The challenge of nutrition science - Diet Doctor Podcast

Nutrition science is difficult to conduct and often even more difficult to interpret. That can make it confusing for individuals deciding what to eat or clinicians deciding what diet to recommend. Science journalist Gary Taubes and nutritional epidemiologist Deirdre Tobias provide different perspectives on the strength and future of nutrition science.
Table of content
0:00 Introduction
3:12 Gary Taubes
5:13 NuSI and the motivation behind it
11:09 The significance of the studies from NuSI
19:09 Challenges with the energy balance study
26:34 Polarization in the world of nutrition
32:26 The difficulties of conducting a nutrition science research
43:16 Learnings from past histories of NuSI
49:52 Deirdre Tobias, PhD
51:58 Nutritional epidemiology vs randomized control trials
57:21 The strength of the evidence and recommendation
1:06:31 The long-withstanding challenges of nutrition
1:15:50 Conclusion
Subscribe to our channel if you don't want to miss any of our videos: kzbin.info...
About us:
DietDoctor.com is the world's number one low-carb site. Follow us for delicious recipes, meal plans and tools to make your low-carb and keto lifestyle simple. But this KZbin channel does not contain all our videos!

[@dawnelder9046]

My husband had 3 strokes and we found out he was diabetic 13 years ago. For eight months I put him on the diet they gave me. Every 3 weeks both he and his blood work were worse. It hit me that the nutritional advice that had failed me for decades was failing my husband. I had been starving myself fat on 1200 low fat, high fibre calories a day for decades. Could barely fit a size 18. High triglycerides. Degenerative bone disease in my right foot. High blood pressure. Body temp 95 in the morning. That was 13 years ago. I watched Taubes lecture and read his book. I also watched The Oiling of America. I used the old British diet in the prologue of Good Calories, Bad Calories. Two weeks after changing our diets my husband had his first improvement in bloodwork. Several months later a stranger understood him. I dropped from a 18 to a 6/8 over time and healed all my health problems. Twelve years later and we are both doing great. I would never return to low fat hell. I am mid 60s and have no meds for anything. Normal morning body temperature. I can hope on the foot with the Degenerative bone disease. Taubes book is a life saver. I was suppose to be a widow about a decade ago.

[@betsydurham9067]

Amazing story very inspiring.👏🏽👏🏽👏🏽

[@sandra100862]

powerful ! may you both grow healthy together !

[@lovingitonketo]

So glad to read that you took this problem into your own hands. My wife saved my life in sort of the same story. Glad to hear you took control of your own. you should be proud.

[@jellybeanvinkler4878]

Thank you for that story! I can relate, somewhat. Only I waited for Jason Fung to save me only 3 years ago with Obesity Code. But down 50 lbs and no longer "starving and suffering," to quote Liz Taylor. I too am 66 and healthier than I have ever been.

[@Joy80JJ]

Keep on preaching Gary. You have saved alot of people from deaths door. The AMA will never admit they are wrong.

[@pcfreakx]

I'm a huge Taubes fan and his most endearing quality is his sense of integrity. He owns his own mistakes and has a good attitude about recovering from them. He's a model of how to do science right. . . .

[@chazwyman8951]

Gary Taubes, Robert Lustig and Jason Fung helped me lose 45lbs last year. What is special about this is that I have been on a calories restrictive diet nearly every year since 1974. Each time it always ended the same way lose weight; stay HUNGRY, get tired and fed up; obsessed with calories and eating, only to gradually put it all back on and more. By the time I was 61 I had prediabetes a heart condition, on seven meds, and 254lbs. Fasting with KETO meant I reversed the prediabetes, no more heart pain, ended 3 and lowered 1 meds.. I breathe better, sinusitis better, athletes foot gone, skin tags gone. BUT MOST OF ALL . I kept the weight off and have never really been hungry all year long. Screw will power - you cannot beat hunger over time. You have to adjust those hormones, and keto with IF is the only thing that has worked in over 45 years of trying. Having only one or two meals a day and avoiding carbs is my new way of life, and it is the easiest thing to follow.

[@matthewstroud4294]

Listening to Gary reminded me of the Libet study on consciousness. Such a complex field, where a result is used wrongly to make conclusions about human free will, by people that advocated for the absence free will in the first place. In fact, Libet's experiments weren't even testing free will.

[@GwenMotoGirl]

Gary Taubes saved my life.

[@lovingitonketo]

(Harry here) I've found that standard doctors do not expand their knowledge past graduate school. for that reason, I usually FIRE my DOCTORS. I've done this quite often. I found that when I changed off the SAD diet and went over to a more ketogenic-type diet it changed EVERYTHING. That's why We push it so much.

