The CRAZY War Over EV Charging Prices Is Getting INTENSE In 2024

[@gadget231]

It's about time that EV chargers had properly displayed pricing information on large, clear signs as you would see on a petrol station. If charging companies were made to show prices on signage such as this then it might actually encourage a bit more competition as people would be less likely to use the more expensive ones if they can see that someone else in the same car park is cheaper. I also think it would be nice (at least for now) to have a proper queuing system where you can reserve your slot at a charger by entering your registration number directly on the charger or on the app. The charger could tell you how many people were Infront of you in the queue and could even text you when the person currently charging disconnects and it's your turn. If you don't connect within 5 minutes then you lose your slot and everyone else moves up the queue. Would save having to sit in one car waiting and trying to figure out who's turn it is next.

[@MichaelOddell]

Shame that so many charging areas have no rain cover over head.

[@chrissmith2114]

High voltage Electricity and rain are perfect for each other...

[@djtaylorutube]

​@@chrissmith2114no issue

[@bikes_camera_more]

Currently in France. So far, on motorway services every charging facility has had a canopy over the charging bay.

[@grahamleiper1538]

Not like you're stood holding the charger.

[@paulward8087]

I've heard that a typical car roof is usually waterproof ... If yours is not, consider buying one like the one on the top of my Tesla.

[@RichardBacon-h5x]

I drive all over the country in my MG, and now, with the most recently opened Tesla sites, I almost exclusively charge on open Tesla x

[@davidhammond9816]

I have just used a 20Kw charge Scotland @ 31p. Come on England, catch up…

[@robertovers1863]

what a load of nonsense CDIF, AB4R2, C3PO, just put a price on the bloody things ! not long now before we are forced into this madness ! hopefully i will die from the cold this winter and i will be free

[@redbudgieuk]

Used both Gretna, Caledonia Park and Todhills last week. Doing a return trip to Derby so took out Tesla membership. Roughly 1000 miles over the week, return trip from Aberdeen. Specifically planned the trip using the Tesla network. More than paid for itself over the week. Cost around £120 for the full trip so very happy.

[@GrahamWathey]

The cheapest chargers in Scarborough is 49p per kwh at a 7kw kerbside. This will not get people out of ICE!

[@Lewis_Standing]

There's my mum's zaphome in West ayton for 7p

[@GrahamWathey]

​@@Lewis_Standingopen to who?

[@truebrit3670]

Increasing taxes, limited availability and exclusion zones will get people out of ICE. The carrot has been and gone.

[@salan3]

@@GrahamWathey If it's on Zaphome, all (by appointment prob).

[@MsDmcclymont]

History is repeating itself nicely as it often does Motorway service fuel used to have multiple products on one for court for example BP and shell These days it seems to be only viable to have the fuel station owned by These chargepoint networks will go in the same way as home broadband, mobile phones and other such tech, expect massive consolidation between these companies over time until we are left with Tesla and one or two more nationwide Of course, some niche providers will still work in a county or one region In my personal opinion, mass adoption needs a simple solid solution without multiple apps, multiple methods, multiple devices. It just sounds like a pain at the moment

[@lagmonster7789]

Can't help but be shocked by these prices, here in Denmark rapid charging(>100kW) is pretty much 3.49DKK/£0.39 per kWh across the board except for one single outlier company. This is for simple contactless payment, no apps/memberships required. Slower & cheaper options available too in many places.

[@suthie1953]

It's what is known as "Rip Off Britain" my friend. It's all the British people have ever known. The Brits love to see Companies ripping them off.

[@chrissmith2114]

That is a subsidised price..

[@_Dougaldog]

In Scotland many of the Chargeplace Scotland chargers were free to use until fairly recently. With UK government bankrupting country unfortunately there are charges now, typically £0.47/kWh, but a number are cheaper, and one or two might still be free.

[@lagmonster7789]

@@chrissmith2114 There's a small installation cost mitigation pool(~65M DKK/£7.36M) nationwide, but only if it's a publicly accessible charger and available to all. Hence Tesla would not get any subsidy for a charger they have set as 'Tesla only', like in the video. Main subsidy is the electricity used for charging an EV is exempt from tariffs worth ~0.95DKK/£0.1 per kWh and is refunded automatically if you have an appropriate smart metering wallbox/charger, which of course includes the aforementioned pubic chargers too.

[@rogerphelps9939]

Yes. That is how it should be but we are in ripoff Britain.

[@talkingcrimestories]

Best thing i ever did was built my own carport with 12 solar panels on free driving for ever

[@awestrope74]

If you export your solar @ 15p/kwh and charge your car using octopus intelligent go at 7p/kwh would that not be a better return on your solar investment?

[@idmbadvisoryltd3205]

​@awestrope74 that's what I do with my home solar and an ev tariff overnight

[@Smith_Tech_70]

As an EV driver, I don't get this subscription nonsense. Just give us a competitive price for goodness' sake. I only use public charging a couple of times a year, so it's not worth the subscription to me, but it means I always have to pay a premium. Petrol pumps don't off a "members" and "non-members" price. It's the same for everyone, and competitively priced for that region, usually.

[@davetakesiton]

No, Nick you do not pay a premium, you pay the normal price, while those who choose to be members get a discount.

[@Stiggy767]

It’s that your Tesla parked in the AppleGreen bay not charging? 😂

[@Lewis_Standing]

Two of the applegreens were broken when I visited in November 23

[@chrishar110]

Last November I made a long (for my BMW i3- 120-150 miles range) journey from Wigan to Aberdeen. The only open to everyone Tesla chargers I found on the way were at Larkhall, Eurocentral, Dundee. I had to charge at other chargers paying much more than Tesla charges. One year later I know I can do the same journey much faster and much cheaper.

