravelled her case. Her entitled behaviour in court, and obvious demonstrable untruths in her statement didn't help either. But I was warned going in to the process by my (female) solicitor that the child protection system as it stands in the UK is inherently biased against men. And, I was advised to not be seen to be giving any kind of diagnosis about the ex. In my main statement I did talk about trauma and how her behaviour had changed afterwards, and how her emotional dysregulation had worsened. Interestingly I think the child protection officer assigned to the case changed her opinion during the process, and eventually supported me. I have intended to write to her to ask if she is aware of the Cluster B pictures, for exactly the reason you state, that the legal system should be aware of this. But I can't face it yet, 8 months on. Good luck with your case. I hope you have good representation and deep pockets, or have some good physical and emotional resources if you're representing yourself.

[@zigggyyyc7342]

@@MrDblStop thanks for your support. Mine is a DVO case. For the last 3-4 years she has been stalking and harassing me online since I left her. I completely flipped my life upside down to get away from this psycho. When she realized I had moved interstate she became bitter and started attacking me through fake profiles on toxicbook. Even setting up a hate page on me. She has been like a stroppy little child with avoiding this DVO and lying her ass off in court. One thing I've realized is that if you're a man in this situation you need 10 times the amount of evidence to prove you're being abused. These people are pure evil parasites on society.

[@Fancyfree252]

I feel that society needs to understand that there is a difference between empathic and empathetic. And to challenge the “empaths” to understand that when they claim that they are an empath they are saying that they “KNOW FOR CERTAIN how/what another person feels or thinks. Being empathetic means you “can understand” why a person may feel or think a certain way. The first is narcissistic. The second is compassionate.

[@meagiesmuse2334]

@Fran Cullen - Agree. I also think many very empathetic people are misdiagnosed as Bipolar Type II.

[@raewynurwin4256]

The difference is sympathetic and empathetic, the first is cerebral, learnt behaviour the second is feeling what another is experiencing.

[@smintedinc2482]

Your long videos have kept me entertained since 2016 - the longer the better! I garden, drive, cook, edit and chuckle along with you at your silliness and you cracking yourself up with your own jokes

[@janicedick4825]

I just escaped a psycho BPD abusive husband after 42 years of hell, womens aid have put me in a lovely country hotel till they find me accommodation, first time in decades I feel safe and happy, Richard Grannon you set me free, thanks so much.

[@quinnm.3127]

Wow, you are so lucky to be there. congrats!

[@teemadarif8243]

Salute to you sir!!!!!!!!! I couldn't have said it any better!!! Thank you for standing and stepping forward to SAY IT!!

[@vintagevibes1974]

I have said the same about Bipolar. I think it’s a spectrum of anxiety and bipolar is on the extreme side once sleep is gone. Anyone will get psychotic without sleep. Insomnia is common with anxiety etc. So labels are definitely hmmm when you analyze. People need to sleep and that can be proactively helped so mania or psychosis is not a cycle.

[@arthurcurry7688]

Well, at least now I know the "Why." Part of my healing I know that I will also need to receive the "Closure" piece. (Which, is a huge struggle!) Just as much of a struggle as learning about the "Why" me? Now, the PTSD has returned. The heartache on top of having to deal with some sort of " Smear Campaign" that he has launched against me (unbeknownst to me as to why) this is all very baffling to me. Drowning now myself in a pool of total confusion- I find myself fighting for a way back to my once old life of normalcy. The emotional & financial battle scars that I wear - I hope and pray that I can one day soon forget!

[@losethisajohel3985]

Absolutely Billiant!! One of your best youtube posts ever!!! I'm extremely thankful....dealing w/bait & switch person and I couldn't pin point why conversations were so perplexing. I truly appreciate your insight immensely!! Thank you,thank you,thank you!!!🙏

[@bobbivaneman1584]

You are Brilliant, Richard Grannon ! I get it ! Thank you for sharing & thank you for caring. God bless you, Dear Man. ➕ ♥

[@ashleighwalters3241]

Excellent, excellent content. As the child of a woman who was diagnosed with BPD by more than one psychologist, this reframing makes so much sense and seems a far more robust approach to understanding (and sometimes treating) the disorder. Thank you so much!

[@vinnyguitara]

This is fascinating @Richard Grannon - I think it boils down to borderline as a secondary psychopath. I like your theory for sure and can see how you arrived at it. Thanks for your content, good sir!