[@KM-zn3lx]

Loving...yes the same here! Cancer screenings left me with breast cancer as did fake estrogen birth control pills! Now they want to force their version of food, injections in our bodies!

[@lovingitonketo]

@@KM-zn3lx (Harry here) I'm sorry to hear about this, I can't believe that someone in a position such as theirs is a joke. I feel betrayed most of the times.

[@cherylgabriel9551]

Discard

[@zerocarbdoc]

Thank God for Gary he has forced the health community to take nutrition serious. The world is a better place!

[@JKPilot]

Well thanking a fictitious being for the fantastic evidence based work that Gary Taubes has thankfully undertaken is an oxymoron if ever I’ve heard one. But certainly, the world can get to a better place with work like his.

[@sw6118]

Gary is providing an interpretation that many many doctors and insurance companies are simply not ready to accept.

[@KM-zn3lx]

Meanwhile, the Elites want to take away animal protein and enforce gene tainted veggies, fruits, and starches on us!

[@sw6118]

@@KM-zn3lx conspiracy theory of the day. Puh-leeze it’s our system of profits over people. The elites could care less what you eat or how the profit is made, only that there is one. This big focus on everything being a conspiracy means that common sense fixes to our food supply are ignored. Your post demonstrates the problem. Why not become part of the solution?

[@tomandersen7343]

Love Gary and his honestly approach - can't say the same about nutritional epidemiologists trying to defend the worst of the data mining studies as useful :)

[@iss8504]

@49 min Gsry hits the nail on the head. Same point Dr Fung always makes: if it works for you, studies aren't necessary.

[@KM-zn3lx]

Yes! I've read Gary Taubes book, " Why we get fat" at least three times! Probably need to get the other one. He made a lot of sense!

[@chazwyman8951]

You should also try Jason Fung's "Complete Guide to Fasting", IF with KETO is really powerful.

[@Frederer59]

Gary vindicated Dr. Atkins in 2002 in that amazing feature in the NYT just in the nick of time before Atkins died in 2003. The persecution of Atkins' person and his work continued. Gary taught me critical thinking and the gospel of Occam's Razor which has helped to hone my bullshit detector in the major themes of our times such as climate change, Covid, and Wokism. 20 years later I remain a disturber of the peace and accept the slings and arrows common to all whistleblowers.

[@rosyloveslearning3013]

Love these two men. We are all blessed. Thank you. 🙏🏼

[@lisagayhart2482]

Two greats talking great stuff

[@r.davidyoung7242]

Humbling how much I take for granted. I 💚 this KZbin channel. Thank you.

[@luciusverusluciusverus3082]

I really enjoyed both of these interviews but I think that it s a 100% correct just as you suggested we have to see what works for us individually I found that intermittent fasting 16/8, 18/6, 24 36 hour fasts all of those can contribute to much better biomarkers certainly they have for me just in the last year so ultimately it probably will be an individual Experiment after gathering all of the information that your channel provides and other good channels provide and assessing for ourselves what works and what doesn't thank you again

[@odontomatix]

This discussion very much reminds me of the last line in the novel "The Great Gatsby": "So we beat on, boats against the current, borne back ceaselessly into the past."

[@mickmcmenemy7701]

1:08:00 "We all need to eat carbs" Deirdre Tobias, PhD. This statement was not challenged. Carbohydrates from food is NOT essential.

[@TheShumoby]

💯%‼️Carbohydrates is not an essential macromolecule that we need to ingest; she said we make it internally ourselves anyways!

[@bidnow2946]

1:08:17 "...your body is making it, even if you are not eating it."

[@DrAJ_LatinAmerica]

Yes the body makes it. Yes there are some carbs in meats. Yes people can live without eating carbs other than meats.... All true. So "F" what? None of that means that some people would not benefit from carbs. There are many reasons for carbs outside of energy, outside of nutrition. It is a massively complex subject. There are no esencial need for many things in our human lives. Yet some people can still benefit from those things. It is also important to have a free world. I hate that people smoke and drink alcohol. However happy that I live in a world where there is freedom of religion, speech, and any other things.... Carbs might kill some and benefit others. Each has to learn and find what works for them and their health.

[@KM-zn3lx]

@@DrAJ_LatinAmerica yes you are correct! I mostly do IF and Keto/low carb but I do allow some ice cream and if there's a birthday party some chips and cake! After all, I want to enjoy some things. I find mostly I don't care about those things anymore so mostly stay away from them!