[@martyndyer4444]

Also 12 more Ionity chargers 2.5 miles south of Todhills at Starbucks just off Junction 44 M6. So much choice we are indeed spoilt.

[@peteappleby3881]

last weekend when I was at Gretna I couldn't get on a charger owing to ICE cars parked on the chargers

[@chrisivens3413]

Just had an email saying zap-pay is putting up its pre-authorisation costs. Premium £1, Registered £30 and non-registered £60. I can't see a good argument for £60. Who is filling up that much? I struggle to need to put £30 in.

[@Travel_Day_Dreams]

Gretna services gets very busy during the holiday periods, was there any indication that additional parking space had been opened up elsewhere on site to address the loss of spaces in the areas where the new chargers are located?

[@spacecadetrik21]

I just used Caledonia Park chargers on my way down to York and back again. Great site with plenty of choice for coffee and food while waiting.

[@adrianupnorth]

It's a busy services. I have always used ionity as the old gridserves are normally busy. Such a great improvement.

[@rayjones9231]

Hi Dave, Tesla membership is £8.99 a month, or £90.00 a year

[@damiendye6623]

You don't have to pay that to get access to discounted Tesla prices on open to all ones.

[@rayjones9231]

@@damiendye6623 if you want to pay the same as Tesla owners you need the membership

[@madkojak]

Yeah it was £10.99 6 months or one year ago I think but now the subscription is £8.99

[@ts6070]

You don’t pay this fees if your a Tesla owner

[@rayjones9231]

@@ts6070obviously

[@salibaba]

Chademo isn’t dead yet. The touted adapter which has turned up is WAAY too expensive for anyone to justify buying yet with a LEAF. Gridserve recently installed new Chademo equipped HPCs at their sites nearby at Annandale Water and Todhills.

[@linuxretrogamer]

Here in east anglia I’ve never had an issue with Chademo. Done a few trips further afield (Cardiff, Blackpool, Libcoln) and always been able to find a suitable charger. New installs round here seem to support Chademo, though CCS2 is obviously king.

[@edenviews]

Thanks for coming up this way to show us all. I was along to Gretna 2 weeks ago and didn't know these were all finished, or that the Tesla were open to all. They're a bit close for me to make it worthwhile trying them, as I can charge at home in the garage. Ionity/Starbucks at junction 44 was quite a hub, but Todhills , also new and the Outlet , just opened after I saw them working on it a few weeks ago. Great news Dave.

[@flaw3dgenius222]

I dont agree with need to accept 79p... once you accept that 79p it will soon go up to 99p and then quickly to 119p. I will never give these chancers charging that much my money.

[@PH61a]

Here in the Netherlands Tesla Supercharger prices have increased dramatically a few days ago (probably on the 7th). From cheapest (off peak hours) €0,21 now to €0,30 and highest (peak hours) up to €0,36.

[@waltermcphee3787]

Dave you missed the free 7kw destination chargers in Gretna car park.

[@palm1231]

in France IECharge offers until the end of year 25 cts / kwh for 160 or 320 kW it will then be 30 cts

[@linuxretrogamer]

No home charging here. 63p is the best locally which I use for my weekly top up. Going further afield, long trips, I accept whatever I can I find.

[@yabonney]

0.79 kWh pence £63 for my EQC only 170-220 miles range is ridiculous. I should have stayed with diesel £80 for 450-500 miles range. Typical GB robbing us compared to Scandinavian countries

[@pipstein612]

Yep public charging costs are really not helping take up, a quick calc based on your figures indicates that to be equivalent to diesel the price would have to be 34P/kWh.

[@davetakesiton]

If you ever, ever pay 79p for charging you are robbing yourself and ruining what should be a great experience. Anyone can easily get below 50p with no effort at all and many can get down to 30p. And of course at home you can now get 5p.

[@davetakesiton]

You are reading the figures totally wrong or doing the wrong sums. Supermarket diesel today at average £1.45 per litre = £6.52 per gallon(4.55 litres per gallon). At 50mpg that is 13p per mile. Your wrong figure of 34p per kWh at an average 4 miles per kWh is 8.5p per mile. How are these two equal? Please do your sums again to confirm.

[@yabonney]

​​​​​​​​​@@davetakesitonI'm not working out my sums wrong and I know that it works out around 85-100 miles per gallon when you do the sums but my EQC in theory holds 2 gallon but I live in the real world and I don't care theoretically it relates to 80 + per gallon when 2 gallon is it's maximum, I still get 170+ per charge and that is rubbish when I drove to Heathrow and I have to charge to the maximum 100% and the fast charge 150kw was at the time charges me 0. 79p kwh plus £5 connecting charge as I said cost me £63 to get back home. You need to get in the real world yes when I drive locally I can charge at home for 7p but if I driving a long round trip then charging prices are high compared to Scandinavian countries as I've visited and used EV vehicles and it's half the price for 100plus KW chargers. We are been robbed but you wouldn't know that you've been robbed would you because you don't travel to other countries and compare prices to the UK charges😊

[@yabonney]

​​​@@davetakesiton what speed? Because any fast charger over 100kwh , you definitely can't get it for 50p. I have the mercedes app that shows fast chargers low chargers plus I have the the Zap app trust me I don't see any charger under 100 kWh for 50p or under not the journeys that I've encountered to see where the nearest chargers are on my route not the other side of the country 😅😮

[@MyImperfectEcoJourney]

Called here about 2pm a few Saturdays ago. I am afraid I was not a good experience. Tried 3 of the apple green units and all not working and others said they had issues too. Gave up and went further south to ionity a few miles away and got plunge pricing. Won’t be going back to Gretna, too busy and unreliable.

