The boys: Grace telling Ryan a truth about homelander

S4E8

[@bobjones5370]

can we all agree that if Mallory let butcher cook and not get in the way none of this shit would have happened?

[@johnwayne8494]

"Cook"? Nah bro she was a skibidi rizzler. She no cap coulda turned Ryan from being ohio.

[@feeblelifts]

@@johnwayne8494 WHAT THE HELL GET OUTA HERE

[@papafishy7133]

@@feeblelifts save me from this brain rot

[@renevil2105]

​@@johnwayne8494 nah she a woman that jump the gun and can't keep her emotions in line with the goal now she let kid become brightburn.

[@DrAhzek]

@@johnwayne8494 Brainrot spreads like wildfire I see...what a poor soul you are xD

[@earlykyler2165]

I’m not sure why Ryan is surprised that HL doesn’t care about killing humans when he talked to him multiple times about humans being fragile playthings that don’t matter.

[@robinouuuuuuuu]

It's his father and he is a child

[@mac2312]

This show is just bad now

[@DragonOfTheMortalKombat]

​​@@mac2312 you're literally saying that after quite possibly the best episode of the series. You don't like it ? Womp womp.

[@GerbilGamingClips]

@@DragonOfTheMortalKombat respect peoples opinions

[@heisenberg73215]

​@@DragonOfTheMortalKombat best episode that's a bit far fetched don't you think mate

[@Axel_Kasai]

Butcher probably thinking he owes soldier boy an apology right now😂

[@camerongreene3357]

Too fucking little, too fucking late 😂

[@3takoyakis]

God, this show is so dead after that betrayal to soldierboy

[@joel5135]

​@@3takoyakis only for weird egdelords who can't relate to butchers Feelings for ryan

[@Mrikeepgettinmoneyagain]

Ryan showed no remorse for what he did, it wouldn’t be surprising to me that the grape baby inherited some sick disposition for lacking compassion.

[@joel5135]

@@Mrikeepgettinmoneyagain Bro No offense but you are stuck in the middle age. Using "grape Baby" as an insult is fkn pathetic

[@camerongreene3357]

Butcher realizing he axed soldier boy for nothing 😂

[@joel5135]

Homelander would probably done it himself. There is No way he would just stand there and do nothing 😂

[@DAWKINGZ1]

@@joel5135 Like Soldier boy would do nothing? He'd probably beat his ass, considering homelander is a kid in adults body

[@moe5020]

@@DAWKINGZ1 I mean he would try but without back up Soldier Boy would lose badly and considering he just hit ryan it would be worse then herogasm Homelander would have torn him in half.

[@AaronYogurt-hm3xq]

@@DAWKINGZ1 sometimes I wonder did people like you even watch the damn show. "He would probably beat Homelander, because he's just a crybaby", like we didn't literally have that fight a few episodes prior with Homelander overpowering SB, V'd up Butcher and V'd up Hughie at the same time. It's well established that Homelander is the top of the verse power-wise, he was literally created to be superior to Soldier Boy. Soldier Boy couldn't take him alone it shouldn't be even a debate anymore, his fans need to hop off his meat

[@mdstudios7549]

@@AaronYogurt-hm3xqok but homelander would have losed against soldier boy, maeve and butcher at the same time, also the only thing that soldier boy needs is to laser him with his power and homelander would have lost all of his powers

[@C.Frankenstein13]

Soldier boy: " everything you wanted, and now you blink? " butcher probably thinking i messed up.

[@Leafyleaves333]

Yeah I was literally expecting to see Soldiern Boy right next to Kessler lmao

[@Catarssis347]

⁠@@Leafyleaves333A Soldier boy alucination at the end of this scene would have been great. Or Kessler saying that exact words to him.

[@Cricketlive12349]

Grace is really dead?

[@Afameca]

@@Cricketlive12349 yes bro her neck was broke 😭

[@newhybrid101]

Nah the whole ending was bad. Butcher was right about not killing the kid,they should calm down and focus on Homelander again. You dont kill an 11 year old kid because he "might" go bad. That was the problem,not that Butcher didnt let Soldier Boy finishing Ryan. Ryan was knocked out,one of them should take him away,while the others were holding Homelander and then return to finish Homelander. One day the kid would understand,and if not then find a way to remove his powers without killing him You are all just edgy and want to kill a kid

[@iwishihadgoodinternet7766]

Grace f'ed up this one. Discussing all that critical info in front of someone who has SUPER HEARING, and springing all that lecture in one go.

[@johnwayne8494]

You might even say she wasn't...graceful

[@ray-chan9885]

Nice

[@yanosneverloses1147]

I get the assassination attempt on Singer causing her to rush it, but Ryan himself still calls her Aunt Grace and then says he’d come back later after he’d thought about it (which he would have done). She made him hit maximum stress which is why he killed her, not out of hate

[@harrylarry6324]

@@yanosneverloses1147 And tbf, she also made threats that very heavily applied that she was attempting to trap him in there as well. Grace was being an A grade idiot.

[@Yoxhio_]

there is no time left for taking it slow. she fumbled but this is the last stand. plus ryan most likely wasn't gonna be good regardless, he has seen and heard everything his dad has done yet he still wants to be with him. its been over for him

[@dannypitcherenterprises2414]

Honestly this was on Grace, she got emotional, laid all that shit on Ryan in one go and should've let him go.

[@PawiYT]

Ryan could’ve literally slightly push her and she could’ve fell lol, he literally wanted to murder her. and let’s not forget he cried and moped about killing Koy to butcher but did not give flying fuck about Grace who he called auntie 😂😂😂

[@John-ru2gq]

@@PawiYT He didn't want to murder her. You have remember he is young and emotional and hasn't learned to control his powers yet

[@moe5020]

@@PawiYT Grace literally just screamed in his face about his dad r@ping his mom and tried to get him to kill his dad and she would imprison him if he didn't. any kid would have this reaction which is bad for the idiot doing it if that kid can lift a truck. Grace did it to herself to stupid to live

[@Adi-mk2lq]

@@PawiYT that was a slight push from ryan, he just didn't hold back enough, if he fully pushed her she would have painted the wall red

[@WisnuNurAlam]

​@@Adi-mk2lq Yeah, bro forgot that one dude who got killed by Ryan because of not so serious push

[@Lowkenn_Edits]

If she had just let Ryan go. He would of came back in time. Kid was just told that his father is like the devil and that he would be used like a soilder to kill him. For a kid that is a lot of information to process. A lot of kids first emotion when in distress is to turn to anger. I don't think Ryan will be the next Homelander. He just needs to process and figure out how to deal with his father and himself.

[@MynameisBrianZX]

Unfortunately that just wasn't in her nature. As CIA and founder of the Boys, all she did was turn life tragedies into weapons, and she was trying to do this to Ryan despite genuinely loving him. It didn't work out the way she wanted because of her hesitation, but Ryan still learned that ruthless killing is the way of a world that wants to weaponize him, going further down the path of Homelander and Soldier Boy.