[@harleyfsbo3027]

I think your assessment is quite good. The point you made about ‘Empaths’ is also valid. For one, I just don’t think that people described under the label ‘Empaths’ (or ‘Super Empaths)’ would go around boasting that they are ‘Empaths’ ... most likely these self-anointed individuals are just deeply wounded folks trying to justify their position or make themselves feel good about hating Narcissist but I also do suspect that some of them may very well be the ‘sheep in wolves clothing’ (aka Covert Narcissist) ... no way of telling on the internet - covert narcs love the anonymity, distance and psychological hideouts offered by the internet as well as the opportunity they get to enjoy being the chameleons that they are. Sometimes I really wish I never learnt about their existence. My life was fine without knowing that such Evil people existed around me and my family. They leave a horrible taste in your mouth (figuratively speaking) and you’ll be rinsing your mouth for a long time trying to get that taste out of your mouth.

[@TheArchetypalist]

That's exactly what I learned over the years. Many empaths are nothing more than covert narcissists.

[@joshualong4690]

I feel as if I'm a bad person, or I did at one point in the past. I remember vividly having someone say they admired me for how I was everything that he's been told a good person was. I absolutely lost my mind and left and actually cried for a while. I have never really felt bad again, at least like I was somehow bad and proof wasn't necessary. I say that because I've always tried to understand other people and how they feel, which is what people tell me empathy is. It is hard for me to see someone with an injury because if I think on it too much it causes me pain. it's not magic or anything, I look at the injury and my mind "Mirrors" what should be going on and then I have pain at the base is my skull at which point I close my eyes and clear my mind. it won't happen unless I let it so it's not something uncontrollably disruptive. I can feel something similar regarding emotion, just not as easily and if I'm watching out for behavior seeing the signals for nonverbal requests for guidance or looking for those who intend to speak or guide a conversation or who they defer to for judgements. I can't see it happening while I'm part of the situation because I literally can't see enough of the people and their actions. I'm trying to associate perceptive variations with the same basic controls. for me they all use the same way of thinking and that is to put the person and their behavior into a mental space where I can overlay my own expected sensations or perceptions etc. I don't know if any of that is empathy, but it's what I do. and this is the only time I've ever described it so I'm not using it as my "I'm the must unique person ever" script. I don't really have much in the way of script hah. if anyone can describe empathy better please let me know.

[@jedichild6815]

There was a difference I’ve been attuned to, and you put it your finger on it. Thanks as it was tremendously relieving as I easily introspect and can self gaslight. That’s not good for healing as I think it’s only carrying my ex relationship in my head with me. Good, I can let that go. Peace ☮️ people.

[@dizee72]

After dealing with someone who ticks so many boxes, be it BPD, or Fragile Narcissism, and I am sure ticks boxes for more. They had the ability to remain even tempered, always quietly spoken, however needed to remove the word "if" from their vocabulary, "if this didn't happen," "if so and so didn't do that," they could not be wrong, and believed they were of higher IQ than most. One of the most draining person I have ever had to deal with, really made me sick to my stomach, the personification of gas lighting. Thank you Richard for your invaluable insight, information. The best thing I ever done was no contact, anything I want to say, I know matters not to them, and if I am to be completely honest, I no longer care, what does trouble me, is the destruction that lays in their wake.

[@MrDblStop]

I was never convinced by the distinction between NPD and BPD given my experiences of my ex. But 24:04 on, that's her.

[@thechicantique4567]

It must definitely is fake! Thank you for your endless fight to open our eyes to the quackery of psychiatry! 👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼

[@tragedy-and-comedy]

Amen!

[@RedEarthAA]

Hey Richard. Thank you for being you. Thank you for you're desire to work on yourself and then go on to help others. You're awesome. So glad I found you....CPTSD here. Hello from Tasmania.

[@tarp11z]

As a BPD in recovery for 30 years (semi-recovered), it wou be more than prescient if we could all get in the same page with NPD, BPD, PTSD, CPTSD, etc. It's more than overdue. Thank you, Richard, as always.

[@Chevytothelevi]

THANK YOU for addressing this terminology!

