The Copyright Dilemma - On Trademarks, Copyrights, and Patents - Extra Credits

Trademark and copyright play important roles in the gaming industry. The need to defend trademarks has spurred many companies to undertake unpopular lawsuits. On the other hand, attempts to copyright or patent game designs have been rejected, which allows developers to incorporate new ideas into their own work but leaves them unprotected from clone games.
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[@TheBassManBoy]

"Just let the Modders Fix It" This needs to be an actual mug

[@discussedmeats]

Only if it includes the Bethesda Trademark. That's the homerun swing.

[@Faifstarr]

And they would, not a problem, just release a good base game on an optimal engine with a broad toolkit.

[@ginkner]

Only if the mug has a hole in the bottom.

[@TsukiShimizu]

I laughed SO hard at that mug. I want one where it says "Just let the community Fix it" and then I'll start open source development :P

[@RothAnim]

The actual mug would have to be missing most of the handle.

[@KGDHMF]

That burn at 1:50, " Just let the modders fix it " . shots fired.

[@masonsilvers6789]

lol

[@jfb-]

Why is the mouse plugged into the keyboard?

[@dhiegov]

@@jfb- simplicity

[@talongreenlee7704]

“It’s wrong, but you have to do it because that’s how the law works” is just about the definition of an unjust law.

[@yellowstarproductions6743]

I agree

[@tekbox7909]

I think it's rather an imperfect law. Basically what happens is that they need to sue them so the court can then tell them that this specific case does not count as infringing and thus needs not be defended. So in the end this is just a very complicated and expensive way to get a judge to say don't worry this won't cost you your trademark. Honestly maybe there could be a way to make a smaller version where companies can go to to get this insurance without having to go to court which would probably help a lot with this kind of stuff. basicaly just a place you go andd say I'm worried that not suing these guys over this title will make me lose my trademark and then you can basically get a written document that says don't worry that would be stupid this can't be used against you.

[@Nakamako1]

copyrighting is not to protect you. its to push the industry forward. the whole concept of an idea belonging to you without pushing the industry forward is imoral to me.

[@Nakamako1]

examples of bad copyright are the loading screen mini games in dbz or almost any copyright nintendo has and the nemesis system in shadow of mordor

[@itaybron]

i'm still salty for namco bandai holding the patent on having mini games during loading screens

[@bobertbrown4915]

THEY DO? FUCK! I was just thinking yesterday how cool it was when there was something to do during loading screens. Hell, Budokai 2 or 3 had that stupid thing with the Saibamen and that was almost as fun to compete against friends with as the actual game. Sometimes.

[@coastersplus]

It expired last year, though, actually. A bunch of people did a game jam with them. Then they were kind of forgotten again.

[@itaybron]

it needs to be a feature in more games, especially games with long load times or lots of down time.

[@InfernalLawyer]

Are you serious? Would certainly explain why the closest thing I've seen to a minigame recently was the ability to rotate a character model in Skyrim...

[@TheRexTera]

...and they didn't user it in Bloodborne that have 23 hours load-times>.

[@DragoniteSpam]

"Cease and desist for the following: '2' - Valve" Wow, guys.

[@someoneelse5020]

Well maybe they can't make the games with 3 in the title because someone copyrighted it.

[@billyjonessmithson2496]

+The welsh Yoshi yup nintendo

[@SomeGuy-cn5vm]

+isaiah Muse And some other company copyrighted all numbers above 3, forcing Nintendo to name all Mario games "New" followed by the name of the system.

[@cyberrb25]

But they created Super Mario Bros. 3... And Metroid Prime 3... And... EDIT IN CASE OF Super Mario Galaxy 3

[@DragoniteSpam]

Some Guy Maybe that would explain why they skipped the ordinals for Mario Kart until MK7 . . .

[@twerdeffan1080]

It's nice to see how the comments will React™ to this.

[@pauliussip6956]

Did you get permission to use the 'R' Word? Pay up!

[@dddtl]

You wouldn't reimplement an API…

[@ProfessorSyndicateFranklai]

I represent Fine Brothers™ and I have the right to sue, Alex Ander here has paid a hefty sum, but you sir, Crimson Syndrome, you have not paid to use the letter "R", see you in court buddy.

[@longdeadchannel8311]

They revoked the trademark

[@Nosirrbro]

Stop using this joke. It is old, boring and a show of your comedic incompetence.

[@extrahistory]

You can't patent a game design, and that's good. But it comes at a high cost sometimes.

[@cthulhucy]

Agreed :D

[@NietzscheanMan]

research a guy named stephan kinsella (ip lawyer), it will become a lot less confusing :)

[@tasoganedude]

I actually do feel sorry when the original creator is outshined by others who ripped them off of their ideas, because they have more money or more fame.

[@harvz0100]

Just curious, what about that dynasty warriors patent (US6729954) which seems to basically patent the fighting style (Which is basically the genre)?

[@AntonAdelson]

Well. Let me understand you correctly: you provided only two examples of this "high cost" in the video, right? One being me-too clones in the app stores and the second one is big companies copying ideas from indie developers and making more money of them. I disagree that they are big problems at all! The first one is just like having thousands of poor quality romance movies out there because of the tried and tested: "they are too different for each other - they get together - something makes them break up - they get together again " formula. All of those movies are not hurting anyone and only providing work for people who would otherwise have no work in their chosen fields. And the second one is not a problem because I'd like to argue that the money the bigger comany makes only HELPS the indie developer with their game because that much more popular A A A published game acts as a marketing tool for the smaller indie game.

