The Conservative's 'Economic Traps' | Should Britain Return Ancient Artefacts? | Populism Deep-Dive

Should Britain give the Elgin Marbles back to Greece? Will people be financially better off following Hunt's Autumn statement? Why have populists like Javier Milei and Geert Wilders performed so well in recent elections?
Join Rory and Alastair as they discuss these topics and more in today's episode of The Rest is Politics.
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[@davesy6969]

The Greeks should send Rishi a large wooden horse.

[@docastrov9013]

Or a small wooden horse.

[@lublondon]

@@docastrov9013😂😂😂brilliant

[@hughiemg2]

Interesting conversation. I find the issue with establishment politicians is that they rightly decry populism but fail to acknowledge that populism rises where the establishment parties refuse to resolve or even acknowledge the issues that matter to the everyday person in the country. In Ireland there have been massive demographic shifts in the last 20 years with 20% of the population not having been born in the country which is an incredibly high level. This population growth has put huge pressure on housing and services which is fueling the anti immigration stance and will be a part of what boiled over in Dublin. There is a perception in the country that politicians are more concerned with how they are perceived externally (and that played out here) than in actually acknowledging and fixing issues - this is what is driving the rise of Sinn Fein as the most popular party in the country.

[@aninewforest]

@hughiemg2 Housing is a major issue in Ireland, but that has more to do with Ireland embracing a low-tax, corporate-friendly economy to undercut other European countries, resulting in underfunding of public services. Healthcare is more privatised in Ireland in keeping with this Rightward shift. Most immigrants to Ireland are young, working-age people, so not themselves a burden on health services. This influx is corrollary to the housing crisis, not causative; just as many young Irish are moving abroad. The problem is politicians capitalizing on people's frustrations and blaming immigrants instead of their own neoliberal economic policies. (By the way, stats on the % of the population born in a country are pretty meaningless. "White Irish" move around a lot, give birth abroad, so their kids would be technically be considered "foreign born." Here in the U.K. we have for example Boris Johnson who was born in the U.S., actress Emma Watson born in France, and so on. Many important public figures decades ago were born in India, Kenya... All British but "foreign born.")

[@robertfletcher8964]

@@aninewforest what I find is everyone just chooses what their political leaning deterministically leads them to rather than looking at ground truths. Everything is considered in these meaningless divisive "Far Right", or "Woke" platitudes designed to pander to a base, and nothing ever changes. The only time I hear someones political position identified is by somone seeking to undermine the credibility. No one talks about issues and solutions. If you try to be centrist people accuse you of fence sitting, as they swim about in their political septic tanks. The first thing I'd like to see from our state is regular communication of the issues, and what they're actively doing. Leadership is complex and its often hard to understand decisions unless you know the challenges and the trade-offs being made.

[@aninewforest]

@@robertfletcher8964 I agree the discussion around politics is far too focused on personalities instead of issues. It's as if the media were shielding people from thinking deeply about the choices we face. I would like us to use more randomly-selected citizens' assemblies to explore and debate issues, then propose solutions in an advisory capacity to an elected government. This worked well in Ireland for example, and paved the way to its historic vote on abortion rights.

[@alexmalex82]

Rory please visit Andalucia to see how wonderful the windturbines work in a beautiful landscape

[@inijuj]

The explosion at the Parthenon happened in the 17th century more than 100 years before Lord Elgin took the marbles (19th century). So the argument that they would have been destroyed by the explosion if not for Elgin is illogical.

[@craigcorbet]

Like Russia sabotaging 3 out of 4 of its own Nord Stream pipelines? Which is still economically haemorrhaging them. Of course we eventually found out the Ukrainian officers responsible for the offence. Those that pushed the dangerous lie eventually recanted when they had to. My question is where are the consequences to everyone who pushed that obviously illogical lie? I too expect consequences for everyone pushing the illogical and irreconcilable timeline gaff vis-à-vis Elgin. Why allow damaging bullshit to pollute the consequential public conversations?

[@TheLucanicLord]

More than one explosion is possible. It was invaded by the Turks, who were using them for target practice and intending to make cement out of them.

[@bladdnun3016]

@@TheLucanicLord Turks other than the Ottomans?

[@kyaume21]

Rory mentions the Mona Lisa, but didn't Leonardo da Vinci paint it while he was in exile in France, and under the protection of King Francois I ? Thus, arguably France does have a legitimate claim on the ownership of the painting.

[@davesy6969]

Some of the problems left for Labour: The RAAC concrete repair bill. NHS building program. Record NHS waiting lists. Local authorities going into section 114 (bankruptcy). Full prison system. Shortage of prison officers. Massive asylum seeker backlog. Implementation of full customs and border controls. Declining public services. Pension system reform.

[@tisFrancesfault]

Indeed. A lot of folk (in particular corbynites) overlook the utter scale of the issues that a labour government will have to tackle. It's likely considerably worse then the Tories are stating.

[@vincilo8835]

and above all declining productivity of the whole country :(

[@GeekfromYorkshire]

True and tough choices: - if you curtail immigration you get an economic hit. - if you don't curtail immigration you have to build on greenbelt more. - if you tax wealth you get capital flight, lowers Sterling and raises inflation. - if you tax income you put off people from working. The single best thing anyone could do is simply rejoin EU and wait for the howling to disappear.