[@amitkenan3878]

She was stressed. As they speak, Homelander has begun to take over the White House. Once he completes the coup, she would lose her resources to fight him

[@Yoriichi_Tsugikuni___]

I think the kid would have turned great if Mallory had just stfu and let butcher do his thing but now, his adoptive parents lied to him, tried to capture him and turn him into a soldier to fcking kill his dad and Ryan killed Mallory, in top of what homelander has put in his head i think it’s not likely that Ryan is going to be a good guy

[@ДредВинг-ь7ж]

​@@Yoriichi_Tsugikuni___nah, Ryan will still oppose to Homelander, because there is incompatible clashes in their ideologies, but now Ryan will just do not trust Butcher either

[@prabalmohanta138]

Stop justifying ryans actions

[@richardsantosgarcia8972]

Grace utterly ruined this for everyone. In her desperation she ended up seeing Ryan as a weapon first and a kid second and paid the ultimate price for it. Butcher was truly reaching up to the kid, she only needed a bit of patience, Ryan literally said that he would be back, just asked for a little time to process everything.

[@machaolesplendide]

You have to be huge pos to defend a psychopath

[@vipwanrinkle6439]

I understand where she was coming from bc of the whole assassination attempt and everything but she let her emotions take over way too much which basically made Ryan feel like he was cornered and now butcher is gonna be a ruthless killer next season

[@richardsantosgarcia8972]

@@vipwanrinkle6439 Pretty much indeed

[@thelaughindustry773]

@@vipwanrinkle6439 She's desperate.

[@quangvinh5202]

It's rare to see Butcher being the voice of reason.

[@jonathan13co]

No it isnt? Have you even watched the show? He is always right. His methods are just a bit extreme, but definitely reasonable considering who they are up against. The boys cant get sht done without him. I think what you meant to say is its rare seeing him approach things less dramatically. Buts its not surprising, because he always knows what to do.

[@hazyworld8626]

​​​@@jonathan13coAlways right is slightly stretching it, His methods ARE extreme but reasonable given who they're dealing with. Being the voice is reason is rare since Butcher is a bad person, Supe Genocide, blew up a baby having no idea it had powers, killing Mesmer who didn't really post a threat (he already got the info he needed out of him, and was as scared of Vought as anyone else). But Butcher's ways are a necessity evil to Homelander. Butcher himself is aware and sees himself as a piece of shit.

[@Marvelfanatic3658]

​@@jonathan13coButcher does get shit done but saying he's "always right" implies you don't know much about the show

[@fadingship935]

@@jonathan13co Always right? Are you sure YOU watched the show? He left MM and Frenchie to die just to hurt Homelander's feelings. He didn't want Kimiko on the team. He didnt want Hughie to date and get intimate with Starlight. If it was up to Butcher, Kimiko wouldnt be on the team, Starlight would be on Vought side and The Boys would be dead in season 1.

[@yevgeniyaleshchenko849]

@@jonathan13co Have you watched finale? Was Buther right when he did that in the end?

[@spinozilla2421]

Bruh Grace really fumble the bag and couldn’t just let Butcher cook. Clearly the slow and steady approach was route to take, rushing all that info into the kid telling him to kill his dad who is his last parents when he still feels incredibly guilty in accidentally killing his mother wasn’t going to end well

[@MegaGoku49]

I would say even though she died for it I think Ryan will realize that when he witnesses his father's brutality in season 5 he'll notice that Grace was truthful and he'll go against his father

[@maliktp13]

​@@MegaGoku49That's my thought. Time will pass and once he sees what homelander operates, his mother's side will win out and he'll become a real hero. I do wonder if they'll keep the ending where hughie confronts butcher alone or will Ryan also be there.

[@Prince.Claveria]

For real man, no cap. my blud Grace really fumbled that one and took the L from my homeboy Ryan. She tryna fanum tax her from his diddy daddy and got cooked instead. Butcher was a skidibi rizzler doing nothing like only in Ohio goofy ahh...

[@Hanson032]

Women am I right

[@KKSBETRAY]

​@@Hanson032man butcher literally told Ryan to go kys and said he killed his mom like last season.

[@EX7Sonic]

Butcher's decision to not let Solider Boy off Ryan and Homeland looks dumber and dumber as each episode goes on.

[@unfortunate1313]

We have to let the show run 2 more seasons! Said the producers, probably.

[@expiredmilk5435]

​@@unfortunate1313I thought s5 was the last one

[@patrikgajcevic8123]

​@@expiredmilk5435 and that happened in season 3? Dumbass

[@joserios4409]

@@expiredmilk5435 It is. That guy was joking about how season 3 could've been the series finale had Butcher let Soldier Boy fight Homelander.

[@ludo974amv9]

Exactly now that's dumb choice now this choice made butcher crack he killed Neumann made their plan fail again and Homelander's camp wins again, so many bad choices the last season had better be perfect because it's ridiculous

[@AnonYmous-mc5zx]

Hard not to sympathize with Ryan when they literally tried to Black Site him.

[@ДредВинг-ь7ж]

Yeah, this is how kids under divorce and fighting parents feel like

[@gummyworms9329]

Ryan is super strong he could jsut walk past her, he was mad he wanted to hurt her, disgusting

[@zahin1227]

⁠@@gummyworms9329after hearing all that would you not feel the same?your not special you would do the same

[@thewickerflicker7362]

With that voice of his of course you can and questionable biology

[@TankGamingADHD]

@@gummyworms9329 You gotta realise tho, this is a kid who is one of the most powerful beings of all time and they drop a bomb shell of him that explains his dads full intentions and his own mother was r*ped, bare in mind he accidentally killed her so all of this is 100% gonna make a 13 year old extremely distressed. on top of that he realises hesbeing set up and about to be put in a cage unless he fights his only biological blood left being Homelander who is the most terrifying person ever. They should of let Ryan come to his own decision which i almost certain he would eventually come around with confidence but Grace pushed it to far. However by now Ryan should know his strength by now and killing Mallory was still extremly uncalled for.

[@justinguyos5476]

Kessler: I warned you. No matter what misplaced hopes you had in him, he is ultimately his father’s kid.

[@thedreamscripter4002]

Yeah - Ryan was cornered and pushed into emotional instability up to the point when he hit Grace too hard, not learned yet how to control his powers. Baaaaaaad Ryan, baaaaaaad - it is certainly not Grace and Butcher's fault.

[@ДредВинг-ь7ж]

​@@thedreamscripter4002yeah, Kessler just manipulates with Butcher

[@LemonRectangle]

This enabled him so bad lmaoo

[@justinguyos5476]

@@thedreamscripter4002 actually it was all Grace’s fault. Butcher was right that it is still too soon to drop such heavy stuff on the kid. He was already reaching out to Ryan, giving him the support that Homelander couldn’t. But Grace ended up being too desperate and saw Ryan as a weapon first, kid second. If she just shut up and let the kid go so that he can see firsthand how horrible Homelander is, she wouldn’t be dead right now.

[@justinguyos5476]

@@thedreamscripter4002 actually it was all Grace’s fault. Butcher was right that it is still too soon to drop such heavy stuff on the kid. He was already reaching out to Ryan, giving him the support that Homelander couldn’t. But Grace ended up being too desperate and saw Ryan as a weapon first, kid second. If she just shut up and let the kid go so that he can see firsthand how horrible Homelander is, she wouldn’t be dead right now.