[@the11382]

"Just let the modders fix it" Haha, so true. +1

[@arvidbergman]

Why did you write +1?

[@blake-81]

The ''Entire AAA Game Industry'' Mug.....

[@MrBones-cu1vi]

don't think he understands how "reply works" there another comment saying that

[@YX33A]

It's not a bug, is a thing for the community to mess around with!

[@Faifstarr]

The comment was seen before but this one is a better clickbait

[@RoronoaZoroSensei]

nice explanation on why idiotic lawsuits happen thanks! also, great facial expression on Valve's cease & Desist order :D

[@ProfessorSyndicateFranklai]

Go see john oliver for more stupid lawsuits.

[@jasonblalock4429]

I'm a little surprised you guys didn't mention the infamous Namco loading-screen-minigame patent, which is probably the best possible argument AGAINST allowing game design elements to be patented. At least that piece of BS is finally expired. Otherwise, as far as the cloning problem goes... In 99% of cases, the clones are terrible knock-offs with no advertising that only exist to rip off the most low-information of buyers. And in the rare case that a bigger company steals a smaller company's idea, at least the little guys still have bragging rights and can make claims that they inspired the big-name game or whatnot. They might not get the sales, but they can at least claim the cred.

[@sceshaaeial2681]

Cred doesn't keep the lights on. Sales do.

[@cireeeeeX]

+Scesha Aeial Just as an artist cannot pay the bills with "exposure".

[@jasonblalock4429]

But since there isn't a better solution to the problem, a dev getting ripped off might as well work with what they've got and try to make the most of it. Sitting around complaining does even less to keep the lights on.

[@Fayti1703]

Not to mention that the patent was invalid, yet everyone seemed to respect it.

[@user-oe5sj5hr8v]

What's wrong with Namco patenting loading-screen-minigame if anything that forces everyone else to have as little loading screens as possible. ᵗʰᵉ ʷᵃʸ ᶦᵗ ˢʰᵒᵘᶫᵈ ᵇᵉ⋅⋅⋅

[@andersonandrighi4539]

You know what you guys need? To call a lawyer about this very subject. The same way Daniel did animation, James did design, it is time to call a lawyer to explain what are the legal aspects of selling a game. Also you need one more episode about this game professions about sound artists (SFX and original soundtrack). C'mon this is one field everyone is interested in... Or is just me. Ok?! Fine by me.

[@Jedibob5]

Wait, the "J" in "Mojang" is pronounced like a "Y?" I've apparently been pronouncing it wrong for YEARS...

[@ElNeroDiablo]

Swedish. That and in days long past there was no such thing as a "J" or a "U" in the Alphabet (particularly the Latin one), as "I" was used where we'd use a "J" or "Y" nowadays (Yeshua -> Iesous -> Jesus, for example. Or just Yeshua -> Joshua), and "V" did double-duty as "V" & "U" which is why "W" looks like a pair of "V"s slammed together (which is what it literally was).

[@PsychoNerd92]

It can be pronounced both ways. Notch has said on Twitter that he pronounces it like "Mojang" in English and like "Moyang" in Swedish.

[@TheVergile]

you mean "Jears"

[@Jerry_licious]

We avoid it by calling it BugJump in China. Which here means: lots of bugs and delay updates.

[@dagbackerud7316]

No its not 😀

[@iprobablyforgotsomething]

You know, you guys make things I have no background knowledge or general interest in so accessible and interesting that I'm almost baffled by how well you do this. I'd watch longer videos on these subjects just as long as EC's the one making them.

[@HybridDivide]

Hey Extra Credits! What's your stance on fan games like Pokemon Uranium and AM2R? Fan games that are made out of love, not for profit. (They're free!) Would you agree that Nintendo HAS to defend their trademarks in this type of situation? And if so, then maybe explain how games like Megaman x Street Fighter, Megaman Unlimited, and a multitude of Sonic fan games are allowed to exist without Capcom and Sega losing their hold on their trademarks. Could Nintendo have gone in another direction that allows them to assert their rights over their IP, while still allowing these great fan games to still exist? Would make for a good topic, as it has a LOT of people really frustrated with Nintendo right now. Thanks.

[@Jazztache]

That would be an interesting topic, shame EC hasn't made a vid on fangames. I guess their modding video covered similar topics, but not really. Also I'm 4 years late to the partly. :)

[@AegixDrakan]

THAT "let the modders fix it" MUG. THAT MUG! XD

[@W4ldgeist]

A quote from an article on the ludicrous notion that you have to "defend" your trademark against everyone at anytime or you loose it: "The circumstances under which a company could actually lose a trademark-such as abandonment and genericide-are quite limited. Genericide occurs when a trademark becomes the standard term for a type of good (‘zipper’ and ‘escalator’ being two famous examples)." Source: www.eff.org/deeplinks/2013/11/trademark-law-does-not-require-companies-tirelessly-censor-internet

[@ObserveTheCelestial]

I think the point was that the second you let a company use your title then every company that you sue for being a blatant rip-off could just point towards that other company and say something like, "but you let them do it!" I'm not saying that it's warranted for companies to tirelessly defend their trademark, but rather that sometimes their paranoia holds some water. Even if the actual amount wouldn't be enough to quench the thirst of an ant.