[@SassyTheSasquatch96]

The chronic failures in our welfare safety net, im sure all you read are articles saying its all migrants stealing our dosh so to slash all welfare payments but we pay less to our disabled than the Italians ffs.

[@dba1222]

​@@vincilo8835there was a great twitter thread about the UK PAYE tax code around 50-60k in couples that was relevant to the productivity issue

[@markendicott6874]

Tories deny losing Marbles is the headline that should write itself.

[@lotus7eater]

At 47.40 "Some Irish citzen assaulted ..." = today's "Let them eat cake".

[@docastrov9013]

They have zero understanding of Ireland. They think the pro-migrant Sinn Féin are populists. 😂

[@kkrddr225]

I think populism can get FAR worse in the UK.

[@TheDandonian]

Oh it's going to. The amount of money that will be spent over the next year by Right Wing politicians on a global scale is staggering.

[@wendywolfman]

It will if one of the two main parties don’t drastically reduce mass immigration and illegal immigration. It’s honestly as simple as that. Get legal immigration under 100k net per year and either party would be sorted.

[@craigcorbet]

I’ll never understand why that obviously sane policy is left completely clear for parties with an otherwise loathsome platform to score an open goal. Compassion for the governed compels you to turn off the tap. Resource management is fundamentally a zero-sum game. Everyone knows this.

[@aninewforest]

@wendywolfman It doesn't matter how low immigration is, the problems will persist: Scarce and overpriced housing, an understaffed, underfunded public health service, and an overabundance of low-skilled, low-paying jobs. These require complex solutions; blaming migrants is politically expedient but lazy governance.

[@TheLucanicLord]

Only stupid people fall for obvious lies and platitudes. The great British public have far more common sense than Jonny Forriner.

[@georgepantelemides1076]

The explosion of the roof of Parthenon, the temple in which the Ottoman ammunition was stored, during the siege of the Acropolis of Athens, by the Venetians, took place in 1687. Therefore, Rory's information transmitted during the pod, that Elgin taking the marbles in 1800, had actually saved them from been destroyed by said explosion of the 1687, sounds for a historian like him, pretty ludicrous. I hope he agrees.

[@verityviolet]

A lot of what Rory says is piffle. His BS about the National Trust being hijacked is also twaddle.

[@PMMagro]

He also mixes up Constatinople the Ottoman Empires captial) with Istanbul (Turkeys name for the city when no longer capital of the nation replacing the Ottomans) which is a bit unexpected. UK, England, the Normans same same sort of.

[@afctaylor12]

Well you can actually speak Norman in parlement

[@TheBloodsuger150]

You can’t expect him to remember perfectly arguments he made pretty clear he didn’t personally believe in..?

[@danyoutube7491]

@@PMMagro That's when it was officially changed to Istanbul, but it had, apparently, long been known informally as Istanbul.

[@steverichmond7142]

Wind turbines attract tourists if they are placed in dramatic landscapes. I live in the Scottish Borders and foreign tourists are impressed with a big on shore wind-farm.

[@tisFrancesfault]

It's more in-spite off I think than because it's off. For what is worth the comment about Stockton being a "shithole" is not exactly wrong. Cos it's a shithole...

[@annparker3222]

I think they have an elegant beauty

[@isaacdalziel5772]

By far the most beautiful method of power generation. I love the offshore wind farm we have here in Brighton.

[@steverichmond7142]

We have a massive offshore wind farm from Eyemouth to Dundee covering the Firth of Forth. Beautiful. @@isaacdalziel5772

[@alexmalex82]

So nice to hear this from others. I wholeheartedly agree, I find them wonderful and quite inspiring really.

[@mtb5778]

I keep hearing that wind farms are noisy but I cycled right under one the other day when it was windy and there was no noise. the gearing is such that they rotate slowly and generate little noise. I cycled past a farm with a small wind turbine that was really turning fast in the wind and it was incredibly noisy. We need on shore wind. It is a no brainer. claiming that they are ugly is pure NIMBYism. I would have one in my garden if I could.

[@swanchamp5136]

There are small ones that can power your house similar to solar panels. The main issue is that because they involve moving parts, they are susceptible to breakdowns more than solar. They are developing better, more efficient versions. There are ones that replace the peak ridge of the roof with integrated turbines instead of a fan. They are also developing ones with no moving parts as well.

[@aninewforest]

Labour does NOT represent the traditional working class in Britain, Rory. Look at Starmer's complete failure to back union strikes over pay.

[@stephenconway2468]

Stunning insight on so many issues. Brilliant. Thanks

[@topmum100]

I’m not sure the Netherlands is “aggressively secular”. They are still divided with a strongly Catholic south, and when I used to visit (up to 7 years ago), they still had religious radio stations. Plus there’s a staunchly conservative “Bible Belt” in Zeeland.

[@TheLucanicLord]

> strongly Catholic south You mean Belgium?