[@DjunjiD]

I like how Butcher only softly protested when Grace mentions Flight 37, but then yells as she starts to talk about Becca. He knows how precious her memory is to Ryan, and doesn’t want to tarnish it in any way.

[@buhklao]

Butcher shoulda told grace to get the fuck out and let him talk to Ryan alone and Ryan mighta understood She rushed the hell out of him with all that info to the point that even if he saw the signs HL was kinda kooky, it was so much info dumping it seemed surreal

[@ZEE_130]

Actually that would have been a good scene I can totally see that happen if they did it ur way I like that 😊

[@MiketheNerdRanger]

At least now she won't have to live with her failure

[@MrDibara]

​@@MiketheNerdRanger *Some consolation! Lady won't reflect back on how she acted and pressured Ryan because she's dead.* 😑 Phrasing it like that, it sounds like she just escaped responsability.

[@MiketheNerdRanger]

@@MrDibara I was sorta being flippant, but yeah. I mean, she still died, which isn't ideal, but man, did she screw up big time.

[@buhklao]

@@MrDibara there's a saying about life threatening jobs "either it works out or it becomes not my problem anymore"

[@AirDrifter77]

I'm not gonna lie, her just spilling all of that in one go felt so forced, it felt so outta character for Mallory to just do that

[@germanytiger4405]

the whole plan crumbles down now with an urgent deadline of huge massacre, and mallory runs out of narrative description to drive ryan the way she intended to (Ryan reading heart pumps and takes their words the way a kid wants), pretty convincing how mallory act here.

[@mitsukiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii]

stone cold old lady to desperate grandmother very out of character

[@johnwayne8494]

The writing on this show turns into a circus when the plot requires it

[@saintniccage2818]

This show is peak bad writing. Sups are bullet proof when they need to be and not when it's needed.

[@demiurgeobzen327]

Yea... humans acting out of desperation when the world is burning down and nothing going according to plan is completely abnormal and out of character...... 😑

[@Reyna_Amaturi]

This was the unfortunate push for Butcher to listen to Joe fully. He now sees that he needs to kill every super, including Ryan, because now all he sees is another Homelander. Ryan, whether on accident or on purpose, killed Grace, who loved him dearly. But now, from his perspective, Ryan’s gone down a dark path, and he needs to stop him from becoming a more dangerous threat than Homelander. This season was the one where the good guys lost, where there was no clear way to win, with Butcher and Ryan going down a dark path, whereas, at the beginning of this season, they were starting to appear to be becoming good, but now there's no hope for either of them now

[@prabalmohanta138]

Yes. Ryan will end up killing homelander somehow and butcher would kill Ryan like he did killed noir in the comics

[@Xavier28200]

@@prabalmohanta138 No butcher has to kill homelander

[@JavedKhan-bo1nn]

It was also unfortunate push for Mallory as well 😂

[@Xnozea]

then why didnt he kill zoe as well? does butcher think all supes are bad nor not? the show cant decide. seriously this is a show for me at this point. not a story.

[@warrioremperor6320]

@@prabalmohanta138 wrong Ryan is not as highly trained as Homelander he can’t do anything to him bad logic

[@spiderfreak35]

Grace 100% shit the bed on this one. Dropping all that on Ryan on one hit and just expecting him to go train to kill his dad was the worst way to do things.

[@er1chawk]

I'm sure the actress portraying her said to the writers, "She's not this stupid."

[@spiderfreak35]

@@er1chawk I’d bet money on that

[@theketaminekid1241]

This was one of the worst scenes in the season, if not the show. Mallory is SO out of character and stupid here. It's so frustrating.

[@spiderfreak35]

@@theketaminekid1241 no argument here

[@tobsonasanya4765]

She was desperate​@@theketaminekid1241

[@proskeptical789]

There’s a nice subtle detail there she didn’t splatter on the wall like the stuntman did earlier when he told Ryan to use more force. He still tried to just push her away

[@silence_dais]

It's understandable too, he just did what any kid would do when given that much to hear. He just wanted her to stop but his emotions made him lose control.

[@LordVentality]

its cuz she aint dead. she is just knocked she will be back i bet 50 bucks.

[@kingstarscream3807]

@@LordVentality You can see her neckbones protruding against her skin. She dead.

[@ant2901]

@@LordVentalitydid you not see her neck. There’s bone poking out lol she dead dead and he didn’t even look remorseful

[@LordVentality]

@@ant2901 okay I did not notice the damage.

[@jankitharun.d5305]

Ryan about to be grounded by Butcher with his new powers

[@johnwayne8494]

Butcher is going to give Ryan his worm(FBI open up)

[@MegaGoku49]

​@@johnwayne8494nah if anything they're going after Karl Urban for slapping a underage female in the face with his man chess tentacles.. didn't you watch the episode?

[@excalibur2596]

​@@johnwayne8494☠️☠️☠️

[@thewolf9851]

​@@johnwayne8494Don't be like frenchie

[@Jorod444]

​@@thewolf9851 what do u mean?

[@Changed.User100]

Butcher realizing he maybe shouldnt have saved this kid from soldier boy.

[@elpopman2055]

You know that it was butcher and grace fault for using Ryan.

[@ivanagustinortiz5237]

Butcher acting like they enemy all along.

[@ci7210]

Like if Maeve could survive Soldier Boy's blast. So could Ryan. Like Homelander is dead, and Ryan lives a normal life.

[@davecullins1606]

Ryan is weirdly unphased by just accidentally having killed someone he knew

[@itmare7353]

because he was being threatened by her, he was probably in shock, not only did he kill grace, he also had learned that his biological dad is a mass murderer and that the only reason he himself is alive is because homelander raped Ryan's mom, like, I don't know about you, but I would also be numb to everything around me for a little while after finding that out

[@dassagichkeinem4454]

A person that tried to enslave or put him down. Apparently he never really knew her.

[@dayschange2]

I think it’s a combination of how sinister the situation looked from his perspective plus his dad’s influence. Ryan’s just a kid after all, and he was a sheltered one at that. 😔

[@akukarki9094]

@@dayschange2it was sinister tho

[@dayschange2]

@@akukarki9094 Oh, 100%.

[@quocanhhbui8271]

Ryan literally said: “i will be back i just need time to think” and Grace being classic cia agent

[@rumpleforeskin833]

She probably knew he wasn’t going to come back. And she didn’t wasn’t to risk Ryna telling HL what they told him. She was still wrong for how she went about it tho

[@Frozenies]

@@rumpleforeskin833 he probably would have come back, ryan hasn't lied to them in the past at all and the emotional manipulation from Grace did not help. It just came off as them trying to do the same thing Vought did to Homelander.

[@tylermcclain5332]

@@rumpleforeskin833 Butcher should of just told her to Get TF out

[@TheLivingThanos]

Every time somebody thinks Ryan will be a good person and do good..he screws all of that up in seconds

[@chrisk.7418]

Good person? Someone hasn't watched The Boys

[@newhybrid101]

Her fault,he is still an emotional teenager with super strength

[@kingstarscream3807]

It was self-defense.