[@DrAJ_LatinAmerica]

@@KM-zn3lx home made ice cream rocks!!! Raw dairy, whey protein powder, ice, Knox unflavored gelatin (cheapest and awesome collagen which is generally glycine and proline), strawberries / raspberries, whole eggs, if you workout add some citrulline and creatine monohydrate,... awesome powerful stuff for the body. Some people add natural unsweetened yogurt or full fat cottage cheese. One of these is a whole meal and feel full. Great part of a low carb diet for those not worried about living life to the fullest with a few carbs. After all, more people die in a car than a low carb diet.

[@Christine-xs2of]

Thank you so much 😊

[@artificialintelligencejourney]

Simply brilliant!👏

[@jessicajohnson4087]

These guys are just so smart! ❤️. Thank you for all you do. You are saving lives🙏

[@seesharp81321]

Bret, is there something going on with the auto-focus of the camera? It seems like the camera can't keep up with you :) I'm wondering about 2 things: 1. is nutrition science actually a thing, or is it a way to give highly educated people a meaningful job? 2. do we need nutrition science? It seems like that the ones who came before us did quite well by eating real food.

[@sw6118]

It’s still unclear to me what and how much fat you are supposed to eat once you have a positive CAC score and when you don’t need to lose weight. The presumption seems to be that you’ll be on an endless weight loss cycle -lose-rebound-lose rebound….what’s maintain? For older people, short-term trials are only helpful for short term goals. Younger people are developing obesity before they even start school-it’s not taking years to develop.

[@armandsriekstins7646]

Great!

[@yehonatan2020]

I really wish someone would do the high dose vitamin C studies we so desperately need. Every study done with vitamin c has used small doses, and certainly not orthomolecular doses. Animals produce vitamin c in their body and a goat for example can produce anywhere between 13g and 100g in 24 hours depending on the body's requirements at the time. They come and say that only 1g of vitamin c is enough , for humans, but it's grossly wrong, and again we desperately need studies to verify the works of people like Dr Klenner and DRr Cathcart etc

[@iss8504]

Basically, this is a cautionary tale for Dave Feldman...

[@agr8h2o]

Well that explains a lot. What a mess, I had such high hopes going in. 😔😔😔😔😔

[@AI-vs7sm]

At 41 minutes, talking about Dr Chris Gardener changing the fat and carb parameters without you knowing it and comped the results, I get the vibe from other Gardener video interviews that he is plant based or at least leaning that direction.. Just wondering? For sure, none of the other plant based ,vegan , influencers bend the viewpoint towards plant based in order to debunk and criticize low carb people? SURELY THEY WOULDNT DO THAT ON PURPOSE, RIGHT? I MEAN, RIGHT????

[@realfoodcures]

Gardner is vegan since 1983. He is biased that way, in my opinion.

[@matthewstroud4294]

It could be fair to say that it is shown from the studies that "those people that ate red meat, on average, had a higher chance of some types of cancer". What this doesn't do though, is tell us anything about red meat or anything else those people ate. That is where journalists get all this stuff so wrong and mislead the non-expert public.

[@akhusal]

Maybe they should do the studies in a poor country where it should be cheap, after all people there work all day for a couple of dollar's a day. Use local scientists and people, maybe in China where they can get thing's done.

[@waterlilypink]

Congratulation to Gary Taubes Winning is yours

[@tobywassoexcited4032]

maps.app.goo.gl/ankGZdAFJyd9btQP7

[@tobywassoexcited4032]

1:07 1:08

[@cyndimanka]

The biggest thing I did for my health was get processed foods out of my life

[@michaelbutterfield7759]

I find 90 minutes hard the fit in my day. Can different participants be split.

[@TheShumoby]

I play it at 2x speed

[@lindawolz5540]

It's not necessary to view all at once.

[@ekondigg6751]

49:13 "You don't need the experiments to know whether or not a ketogenic diet works for you... the world is full of people who it doesn't matter if obesity is an energy balance disorder or a hormonal disorder, they found that they could basically reverse it and reverse it and the complications that go with it... by eating a certain way". My experience.

[@Casmige]

UIC, ‘83 Biology & Nutritive Sciences Our professor had us follow (& this was before computers So it was laborious) Clinically obese Olympian & Triathletes. After 2-years of following their diet, writing it all down every week, calculating their caloric intake & expenditure? Our final exam for the class was the professor asking a simple question for discussion: These athletes? Very dedicated in what they do exercising every day in order to attain to a seriously embarked upon athletic & endeavour & goal, Are you going to suggest or recommend that they exercise more or eat less?. It’s been a lifelong study but I can tell you that it’s beyond epigenetic’s & even calories-in calories-out: as one who eats only once a day (OMaD) a decidedly vegan vegetarian adherence no sugar no candy no soda no crap processed food while still maintaining 200 pounds on a 5’10” 60 year old frame. Yet?, I have nonalcoholic fatty liver condition. No consumption of sugar ever, no sweets, no pre-packaged processed foods, no sodas.. What would anybody suggest that I cut back on? Broccoli?, salad?, Maybe the bundles of asparagus that I like to eat raw? High-fructose corn syrup plays a part in it all, as does perhaps lack of Microdosing of essential nutrients from our soil. Hell, Even back in the early 80’s we mused whether or not obesity could be a viral induced morbidity or condition. I’m telling you we have it all wrong & will never know the correct answer because just as 1-virus affects 1-person mildly & differently & the very same virus affects the next person catastrophically? Food & diet is similar in scope & recompense.... There is no 1-size fit all & there can’t be... & you guys just sitting there with your highfalutin commiserating & discussion just to sell books is frankly professionally despicable.