[@arne.r.kristensen4419]

This is very helpful and very comprehensible and much recognizable video you've made. I'm 43 and since 24 I'm recovering and reprogramming and deprogramming from covert narcissistic abuse by my father I have only ome faint memory of my mother cause of she passed right before tree years of age, first from my forter mother from age two to six which is also covert narcissist. And know I'm regularly searching for some helpful for my disorderness, I know now for sure that I have or I'm a 'aspd-covert bpd' I've finally have name for what I am or what I have, while I've watched prof. Sam Vaknin yesterday. But only had use my fist once as a child and only few time in a physical confrontation in my teenage. I remember in my childhood when been angered I've learned not to react but let my anger explode in me when it happens I remembered my ears suddenly rings and simultaneously dizzy,I don't want to go into details on this comment section. When I want to truly know somethings I couldn't help myself go deeply into researching tell completely comprehend for what I want to know. I've been watching some of your videos, prof. Sam's videos, and a lot of dr. Les Carter's videos, and Doctor Ramani's videos which all of you are greatly helpful for my emotionally and mentally 'self healing' process. I've been go through many times treatments and therapies. I've normally don't commenting for what I've had watched. Thank you for your much comprehensive videos.

[@Luke-Emmanuel]

my theory is this, at its root is cptsd and anxiety from constant trauma, what then happens is dissociation, then the cross wiring in the brain, then bpd. Cptsd at the root and finding those lost painful memories and refacing them as an adult will take away the trauma responses and anxiety which will stop or cut the dissociation and bpd

[@scorpiolove674]

Drowning person is best analogy for covert narcs, they actually hate you for trying to save them and they want so badly to drag you under too instead.

[@anxaxw7546]

I dont think it's just BPD that is a consequence of trauma but from my own experience I am sure that most mental illnesses are.

[@TorusVibe]

I agree. When I dig deeper into any matter that pple come to me with, we come back to the beginning: C-PTSD/R i.e. narc-abuse. Thanks for speaking out and normalizing the Human State.

[@stepfaniehawkins205]

I've been struggling with my diagnosis of BPD, it just seemed so crazy to me. I kept hearing horror stories about these BPDs that spew outrageous lies, steal, bully and manipulate people and how people go running from them. And then I'd occasionally hear about people like me, creative, abandonment issues, STRONG inner critic, self harming, occasional lose my shit and blow up on someone if I have to much to drink. I kept thinking how can these 2 VERY different types of people be in under the same umbrella. My psychiatrist during my 1st interview with her, asked me if my therapist had diagnosed me BPD as well as CPTSD. I said no, just the BPD and the psychiatrist said she didn't see how that was possible because in her estimation I DEFINITELY have CPTSD. IDK, I'm seeing a new therapist in 2 days and I'm going to bring up the CPTSD, because from my research there is a shot I could get in my spine that will literally reset the fight or flight response, that is basically stuck in overdrive, it's basically on all the time and causing the CPTSD, this shot brings that all back down to neutral. God it would be great if that's all I really need, it a shot, because quite frankly at age 50, I'm sick of talking and talking about all the trauma and bullshit that happened in my life. Personally I'm over it, I've forgiven those that don't even deserve it, I barely think about the things that happen..... but my body and subconscious apparently don't know I'm over it.

[@sarahcouture24]

Oh wow. I LOVE how you explained the inner and outer critic. They are both ran by the same dysfunctional superego motor, which was broken by trauma, it’s a warped sense of morality, one aimed outward at others and the other targets the self. Very great explanation, in summary, not word for word. You’re so smart Richard 🤩

[@bpassion4fashion581]

I’m so glad that you are talking about BPD. I find that there is not a lot of information on KZbin about this disorder, and whatever there is out there , do not get into the subject in depth.

[@AuntyEsther]

I am glad you think that PTSD and CPTSD aren't necessarily separate entities. I had a nasty accident which meant fighting for my life for a week with multiple complex fractures left unfixed. I have no memory of being hit by a car at 40 mph and dragged up the road and thrown off (where I think I got the head injury from hitting the kerb). It took just seconds to injure me that badly but I suffered trauma upon trauma as a direct result for years afterwards. My body never fully recovered. Nor did my mind.

[@AuntyEsther]

All the times in hospital were traumatic for eg, I was 18 and surrounded by old biddies many of whom died - one right in front of me, using bed pans was traumatic as well as the days I had diarrhoea whilst bed bound, incredible levels of pain, out of body experiences and hallucinations in the first few days, the loss of my "teenage immortality", the loss of the belief that "that would never happen to me" (insert any kind of disaster that people think won't happen to them), learning to walk again, being very crippled when I came out of hospital having been very athletic before - not physically able to drive for a year, having to give up long distance running which had been a major stress reliever for me for six years before the accident, developing arthritis - and being housebound at times - by my mid 30s and having lasting mental health problems - lack of support from those closest to me (it felt like I was being punished for years) including not giving me the parental portion of the grant to attend University when I was too unwell to take up part time work to make up the money (which affected my degree result as I had to live on half the money I was supposed to, and couldn't get anywhere decent to live on the money and had to move around a lot). My immune system has never been the same and I've suffered with stomach problems too - for decades - ever since the accident. All this happening when I should have been getting educated, running marathons, finding a partner and a career...