[@plug8613]

ryan still has morals and feelings LMAO

[@ivanagustinortiz5237]

They're pushing him and he screws up because of it, and then they act like "ughhh he's a super, he can't be saved". It's getting annoying at this point.

[@EdmundLoh]

Mallory gotta take the L on this one. Boy has incomprehensible power and unstable emotions, she should have quit while ahead.

[@warrioremperor6320]

Bro you sound like a woman you should get transgender surgery to look the part

[@lolamelola7352]

But the kid dont shoe regret for killing his "aunt"

[@zashgekido5616]

@@lolamelola7352 Same Aunt that was about to drug him and lock his ass in a box

[@itdobelikedattho8112]

Omg this slang I can't

[@waterdrop2842]

@@itdobelikedattho8112 ?? They just said "take the L" which means to lose. Not that hard to figure out.

[@Wolverine1987]

Even more proof Soldier Boy was wronged 😅

[@JasonCan-wp2fu]

Bro was right all along

[@alatusedits]

Soldier goat for a reason

[@GhostwalkerSparrow]

The best character

[@promeneuzivotu117]

"Fuck you!You are weaker than he is"

[@memememe7081]

Hoping they don’t fuck up his character by siding with homelander

[@Gabriel-bx3nu]

“The I told you” doesn’t even have to be said at the end 😂

[@michaeltrinh4394]

"You're going to lock me in here unless I agree to be your weapon, just like what you did to my dad." He may be getting played by all sides, but he's spitting fax.

[@culleno872]

What a fantastic line, so glad he picked up on what was actually happening right away, I know the writers of this show get a lot of shit, but I thought having Ryan not be fucking clueless as to what was happening was refreshing, and it’s really hard to argue with what he said; that’s EXACTLY what they were going to do to him😂 one of my first thoughts was if Mallory HAD hit that button and killed herself and butcher, who the fuck was gonna wake up and train/ look after Ryan? Those two were pretty much the only two on the ‘good guys’ squad who are even remotely close to him

[@CreationSGame01]

I am soooo happy they written this line in the final. I’ll say it once and I’ll say it again. No one is a good guy in this series it’s time to stop pretending. They have all done wrong just like Homelander one way or another.

[@heckingbamboozled8097]

@@culleno872 Yes, I completely agree. They wrote him like a HUMAN instead of the stereotype of a child. People seem to forget that younger people are still humans, and many are a lot more intelligent than people give them credit for imo

[@Xoe_1571]

At least he learned to control his super strength no more wall splat 😁

[@OliverRedit]

He still did to hard

[@darkswords147]

She didn’t explode for dramatic effect

[@jamerialwhite3694]

Respectable characters don't get the gruesome deaths lol

[@ishe_we_zimbabwe]

​@@jamerialwhite3694 Neuman

[@naufalmEZa]

​@@jamerialwhite3694Raynor went out gruesomely, and what did she do again? Almost felt like her death was all for shock.

[@rektbones5188]

First, Ryan managed to hear the whisperings, the heartbeat of Butcher and even managed to use X-Ray vision to calculate the walls thickness saying the walls are 6 feet thick. Ryan surely is starting to have his powers more and more stronger

[@markrichard4939]

Grace, a government agent, just said to a child 'kill your dad or we'll force you.' If Ryan attempted to walk past, she would've flooded the room (like she threatened she would) and Ryan would've woken up in a secure underground facility where he'd be 'trained'. And by that I mean held against his will in an 8x8 room for several months while they attempt to break his mind and refashion him into a weapon, a Homelander that is under government control. Ryan is the victim here.

[@aidmancastrol1908]

Fr, I seriously can't comprehend how people walk away from this scene thinking "Ryan is the next Homelander!" Or "Soldier Boy is right!"

[@asmracc9342]

@@aidmancastrol1908 Soldier Boy was right, Ryan should've been sacrificed if you believe in utilitarian morals like most people. But yes, he was also the victim here

[@entersadman7226]

Ryan really broke Butcher so we got a third villain next season

[@naufalmEZa]

Villains don't necessarily mean antagonist, he'd be out for blood with SB and HL for sure.

[@ivanagustinortiz5237]

They kinda broke Ryan when they basically told him "your father is a monster that raped your mother and you will have to end him"

[@shaochiavang]

​@@naufalmEZanah, butcher is the main villain going into s5.

[@nippsliter3318]

Anti-Hero??? Isn't he based off the Punisher?

[@jancarlosmanon4556]

​@@shaochiavangsadly yeah, he will be the main villain and you can bet a train, sage and Marie will be key to stop him, with how woke prime is, you can't be surprised

[@agasthya9128]

Soldier boy after seeing butcher in season5: “I fcuking told you”

[@christophermunoz2004]

The idiot played her hand WAY too soon...

[@Woodnsus]

Running out of time does that.

[@PawiYT]

Ryan wasn’t gonna stay with Butcher lol , even if Grace didn’t tell the truth and let Butcher continue

[@Trentonsmith24]

@@PawiYTNo he would’ve been willing too or else he wouldn’t have been there.

[@tenjenk]

Too soon? There was no fucking time left. Kid needed to fucking step up

[@dorianleakey]

@@PawiYT Yes, he was, that was what the writing indicated, what all the things the characters said indicated. You are ignoring the dialogue.

[@tevinngeleshi9297]

Damn now all hope is lost, Ryan is gonna turn out to be the thing Becca never wanted him to be, his father.

[@johnwayne8494]

Nah the showrunners don't have the balls to do that, he'll tun out good in the end somehow

[@sinfuladam]

Not quite because the scene later, Ryan runs from his father too. think of it like this. Both sides are giving him good points, but also giving him really bad points if they just let the kid decide for himself where his loyalties lie, then it would be easier on him.

[@sinfuladam]

@@johnwayne8494 true he’s probably gonna turn good but the term good in the boys is a bit complicated considering we have someone like Billy Butcher leading the charge. There are good people in the boys it’s just how far are they willing to go to maintain that level of goodness. Honestly I see Ryan as legit hope for that world but just as easily he can be. It’s destruction on a whim, but that really all depends on butcher and how he handles him.

[@newkiller4457]

@@sinfuladamimagine season 5 of the boys ends being a brutal battle royale between soldier boy, ryan, billy, and soldier boy? Man would season 5 be rlly brutal.

[@Anthonycheesman33]

Nobody in the boys is good

[@RedShogun13]

I love how everyone thought Ryan turning on Homelander would be Homelander’s breaking point. Instead Ryan winds up being Butcher’s.

[@gabrielaj2066]

And now butcher has to make the virus airborne!

[@milklander847]

I don't understand why so many people are insulting Ryan again. He was forced to do shit he didn't want to. Damn, he found out a minute ago that Homelander raped Becca that Homelander killed a lot of people, he's a little boy, let him think and process the situation, he even says he needs a break to think, he thinks more rationally than Grace. Grace wanted to press the red button, damn he would be just as screwed as Homelander or Soldier Boys. He wouldn't be free. Maybe Ryan didn't want to kill Grace, maybe Ryan still can't properly assess his strength, it was also a situation where he had to act quickly and instinctively, he had no other choice. Homelander and Butcher wanted to win Ryan's heart, but in the end neither succeeded. I wouldn't even be surprised if he is the one who stops the war later, because maybe he knows both sides and realizes that Homelander himself is just a little kid who needs love. I think in the end Homelander and Butcher will die, but Ryan will become the true hero that America never got. Who knows, maybe Butcher and Homelander will come to their senses at some point, but I think they will still fight each other because it's way too late for reconciliation.