[@DrAJ_LatinAmerica]

Great details. Could be salt, water and fruit intake. More and more we see nonalcoholic fatty liver in populations that salt their fruit and don't drink enough water. Just a small example. Several other reasons / possibilities exist.

[@rawmilkmike]

6:40 We were blaming the victims of bad dietary advice. Weight gain started many years ago with telling healthy women they're fat. This caused yo-yo starvation dieting and weight gain. Then some snake-oil salesman told them to go low fat plant-based and their health went right down the toilet. And this scenario continues to this very day. Humans can live on plants. (And neither can gorillas.)

[@jordazmo19]

I wonder if the title The Case For Keto is a shout-out to The Case For Christ or simply coincidence.

[@sw6118]

Who used the phrase first? It’s more likely a coincidence, I think they’re not christian.

[@ph0605]

Now that is a good book. Well worth the read!

[@Lauramagic18]

Here is a hint: Don't eat altered processed food that comes in a box, bag, or package. Fixed.

[@watcherworld5873]

Gary's comments are somewhat disheartening. After listening to KZbin videos on nutrition continuously for 11 months now. My only conclusion is that I need to evaluate all the advice based on my blood glucose measurements. Lately, my fasting blood glucose has been moving higher again. I wonder if this low carb diet is starting to fail me. It appears that after getting good results initially, the body adjusted itself to return my blood glucose back to some set point. Regardless of my fasting blood glucose, I no longer get high glucose spikes after meals because I stop eating high carb. I suppose that is something.

[@watcherworld5873]

@@Nicksonian Well, I think my conclusion is that no one really knows the long term effect of any diet. Also, I am only interested in a sample size of 1 consisting of only me. Today, I have a fasted blood glucose level of 69, so I am happy with my current approach. I am not adhering to any diet per sec. I am eating what my blood glucose monitor permits me to eat. I also try to exercise a lot and sleep well.

[@iss8504]

If your cortisol is high, your glucose will be too. There are many factors. Try fasting. Take a look at rhe fasting method podcast

[@watcherworld5873]

@@iss8504 Yes, I have concluded that my blood glucose now is tied to my stress level. I am currently working on sleep quality and anxiety reduction. I don't think I can do much more with my diet. I did a 7 day extended fast in early June. Glucose dropped during the fast to about mid 70s. After fasting it rebounded back to about 100. Lately, it seems to have edged down to the 90s. So, fasting didn't significantly change things. Well, on the bright side, my latest A1c is 5.2, so at least that result indicated that I am no longer prediabetic.

[@anthonykennedy5324]

Why should a country need Dietary Guidelines when they place all responsibility on the individual? That being the case, adopt your own diet and take responsibility for it. Low carb works for me. That's all I care about because that is all I can control. The choice is yours. If you are fat and sick than, like many others, look for alternative diets. The choice, and therefore the responsibility is yours. Gary Taubes was the first of many to open my eyes to the conventional high carb bullshit.

[@waterlilypink]

Warning Mr.dreamy party. Bycycle and books is for beneficially knowledge Not for yours silly parties. AND it's not expensive but valueless Not for you...

[@deanmartin1071]

Its something thats not recognized much I dont think but the ability to talk in a manner that isn't irritating is such an important part of getting a message across. Prime example is Jordan Peterson. Most people of his stature are impossible to listen to even if they could put the same thoughts together as he is capable of. Your guest is border line. 70% of what he is trying to say is bound up in poor delivery. Lazy, pompous and unpracticed.

[@bidnow2946]

Have another drink, Dean.

[@annbarnett9794]

I agree, I LOVE Gary, I’ve read Good Calories, Bad Calories (The Diet Delusion) twice, I think he’s amazing, I admire him in every way, but I find it difficult to listen to that drawl

[@emh8861]

Weird comment

[@RichRich1955]

Big deal. Eat less, loose weight. Calories in calories out.

[@test_account3536]

😂😂😂😂 Educate yourself