[@chrisjackson9626]

The group on Richard's right hand basically describes the group who have caused me the most harm over my lifetime, which includes my mother. As someone who is on the autistic spectrum, I fall for their shenanigans every time, only recognising the abuse when it is too late.

[@ginnieporembski8236]

Yes! My ex-husband, who sent me this video BTW, I have always believed was a covert narcissist. He’s self diagnosed as BPD, but he definitely fits into the second category described. CPTSD100%. But he is 100% committed to being the biggest victim in the room every single time. Somehow even when his clients pay him more than his normal rate and ask for reasonable standards in his work he feels he is a victim. He considers me divorcing him evidence of my controlling nature because my decisions affects him. I agree 100% that borderline does not fit as well as covert or fragile narcissist. He feels “righteous indignation “over the fact that I want some kind of accountability when he has custody of our daughter, despite the fact that he has an extensive drug and alcohol abuse history and I do not. His sense of entitlement is epic. His own attorneys have commented on the fact that neither of the judges like him, and yet every time we have a hearing he lords it over me that he is going to get everything he wants in the hearing. Which he never does.

[@nateo200]

Sounds about right for cluster B lol.

[@sharroon7574]

I totally agree about resenting help, I helped one and spent the next 2 years being punished for it with baiting, gaslighting, manipulation, lying and do on.

[@TuneInWorld]

I love this distinction, and I believe it is correct. It has seemed odd to label anyone who has been traumatized, and has an excess of emotion-as a result, as personality disordered (not to confuse them, with those that indeed are). Much of the current research is about somatic release techniques to release people from freeze states, like lancing a boil, and retraining of emotion regulation and becoming more aware of one's own nervous system. It becomes an awful crime, then, to label or be labelled, adding insult to injury, if this is the case. Like, let's just heap some more shame on to traumatized people. Perhaps part of the reason for this, is our collective intolerance of pain, both ours, and others. Being a witness, requires a good amount of expertise, boundaries, and holding a safe space, and it looks like a shift is in the works, to offer a more compassionate view of human suffering, and approach to trauma, from the therapy world. Dr. Aimee at Trauma Healing Accelerated, is one practitioner who is doing amazing work in this area...you may find her work of interest. Many blessings to you and thank you for your gift of transparency.

[@Spudcore]

Great video, clarified a lot of things for me. I like the term Emotional Dysregulation Disorder. It's easy to understand, and the acronym EDD is a bit like ADD, which is a thing most people are aware of and is not particularly scary.

[@winxclubstellamusa]

Us neurodivergents (ADHD) are emotionally disregulated, but not in the same way that trauma causes. In 3 years of daily emotional regulation work I’ve healed the daily and extreme emotional flashbacks of my trauma. And I’m now back to my regular, naturally intense and visceral yet harmless and completely self-contained (as in it doesn’t explode at anyone) emotions due to having a mutated pre frontal cortex, amongst many other parts of my brain. There are many ways emotional disregulation manifests, like sudden de-realization in the middle of crying my heart out, and all of them unfortunately look fake and/or bizzare to the neurotypical. It’s not uncommon for people with my brain to have always been accused of being an drugs since their single digit years like I was. No one believed that I was ever completely sober because of the uncontrollable and really embarrassing human zoomies I experienced and still do. Those accusations will never stop hurting, but I’ve learnt to accept that most will never understand because they weren’t born physiologically different than others, so I just accept and respect that rejection and misunderstanding is inevitable, and that’s completely ok. And yes, we are harmless.

[@leifkvalvik1827]

Excellent. You are sharper than Sam Vaknin (which I also like). One observation which I have is that a person can gradually move from the CPTSD camp to become a full blown Fragile Narcissist/Psychopath. Great if you could discuss this transition also. From my experience this can absolutely happen. Totally agree that BDP is out of date as a diagnosis. My theory is that has something to do with that it sounds better than Fragile Narcissist/Psychopat diagnosis. Great channel you have!