[@bunnybreaker]

I need that Harry Potter, Obama, Sonic backpack. I live in China so may even be able to find it :P

[@Johna-cv9gu]

Good luck my friend

[@Aging_Casually_Late_Gamer]

Really, it just shows that our legal system is a joke and whoever has the most money will almost always win regardless. I also really hate this slippery slope mentality that if you don't sue someone that is vaguely in the same genre as your game then you can't sue someone who blatantly rips off your game. Like we can't use common sense for some reason and see which is clone and which isn't.

[@Messilegend1000]

I thought in the given case, you could sue them when suing is not necessary, and ask for a settlement involving 12 Shawarmas delivered to the company or something. But yes, the Law was made with a rather different radical paranoid approach, and has been outdated. The legal system nonetheless IS money-game. So laws will TECHNICALLY only favor the rich.

[@juanmoreno6591]

I think you missunderstood the point, mechanics can't be trademarked, is not that you have to sue someone who has a similar game, it's about the brand, and the reason you have to defend the trademark is technically a good thing, keep in mind that trademarks have to be easily diferentiable which is what makes it possible to defend, to use the example given on the video, let's say bethesda had not take action against mojang for the name "scrolls", then that could have caused two problems: first, mojang would have the capacity to force any future elder scrolls games to change the title, and second, any other company could later on use names much more similar or flat out use the elder scrolls for their games. It's similar to the problem with Harvest Moon/Story of Seasons

[@Nakamako1]

copyrighting is not to protect you. its to push the industry forward. the whole concept of an idea belonging to you without pushing the industry forward is imoral to me.

[@KuraSourTakanHour]

Patenting a gaming design is like patenting a genre of music, absurd. It's how you create genuinely unique ideas, stories, characters, world's and objects from parts anyone can use. Game design is about *how* to make creative content than the content itself, and when you patent the *methods* in this area you cause the inevitable stagnation and death of the market

[@evacody1249]

Let me explain this so you can understand this. First example Babe Ruth there is a copyright so that only his daughter can make money of it now. Why because it's her father she should have the last word in how is likeness is used. Hence these lyrics from the band Kamelot Silent tears in a sea of sorrow. If only God would talk to me and promise me tomorrow. Drowning in myself as I am facing imperfection. But the pain makes me feel I am still alive. In Ravenlight you came to me, from silence rose a symphony of coming winters white. Paralysed, caught in desperation. Endless nights revisiting internal conversations. Finally I made my peace with self intoxication. So I bleed just to know I am not alone. In Ravenlight you came to me, from silence rose a symphony of coming winters white. May light embrace the darkest hour. Let it shine to orchestrate the shadows of the night. In Ravenlight you came to me, from silence rose a symphony of coming winters white. I love the way you sing to me, from silence to a soaring symphony. My rose in winter white! Unless you ask the band and label you have no right to sell the lyrics or music as your own. That's the point of copyright and trade makers.

[@superminion252]

im developing a game with a character with magnetic powers however the design of the character is simalar to magnet bomber from bomberman, but im scared ill get sued for that. can i get sued for having a character look similar to another, im not ripping off the character

[@Soundole]

I really love your discussions of business practices in the gaming industry, they're such important things to be aware of!

[@niboe1312]

I wish that everybody just didn't steal and then there wouldn't have to be any laws Moreover, I wish such an idealistic idea was a realistic goal at all.

[@neeneko]

Something that ads additional complication is sometimes even well meaning actors can 'steal' in this sense. It is one of the dangers of having a workforce that moves from company to company, a well meaning person can take IP with them and not consider the legal issues.

[@kenhall3518]

But what counts as stealing, though? If developer X is inspired by the prior work of developer Y, and goes on to make a much better game than developer X, should they then be allowed to sue the more successful firm simply because they invented the formula, but implemented it poorly? This is the fundamental contradiction in all copyright law: it's trying to draw a firm line of right and wrong on what is inherently a gradient of fairness. How do you protect the right of a content producer to profit from their creation without handing them a monopoly that smothers the potential for competition in this area. I think a public, unbiased forum like the Steam review section is probably the best way to root out 'knock-offs' from legitimate, yet derivative, products. Entertainment and media is one of the few markets that actually self-regulate the way free-market thinkers suggest, and even then only to a small degree. People simply need to be aware of the problem, and see the shades of gray. There never will be a perfect fix.

[@sandflapjack]

Thats a basic principal of the Anarchy political theory

[@tomtinker8220]

in an ideal world, we wouldn't have the need for laws because nothing bad would happen. that can't work because even if you removed all of the current problems, most of them would just resurface just because of our instincts and fears of something we don't fully understand.

[@sonicpsycho13]

However, creating works based on an established IP can yield fantastic results. Sometimes it's an adaptation (LOTR, Avengers, Dracula), remake (Scarface, The Thing, cover songs), re-imagining (Heart of Darkness as Apocalypse Now and Spec Ops The Line, The Seven Samurai as The Magnificent Seven and A Bug's Life), spin-off (Star Wars extended universe).

[@CrescentGuard]

My issue with the trademark thing is that it's too vague. My way of looking at it was always that you shouldn't have to sue someone if the word you use is part of common parlance. Take my hometown's energy drink, Monster. They started trying to knock down anything with the word "Monster" in the title. That's insane. Same goes for this Scrolls thing. I think it would be more a matter of direct, intentional semblance of a popular product that is more useful. For example, in the Monster example, if someone used the green slashes for an M or, for Bethesda, if someone made something called "The Ancient Scrolls."