[@jansmitsvanoyen4832]

​@@TheLucanicLord, it used to be Belgium, but they refused to give it up when the rest of Belgium became independent and it's still part of the Netherlands

[@UTubeSL]

Rory is increasingly becoming a bit of a hero of mine, tbh.

[@31Blaize]

Although I'm no fan of his voting record, imagine how different the country could have been had he won the leadership.

[@tisFrancesfault]

​@@31BlaizeRory, you may not agree with, but he would make policy that he thinks would be genuinely good for the country.

[@UTubeSL]

@31Blaize worth checking out the James O'Brien interview (face to face) in which he explains the voting record.

[@31Blaize]

@@UTubeSL I've seen him explain it (although I don't think it was with JOB). I get it to a point, but I don't have to like it 🙂

[@UTubeSL]

@@31Blaize haha fair enough 🙂

[@richardoldfield6714]

One big reason why support for many left-wing parties is collapsing is because many such parties have been taken over to some extent by 'progressive' left-wingers and 'social justice warriors' who focus far too heavily on issues - regarding trans-ideology, identity politics, 'politically-correct' language use, etc - that are a million miles away from the day-to-day concerns of most of those who previously and traditionally voted for socialist or centre-left parties. Some of these 'progressives' appear to believe that, for instance, having teachers affirm a child's transgender beliefs is is more important than the question of education funding. The UK Labour Party needs to avoid the same trap.

[@marythorpe928]

Rory Stewart speaks a lot of sense, wish he were a Labour MP

[@kennethnoisewater1502]

We manage to keep competent people away from the decision making

[@susanbaker7282]

Yes he does just wish he would say more about Sunak's dream Freeports SEZ which will be almost impossible for Labour to get us out of

[@verityviolet]

Scratch him on any issue and he is a true Tory.

[@jonathanmonck-mason6715]

Richie doesn't want to see his name associated with lost marbles.

[@LS-xs7sg]

Surely Turkey should pay the British for the Elgin marbles and then return them to the Greeks whom they colonised and exploited.

[@michaelgoss9606]

Excellent talk chaps, thank you.

[@shaneintheuk2026]

Why would Labour take the chance on talking about higher taxes when they are already so far ahead? It’s their election to lose so all they need to do is avoid mistakes. The Tories are going to have to come up with a dramatic idea to change the polls. They need to take the risks.

[@TheKatLou]

I'd really like them to talk about a tax on the 1% or wealth tax....this isn't going affect most ppl, including their target audience of disaffected Tory voters and those in key marginals....

[@shaneintheuk2026]

@@TheKatLou I don’t disagree with the policy but don’t do it yet. Don’t give the press any traction to claim Labour are going to tax and spend. It’s a question of tactics rather than policy

[@MattBooth]

@@TheKatLou Yeah but we don't need to talk about it. Just win the election and then announce the top 1% are going to be paying more tax and that's going to fund an increase in the tax allowance or NHS care, etc. Don't need to win the argument if you don't have one. You only put tax shite in your manifesto if you think it'll win you votes. Perfectly fine to increase taxes that weren't in a manifesto.

[@aninewforest]

@MattBooth Labour explicitly stated they wouldn't raise taxes on the 1%. Instead they said they would keep up the pressure on benefits recipients, even disabled people... It's just wishful thinking that they'll be any wiser or more compassionate than the Tories on most issues :(

[@danyoutube7491]

@@aninewforest Christ, that's depressing. One thing I like about Starmer is that he seems loathe to promise things he thinks he might not be able to deliver, but he also seems almost anti-labour on a number of issues.

[@JPMW1]

Would love to hear your thoughts on the UAE buying up huge chunks of Africa for carbon credits

[@dreamcrusher112]

Biggest greenwashing scam around, carbon credits. Buying a forest and not cutting it down, and then counting that against emissions.

[@elinstar6034]

Come on peops, give the guys a like! Spread the chance to see this more widely!

[@thehilligan]

Giving back the Elgin Marbles can be a "strong " and diplomatic action.. I wld recommend the opposite: that if they stay in Britain they shd be "on loan " to the UK., with an eventual return date.Totally accept that the world is full of museum objects from elsewhere. I worked in a Museum for many yrs.

[@danyoutube7491]

I think it is sad that our government can't quickly agree to do the right thing and just give them back to Greece. In a perverse way one could argue that the fact that Elgin did buy or take them proves that they weren't very safe in that era (because Elgin surely had the permission and assistance of someone in the Ottoman bureaucracy), but nowadays I don't think any such argument holds water. As you say, if there is to be any loan it should be TO the UK rather than from it. You make a good point about the world being full of objects from abroad, but in certain cases items have such a strong significance to a nation that they should be returned.

[@adamangit]

This is such good stuff and really appreciate the health in the opposing and complex views. Great example of how to explore complexity

[@plumduff3303]

Fantastic show thankyou

[@albertbrammer9263]

Not sure the UK can go the right-wing populism way like some other countries because we are becoming less and less religious. They are having to use "attacks on British culture" rather than "attacks on traditional (religious) family values".

[@docastrov9013]

UKIP would have replaced the Tories if Cameron hadn't given the EU referendum.

