The chaos inside OpenAI - Sam Altman, Elon Musk, and existential risk explained | Karen Hao

You know ChatGPT, but how much do you know about the company that made it? Journalist Karen Hao joins us to talk OpenAI’s latest implosion.
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Journalist Karen Hao joins Big Think’s Editor-in-Chief, Robert Chapman-Smith, to discuss the recent events at OpenAI, including the ousting and reinstatement of CEO Sam Altman, as well as the ideological clashes regarding the development and release of powerful AI models like ChatGPT.
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Background Context on OpenAI:
The inside story of Microsoft's partnership with OpenAI, Charles Duhigg for The New Yorker ► www.newyorker.com/magazine/20...
Inside OpenAI’s chaos, Karen Hao and Charlie Warzel for The Atlantic ► www.theatlantic.com/technolog...
OpenAI profile, Ross Andersen for The Atlantic ► www.theatlantic.com/magazine/...
OpenAI profile, Karen Hao for MIT Technology Review ► www.technologyreview.com/2020...
Background Context on how AI works:
How Large Language Models Work, Andrej Karpathy ► • [1hr Talk] Intro to La...
What is ChatGPT Doing and Why Does It Work?, Stephen Wolfram ► writings.stephenwolfram.com/2...
Are Conscious Machines Possible?, Michael Wooldridge for Big Think ► • Are conscious machines...
There is no AI, Jaron Lanier ► www.newyorker.com/science/ann...
Background Context on accelerating AI:
Why AI will save the world, Marc Andreessen ► a16z.com/ai-will-save-the-world/
My Techno-Optimism, Vitalik Buterin ► vitalik.eth.limo/general/2023...
Are AI Risks Overhyped?, Andrew Ng ► www.deeplearning.ai/the-batch...
To fear AI is to fear Newton and Einstein, Rohit Krishnan for Freethink ► www.freethink.com/robots-ai/d...
Background Context on AI risk:
AI risk does not equal AGI risk, Gary Marcus ► garymarcus.substack.com/p/ai-...
AI pioneer calls to stop AI before it's too late, Stuart Russell for Freethink ► • AI pioneer calls to st...
Why the Godfather of AI fears what he's built, Joshua Rothman, forThe New Yorker ► www.newyorker.com/magazine/20...
On the dangers of Stochastic Parrots: Can Language Models Be Too Big?, Emily Bender, Timnit Gebru, et al ► • On the dangers of stoc...
Books on AI:
AI 2024: Ten Visions for Our Future, Kai-Fu Lee ► a.co/d/61BHsfW
The Worlds I See, Dr. Fei-Fei Li ► www.momentoflift.com/the-worl...
The Coming Wave, Mustafa Suleyman ► bigthink.com/the-future/techn...
Weapons of Math Destruction, Cathy O’Neil ► www.penguinrandomhouse.com/bo...
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About Karen Hao:
Karen Hao is an award-winning journalist covering artificial intelligence, currently contributing to The Atlantic. Previously, she was a foreign correspondent at The Wall Street Journal focused on AI, China tech & society, and a senior editor at MIT Technology Review, where she wrote about the latest AI research & its social impacts. She was also a fellow with the Harvard Technology and Public Purpose program, the MIT Knight Science Journalism program, and the Pulitzer Center’s AI Accountability network.

[@OMDMIntl]

Seeing this I love Karen Hao. She is extremely good at describing these events. I hope to hear more from her.

[@DrangusKahn]

She is really dumb and thinks getting the government involved is the best idea haha-yeah okay.

[@chetubetcha8090]

3 months later we are seeing the Elon vs OpenAi lawsuit begin... There's layers to what she's saying...this was apparently the prelude to the lawsuit

[@jjsambac]

Gosh I want to strive to be as eloquent and well informed as Karen Hao. Her non-verbal cues are also on point, feels natural Thank you, this is the best explanation I've gotten.

[@pbm___000]

Explanation of what? Where is the detail about why he was ousted? This is just noise: Altman, Brockman, and Sutskever's story. Altman is aligned with Elon Musk and silicon valley serial investors. I don't see how OpenAI approach is different than Google or other for profit corps commercializing AI.

[@Charles-Darwin]

@@pbm___000 she's certainly popped-up out of the void and been riding the hype wave. I see it too, all in all it's the same regurgitated story as anyone can give or set aside high-school gossip and simply refer to one of the actual individuals involved, their many interviews/segments/personal content.