[@UKDagnar]

I called there twice in a week during a trip to Scotland in July, Tesla owner so the usual pleasant experience however I did see a lot of non Tesla owners having problems getting a charge from those Applegreens. One guy in a BMW iX tried 3 different units and was clearly getting very frustrated with it all, it's a shame as if these people are on their first EV they're getting a very negative experience of EV ownership.

[@flaw3dgenius222]

Tesla is open to all at Gretna is it not? It's a no brainer just going straight to them.

[@MyImperfectEcoJourney]

@@UKDagnar completely agree. I will avoid this services if I am up there now. The whole area was badly congested and difficult to manoeuvre as so many cars reversing etc - ionity at Starbucks down the road was much better designed a dream to use and only just off the motorway too. Oh and was cheaper!

[@_Dougaldog]

@@flaw3dgenius222 There are two Tesla sites at Gretna, different locations one is open to all, the other isn't ( yet :-) ).

[@flaw3dgenius222]

@@_Dougaldog Ahh thanks i was sure i read they were both open to all now, Il need to make sure i goto the right one.

[@marvinsamuels1237]

We made good use of Tesla SCs on a recent road trip from Chester to York, Harrogate, Edinburgh, and back in a Polestar 2. During a stop on the A1M at Adderstone for lunch the car had charged up to 80% just as our food was brought out to us requiring me to run out and move it so I wasn’t hogging it unnecessarily. I paid £8.99 for the month and from the 2 charges we were able to do using SCs we saved some money.

[@campbellcopeland]

I’m doing Glasgow to Newcastle later this month. Planning on taking a month subscription to Tesla and use Todhills heading south and Caledonian Park heading north. Got an MG5 LR with software update to allow Tesla operability. Did this, and IONITY subscription, during summer holidays as IONITY Carlisle & Blackburn both really good hubs too. Also used Flint Mountain which is poor for facilities.

[@salibaba]

Depending on the range of your EV and bladder range, Scotch corner got upgraded a while back with loads of new gridserve HPCs. Either that or Fastned at Barnard castle is pretty convenient.

[@dannyjones296]

I've also got an MG5 LR, did you have to pay for your update? I've got a service due in a few days I wondered if I could get it just by asking. Thanks

[@prjackson7802]

There is also a open to all Tesla charger at Larkhall Radstone hotel. (16 chargers). 2 minutes off the M74 & 20 miles south of Glasgow. Cheapest is 32p/kWh for members here

[@lesliecooper3404]

I never understand why Tesla does not put up a sign saying open to all evs

[@damiendye6623]

Because that will upset Tesla owners

[@thejammod]

We don't want non-Tesla owners to know. :)

[@junehanzawa5165]

Because if you're too stupid not to check a simple app a quarter century into the 21st century, maybe you should stick with ICE. Those people should have come over to this century by now. And if happens to be older adults, most people are more than happy to teach them how to tell. It's a great pleasure to show them new things, and the smile in their faces is priceless. It's the stupid ones that can't be helped. You can't fix stupid.

[@MrBrianshenderson]

On a Sunday evening I have found all the chargers to be full on a couple of occasions at Gretna Gateway services. At Caledonia Park today just after 4pm all the Tesla chargers were full

[@grahamleiper1538]

The good thing is that with Tesla's overstay fees cars aren't abandoned on full charge and you won't have to wait long.

[@FredHughes-x6w]

Hi Dave, very informative video as always, just returned from a short break to Orkney, public charging is 38p!! and plenty chargers around, keep up the good work

[@paulbuckingham15]

Lots of wind to power them.

[@rogerphelps9939]

Plenty of wind up there.

[@martincharnley6143]

People who drive Leafs are not “oddballs” they’re just not wealthy enough to buy other electric cars.

[@_Dougaldog]

Some others have dropped significantly in price over past week or two.

[@capnkirk5528]

If you're not wealthy enough to drive a "real" electric car, do you even matter? Should you be allowed to vote, or consume oxygen? Just asking on behalf of Elon and his tech bro pals ...

[@David-bl1bt]

​@@capnkirk5528ALL lives matter....drive what you CAN afford and enjoy it.

[@capnkirk5528]

@@David-bl1bt Oh I agree ALL LIVES MATTER, although I would not use that as a movement catchphrase. I'm just ... "suggesting" ... that for people like Elon Musk, Jeff Bezos, Donald Trump, etc. some of US don't matter all that much. Or to put it another way, as our "disposable income" goes down WE become "disposable". YMMV.

[@linuxretrogamer]

I’d sooner drive my Leaf than an iPad on wheels (Tesla).

[@steveearley8352]

AppleGreen chargers. I was there on Friday … 3 of the chargers weren’t working… such a shame. One taped over, which is fair, one had no working lcd screen, and the last one wouldn’t accept payment. Much eye rolling from my wife as it was our first drive 😊

[@Jaw0lf]

Tesla are definitely the leaders and charging far more appropriately. People need to stop using the expensive chargers. Great update thanks Dave!

[@David-bl1bt]

Yes, why pay double the price....The more that use Tesla chargers, the silly'er the other operators will look charging exorbitant prices...they will soon realise that they will have to drop their prices to compete.

[@GrahamWathey]

@Jaw0lf I'd love to use a Tesla charger, but the nearest is over an hour away. Once you're away from the motorways and cities your stuffed.

[@Jaw0lf]

@@GrahamWathey I am lucky enough to have home charging so generally will never use any chargers within 2 hours of home due to the much higher cost. However on trips, first long one being this weekend since getting my Tesla 4 months ago, I had to use them. Including home charging to refill car at end of the trip it has cost me £55 to do 691 miles. So still cheaper than my Audi Q5 I owned before moving to an EV over 3 years ago. If you are reliant on Rapid chargers the big point is looking at different providers as they will be very different on price. Also in this case a membership can save a lot as well.