[@christianhansen2569]

The companies probably realize that, but under the law they have to defend trademarks or risk losing it. Even if it's knee jerk reactions, if they don't strike down things with the word "Monster", someone who is actually looking to steal the trademark could walk up to a judge and say "they didn't defend it in these instances, so it's fair game for us to use it." You're right that it's often too vague, but it's more done out of not wanting to take the risk of losing the trademark.

[@teriinekoyama1369]

The key is the use of the trademark within a certain boundary, like food/drink products. Having a trademark like that within a certain kind of space and defending it is the key, hence the 'scrolls' C&D (even if it was being used on a game that's not even close). The word was trademarked around the works of video games (and other interactive media), so they did have to make a show of it. Otherwise, you have an interesting case like when 'Superman' was in the public domain for a hot minute decades ago, LOL.

[@CrescentGuard]

Christian Hansen Oh, I was criticizing the law, not the companies. Generally speaking I mean. Like you and EC said, the companies are just playing it safe from the legal side.

[@pkeros]

Monster is a valid trademark for an energy drink because it is fanciful (yes, that's the legal term)--it's not describing an actual monster, but a beverage. And for beverages, because Monster has been used as a source-identifier for that company, enforcement would be valid. But they couldn't go after monster.com, a job searching website, because the beverage company has no rights for the website. See also Cadillac cars and Cadillac coffee. Scrolls is tricky because it's not descriptive (a video game is not a scroll), but it's not really fanciful either since it describes objects depicted in the game. I have my doubts that Bethesda could enforce "Scrolls" based on "Elder Scrolls" without some clear evidence that the term "Scrolls" on its own is considered a source-identifier to Bethesda. I don't think that is the case, so it would not likely work. For the same reason, calling your game "Scrolls" in the first place would probably not be a very strong trademark.

[@EebstertheGreat]

It's not really a "myth," it just tends to be exaggerated by hyperactive policing. Allowing a trademark to be widely misused by third parties without trying to protect it _can_ cause the trademark to lose distinctiveness. In extreme cases, that can lead to genericide, but more frequently it simply leads to a weak trademark that isn't always associated with the company in the public's mind. As the International Trademark Association puts it: " *Failure to Police* "Trademark rights may also be lost when a trademark owner fails effectively to police its mark against eroded distinctiveness, which may occur as a result of the presence of confusingly similar third-party marks in the market. For example, if many third parties subsequently begin using the same or a similar mark in commerce in connection with goods and/or services similar to the trademark owner’s after the owner has already begun to use its trademark, and the owner does little or nothing to police its mark, the mark is likely to lose some or all of its value as a source identifier in the marketplace. As a result, the trademark will become weaker, and in some cases it may lose its distinctiveness entirely. "To help avoid such adverse consequences, the trademark owner should police its mark by enforcing its trademark rights through various legal means, such as (a) sending demand letters, (b) initiating opposition or cancellation proceedings with administrative entities, (c) proceeding with litigation in the courts and/or (d) entering into licensing and/or other agreements with third parties, as may be appropriate under the circumstances. While some courts have determined that a trademark owner need not necessarily prosecute every infringing third-party use of its mark, such third-party uses can still affect the distinctiveness of the mark in the mind of the public. The optimal policing and enforcement efforts for particular marks may vary with the particular circumstances involved, such as the nature and importance of the mark, the nature of the trademark owner and the size of its legal budget, and the number and nature of the potential third-party trademark infringements."

[@Doctorgeo7]

I'm so glad you finally made a video discussing this. 1:52 Nice poke at Bethesda with that mug

[@thewoollyviking5928]

1:54 that mug, it screams brutal honesty... I love you Bethesda but Talos damn...

[@unvergebeneid]

It's a bit weird to use Candy Crush Saga as an example when they seemed to have ripped off ... uhm, I mean have been inspired by CandySwipe themselves.

[@LeeLemon008]

Yeah that's the point, they can't patent game mechanics so you get ripoffs. I'm not sure about Bejeweled being "just another" match-three game, but it's certainly been around much longer than the likes of Candy Crush. _Edit:_ After a very brief google search, it seems that Bejeweled was at least the game that popularised match-three, if not actually the first (which would need more research to determine).

[@pinkwings8036]

Well, at least its hard to confuse Candy Crush and Bejeweled. Yeah they're the same mechanic, but they are definitely two separate games at least in appearance. He's talking about official Candy Crush and the countless match three candy games that have flooded the market.

[@MaJuV]

But you forgot to mention companies that abuse these things. Like Popcap and King. Stealing other people's games, making success their own and then and then sueing people that use similar games like the ones they stole...

[@ProfessorSyndicateFranklai]

Not to worry, I have mini nuclear bomb and I know how to use it.

[@ScarletFame]

Freaking scumbags :/

[@Lovehandels]

Popcap has been doing that? For shame! :(

[@jasonlastname3174]

Did you watch all the way through?

[@washableburrito1995]

+Jason Lastname do you really need to ask that?

[@houseofcrazyman865]

Great video, it helped shed some light on a few of the more... ridiculous lawsuits I've seen slung around in the industry. Also, great Chrono Trigger music at the end! Brought back some great memories :D

[@codediporpal]

Wow, you so perfectly summarized the major conflicts in the philosophy of intellectual property. In a gaming context, but it applies pretty much everywhere.

[@Nakamako1]

copyrighting is not to protect you. its to push the industry forward. the whole concept of an idea belonging to you without pushing the industry forward is imoral to me.

[@binsoku6]

wait, go back, what was that foreign TF2 we saw? I want to know more about THAT!