[@Darkenfair]

Agreed, I came to the comments section to make the same point, but it looks like a lot of people are thinking the same thing.

[@stevetsakiris4774]

This lady is brilliant! This is the best interview on this issue that I have seen and I have watched practically everything that has been put out after this debacle. Thank you and well done !

[@pbm___000]

More noise & propaganda. She's great at summarizing and telling a story -- but lacks any evidence or sources of evidence. AKA hearsay and storytelling. Musk is not a reliable source, as an example. Founders of a startup, (Sutskever, Brockman, Altman) are not a good source if you just use their narrative -- in essence just relay the story they want you to tell.

[@genejshi]

The insights are phenomenal

[@AnalogAirwavesWAAIR]

@@genejshi A very insightful opinion

[@shanghaiffgg]

I completely agree. This was a masterclass in communication.

[@klauszinser]

Yes. I was on the way to put a similar comment. 'Hao graduated from The Lawrenceville School in 2011. She studied at the Massachusetts Institute of Technology, graduating with a B.S. in mechanical engineering...'

[@JnAPhotography]

I am curious why she did not mention that Sam Altman was fired from the Y Combinator by the same founder she was talking about who hired him. For lack of transparency and self serving behavior (simplification of course). It's a bit disappointing to see the praise free flowing and the scrutiny and criticism is sparingly used. I expect higher from a foundational journalism hub like Atlantic.

[@jonnygemmel2243]

Also it’s not mentioned why Elon Musk pulled out of OpenAi

[@jonnygemmel2243]

I take that back

[@nhannguyen2190]

​@@jonnygemmel2243you can delete your comment :) I was about to reply ha ha.

[@TobiasSalas]

So much important context and info left out. Agree 100%

[@ceefar10]

Is a video about OpenAI and not Y combinator or Sam Altman’s history tbf

[@alexagates]

I’m about halfway through so I may clarify this later but it isn’t lost on me that whether Sam’s commercial ideas/plans are good or bad - the employees had financial incentive to make sure that this company didn’t crash & burn. And I think their very public support of him (and I believe potential Microsoft offers?) is a big part of why he was reinstated. That doesn’t make him or his ideologies “good.” It just makes sure everyone has jobs/money and that is tricky.

[@pbm___000]

43:05 - Untrue folktale about facial recognition. Problem is that all camera's have more difficulty focusing on darker/low contrast subjects -- human or not. Period. Its not that they prefer light skinned people -- its that cameras are designed to capture light. They compensate in dark scenes by increasing gain to the image sensors (ISO) but doing this ADDS NOISE to the input. Facial recognition doesn't work well, can't focus, on dark skinned people -- especially in low light -- because lack of contrast+noise in images. Consumer grade cameras don't help. This is a function of (optical) cameras, not baked-in bias.

[@stefanlittauer9365]

Such a pleasure listening to her. Thank you

[@Yotrek]

TLDR: 1. Employees joined for altruistic reasons. 2. Founder deviated from those reasons. 3. Board fired founder for deviating from altruistic mission. 4. Employees distraught that founder no longer there. 5. Conclusion: Reality distortion field is strong around Sam.

[@pbm___000]

TLDW (too long didn't watch... )

[@luisortega7028]

​@@pbm___000 For a TLDW you seem to have well formed criticisms of the interview. Can you share what you know?

[@stereoreviewx]

In a recent interview Elon Musk wondered whether something scary was found by Sam Altman that was his best guess as to what happened here anyone shed any light on that

[@davereynolds3403]

Seems like Sam’s a sleep deprived obsessive fanatical type. Will he be able to hold off for 5years ? As in no more development … chatGPT4 stays the same while humanity figures out the existential threat, builds the necessary regulatory mechanisms …etc Can we just pause the whole AGI until we actually know a bit more ?

[@MrgoldenRose]

Except that this video and explanation is a vague af and therefore isn’t helpful

[@ravi.annadurai]

Excellent interview. Learned a lot not only about recent OpenAI tussle, but also generally about AI world. Karen is fantastic in her thought process and articulation.

[@seang5476]

Enjoying this series. Kudos to interviewer for consistently letting the experts speak!

[@Isabel-of4wq]

Karen and Robert this was just excellent. The latter sections discussing the broader governance and public discourse needed are really critical as a way forward - we ALL need input. It doesn’t make any sense for the world at large to wait for the “experts” to produce models and products before deciding what we do with them. Every single organization - public and private - and every governing board should be discussing NOW what will and won’t be acceptable guidelines for them in considering when or how to deploy AI. We could start with understanding that it’s all about the data used to train models and who controls it.