[@colingoode3702]

Home charging (if you can do it) is the only way owning & running an EV makes sense. We got a used 64kWh Kona Electric 18 months ago & haven't used a public charger yet. 7p/kWh overnight cheap rate vs 70p+ public charger prices are a no brainer.

[@Grumpydadwithtech]

These are for when you are on longer trips and have no choice

[@colingoode3702]

@@Grumpydadwithtech 👍Agreed, but for longer trips I have another choice, which is use my ICE estate car which swallows more luggage & passengers than the EV can & has a longer range than the EV. Horses for courses. EV around town & for journeys up to 250 miles, ICE for longer trips & holidays. ICE car probably cost as much, or more, to fuel than using public EV charging but it's the better tool for the job for a longer family trip.

[@davidwilson4468]

@@colingoode3702 ICE cars cost a lot less per mile than using public charging. Where I live all public chargers cost at least 79p which equates to 20 to 26 pence per mile. An average petrol car costs between 14 and 18 pence per mile. If you cannot charge at home then EVs don't make economical sense.

[@_Dougaldog]

@@davidwilson4468 I don't charge at home, my fast charging is done at Tesla at 34p/kWh, or just under 8p/mile, my slower 7kW (potentially 11kW) charging is done at ChargePlace Scotland public charger @ 25p/kWh or just under 6p/mile. Still much cheaper than petrol or diesel. Occasionally I get a free charge at public charger (there are some still) which is a bonus.

[@Grumpydadwithtech]

@@colingoode3702 space is one issue and thats the choice of car you make, but the power suppliers need to realise that people will vote with feet to the cheapest for energy. If you need fuel for an ice at services then you only have one choice at that station, where as evs could have a price war, but realistically 55p should be tops

[@DrAbdulWahidMohammad]

Can you pop the Google maps link to each location in the description?

[@onlineo2263]

Last time I was here (easter 2023) there was a queue of 3 cars waiting for Ionity. 1 car on the Applegreens and half of the Tesla chargers in use. We have a Tesla so popped on those.

[@ISuperTed]

11:01 - not sure Grin and Bear It is much of an indication of a charging price war Dave!

[@rp9674]

It's a scientific term

[@MichaelWaite-w8c]

Thanks Dave, we are going up Scotland shortly via Gretna. We will now take advantage of the Tesla V4 chargers at the Retail Park.

[@salibaba]

If you want somewhere less crowded to stop, then Hamilton closer to Glasgow has a FastNed hub. Saves getting into Glasgow and using CPS or ionity

[@bobeagle2380]

All those chargers and not any pull through bays for those of us that tow, especially as when towing we need to charge twice as often.

[@grahamleiper1538]

Ionity are generally pull through. Even with a Tesla, if I was towing I'd be tempted to use Ionity just for that.

[@kevinmatthews2620]

tebay m6 southbound now got a advertising hoarding in the field before the services,ultra rapid charging 64p per kw :)

[@Brian-om2hh]

There are now 9 rapid chargers at Tebay.....and two 7kw chargers in Shap village at Junction 39.....

[@jasonrhl]

With the disabled access we had a guy who parked his car and he needed to leave space for wheel chair to get to the cables. He then tried to plug in but the car was too far away. We had to get him to movecloser and he could not fit to get to the cables past those posts. At the one we were helping the charger was on a step up like those tesla chargers so he could not go around. At least these ones look like he may have been able to go around the pole to grab the cable but then struggle to pay. Its all well and good having width to your park and maybe these he could have parked on an angle.

[@DavidPlayfair]

Very disappointing that there are so few Chademo connectors! I know it's an old standard but there are still many Nissan Leafs still around. In fact Nissan have only just recently stopped selling them in this country.

[@salan3]

Are there not Chademo to CCS2 adaptors now?

[@stiggy2k9]

Yeah it's pretty stupid. Obviously Chademo is old tech now, and they're thinking long term. But in practice Chademo chargers are still in large demand out on the roads today and that isn't going to change for many years yet.

[@solentbum]

The biggest problem I have had is the number of drivers who insist on using a bay with dual charging when there are plenty of ccs bays free, thus blocking the only ChaDeMo charge point. May I make a gentle plea that drivers think of others who need ChaDeMo.

[@solentbum]

@@salan3 At present they are too expensive to be cost effective for most drivers who can charge at home.

[@paulbuckingham15]

​@@solentbumhow much are they?

[@prjackson7802]

Great video. I am a 500e Fiat driver with a yearly Tesla sub @ £90/year

[@rp9674]

USA - seems like all the emphasis is on expensive DC fast charging, I can't see the Hardware getting cheaper. I'd like to see more L2 240v charging, especially high amperage 48a or more, where appropriate. L2 is more reliable & cheaper.

[@grahamleiper1538]

In UK closest to your 48A is 22kW 3 phase. (We actually see up to 43kW AC but that's getting more rare) 22kW are relatively common (I have a dozen or so closer than my nearest DC rapid) but not usually found on motorways as they're more destination or overnight chargers rather than journey chargers. More common in residential areas, park&ride locations or railway stations.

[@rp9674]

The only L2 I've seen here is 240 V ac, 32 amp/ 16 amp shared, adequate for many situations, but I think we're missing a trick by not having higher current L2, most people probably aren't even aware as possible

[@rp9674]

We probably should have switched everything to 240 volt instead of 240 / 120 long ago, probably will never happen

[@grahamleiper1538]

@@rp9674 you have a 3 phase transmission backbone. That's why apartment buildings are 208V. The 22kW chargers here are 3 x 230/240V phases so nominally around 400V. Limitation is the onboard charger in the car. Most max out around 11kW. Most home charging here is single phase and 7kW.