[@ramdejin8426]

Becca not vicky

[@bonoshii]

Ryan knows his strength. Ryan got emotional and decided to kill the person that he considered his aunt. He could have walked past her, but that push was intentional and he showed no remorse for it No other choice is stretching it

[@TimSlee1]

He's too scared of Homelander to fight him, if you can't beat em' then join them I guess.

[@DamXOien3902]

Yeah there’s no sugarcoating Ryan’s actions he knew he could easily kill her and still decided to push her he’s a murderer just like his pops the better not try and redeem him next season

[@arthurcosta1657]

I know these MF are delusional or soemthing

[@everettenjeze6276]

3:25 had to be one of the most bone chilling shots in the show. All of butchers hopes and dreams of making Becca proud and protecting him and having hope that supes truly are human like regular people we’re all butchered in one swift move. His greatest fears are now at the fore front and all he sees is blood. The supes took away people he loved so he is taking everything away from them. Such a tragic character.

[@chuckingreaper8654]

You see, it isn’t the overwhelming information dump Grace did on Ryan that bothers me. It’s that she planned to imprison Ryan unless he agreed to do whatever they wanted. Ryan knew what Vought did to his dad and is aware how it messed him up in some way. Now the Federal Government wanted to do the same thing to him. The fact Grace actually thought it was a smart idea to hold Ryan hostage until he complied with their demands was so short-sightedly stupid that I need a brain cell donation to recover. There was no need to be desperate enough to risk it all in this moment. Homelander wasn’t keeping Ryan under house arrest. They would have several means to convince Ryan on his terms. I feel they rushed this to make Butcher give Joe control. This is entirely a stupid scene for all parties involved.

[@thetheory6159]

Agreed. I watched this scene and the first time I saw it, I thought I was looking at a rejected scene. Those are not the actions of a woman who's been trained to keep her head cool under stress, those are the actions of a plot device.

[@spiritualjalen220]

Very true this whole scene could have been handled completely differently in fact butchers transition to joe Kessler could have been done after the boys got captured by vought but then again whether or not neumans death triggered the hunting of the boys or not is tricky to say but it could’ve been postponed at least until after Ryan left

[@michaelholland1936]

@@chuckingreaper8654 yeah you kept Homelander captive to have him do everything you what you'll seeing how that worked out.

[@starsilvaX]

I wouldn’t say it was rushed i mean they were running out of time that can happen during stressful times like that

[@patrickbeaton4827]

​​@@thetheory6159 Mallory's actions could be explained by her already being emotionally compromised here. Her overbearing behaviour is due to her still grieving her grandchildren and spending so much time with Ryan. Also, the stakes here are basically existential for civilisation since they have no other way to kill Homelander, who is mentally unstable and currently attempting to overthrow the government, so I think it makes more sense for Mallory to panic and threaten Ryan when he started to leave.

[@KiEntertainer]

I’m legitimately concerned with how many people can’t empathize with Ryan here. He was literally begging her not to lock him up and even said he just needed a second and would be back. Then she was literally about to gas him and Ryan was freezing out he would not be able to leave if they got him. Now how cold he acted after killing her was admittedly a red flag but hopefully it was just shock

[@RJALEXANDER777]

I can buy that Ryan isn't the highest empathy person in the world given who his dad and grandad are (his great grandad was a prick as well). Even if he is genuinely trying there's a degree of nature there. But he's not entirely lost his way.

[@joshzitovsky9205]

Couldn't agree more

[@purplequeen833]

​@@RJALEXANDER777it's just he cried more for that stuntman than he did her who he called aunt

[@RJALEXANDER777]

@@purplequeen833 stuntman didn't try and cage him up like a dog.

[@purplequeen833]

@@RJALEXANDER777 I know but she was still someone he loved, I would except a bit more a reaction vs a guy you worked with a few times

[@alexmarrero5837]

The face Ryan makes when Grace basically tells him he’s a product of Rape is sad. Sad knowing that you were never really wanted and that you’re basically the son of Satan is heart breaking.

[@annoyingcat5328]

They made Mallory an idiot to continue the plot 🤦🏽‍♂️

[@sonicjamal230]

fr, but how could the plot have ended if she wasn't such an idiot here?

[@Anna-sd4zl]

I mean when people are desperate for something to happen against something in power they can get pretty irrational,grace was clearly desperate to make Ryan understand his dad is a monster at the moment instead of waiting patiently as butcher planned .

[@gabagool6242]

@@Anna-sd4zlIf she’d shut her mouth and let Butcher say his peace first i guarantee none of it would have happened. Ryan even said he’d be back and he just wanted to think. Mallory was far more composed when faced with the man that vaporized her grandchildren. Definitely seems like the writers just needed the plot to happen, even if it meant making Grace act wildly out of character.

[@Lauderdizzle]

Kid's doing a good acting job, I gotta say.

[@Moe_Lester_fromUptwn]

He's grown

[@SSJKDotsSanctum]

Ryan slowly becoming Brightburn boy

[@Mordeairayne]

Hell no

[@amitkenan3878]

He also escaped Homelander at the end

[@SSJKDotsSanctum]

@@amitkenan3878 True and now Homelander running to his daddy Soldier Boy since his son left him again.

[@RayaneTawil]

​@@SSJKDotsSanctum I think they're gonna spend half of next season trying to get ryan or soldier boy on their side again (soldier boy not too likely)

[@someperson4865]

Brandon would absolutely flame Ryan since he's literally an alien like superman lol.

[@kingpatrick7730]

They should of waited with Ryan to gain his trust then grace wouldn't even be dead right now

[@VivisDoomsday]

They didn't really have time to do that. Butcher was already trying to take it slow with Ryan, but that trust wasn't building fast enough. They knew January 6th was "doomsday" essentially for a while now and Butcher himself was under the impression he has no time. Since this scene takes place on that day, it was now or never. She knows deep down Ryan still has a heart and loves his mother, so she tried to play that card to demonize his father and justify the plan to murder Homelander. Obviously that backfired but they ran out of time and options.

[@Omallo-qp4oi]

​@tablesalt2628He didn't need to be actually stronger than his father, he only needed to be ready to kill him. Had he known how to fight and Homelander would stand no chance against him even if he was stronger

[@VivisDoomsday]

@tablesalt2628 Not Ryan alone, but a suped up Butcher and Ryan vs Homelander. Or just suped up Butcher vs Homelander. It is a long shot and Butcher even critiqued Kessler's thinking earlier this season about that very same thing, but Kessler made it clear what needs to happen with Ryan. He's either used as a weapon towards Homelander or he needs to be killed, and to Grace and Butcher's credit, their plan was intentionally crafted with that in mind. Ryan is already strong, he doesn't need years of training, he just needs to be convinced that his father is evil and that he's the only one that is capable of putting a stop to it. He was strong enough to kill Stormfront who was one of the strongest supes, at a younger age. He's the closest thing to Homelander besides Soldier Boy.