[@misssaiwasn6935]

"they are poisoning the well" is a great analogy for the covert Narc type and yes, mine (husband of 20 years) definitely had psychopathic traits. they don't only feel dangerous, they are. My (female) friend on the other side, with a history of child emotional and sexual abuse who was diagnosed with BPD is clearly on the "emotionally disregulated" side. I absolutely agree with your definition here of those two very different BPD-types Richard Grannon, great way to define it and fantastic work for bringing clarity into the BPD issue.

[@cartwheelsinthezendo]

Hoping to read your new book tonight. Was scrolling through your videos and came across this one. Wow did you describe my ex perfectly. Dangerous and always waiting to zing me when I least expected it. Kept me off kilter for years. Was diagnosed BPD. He is in love with his victimhood. You helped me at the Tampa seminar in 2017 and I walked away after that but at times kept getting drawn back in. This video is more specific and easier to mentally process. Thank you for continuing to offer insight that is so helpful to those of us who have been so confused by these behaviors.

[@pixinotdust4925]

Man, man, man..I would have needed this Video somewhere between 2015 and 2017 and I wouldn´t have fallen for this "fragile disaster"... This kind of basic knowledge is so important. Thank you for the subsequent training, which should ideally have taken place parallel to sex education lessons in the teenage years..👍🏾🎯

[@stixsta6007]

Tried and tested in my field of multiple and complex needs. I've seen more light bulb moments and sustained change from sitting with adults and watching your Fortress Mental Heath Protection system than any mainstream mental health input. Bonus is your not on a waiting list and cannot get discharged. Most I meet have had a negative experience of mainstream MH and this often causes a distrust of getting any professionals involved. I also have many conversations with other agency workers about not taking a person's emotional dysregulation outburst personally in order to build back relationships. The more we understand the core of complex Ptsd the better we become at holistically healing those affected by it, and I include myself in that regard. Much respect for your continued insights, they do indeed make a daily difference 👍

[@sk8erjess]

When someone is lost and they don’t want to be found - don’t waste your time, be brave and walk away 💃

[@tragedy-and-comedy]

Amen! And so I did 👍😅

[@sk8erjess]

@@tragedy-and-comedy Be proud of yourself for being so strong & brave 💪🏻

[@GypsyMaeRose]

Love this ❤️

[@annbritanilsson]

"Beating people in micro social interactions" . Thank you.

[@yvonneflanagan2312]

What a wonderful pod cast! So real, something to ponder and investigate! Love your realness,as always enlightening on the Nuances! You’ve been through such an challenging time, and I know from my small experience how challenging the boundaries can at times be so soul destroying and how people feed or take so much, but there are people out there that value your truth, and want to explore what makes us who we are, and the growth that needs to happen. I hope you keep doing it even though it is I know costing yourself and your energy! Happiness today on the beach in Norfolk with my two beautiful cockers chasing ball and other dogs joining in the joy de vie! After 30 years and healing still from my NPd ex, (not just me but two therapist) the amazing JOY and fun in this moment is more intoxicating than him and his career and money! Thank you, very funny and intelligent man!

[@CannabisIsMedicineUK]

I agree.. it’s a trauma spectrum, .. from DID to CPTSD..and it is an outdated diagnosis…it is a dysfunctional response to early complex trauma. my close friend has a diagnosis of cptsd, mine is ptsd and BPD.. yet our symptoms are so similar. I get extremely stigmatised, amd she has a completely different experience with professionals. I’m 50 now, and I am so tired of being written off as attention seeking, and refused help with my complex trauma. My BPD traits have changed dramatically as I got older… eg self harm, interpersonal turbulence, suicidal ideation.drugs, alcohol. Etc, .. what is left is still an inability to deal with stress, and internalising it, but mostly feeling harrowed and haunted by my traumas. What’s awful in the UK now is that BPD services are being dismantled.. I’ve been part of a day community for 5 years, it was meant to be lifelong membership. It polished up my interpersonal skills so much, amd gave me a sense of security and community. But it is currently being dismantled, as are all of the, throughout the UK. The strange thing was that the ethos was that they didn’t deal with trauma at all.. even though all of us are chronically wounded and traumatised. Trauma was the elephant in the room. the healing came from the member interactions, not necessarily the workers.some were really helpful,.. some were fragile narcissistic…but the community was so therapeutic. This change in system is going to push us all back into isolation,..Once you are labelled with BPD, it’s like being blacklisted for the rest of your life… BPD is such an outdated diagnosis, reminiscent of ‘hysteria’ diagnosing of women in the past. I don’t like the new term either, emotionally unstable personality disorder either, as they might as well rename it hysterical woman syndrome. I’m particularly sensitive to being stigmatised because this diagnosis almost killed me 10 years ago.. my bowel perforated but because I had been in hospital with ods in the past, they misconstrued my medical crisis as attention seeking, and refused to scan me, and tried to discharge me.. I got so I’ll they finally realised 5 days later and I ended up in a coma fighting for my life with septic shock..and resulted in life changing physical injuries and more layers of PTSD.. all because of stigma and misconceptions of BPD label… it sucks to be tarred with the same brush of being emotionally dangerous, manipulating ,attention seeking,pathological liars.