[@stephenbagwell8275]

The Tesla app is currently saying 48p off peak at Caledonia Park & Todhills for non-members Trentham Gardens is showing at the same price but I was only charged at 40p on a Sunday 2 weeks ago

[@davetakesiton]

Yes, Stephen, makes it difficult for me, because prices as I state at the beginning of the video can change by a few pence. That's why I normally show video of the screen or a mobile phone screenshot of the price when I film. At Todhills it was 42p for non-Teslas on the day I was there.

[@johnnysolar9813]

I'm doing Land's End to John o Groats at the moment and just paid £8.99 for the membership as I'm only using Tesla Superchargers for charging my Genesis GV60. Just completed my first charge at Redruth @ 40p kWh and peaked at 97kW

[@davetakesiton]

hey Johnny best of luck please keep me informed

[@jamesvdv0]

I have never been able to get an Applegreen charger to work with my BMW i3 REx. If they are the only ones available, I now just rejoin the motorway and run on petrol instead.

[@michaelgoode9555]

Tesla appears to have open chargers at Caledonia Park which is not actually at Gretna Services though close by.

[@chrishar110]

There are Tesla chargers at Gretna too, open only to Teslas

[@GR34456]

Charge Scotland is 55p kW in my are ranging from 22 to 50kw . Different prices depend on the area. I am glad u covered Gretna as I will be doing a travelling from North East of Scotland to Manchester, and the car says stop at Gretna for 20 mins charge. Nice to see plenty of options

[@peterlucy1519]

51p if you have electroverse from Octopus

[@rajgopee1245]

wish this price war would come South!

[@davetakesiton]

on its way, definitely but I heard everyone was rich down south

[@rajgopee1245]

@@davetakesitonhaha nah they keep a fair share of peasants down here too

[@philipscott5395]

Just a quick question regarding Tesla chargers. Is there any way of finding out which type of Tesla chargers are fitted at the open to all non tesla cars

[@davetakesiton]

Not that I know of but I’ll look

[@salan3]

I have not had my EV long (about one month). Up to now I have managed to just charge at home. Done many (for me) longer trips. Ok not over 100 miles each way but generally I don't. Still got a bit of 'range anxiety' but it's going. I suspect that I might need to use other chargers perhaps three or four times a year. One of the recent trips would of cost me around £40 in Diesel with the previous car.

[@delboy512]

It's a day out, with all the charging networks making gross amounts of money. If Tesla can offer more realistic prices, then the others can as well. I have owned a couple of EV's now since 2015 and can't believe how much the charging rate has increased, it's a disgrace.

[@ThePrimateKing]

Tesla have been able to operate and build their network at a loss as part of their early EV offering. It's a huge advantage that won't be able to be repeated by anyone. They also have a scale of use that most the other networks don't experience. All of these factors lower costs. Good news is thought that we are getting to a place where there is a lot of the really expensive bits of infrastructure in place, so over the next few years we should see some bankruptcy and consolidation of the charging networks reduction of costs as non-tesla EV adoption grows.

[@grahamleiper1538]

​@@ThePrimateKingthe other networks might get more use if they dropped their prices instead of installing expensive unused statues.

[@andrewrobinson9497]

hi Dave bp pulse & shell charging stalls are they solar powered

[@davetakesiton]

None that I've seen but they probably sign up to renewable electric that is green, hypocrites!

[@Thetyrerepairer]

Were the couple with the Honda charging at a Tesla charger? I am getting one in a coupe of weeks, But I’ve heard they can be problematic when using the Tesla chargers.

[@davetakesiton]

They were charging perfectly well I checked the speed and it was a pretty good rate. They were happy

[@williamleach4018]

Good to know about the chargers at the retail park now.will use on our trips from lanarkshire to alton towers

[@foxylady1048]

I know not to pop into Gretna green with my leaf when passing by this service area then. Thanks for the heads up Dave.

[@davetakesiton]

There’s one Chademo on the Gridserve right next to the service entrance

[@stubear1874]

Chargers are good but the speed bumps are too high for M3 and lots of scraping!!

[@ts6070]

Why does your M3 need charging?!? 😂

[@rodden1953]

Hi Dave i have the Tesla App for my powerwalls so it knows im in the UK but every time i try to add my none Tesla it thinks im in the US even thought i clicked on UK it wont accept my address, do you know what im doing wrong ?

[@davidmason7380]

I had the same problem I deleted the app and had to do a new registration watch when you register that it's UK not USA that's where I went wrong

[@rodden1953]

@@davidmason7380 Someone suggested to add another App . i hate the thought of losing all my data for the last 4 yrs. the company that installed the Powerwall set up the App for me . not sure what to do . But thanks for your reply .

[@donmartin8336]

Forgive me correcting you Dave but we’ve just taken the Tesla membership as we’re going on a road trip and it’s £8.99/month. Thanks for the brilliant videos, keep up the good work my friend. Don

[@InBodWeTrust]

Tesla map shows 16x open-to-all Tesla superchargers at Caledonia Park, not 14x. I used the ones at Todhills rest stop on Saturday 31-Aug. 🙂

[@CEUOTC]

Great content and information Dave, l will be doing my first 'long' trip (Elgin area to Lincoln area) in my MG5 (recent purchase 2nd hand). Unfortunately it looks like my 'new' car still needs to receive the Tesla software fix, tried the Tesla chargers in Inverness and got the dreaded 'this car is not authorised' (Facelift MG5). As such will be using other public chargers and will definitely be using ABRP.