[@Omallo-qp4oi]

@tablesalt2628 Homelander is not that much powerful than Ryan

[@VivisDoomsday]

@tablesalt2628 We don't know the extent of Butcher's power yet anyways. We finally got one glimpse of it at the very end of the season and it's used to rip the shreds out of a supe that was basically invulnerable. I think 2v1 is better than 1v2, even if the extra one is Ryan, but that's just me!

[@RJTheCerealGuy]

I think personally for s5, homelander is gonna get wiped mid way through the season which will be a huge shocker. Final villain will be butcher and he’ll be killing the boys, gonna be insane

[@marburg6005]

They certainly seem to be going that comic ending route where butcher becomes the bad guy and forces hughie to kill him

[@SaberRexZealot]

I think that’s a better direction to go honestly. Homelander’s fantastic as a bad guy but Butcher becoming a despot with warped ideals is a lot more tragic.

[@leonardo25gabriel]

There's no reason for him to kill The Boys (just Kimiko and Annie).

[@RandomVideoCommenterOME]

Grace in the earlier episodes was cold, calculating and seemed to know what what the best course of action was, even if she didn't come up with the idea initially. I can buy that here she's emotional and not quite thinking straight, but to trauma dump a kid, then threaten him with a literal gas chamber and continue to try and stop him from leaving is just.... The dumbest thing a character like her could possibly do, its almost insulting to the character work they'd done before this point.

[@peteparkerson1004]

I agreed, this scene she's just out of the character no calm and talking speedrun non-stop to ryan more than that kid could handle it

[@habaneropepper]

She was running out of time she was desperate

[@jayyy1677]

Desperation does that to a person

[@warrioremperor6320]

Bad writing

[@Krunchyz]

Considering homelander was about to take over the world by killing the president, calling her desperate is an understatement

[@noahmpmonod]

Now Butcher will just be supes-killing machine

[@excalibur2596]

Yeah. Can't wait for that.

[@gabrielaj2066]

That’s too bad that they’re saving it for next season. I wanted the season to end not have another cliffhanger.

[@davidraen7017]

She tried to emotionally manipulate him and he was not having it.

[@noelahg79]

This is what happened. Vought got to Homelander too early for him to realize his psychological indoctrination. Everyone kinda forgets, Homelander COULD have been Superman. Vought turned him into what he has become.

[@Mcsnickers_7]

Lmao, manipulate him? Where's the lie? I don't really understand his character. Even after finding out the horrible things Homelander did to his mother, how can he still wish to be with him? He wasn't even angry.

[@davidraen7017]

@@Mcsnickers_7 Manipulations do not require lies, lady is a government spook and she was also threatening to kidnap him along with her "heartfelt" pleas. Butcher was trying to manipulate Ryan as well, but he knew the long game had to be played.

[@magnumopus5661]

That is what they did to Homelander. They made him a monster, and failed to slay him. Now they're helping turn Ryan dark as well.

[@PsychicJaguar19]

So unfortunate, he even said “I’ll be back I just need to think” Grace really let her emotions get the best of her and it cost her life.

[@JasonPeters-s9z]

Wow yeah I honestly missed that line. What a bad scene

[@Gabriel-bx3nu]

Ryan is still young but he already saw his dad lasering someone to pieces so even he has to know it’s truth why did he still thinks it’s a lie😂

[@ShazzledWolf32]

5 stages of grief

[@dablazingbryan5559]

@@ShazzledWolf32and he’s still stuck in denial months/years later.

[@Knowledge12370]

Like father like grandfather lmao

[@Rl55322]

@@dablazingbryan5559yeah cuz he’s terrified of his dad, and denying that he’s evil is way easier than grappling with that fact

[@logeyperogi1805]

He didn’t really think it was a lie But he was being overwhelmed with information on how his dad wasn’t just some casual murderer, he was a straight up monster who ruined lives And then he got told that he would be the weapon to kill Homelander That’s a LOT for a kid to process, and it put him in shock The real stupidity was on Grace’s part, because she tried to trap him, when all Ryan needed was some time to think, to process all this new info, and once he’d processed it, he would’ve returned and probably agreed to help them kill Homelander By trapping him, Grace only made herself out to be another enemy to him and further put him in shock Now Ryan likely sees Butcher as a traitor, and Homelander as a monster In her poor decision making, Grace has isolated Ryan from everyone, and the last thing a kid needs to feel is that they can’t trust anyone

[@Vincentjmeade]

I feel for Ryan in this scene. He already has the weight of the responsibility of being as powerful as he is. To then told to save the world from his own dad.

[@alexsolomon8127]

if there's a running theme to this entire series, it's "the consequenses of not owning up to your mistakes"

[@excalibur2596]

Grace just threatened and forced Ryan to comply without showing him evidence against his father to convince him however much she could.

[@justinzinkowski5933]

Did he give her a chance?

[@excalibur2596]

@@justinzinkowski5933 Yes he did in fact. It's Grace's fault. She just had to play it slow, not threaten Ryan, show him the evidence one by one and give him complete freedom over if he wants to turn on his father or not.

[@joel5135]

​@@justinzinkowski5933He gave her Multiple warnings

[@robboss204]

@@excalibur2596 ryan already knew how psychotic his father is he witnessed it time and time again no evidence is needed

[@excalibur2596]

@@robboss204 Ryan asked for evidence when grace accused Homelander of the flight 37 incident and other of his evil acts. Clearly Ryan doesn't have the full picture on Homelander. The acts that he does know about he thinks are justified like Homelander killing the guy who threw a soda can on him

[@justinguyos5476]

Wow, and Ryan did not even feel that bad about killing her like he did with Koy. Ultimately, she was just an obstacle to him and had to go. So much for having faith in him, Butcher.

[@maniac7452]

Duh she set him up in an ambush, tried to force him to become a child soldier who will have to kill his own dad, and then tried to lock him up when he wanted to leave. Ryan even asked her several times to let him go but Grace kept threatening him. He was totally entitled not to feel sorry for her.

[@estebanbr7596]

You crazy... She tried to kidnap him and black mail him into killing someone after proving she only cared about using him.

[@nosireyessir]

homelander aint his dad lol kids dont understand it but one day they would realize as they grow older

[@RayaneTawil]

Honestly here it was 100% self defense she even tried to kidnap him

[@berserk9564]

You all act like Ryan is a small ordinary baby without superpower. People be lack of empathy toward old folks and over simpathy to childs

[@Evoker23-lx8mb]

When Butcher’s your voice of reason, you’ve dug your own grave.

[@efikiriki5158]

He didn't even shed one tear. His Homelander side is showing.

[@BeeSweet16]

He asked to be let go and said he would come back. That's abuse, blocking someone's way. He needed a breather.

[@jhedatitan4228]

Soldier Boy had the right mindset but everyone betrayed him 😂.

[@TheGreatWhiteCount]

You can't blame Grace for this, this really was a last resort. They thought Homelander was going to go full animal. Butcher is like Venom now, him and Kessler are going to become The Butcher.