[@daramain]

Some chinese bootleg. Every weapon "unlock" is behind a paywall, characters never shut up. You can't even rocket jump as chinese nazi soldier

[@Krascth]

+Bonk Addict you can't rocketjump? This is even below the usual "bootleg" status.

[@purplepoint9357]

I think it said final combat on the bottom of the image.

[@jerry855202]

fc.xunlei.com/ that's the link to the game

[@drewbruggman]

I think the app store and Steam greenlight section are pretty suspect for this. That said: I was always a big fan of Megaman, and i don't see Capcom going back to the original formula that made me a fan when I was a kid. If I see a 3rd party developer re-hash that formula, I'm in support of that, because it means I get to play more games within that genre, and that makes me a happy camper.

[@williamelmore4100]

Drew Bruggman s

[@AnnaBloom972]

holy shit, the artwork is getting better and better. Excellent work!

[@Caleb-bp8bm]

I just found u guys and I love how u make ur vids entertaining while also informative.

[@deusexmachina101]

who else stopped at 5:07 to really compere the 2 posters?

[@thepinkertons823]

Maaaaaan. That Bethesda mug.

[@Ekybob_Plays]

More than usual, art was seriously on point this episode. Well done!

[@Figaroblue]

The animations on this video made me LOL at least 4 times. Good on you.

[@hagamablabla]

I think one important reform we need for copyright is changing what copyright is supposed to be for. In the US Constitution, it's made very clear that copyright is supposed to be for promoting more art and inventions to be made, not to let people stake a claim so they can make money off of art or inventions. However, as most people can see, we've shifted very much to the latter. Give the copyright office the jurisdiction to make decisions on whether giving someone a copyright would cause more content to be created, and hand out those copyrights based on that. Also, I very much agree that game designs are not should not have copyrights. I can't copyright cubism or noir film, so I also shouldn't be allowed to copyright MOBAs or updating stats.

[@dstblj5222]

copy right and trademark are not the same thiing

[@autolykos9822]

I don't think the argument of "copyright/patents protect small companies/inventors from getting their ideas stolen by large companies" really cuts it. To enforce your claims, you need to be able to afford a long and expensive lawsuit with someone who has easily a hundred times your budget, and can drag the case on for years and years in which he will make money from your idea, and you won't. Just ask the inventor of the Walkman how well it protected him against Sony... Copyright and patent law in its current state works between companies of similar size (or for the larger one), but won't do jack for the weaker party. Small players would, in general, be better off with everything being open, so they can at least be safe from patent trolls threatening to shut down their business.

[@mrbunnyban]

OMG, thank you for this episode. The whole scrolls thing made no sense to me until I watched this video.

[@calebtaylor2614]

Great episode. Love it!

[@NomyNomyNomNom]

Perfect opportunity to display Sanic Did not display Sanic 0/10

[@Zaneclodon]

0:25

[@ShadowTheLight]

Is it "MO-jang" "MO-jaang" or "MO-yang" ?

[@Sentinalh]

Yes

[@NickAzn]

moh-yang. the j is pronounced like a y.

[@finaldeluge3674]

Here's your answer: www.minecraftforum.net/forums/off-topic/general-off-topic/410471-how-to-pronounce-mojang-persson-jeb_-jens-etc Notch: I say "moe-djang" in English. In Swedish, I say "moyang" with a hard g and emphasis on the a.

[@samuelbunkly2527]

Sejong.

[@Casmige]

ShadowTheLight Wifey is Taiwanese. The “j” is pronounced indeed with a j sound.

[@pedroscoponi4905]

The coffee mug killed me. "Just let the modders fix it"

[@madmanmaverick6725]

I have been binge watching this channel for the last two weeks while working on my portfolio and it has been awesome. There is a vast wealth of information covered in all these episodes. I have been recommending it to my designer friends, but episodes like Game Compulsion part 3 I think can be applicable to anybody growing up in western culture today. It tackles a deeper social issue, and really aims at the root of the problem. While I'm specializing more as an game Environment Artist, this series has inspired me to develop a board game. These videos are inspirational and reminded me of why I wanted to be apart of this in the first place. Thank you Extra Credits!

[@Kumimono]

Copyrighting languages, what will they think of next... Those Ha'DIbaH's.

[@autolykos9822]

Oh, there is actually a lawsuit about exactly that going on right now: popehat.com/2016/04/28/marc-randazza-wrote-an-amicus-brief-about-klingon-and-its-magnificent/

[@Kumimono]

That's what the Klingon curse was for. :)

[@KurosakiYukigo]

Jari Heiska Hence why loglan failed

[@dalton8435]

"Just let the modders fix it"

[@rohannavalkar112]

ur ep on early chritian schisms was amazing yet complicated like u said.

[@GDelforge]

Dat mug at 1:52... Still laughing haha Great video as always by the way :)

[@johnlienhart2717]

Okay, you need cups. Even if it's just a "Let the modders fix it." cup. Also "Extra History crusade Mad-libs" shirt Why let an apex rajang ruin a good crusade?

[@Maverynthia]

I love how you use Candy Crush which was a clone of a smaller devs game that he was using to raise money for his ailing mom. Only King had the more monies and sued HIM.

[@lordamateur]

This video did have a bit of info about patent, so it cleared some questions I had in mind

[@RasenFemme]

Thought this was going to be about a certain other copyright dilemma, but still a good episode.

[@anon4866]

Who else noticed the Bethesda mod that said "just let the modders fix it"

[@anon4866]

*mug

[@every116]

I wonder why the made the law that you have to defend a trademark to keep it. What reason would they have to make that part of the law?