[@feersum3433]

Shame to see that Tesla chargers remain disability unfriendly, kerbs, narrow bays etc

[@MarkHewitt1978]

Interesting you say eg Why would drivers choose the expensive chargers rather than the cheaper Tesla right next to it. Visibility is the thing; you shouldn't have to look up on an app or park up and peer into a tiny screen just to see the price. There needs to be a large matrix display the likes of you see at petrol stations to make it clear. The only one I've seen like that so far is Jet Charge (Jet being the petrol station operator).

[@davetakesiton]

Like supermarkets hang a large sign saying all humans welcome to shop here?

[@MarkHewitt1978]

@@davetakesiton What a stupid reply

[@johnnysolar9813]

Dave. According to my map, Gretna Green is open to all

[@davetakesiton]

There are three superchargers in Greene Green, Johnny, two are open to all one is exclusive and the open to all are the cheapest in Gretna!

[@koonyanglee1819]

Hi Dave, been following your videos for quite some time. They are always formative. Got myself an EV recently (Honda eny1). On multiple Honda forums, there seems to suggest issues charging the eny1 on Tesla SC (I have tried it myself but the amount of negativity on these forums is enough to put many eny1 owners off). I see in this video that there was an eny1 there charging. Did you happen to know if they charge up alright and the car did not throw all sorts of error messages after charging?

[@davetakesiton]

They were happy and the session completed without problem

[@capnkirk5528]

Wow. The price of electricity at UK chargers is ...INSANE? Is the BASE price that high (and if so, why?) or are the big tech companies just gouging early adopters at the behest of big oil and legacy auto? Or is the British government JUST THAT INCOMPETENT? I can get an overnight residential base electricity rate in Ontario that is about TWO pence per kwh, so that's probably what the "wholesale" rate is.

[@mbak7801]

Wholesale electricity prices change frequently. It is not unusual to be down to £0.06 per KWh and occasionally actually negative. Public charging is a huge rip off and is a brake on people even considering buying an EV.

[@salibaba]

We’re now way past early adopters, it’s bridging the chasm to mainstream

[@grahamleiper1538]

7p/kWh overnight home charging is common in UK. Wholesale prices are based on "most expensive generation" so quite often natural gas. Whole system essentially broken. Some of the most expensive electricity in Europe. Prices are still essentially double what they were pre Ukraine invasion.

[@slartybartfarst9737]

If it wasn't for Tesla at 42p per kWh BP would be over £1.....Ive had 10 years of free Supercharging on my wind up Tesla so not to bothered but great review Dave.

[@jonathanbrown8682]

Do the Tesla v4 work on MGZS mk 1 ?

[@davetakesiton]

Using contactless every car should work, it’s usually the app that gives the trouble, stick to the V4s

[@clockwise104]

They need too vacs so you can clean your car while you charge

[@malcolmsutton6740]

Gretna Teslas are open to all.

[@rmurton130456]

Hi Dave, great vids 👍 I have a question, I am getting an ev (Citroen Belingo) on order. If I take out a Tesla membership can I change on all the Tesla charger network?

[@davetakesiton]

No, only about half are open to all. Check the app or the website they are all clearly identified

[@rogerphelps9939]

A complete ripoff for most people who use a level 3 charger once in a blue moon.

[@markrozee]

175 KW must be fast enough for anyone🤔

[@davetakesiton]

Not to those who paid for an EV that can charge at 360kW

[@kalex381]

UK EV customers taken for a ride....Cannot believe charging on superchargers can be up to 10 times more expensive than home charging...

[@_Dougaldog]

Which is why the vast majority choose not to pay ten times more. The Overchargers will have to drop their prices to compete.

[@johniooi3954]

How fast is your home charging? Yep not as fast, nor is it a charger, that is in the car for A/C. So a DC charger is nothing like you home charging. So you are not comparing like for like. Neither is the cost of the equipment anywhere near the same. So just looking at the wholesale cost of electric is not the whole picture...

[@kalex381]

@@johniooi3954 well you just validated my point..1000% markup because its bit faster…good luck to those who accept this nonsense.

[@Brian-om2hh]

Buying petrol or diesel is also considerably more costly than home charging, so it's a question of taking your pick I guess. As Dave points out in the video, for the number of times Mr Average might use public charging, it pales into insignificance if you charge at home most of the time....

[@kalex381]

@@Brian-om2hh buying petrol includes fuel duty and vat which is not the case with electricity at least in the UK. Once tax breaks for EVs go away and you start including duties and vat on electricity prices be at home or on superchargers, then we can compare again. i would not be surprised if supercharging ends up costing double the price of using petrol. Unless you leave in a detached or semi detached house with driveway , you have to use superchargers..

[@Smith_Tech_70]

I charge my i4 at a Tesla charger whenever I can, on a trip. Cheap and reliable.

[@kellyeye7224]

"Ideal world"???? Multiple makes/manufacturers, multiple versions (DC/AC etc), multiple fees, multiple payments etc and that's before the horrendous thought of queuing for 30+ minutes or standing in the rain connecting 900V to a car when WET!.......and what about load sharing? Are all those chargers capable of delivering full power at the same time or will they be limited based on the numbers connected to the overall system? Are users meant to 'take a chance' or run software to determine which is going to be the fastest, cheapest or most efficient? THIS is what puts people off EV's. Well, it has certainly added to the list of reasons I won't be buying one! ONE type of charger, a UNIVERSAL connection, ONE payment method and enough devices so that queuing is no more than 5 minutes might make people think again but the more you complicate (and limit/compress) the system the less likely people want to use it. I chose petrol or diesel, fill up, pay and go. 5 minutes. The fact that I've typed 'reams' just to illustrate the nonsense people put up with is a perfect example of 'complication for the sake of it'. Jeez.......