[@tisFrancesfault]

It certainly can, even if that would become a perversion of the principles. That is the UK is one of if not the oldest liberal democracies (with caveats, sure). You argue to defend them they must be curtailed, weak licentious masses are typically too dumb to spot the obvious contradiction. The hope is that broader society isn't so fooled.

[@stephenderry9488]

There are religious groups that hold disproportionate amounts of influence and power in the UK and can rely on dependable voting blocs. Obviously not the Anglicans or the Catholics, but the pro-Israeli Jewish bloc and Sunni Islam show little sign of becoming "less religious" and have full control of the national narrative in the areas of their specific interest.

[@xxora6568]

the british culture factor is probably just as, if not more than religion

[@swanchamp5136]

​@docastrov9013 I doubt it. It would be more likely that Labour would have gotten back in sooner as the Tory vote would have become split. The country is more left wing than right on a whole but the left wing is split among different parties while the right wing is just like 95% owned by the Tories. The issue this causes as we are seeing now and since the brexit vote is it allows these smaller parties like UKIP to threaten the Tories to implement their policies or face losing power by splitting the vote enough for Labour to get back in. When they get what they wanted or made agreements they step down their prospective MPs from challenging seats that Tories would have lost if UKIP or now Reform would stand. These minor right wing parties have been bullying the Tories even further right than ever with these tactics not through actual popularity with the public but with manipulation of the first past the post system.

[@discodavid26]

The sad thing is at least in Britain most people aren’t racist against immigrants individually but when immigration each year is far far greater then house building ( nevermind tiny rabbit hutch flats building with unsafe cladding) and this has been year in year out since 2000 and many like me are hitting late 40s and still cannot buy our first houses/homes ….… and we see the companies CEO’s and the generations before benefit massively from cheap foreign labour …… it’s not a surprise to me that those party’s who want to limit immigration the most will benefit more … factor in global warming will likely encourage more immigration to happen then even current levels then I’m only surprised it’s taken this long in uk and Europe … I think going forward only people who may be more unpopular then immigrants will be multi home owners/ foreign investors who leave homes empty/ elites/ liberal politicians …… so while on one level I respect a.c and r.s I think increasingly over the next decade they might be shocked that this might keep going and going … the first clue that wasn’t heeded by the liberals was the brexit vote … although I agree it does come at a cost off 3/4% off economy

[@MorningtonCrescent]

Interesting points raised, but I would need to counter that the fundamentals of the Brexit vote was based on jingoism and xenophobia, themselves based on race attitudes i.e non-EU immigration. The sad irony is that following Brexit, net immigration is approx. 750,000 in 2023, the vast majority of whom are from non-EU states. Political myopia at it's best.

[@bertslagman8208]

Your discussion about Geert Wilders and Dutch populism was great and very accurate! There were a few inaccuracies in your description of the Dutch election system. Firstly we actually do vote for individual members of our political parties. If any member of a party gets at least 1/600 th part of the total vote they get to ignore their place on party lists. Members also can’t be expelled from parliament if they are thrown out of parliament they often start new parties when this happens, like Omzigt did. The parliament often feels weak because they don’t get a lot of support staff. Our governments also don’t tend to fail due to unexpected events. The previous government actually dealt with the energy crisis and the Ukraine war relatively well. The government actually fell because the VVD didn’t feel they could compromise on immigration again.

[@ds6914]

As James Acaster said, "We're still looking at them"

[@Charlie-et4td]

Big up Dr Mondon

[@arnoldkiel7670]

UK populism has manifested itself in a specific project which inevitably and predictably failed. That is more easily disproved than personality-cult-based populism, which, e.g. Trump, survives longer. Orban is yet another case: he succeeded in dismantling institutional and civil defenses in Hungary which seems to perpetuate his power despite not delivering much.

[@karlallington3943]

Good point, let’s hope so eh…

[@craigcorbet]

But those vulnerable and susceptible to those brands of populism are precisely the types of people that will disagree that Brexit even failed. And even for those that do concede it’s been a failure, the fault won’t lie in the populists they propagated. It’ll be obstructionists; globalists; all the usual risible boogeymen. Don’t underestimate their lack of standards. As Sam Harris says, it all boils down to no longer sharing facts. Let alone norms. We’re converging on different truths. And that isn’t sustainable. Liberal democracies will continue to die. It took histories 5th worst pandemic that produced an intolerable, avoidable body count to temporarily unseat Trump. And even then tens of millions will go to their graves denying he actually lost. The land of the free freedomed themselves to misery and death. We’re not dealing with mentally stable people. A Trump/Bolsonaro/Milei type figure can easily win in the UK. Collecting votes from people with no integrity or fortitude isn’t difficult. Especially as more of them keep winning.

[@aninewforest]

@arnoldkiel But Orban's star is falling. 19% inflation rate in Hungary, the highest in the E.U. Hoardes of young people moving abroad to work (hence mostly older folk left behind who vote for him). It's unsustainable. Right-wing rhetoric won't keep an economy afloat.

[@Samboy666]

If these two formed a party and ran for PM they'd have my vote.