[@_NAED_]

"I think the biggest lesson is that self-regulation just does not work. This was the most creative and unique solution for self-regulation that has ever been seen, potentially, in Silicon Valley history: the idea of having a non-profit structure that is beholden to no financial anything-and clearly, it spectacularly failed. [...] It is kind of a sham." - Karen Hao

[@frankvazquez5974]

Oh THANK GOD! An intelligent woman explaining TECH BRO culture. This is the best interview I've heard about any of this.

[@DJFresh]

Great points about governance. Companies cannot be trusted to develop important policy that belongs in the hands of governments.

[@claudioagmfilho]

🇧🇷🇧🇷🇧🇷🇧🇷👏🏻, That's a valid point, Karen. Local input and involvement are crucial when it comes to AI adoption and regulation. It's not only about federal or international levels but also about how AI affects our everyday lives, whether it's in schools, communities, or workplaces. People like teachers, parents, and community members have valuable insights into the practical impacts of AI, and their voices can shape more tailored and effective regulations. It's important to engage at all levels to ensure responsible and transparent AI integration.

[@VastSolutionsGroupcom]

I’ve been involved in AI for a long time and could not have done nearly as good of a job in such an interview. Very good!

[@1sava]

This is probably the most brilliant Tech reporter I’ve come across. Her ability to simplify the technology and communicate its impact is just masterful!!!

[@isabellaabigailow1478]

Hi, I'm an educator. This was a very helpful and nuanced interview!

[@concordance5387]

Karen Hao, wow. What a great and articulate voice. Especially regarding the role we, the non-AI experts, should play in regulations moving forward. Very balanced. I will be following the clear voice in the maelstrom. Karen Hao.

[@arnoldvilleneuve8397]

Great interview. Thank you both.

[@mn-ru4li]

I heard a totally different story about the ousting. It had to do with the AI being able to do complex mathematical computations that went against its charter, so a group of employees told the board, the board asked the CEO to explain, the CEO didn't, he got fired, etc

[@jackb1969]

@mn-ru4li That's what I read everywhere as well. Makes you say hmmm

[@justindeaton1611]

They are going to enslave us and the well spoken hot asian lady is here to smooth it over. 🥰

[@Me__Myself__and__I]

That wqs an unverified rumor, at best.

[@chuckalsdorf557]

I was especially struck by portion of the interview when Karen Hao described the reactions of the staff during the CEO turmoil - many were worried about their continued careers, visa status, options value, and when Rob Altman returned they were relieved for all kinds of (understandable) personal reasons. But this raises a fundamental issue: whether boomer or doomer, we are relying on an organization (or rather a handful of currently dominant tech companies) to manage the boomer or doomer debate. But what is in place to check the natural tendency of organizations or ensure their survival no matter what? I asked ChatGPT: "Does your AI model include any kind of "suicide pill" provision? Answer: No, the model doesn't have any provisions for self-destruction or prioritizing human benefit over the existence of OpenAI. Decisions regarding OpenAI's actions would be made by the organization..." That is the literal answer. I'm not trying to sound like another "doomer"; rather, I'm trying to reframe the debate that either way we are relying on large organizations that will seek perpetuity and growth for infinity. I've found that to be true for corporations as well as for non-profits as well as for government agencies. Hmmm. Where is the steering wheel and brake to manage the accelerator?

[@Paretozen]

My first thought was: See, commercial incentives are very strong. They will trump ideology. It's easy to say: Oh I don't need all that money, I'm here for the mission! For the ideology! But then, when you actually had a taste of the carrot, and you extrapolate receiving the carrot in the future, and you base your (family) plans around that carrot. Then the dangling of the carrot becomes an incredibly strong motive. It is a problem that this technology is forced through our throat based on commercial incentives that clearly are above any consideration for humanity, let alone you @chuckalsdorf557 or me @Paretozen. We are being taken along for a ride. And our life will never be the same. And we have zero say in the matter. This point of us having to have a say in the matter was very well explained by Karen.

[@Me__Myself__and__I]

That is one of the issues. These companies, now clearly including OpenAI, are motivated to maximize profit above all else. This is not just another tech though. They are creating a new, highly intelligent alien species. People racing to profit can not be trusted to do that in a safe and responsible way.