[@davetakesiton]

I seem to think you have already put yourself off with listening to all the Media hype and negative reports from the oil giants. You have two fuels, petrol and diesel and almost a million people a year put in the wrong fuel and call out the fuel doctor or breakdown services. Two fuels, how can anyone get that wrong? We use one electricity so we can't wrong fuel our EVs. Plus we can choose just like you, the price we pay. You only have 2 prices, motorway services and everywhere else. We have hundreds from totally free to extortionate. Please list all the petrol stations that offer free petrol or diesel. I hear the sound of silence.

[@kellyeye7224]

@@davetakesiton Your in-built bias is showing. When did I say EV's were 'bad'? When did I refer to the oil giants? Since YOU brought them up I'll respond. Your claims of 'wrong fuel' are valid but misrepresented in context due to the VAST numbers of vehicles that refuel every year - orders of magnitude more than EVs. Whilst as an ICE driver I might pick and chose fuel costs they seldom vary more than a few pence across the country but by your own admission your issues cross an 'infinite' price range (zero to whatever) and I doubt an EV driver is prepared to move to the next recharging point to get a different price??? It's not the VEHICLE that puts me off EVs - it's the infrastructure and the inconvenience. This is the same for many, many potential EV drivers and is something you, in your 'support' for EV use, cannot deny. No ICE car I've ever owned has been 'inconvenient' for me - any time, any place. The very thought of HAVING to use multiple apps, chose from multiple charging options, multiple costs, multiple inconveniences (not to mention HAVING to stop for extended periods - we don't all WANT to park up for up to an hour) needs addressing. The ONE station you illustrate (I've stopped there many times for fuel) is actually a good example of how it should be done (except it's till uncovered for some strange reason) but is not typical - and judging by the lack of support for EV sales, the lack of investment and the lack of NUMBERS is testament to the ongoing decline.

[@mikegipson1224]

Gretna Green Services I have used the 4 x Ionity 350kW up near the BP Forecourt and great speed on my Ioniq 5 of 242kW for a good amount of time :) And I'm sorry but the 180kW of the Apple Green really is not good enough...

[@davetakesiton]

Not for you, but total overkill for the Dacia Spring drivers

[@bikes_camera_more]

UK charging needs to get its act together! While I appreciate Tesla may be cheaper it is not always (rarely) available to non-Tesla owners, Gridserve are, until the end of the month through the app, only 63p per kwh, it is still more than I am currently paying. I am in France, and the most expensive I have encountered on motorway services is €.60 kwh, but more typically only €.50 kwh (51p/42p respectively). Another benefit of Brexit? I don't thing that has any relevance at all. UK charges are just excessive!!!

[@chapmandu2]

Nice round-up Dave. The downside of a less efficient but higher charging speed car is that there are many reasons why you might not get the full charging speed you'd expect, whereas in a more efficient, lower charging speed car (eg Tesla Model 3 SR+) you will always have that higher efficiency which means you don't really *need* very fast charging speeds, 150kW is fine.

[@davetakesiton]

Teslas do have some of shortest times spent at charger than any other brand. As you say there’s more to time spent charging than the pure power number printed on the charger. From personal experience meeting and talking to dozens of people charging while I’m filming, I believe one of the biggest factors is charging to 100%. So many people are on their way home, maybe a hundred miles away, needing to charge to get there, where they have 7p off peak rates, and they are charging to 100% at 79p. This to me is insanity

[@ComeChargeWithUs-e8x]

@@davetakesiton That is completely bonkers - paying more for convenience is one thing, paying more AND inconveniencing yourself is madness

[@kev2020-z9s]

If people are going to adopt EV, Tesla charger should be available to all EV owners you don't get this with petrol station?

[@djtaylorutube]

They are except where the site owner operates their own chargers. Simple really, do keep up! 😅

[@marktyers69]

I own an Audi e-tron GT and the only fast chargers I use are the Tesla ones but still see people opting to use the more expensive alternatives at the same site. I don’t think word has got around about access to the Supercharger network.

[@JSMITH6298]

I think you’ll find the Tesla charging prices have increased significantly since the prices quoted in this video. A price increase of over 17% at some Tesla chargers around the UK. This is very disappointing and not exactly encouraging for would be EV owners. Imagine if petrol prices increased by over 17% in a day. There would be national outrage! Tesla superchargers do remain relatively good value however and still a lot cheaper than many competitors.

[@nettlesoup]

Tesla Supercharger prices go up and down depending on industry wholesale rates. At least Tesla tend to be quick to bring prices back down when possible. Gretna Green 250 kW 16 stall is still at 37 p/kWh (47 p/kWh peak times) for Tesla owners and members. So still far cheaper than most other rapid providers.

[@clivethomas6864]

It would be nice is if all the on street 7kW chargers were set so that you could use a card say an Electroverse card and you could use the local domestic tarif which would go onto your domestic electricity bill. It could even use the cheap overnight tariff. This would stimulate the uptake of EV’s for people who cannot charge at home on the drive. These chargers could be located on all residential streets.

[@drplokta]

And who would be paying to purchase, install and maintain all those chargers? If you’re paying your domestic electricity rate, that will only be paying the cost of the electricity, not the cost of the charger.

[@mbak7801]

@@drplokta The government has been offering subsidies for years but local councils are yet again a total joke and would not take the free money. The chargers will need to come from local government with a simple one in each lamp post. Transport needs a rethink and fast. The civil service is not fit for purpose so do not hold your breath.

[@drplokta]

@@mbak7801 You can’t just put a charger in a lamppost, because most lampposts don’t have cables that can take 7kW. We’d need to rewire every street in the country.

[@grahamleiper1538]

Chargeplace Scotland work (for the main part) with the Electroverse card. You're still paying the local set price, not the home tariff, but if you're with Octopus it's going onto your electricity bill.