[@elizabethfitzgibbon3908]

How about a discussion on health. The food manufacturers. Why are advertisements on smoking banned, but not on unhealthy food. Why are Mary Berry’s “Bake Off” programmes allowed, & now even worse there is a children’s “Bake Off” programme. We are the 2nd fattest country in Europe after Malta. It’s costing the N.H.S a fortune. Unhealthy eating leads to diabetes, heart disease, cancer, etc; lt’s a very important topic. Then we have cooks like Nigella, Jamie Oliver, Nadya Sharif, demonstrating unhealthy recipes. The Times, a respected newspaper, allows advertisements, as do other papers, and magazines .

[@TihetrisWeathersby]

They should absolutely return ancient artifacts, It was never there's to take

[@tisFrancesfault]

Sure they were.

[@danielwebb8402]

Take / buy and look after rather than just be vandalised further and destroyed Tomato/ tomatoe The counter factual is not "They stayed in Greece, would still exist today in Greece in same quality and standard as they did in London"

[@missvmartin6571]

How the heck does Rory retain so many facts about so many different things? Wow.

[@DEFDEF9]

They give him a script

[@elspethgibson7625]

Can't believe Rory about populism. If you look at the Brexit Tories and le Pen in France rhetoric about the EU, immigration, national status, they are the same except that the UK left the EU whilst Le Pen had that ambition but has now shelved it.

[@mtb5778]

the Elgin marbles? really? never seen them and never will see them. I'd rather to go Stonehenge or York Minster. I'd rather be able to afford to put my central heating on more than anything.

[@jonathanaustin4952]

Fantastic. Informed discussion and in depth information, in contrast to the BBC (just as an example!) which is cutting expenditure on quality news even though we have to pay. Regarding extremism driven by social media. How about an interview with Nick Clegg? Maybe ask him why Facebook doesn't have strict KYC. Banks and other organisations require some form of ID. Sometimes a video of your face & voice, an official ID document, such as a driving licence, passport, bank account statement etc, why not Facebook?

[@lesleyegg]

Good idea!

[@farang_lao]

Another great show. Keep up the good work defending the centre ground of politics. Popularist and divisive factions seem to be working hard to erode western democracies. Would love to see a show focus on the defence of democracy with a guest like Vlad Vexler or Jonathan Fink.

[@squarecoffee8750]

Long live tory rory

[@chhitijpahari1011]

🤣

[@MrACOUSTICPETE]

If some rich oligarch had bought Stonehenge and shipped it abroad ,would we want it back ?

[@georgethompson453]

You called it Rory, what is Labour going to do? Remember what happened with the bond markets when Truss proposed unfunded spending. When Labour came to power 26 years ago, the public finances were in good shape. Not this time around. Growth from the green economy is for the birds as they’ll be fewer jobs permanent jobs created.

[@Josh-iw3md]

Hi Channel Owner, Would you be able to put the date of recording in the title?

[@davidpickard9393]

Alister seems to show his political leanings rather more strongly than Rory who seems more even handed

[@verityviolet]

Nah Rory always ends up showing his Tory colours when pressed.

[@annettekearney9798]

No he’s a Tory apologist esp May and sunak.

[@chipsellarole267]

Existing to lay traps. Brilliant.

[@webMonkey_]

They expose their privilege here by talking about Ireland and not understanding when people cannot get housing and other essentials that people turn to extremist ideology. Sure it’s successful if you already have housing and have never experienced the stress of not being able to get housing or access to other essential services. The centre and left need to get real about housing it’s the biggest stress in society for those of a working and middle class nature.

[@artvandelay3922]

Totally agree. Easy when you have a hope of housing you can afford

[@judithdurrant4111]

Slight correction regarding the Mona Lisa in the Louvre: it was given to François I. by Leonardo da Vinci

[@jakobfromthefence]

Oh Rory. Calling a break on the windmills 😂😂

[@mtb5778]

I cannot recall the last time I heard the word BRIO used in a sentence. great stuff.

[@PMMagro]

Mona Lisa was finished in France by Da Vinci as guest of the French king, France later bought the finished painting (from the painter or his apprentice)? Ff that is comparable with the British diplomat removing nice parts of an existing ancient building in Athens... Finders keepers indeed.

[@cinemaipswich4636]

What we used to call the common market, Free Trade, and the Customs Union will be the first things Labor will do. The UK does not need to adjust any of its current laws to comply with those standards.

[@harrydebastardeharris987]

This awful Tory Government is Unpopulist not Populist.

[@paulmaggs3212]

I think they were originally looking at a mechanism to lend it back to the Greeks in exchange for other artifacts…looks like that idea has fallen apart

[@bookie5667]

My late grandfather was a manual worker. His jobs included working in a coal mine, and working in a power station. He was a massive Labour supporter - the sort of voter Labour could count on at each election .... However, he was also a racist and sexist. I suspect a lot of his peers shared his views. IMO Labour has moved away from him, ie their "traditional" base. Over recent years Labour has (rightly) made progress on issues like race / women's rights / LGBTQ+ rights etc. I wonder who my grandfather would vote for today if he was still alive.