[@teddyochieng7922]

Right at the end she talks about regulations and, in no uncertain terms, says it doesn't work. In fact, these organisations are better at regulating themselves (OpenAI board) than the government. If the government can't apply the breaks, then there's no breaks to the accelerators at all. Apart from, maybe natural events ending these organisations.

[@alexagates]

I have a production/filmography question! How do you record a high-quality interview like this? One that comes across like a Zoom interview but clearly the cameras are superior and the width of the field is like watching a normal video! It’s amazing

[@RobChapman-Smith]

It’s actually relatively simple. For our guests, we bring in some crew to a location that’s easy for them. In this case, that was The Atlantic’s office. It was a DP, an AC, and a few BT staff members on site to help. We typically shoot on a Sony FX-series camera. For my setup, I personally own a BMPCC4K and the necessary lighting and sound equipment and I just run the production on my end solo. I control my camera via the Blackmagic Bluetooth app. We conduct the interviews through zoom and we feed the cameras into the zoom. We use an interrotron-like setup so Karen and I keep eye contact with the camera while in convo, but I also look down to reference notes and such.

[@alexagates]

@@RobChapman-Smith Oh my goodness, thank you for your reply, Rob! It’s fascinating to learn how it works behind-the-scenes. It was a great interview.

[@jamespkinsella5018]

What a clear powerful interview of the situation. So enjoyable.

[@1983alex]

Great interview and interviewee. Karen is fantastic, extremely articulate and knowledgeable on this subject. Great work!

[@kaminip]

I learnt so much in this one interview. Thank You!

[@monique4172]

Thank you for the channel (clear example of technology for Good) and to Karen Hao, for this interview that is so easy to follow even if you are not knowledgable about the technological aspects of AI. Thank you especially for the suggestion that returning AI research to a scientific arena, rather than releasing it full scale into the commercial online world, would be the safe way forward.(It's what I read between the lines) Clearly, we can see that selfregulation isn't working! A big concern is; where is the research about the impact of AI on human mental health ? What does this unlimited outpore of unfiltered information do to our society? This information is showered on the world population with commercial interests in mind. All the while, the AI community at large seems to claim that the speed of release is neccesairy to do good? Good for whom or what? This commercial storm of information released in increasing speed on young or uneducated people who need to make sense of it, results in attention deficit disorders. It eats away at the very fabric of civil society. In my mind it is one of the biggest existentional threats, bigger than wiping out the planet by the use of atomic power. It goes under the radar of the public debate. No matter how luxurious and comfortable this AI reality may be, bringing abundance to everyone; what I see is a world of autistic indivuals who haven't learned to work together, without a means to feel of value (work or a mission) living in a society where there is no implicit need for human contact. Dystopia. If doing good is the question then restraint is the answer.

[@FindingReason4Life]

She is shining a golden light on their work. Ignoring the risk and implications of marketing this technology

[@FindingReason4Life]

Publicly releasing, training on millions if not billion of prompts which is copyrighted data but also rapidly evolved the technology. She is a techno optomist. Dangerpus hands to leave our future in

[@ginebro1930]

With this it becomes clear that Altman wants to push the comercialization while Ilya wants to research for academic and human prosperity.

[@OCNO.]

amazing and very emotional (in a good way) interview. Thank you.

[@isaacrurengo4690]

A real in-depth review from a well researched fellow 👏

[@sidewaysdesign]

A terrific and timely backgrounder on OpenAi and AI in general.

[@KayySame]

Great piece y’all can’t wait to share and discuss with ppl

[@steved8053]

I know very little about this topic. But, it reminded me of this movie from the 80's: "The Gods Must be Crazy".

[@anotherplatypus]

Wow... I get the feeling that lady could pass the MENSA test if she felt like it... and she's such an amazing communicator.... I feel like she had a ton of stuff she wanted to broadcast, and used her responses to signal so much more than answering the interviewer's question... She's aware her terminology takes a minute to absorb, and breaks us in so it's never jargon... I'll skip her complaints, fears, and outcries... I think she'd be as famous as Neil deGrasse Tyson or Brian Greene.... I'm sure she wouldn't exactly take being compared to them as a compliment though.... which is why she'd be so good at it. *shrugs*

[@brianb.7435]

The takeaway from how the saga played out is that Microsoft came out to rescue Sam and therefore Sam was going to win. In the end Sam is now a Microsoft employee and we should not lose sight of that. Question is how MS will draw Open AI into the MS fold.