[@kopykat6843]

Why is it being dismantled? You say that member interactions are what helped, is there any way to get together again in a similar format?

[@ameliel8792]

Oh no why is it being dismantled? Cos of cuts to mental health and other services?

[@CannabisIsMedicineUK]

@@kopykat6843 it’s a governent led financial thing, trussed up as being ‘ breaking attachments and sending us out into the community, but without dealing with the core trauma. They are offering some quick CBT based groups, for me, because I’m physically disabled and have serious chronic illness, they won’t accept reasonable adjustments , so all they are offering is one 4 week cbt group, amd that’s it.. it’s def not enough to get me well enough not to need any mental health services for the rest of my life… I talk about it regularly with a fellow friend, about setting up our own group, but I can’t commit to run itdue to my physical health, amd we feel like we need a ‘ responsible adult’ to hold the space for when we are struggling to cope.

[@CannabisIsMedicineUK]

@@ameliel8792 yes it is government led financially driven

[@elibeevalentine6451]

This video just changed my life! Thank you SO much!!!!

[@LUCYFA-sf3zx]

I wonder if the future of psychology would be Be better served By ditching the DSM5. In favour of treating people through the identification of trauma experienced, trauma response and coping mechanisms used. From what I’ve seen and experienced all mental illness is Experienced and witnessed on a sliding Spectrum of trauma Experienced and reaction to trauma. The diagnosis and label of Each mental Health disorder seems to create a dead end point in treatment. Somewhat creating a separation between the traumatised person and the Need to develop healthier coping mechanisms. Ie ‘I have bdp so can not change’ rather then ‘ I am traumatised and need to identify the trauma so I am able to change my coping mechanisms.

[@leslieephland4499]

The Mental Health industry doesn't want to call it trauma because the parents who messed their children up in the first place are paying the bills. But what a great video! Thanks! More! More!

[@katieandnick4113]

And trauma disorders are treated primarily with psychotherapy, whereas everything else is treated with drugs.

[@DarthShadie]

Macbeth, Act 1 Scene 5, Lady Macbeth to Macbeth. "Look like the innocent flower, but be the serpent under it."

[@phainesthai7936]

You are so spot on in this video, you couldn't of articulated it better.

[@davewoods8010]

20:41. I called this Anti-Help. How can someone ask for help so much and then when help is there. Condemn the helper and make them feel worthless to being able to help. Final thought feels like they don’t want the help at all but they will happily wallow in wanting the help

[@ginalorraine1899]

I appreciate this video and think it clarified things so well. Thank you. I’m divorcing a fragile narcissist. Even after identifying this in him, I have found myself wondering if he is a fragile narcissist or a psychopath. Recently I have wondered whether he’s a fragile narcissist or someone with borderline personality disorder. I’ve also wondered about where multiple family members of origin land on the very fuzzy spectrum of fragile narcissism, borderline, and C-PTSD. I’m trying to heal, and have researched this for two years, and was getting flustered by the confusion and overlap. I, too, think terms need updating for simplification and clarity. Thank you for doing this video. I learned that you have a C-PTSD channel (thank you! I look forward to learning from your no-nonsense self), and concur with everything you said on this video. Please don’t feel the need to apologize for the length of your videos. The information you put out is valuable, and worth the time. I find you to be detailed, concise, and funny (much needed in so many traumatized lives). Thank you!