[@alihaidar2094]

Please interview Gwyn Bevan of the LSE, his new book “How Did Britain Come to This? A century of systemic failures of governance” directly touches on topics you discuss on your podcast

[@Kronos_LordofTitans]

I am somewhat sympathetic to the idea that historical artifacts are better protected in western countries, but that just doesn't apply to greece

[@mtb5778]

WHERE IS THIS LEAD IN PROGRAMME? put the link on your page. these lead in interviews are not showing up in my KZbin feed.

[@elizabethfitzgibbon3908]

Love your talks.

[@user-oo8xp2rf1k]

I'm a bit populist - a little influenced by culture war issues - a little less trusting that the bbc is has the liberal humanist values as I once might have assumed were it's life blood. But I suspect that populist inclined people like me - are here to play for. The populist right possibly contains liberal humanists like me who have lost trust that the mainstream are still liberal humanist at their core. That's why I'm listening to Rory. I'm casting round for alternatives. I want to be in the centre.

[@DEFDEF9]

Rory is Establishment through and through. Make the break and join the people who have seen through all these people.

[@elizabethfitzgibbon3908]

Also stand up for wind farms on land, which is far cheaper than on the sea. Do away with “N.I.M.B.Yard”..

[@matthewhall4995]

Name dropping!

[@mtb5778]

It is clear to all people working in public services including myself in the NHS that we are in a position of managed decline. Everything is steadily being cut to the bone. Many services dealing with low moral and high sickness rates and people in a stage of burnout and running on empty. I remember under Thatcher huge long waiting lists. It was Gordon Brown and Tony Blair who changed the NHS and invested heavily. The Tories have continuously said they are increasing funding but this is never felt on the ground. Labour brought in a new GP contract with a quality and outcomes framework and Labour brought in the 2 week wait system for suspected cancers. I have seen no great improvement under the tories. Doctors being replaced with Nurses, Doctors assistants, paramedics and allied staff. The PCN is just a failure with GPs pocketing money as income that was destined for front line services. The system is no longer a patient care first organisation. Very sad that Hunt played politics and gave money away instead of helping boost the NHS, police, prisons and schools. England is slowly declining into a failed state.

[@danielwebb8402]

But nhs budget has increased since 2010. 20% in real terms from 2010 to pre pandemic. Much more since. So it may not have felt it but facts are it has. £ is it has.

[@adamfrankowski2768]

Prisoners should be given the vote. Then, prison conditions would improve dramatically.

[@XenothGaming]

Look at Sinn Féin in both North and South of Ireland, most popular party by votes but not as yet in government.

[@lublondon]

Regardless of the outcome, one appreciates an adult and grown ups discussion

[@joemulhall5202]

Sinn Fein are not the only political party in Ireland that is populist. All the major parties have done this particularly Fianna Fail, in the run up to elections. It appears to be the nature of how we do politics in Ireland ! Generally, in recent years, on election these populist ideas get watered down in negotiations to form governments. Sinn Fein, despite their apparent electoral support, are very unlikely to have enough support to form a government on their own due to the PR system in place. So they will probably try first to get coalition partners from the left first, however they tend to be a fractous lot, and this attempt failed last time. Sinn Fein should have more seats next election so it may make a 'Government of the Left' more attainable but still a much more unstable proposition then the current government.If negotiations for a government of the left fails, or for a more stable government, Sinn Fein will probably then look to Fianna Fail with some left leaning independent TDs (MPs). That will require modification to Sinn Feins manifesto. Expect radical front line policies on a border poll, reductions in existing limited committments in evolving European common defence policy and increased focus (spending) on housing and the health service to remain but not so much on radical changes to the economy. Membership of the Euro makes radical changes to taxation and expenditure difficult for an Irish government and I'mnit sure Sinn Fein fully appreciate this hard fact yet. Not sure how good Sinn Fein would be in real government, as they have never been in the position to have to make difficult unpopular decisions for the good of the country at the expense of support from their community before, even in Northern Ireland. Be a real test to see if they are just a shallow party of protest or has the guts to do the hard work an represent the entire nation fairly in the interests of the whole country. Fianna Fail did that in the 1930's when it transitioned from the political wing of the hard republican anti treaty losing side in the Irish Civil War to a government that dominated Irish politics until 2011.

[@andrewfrancis3591]

The economic argument is simple. Has the Conservative policy worked?

[@user-ln1qw2vh2d]

Nice to hear Meloni pronounced like Malloney!

[@suzanne6441]

None of us would have anything if it all went back - no multiculturalism, the Met would be very sad - it would be as empty as Moma, which is a great place for lunch but not hours of discovery. I've been to London a few times but not Greece. I was happy to see the Elgin Marbles. And you know Greece would never give them back in a loan program, it would be a trade program. My 13 year old vehemently disagrees with me on this btw.

[@suzanne6441]

with some exceptions - Guernica was at Moma when I was young, that seems like a right minded return.

[@giorgiobilli855]

There is no parallel between the Elgin marbles and Mona Lisa. Italy has no right to claim to Mona Lisa because Leonardo himself brought it to France when he moved there to work for the French king Francis I. Leonardo might have brought it finished or completed it in France. Francis paid for the painting. Incidentally, in Leonardo’s time Italy was no political entity.