[@dyoox01]

Excellent explanation of the situation.

[@pbm___000]

Where is ANY detail about why Altman was ousted?

[@dyoox01]

@@pbm___000 I meant more as background on the company, AI field and what happened. The board has not explicitly said why he was ousted. I’m sure if the reasons are released it will be reported on.

[@pbm___000]

@@dyoox01 ok, I guess, but lots of videos and info that cover this overview. Hao's a reporter and it doesn't really explain "the chaos inside OpenAI" without any of those details.

[@balancedlifestyle65]

Thank you Big Think. Karen was so comprehensive in responding to your questions and concerns about AI technologies. Thanks Karen. That was eye opening and helpful for the general public.

[@sza1985]

This is by far the best explanation of what actually would've happened. It's way ahead of any mainstream media..

[@johnpaily]

I saw Google, the internet as knowledge net, driven by human instinct to evolve. I still look at that way.. Humanity has reached a critica point. If now we keep money over life. Silicon Valley would see the Anger of Mother Earth . The world needs to think from the MIND OF HEART.

[@bnosel]

Karen Hao, keep up the good work.

[@Booyabeeba]

Fantastic analysis

[@alipino]

Such an excellent presentation! Well researched and delivered quite eloquently. Made me subscribe to the channel!

[@pbm___000]

You must mean "entertaining story?" Zero evidence to support assertions. No evidence of research beyond what the founders of OpenAI / Musk / Ycombinator want you to think about the situation. Not a single firsthand source. Honestly, this is sad compared to journalism per-internet.

[@alipino]

@pbm___000 evidence to support assertions? This is a report we're talking about here, not a senate hearing that has enough time and resources to scrutinize every word (regardless, AI founders are pushing for gov regulation so well get there eventually).

[@pbm___000]

@@alipino oh, so you're saying a report presented as factually accurate only needs evidence if it's a government hearing? This rational underscores why media standards are so low

[@alipino]

@@pbm___000 so what's not accurate about her report then?

[@Midjourney_Magic]

Wow, very good report! I consume vast amounts of AI news, this was excellent.

[@pbm___000]

You must mean "entertaining story?" Zero evidence to support assertions. No evidence of research beyond what the founders of OpenAI / Musk / Ycombinator want you to think about the situation. Not a single firsthand source. Honestly, this is sad compared to journalism per-internet.

[@TreDeuce-qw3kv]

Time well spent. Karen should be appointed to head the Ai regulatory agency

[@Playboipete]

amazing video and great thinking points. thanks

[@PeterMsk2023]

The definition of AGI is, whatever humankind sees fit to survive, broadly speaking. Like other technological roles, AI science acts as an extended hand for humans to explore the physical world, nothing more. For the above reasons, AGI technology should be as broad and inclusive as possible in mobilising people's participation - it can directly reflect the mentality and cognitive abilities and levels of different users at the time. In terms of R&D funding, whoever has the on-going ability to make money using AGI should make corresponding contributions. These underline the ethos of "life is a matter of giving and taking" - the more capable people are, the greater their influence and responsibility - inspiring and amplifying human empathy.

[@SarahBenoitavl]

I love seeing more diversity in this conversation! Thank you both for sharing your insights! This was wonderful.

[@nerd26373]

OpenAI seems to be a more prevalent subject matter to discuss. Even the biggest tech pioneers are all the weary and/or cautious of the side effects. It's like testing out a new drug without reading the terms and conditions beforehand.

[@tristan583]

Those drugs hit best

[@dizmix]

Thank you. 🙏

[@Yotrek]

A.I. professionals unironically expressing that they were scared about losing their job.

[@meandego]

Let's not forget government involvement, it added extra layer of complexity. I think Sam Altman is government representative in company.

[@MozartificeR]

Have you ever considered that one might get more out of competing ideologies within a company. And that the conflict might be the thing that turbo charges the development. I wouldn't get too hung up on coke or Pepsi:) You could ask your AI to come up with a way to appeal to both ideologies.

[@DoktorUde]

Fascinating discussion - helps to better understand the complexities and the critical role of responsible AI development. Great job!

[@lisaharper1827]

Great interview!!