[@grahamleiper1538]

Gretna fairly gone from a supercharger desert to an oasis. More superchargers now than the whole Northern half of Scotland. Scotland still has less restrictive marriage as 16 year olds can get married with no restrictions. Believe in England you can get married at 16 only with parental permission. Caledonia Park hit my momentary peak charging rate. Saw 260kW for a nanosecond.

[@davetakesiton]

That is an impressive figure, what EV is that?

[@chargingabout]

As a local Its amazing how the area has changed in the last month. With a new grid connection all these new chargers have gone in. Gretna services is normally packed as it serves both north and southbound. It will be interesting if the chargers get busy now. There is also a 12 bay ionity at carlisle one junction down

[@kevinmatthews2620]

the abb are made in italy ,says so on the label you zoomed in on :)

[@martinwray7001]

So if I marry a Gretna Green charger, is it mine to use exclusively?

[@waynekerrr9027]

It probably won't work 😂😂😂😂

[@martinwray7001]

@@waynekerrr9027 yeah, I'd give it 6 months

[@stewartmolloy5782]

Morning Dave, Great info, thanks again, but is that your Tesla in Applegreen bay, not charging tut tut

[@RandomNoob]

I used the applegreen at Gretna last year about a week after they opened on a trip to Scotland. They threw up an error but it still charged, must have been early teething troubles though because lots were having the same issue, I had someone come and ask how I got it to charge as they couldn't. I went with them and tried with their card, same error as I got but it just wouldn't charge, tried a different bay and that was the same, they just drove off to go elsewhere. While I was charging I saw a few try and fail all driving off so I must have just been lucky.

[@salibaba]

There’s another bunch up the road at Abington, equally as unreliable and expensive. The only upshot there is that some are Chademo/ccs dual headed

[@keithdenton8386]

My god you change your tune more than the Labour party. We should boycott the expensive chargers in one video. Just pay it cos it a day out in another.

[@davetakesiton]

Both are completely complementary not mutually exclusive. Expensive chargers should be boycotted and preferably banned. And if you are charging out on the road and the only possible choice is one that is much dearer, just pay up and shut up. Because, if you fail to stop at cheaper prices and charge when you can, going sailing past them, but instead drive on anyway until your battery is almost empty and the only choice left then is really expensive? That to me would be the same as driving an ICE car past all the supermarkets at really cheap, prices and getting onto the motorway and driving until you nearly run out and then have to fill up at the motorway services at 30-50p per litre extra. Nobody has to do that and nobody has to pay 79p. If you choose to??? Crazy!!!!!

[@thelifeofbatteries2603]

that Honda is one of the worst EV's available with a max charge rate of 78kw

[@chrishar110]

BMW i3 says: ''Hold my beer, I can do max 50''

[@mbak7801]

Charge rate is less important than efficiency. The Kia SUV gets about 1.8 miles/KWh. The battery has to be so huge that it will be a charging stall queen even with a fast charge rate.

[@davec1768]

Dave, why can't they all be a standard price just like petrol and diesel.

[@davetakesiton]

Not sure what country you live in. Petrol at the motorway services is not the same price as at my local Tesco which is different to the local Asda

[@davec1768]

@@davetakesiton I know that, and they are more expensive than supermarkets, but they don't vary by 30p per litre per motorway service station. Until we start getting a standard price system similar to petrol prices, people will be put off switching to EV because they don't know how much it will be to change from one station to the next. And considering electricity has a government price cap, why does the government allow them to sell it at a higher price.

[@michaelgoode9555]

The price cap only applies to domestic supply. Business customers are not price capped.

[@solentbum]

@@davec1768 Its only in recent years that petrol prices have become 'standardised', mainly thanks to lack of choice due to Supermarket monopoly. It is of course early days yet in the electric charger roll out, with differing companies with differing structures. The 'price cap' in Electricity applies to domestic sales only, commerce pays a market price, often by time of day pricing.

[@davec1768]

@@michaelgoode9555 They are selling it for domestic purposes or are they not???

[@Grumpydadwithtech]

Used electroverse card at 2 progo in looe, cornwall. No advertised prices on the machines, took 2 weeks for thr payment to be processed and double payments were taken out of my bank. Ridiculous, 4 days after contacting support and no answer yet

[@MsDmcclymont]

Go direct to your bank and cash will be returned the next day, disputed payment ... Then the firm suddenly gets in touch hahaha

[@3002534]

Tesla subscriptions currently £7.99 and they ‘hold’ £20.00, which the change seems to be returned immediately.

[@johnnysolar9813]

£8.99

[@paddervey7765]

and the moral of the story is that if you need your car for daily use then stay as far away from ev as you can, what an uneven load of overpricing and misunderstanding world the charging system and cost of ev is, as things are ev cars have very little use to busy car driving. unless of course you work and live within range of your own charger, but that will not last as the governments, smart meters, and power costs will get you soon as will the new proposed tax rates, the only way you will get takeup of ev on a large scale will be if you give the overpriced rip offs away.

[@davetakesiton]

I love your logic, you criticise EVs for getting 5% VAT and yet you pay 59p fuel duty and 20% VAT on every litre of petrol or diesel. Guess which I prefer. PS if you have solar panels and home battery charging your EV is free and cannot be taxed.

[@paddervey7765]

@@davetakesitongood look on your trade in, why dont you fill us all in on your depreciation.

[@bitmanev4331]

May be time to rename the channel "Tesla Dave Takes It On"...

[@davetakesiton]

No, I'm quite happy with this one and many of the subscribers and Patreon members are also happy. Thanks for your suggestion. If you think I should stop mentioning Tesla then maybe the channel should be called closed?