[@michaelmcqueen4514]

I would love to see Nigel Farage on their show

[@garynoble4320]

I really don't want to give fascist farage anotherr platform to spout his hate

[@farzanamughal5933]

I'm not sure if he'd go on

[@DEFDEF9]

They wouldn't have him on because he would demolish their Establishment spin.

[@struancochrane753]

No matter who is in power come 12 months time, they face the same issues, a health and social care sector drawing on funds like an inter galactic black hole.

[@shanemurphy8682]

Would it kill them to time code this

[@lewis123417]

I wonder if alastair would describe corbyn as a populist if he considers wet sunak as a populist 😂

[@susanbaker7282]

Sunak is doing more damage to this country than anyone before him The dream of Freeport's SEZs Charter cities is coming to fruition The complete deregulation of workers and environmental rights won't exist This is taking the country to hell

[@niahays1042]

Having listened to your content for a few months now. Forgive me, I'm slowly becoming accustomed to the notion that one ought not to presume that bad faith actors are not always.

[@kevoreilly6557]

Income based tax cuts are good; Wealth tax is the way to go if you want to pay for a Caring Society

[@lublondon]

Obviously, what was commonly appropriate 100 or 150 years ago isn’t any more …. Unless it suits us … right ?

[@welshgruff]

Give the Parthenon matbles back to Greece.

[@krisjill5918]

I have long since thought what Hollande said, re: Brexit as peak populaism. I compare it to a catharsis, where we got it all out, and then came to terms with what that all really meant. If ever we wished to seperate ourselves from Europe, then it is preicsely in this moment: no, as before, we will not follow their nationalist and fascist trajectories. I believe Britian is at its truest when moderate, and stoic. For whatever ills these isles have committed - many, of coure - that long-standing sense of fair play, privacy, freedom, tolerance, but also respect for law, calm, order, have long set this nation apart from others. Not to mention its creativity, love for eccentricity, and its general regard for the undergod. A bit of romanticism, most cetainly, but a grain of truth therein, no?

[@TheMighty_T]

Rory, I'm (surprisingly) with Alister on this; I've never seen a more populist ultra-right government in power in the UK. Braverman is as disgusting and un-hinged as any populist you could offer up from around the world, and I have serious concerns for the safety and rationality of the UK going forward if this is the calibre and type of politician that can sit in mainstream politics in the UK. We are in 'Mosley' territory here, not too much of a stretch.

[@DEFDEF9]

Rishi is an Establishment puppet and Suella has resigned because she was ignored by the Establishment. Rishi was installed against the wishes of the Tory membership after Liz Truss. who was 50% populist, was removed in an Establishment coup because she threatened Net Zero, low growth, high taxes and all the other Establishment agendas.

[@anthonyferris8912]

The terms under which the BM was given the marbles are very clear. They were to be kept together and called the 'Elgin Marbles'. So if the museum break any of those terms, they forfeit ownership. So if the Greek PM wants to discuss getting the marbles, he needs to speak to their owners, the BM. It's fck all to do with Sunak or Starma.

[@mtb5778]

We need cheaper energy to improve the economy. We need to invest in green energy. We need to have energy security.

[@andyevans8585]

Honestly the insanely rich keep getting richer, the poor keep getting poorer but what people fail to see is that those that WERE financially "middle class" are now struggling as well. 5 years ago I might have £500-£600 spare a month. Now I'm just hanging on financially. Nothing has changed in how I live, but the COST of everything has drained every bit of disposable income I have.

[@andrewharrison7767]

the tax burden is a false statistic for individual finances; as is shown by citing frozen income tax thresholds, but ignoring the cut in ni comes after the ni threshold was increased last year - the biggest hit on take home pay comes from inflation, largely energy spikes from ukrainem & covid recovery. Interestingly alistair & labour spent most of 2000-16 telling us european free movement didn't supress native wages - but happily tell us labour shortages increase inflation through payrises..

[@the500mphtortoise]

I dont understand how rory is a conservative. I agree with him that brexit is terrible but he seems a liberal on almost every issue. Its very dissapapointing to not have any defence of britain keeping the objects in the british museum.

[@Mike-rr2ni]

Rory is a liberal left, in Thatchers day a 'wet'... Hence the failing UK and it's decline

[@buckynick]

Rory's playing for power.

[@kierancabana2970]

Rory is an old school Burkian Conservative. The dominant faction in the Conservative party rarely conserves anything nowadays.

[@hamsterminator]

Every party has a wide membership. I suspect he is simply neutral on the Marbles, and therefore would go with consensus.

[@bigbarry8343]

i dont understand. shouldn't democratic governments be populist?

[@mtb5778]

laying traps = emptying the public coffers by handing out money in tax cuts. tax cuts that incentivise research and development is excellent.

[@veeday1146]

Aljazeera deserves as many shout outs as it can get. Far superior to our home grown news platforms it reaches the subjects that BBC and others can’t be bothered or are not allowed to go. I watch it every day and am always shocked at the suffering and atrocities in the world that the powers that be think we shouldn’t know about. Even more patronising when often so much of a bulletin is wasted on celebrity ‘news’ as if we were all stupid airheads who enjoy such garbage.