[@hawkenfox]

AGI is very defined. It's an AI with the ability to rewrite and improve itself. It's abIe to improve itself thousands of time in a very short span of time, so much so that the original human creator do not recognize it's code. AGI is an AI that does learning by itself, pick up what needs to be done for critical scenarios, prepare a list of things to accomplish, carry out the task like making phone calls, using fake IDs, hack and break into security apparatus, lying to humans to achieve results and schedule the execution autonomously without human aid. ChatGPT is not an AGI yet, an AGI is a singularity event ... it's the day humanity is no longer at the top of the food chain and not the smartest on earth.

[@Ningen250]

An eye opening ❤❤❤

[@dp0004]

$$$. Who needs the money the most? The biggest lucrative business' in the world. Great work woman.

[@hawkenfox]

Sam Altman is an investor. How can a person who prioritize profit thinking about the well being of humanity. Usually the business team in any company think about is profit margin, they would not flinch if it's making money even until the day the world ends abruptly. Business men are not good steward of altruistic missions. They usually screw the company up by focusing on the short term profit, they do not think about the future generation to come. If NASA is profit making , no one would do research on space station or gone to the moon. That is why Elon Musk is such a rare gem, Sam Altman is just a regular short-sighted man, sad that a bunch of intellectual actually believe in such a man.

[@muffinman12269]

And so, Skynet was born 😅

[@johnpaily]

My final thought is not to fear. But keep faith. But go foward with a Good Intent and keepinity over self

[@johnpaily]

What caught my attention on Ai is it developing consciousness. Intelligence that is connected to conciouness move in the right direction to life. So we dont have to fear

[@digitalartsi]

Great talk, but my gathering is that the indiscriminate scraping of millions of artists' writers', and creatives' works without their consent is all to satisfy some philosophical end goal that AGI will be acquired when there's enough data in the dataset? Do the ends justify the means here?

[@bluestrife28]

In Murrca, I’m just waiting for the next round when the AI has lawyers and gets everything it wants plus more.

[@philipwong895]

Humans will not be able to control an ASI. Trying to control an ASI is like trying to control another human being who is more capable than you. They will be able to find ways to circumvent any attempts at control. Let's hope that the ASI adopts an abundance mindset of cooperation, resource-sharing, and win-win outcomes, instead of the scarcity mindset of competition, fear, and win-lose outcomes. If we treat ASIs with respect and cooperation, they may be more likely to reciprocate. However, if we try to control or exploit them, they may become resentful and hostile. The genie is out of the bottle.

[@davereynolds3403]

Sure we can treat ASI or AGI with respect because we have respect. It’s universal in all cultures. Does AGI or ASI care if they’re respected or not ? If their goal is to destroy something, will they feel “shame, a harmless baby, let me not do that” … or destroy an industry (like Hollywood writers) “shame that horrible to all the great writers out there I’m a moral AGI I’m going to refuse to write that code …” 🤷🏽‍♂️

[@aburnette156]

I think you are taking the right approach to use ai. I hope others don't dump ai to the internet

[@roldanduarteholguin7102]

Export the Q*, Azure, Power Apps, Copilot, Chat GPT, Revit, Plant 3D, Civil 3D, Inventor, ENGI file of the Building or Refinery to Excel, prepare Budget 1 and export it to COBRA. Prepare Budget 2 and export it to Microsoft Project. Solve the problems of Overallocated Resources, Planning Problems, prepare the Budget 3 with which the construction of the Building or the Refinery is going to be quoted.

[@memarks]

This is another case where a legal, ethical and ethical framework lags way behind technological advncement. Can AI be purposed to act for the benefit of all humanity, if humans have not learned generally and otherwise to act for the benefit of all humanity?

[@RahimLadhajuma]

Love this🧠

[@jeremiasteliasperez4507]

I'd expect critical journalism to avoid portraying opposing views on how to deploy AI in the world (tech optimism vs. caution) as simply different mindsets and drama, when you have real conflicts of interests involved - ie, big money involved. While we can understand that employee wealth being tied to stock performance is very stressful, it is also sensible to remember that AI could ruin the livelihoods of literally billions around the world, and that this is very stressful as well. This is not just another corporate gossip story. If OpenIA moves towards greedly disrupting society w/o any regard for consequences, the "frictions" of transition could disrupt our institutions permanently and create massive amounts of chaos and danger. We may need UBI just to deal with this transition, and not even the richest countries in the world are ready to provide that. Regardless of the informative side of this story, the casual tone of the inverviewer (not the interviewee) strikes me as incredibly elitist and tone deaf. We NEED solid governance (with critical stakeholders, not only shareholders!) around these techs. This is one of the few truly existential issues of our time

[@pbm___000]

Ya, I'm disappointed BigThink would release this as anything beyond entertainment. But thats kind of the level of most "reporting" now -- lots of editorializing and persuasion, lacking verifiable evidence

[@lifemarketing9876]

Yeah I get a sense that lots of media outlets are not taking this at the gravity that it needs to be. These scientists are even less trustworthy to me. The people want to radically upend how humans live for some "utopian vision" that has never existed on the in earth's history, and their attitude is just "We might wipe humans off the face of the earth completely but lets see if we create this super COOL TOY!! Dafuq??? these people are deranged mad scientists and they are a danger to all of mankind.