[@Destructocorps]

Grace was stupid here, she should have known better. All she did was make herself seem manipulative and untrustworthy, and unsurprisingly it backfired. There's no justification for her actions given the fact Ryan always responded badly to being 'forced' and well to being given the opportunity to make his own decision and given respect since he was taken

[@elpopman2055]

Grace was completely stupid for dumping this all in a kid and cornering him when it's clear to him that they are simply using him The same way that used homelander. Trash writing

[@alatusedits]

Grace was dumb in this situation. She should have had more emotional intelligence, and ryan is a kid so he's bound to be emotional

[@Randomgirl3468]

Imprisoning ryan is a horrible idea and would have never worked

[@TheGreatWhiteCount]

@AryReviewFilm I think she was shitting bricks thinking he was going to tell his father and probably in a race against time with him getting into the Whitehouse, she felt it was needed then more than ever

[@MiamiGameHunter]

For people saying this was out of character for Grace, I think the answer is actually quite simple: she was scared and jumped the gun. She thought Homelander's takeover of the government was about to go down, so she thought they didn't have time for the slow cook.

[@justinsmith4618]

Nah....for being his surrogate grandma this was totally out of character.

[@AB-zl4nh]

Ryan could have moved past her or pushed he away gently. He decided to use violence. Just like his Dad.

[@newhybrid101]

He is a 12 year old

[@thorodinson7259]

​@@newhybrid101yeah that should make him not to use violence

[@littlescruby]

I don't think it's that simple. Remember what he did to Koy? That crazy strength was him trying to hold back. Considering Grace didn't turn into a splatter like Koy, Ryan was probably him doing everything he could to control himself, but a lack of experience plus the explosion of emotion and adrenaline going on had him accidentally use too much force. I don't think he intended to kill her

[@elpopman2055]

That tends to happen you mistreat and use a Traumatized child with superpowers

[@calvintyler9281]

​@thorodinson7259 no it's actually quite the opposite. Never speak again.

[@robboss204]

Grace was dumb but ryan's reaction felt off tbh. He killed someone close to him and did not even seem to be bothered by it and also why does he even find it hard to believe that his father is rapist and a monster he is a firsthand witness to his father being a pyschopath

[@Deadshot4396]

Because the apple doesn’t fall far from the tree

[@IwinMahWay]

He thinks that all the love shown ever by them was to lure him and turn him into a weapon. It all became fake.

[@VivisDoomsday]

I think they never really have a scene where Homelander is being a monster (by the Homelander's standards WE know) in front of Ryan. Homelander was initially sympathetic to Ryan when he accidentally killed that stunt guy in public. From Ryan's view, the worst he's seen is that time he lasered that guy, but that was out of "self-defense", people cheered when it happened, so of course a kid might overlook that and feel like THAT murder was justified. Despite that, a rapist is a whole different level of a piece of shit that you would never think or hope your father was. Not only a rapist, but a person who raped your mother. Yeah, I would think a kid would find that hard to believe or accept at first. That wasn't Ryan's first murder, either. Homelander told Ryan the truth of how he was raised, and I bet this whole situation was feeling similar to that. He feels justified and enraged for doing what he had to do, the people he thought he could trust want to turn him into a weapon and turn him against his own father. He's conflicted, he doesn't know what good and bad are anymore.

[@Filthygaysex]

@@VivisDoomsday When he went with butcher in s2 his dad was covered in blood and guts lol what do u mean

[@saltrxn]

The poor guy is scared and betrayed. He fled his dad first and now he was fleeing the scene quickly to avoid Butcher’s reaction. He saw what being trapped in a concrete room, trained to be a weapon did to his father and he’s scared he’d end up the same.

[@cdoze8183]

I thought Ryan was there when Maeve threatened Homelander with the Flight 37 tape?

[@zzzzjohnnyzzzz6209]

He was but she never called it flight 37 and Ryan couldn’t see the phone

[@ShadowKamehameha32]

He was there, but he wasn't focusing on that kid was terrified.

[@TankGamingADHD]

i think the kid was more focused on his dead mom tbh

[@raftlack4326]

lots of excuces when the real explanation is the writters kinda forgot about it lmao

[@beastedninja3757]

​@@raftlack4326 literally a panicked kid who didnt see the phone and was terrified his dad whos covered in blood would kill him right after killing the only real family hes ever had but ight

[@dylanrivera2244]

That kid is the living definition of a burden.

[@moe5020]

I mean not really they are trying to use him to kill homelander. They are a burden on him

[@Knowledge12370]

​@@moe5020the worst moment in the show (butcher attacking soldier boy) happened due to him definitely a burden lmao

[@reddrahvett623]

Kid has literally not done shit. Everything that's happened to him was not his fault. Y'all are wacky as fuck.

[@moe5020]

@@Knowledge12370 That was butchers fault for pushing him away also they were gonna kill his dad of course so he lasered Soldier Boy what did they think was gonna happen how is he being a burden by defending himself? it's also bad writing they shouldn't have had such a bad plan and Starlight and MM shouldn't have broken the team up, maeve and butcher shouldn't have just watched it happen why didn't they grab HL instead of having soldier boy line up both ryan and homelander? which is dumb anyway because r u telling me if butcher didn't turn on SB that homelander was so distracted that he'd ignore SB and let himself get blasted lol? and does Soldier Boy not care about his grandson? he literally just met him wouldn't SB want to find out more about Ryan? Also on top of that the set up is dumb Homelander just checks ryan like the fight is on pause he would have either immediately flew into soldier boy and smashed him into the pavement at Mach 2 or grabbed Ryan and flew away this is homelander we are talking about.

[@ANP4158]

The look of Butcher’s face when he saw Grace’s body like that 😢

[@Aegon1]

Man I felt bad for Ryan, with his parental situation and not controlling his powers, but he killed someone who basically was an aunt to him when he totally didn’t need to

[@Ss-rx9bx]

yeah same... he lost his mom

[@BMosby]

"Just like they did to my dad" The moment he realizes homelander wanted best for him all along

[@clementnade972]

Ryan has a point. They overstepped thinking he shouldn’t get to choose.

[@Joker_edits762]

Ryan is a future Homelander. It is known. Because he didn't even regret Grace's death. * Butcher made a mistake by stopping soldier boy.