[@KingOfMadCows]

It's more of a matter of setting precedence. Let's say that someone infringes upon Nike's trademark and Nike decides not to sue. Then the next time someone does it and Nike does decide to sue then that person can say, "you didn't sue the last guy who infringed on your trademark, so you've set a precedence of letting people use your trademark." And it becomes harder for Nike to win that lawsuit.

[@Unk0wnHope]

If you don't defend it, there's no penalty for infringement, meaning infringement on that copyright will spread due to there being no backlash.

[@kreeger7]

probably the same reason they have to use the trademark, if you don't combat the case, then that trademark is free to be used. It's anti hoarding as it's expensive to hold onto loads of trademarks if you have to have a legal battle EVERY time someone marginally encroaches on your label, so it's better to only have a few, rather than many.

[@MrTrollaid]

Because imagine I start selling T-Shirts with Mickey's face over it. Obviously, Disney would want a part of the money that I make since Mickey belongs to them and I obviously ripped them off, so they would sue me and win. Now imagine you draw a quick sketch of a character you just imagined in a notebook. I happen to see it and put it on a shirt that I sell. You notice the shirt and try to sue me for stealing your creation. What do you think would happen? Well, I could just say that I had the idea first or that it was just a coincidence that we had the same design and since there is no proof that I stole your idea because your character isn't exactly a known figure, I would get away with it. And now let's get back to Disney, let's imagine that, while holding the copyright on Mickey they, for some reason, decide to let me sell shirts with his head on it. One day a second person comes up and start to sell his shirts with Mickey's head, since he is making a lot of money and Disney wants some of it, they sue him. Then, incourt, the second guy's lawyer points at me and say : "You let this guy sell his own T-Shirts, so why not us?" And, since the law is supposed to be the same for everyone, he would be right and Disney would have to let them print teir shirts, quickly followed by A LOT of other people taking the occasion to make money of a popular figure without having to pay to use it.. So that's why trademark works the way it does. It's not really a matter of how the laws are made, but more of how they apply and what would happen if companies didn't defend their product.

[@daredaemon8878]

AFAIK It's a natural outgrowth of the fact that a trademark has to be associated with and specific to your product. If it ceases to be such, then it ceases to be a valid trademark. (Not just for you, but for everyone.) I don't think there's technically a law that says you have to defend it every little time, but every time someone infringes and you let it slide it gives people ammo to prove 'hey there's other people using the same phrase/icon/name/whatever in the same context, this is clearly not a trademark at all' and well...

[@ionlymadethistoleavecoment1723]

1:54 I love that mug

[@Keymaster2022]

1:52 Hahaha! That mug is hilarious!

[@isaacthek]

"If you don't defend your trademark you lose legal claim to it" is ... inaccurate. There are very rare circumstances in which that turned out to be the case (kleenex, xerox) because the brand name became the colloquial shorthand for an ENTIRE CLASS of product, but it is NOT the case that "Gee, I need to sue everyone everywhere because otherwise I lose the rights!" Often, trademark suits are used as a form of extortion rather than a legitimate defense of the brand.

[@ElizabethMm315855]

I believe the argument here is to make it as easy as possible to defend legitimate infringement. Yes they could leave other smaller things go, but if that could have even the slightest possibility of biting them on the ass later then why risk it?

[@commode7x]

The reason why an organization would risk it is because it's not profitable to extort money from small-fry. The cases in which not defending a trademark or copyright resulted in its loss by its previous owners has never touched a company of any significant size. If Disney decided to suddenly stop suing toddlers for making crude crayon drawings of Mickey Mouse, there wouldn't be a single company greater than $5000 in hard asset value that would go after Mickey Mouse. Anyone that tried would be sued until they stopped. Either willingly, or due to a lack of money to continue pursuing the property from losing lawsuits to Disney. Many of these companies sue to extort money from schools, governments, or other companies. Protecting their intellectual property is a fringe benefit.

[@InfernalLawyer]

Wait wait wait, Disney is suing toddlers for making drawings of their characters? What?

[@kin2naruto]

Actually a consumer-friendly fix to the "cloning" problem would be a better search engine. If there was a reliable way to sort by "kinda like this game" and "simular to" and "EXTREMELY simular to" with production dates in nice large font.... Consumers would quickly learn the to favor the earliest and most original version of games. Unless the gap in time was enough years for an updated version to make sense. Or they already had the original and wanted more levels from a decent look-alike. Customer reviews combined with that sorting system would be very helpful - especially to small companies that could then take ADVANTAGE of the larger companies marketing budget by having their title listed as "earlier". Would be particularly nice if you bring up game search results in a Venn Diagram format instead of a list. Menus can work like that in game - why not the menus for game store apps?

[@williamelmore4100]

kin2naruto s

[@Bobsican]

So basically simply give it a creative enought name so it´s the first result when looking it up in the internet?

[@arvidbergman]

This. This is the only channel I can get early to.

[@ballroomscott]

It's very interesting that you post this as the CBX/Paramount vs Axanar debacle is coming to a close.

[@dialaskisel5929]

I need to see about copyrighting my favorite pieces of punctuation.

[@ProfessorSyndicateFranklai]

I already did.

[@MrMagma-tf1yp]

That period is a registered patent of Magma Industries. We are hereby suing you for the sum of one billion United States Dollars.

[@ProfessorSyndicateFranklai]

We are sorry, I'm afraid I have already patented the writing system. Feel free to pay in cash, oh, and I patented paying in cash as well, not digitally though, somebody else got to it first, so now I'm afraid that I'm going to settle, but afterwords, believe me I'll sue every penny back and then some.