[@Obliv69]

sounds like the madonna song: Borderline Feels like I'm going to lose my mind You just keep on pushin' my love Over the borderline (Borderline) Keep on pushin' me, baby Don't you know you drive me crazy? You just keep on pushin' my love over the borderline

[@stasstreb]

Exactly! I have nothing to add. In this world only exists "fighters" and "pendants"... //pro life and more or less anti life//self-reliant and reliant... Willingness and self-progress is the key, but most narcistic personalities (a.s.o.) would rather outsource their problems to the outside world than take some steps in the right way.

[@robintruelove777]

Your voice is so soothing to me i want to thank you for helping me

[@nryane]

As someone who was once diagnosed by a psychiatrist as BPD in my 30s, I concur with your assessment of it, Richard. Having experienced trauma during my childhood, I would say that my reactivity was high and my emotional regulation was low at that time. Repeated therapies and counseling barely touched any of it. EMDR and CBT trauma therapies helped to break through the trauma and reset my brain. I still have some reactivity and overall have done major healing since 2014, when I began this most recent therapeutic quest. Looking forward to your take on other, similar topics. Blessings!

[@timefortee]

CPTSD emotionally dysregulated DPD (emotionally gifted adults in a bad state) seems to be routinely misdiagnosed as BPD, the latter being closer to narcissists.

[@claireq2534]

I'm a woman, I have a diagnosis of BPD. I got help - DBT, then private counselling with someone experienced in TA and the effects of trauma. I'm doing really, really well and living a life I thought I would never deserve. Someone else in my family has the same diagnosis as me. Suffice to say, we couldn't be more different. I'm not a balanced expert in this subject (I have personal experience but not the appropriate education) but this video rings true to me.

[@autisticautumn7379]

BPD was a differential diagnosis that was on the table before I had my autism diagnosis .I figured I had a number of borderline traits but I knew I had trauma ! alot of trauma .There was confusion between emotional dsyregulation and actual meltdowns c( in my eyes) which was obviously not recognised until I was diagnosed . I was accused of narcissm too I can see now it was my lacknof social skills because believe me I do have empathy alotbof empathy. Socially talking about your obsessions and not listening looks narcissistic .

[@billbirkett7166]

I think that, for the most part, trying to make an 'MBTI style catalog' of mental illness and personality disorders really should start becoming a thing of the past. Every person out there is an individual and has a unique imprint of being screwed up in their own, unique, special way. If you type someone as having 6 different comorbid disorders...well, couldn't it ever occur to anyone that these are just symptoms of a much deeper underlying set of problems? I understand that you could have a mood disorder together with a personality disorder and they are sometimes separate issues...but mostly they aren't. When people are mentally ill they are also usually physically imbalanced with many many layers of traumas. That is the point of therapy, to get to the root, not to label label label, medicate medicate medicate. And as we are beginning to go the route of microdosing psychedelics and/or ketamine and MDMA, I think in time we will see that many of these medications were a horrible side show. A good therapist is worth their weight in gold, but they are hard to come by. And the mental health field is mostly dehumanizing in disguise as do-gooders.

[@katelindowiat9453]

I agree WHOLEHEARTEDLY! As someone who has previously been diagnosed with BPD, I’ve been running into some confusion because I am never exploitative/entitled! I treat my romantic partners like they’re a king (to a fault, even)! But I was recently doing a coaching session with David DeMars and he suggested that BPD may really just be CPTSD. And after watching this video, everything finally makes sense. I recently got out of a relationship with an incredibly exploitative and underhanded Covert Narc…and yup! All his behaviors are exactly the same as an exploitative/manipulative “Borderline.”

[@gertrudewest4535]

I don’t always agree with Grannon but appreciate how he and others challenge the corporate state social engineering squad- the entire realm of psychology and “therapy”.

[@sugarfree1894]

"Borderline" so often applied to young women. Perhaps the dividing line, as such, between Emotional Dysregulation and Fragile Narcissism is that the latter adopted a fawn response and become very skilled in it, perhaps in a co-dependent set up with an adult, giving rise to manipulative and exploitative behaviour along with a conviction (so to speak) that there is no one they cannot fool and control. The former are perhaps more from a place of freeze and fight. I worked briefly with a woman who was very delighted to call herself an HSP. When I said I didn't recognize that, she morphed from an aggressively delicate fawner into plain old aggression. It was a one-way street and I was going the wrong way!