[@minimango1]

Ireland has always a racist country. As an irish person i ashamed to say that. A continuous rotation of racial hatred is a broad stipe that runs through the character of the people. It was the english, then africans/ blacks, then polish, now Ukrainians. Wealth is not a factor here. This is cultural.

[@tisFrancesfault]

The marbles are british by ownership, they were brought for. But if they must be returned, im sure Ankara would be happy to have them. The argument that people did deals centuries ago, that you may dislkie is hardly an argumentive position.

[@justhannah3960]

It's not that the deal was done and we don't like it. It's that the deal was done by an occupying force (the Ottomans). They had no right to be selling stuff that didn't belong to them. So now it's definitely time to be giving them back, along with other nation's treasures plundered in the name of empire.

[@tisFrancesfault]

​@@justhannah3960it wasn't an occupying force. The ottomans just ruled Greece, and at that point for centuries. And Ottoman rule of Greece was recognised by the European governments, by the right of controlling Greece, till they didn't. In short, the ottomans were the legal government.

[@verityviolet]

no they were 'bought' from Ottoman occupiers of Greece. Learn your history.

[@tisFrancesfault]

@@verityviolet no, as said. The ottomans were the legitimate rulers of that territory. And it's really silly to say it was occupied, as that at very best would be a (generally contested) temporary affair, if being generous a few decades or so, not 350 years..

[@spankflaps1365]

At some point all these ex British icons will be politicised, and demanded back from USA/Canada: Concordes x3, Avro Vulcans x10, Avro Lancaster, Gresley A4 locos x2, RMS Queen Mary. (Unfortunately none of the above can be moved, we have nowhere to put them, and that’s why they’re all over there.)

[@petababcock-kwint9574]

Wilders hates Islam and it is personal. Sukarno in the late 40s threw out all the indo's (mixed race) and the tok toks (white people). Indonesia is 95% Muslim. Wilders is an indo and will never forgive his home country for being thrown out.

[@lairddougal3833]

The Parthenon marbles (I refuse to call them by the name of the latter day English thief who stole and then sold them in a divorce settlement) are Greek and belong to Greece. The argument ends there. The whole “protecting a world heritage from the depredations of war” is historical and patronising tosh. If the Greeks want to grind them up a make them into egg timers that is their affair, not that they would. How typically arrogant to suggest that only the English can preserve another nation’s heritage. You still have mokomokai (preserved Maori heads) taken from New Zealand by English botanist Joseph Banks. Why? And why have they not been returned? It is a living affront to modern Maori. Are they unfit to deal with the remains of their ancestors. The retention of ill-gotten loot from the days of Empire has now got more to do with a desperate clinging to the nonsense that Britain still matters than it has with any sense of historical guardianship. Give the marbles (and the mokomokai) back and quick sticks! There’s more honour in that than clinging to a stolen past.

[@NMY232]

Some context on the riot in Dublin.. It was likely started by a few far right thugs, but it would not be correct to classify the rest as generally "far-right" or anti-immigrant. Teenagers and young men from the north inner city joined in, happy enough for any excuse to steal stuff, attack the cops and cause general mayhem. Pathetic opportunistic thug behavior that was enabled by the complete unpreparedness of the Irish police, but not so much "far right". For a majority of them, they'd be devastated by the cuts to their social welfare that an actual right-wing govt would bring, also doubtful that they even vote.

[@danielwebb8402]

Exactly. Same as BLM riots. Is criminals, not people with a political opinion. Why's it always Nike and tv stores that need punishing? Why don't they protest against a book or stationary shop?

[@BenMooreBeanmimo]

Declan Walsh is indeed doing great work (fyi he is irish).

[@susanb4816]

Wind turbines draw tourists and do not blight the views

[@lewis123417]

Has alastair forgot suella was sacked from government?

[@alexmalex82]

Agreed we pander a lot to the right. HIGNFY gave free publicity to Farage in the early years.

[@DEFDEF9]

The BBC and the Establishment deliberately promoted Farage and UKIP in order to destroy the BNP after it won two seats in the European Parliament. It backfired on the Establishment when Farage convinced the people to vote for Brexit. Farage boasts about it. But, notice that now the BBC never has Farage on anymore because the Establishment no longer need him and now want to actively discourage his populist appeal.

[@soonpohtay4794]

UK has no legal legs to stand on wrt stolen goods.😅😅😅

[@RoonilWazlib011]

I like Rory, but I think he is far too optimistic and soft-minded about the compatibility of Islam and the western values he so treasures. Quite amazed actually at the blatant, slap-dash labelling of 'far-right' onto someone who may basically have traditionally liberal and socially 'progressive' values, and yet is merely aware and intolerant of the evident intolerance significant parts of Islamic culture show in turn towards these values. I am struggling not to feel despair at the wilful ignorance of certain unpleasant facts about the level of intolerance, disrespect and disdain for assimilation that a significant proportion of Muslims in the UK openly display. I love the idea of tolerance and respect for all, but it has to work both ****ing ways or you are just spiralling yourself down into a measurably worse society. You really do sound silly calling people who simply care to protect the liberal freedoms of western societies 'far-right'. Wake up, Alistair.

[@Joker-yw9hl]

This.