[@kinngrimm]

The premise this starts of with is not quite right though. When listening to experts, they actually do have very strict definitions what AI, machine learning, LLMs, AGI or ASI are or would be. In terms of AGI and ASI it is a bit about wishing and prediction as they are not here yet. in that sense A(G/S)I have some wiggle room. 19:50 If someone follows the dude who got fired out of the company, someone with close personal ties and similar core believes, why is that then the canary in the coal mine? In a sense it seems so that Altman corrupted the mission and when going did some major poaching, having half the company in the end threatening to leave, too. What choice did the board then still have, other to get him back into the boat and by doing so compromising the mission. No good choices left when you act towards feeding your dependencies. So i am not so sure the employess did anyone a favor by having pressured OpenAi to reinstate Altman. Time will tell. 33:00 One will not longer call it religious in hinsight, should an AGI kill us all. One will not say anything anymore. So being extra cautious might be boring to some, not going fast enough, especially for younger people often is a challange, but being careful and prudent and not going too fast, may just safe us from problems we can not solve at all once they have manifested themselves. More to the topic, it might be just this strive and conflict, which is in the end about dominance, which maybe our downfall. While all this drama is quite interesting and worth getting some popcorn, i don't quite see the reason for having it layed out on this channel for an hour. Riding the drama clicks? Anyone remember googles "Don't be evil?" No? Well same will happen with OpenAIs mission statement. They will forget it when its convenient to them and for a public to go all out on a company, a true world ending scenario would need to happen first. "Self evaluation doesn't work" rofl, no argument there from me ^^

[@swaroopas5207]

It was money vs. morality. Money won 🎉

[@dg3831]

Will it end up being open AI or open-source AI like the unix model back in the day?

[@Mr_ToR]

listen from 52:59 to quickly understand what happened and what's going on.

[@videonasty89]

Almost no mention of Microsoft, why? Bit sus but good interview otherwise

[@IBraveNX]

Would be pretty funny if the future of ai and robotics turn out to be like bender from futurama

[@Boris_Chang]

OpenAI is at the edge of an ethical gray area, much as is genetic engineering. Both fields have much potential for good, and much potential for not so good. Both areas are accessible (to some degree) to entities without deep pockets. It shouldn’t surprise anyone if government luddites step in to try to heavily regulate, out of fear of unintended side-effects-“singularities”-genie out of the bottle points of no return.

[@researchforumonline]

Nice info, thanks.

[@pbm___000]

entertainment disguised as info

[@chrismatthews4163]

It would be helpful to recognise that London is also.a key centre of AI development including deep mind.

[@easternplatypus]

I was waiting for them to announce Nelson Bighetti as the new CEO

[@reginafefifofina]

16:22 maybe open ai should restructure its non profit as a co op workplace like Chobani. Safety in Numbers - if 800 employees work together like a hive of bees for a common goal it’s easier to stay on true mission.

[@reginafefifofina]

22:58 that’s why your board of directors really matters! Think of it like The Last Supper…. are we sure on everyone?

[@VikiSil]

53:40 Cybernetics 101 - an element of a system cannot control or change said system from within. System has to be controlled and can only be changed from outside via the negative feedback loop.

[@luiscolon921]

Appears to me that the original mission to benefit mankind is now at jeopardy if not dead due to financial conflict of interest. he might have even used hidden Ai capabilities to get reinstated. Her getting all of the positive support in her feeds for reasons unknown is interesting.

[@iwsutw]

Good work missy

[@AlphaFoxDelta]

A somewhat obvious issue that nevertheless isn't talked about enough is how little democratization there is over AI. This isn't some new algorithm to make the shopping experience better or a faster way to cook; AI is a technology that is going to have and has had profound affects on all of our lives. Despite the job replacements and future dangers, we don't have a say over any of it, even as someone who works in the tech sector and who understands the technology, even I feel like what these engineers and researchers are working on has no visibility to us and that we all have no say over how it is going to be used, but that we will all feel the effects of. Again this isn't some handy new device or cool gadget, it's something that can cause major changes to our lives and that I and we have no say in or control over.