[@In-The-Zone]

Please do one of Overwatch's porn and blizzards response. Not because of the porn but what this means for fair use now. If they can take down and go after people who make up new animations for the models and new scenarios for the characters, what is to stop them from going after lets players. just talking over a game isn't as transforming as the porn and this could now make a precedence .

[@wschippr1]

Let's plays have always been a legal grey area. However, since theirs been such a long history of precedence and them not lifting a finger to stop it they'd probably lose their case if challenged. Besides most analyst say lp actually help a video game title not hurt it so there is no reason to stop it.

[@In-The-Zone]

Wade Schipprack except unlike this porn there is revenue involved with lets plays. A case could be made they can allow lets plays but claim the revenue or a sizable chunk of it. Just because lets plays have been a grey area and free reign doesn't mean it cant be revisited. After all thats whats happening right now to the porn. porn of games and media have been around for years now, even longer than lets plays, and they are going after it. If its successful then companies can shift focus if they feel like it. And just because people argue the value of let plays doesn't mean they won't.

[@RothAnim]

Last I heard, Blizzard was only going after people who directly ripped Overwatch assets and animated them in Source Filmmaker, and not people who were drawing their own erotic takes on the characters.

[@In-The-Zone]

Jonathan Roth that doesn't matter. even if its using the assets its still a new product using them. While lets plays just use the game literally as is. Thats why it can become an issue. If you can go after the porn just because the assets are the same, even though its a different product, you can go after someone who uses the very same product with any changes ie. lets plays

[@RothAnim]

1) You do not own the assets of a game you buy. You own the physical media it resides on. If I buy a CD, I can't use a song from that CD in a movie. If I buy a book, I can't use sentences from that book in my own novel. Those are separate agreements for which I need permission. 2) Of course the company can go after people who uses the same product: i.e. pirates.

[@purplsheep6271]

1:56 LOL. The Berthesda guy has a mug reading "let the modders fix it".

[@rezaabedini8174]

the person who created this video is extremely talented!

[@neonlemurs4865]

Copy mechanics should be stealing if it's just ripped straight from an innovative idea, or if you add nothing to it.

[@themanwiththeplan1401]

no

[@Bobsican]

I´m looking at some lame Super Mario Maker levels for this.

[@Turnip0739]

I'm surprised you didn't speak about the blatant copyright abuse on the youtube side of things, or Nostalgia Critic's WTFU (Where's the Fair Use)

[@liampaiva5267]

I just noticed that you pronounced "version" like "virgin" and I'm so glad. I thought I was alone.

[@MrJMB122]

I had a friend that got a cease-and-desist letter because their game was called pre civilization Egypt. didn't have the lawyers to fight it so they changed it to predynastic

[@dexis9412]

Speaking of copyright, the ad on this video for me was of a bootleg, clearly illegal, iOS Pokemon game

[@laugexd]

Dexis yeah how did that even get accepted because i checked the game on the app store (didnt diwnload it) and none of the screenshots showed pokemon the game logo was of a mushroom enemy so i dont even think its about pokemon

[@Solrex_the_Sun_King]

Laklexify it's just clickbait. I saw the same game, but they caught a Pokemon gruesomely, but if what you say is true, it's all faked.

[@sanctamachina]

I don't find that addressing the issue of blatant rip-offs is a good thing for the industry. We are, after all, talking about mechanics as opposed to patents. If a foreign company in market where their labor costs are smaller is able to produce a phone with the exact hardware found in an iPhone or Samsung Galaxy then give it a recolor & rebrand to sell it at a lower price this is considered good in the real world. I own the 1+1 a Chinese manufactured phone that compares to the Samsung Note 4 a $400 phone yet it only costs me $200. This is good competition for consumers. Candy Crush or any other game does not have nor should have sole exclusivity to any mechanical functions. If a person creates a extremely similar game while rebranding it then that should be fair game for the consumer to decide whether they prefer the original or the copy which, while often not better, could be better for the consumer.

[@Messilegend1000]

Yes, ot will make pressure and competition whenever a new idea comes in, but there should be safeguards otherwise new ideas will be scarce. We need a common middle ground. Thats what we always need.

[@juanmoreno6591]

The problem is, it doesn't quite work the same with digital products as with phisical ones, if some small company somewhere can actually recreate the capacities of a high end phone with cheaper materials and work force, then it's fair game to sell them, they still need to get the materials and build what it's for all purposes a new product, even with knockoff movies and music they still need to get the actors, record it, etc. with games it's different, sinse all it takes is to get the code and then simply copying it and that's it, just slap in a filter that changes the colors, change the name and boom, new game, and suddenly there are six hundred "different" candy themed matching puzzle games in the store burning out the consumer base, and that's just with free to play, with retail releases there's the added issue of lost revenue, imagine an indie company that has spent the last three years and all they money to create a new game as their one hope to success, then the day after they release it some dude just cracks the code and release the same game with a different coat of paint for a third of the price, or even for free, that can be even more devastating than piracy sinse it doesn't even allows to persuit legal actions to try and mitigate the damage

[@Elonyx.studios]

his point still stands though, it's a lot easier to recreate games than other media or merchandise, and that's the issue at hand

[@sanctamachina]

People who think that making a knock off game is easy have never made a game. Even when you're copying an established design, it is a lot of work with many man hours and definitely custom assets even if those assets are designed to be similar to the assets used in the original version. The only time it is not is if you're literally used something stolen, which is in itself not as easy as it sounds, but then it is actually illegal rather than simply a knock off.