[@OrionEnt]

I find it interesting that Ryan finds himself in between Black (Grace) and White (Butcher) when they both try their hardest to convince him to stay with them. Grace does her utmost to manipulate Ryan and even makes a subtle threat to lock him up if he doesn't comply, all of this after she breaks down at the recent turn of events and gives into the supe paranoia - which you could say fits into Kessler's angle entirely. However she's treating him as a weapon and not a troubled kid who's going back & forth with so many people telling him what to do and what he should believe instead of giving him the freedom that he WISHES his father had at that age. Butcher doesn't succumb to his fears but he's aware of how much the truth will impact Ryan. He's also doing his best to be supportive of him by apologizing after Grace spills the ugly truth about his conception, even when he tells the boy that he should stop his father from becoming a tyrannical supe, he tells Ryan that he's "strong" and likely holds firm to that belief even if the boy doesn't believe it himself. It's only until he sees Grace accidentally killed (just like becca ironically enough) that he finally falters and gives in to Kessler. And then there's Homelander during the confrontation between him and Ryan. If you look at that scene closely, Homelander is quick to disparage Butcher and claim that he's not his real father - HE is. But in doing so, the mask he so carefully crafted around his son starts to slip off just enough to see the ugly side of him as Ryan stares defiantly at the man who tried so hard to mold him into his image. There is a real possibility that if Homelander didn't spot the picture in Ryan's backpack, he wouldn't have been so emotionally unstable at a time when Ryan likely needed answers for everything that's been dumped on him so far. With the truth in hand and both Homelander & Butcher having too many secrets that can't seem to stay buried, I think Ryan will probably focus on what his mother wanted for him and go forward with what her expectations of him would be. The main reason being is that with her she never left him with so many questions about what kind of person he should be and how he should think about other people - Supe or not. Just a mom doing her best to support the one child she never expected to bring into the world.

[@silence_dais]

I'm sorry, I'm blaming Grace for this one. She trauma dumped on Ryan and put too much pressure on him. Yes he's a Supe but he's still a kid and he's not going to be alright with the idea of fighting his own dad, even if he knows his dad is a monster. Plus the training they'd have to do with him will take more time than they actually have if Homelander is going to take another shot at the president.

[@connoc5078]

Her own fault, really. Pushing all of that onto an emotionally unstable kid and wanting him to be a weapon controlled by the government and even trying to kidnap him.

[@justinmoody9164]

“Designed to hold people like you” …. To me that’s where she fucked up. Isolating him, referring to him as the “other” and threatening to kill him. All of the other things she said overwhelmed him but those words proved to him that HL was right, she’s NOT his family… And that was her fault

[@debrachambers1304]

Why the FUCK would they not have already told him that about Homelander!? During the time he spent with Grace I'd want to make sure he had as MUCH reason as possible to stay away from Homelander.

[@doodgeslagenmug]

2:59 I love how he moves like homelander here suggesting he actually did become his father.

[@C.I.A_hq]

Kessler & Soldier boy: "How many times do we have to teach you this lesson old man!?" 😂

[@HenryDaBoss179]

1:36 she messed up hard on this one. Obviously it was a mistake for her to lay all that out on Ryan at once, but the even bigger mistake was not letting him leave. He literally said "i'll be back i just need to think" and of course he'd be back since he knows Butcher is dying. If they just let him leave and come back maybe he would've been more inclined to fight his dad especially with what he knows now and after his dad's outburst from earlier. Making him feel like he's trapped and doesn't have a choice was the biggest mistake.

[@PepeValenzuela]

Idk how or why, but a government officer from the cia using stupid methods that break morality and common sense didn't feel that out of place to me. I think it's why I wasn't surprised by her decision of transforming butcher into bait for ryan (even if it wasn't intended) and how I didn't find half of this stuff stupid like other people say

[@ecthox-1mork909]

Honestly, I'm surprised Ryan didn't already know about all the things Mallory sprung on him here - they should've told him all this practically right after Season 2. If they'd told him those things much earlier, gradually and with care, then Ryan would've been able to soak it up and process it earlier and he'd have never been swayed to Homelander's side - delaying it like this, like IRL foolish parents taking the coward's or the idiot's way out when it comes to shielding their kids from grief, just hurt Ryan even more down the line and made things even worse.

[@poke8735]

Ryan even said he would come back he just needed time to think. He should NOT have pushed her that hard, he knows how strong he is.

[@LordZandersSoapbox4811]

Grace set up an “Invisible” situation and it didn’t play out the way she wanted it to go. She took a high stack’s gamble and lost. You can’t expect an innocent child to become your assassin. Especially, when the child has superhuman powers and is untrained and lacks any real exposure to the dark side of human nature. You can’t guilt or ask that of a child even if their birth father is a monster himself.

[@The_Real_Priest]

Someone else said this already and I will say it again. It’s a constant “it’s so over. NEVERMIND WE BACK!!!” with Ryan

[@MrDibara]

_Adolescence, am I right?_ 😒 GOD, were we a mess in our decisions back then...

[@daeltgryn05]

If he sides with his dad now, its really over lol

[@J_C_CH]

I find it interesting how their roles were reversed here. For years Mallory considered Butcher to be a loose canon who didn't know how to control his emotions, but here when Butcher is trying to be rational, she's the one letting her emotions get the best of her.

[@jm-nv5bl]

You can't blame ryan for this. Any other kid would probably do the same when scared and feel cornerd

[@xavierhouston4650]

Only dumb ones.

[@arandomt-9056]

Least they don't cause your spinal cord connecting to your brain snap

[@justinzinkowski5933]

Kill someone and walk away with an expression open to interpretation? He didnt seem bothered and kinda seemed satisfied

[@justinzinkowski5933]

Kill someone and walk away with an expression open to interpretation? He didnt seem bothered and kinda seemed satisfied

[@errwhattheflip]

@@justinzinkowski5933 Seems more like he's repressing his feelings on it

[@darnellmanoto4152]

Ryan just needs time to process it all, and figure out where he stands amongst all of this. As for Butcher and Homelander, they have become two sides of the same coin. Theyre both monsters now. Season 5 is going to be INSANE.

[@TheGuessMan]

Thanks for telling the truth Grace ❤

[@RyanW2763]

When I saw the final scene of episode 4 I thought that was the scariest scene we've ever seen in this entire show, and it might still be. But this scene has a whole new meaning to fear. Just the sadness in Grace's death only to have Kressler behind him instills a fear of the unknown. Beautiful writing.

[@RIPJAY23]

I do agree with you guys saying they should’ve let homelander and Ryan get killed by soldier boy, but Ryan doesn’t deserve death the boy didn’t ask to be in this mess! We have to think about the trauma he’s going thru tryna find hisself..

[@TheGreatSeraphim]

Kid asks to leave and she threatens to cage him. Yeah he's going to react violently in self preservation.

[@Rogue_Arrow]

Butcher is a warlock, and Kessler is his Fiend patron.

[@Skinnny_]

That soldier boy betrayal looks even worse now dawg💀

[@tylerwade6539]

In the end it wasn't Butcher who fucked it up, it was Grace.

[@Dragon-pm3kh]

0:52 I can’t imagine how it feels finding out that’s how you were conceived.

[@CthulhuOnCam]

A lot of us are gonna talk about how Grace fucked up here (and she did) but Im gonna give big props to the Actor. She really made me feel like Grace was panicking, that she felt out of time and that things where all collapsing. She fumbled it but the actor made it clear to me why she did and did so very well

[@Mannyhdz0052]

Damn and Butcher said in the last episode that he had faith in ryan, and now his faith is replaced with nothingness.

[@torquetheprisoner]

at least Ryan lasted longer than he did in the comic

[@HaloMan-813]

Much better, he didn't even have a name, he was officially called " Black Noirs son" lmao

[@jaylenlenear3944]

Theres no way you can justify mallory actions to trap him.. He literally told them hed be back!!

[@friendlyfire2374]

Butcher was looking at grace like “yooooo man shut the f up!!!!! You’re going to ruin everything!!!”