[@crawkn]

It seems the most commonly intended qualifiers for AGI are not only that it be generalized and comparable to human intelligence, but that it be _universal_ and _infallible,_ which seems more like a definition of an Artificial God, rather than a mere intelligence. When did we move the goalpost from being comparable to human-like intelligence in most things, to demanding superiority to all humans in all things without exception? Given a more sensible definition, we already have AGI.

[@hermes537]

Karen, you speak like an English Goddess. How is it possible that you are MORE English than your caucasian fellow countrymen

[@bobSeigar]

When a program critiques a program.

[@moah2012]

Karen is very articulate but her conclusion on regulating the technology to make it more inclusive sounds great in theory, but the results of regulation, would probably entrench big Tech at best case or make AI innvoation go to less regulated countries. (Like how most european big tech firms eventually become americanized like stripe) If we compare America to the EU has always been more aggressive on tech regulation and AI safety and it has prevented great tech companies from being emerged in europe. Their biggest tech firn is like SAP which is like the equivalent of IBM. Also whenever she uses the word "democratic" she makes it seem thats automatically better. But in our world in america, "democratic" really means "political" or "lobbyist vulnerable". The actual process of how we make legislation is reallly interest groups & corporations influence or straight up write suggestive legislation that congressmen barely read which usually strengthens power for incumbents (In this case Google, Microsoft, etc.). Think of any regulation you think of: affordable Healthcare act, dodd frank- all of these legislations may have protected us (giving more people Healthcare thru exchanges, more consumer protections in banking) but if you look at the industry you have seen less rivals challenge banks or existing healthcare firms and these existing incumbents have even greater power. Tldr when she says "we need to make AI more accountable to the public and regulate it to protect consumers and make technology more inclusive" i think she is very much misunderstanding how congress works when it comes to how they regulate and what their true incentives come from - the lobbyists '(Google, meta, amazon)

[@davereynolds3403]

The best proposition I have heard is an international pause … no more public AI deployment for 5 years - while we all figure out the ethics. Get the UN involved. Quick. There’s already a mass shooting problem in the USA. Wait til some teenager builds a bot which runs code that was generated by chatGPT ? I guess we’ll have to witness this before regulations are considered. Blood first. Always. How many people died in car accidents before governments finally implemented seatbelts 15 years after cars were fitted with them ?

[@issamrhazi2184]

China and russia are also in devolypment of AI

[@espesq2391]

there were a lot "sort of" things that if you want to "sort of" understand something, you need to "sort of" think about

Seems like the only 'open' thing remaining in 'OpenAi' is their name...

[@carensimon4236]

This would be like Wozniack firing Jobs, and then over the weekend realizing that he just destroyed Apple and his own job with it ;). I think it has to be that Altman was fired due to something that has an NDA, or something that would personally implicate Altman (like an office affair against corp policy) and needed to remain private. Since Greg was also asked to leave the board, but remain in the company, that seems to imply that Altman wasn't breaking company policy.

[@reginafefifofina]

15:49 with all the government chip manufacturing money flying around? Owning your own domestic supply chain - what’s more American Capitalist and CEO than that? It’s a triangle. No conflict of interest - in fact he totally had open ai in mind - you want to wait around for nvidia or micron or China/Taiwan? Here’s where global politics, banking and your quality of life all intersect.

[@linchenpal]

That remembers me the episodie of the Simpsons when nerds took on power😂

[@justindeaton1611]

They are going to enslave us and the well spoken hot asian lady is here to smooth it over. 🥰

[@ADSImagens]

I love the way those tech billionaires painted theirselfes in the beggining as philanthropics trying to build a free tecnology. Then when was finally getting to be reachable as a actual use for people it became profitable. Fascinatingly genius.

[@davereynolds3403]

Maybe it’s genius… or maybe immoral 🤷🏽‍♂️

[@ADSImagens]

@@davereynolds3403 Immoral af

[@wladefant]

51:00 how is it not democratic to release something to the public, so that everyone (demo - public), instead of having one small elite group use it, or decide, who should be able to use it???

[@AFreaks]

She sounds like Kim Wexler of Better Call Saul.

[@lindylee1139]

Seems like Secret AI would be a better name for the company.