[@christophergrovender3593]

No, in fact that's terrible. The entire point of the copyright law for patents in the US is to incentivize creativity; If I make the first drill, and somebody steals the idea, why the hell would I invent the first saw when I know damn well I'll get nothing for my work. Same goes for games, people innovate for the rewards. Edit: That's not to say competition is bad, in fact it's very good. By releasing these copyright laws later it forces companies to innovate again to get the previous high returns from before. Ex) The drug industry. When Viagra became an over the counter drug, the company immediately moved to start producing another drug near instantly that they'd been producing to replace the Viagra revenues that would vaporize once the low cost alternatives appear.

[@micahcease4617]

Oh, I was expecting this to be more about emulators and KZbin, but it was still a good episode.

[@holaCarolina]

Hey! I really like your channel. I recently found you in a video about the OP of an anime. I hope you do more videos with Mother's Basement channel. Thanks!

[@Xapper0]

Didn't Bandai Namco patent minigames during loading screens or something?

[@InvaderLockwood]

How many Extra Credits or Extra Play videos have been ContentID claimed? How much of your revenue has been stolen in the name of "protecting copyright?"

[@OtakuNoShitpost]

I think that says more about the method of enforcement than anything else, especially considering that it generally isn't even the copyright holder that is filing the ContentID claim.

[@ComplexEvil]

This works differently then the youtube content id system. They are barely even comparable.

[@Sandact6]

I don't think they'll be able to give an exact number, as usually the first words a lawyer has about this is "The less you talk about it people outside of me, the better."

[@Hexsyn]

This is actually what I'm in the middle of, on this very work day, for a pharmacy education game that I've spent the past several months designing, testing, and refining. Legal stuff is hard...

[@KaminaCicada]

Thanks. this has actually helped me understand why companies were calling bullshit claims.

[@Z4XV0]

The "&" in the "Valve C&D" art is actually a 3. Half Life 3 confirmed.

[@theoldfinalchapters8319]

*insert obligatory comment about modder mug here*

[@david4jsus]

As someone who doesn't understand much about these things, this was very insightful! What would be good sources for reading more about definitions and things about this? (I will check the sources mentioned in the description)

[@Hazomest]

The cup the developer was holding, was pure gold

[@TheQuadler1]

the team fortress clip should have shown overwatch, :)

[@TheRealOtakuEdits]

haha

[@kyokyoniizukyo7171]

BUUUURN! ^_^

[@theinfinitydie1582]

I mean, not really... One is a clear knock-off, the other has a story, universe, and gameplay that is far different. :I EDIT: Just cause it has classes to provide asymmetrical, online play doesn't mean it's ripping off a franchise. One could easily make the same statement between Gears of War and Mass Effect just from the third-person view, gun-play, and running mechanic. :I

[@iiiiitsmagreta1240]

Plus Overwatch is better. I really hope I didn't just start some stupid flame war.

[@TheRealOtakuEdits]

Mattias Westby We've got you're back but damn dude now we'll have to fend them off because of you. *READY THE DEFENSE*

[@yaujj65]

You make trademark make sense right now, I can understand the game theory on KZbin

[@vasco407]

the dragon illustration xD so funny 5:16

[@drmaniac5763]

I'm just gonna put this out there, I would love extra credits done with dan's real voice

[@VioletxVelvet]

That mug at 1:50 tho. So true.

[@DatMageDoe]

"Just let the modders fix it" SHOTS FIRED!

[@williamleggett742]

I love how he mentioned the whole Edge debacle. I read about that a few years ago and it's hilarious.

[@lupin6741]

I'm actually surprised that you didn't make a video about modders being sued by major companies.

[@fabske_1234]

1:50 I love this cup :D

[@theSHELFables]

I love how there is a specific patent for Katamari Damacy ball rolling gameplay. It's adorable.

[@danielparejo1800]

To make an analogy, patenting a game mechanic would be like a movie studio to patent a camera planes, like "travelling panoramic view".

[@penitent2401]

1:50 the coffee mug speaks the truth.

[@lewisbilly12353]

An episode over fair use in games would be awesome!

[@FeamT]

Excellent subject, glad you could cover it like this! (And not that dull at all, considering the absurd things that constantly happen in the video-game-lawyers world... Not the Phoenix Wright kind) Might be worth looking back into it as things develop, as I'm sure the industry will continue to try and find ways to both steal from one another, and also stop getting stolen from by blatantly violating the rights of other people.

[@NummiAFI]

"Just let the modders fix it"-mug made my day. So good.

[@YX33A]

Gotta admit, I am genuinely happy to now have even a surface level understanding of those insane trademark lawsuits now. (insert a image of a rainbow following a 5 pointed yellow object with the text of your choosing, such as 'u wot m8?')

[@GeekyGami]

I don't know who the editor is, but they get a plus in my book

[@GeekyGami]

Wait, wasn't there somebody else taking care of the editing before?

[@lordvoltain9231]

"The people decide what succeeds and what falls" I openly share my ideas and concepts with a few classmates and friends who are going into the industry as well (some of whom hope to work with me on a project if all goes well), confident that if they tried to use them, and I also used them, that I would use them better.

[@emmagay123]

Subtle roast on Bethesda at 1:55

[@santiagogs15]

pauses at 3:08, images of Panin's Dbz, Why are you so Epic extra credits???!!, best youtube show ever.