[@CleoHorsemanship]

Amazing video and yes, WHAT a film! Here's an idea for a future vid - could you talk us through different diagnoses - eg the various combinations of issue you talk about here - and demonstrate examples via characters in movies? I think that would really help lay people get a good grasp of what these labels actually look like in human beings, in personalities.. or characters in books? I would LOVE to see a series of vids like this. So many fictional characters come to mind! Anyway, thanks for your work. It's great stuff 🙏🏻

[@tragedy-and-comedy]

BRILLIANT! Probably your best video. Looking forward to be continued… THANK You Richard 👍

[@salihashahid9526]

Please make a video about the correlation between BPD and secondary psychopathy. I would really appreciate it.

[@luckyscialdone3387]

I have cptsd and my husband I recently left I would say is a narcissist but the way you describe this wow is that him even the there will be blood quote he loves that. Understanding is key. And I felt this really opened my eyes. To myself. It's refreshing to hear months, 2 years I could actively work on this and get better. It was also refreshing to understand what have been dealing with. The guilt and pity kill me, constant victimhood.

[@judeannethecandorchannel2153]

Subject: When the Volatile Love of your Life gets Therapy, *Gets Worse,* and starts *normalizing physical assault* ... ... and your left to try to diagnose him on your own... ...because you're not allowed to talk with the psychiatrist... I'm here trying to figure out whether the love of my life that almost broke my rib, Etc. Is more Vulnerable narcissist or borderline. Two years ago his then new psychiatrist said that... ...in addition to his TBI from massive childhood brain injury, and PTSD from being at the Pentagon on 9/11... ...the psychiatrist said *in addition* to those two diagnosis, that my fiancé "*almost qualified*" for several others. Knowing him as I do, I can't help to think that among those others must have been narcissism, borderline (both Cluster B -- and Dangerous), paranoid, maybe intermittent explosive disorder. So now I feel like I'm left to diagnose him myself, and of course I don't have permission to talk to the psychiatrist... Two years ago my fiancé started with this psychiatrist, got on medication, and embraced individual and group therapy for Anger management. For six months I thought it all worked! It seemed like we could be in love without fighting, as it was in our Incadescent early days. ...Admittedly...he was introducing me to the adventures of doing a little cocaine every 10 days or so... But we weren't high All the time. (He would zone out into a video game on his phone A Lot when he was high.) But we weren't high all the time, and I thought we finally found recovery. I told my friends what a miracle the medication and intensive therapy wrought. Then some very daunting external stressors threw me into a 6 month clinical depression. And... of course ... he Wasn't supportive. If I even gently asked him to just be a little more friendly and engaged because I thought it would help me overcome my depression he would express great resentment that I was putting my problem on him period of course I was just asking him to be friendly and engaged. Which is a normal thing to want perand there's nothing wrong with wanting your partner to help you overcome and help this period that's what insignificant health means. No I understand why he wrote his own vows in his 1st marriage. He never intended to honor the traditional vows. He didn't even understand that soon Life partners are supposed to be there for each other in sickness and health. You thought that was something perverse of me to want from him. That he would actually focus on my problem enough to help me so that period of course I was actually asking For considerably less than that… just a little friendliness and an engagement. Just put down the phone and get your hand off the mouse once in a while stop staring at the computer screen and you're supposedly spending time with me. But I Was able to succeed at convincing him to back off and stop lecturing me. !massive amount of money spent on therapy and after dutifully taking his medication and then counteracting it all with copious alcohol consumption my arrangement got worse and turned into almost pure demon So I'm just trying to figure out what the hell happened. As we victims of coverts and borderlines seem to spend the next decade app And the aftermath dealing. I escaped 3 days before Halloween. Still living in a hotel trying to put the pieces back together… my wife's been changed forever Grande's nurses husband's. Cut me out of his will 6 months before he died cause he didn't like my pain management medication regime. Immediately fell in love with a vulnerable paragraph narcissist who seemed to be the antithesis of everything bad about my husband's who of course knew theless I also loved and still and that's ways do love I still in many ways do you love both of them and if I'm some kind of magnet I really need to figure that out

[@janed7774]

This is a great reminder Richard... love you 💕 I was given this diagnosis years ago .. I hear you Richard and I think you are more than correct xxx

[@amymcclelland310]

Yes. I agree. Well explained.Also, many are fearful avoidant which is similar to BPD

[@judeannethecandorchannel2153]

Newly, Finally, Free of the Abuse. By the time I left I was physically beaten and brain washed and barely able to escape. Despite all my education and, thanks to a recent inheritance, above average financial resources. I've been free for 5 weeks now. I'll never go back...